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1

Jimmy Le Pie,

01/11/2008 23:55:29
Are we holding a referendum on Thursday??

Sounds like David Murray has been standing too near one of thone big drums!!
2

Jimmy Le Pie,

01/11/2008 23:57:55
From the Mail

"Gordon Brown's boast that Britain is well placed to weather the recession was dealt a serious blow last night.
A report by the influential Institute for Fiscal Studies claimed Government finances are in a far worse state than the Prime Minister admits.
It said the budget deficit is more than four times as high as under the Tories in the early 1990s."

Flogs off all the gold reserves at a knockdown price, raids the pension funds, blows billions on illegal wars, hides billions of debt under PFI/PPP to name but a few.

Prudence my €rse!!!
3

Jimmy Le Pie,

02/11/2008 00:10:22
I wonder if David Murray knows why the pound has collapsed against all the world's currencies??

Comrade Broon says we're well placed to borrow our way out of the smelly stuff??

Is he insane??


VOTE SNP X
4

Conan the Librarian™,

02/11/2008 00:14:14
Hmm. A Rangers chairman who believes in the union.

Now that "is" news.

Well done Tom, for tracking that down.
5

subrosa,

02/11/2008 00:14:48
'I am not political, but I strongly believe in the continuance of the Union.'

This isn't the first time Murray has been involved in politics and I doubt if it will be the last. He's not a man to do anything for nothing so I wonder what the payoff is...
6

Jimmy Le Pie,

02/11/2008 00:17:26
I hope all the Unionist who criticised Alex Salmond for seeking Middle East finance will spout the same bile towards Comrade Broon??

Bet they don't though!!

Spineless wonders every one
7

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/11/2008 00:24:19
Subrosa.

Don't you know. Sir David Murray is peerless!!!

Wasn't he being touted as Scottish Tory Chairman?
8

Jimmy Le Pie,

02/11/2008 00:26:43
Has there been any developments in the criminal investigation into alleged fraud and thieving by an ex Glasgow East MP??

Are there no investigative journalists left in Scotland?
(I'm not asking you Hamish, you're not a journalist!!
9

Conan the Librarian™,

02/11/2008 00:28:45
7
Peerless? Do you think he will get a Lordship for this?

He will be able to kiss the Queens ring in person then.
10

colin, crombie,

dunfermline 02/11/2008 00:31:07
the unionists cant see that even BEFORE the Brown Bust, we have too many unemployed and living on benefits, crippling fuel prices, no international voice and our national assets being stripped and sold off. How LOW can we go with the Union?

As Idi Amin once commented on our problem 'the Scots are not oppressed enough' and former Labour MP now Lord ONeill said 'the biggest problem for Labour in Scotland is how to keep the people poor so they will still vote Labour.

BROON IS BUST
11

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02/11/2008 00:35:48
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12

Bring it Off,

UK 02/11/2008 00:36:47
Do you think the loyal and patriotic BRITISh Mr Murray keeps his fortune in Britian - I woul dhazard a guess that England is not where his fortune is parked no try one of the wee countries like Monaco, Cayman Islands, BVI or Switzerland - loyal to your wealth and when Labour raise the tax to pay for their debt watch Murray Inc head for Irealnd or Bermuda as it's domicile.
13

Bring it Off,

UK 02/11/2008 00:38:18
I heard that there is a lot of jobs going in Manchester these days since the Rangers fans trashed itlast summer alot of joinery, glazing and some metalwork maybe Murray can supply the metal?
14

democrate,

Martin O'Neill's former constituency 02/11/2008 00:41:33
Hi Colin @ 10. O'Neill actually said, and I quote him verbatim,

"It is the purpose of the Labour Party to lower the expectations of the Scottish people."
15

Steve,

Bo'ness 02/11/2008 00:42:25
Why should our businesses suffer after independence? Will England go in a big cream puff and stop talking to us? Trade is global. Borders within the EU are virtually invisible.

And doesn't Gordon Brown realise we're plunging headlong into a recession? Of course he does. So he has a hard neck slagging off Ireland.

16

Rufus T. Firefly,

02/11/2008 00:50:49
Well said Sir David.

Post independence there would be no defence contracts and indeed no army.

Fortunately that day will never come.
17

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02/11/2008 00:53:43
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18

Wardog™,

02/11/2008 00:55:10
".....I AM NOT POLITICAL, but I strongly believe in the continuance of the Union. If we don't back these companies then we might as well go home."

Murray was speaking after meeting with Gordon Brown after the Prime Minister visited one of the entrepreneur's business interests while campaigning in Fife...."





tripe just like his team



19

Steve,

Bo'ness 02/11/2008 00:55:27
Yeah, I mean.. Britain is the only country in Europe with an army. Isn't that right Dufus?
20

Wardog™,

02/11/2008 00:57:09
16 Rufus T. Firefly, 02/11/2008 00:50:49

Well said Sir Rufus T Wombat MBE ARS EDJT

Post independence there would be no involvement with illegal wars

Fortunately that day will come.
21

Conan the Librarian™,

02/11/2008 00:59:54
16
Rufus
Ten percent of the RN will belong to an Independant Scotland.

Where will they be built and serviced?

Remember Rosyth, which was sacrificed on the altar of "Secure English Votes"?

Are you really a member?

Of the SNP that is.
22

Conan the Librarian™,

02/11/2008 01:02:23
20
Good Evening Wardog.


23

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/11/2008 01:02:36
Well that's Rangers added to Manchester United.

Amazing that both clubs take such an interest in Glenrothes. Wonder who's 15 minutes of fame it is?
24

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/11/2008 01:06:19
Perhaps the manager of Ladbrokes and the chairman of William Hill should campaign in Glenrothes for the union as well.
25

democrate,

Brigadoon 02/11/2008 01:07:16
Am not the first to think or say this, won't be the last either,but can SIR (tug the forelock) Murray or one of his buddies tell me what it is about Scots that makes us uniquely placed within the whole world at being incapable of running our own affairs? Are our wee brains just too full of mince and broken biscuits? Does the heather hanging out of our ears obscure wise words? Have we munched so much haggis and drunk so much Buckie/whisky/Tennents that we surrendered the right of self-determination prized applauded welcomed preserved and defended worldwide?
26

We are responsible for ourselves.,

02/11/2008 01:21:47
David Murray the unionist thinking man's Heather Mills McCartney.

27

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02/11/2008 01:26:15
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28

Archie MacT,

Edinburgh 02/11/2008 01:56:24
Let me see. Should I listen to one of Scotland's most successful businessmen or the Nat keyboard warriers on here spouting the usual "SNP legs good, anyone elses legs bad" nonsense on here. tough call.

Lets have the referendum now, if only to shut you lot up.


29

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 02/11/2008 02:07:12
Murrays in a hurry to get some more curry from New Labours Slurry.

So Murray are you saying you will be selling your assets and moving out of Scotland, like that halfwit womens underwear maker was going to do when the SNP was elected. I dont think so.

The other point is, how can London New Labour carry the Catholic Vote and at the same time preach hatred to his customers at Ibrox.

After all isnt it the English who keep hanging rubbish on Scottish Football.

I certainly hope that Catholic, Protestant, Muslims and anyother religious organization realise that in an Independent Scotland being a Scot in charge of your own Nation means NO persecution by the Westminster Government. There are more opportunities for Scottish Business in the world that will make us once more a GREAT NATION on our own achievements. Not the handouts we get from London.

Are you happy that Gordon Brown and his sleazy New Labour Party, can attempt to blackmail the Scottish Nation by continually suggesting we are incapable of success.

