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How Labour found ominous chink in the SNP's armour

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Published Date: 08 November 2008
IT IS perhaps debatable which was Labour's greater achievement in Glenrothes: getting the Prime Minister to smile or wiping the smirk from the First Minister's face. But they certainly managed both.
Labour did not just defend a safe seat successfully (something it failed to do in Glasgow East in July or Dunfermline two years ago). It managed to increase its share of the vote – by as much as three points. Only rarely do governments manage to accomplish this in by-elections.

The Tories didn't manage it once in any of the Scottish by-elections held when they were in office between 1979 and 1997. It last happened to a Labour government in Berwick and East Lothian in 1978, when the SNP were on the slide.

Not that this was obviously the fate of the SNP in Glenrothes. The nationalist vote was well up – by 13 points compared with its (admittedly poor) result in 2005. However, that was only half the increase the party achieved in Glasgow East.

But perhaps more ominously for Alex Salmond, his party's share of the spoils was down – by nearly seven points – on what happened in the constituency in last year's Scottish Parliament election. Perhaps the SNP honeymoon is indeed well and truly over after all. In truth, however, the outcome in Glenrothes exaggerates the SNP's difficulties and Labour's recovery. Two local by-elections that were also held on Thursday, one in Glasgow and one in Edinburgh, paint a more sober picture.

In both cases, there was still a small swing to the SNP since last year, albeit insufficient in either case for the nationalists to deny Labour victory. At the same time, the Glasgow contest – in a ward in the east end – confirmed that there has been a modest 4 per cent swing back to Labour in recent weeks. It is that 4 per cent figure, not the Glenrothes movement, that chimes with the size of the "Brown bounce" as measured in recent polls.

Yet if the Glenrothes result was exceptional, the way in which it was achieved must still give Alex Salmond pause for thought. Instead of fighting as the UK government that had solved the banking crisis, Labour primarily positioned itself as the opposition to the SNP on Fife Council and at Holyrood. Its key ploy was to make hay with increased charges for homecare and emergency alarms.

This homecare row was not just a local issue. It exemplified what has been Labour's key critique of the SNP government to date – that in spending money to keep the council tax down and to reduce business rates, the nationalists have put essential public services in peril.

In Glenrothes, Labour demonstrated an ability to give that intellectual argument a highly charged emotional resonance. In so doing, it perhaps made people question just whose "side" the nationalists are on after all; potentially a far more fruitful line of attack than scaremongering about the perils of independence. Of course, Labour's ability to exploit the issue as effectively as it did in Glenrothes was enhanced because the SNP candidate, Peter Grant, was the leader of the council responsible for the charges in question. In hindsight, his selection must be regarded as a tactical error.

Nevertheless, the SNP has been warned that it will need to be more effective in future in responding to this line of attack if its reputation for good governance in Scotland's interests is not to be undermined.

The SNP was far from being the only party to be disappointed with the outcome. Both the Conservatives, whose vote fell by three points, and the Liberal Democrats, whose tally collapsed by no less than ten points, were badly squeezed as voters focused on the tussle between Labour and the SNP.

There is still no sign at all of Mr Cameron's Tory revival percolating north of the Border.

Meanwhile, Nick Clegg and Tavish Scott have learned the hard way that promises of tax cuts are not necessarily a guarantee of success. Fortunately for them, most Lib Dem MPs in Scotland are sitting on large majorities. They may well need them.

• John Curtice is Professor of Politics, Strathclyde University.

A result that took even the bookies by surprise

PUNTERS, politicians and pundits all got their predictions largely wrong for Glenrothes.

But the worst culprits were the bookies, who are meant to have the inside track.

Alex Salmond, the First Minister, certainly had a flutter, although there is no word about how out of pocket he is.

Ladbrokes spokesman Nick Weinberg, said: "We were as stunned as anyone by the result. The SNP were all the rage in the days before, while Labour appeared to be friendless."

Even SNP researchers on modest wages took a punt, no doubt skewing the odds.

