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Published Date: 24 July 2008
EXACTLY how does the Scottish Government propose to tackle drunken louts, vandals, noisy neighbours and other "antisocial" types?
It is a question that is forming in the minds of commentators, academics and police officers.

The previous Labour administration's answer was to introduce a mixture of apparently tough new measures, such as Asbos for teenage tearaways and dispersa
l orders for groups of youths hanging about on street corners.

Jack McConnell, the former first minister, threatened to name and shame the worst culprits in a strategy that struck a chord with neighbourhoods terrorised by the few.

The message was strong – but the results were mixed at best. Cathy Jamieson, the then justice minister, pledged to cut numbers of persistent young offenders, only to abandon the target as the total steadily increased.

Meanwhile, some councils belligerently refused to dance to Labour's tune. The high-profile move to allow local authorities to impose Asbos on youngsters aged 12-15 was particularly unpopular among social workers and liberal politicians, who feared a generation of children were being demonised.

Fergus Ewing, the community safety minister, last year announced that the Scottish Government would take a fresh look at the national antisocial behaviour strategy.

The official line was that "nothing has been ruled in or out", but the relative quiet on the subject since then has fuelled chatter that the SNP is reluctant to follow Labour's "tough love" approach, but has little idea what should take its place.

One leading academic said: "The government's only solution to youth crime, so far, appears to be more diversionary activities for unruly kids. That's fine as far as it goes, but it's not enough. People are asking: what else are you going to do?"

A government source insisted that the review is "proceeding well".

The source said it was proving to be extremely exhaustive and suggested that the final plan may not be revealed until early next year.

One year on since the government first started talking about the review, a major summit is about to be held to thrash out the nitty-gritty.

The antisocial behaviour seminar will be staged in Edinburgh next week, when officials will hope to start putting some meat on the bare bones of their review.

Around 100 practitioners and experts from local government, police, voluntary groups and academia will take part in the brain-storming session.

The event, to be jointly hosted by the Convention of Scotland Local Authorities and the Scottish Government, will also be attended by Mr Ewing.

After that, it will be a case of wait and see. But the voices demanding to know the government's plan for tackling antisocial behaviour are unlikely to go away.



The full article contains 458 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 24 July 2008 12:03 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

AM2,

Scotland,UK 24/07/2008 00:13:23
I think they should start by following the example of their Glasgow East candidate John Mason, who despite there being 64 fewer officers than last year employed by the divisions of Strathclyde which serve Glasgow, and 214 fewer officers employed in the force as a whole, claimed that “we’re tackling crime by putting more police on the streets”.
2

AM2,

Scotland,UK 24/07/2008 00:28:44
#2 Alex Armstrong

Well done! Denying reality is another great thing the SNP does really well.

In and around Glasgow:

A Division (Glasgow Central and West) has 12 fewer officers than last year.
B Division (Glasgow North East and East Dunbartonshire) has 29 fewer officers.
G Division (Glasgow South and East Renfrewshire) has 23 fewer officers.

Outside Glasgow:

K Division (Renfrewshire & Inverclyde) has 21 fewer officers.
L Division (Argyle, Bute & West Dunbartonshire) has 20 fewer officers.
N Division (North Lanarkshire) has 36 fewer officers.
Q Division (South Lanarkshire) has 24 fewer officers.
U Division (Ayrshire) has 49 fewer officers.

That’s a total of 64 fewer police officers than twelve months ago in the divisions covering Glasgow and 214 fewer across Strathclyde - as I said.

Source: June 2008 divisional performance updates
http://www.strathclyde.police.uk/index.asp?locID=86&docID=-1
3

,

24/07/2008 00:39:09
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4

,

24/07/2008 00:50:07
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5

John PM,

Edinburgh 24/07/2008 01:28:55
Well let's hope they don't criminalise stigmatise the unemployed like Labour are planning. Their idea to stick the unemployed into chain gangs picking up litter is a complete and utter disgrace. Labour SHOULD be ashamed.
6

subrosa,

24/07/2008 01:39:49
I spent a great deal of this evening having dinner with guests and amongst them was a retired senior police officer from Strathclyde. His opinion of this was riveting. Let me tell you he is a staunch unionist.