STOP LETTING THE RICH AND POWERFULL WHO MADE THEIR MONEY OUT OF YOUR SWEAT, TELL YOU THAT SCOTS ARE USELESS. WE ARE BRILLIANT PEOPLE WHO HAVE SURVIVED 300 YEARS OF BEING TOLD WE ARE TRASH. I SAY NO MORE OF THIS, I SAY BELIEVE IN OURSELVES.

I SAY WE ARE THE PEOPLE.
30

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 02/11/2008 02:14:51
AN INTERESTING QUOTE BY THE CHURC OF SCOTLAND MINISTER FOR GLENROTHES AFTER HE DECLARED HE SUPPORTED THE SNP, AND ALEX SALMOND.

HE WAS ASKED HOW HE COULD SUPPORT THE BREAKUP OF THE UK, BY A JOURNALIST. HIS REPLY WAS THAT HE WASNT VOTING FOR THE UNITED KINGDOM, HE WAS VOTING FOR THE SNP BECAUSE HE BELIEVED ALEX SALMOND AND THE SNP WOULD GIVE HIS CONGREGATION IN GLENROTHES A BETTER LIFE OUTSIDE THE UK. THIS IS THE GUY WHO TOOK OVER THE KIRK THAT BROWNS DAD RAN.

WHAT A SLAP IN THE KISSER TO BROWN AN HIS CABAL OF SLEAZY NEW LABOUR ARE.
31

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02/11/2008 02:28:36
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02/11/2008 02:31:42
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33

PMK,

02/11/2008 02:45:29
Liebour seem to truly believe they can win a by-election with the backing of well-known head-cases from Rangers and Manchester United ... it didn't work in May 2007, why would it work now? If Labour manage to scrape home by on the 6th - it will be due to some local dynamic - not to this pathetic divide and rule 'vote with your club' nonsense.

What next? : 'Don't want a Catholic as a neighbour? Vote Labour!'

As has been pointed out above by others - this is not the referendum ... the unionists are far too scared to allow us all a say on our future remember! So stop try to spin a vote for the best candidate to represent your area in Parliament as some sort of existential choice between Scotland and 'Great Britain'.
34

subrosa,

02/11/2008 03:07:26
# 7

Aye frank, that was doing the rounds a while back. Didn't someone else take it on because Murray said he wasn't interested. Maybe David Cameron's had a wee chat.
35

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02/11/2008 03:23:23
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02/11/2008 03:24:51
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02/11/2008 03:27:51
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38

An Beal Bacht,

02/11/2008 03:31:23
"I am not political, but I strongly believe in the continuance of the Union."

Whaaaaat? Has the world gone insane? Do words have no meaning any more? To contradict yourself within the same sentence and expect no one to notice is overweening hubris.
39

An Beal Bacht,

02/11/2008 03:32:48
They should've ran this story two nights ago - it might have scared the weans.
40

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02/11/2008 04:01:42
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02/11/2008 04:06:28
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Rufus T. Fireball,

Grampian 02/11/2008 04:12:15
Never mind Mr Murray if you dont like an independent thriving new Scotland go and visit your money in Bermuda or Cayman or Geneva.

When Scotland starts to rebuilt the infrastructure we wont use Murray sourced steel we will get it from our "friends" there is excellent Korean, Chinese and Russian steel yo are not the only fish in the pond although you might think so.

I just realised that the time it took me to write this message you have probaly made about 10,000 pounds in interest in Geneva or Cayman and your fund managers were probably short selling HBOS and RBS
43

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02/11/2008 04:21:47
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02/11/2008 04:22:13
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45

Castaway™ ,

02/11/2008 04:46:12
Murray said an independent Scotland would lose out on UK defence deals such as the.....
Does he also mean "the upgrading of Britain's nuclear-armed Trident submarine fleet" ?
This upgrading is a headache for the Westminster Government not only because we have a SNP lead Scottish Government also the majority of Scottish MPs and MSPs voted against the upgrading.
The defence of the UK is not a devolved matter so this upgrading should be no problem for the UK Government or is it ?
46

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02/11/2008 05:19:24
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47

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 02/11/2008 05:26:02
Ah - the old 'no more union, no more defence contracting jobs' chestnut.

Can someone please tell which part of Britain a/the USA, b/ France is in?. Both of these countires are massive defence suppliers to the UK.

This 'no defence jobs' is an often trotted out line and a barefaced lie. Restricting Scottish firms from bidding on rump UK defence deals would a/ be illegal under European law, b/would exclude firms that can provide the most cost effective solution and c/is an extremely crude threat.

It reeks of desperation that it is implied that rump UK would ,through spite, not take the best offer if it came from Scotland. Thankfully our friends in the rest of the UK are not as small minded and bitter as our very own Scottish Unionists. Also the people and Government of an Independent Scotland will not be spiteful towards our friends in the rest of the UK.

It is the central gameplan of the unionist - breed fear and generate the isolation myth.

To suggest that a massive rift charectarised by no trade will occur between Scotland and rump UK is ridiculous on these levels:-

1/ It suggests a change in purchasing behaviour (from individuals, companies and government at all levels), on both sides of the border, a change that mirrors the narrow world view of our unionists - just who is engaging in wild-eyed fantasies here?

1/It would be illegal under European Law

2/ It would be ridiculous for rump UK to snub the energy super power (Oil,gas and reneawables) on it's northern border.

4/ Rump UK which will still have massive defence dependency on Scotland. Shared Border, Nuclear Facilities, Several defence sites.

Complete cobblers from Murray who is hardly a disengaged neutral political commentator.
48

Jock's Away,

Africa 02/11/2008 06:19:21
What a numpty, Is Scotland only to survive if it make weapon for war? As a member of the EU Scottish companies can bid for contract any where in thew EU. As for the American work, in the next decade that will be going to US companies (US Jobs), Isreali or Far East cost advantaged countries.
The Sacred Cow of the British Defence industries is challenges by countries that can match or surpass it in AFFORDABLE war toys. A cheap AK47/RPG's/IED's (example)do the same job as the mutlitude of high tech, high cost gadgets in use in Western Defence forces.
It is past time for Scottish industry to think OUT SIDE the box. Life is more than defence or wars of choice. The skills expertise and experience can be turned to far more contructive production.
49

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02/11/2008 06:41:12
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50

W U Merchant,

Glenrothes 02/11/2008 06:45:58
First Sir Alex, now Sir David. The writing is truly on the wall for the SNP. Labour hold.
51

The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 06:48:43
'Man argues in favour of keeping things the same... Man must be castigated by twits who post on the Scotsman.'

52

The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 06:50:58
'Twits who post on the Scotsman counter Man's argument by saying that come the revolution, it will be OK because things will be the same.'
53

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02/11/2008 07:10:32
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02/11/2008 07:12:29
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55

The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 07:13:08
#53 Sir sm

Sir Sean? At least the Beatles sent the gongs back.
56

Finnzz,

02/11/2008 07:14:21
As Murray is content to allow the poisonous antics of diehard Unionists to parade their bile and hatred at Ibrox every week, he appears to have shot himself in the foot (no pun intended)with his argument that his and other Scottish based firms would suffer from independance.
What you can be sure of is his undying loyalty to Mammon especially the chance of lower corporation tax.

Anyway, never liked his Mints.
57

tommy M,

Scotland 02/11/2008 07:27:23
might have known the usual scaremongering tripe would get trotted out again!
Talking of scary, get Broon off the streets of Glenrothes before he gives our bairns nightmares!He's done his best to ensure a grim enough future for the next generation.
Time for Liebour to say sorry for their lies and thieving and illegal wars and cutting benefits and flogging off all the gold on the cheap and ruining the economy then go away.
58

The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 07:32:41
#57

Murray is a vile unionist toady who should be run out of Our Great Nation. We don't need the likes of him.