But ultimately, the will to win did not pay off in either cash or constituency terms.

The SNP were on 1/5 to win before Ladbrokes stopped betting. And Labour, who closed as 11/4 outsiders, defied the odds emphatically to keep the seat.

The betting firm said yesterday that Labour was now 11/4 to win the next general election, in from 5/2.


Page 1 of 1

 
1

Evolution in action,

St Andrews 08/11/2008 00:04:26

Oh, Oh, the choice is bewteen economically disasterous

Emglish Scot Brown and devolutionary disasterous Scot,

Scot Salmond, HELP!
2

Churchill W.,

08/11/2008 00:58:55
Five seconds on any nudist beach would be enough to knock the smug smirk from Salmond's face; the loss of a "certain" victory in the Glenrothes bye election will have disastrous consequences for his dubious virility!
3

Churchill W.,

08/11/2008 01:05:37
The bookies conned the SNP supporters. It will not be the last time that the bookies make a fortune on a false favourite; particularly where the SNP are that "favourite."
Lets hope that Salmond lost a packet. Does Scotland really need to put its future in the hands of that false favourite, Salmond? I don't think so!
4

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 08/11/2008 01:16:15
n Glenrothes, Labour demonstrated an ability to give that intellectual argument a highly charged emotional resonance.

Labour and intelect do not belong in the same sentance

Why did we lose yes a massive swing to Labour on the last day but why ??????????????.

I will not attack the good people of Glenrothes for returning Lindsay Roy but as my Grandma said you make your own bed and you lie in it .

But when you start losing your jobs due to the economic crisis pleases remember this was a devolved issue and yes devolved to London .

You have made your own bed and Labour is going yo c&*p in it .

woo hoo heres to the union

Please join in

LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY ..................
5

Otis Boone,

Sacramento 08/11/2008 01:29:13
I always though Salmond was smug. I watched this entire election run-up more than Obama vs McCain. Salmond's only argument was that he will trounce Labour because of its inept Prime Minister, whom everyone hated.

He thought Glenrothes was his, by virtue of the fact he's the Scots First Minister.
He thought Glenrothes would vote for him because He was the anti-Gordon Brown.
He thought he had stature: "Prime Minister, come debate me. Come to Glenrothes, and we will still win."

Obviously, Salmond took cues from Al Gore and John Kerry in the last two Presidential Elections. Here's advice from a Yankee: If You want to win, make sure Your image is that of a public servant, and not of an Arrogant SOB. Sincerity gets more votes than Arrogance. If you don't realize that, SNP will be the minority in a Minority Government after next election.

And don't be McCain, begging for votes to stop a movement. Campaign, position Your platform, and give the public sincerity in your position. You'll have a better chance of victory instead of an assured outcome of loss.

Now the roadmap for Labour and Unionistas: Campaign the virtues of the Union. Campaign the effectiveness of the Union. Campaign the weakness of SNPs platform and government (ie. borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, with regard to your Council Taxes), and remind the people of how Alex Salmond appears to be drunk with power, and you will prevail.

Methinks Scottish Independence will take longer to achieve now.
6

Edward,

08/11/2008 01:30:29
this has to be Professor John Curtice, that well known Lib Dem supporter and activist, who pretends to know whats going on, usually afterthe event though
7

Otis Boone,

Sacramento 08/11/2008 01:34:43
#8

Are you referring to me?
8

subrosa,

08/11/2008 01:35:00
Pity the voters of Glenrothes didn't take note of the following warnings Gordon ignored.
1) Dec 2003 IMF gives Brown borrowing warning
??2) Sep 2005 IMF report warning over £1 trillion mountain of debt
3) Sep 2005 Brown besieged over growth and borrowing plans
4) Dec 2005 IMF fires new warning over Britain's finances
5) Sep 2006 IMF warns over possible UK property crash
6) Oct 2007 IMF report UK house market is 'heading for crash'
??7) Apr 2008 IMF: UK vulnerable to US-style housing slump ??This October, the IMF said that the UK was worst placed of all the major economies to weather the coming recession. ??