His main points were:

It has been known for the last 30 years, when there was a massive intake into Tulliallan, that there would be a massive retirement from 2008 until 2111. No UK party did anything about that and the labour/libdems in the Scottish Parliament ignored it also. Since the SNp government found this out they have recruited a good quality of cadet and are training them as fast as possible.

Unfortunately, there is not enough money in the Scottish government's budget to offer these retiring/retired officers a good enough package to return as ROs so few are doing so.

The whole of the Scottish police service requires a complete overhaul. His reasons are lengthy but understandable and he hopes that the SNP will at least get the chance to make a start.


7

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24/07/2008 02:14:04
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8

Fanling,

Switzerland 24/07/2008 02:14:37
A typical politically-biased, inflammatory headline by The Scotsman. Food and drink to AM2, the arch stats-merchant of these forums, and his Rule Britannia fellow-travellers. Headlines of this kind are put out as provocative bait to non-unionists. Dud journalism.
9

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/07/2008 02:15:02
#9, Subrosa.

Why would you want to suggest that Unionist Parties have done nothing, about the Police Service - oranything else,for that matter, for the last Xyrs.?

Why would you infer that AM2 is spinning faster than a Dervish?

Subrosa, you are despicable ;-))))))))))
10

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 24/07/2008 02:25:42
AM, more anti SNP guff.
The way to tackle this is to adopt the same measures as the Government in Singapore. Ie: whipping for vandalism, etc
A complete zero tolerance approach to anything remotely looking like breaking the law.
I don’t know if the SNP would be ALLOWED to take on this measures, (because Westminster wouldn’t allow it) but fact is crime rate in Singapore is almost nil.

We need to be kicking ass, big time on this.
11

Fifi la Bonbon,

24/07/2008 05:09:51
The scheme in Fife to get retailers not to sell alcohol to under 21s on Fridays and Saturdays was not carried out at the instance of the Scottish Government or any SNP minister, but rather was the initative of a local police inspector.

It is a bit rich for the SNP candidate to claim credit for it. I'm not aware of SNP members of the Licensing Committees taking any action iof this kind anywhere. Perhaps a reporter should investigate what they do, rather than what they say.

AM2 is correct to point out that the numbers of police officers in the divisions he cites has been reduced. He/she cites his/her sources. Why bully him or her for saying this?

What is the SNP planning to do to deal with antisocial behaviour? Good question. Somebody (#13) suggested that it should introduce flogging, and would do if only for the nasty English.

12

Free by '93,

24/07/2008 05:32:57
Action adventure holidays for the worst offenders! That Kenny MacAskill really knows what he's on about.
13

Free by '93,

24/07/2008 05:52:12
14

I couldn't agree more. The one thing that is good about the SNP is that they aren't scared to restrict the freedoms of the many to tackle crime.

For too long, I've heard the hardline take the stance that criminality is the preserve of bad people and that punishment and prevention should be focused in on them. But why bother? It's far easier to treat the innocent as potential criminals.

Pass new laws that take away the rights of offenders to drink? Forget it. Too hard to enforce, better to create a police state whee every citizen is a potential criminal.
14

Rufus T. Firefly,

24/07/2008 06:40:31
Labour has now shortened to 4/11 for Glasgow East.

So it looks like the only way there will be a political earthquake will be if Salmond goes for a jog through Easterhouse.

But that would be an unpardonable folly, wouldn't it?
15

Rufus T. Firefly,

24/07/2008 06:48:47
Great work AM2. Great post once again.

Especially the way you sucked in Alex Armstrong before delivering the knockout blow showing that these were official statistics.
16

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24/07/2008 07:07:32
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17

walter,

24/07/2008 07:19:48
A statement is made, the statement is refuted, official facts are produced to back up the statement, the statement maker is abused.
Day after day after day, it is nothing new.
If you cannot dispute the facts discredit the person, or in the case here abuse them.
18

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 24/07/2008 07:53:47
Instead of being in 'purdah' why has the former Labour MP David Marshall not been supporting the Labour candidate Margaret Curran during the campaign?
19

pwd,

Borders 24/07/2008 08:22:04
* AM2

Well done, you've got them reeling again. Jimmy the Pie (*4 & *19) doesn't know where to turn.
20

Free by '93,

24/07/2008 08:32:44
3 AM2

Here is a statistic for you.

SNP Promised 1,000 more police officers and have DELIVERED 1,112 more to date. So how can you argue with that.