Anyone who loses their job can be re-employed by Soutar the Benevolent as a bus driver ferrying us to SNP rallies.

SOAR ALBA
59

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02/11/2008 07:47:36
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02/11/2008 07:48:24
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02/11/2008 07:51:34
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62

The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 07:53:45
#62 sm

Is it yours?

63

Colkitto,

River Clyde 02/11/2008 07:58:36
Is this the same impartial "I'm not political" Murray that took full page ad's in newspapers to tell us to vote NO, NO in the run up to the referendum on devolution ?
Who's next.....Michelle Mone ???
64

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 02/11/2008 08:00:59
We can build super aircraft carriers (with a little help from the French) for what purpose ?
They are sitting ducks and will require a flotilla of surface and submarine vessels to defend them.
They are and will remain a financial liability on the UK economy from design till the day they are scrapped.
At the same time we no longer have the resources to build the ferries we need around Scotland, let alone the ships needed to take goods to and from this country.
An independent Scotland would have no need for these massive carriers (What other countries are going to have them anyway ?) and would still need a small navy to patrol its fishing grounds.
65

The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 08:10:27
#66 Auld Twa

I am sure some company will be looking at building ferries for the Forth route, once the bridge is closed. Maybe the aircraft carrier can be converted for the purpose - might come in handy for the volume of traffic that will have to be ferried.
66

Linda,

Edinburgh 02/11/2008 08:16:39
Murray's views are well known and don't come as a surprise won't change anyone's minds. While in Glasgow East, I tentatively canvassed a Rangers supporters with several Ulster symbols tatooed on his arm. Expecting a refusal it turned out he was an enthusiastic Scottish Nationalist and was going to vote SNP as was all his family.
67

donald,

glasgow 02/11/2008 08:33:08
This could have been a joint Statement from the Loyalist, Royalist, Unionist Labour Board at Parkheid. Why did they not join the "Forces of the Crown" at Ibrox the other day. Britannia Waives the Rules.
68

lulach mac gille coemgain,

02/11/2008 08:40:23
Maybee it’s because some of Murrays business operations are in England -0 he’ll pay of the Scots and move all his operations there - thus being the creator of the unemployment !

That’ll be big o um !
69

lulach mac gille coemgain,

02/11/2008 08:44:54
Caption for the pic

‘Ma mum sent me oot tae tell yoos tae get awa fae oor door cause ye really dinae gie a fags asss aboot Scotland and are only interested in yer sel and yer London image’
70

bob barley,

02/11/2008 08:47:34
Murray states that "Murray said an independent Scotland would lose out on UK defence deals such as the £3bn contract for the UK's biggest aircraft carriers being built at the Rosyth Dockyard."

this would be the same Rosyth that a UK government couldn't award a vital submarine contract to and would rather give the contract to devonport, a yard that didn't have the facilities to carry out the work....Murray and his moonbeams, you couldn't make it up
71

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02/11/2008 08:51:08
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02/11/2008 08:52:21
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 08:53:18
I am reassured by the SNP spokesmen's statement that firms would still be free to compete for contracts after the Golden Dawn.

That, and bung political parties hughs sums of cash in exchange for favourable policies on bus deregulation.
74

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 02/11/2008 09:02:26
WU Merchant:

"First Sir Alex, now Sir David. The writing is truly on the wall for the SNP. Labour hold."

It looks like the multi millionaires of football are firmly against Scottish Independence. Who Cares? They can take their wee ball and pissh off home when it is achieved.
75

TWC,

Ayrshire 02/11/2008 09:05:01
Yes the Rich people all want New Labour to stay, but the SNP are definitely ahead. The Herald has nothing on it's boards about Glenrothes so we must assume the Ba' is up on the Slates for Labour
76

Mikey,

02/11/2008 09:05:47
#69, the USA is not a democracy. Even an American will tell you that!

Or perhaps you can tell us what other 'democratic' country allows their head of state to be appointed by an unelected cabal (the electoral college)?

With the exception of the UK, of course, that depends on one family to provide their heads of syaye!
77

Mikey,

02/11/2008 09:05:59
#69, the USA is not a democracy. Even an American will tell you that!

Or perhaps you can tell us what other 'democratic' country allows their head of state to be appointed by an unelected cabal (the electoral college)?

With the exception of the UK, of course, that depends on one family to provide their heads of state!
78

Thomas1,

// 02/11/2008 09:07:34
He's only worried about the fact that the use of the union jack will have to be assigned to the history books.
79

arc of insolvency,

02/11/2008 09:12:08
Imagine one of Scotland's most successful businessmen talk about the the economy of an independent Scotland. As if he'll know anything right????

He knows a damm sight more than Salmond and the SNP.
80

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 09:22:50
What tin legs forgets to mention is the jobs that will be created in an independent Scotland.
81

Thomas1,

// 02/11/2008 09:23:02
SCARE SCARE SCARE SCARE SCARE-that's all it is.
82

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 09:25:13
Just got back from a week in NYC and many people there are watching what will happen in Glenrothes.

Also went to see "The Black Watch" at St Ann's Warehouse in Brooklyn. What a reception from the American public !
83

Thomas1,

// 02/11/2008 09:25:35
85 connaughtboy
Is there any real evidence that jobs will be lost.
84

The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 09:26:14
#85 connaughtboy

We will also get free pies, and the weather will improve.
85

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 02/11/2008 09:27:08
The chairman of Ranger Football Club is fully entitled to express his views about the present constitutional debate.

It must be convenient to grab the ear of the media to express your own personal political agenda with
a view to influencing others.

However, the Rangers chairman should remember that he is preaching to the Scottish Electorate, and not a stadium full of moronic football supporters.
86

TWC,

Ayrshire 02/11/2008 09:27:21
The Scare stories again the only thing in Labour's trick book.
I don't sare if you vote SNP but don't vote for New Labour.
VOTE FOR ANYBODY ELSE.
87

The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 09:30:45
#93 Spook

You are a scary Spook.

:-P

The Tin Man
(aged 7 1/4)
88

Thomas1,

// 02/11/2008 09:31:40
An independent Scotland will still have to work very closely with the rest of G.B. on defence matters and this will also include the awarding of contracts.
89

roughrider,

Glasgow 02/11/2008 09:38:21
Unionist muppets like Murray will not stop the march to independence.We have heard Murrsy,s type of anti Scottish bile before.
Murray is just a pathetic unionist scaremongering LEGLESS ****.
90

roughrider,

Glasgow 02/11/2008 09:40:28
I wonder if Murray will be @rseing about Glenrothes trying to get votes for the tories.
91

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02/11/2008 09:41:33
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92

Tayside Hibby,

home at last 02/11/2008 09:42:19
why does this paper only concentrate on unionists and try to undermine the intelligence of the good people of Scotland, not only Scots but also people of all nationalities who are happy here. If SDM does not want a fully free Scotland then he is free to head south, but please take your team and supporters with you. our place would be even better.
93

Grant,

Edinburgh, Scotland 02/11/2008 09:43:34
Yeah, Murray (and others) said the exactly the same thing before the 2007 election - and the SNP emerged ahead of Labour as the largest party.

This is nothing new. "Union supporter supports Union - SHOCK!"

Unionists should really try to get a new cast list if they want to be taken seriously. The views of Murray and Ferguson are about as transparent as those of Connery.