Thanks Gordon.

??It needs to be repeated every time a Labour Minister gets on the TV and says it couldn't be foreseen ........... YES IT COULD. YES IT WAS. GORDON IGNORED THE WARNINGS.

9

Edward,

08/11/2008 01:48:28
#10 Otis Boone,Sacramento
If the cap fits and all that!
If you really are the Professor of Politics at Strathclyde that is
10

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 01:55:31
#11, Quite correct subrosa. Gordon Broon Pants is a chinless, spineless yellow belly traitor who hasn't the wit or guts to act decisively on any matter, even ones where he is supposed to be adept, such as his claim to be an expert and experienced economist. Aye, that he is expert at making mistakes and experienced at ignoring warnings and taking the wrong course. Great to have him as the leader of our union....NOT!

PS. Nice post Colonel at #13
11

Canada,

Canada 08/11/2008 02:01:31
Congratulations Scotland. Underlings once again. Can't cope with freedom, self determination when offered. What a pathetic lot of underlings. Good old Labour. London rules. They put you in your place: underlings. Yellow Scots.
12

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 02:12:18
#15 Canada; True, true, many people are afraid of change or the big bad world out there and going it alone for the first time in 300 years. However, more and more people are seeing the light of reason and the vote for freedom from Whitehall will continue to grow. The more the Westminster government mistreats the people of Scotland, the more people will make the decision that they want to take back their destiny. Canada was built with the help of ingenious and hard-working Scots and soon the people of Scotland will have the chance to do the same for their own country.
13

Richard Lionheart,

08/11/2008 02:27:14
#11 Good point. That is why Gordon Brown needs a Global Early warning system, so he could ignore it too!
14

Watson,

Irvine 08/11/2008 03:18:59
It won't be long before Brown's bounce will burst. You can't spend your way out of a recession and when the people of Fife start to lose their homes and jobs then they will know who to blame. Brown has put our children and their children into debt, a debt that will take forever to repay.
15

Finlang,

Switzerland (and Chinaland) 08/11/2008 03:33:50
#5 Col. Blimp­IV*

Couldn't you have clarified or qualified the unpunctuated one-word post there? The Scotsman regularly manages to make itself look foolish, vis-à-vis arbitrary censorship which it then contradicts in reports. One rule for them ... Your further post #9 oversteps the mark. Not clever. As a Scotsman abroad (and especially in England) I give very short shrift to anybody who calls me a Jock.
16

Snuffy Ivy,

Aberdeen. 08/11/2008 04:15:01
Fifers are a bunch of fearties of the London government.
Fife fudgers. Name any Fifer who could stick with anything!
17

drunken proffet,

Tassy 08/11/2008 05:27:21
#15 Canada. Nonsense, this is a gesture by the voters of Glenrothes to their English friends. Go to the polls Mr Brown, your country waits to vote for you or against you, whatever. It is either that or put up with the misery while he drags it out to its inevitable end.
18

S'me,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 05:32:46
Common sense prevails at last, the emotional argument from the Nats is becoming more transparent..
19

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 05:51:58
#23 In what way is this a vote for common sense? Any support for Gudrun Broon-Pants at this stage must be counter intuitive. The negative comments about him by anti-unionist posters are mostly true and the positive spin from his camp followers is just that, spin and hype. Gudrun deserves no more votes and no more support, especially in his homeland which he has foresaken and appears to hate with a rare and hideous venom.

ALBA GU BRATH!

FREEEEEDOM!
20

Thomas1,

// 08/11/2008 06:20:23
The United Kingdom is in fact a figment of unionist imagination,the vast majority of people in the world don't understand what the UK realy is
(and that includes labour voters in Glenrothes)
people all over the world don't talk about the UK they always refer to England as being the UK and some people go as far to say that Scotland is a colony of England.So i say to the Labour voters in glenrothes,next time you go abroad
(if you've ever been abroad)don't tell people your from the UK just say England,it simplifies matters.