Scotland has been an independent country for 15 years now and we are willing to join the European Union, because the main thing isn't independence its the SNP.

Who needs a military? To reassert our fishing rights in seas that Iceland disputes, forget it, we are wise old haggis heids of the world and everyone loves us.
21

Free by '93,

24/07/2008 08:36:18
By the way Alex Salmond identified the police officers as "Scotland's top priority and so it's my top priority".

How dare you accuse him of spending cash on Islamafest and action adventure holidays for knife-wielding criminals. He didn't do any of that, he delivers what he promises, he is not like the rest of the politicians he is SNP.
22

Free by '93,

24/07/2008 08:37:18
Oh suuuure, you can identify all the statistics you like AM2. You could even go round scotland and count the police officers. But what would that prove?

You are splitting hairs.
23

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 24/07/2008 08:58:04


Sean Hay, who was looking forward to becoming a father for the second time, was knifed repeatedly by a gang of three men who fled the scene, leaving him dying in front of his family. A close friend of Mr Hay, who was also known as Sean Black, told The Scotsman: "You couldn't have got a better guy.

"His girlfriend was due a baby – she was four-and-a-half months pregnant. He's already got a young boy who idolised him. He was a really good father. His girlfriend has two young ones. It's awful."


"Despite a spate of fatal stabbings in London this year, knife crime rates in Scotland remain about three times higher than those of England or Wales. Last year, 40 of the 73 murders in the Strathclyde Police area involved blades."
24

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 24/07/2008 09:00:29
Crime on our Scottish streets would be on the way to being practically solved if we could ONLY put about a couple of hundred AM2'S out on to our streets!
Guaranteed, to solve the problem!
25

Free by '93,

24/07/2008 09:22:27
26

It is sad. The SNP and Labour identify that this knifing may have lasting effects on the CRIMINAL. F**k the victims.

Let's round these violent murders up and give them an action adventure holiday! They are probably just unhappy, so let's cheers these murderers up, all aboard! beep beep bus tour guide Kenny MacAskill.

Who needs police or jail sentences. If we had jailed these kids for minor offences, oh suuuure they may never have been on the streets to commit murder but what the hay?
26

Free by '93,

24/07/2008 09:36:25
29

ASBOS? Don't me laugh. Policing under the SNP/Labour...

"Stop!" "or I'll shout stop again!"

"Don't commit crime!" "Or I'll ask you again, only this time officially in writing."

"Okay, you've gone and done it now, it's an action adventure holiday for you m'lad."
27

Free by '93,

24/07/2008 10:19:01
Hawkeye

Kenny MacAskill is a freedom hating cretin.

If we put every citizen in shackels crime would fall.

So a young soldier can die without ever having shared a bottle of wine with his wife?

Freedoms, alien concept to Nationalists like Adolf Hitler, who believed in whatever is good for the state like this alcohol policy.

Great for the state, f**k the citize/freedom.
28

Free by '93,

24/07/2008 10:24:23
If Kenny MacAskill put every fifers feet in blocks of concrete crime would fall, it would be a "Runnaway success" if you ignore the concrete on the feet of innocent people.

A bit like his drinks tax, or his draconian curbing of basic freedoms.
29

Longdirk Maceth,

nz 24/07/2008 10:25:12
Hawkeye the Noo, well said mate.
30

Scottish 'N British,

24/07/2008 10:37:53
The thought of a teenage Scots soldier, on leave from Iraq or Afghanistan being denied alcohol for a wee celebratory party with his Da, brothers, mates, etc
is enough to make my skin crawl.

And enought to tell me that MacAskill is out of his depth.
31

,

24/07/2008 10:49:16
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32

Free by '93,

24/07/2008 10:50:48
There are too many road deaths in Scotland, mostly young inexperienced drivers/boy racers.

Kenny MacAskill, over to you sir, hmmm, let me think, let's ban driving until your 30?

Another cracking runaway success.
33

,

24/07/2008 10:56:30
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34

,

24/07/2008 11:09:54
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35

,

24/07/2008 11:11:32
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36

Scottish 'N British,

24/07/2008 11:12:34
43

True.

Let's remove England flags displayed in Scottish schools during football tournaments.
37

aljok.23,

THE WORLD 24/07/2008 11:50:04
43, close but the cigar would go to the removal of the butcher apron. The English national flag carries more respect (in my opinion)
38

Scottish 'N British,

24/07/2008 12:10:31
46

The worst excesses of Separatist opinion.