Besides the poll in the Sunday Herald shows the gap between independence and the union is only at 8% - with a majority failing to back the Union. That must be a devastating blow to the Unionist narrative of a few weeks ago where "independence was off the agenda for a generation". Two polls in two weeks, and no evidence of it whatsoever.

If after all the co-ordinated bile and vituperative attacks on independence in recent weeks, that is all the effect it has on independence it is beginning to look like "ra gemme's a bogey".
94

TWC,

Ayrshire 02/11/2008 09:45:18
I think they should run a poll of all the Countries which were part of the British Empire and ask how many of them are sorry they left? and we can offer them the chance to rejoin.
95

Vivas,

Edinburgh 02/11/2008 09:46:07
Just like Broon, Murray believes in spending big, only to get deeper and deeper and deeper into debt ! Google any recent article on Rangers and their debt and you'll get the same financial story...

--------------------------------------------------

Rangers' debt forcing frugal future despite record turnover

By Paul Hirst, Wednesday September 17 2008

Rangers chairman David Murray has warned that the club will have to tighten its belt despite announcing record turnover for the last year.
...
The Glasgow club released their annual financial report yesterday which shows they generated their best-ever revenues of £64.5m for the 12 months up to June 30, 2008.
...
However, the report also shows that net operating expenses increased by 32pc to £56.8m and that the club's net debt now stands at £21.6m, an increase of just over £5m from last year.
...
96

Tayside Hibby,

home at last 02/11/2008 09:48:24
#105
i doubt Australia or Canada would
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02/11/2008 10:08:55
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Tayside Hibby,

dundee 02/11/2008 10:14:13
#111
what are you on about? and no, "defence of the realm" means nothing to me.
99

The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 10:14:43
#112 Quisling Gogs

Theoretically, the bumble-bee is incapable of flight.

Sticky-toffee pudding is nice with ice-cream.
100

The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 10:19:26
#115 The Spook

Sukhoi didn't even manage to put the wings on the right way 'round.
101

Rufus T. Firefly,

02/11/2008 10:24:39
Hey Spook. 1902 was a long time ago eh?
102

The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 10:26:30
#118 The Spook in Leith

Microwave ovens are a spin-off of radar technology.

Houseplants should be watered less during the Winter months.
103

Tayside Hibby,

Dundee 02/11/2008 10:34:15
The fact is this paper should represnt all views of public opinion not just unionist. You know when the SNP are doing well, that's when all the scaremongering stories come out, please let's have facts not fantasies. Scotland can, and will, prosper as an independent nation.
104

The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 10:35:53
NATO has a squadron of MiG-29 fighters in Germany.

Wool may shrink if washed at too high a temperature.
105

Tayside Hibby,

Dundee 02/11/2008 10:39:26
#126
your point is?
i would rather be with russia and EU instead of fighting in unneccessary so-called wars
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02/11/2008 10:40:14
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Tayside Hibby,

Dundee 02/11/2008 10:45:26
Manchester is a smashing city, shame RFC supporters didn't understand the correct meaning of smashing, believe they misunderstood it for trashing
108

Tayside Hibby,

Dundee 02/11/2008 10:50:36
On a serious point it is shocking we can find money to save banks but not protect our armed forces properly and also fund our emergency services, care workers etc
109

Andyh,

02/11/2008 11:16:02
I think the nationalists need some big wig to speak up for them. Sean Connery your country needs you!
110

Tayside Hibby,

Dundee 02/11/2008 11:18:11
#141
that's not really called for, that's stooping as low as St Mirren supporters. he can't help that. He can help is thought process though. we do not all follow follow
111

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 02/11/2008 11:18:45
His remarks were endorsed by the Prime Minister:
No sh!t?

"Murray was speaking after meeting with Gordon Brown after the Prime Minister visited one of the entrepreneur's business interests while campaigning in Fife...." Enough said.

When Murray says he believes in the Union he means the one between his companies and the UK Government.





112

Tayside Hibby,

Dundee 02/11/2008 11:22:07
If SDM cares so much about the union why wont he give me a job with one of his companies? Is it because i went to a certain school in Broomhouse Rd, support hibs and have middle initials RC, just wondered
113

Rodster,

Glasgow 02/11/2008 11:22:25
Mr Murray I speak as a "bluenose" myself, you are a hypocrit and unwise to enter this debate yet again .
while our club is rightly vilified for its more right wing BNP type of supporters , threatened by UEFA for bigotry , warned by the UK government on the famine song .
I wrote to you suggesting that perhaps if Rangers as Scottish champions , holding the world record on national championships perhaps wrapped itself in the saltire instead of the union flag we could rid ourselves of the more unpleasant types that frequent our team.
You of course sent me the curt letter saying all things were being considered etc. etc.
Then the next Saturday we have Last night of the Proms at Ibrox with the pre match music.

Meanwhile the other mob of unionists at Castle doom wrapped in their Tricolour but every bit as much unionists like you get off Scot free .( no pun intended)
You neither do Rangers or Scotland any favours with your intervention here , just as your ex Vice chairman
who headed the no vote campaign did the club no favours.
Brown & co will c~ap on you from a great height as soon as it suits them you silly man
stick to commenting on football and steel you are not required here and take tour other fool Ferguson with you .
Both of you bought so cheaply for a couple of London knighthoods.
I am glad I gave up my season ticket last year.
and before you ask I despise the other mob more they love Home Rule for Ireland but not Scotland
indeed "what a parcel of rogues in a nation"
114

Nevsky,

Moscow 02/11/2008 11:23:06
In my experience countries that achieve independence have a massive injection of jobs for at least 10 years; sudden;y every major company would have to have offices in Scotland from Heinz baked beans to Nokia to Coca Cola.

Murray has been predicting the same c**p for years and signed the petition of 'leading' businessmen against devolution.

He was wrong as usual!
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02/11/2008 11:24:38
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Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/11/2008 11:32:55
#154 Bird

Oh, does Bird think he's 'edgy?' Deluded Bird.
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Tayside Hibby,

Dundee 02/11/2008 11:47:18
#160
Aye, running from Scotland
118

Andyh,

02/11/2008 11:53:44
A caption for the picture above:
'Halloween was on Friday mister'
119

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 11:53:46
#88 The only current evidence that jobs will be lost is as a result of the Lloyds TSB takeover of HBOS. An independent Scotland would see an increase in employment due to favourable company taxation. The Unionists try to spin this, but they all know that this is the reality. Hence the silly comments about "free pies". Mindless spin !
120

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 02/11/2008 11:57:02
#111 AM2

You are guilty of making them same assumption that led Britain to build Battleships at the begining of WW2.

You are basing your military planning on the previous conflict.

So who is Britain going to fight with these "SuperCarriers"? The Afghans? The Iranians? or maybe you think the Argies want another go? Or maybe those pesky Germans? Or the Russian Bear?

In case it has escaped your notice but the last two wars the UK is still fighting don't involve Super Carriers. They have involved conventional armies doing a poor job of fighting an enemy that still lives in the 18th century.

Perhaps this money could be better spent on proper kit for the Army, like vehicles that are not vulnerable to IED's.

Or even better, perhaps when Scotland leaves, the rump UK will finally confront its mediocrity and realize that it is no longer a Super Power and does not need Super Carriers.
121

Scotish Exile,

02/11/2008 11:57:53
the "mint" can comment, after all he has done such a wonderful job at the mighty glasgow rangers, hasn't he..
Shut your gob Murray, I am one of the ones that knows how your business empire started.........
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 11:59:47
#104 Grant.

Good post and a very good point about independence being off the agenda. The media must think that the Scottish electorate are stupid !
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Weegiewarbler,

Afloat in a boat 02/11/2008 12:04:02
Reading Murray's comments one has to wonder where he made his money, and how?