21

The Tin Man,

08/11/2008 06:40:16
Unless the SNP can come up with a solid argument that SNP-led councils are not cutting local services (which will be a difficult argument to make), then this is a real stick for Labour to hit the SNP with, for the average voter.

If the SNP wish to continue to make local tax-cuts, they have to come clean with what the results will be - ie. no local charity funding, no swimming pool, higher charges for the disabled, but you can put a down-payment on a new TV.

And don't promise heavily subsidised, cheap electricity and gas when people know that they are having their plonkers pulled.
22

The Tin Man,

08/11/2008 07:16:45
#25 Thomas

Salt is useful for removing red wine stains from carpets.
23

steve 1511,

aberdeen 08/11/2008 07:19:36
a vote for comrade broon the feartie fifer is a vote to accept
a bankrupt country
a deep depression
massive increase in unemployment
100ks to lose their homes
rip off energy companies
rip off oil companies
rip off banks
a government of sleaze and corruption
workers taxed at the highest rates ever
inflation rampant
and thats just the start of it,wait til our great leader herr broon of the stasi party brings us the bad news over the next 2 years,
WE ARE DOOMED WITH BROON, DOOMED

24

Guga II,

Rockall 08/11/2008 07:25:07
As the recession begins to bite, and job losses continue to mount, all those that voted for the monkey with the red rosette will have plenty of spare time on their hands, while collecting their dole money, to rue their decision to continue supporting the London run New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party.
25

Churchill W.,

08/11/2008 07:32:36
Guga II, # 29

Yeah, you are right, they should have voted for the council chief who saw fit to cheat the weakest in society out of their lifeline services, at the behest of slimy Alec Salmond.
Who needs to Tories in power when Salmond is there to carry out their policies. Salmond only got his budget through with the help of Annabel Goldie and her crew, remember? The voters at Glenrothes did, even though you want to forget it.
26

donald,

glasgow 08/11/2008 07:42:43
When the recession kicks in and more jobs are lost and homes repossessed the hype over SuperBroon will fade. When Labour continues to make fools of themselves in Holyrood and the world at large, perhaps the Fifers will reflect upon what they have done. The rest of Scotland looked to them for hope, to poke one in the eye to Broon. The rest of Scotland will be champing at the bit for revenge come the next election. Labour will be beaten in Eng;and, Scotland and Wales, for diverse and different reasons. Cameron will have to face a heightened demand for Scottish Independence, even if he is to the left of Unionist Labour.
27

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 08/11/2008 07:43:02
The fact that a 5% swing to the SNP in a "safe" Labour seat is considered a bad result,is a sign og the times.While the failure to win Glenrothes is disapointing,it might be a blessing in disguise if the lessons are learned.

Of course Labour were misleading voters.The education budget in Fife has not been cut,The Labour candidate did not even know what his budget was.Caring costs for elderly people have only been increased for a small number who can afford the increase.Most elderly people (including my auntwho recieves care in the Glenrothes constituency) are not paying more.It is difficult to combat Labours misleading information when they domibnate the media.However there is a need to attack the logical flaws that underpin their rhetoric.

It has been suggested that the council tax freeze has contributed to an increase in care costs.However,Labours suggestion that council tax is not frozen,means that many people,who do not have an ability to pay,would face rising costs.This contrasts with asking a few people,who can afford to pay,to pay more for their care.Of course,it could be argued,that nobody should pay more their care,or their council tax.Scotland is wealthy enough to implement that policy.The only problem is that the Scottish government only controls a small proportion of the countries wealth in a block grant handed out by Westminster.This is the real issue,avoided by Labour.Satisfying needs costs money.That involves either full independance,or fiscal autonomy for the Scottish Parliament.Labour cannot be allowed to argue for greater spending but refuse to follow the logical course that woulf free up the necessary resourcesThat is the logical flaw in their position.Using that point,we could argue that Labour are to blame for any increase in care costs,since they defend the situation that makes it necessary.