Butcher apron? What that? You could have at least have had the decency to term it appropriately.

Anyway, many hundreds of thousands of Scotsmen have willingly served and died serving under this so-called "butcheR'S apron".

Some may well have been your own ancestors.

They'll no doubt be birlin' in their graves thinking that they fought for freedom and sacrificed their lives for the likes of you.

39

walter,

24/07/2008 12:15:23
Fife population about 354,500 Cupar population about 8,500 of which about 200 are between the age of 16 and 21.
Why are some suggesting that the people of Fife are asked, this scheme is having an effect in Cupar not Fife as a whole.
Mr Caira says there are hardly any young people hanging around on the streets and the ones you do see are not under the influence."
The one you do see that are not under the influence are the ones that you seen in the past that were not under the influence.
The others will have moved to the surrounding villages and towns, what is the figures for offences in these places.

40

King Richard IV,

Brisbane 24/07/2008 12:37:22
Can't be the same Cuper I drove through in an nano seconed in the ninties! There was nobody there to run amoke with after half eight! Except the two council workers rolling up the pavements!
41

,

24/07/2008 12:51:19
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42

jacquesmac,

24/07/2008 12:53:32
The surrounding villages can handle the local twerps. In Cupar they are annonymous.

Auchtermuchty, well that is a different kettle of fish, wee local joke there!

The gene pool is a bit dilute.

43

,

24/07/2008 13:03:05
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44

,

24/07/2008 13:11:25
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45

,

24/07/2008 13:13:43
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46

An Independent Scottish Voice.,

24/07/2008 13:20:32
AM2 if you do decide to reappear under that moniker and since you are very quick to jump on any perceived offensive utterance by SNP people, (Winnie Ewen, seems to be your favorite,) will you please comment on the moniker chosen by #55 and it's offensive connotations?
47

,

24/07/2008 13:24:59
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48

European Scot,

24/07/2008 13:48:27
Quite a little cluster of BNP supporters on here today.
49

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/07/2008 14:12:39
I notice that the over 21 drink trials have had a dramatic downward effect on crime in Cupar, Fife.

I seem to remember Labour decrying this as an initiative that would not work.

Thank heavens for the progressive thinking of the Scottish Government.

Air-gun ban next!
50

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/07/2008 14:15:09
#13 fifi

I suggest you start following Mr Macaskill's initiative to target cheap, freely available drink, particularly with regard to young people.

Keep up !!
51

sweet76,

Coventry 24/07/2008 15:39:46
None of the major parties, be they left,right,Unionist or Nationalist will be able to solve these problems. The collective mind set of politians is to try and please all the people all the time.
In my opinion drugs and alchohol are a major contributing factor to knife crime but tackling it head on would have every lobbyist in the country up in arms.
If we increase the tax on alcohol, the big brewing interests would flex thier muscles. If we put more custom officers in ports and airports looking for drugs, more illegal immigrants would be dicovered so the immigrant groups would complain. Curfews would have liberty groups on the streets. I won't start on stop and search!
The problem will not be solved until they are prepared to tread on some toes. Another round of conferences, tea, coffee etc just means another family coming to terms with another tradegy Sunday morning.
52

,

24/07/2008 15:46:31
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53

Jimmy the Pie,

24/07/2008 15:51:25
How come the canoe man and wife get 6 years in jail for fraud and deception involing £250,000, and David Marshall defrauds £600,000 is still free???

Where are the Polis?????
54

An Independent Scottish Voice.,

24/07/2008 16:42:36
I see. Well you have answered the question AM2 by deleting my posts and hiding as usual when your illegal Chinese behavior is challenged.

What a disgrace you are really pathetic.


Is this a loyalist thing going on here. Is that what it is? God save the Queen, Rule Brittania?

Since you make huge claims to only ever post as AM2 and never tell lies, I want to ask you did you say before the last election in May 2007 that if the SNP won, that we would quickly see a crash in house prices as confidence in Scotland went down?

Was that you?

Will you show face here?

Or are you going into hiding until after the by election to see if you have something to spin and craw about?

Will you keep your promise and leave when Scotland becomes independent?


SAOR ALBA
55

An Independent Scottish Voice.,

24/07/2008 16:45:28








This is what am deleted I wonder why, what does it contravene?