Mr Murray has some very weird and circituous thinking on this one - thinking which is just not supported by basic economics.

The value enterprises he speaks of are ALL taxpayer based, to get these contracts, taxes must be raised, taxes are a BURDEN - not a benefit (on "defence" anyway).

Let ENGLAND BUILD it's carriers - Scots companies will still bid and win those contracts - if they are better - or is Murray talking up unionist scaremongering again and predicting pre-Darien days of English blockades and trade embargoes? It certainly sounds like it - however this 2007+ not 1707-.

Mr Murray should perhaps also discuss with Brown how his exports are doing now that they cost 30% more, or perhaps what MIM's share of the Trident billions is scheduled to be - thought not.

From a Scottish perspective, any intelligent unindoctrinated human being would quickly realize this union is extraordinarily bad for the country.

From an English political perspective - they need it. After all, as Edward 1 was dramatized - "How can we have international respect of we can't even control the whole of OUR island"
124

Scheme,

02/11/2008 12:09:01
Murray still dreams of Rangers playing in the english premiership - that'll be why he wants Scotland to remain in the union. Yet another Scot who betrays his country for personal gain.
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 12:09:57
#111 sm has a cheek to criticise the SNP's defence policy when the London Government have done so much damage to Scotland's defence industry since coming to power.

The reality under Labour: defence job losses since 1997

RAF Lossiemouth 1000 jobs
RAF Leauchars 160 jobs
RAF Kinloss 180 jobs
HMS 'annet 350 jobs
Rosyth Shipyard 1500 jobs since 1997
Coulport 1500 jobs since 1999

Total job losses since 1997 is 4,700 jobs.

sm753 continues his bitter tirade despite overwhelming evidence to counter his silly claims.
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Tayside Hibby,

Dundee 02/11/2008 12:13:17
#174
and it will never be their island. as long as 100 hundred Scots remain alive today, Arbroath Abbey
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Tayside Hibby,

Dundee 02/11/2008 12:19:44
#178
do you know what you are talking about? thought not. Now explain why many hunreds of scots men and women were sent to Iraq in the first place. At the whim of the US? And where were the WMD? In the Holy Loch
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Nevsky,

Moscow 02/11/2008 12:34:08
178 sm753#

Whats wrong with being a 'neutral' country? Just who is going to attack Scotland?

Maybe you could point out to us all the future military conflics that Scotland could expect to pose a threat to our borders?

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Tris,

02/11/2008 12:35:18

Why has the Sunday Herald joined its sister in stopping comments?

Is this on orders from Mr Brown or Mr Gray?
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Nevsky,

Moscow 02/11/2008 12:36:03
178 sn753#

Maybe we need to be part of the UK to defend against the Afgahn or the Iraq navy? What do you think?
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02/11/2008 12:40:07
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James.com,

02/11/2008 12:52:49
Of course we will all starve when Independent; much better being Gordons dependent Pet.
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02/11/2008 12:53:26
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Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 02/11/2008 12:54:21
Like so many others, the chairman of Glasgow Rangers football club is sadly out of touch with realpolitik?
Does he really believe that Govan yards will be turning out dozens of modern dreadnoughts for the Royal Navy in 25 years time?

The United Kingdom is no longer a significant military, political, or economic power in its own right! British pre-eminence ended in economic exhaustion after the Second World War, political and military ejection from Empire, and final humiliation at Suez!

The UK only struts the world stage by reason of its membership of multi-national NATO, and as a junior partner and satellite state of the world's only true superpower: the United States of America.

According to the defence publication Jane, these delusions are put in perspective when you learn that the US Department of Defense spends more annually on the 180,000 strong US National Guard and Air National Guard (the US equivalent of the UK Territorial Forces) than the annual UK Defence Budget! The woeful inadequacies, or complete lack of proper equipment used by the UK armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan is a matter of public record!

The US Navy now has 10 Nimitz class nuclear powered and armed aircraft carriers which never need return to port! The US navy has more fleets of conventional, and nuclear powered and armed surface vessels, and submarines, than there are oceans to sail!

All these deluded individuals should take a reality check? Like archaeopteryx, the dodo, ostrich feather hats, Indian King Emperors and Royal Naval reviews at Spithead, Great Britain and its Empire is long Gone With The Wind!
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02/11/2008 12:54:57
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 12:57:35
#187 Col. Blimp

The SNP's position on defence is not utterly incoherent, dishonest, despicable or dangerous.

It is more like a Monty Python sketch.

Salmond is a big fat neep.
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02/11/2008 13:00:09
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 13:02:27
Holy Loch nuclear submarine base? Yes please!

Nuclear submarines? No way!

....erm....
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02/11/2008 13:04:08
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,

02/11/2008 13:04:56
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 13:04:59
NATO military bases? Oh yes!

NATO membership? No!

....erm....
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02/11/2008 13:05:31
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 13:05:58
#137 sm said:

"The problem with Russian kit is maintaining it. Things like engine life are much lower than in Western designs"

A statement of such generality to render it meaningless. No source, no evidence, no relevance !
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brownlie,

02/11/2008 13:06:57
178 sm753

"The SNP's policy on defence is utterly incoherent, dishonest,despicable and dangerous."

What could be more incoherent that following the US into an invasion to gain control of another country's resources?

What could be more dishonest than lying to the public to justify this invasion?

What could be more despicable than the murder and maiming of thousands of innocent people?

What could be more dangerous than risking the lives of the UK population by getting involved in a country which, previously, posed no threat to this one?

What is incoherent, dishonest, despicable and dangerous by stating that you want to live in peace with other countries rather than invading them with the consequent tragic consequences.
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02/11/2008 13:07:31
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02/11/2008 13:08:09
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 13:09:08
#202

You are on the SNP side - get with the plan and read the policy.
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02/11/2008 13:10:24
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02/11/2008 13:11:25
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 13:11:52
#206 Aberdeenshire Scot

Yes - and keep the base and all it's employees.

....erm...
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 13:13:08
#151 Draco.

A truly tasteless post !

Be ashamed !
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 13:13:26
#207 sm

Salmond is a big fat neep.
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02/11/2008 13:13:55
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,

02/11/2008 13:14:43
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02/11/2008 13:16:26
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 13:17:26
#213 sm

Pedalo's?
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brownlie,

02/11/2008 13:17:56
209 The Spook in sunnier climes

Greetings, Spook

At the risk of offenders readers who object to me talking to you about football congrats on your achievement in another of your many talents!

Do you think snm753 is a referee in real life? He certainly seems to favour the big teams.
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02/11/2008 13:18:12
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brownlie,

02/11/2008 13:18:55
216

Should probably read "offending" but who cares?
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Rodster,

Glasgow 02/11/2008 13:19:32
From David Murray to aircraft carriers the trolls have ruined yet another thread
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02/11/2008 13:20:40
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02/11/2008 13:22:46
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 13:23:36
#217 Aberdeenshire Scot

You probably know as much about the SNP's defense policy as the SNP.

We would probably end up paying more per head on defence, like the Norwegians. But no decent wars and doomsday missiles to show for it.
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 13:28:26
#227 Spook

David Murray started the aircraft carrier bit in 'the story' (as if anyone actually reads the story).
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02/11/2008 13:28:42
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 13:29:45
#228

Oh no I'm not.

Salmond is a big fat neep!
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 13:30:04
#209 Spook.

"The guy is bonkers beyond repair"

Priceless !!!
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 13:33:09
#231 Aberdeenshire Scot

In the case of Norway and Ireland, their defence money does contribute to such things.