28

Churchill W.,

08/11/2008 07:48:31
Suomi # 32

As I said, who needs the Tories when slimy Salmond is here to decide who gets what. Annabel Goldie is well pleased with her little apprentice.
29

Thomas1,

// 08/11/2008 07:59:51
27 The Tin Man,

telescopes are useful for seeing beyond the nose.

This applies especially to people in Glenrothes who voted for labour.
30

Andrew Allan,

08/11/2008 08:19:58
Oh big news! labour wins safe seat, now they must be doing something right. Ok where's the punch line. I'm sorry but I don't buy all this rubbish there was any risk to Labour in that seat, though I do admit that Labour did a fantastic job in making it look as if they could lose to make the win look like a come back for the party.
31

Marian,

08/11/2008 08:42:39
To increase its vote share by 5% is a very considerable feat for the SNP in this ultra "safe" constituency in Gordon Brown's backyard which is a tribal heartland of Old Labour loyalists who still genuinely believe that they are voting for Old Labour when they give their votes to the New Labour party.

There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this was another wholly negative campaign by New Labour who cling to their belief that If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

In the run-up to the by-election it thus became vitally important for New Labour to use all of its powers to repress dissent via its control of the Scots media, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of New Labour.

However the lies can be maintained only for such time as New Labour can shield the people from the political and economic consequences of the lies.

New Labour have lied to us, not once, but repeatedly for more than a decade. And now all the lies are being exposed. The myth of Brown's economic "genius" is coming tumbling down and the whole shoddy edifice of debt-ridden idiocy is displayed for all of us to see.

The wheels will come off New Labour's bus in the next 12 months as voters witness famous UK businesses folding on a weekly basis and unemployment rocketing to 1930's levels when the UK recession really begins to take hold.
32

Melly,

Cuckfield 08/11/2008 08:54:49
Drive around Glenrothes and the surrounding villages and small towns and soak up the utopia that Liebour have created over the past 50 years. I guess that must be why they keep returning a numpty MP to Westminster to carry out the Socialist dictum. They`ve created a desert and called it Eden, but them "ma faither voted labour, we`ve aye voted labour". God help us.
33

carrottop,

Dumfries 08/11/2008 08:55:10
The SNP's big mistake is that they want to be seen as the party that is giving everyone something for nothing (eg school meals, health care etc) but even the biggest fool knows there is no such thing as a free lunch. Get the fundamentals right then if we are still filthy rich I dont mind something nice for Christmas but dont expect Santa's sleigh to be creaking.
34

The Tin Man,

08/11/2008 09:00:38
#32 Soumi

...And rich kids should get free school meals?
35

The Tin Man,

08/11/2008 09:01:18
#32 Soumi

...Free prescriptions for all?
36

mike3,

08/11/2008 09:04:14
Ah, hubris. The higher they gleefully puff themselves up, the more devastating the deflation can be.
37

The Tin Man,

08/11/2008 09:05:07
#32 Soumi

... Greater subsidies for fuel bills?

38

The Tin Man,

08/11/2008 09:05:36
#34 Soumi

...Plus a Council Tax freeze...
39

The Tin Man,

08/11/2008 09:06:02
#34 Soumi

...Plus business Rates cuts...?
40

The Busman,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 09:16:44
Critics of the Union would do well to remind themselves why Scotland went into it in the first place: because it was bankrupt in the aftermath of Darien. I still think the real culprit in the Scottish outlook is the socialist malaise which hangs over the country, the West of Scotland in particular, not least because of the 'dependency culture' it encourages.

And in a country as increasingly multi- cultural and multi-lingual as Scotland is ... what is it to be Scottish, anyway?
41

Pocket Dictionary,

08/11/2008 09:19:02
#45 The home care charges being introduced in Fife is Scottish wide. COSLA decided the 32 Scottish local authorities had to charge for home care. So, even in Labour controlled councils these have been introduced. Fife happened to be one of, if not the last council to do so.