Does any one think AM2 is the censor?





53
An Independent Scottish Voice.,
24/07/2008 13:03:05
I posted comments relevant to the thread regarding anti social behavior and how the SNP are having great success in their efforts to combat it, and the posts are deleted and my moniker binned.

This is a public forum where views should be freely exchanged.

It is widely accepted now that AM2 is behind much of this censorship on comment s that are not on message and are positive in favor of the Scottish Government.

Wether he is in North Bridge or on some remote terminal is irrelevant, he has direct access to the moderator and gets instant results.

AM2 will you please now try and live up to the highest standards of integrity that you aspire to for us all on these boards, and answer my questions without spin and bluster and without deletion, do you think that would give you some credibility.

There was no abuse or offensive words in any of these posts.

Will you please explain what it was about my posts to you that caused the moderator to delete them and bin my moniker.

Please stop this pretense that you have nothing to do with it when it is blatantly obvious that you have, do you have the moral fiber to step up to the plate and do that ?

Do you think in the light of the plunging sales of The Scotsman that this kind of Chinese censorship adds to the credibility and dead tree sales?

Lets see what happens. My betting is on another deletion.





56

An Independent Scottish Voice.,

24/07/2008 16:47:25
Turnout = 41.0% approx. 28000 votes


SNP = 42.0%, 11760
Lab = 39.0%, 10920
Con = 7.5%, 2100
LD = 5.5%.1540
SSP = 3.0%,840
Green = 1.5%, 420
Sol = 0.5%, 140
Ind = 0.5%, 140
F4C = 0.5%, 140

SNP Majority = 3.0%, 840
Swing = 24.0% Lab to SNP.
57

An Independent Scottish Voice.,

24/07/2008 16:47:26
Turnout = 41.0% approx. 28000 votes


SNP = 42.0%, 11760
Lab = 39.0%, 10920
Con = 7.5%, 2100
LD = 5.5%.1540
SSP = 3.0%,840
Green = 1.5%, 420
Sol = 0.5%, 140
Ind = 0.5%, 140
F4C = 0.5%, 140

SNP Majority = 3.0%, 840
Swing = 24.0% Lab to SNP.
58

Bemused and above it all,

24/07/2008 17:23:31
so a nice range of views,
some proposing a policy based on a successful SNP pilot, some decrying it as separatist nonsense which infringes civil liberties!
Genuis the debating skills which some possess
59

Fifi la Bonbon,

24/07/2008 19:40:57
The "successful SNP pilot" wasn't an SNP pilot.

It was an initiative by the cops working with the retail trade in Cupar and Springfield.

The SNP candidate in the Glasgow East by-election falsely claimed credit for it on behalf of the SNP and now the SNP supporters here are falsely claiming credit for it.

60

,

24/07/2008 20:02:11
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61

,

24/07/2008 20:02:11
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62

SECURITY,

24/07/2008 20:38:46
TAKE COVER INCOMING INCOMING

tinyurl.com/6fgxlg
63

Fanling,

Switzerland 25/07/2008 03:32:37
#10 frank mcbride,lusitania

"#9, Subrosa." (Nine - huh? Wakey, wakey.)
64

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 25/07/2008 03:57:42
Thank god for the SNP. Cupar, Fife is already a huge success.
65

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/07/2008 17:47:02
71 - the significance is the fat that the SNP candidate and his supporters twisted the truth and claimed credit for someone else's work. It's also significant that SNP people tried to co-opt a cop, just as they did on a campaign leaflet.
66

Rob me blind,

Peterhead 02/08/2008 09:34:06
"The job of government is to act on behalf of the interests of the people of Scotland," Mr Salmond said ahead of the trip.
Well Salmond when will you act on behalf of the people who you are supposed to represent. Within the last ten days there have been two attempted abductions of women, one crime involving a firearm, and a stabbing all within five minutes of your new constituency office in Inverurie. What about it Salmond what are you and your Justice Minister doing about it???????
67

bluehead,

edinburgh 10/08/2008 09:56:56
from what has happened up to now I can't see any improvement in fact from what I see and read,things can only get worse,SNP seemed so sensible in the run up to the Scottish election,but now they are just a pile of plonkers,like the labour mob,
I have the feeling that we go from bad to worse,the world of politics stinks at the best of times,it just seems to get stronger all the time.

 

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