Anyway, the SNP defence policy hardly merits comment.
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 13:36:24
London Labour's defence policy is remarkably similar to that of the USA. So similar as to render it identical. So, my question is, do they actually have a defence (defense?)policy or is it just "me too" again?

Thanks.
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 13:45:11
#236 Spook

The Su-37 'Terminator' would have given King William of Orange complete air-supremacy at the Battle of the Boyne.
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The Tin Man,

02/11/2008 13:47:01
#237 Spook

No! You are!

:-P

Salmond has the jandies.
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snecked,

Argyll 02/11/2008 13:48:10
To provide a little clarity the nuclear base on the Clyde ia basically a large conventional navy base with a nuclear submarine base as part of it.
Those actually involved in the nuclear part of it number in a few hundreds only and the 11,000 figure mentioned is an invention of Jackie Baillie who has a number of problems about size.
The nuclear submarines cannot sail, operate or fire their deadly cargo without US permission and all serious servicing is done by US personnel. They are about as "independent" as my feet are independent of my legs.
The only thing on this blog as distasteful as Mr Murray's views are the unacceptable remarks about his legs. Stop it, guys.
Does Mr Murray not realise, given his position as chairman of Rangers, that his frequent sallies into this debate threatens to introduce a scary sectarian element into a constitutional debate?
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2117,

The Jungle 02/11/2008 13:50:29
There's only one Peter Grant. Mon the pointer
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02/11/2008 14:09:12
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 14:09:25
1 - 0 to Celtic already !
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02/11/2008 14:09:41
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Jimmy Le Pie,

02/11/2008 14:25:44
Nice story in the Scottish edition of the Mail on Sunday.

250,000 tons of contaminated waste from the Olympic building sites in London to be dumped in a landfill near Falkirk.

Another benefit of the Union!

VOTE SNP X
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Jimmy Le Pie,

02/11/2008 14:28:32
If David Murray can't get his knuckle dragging 'fans' to listen to his pleas to behave like civilised human beings, why does he think the electorate will change their voting intentions on his say so???

Please enlighten me!

VOTE SNP X
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Amaury,,

02/11/2008 15:04:39
#253 Jimmy Le Piffle


"250,000 tons of contaminated waste from the Olympic building sites in London to be dumped in a landfill near Falkirk."


As opposed to you dumping your verbal waste on the scotsman 24/7.

Gis a break Jimmy go and throw yerself into the landfill at Falkirk.
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02/11/2008 15:06:26
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02/11/2008 15:09:41
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Westfield Bairns,

falkirk 02/11/2008 15:24:54
Sir David Murray, yes another Scottch Minnion with his Unionist Honour. Apparently not political but he's spoken out everytime against Scotland with the usual scaremongering Nulabour would be proud of. How would Scotland lose jobs in an Independent Scotland with a single market. David Murray now what do we really associate him with, Unionism, Glasgow Rangers, religious bigotry, Scotlands shame, now if that doesn't make you want to VOTE SNP nothing will
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02/11/2008 15:25:29
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Jimmy Le Pie,

02/11/2008 15:28:32
Traquir

The story is the front page headline in the Scottish edition. I buy it instead of the SOS!
I know where the Mail stands on the political spectrum - to the left of New Labour Sleaze!!

I'm in the process of scanning it

Hope it works
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02/11/2008 15:32:00
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brownlie,

02/11/2008 15:32:24
256 Amaury

May I take another wild guess and assume that you do not have any children that would play in the vicinity of the land-fill site in Falkirk. An even wilder guess would be that you do not live in Scotland at all.
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02/11/2008 15:52:16
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02/11/2008 15:52:40
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02/11/2008 15:53:07
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John S,

02/11/2008 15:53:39
#260 Traquir , Alba, Ref "The Mail on Sunday.....London 2012 site in Scotland."
This BBC url works:http://tinyurl.com/62mm63
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02/11/2008 15:56:33
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Jimmy Le Pie,

02/11/2008 15:56:49
Looks like I need another scanner. Mine won't work with Microsoft Vista.

Sorry, but I'm sure this story will run and run.
It should!!

VOTE SNP X
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Jimmy Le Pie,

02/11/2008 15:59:54
I'm sure all the MPs, MSPs and MEPs for the Falkirk area will be up in arms about this story about the waste from London being dumped on them???

Do New Labour Sleaze MPs still have backbones???
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02/11/2008 16:00:04
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Jimmy Le Pie,

02/11/2008 16:03:29
Maybe jobs in a toxic dump are the ones Comrade Bluenose is spouting on about??

What surprises me is they haven't decided on the Moray area, for their toxic dump, just to show the electorate the folly of voting SNP??
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02/11/2008 16:04:28
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02/11/2008 16:12:34
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02/11/2008 16:15:07
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02/11/2008 16:34:57
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02/11/2008 16:48:08
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02/11/2008 16:51:05
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Jimmy Le Pie,

02/11/2008 16:58:29
If New Labour Sleaze were still in power in Holyrood, the toxic sludge from London would have been already getting dumped in Falkirk, "in the national interest".

VOTE SNP X
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Conan the Librarian™,

02/11/2008 17:19:07
303
Hey Spook

Scotland took all of the pain with none of the gain in the eighties.

If there had been a devolved parliament in 79, the destruction of the Scottish infrastructure might not have taken place.

We can never, ever let ourselves be ruled by the Torys again.
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02/11/2008 17:23:47
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02/11/2008 17:29:34
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Robert Mason,

Larkhall 02/11/2008 17:36:11
Well said, Sir David. Salmond? Fat chancer.
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Media 1,

cape town 02/11/2008 17:44:30
Murray would know, he runs a successful business.
Reid would know, he supports the union as well.
Nobody can say Scotland would not cope on her own, of course she would,just not to the extent she does within the partnership.
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We are responsible for ourselves.,

02/11/2008 17:44:42
A mason from Larkhall, there's a surprise.
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02/11/2008 17:47:26
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Finnzz,

02/11/2008 17:50:05
#312

well that post certainly strained your vocabulary.

Shall we try a word with three syllables next.
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02/11/2008 17:51:48
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Finnzz,

02/11/2008 17:52:57
That picture at the top should prompt a caption competition.

I reckon Brown is saying "We seem to have lost the economy sonny, you haven't seen it at the playground have you"
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02/11/2008 18:01:39
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02/11/2008 18:04:04
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The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 02/11/2008 18:17:05
Murray supports the Union! Surprise. Well no.

Does he seriously think Rangers support will wither away on the vine just because Scotland gets independence? Can he not see this as a opportunity rather than a major problem?

I run a company which is based in Scotland and is family owned. I see no impediment to what I'm doing as a result of independence. I may not agree with everything Alex Salmond says or does, but signs are so far that they would be far more fiscally responsible than the bouroch down South, directly responsible for the UK being susceptible to downturn and far less prepared to come back up again when the recession (sorry - downturn) is over. When an oil-rich nation has to go begging from other oil-rich nations what does that tell you about the prudent financial and fiscal dealings of its government's leaders?

Brown has spent and borrowed, spent and borrowed and raided every asset he could lay his hands on. He is never to be trusted again in any position of responsibility in this country and may the voters of Glenrothes hand this judgement down very strongly on Nov 6th.
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ExpatBackinScotland,

Carnoustie 02/11/2008 18:17:14
Rufus Pie in the Sky said

"Well said Sir David.

Post independence there would be no defence contracts and indeed no army.

Fortunately that day will never come."

Correct, there would be no defence contracts, because we wouldnt need the kind of defence the UK does. It has to spend money on defence given its "track record" in recent times.