What needs to be published is a comparison table of what each council is charging for what. Then we can have an idea if Fife is the most expensive.

Had the SNP been fighting the seat and a Labour controlled council was in Fife. They would have attacked Labour over the home care charges. We're just back to Yah-Boo politics.

I see Lindsay Roy now has a Wikipedia entry.
42

Logician,

Boghead park,Dumbarton 08/11/2008 09:26:49
Joe

Rightwing SNP. That's a good one.

Salmond invaded Iraq,will renew Trident,cossied up to the City and opposed free school meals.The smug so and so is abolishing prescription charges and wants to introduce a local govt.tax system based on ability to pay.

Erm, hang on a minute......
43

The Tin Man,

08/11/2008 09:37:08
#47 Pocket

That's correct, but Fife did raise the charge higher than any Labour-controlled council.

Labour used Scottish politics to portray themselves as the under-dog, based their campaign on real local issues... and won.

The SNP were dragged into it - they should have stuck to blaming everything on Westminster, along with the Golden Dawn Promise. They didn't help themselves with their candidate.
44

The Tin Man,

08/11/2008 09:42:45
#48 Logician

The SNP have cut business Rates, they have introduced a temporary local taxation cut, and they wish to introduce a big tax cut with a 3% LIT. They also mutter about halving corporation tax (managing director pays 20% tax on income).

These are fiscal policies which put the Conservatives to shame.
45

Dragonlord,

08/11/2008 09:43:43
It managed to increase its share of the vote – by as much as three points.

You can make figures say anything you want. The SNP were reported to have increased their share by 5%. What is clear, Labour had a 10,000 majority reduced to 6,000. That is not good however you look at it. The problem with by-elections is, too many vote in a trditional manner and ignore the policies. I voted Labour because my father and grandfather voted Labour, is no indication of how well a party is doing.The SNP will dust themselves down and come the next general election will be stronger.
46

Angleland Isover,

08/11/2008 09:44:01
#46Busman. Didnt the english greatly contribute to the failure of Darien, to bankrupt Scotland and pull them into the union.
47

BIG EYE,

Paisley 08/11/2008 10:01:10
This article is written by John Curtice, the BBC's "neutral" polling expert.

Just how neutral is "wiping the smirk from the First Minister's face" sound to you?

Surely a sacking offence EBC?

Thought not!
48

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 08/11/2008 10:20:12
#47

"I see Lindsay Roy now has a Wikipedia entry"

Is it under "People Who Look Like Marty Feldman"?
49

Scythia,

Alba 08/11/2008 10:31:49
No 46 - Excellent points. The answer to your last question is:


_________.
50

Pocket Dictionary,

08/11/2008 10:38:03
#49 - that's why I would like to see a comparison table published of charges and who controls each council. I tried to research some of it myself, but its difficult and even local authority websites are none too forthcoming on charges. I don't have the time to resort to the FoI Act.
51

The Scotchman,

08/11/2008 10:45:43
Marty Feldman... who voted Paul O'Grady in!
52

domski,

Glasgow 08/11/2008 10:56:53
Glenrothes indicates one simple thing: the SNP have still not managed to convince people that a separatist agenda will best serve the financial interests of themselves and their families. They are still unable to present independence as a "risk free" option.

What will happen to my mortgage? My taxes? What currency will I earn in? What will happen to my job? All these questions and more are suddenly more pertinent in the midst of an economic downturn than they in boom times.

Suddenly, the pocketbook rules people's minds as they enter a polling station. They see oil (Scotland's only worthwhile commodity) plummeting in value. They see our two biggest companies rescued by the Exchequer. And when they see these things happening it will take more than an oversized Saltire and a cheeky chappie grinning "yes we can!" to persuade them to leave the relative safety of the gigantic UK economy.

This is not to say Scotland couldn't be independent. But the SNP have to realise that most Scots are not as obsessed as they are by the simple notion of independence. They will support it if the SNP can demonstrate that it is in their financial interests.

At the moment the SNP are very far off reaching a viable intellectual argument on this score. That's why independence remains little more than a pipe dream.
53

,

08/11/2008 11:10:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
54

Queen D,

Glasgow 08/11/2008 11:26:55
I'd like to know more about these Fifers who appear to have left the country for the duration of the election and therefore needed postal votes .
Anyone??
55

Yr Awel,

Here & There 08/11/2008 11:48:47
48 Logician

There's your answer: '...in spending money to keep the council tax down and to reduce business rates, the nationalists have put essential public services in peril.' (J. Curtice)
Of course, the SNP are fundamentally conservative (small 'c') as they defend an essentialist vision of society. Alex Salmond not long ago said (Question Time - 22 Feb. 2007) independence is about 'us' (do check if you don't believe me). BUT: who is 'us'?
Sounds very much like the 'one-nation' vision of the ... Tories to me!
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that in plural societies, we need plural political identities. And the Union is just about that despite its many failings.
So please, don't throw the baby with the bath water.

The Tin Man & The Busman
All I can say is: you have made excellent points in your posts. Keep up the good work!
56

,

08/11/2008 12:10:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
57

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 12:11:40
#49 and #50 No Tin Brain, I believe that Glasgow charges about a fiver a week more than Fife and have been doing so for longer, (correct me if I'm wrong).

The SNP are keen to encourage businesses to set up in Scotland and reduce the tax burden on those already here, hence the tax cuts. The UK is one of the most highly taxed countries in the world and what do we have to show for it? A lot of very fat wealthy politicians. (I agree Alex Salmond should watch his weight, Gudrun Broon Pants should just stuff himself 'til he bursts).

ALBA GU BRATH

FREEEEDOM!

YA BASS!
58

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 12:11:41
#49 and #50 No Tin Brain, I believe that Glasgow charges about a fiver a week more than Fife and have been doing so for longer, (correct me if I'm wrong).

The SNP are keen to encourage businesses to set up in Scotland and reduce the tax burden on those already here, hence the tax cuts. The UK is one of the most highly taxed countries in the world and what do we have to show for it? A lot of very fat wealthy politicians. (I agree Alex Salmond should watch his weight, Gudrun Broon Pants should just stuff himself 'til he bursts).

ALBA GU BRATH

FREEEEDOM!

YA BASS!
59

john z,

edinburgh 08/11/2008 12:41:53
We ofen hear told of the benefits of the union, but nobody says what they are. So, what are the benefits of the union, whereby we let England have our oil and Gas and run our country??
60

john z,

edinburgh 08/11/2008 12:52:24
Number 46, Scotland was not bankrupt due to Darien, just certain wealthy individuals. The 'parcel of rogues' who signed the act of union in Edinburgh, were absolutely despised throughout Scotland.

The act of Union was not something the people of Scotland wanted.

Is it any surprise that now all people can see is how much they lose from the union.

By staying in the union, the people of Scotland lose their chance to take back control of their own country, their natural assets like oil and gas (there's at least another forty years of oil in the North sea), and they especially lose the respect of other countries by staying in the subservient to England union. The people of Scotland lose by staying in the union, whereby Scotland is run by the English.

Scotland loses in the union because it cannot set its own taxation policies to attract inward development and investment from global industry.