As for the army, wed have the scottish regiments and they would be peacekeepers only, as opposed to IN PEACES only as it is now in Uraq and AFghanistan.

Sounds good to me. Then we can bid for cruise ship contracts,which dont require the floating neuclear winter on the clyde that is the "cost" of building ships for a nation dispised by the world.

Bring That ON.
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02/11/2008 18:17:36
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ExpatBackinScotland,

02/11/2008 18:18:07
Oops meant pieces not PEACES
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Queen D,

Glasgow 02/11/2008 18:24:58
Connaughtboy , if you find this you can tell me where to bet.
I tried several , two were William HIll in different parts of Glasgow,the manager of one said that they had never taken bets on it.
Totes was another and I cannot remember the others.
None were Ladbrokes because even I know them.
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Queen D,

Glasgow 02/11/2008 18:26:32
Moderators , I have contacted Mr Bowdler about the obscene rejection notice which you send me with monotonous regularity.
Mayhap he will persuade you to change it?
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Iago,

Aberystwyth 02/11/2008 18:34:51
Gosh guys, have some faith in yourself. Do you really think that Scottish people can't look after themselves? Do you believe that England spoon feeds you and an independent Scotland would mean disaster? Have some confidence; you're a talented bunch, just look at the Scots around the world, who are proud to say they're Scottish. If only there was some way you could bring those proud Scots home to help you fight for self-government. You don't need nuclear weapons being built on your land, making you a target when the next big war comes along. You wouldn't spend as much money as Brown, moving your country into a recession as bad as the UK. You wouldn't waste billions on illegal wars and you wouldn't steel the resources of your neighbours. Be proud of who you are, a Celtic nation who has never stopped fighting for its freedom!
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 18:42:00
#331 Queen

Try this link. You can bet online too !

http://tinyurl.com/5f5yah

Paddy Power being a good example:

http://tinyurl.com/5tojtj


http://tinyurl.com/5mwv9q
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 18:46:47
#333 & #334

Your "discussion" became boring a long time ago.

Who gives a t0ss about your petty point-scoring?
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02/11/2008 18:52:23
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 18:52:42
It is plain for all to see that Mr Murray is a self-serving individual who would happily seel his granny for his own personal gain.

Remember the whole Walter Smith debacle. He cares not a jot about Scotland.
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 18:54:26
correction to #340, "sell his granny"
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 18:56:02
#341 sm

I think if you want to discuss the technical aspects of nuclear weapons, it is YOU that should refrain from coming onto a political thread.

Your "contribution" will not be missed !
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 18:57:58
This kind of drivel for example:

"If our ally lets us use one of their designs as a basis for our own, why not? Especially if it gets a bucket of instant sunshine which is lighter, smaller, cheaper and more economic of fissile material than would otherwise have been the case"

Posted by weapons and aircraft expert, sm753.
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,

02/11/2008 19:01:12
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230

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/11/2008 19:25:30
"These are privately owned companies, Scottish funded and family owned. They are surviving and getting business and the reason is that we are an integral part of the Union.

"I am not political, but I strongly believe in the continuance of the Union. If we don't back these companies then we might as well go home." (Murray - as quoted)

Why should not being part of the union be detrimental to these people?

"Murray said an independent Scotland would lose out on UK defence deals such as the £3bn contract for the UK's biggest aircraft carriers being built at the Rosyth Dockyard." (SOS)

Aircraft carriers are assault craft, not defence craft. Some union that likes to assault other countries rather than just defend its own.

Besides, how often have we been told that jobs will be lost if we leave the union only to find the jobs go anyway? And there will be some going soon........?
231

the games a bogey,

alloa 02/11/2008 19:34:09
I thought the contract had been signed, where else can you biuld the ships. Come 2010 the aircraft carriers will be under construction. A get out clause would cost the government millions. Even Mr Murray must have some sense of contract law. Yet another scare story by Liebour. Just back from Glenrothes looking good.
232

Eve,

Scotland 02/11/2008 19:37:41
This is the chairman of Rangers, Can anyone serousley belive much of what he says to be true?

Apparently the Rangers doesn't and has never contrabute to bigoted views.

I don't! I had the plesure of going to school with some Rangers fans and they where the most bigoted people I've every met in my life.

I still to this very day avoid crowed of football suppoters because of the way they these people where.
233

Eve,

Scotland 02/11/2008 19:37:42
This is the chairman of Rangers, Can anyone serousley belive much of what he says to be true?

Apparently the Rangers doesn't and has never contrabute to bigoted views.

I don't! I had the plesure of going to school with some Rangers fans and they where the most bigoted people I've every met in my life.

I still to this very day avoid crowed of football suppoters because of the way they these people where.
234

,

02/11/2008 19:46:35
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,

02/11/2008 19:47:04
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Eve,

Scotland 02/11/2008 19:48:20
Sir David Murray said: "I am not political, but I strongly believe in the continuance of the Union."

These are the words of a hypocrite.
1. Saying your not potlical is a politcal stament.
2. Blieving in the Union is a politcal beilf or opinion.
237

Eve,

Scotland Bonnie Scotland 02/11/2008 19:49:48
opps Sorry about doble post on comment 349 & 350.
238

Eve,

Scotland Bonnie Scotland 02/11/2008 19:49:48
opps Sorry about doble post on comment 349 & 350.
239

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 02/11/2008 20:34:50
I'm not a fan of Mr Murray but on this I am sure he is correct. Stop kidding ourselves on for goodness sake. Sure we can govern our own country but we confident Scots want to be involved in the bigger picture, don't we? Whether you agree with their policies or not the fact that 2 Scots are in charge of the key positions within the UK government is testimony to how succesful we can be if we really try. "Pulling up the drawbridge" as the nationalists want is the most negative approach we can be invited to follow so avoid this rhetoric at all costs.
240

Conan the Librarian™,

02/11/2008 20:39:33
sm753

Bucket of instant sunshine.

Sounds lovely.

http://www.inicom.com/hibakusha/hiroshi.html
241

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 02/11/2008 20:39:45
There's no doubting he supports the Union. He's Chairman of a football club that flies the Union flag before any other, where supporters continue to chant sectarian songs associated with the Union, and there's the small fact that he's been knighted by the Queen.

However, four days before a Westminster by-election, and a short while after meeting Gordon Brown, knowing that Brown's Labour Party's main challenger supports independence, he spouts this tripe.

This is CALCULATING, CYNICAL & VERY POLITICAL.
242

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/11/2008 20:43:09
Just thought of something regarding Aircraft Carriers.

They would be useful for transporting defence aeroplanes to the Falklands.

Wonder what the value of Scotland's share of the UK mineral right claim to Antarctica is? That is one benefit of the union as the English took the Falklands from the Spanish by conquest - when that sort of thing was awfy PC.
243

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/11/2008 20:47:22
#360 Maybe it did, however no-one expected you to start cutting and pasting endless technical information and boring us all to death.
244

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 02/11/2008 20:47:49
357 Liberal

"Pulling up the drawbridge" is a nice soundbite. However, unless we are to become North Korea, a better analogy would be 'discovering a whole new world'.

These and Murray's scare tactics are pathetic. And that's all they are - calculated scare stories. Can't we have a mature conversation about self determination, greater autonomy or the status quo, without reverting to playground politics?
245

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/11/2008 20:49:52
Hmmmm? Funny how a real (tangible) benefit on the union is never mentioned.
246

Conan the Librarian™,

02/11/2008 20:49:53
360
Heh.
Still want them near your family?

Of course you do.
247

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/11/2008 20:52:52
Good evening, Smee.

I see you have been digesting and researching between posts all day (it seems).
248

,

02/11/2008 20:56:50
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Conan the Librarian™,

02/11/2008 21:04:57
368
ppink
I doubt he will survive after the revolution.
250

,

02/11/2008 21:05:11
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/11/2008 21:07:30
Please forgive me, SM7531/2

SM753½
SM753¼
SM753¾
252

Calvinist,

02/11/2008 21:27:56
Scottish companies, including Sir David's, would be free in an independent Scotland to compete for any contracts on the basis of price and quality.

I'm sure the benevolent English Government will put lots and lots of contracts in the way of their ex partners.

Who in their right mind would invest in a country with a totally uncertain future in the present climate? Nationalists seem to be right Polly-Annas these days. No doubt, like Polly-Anna they'll just have to learn their lessons the hard way.
253

,

02/11/2008 21:32:36
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,

02/11/2008 21:35:04
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/11/2008 21:47:05
372, Calvanist. Aye, the future for the UK is certainly uncertain. Who would invest in that lot? Pollyanna Broon and all who sail with him?
256

,

02/11/2008 21:49:44
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257

brownlie,

02/11/2008 22:04:43
377 sm753

Why are they moored at Rosyth? Why not put them beside HMS Belfast or what remains of the Cutty Sark?
258

brownlie,

02/11/2008 22:13:24
379 sm753

I would expect such prime examples of British craftmanship and aggression to be available to a larger section of the public than that available in Rosyth.
259

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/11/2008 22:16:46
Aye, Smee, still doing your research. Have you a degree in minuteness?
260

john z,

edinburgh 02/11/2008 22:34:51
I'm sorry, everyone else is talking about local issues in Glenrothes, but somehow somebody in The Scotsman thinks we're having a referendum on independence.

I must remember to vote.

As for Murray, well it's hardly news that the Rangers man supports the union, is it.

A bit like saying NEWSFLASH : 'the pope is a catholic'
261

Conan the Librarian™,

02/11/2008 22:45:42
377
Er...sm753 they don't have WMDs aboard.

Which is the point.
262

Conan the Librarian™,

02/11/2008 22:54:51
385
Col.
Billion and a half?

Jeez. We are effd.
263

brownlie,

02/11/2008 22:56:17
383 Col. Blimp

Could you be a bit more precise - I'm sure sm753 would demand it?
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Alan Reid,

Warrington 02/11/2008 23:01:12
More crud from this clown, Scotland pours in 55 Billion into the UK, but gets back 30 Billion, Scotland keeps geting the shaft.
Only brain dead Rangers supporting morons would believe this fool.


265

Conan the Librarian™,

02/11/2008 23:15:15
"Why Rosyth? Big mooring space, not currently used for much"

Not since the then tory government decided to move the refurbishment from Rosyth to Portsmouth.

For votes of course.
266

brownlie,

02/11/2008 23:21:08
391 Conan

There's a message for you from Dr Jim Swire on the Lockerbie item.

Have you spent all of the Colonel's BOS notes yet??
267

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 02/11/2008 23:29:13
That's two knights of the invisible British Empire then trying to tell the dim Scots how to vote, "keep being exploited because it suits me personally!"

Who will be the next chancer to crawl out the woodwork?

Yes, the union is so great that two of our most prestigious banks have been humiliated and the great Brown is laughing while HBOS's HQ and jobs go down to London.

Yet according to this muppet and his buddy we should all be grateful to Gordon! No chance.

If workers on the ground are an indication Labour are going to be soundly thrashed, this is all they deserve and no bought and sold Brit will stop it happening.

Kill our banks? Get smashed in elections. Labour are now as tainted as the Tories. If you sell your country you deserve all you get.
268

,

02/11/2008 23:39:57
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Willie Macleod,

Wick 02/11/2008 23:46:40
Conan 391 "Fifes got everything just the place for tourists. See the bonny pit bings standing in a row."

Lyrics from a song by two great fifers John Watt And Davey Stewart. Rosyth dockyard finest

in the country "If you want a submarine just hurl it through the gate."


I hope things are fine with you All th best Willie
270

Tayside Hibby,

Dundee 02/11/2008 23:48:00
#389
unfortunately not only rangers supporters, some down gorgie and leith too.
how come the lotto funds the london olympics and machester games but not glasgow? stick to euro draw myself sooner loose my money on that
271

Conan the Librarian™,

02/11/2008 23:54:59
392
Thanks Brownlie, made me think.

Col. the word on the street for Broon is "STOP" ;-)

Maybe "TURN LEFT", but that's probably to late for him.

396
Good Evening Willie, no had a chat for a wee while.
272

Anguished Scot,

Weegie 03/11/2008 00:13:40
David Murray is entitled to his opinion like anyone else. Scotland's businesses would flourish in an independent Scotland. Maybe even "Glesga Rangers" could do better if our nation got out of the political union with the rest of UK. Scotland is a rich country, with vast oil, gas, coal, water, timber and human reserves.

Do we really want unfair proportional representation potentially affecting the country when David Cameron takes over the reigns from Gordon.

Scotland should take control of its destiny and do the right thing!

Conventional military forces and an administration that doesn't jump head long in to unjust wars are what is needed.

Governance of financial services and sensible tax raising powers that will increase prosperity whilst ensuring the less wealth off in our society do not get ripped off by scandalous council based taxation.

Come on SCOTLAND!!!!
273

Daveunderwater,

Auchter Turra 03/11/2008 00:35:06
Broon sits n Dunfermline toun
Drinking some expensive wine
Oh wha will vote for Labour noo
And save this seat o' mine

£Gae, fetch a ton o' Sir Murray's steel,
And a plater fae the Tyne,
And weld intae oor ship's side,
And let na the sea come in."

But the waves crashed doon
An the ship it cracked
Lik a overdone biled egg
And Gordon's chin quivered again
As the water crept up his leg

To Ladbrokes to Ladbrokes
An place this bet o mine
For the unionist have realised
That finally IT'S TIME!

274

Willie Macleod,

Wick 03/11/2008 00:45:35
398 Conan Good Morning I have had a lot things to deal with in the last couple of weeks. Relationship and family. Not resolved yet but I live in hope of things getting better. Cheers Willie
275

snecked,

03/11/2008 01:20:20
David Murray's father was one of Britain's most successful gamblers. In the 60s he pulled off a coup of over £1million winnings when his horse won the Royal Hunt Cup at Ascot. His son appears to have inherited none of his dash.

His remarks are aimed at the seriously stupid who haven't noticed we are in a European market of over 400 million people. It is illegal to prevent free trading across this union.

Handing out Union jacks to Rangers supporters on match days at Ibrox is a significanr political statement.
Many Rangers supporters resent this.
276

New Town Resident,

03/11/2008 15:18:19
#222. Wrong I think Aberdeenshire Scot.

Defence contracts - e.g. naval (grey) building, are exempt from EU contract law. So in the event of seperation then work in the Clyde will definitely be transferred to Barrow (BAE) and Southampton (Vosper). You may recall the EU fawning Lab/Lib Holyrood administration refused to classify a fishery protection vessel as "grey" so it was lost to Poland. The SNP rightly called for grey classification in this case did they not?
277

JCA REID,

Annan 04/11/2008 11:36:22
The 'Union' which Mr. Murray proudly brags about has constantly & consistently cost Scotland jobs! Just a few weeks back a company making them windfarms upped sticks & moved to the Isle of Wight. & this HBOS fiasco is going to cost Scotland 16-17,000jobs. It's a good deal for Scotland eh?

 

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