Long term, the people of Scotland will continue to lose wealth, jobs and prosperity under the English Union.
61

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 12:59:59
I'm afraid Curtice is a bit boring. He's always stating the obvious. Clever, but not very original, and seem to be out to sea with regard to political culture. This is what happens when you spend too much time with spreadsheets and SPSS.
62

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 13:05:52
This is good for the SNP. There were voters in Glenrothes who switched back to Labour after switching to SNP. There's no reason we can't have them back. But there's nothing wrong with left wing voters playing two left wing parties off against each other. And to be honest, this is easy as the majority of Scots don't give a damn that much about independence or the union either way. There are very few who would be dead set against it. So we have a divided left. The only way to sort that out is independence and that is the lesson Scottish Labour need to learn. Independence takes that division away and that would be better for everyone.
63

Marian,

08/11/2008 13:16:33
New Labour and its media acolytes really are clutching at straws if they think that their retaining an ultra safe constituency in Old Labour tribal heartlands a few miles from their so-called leaders home by a considerably reduced majority is somehow an endorsement of their leader and his economic management of the UK economy.

They are kidding themselves on even more if they think they can risk calling a UK General Election on the back of their retention of their Glenrothes seat. The reality is that Glenrothes was merely an irrelevant side-show in the greater scheme of things as UK General Elections are won and lost in England where the media is not so easily controlled and the electorate are not so easily duped.

New Labour have lied to us, not once, but repeatedly for more than a decade. And now all the lies are being exposed. The myth of Brown's economic "genius" is coming tumbling down and the whole shoddy edifice of debt-ridden idiocy is displayed for all of us to see.

The wheels will come off New Labour's bus in the next 12 months as voters witness famous UK businesses folding on a weekly basis and unemployment rocketing to 1930's levels when the UK recession really begins to take hold.

All the evidence points to a resounding thrashing of New Labour by the Tories in England come the next UK General Election. The Tories will take not only the suburbs, the market towns and the rural seats, but will rip England's cities free also. Gordon Brown will be very lucky if New Labour retain a hundred seats next time round. With a 5% swing as happened in Glenrothes it will lose votes and other so-called 'safe' heartland seats to Plaid Cymru in Wales and to the SNP in Scotland.

New Labour will fall back on its tribal heartlands once they have been ousted from control of the UK Government. However if their past record is anything to go by they will meekly accept any retaliatory punishment that the Tories impose on Scotland and Wales.

Devolution as it i
64

Marian,

08/11/2008 13:16:53
continued....

Devolution as it is practised is never going to satisfy Scots as there is too much interference with it by New Labour at Westminster. And the aspiration for an independent Scotland will never go away. It has lasted for a hundred years or more and will continue until independence is granted.
65

Rodrigo,

Ashfield 08/11/2008 13:36:38
What makes a bunch of scots fascists 'left wing'? Must be stating something very original and exotic to believe that. Maybe if Alex had spent some time with his spreadsheet he would be more on the nail with his foggy political predictions. But when you are painting yoursel into a demogogic scots masterpiece yer swastika is bound to skid, along with the fortunes of yer unoriginal parrot-fashion party as it marches lemming-like over the nearest precipice. Switch-back! Media conspiracy theories! No one paranoid in there then.
66

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

08/11/2008 14:12:43
The main reason I wouldn't vote for an independent Scotland is that Salmond, MacAskill and the rest of the tartan taleban would immediately be in charge of it.
67

The Tin Man,

08/11/2008 14:26:03
#64 Billiam

I am lead to believe that Glasgow charges less.

The UK is fairly highly taxed compared to some places outwith Western Europe, but it is pushing it to say that "the UK is one of the most highly taxed countries in the world".

The SNP have a very right-wing fiscal policy, and I am not sure if that will really sit easily with the general sentiments of the Scots.
68

Matt there,

Somewhere 08/11/2008 16:17:24
"How Labour found ominous chink in the SNP's armour" or how Churnalists at The Scotsman just churn the sour milk of a Labour Party press release and make butter with it.

It looks like butter. It causes problems when someone tries to consume it and they realise it is rancid, tastes vile and is likely to stink out the whole house.
69

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 08/11/2008 17:01:09
oh NO, the honeymoon's over! Liebore are BAACCKK!!!

Umm, doubt it somehow, England will vote Tory when the GE comes.
70

George Coutts,

08/11/2008 17:06:49
Ask Roy if he will bring a car maker to Glenrothes, theres 30 odd over the border.
More chance in hell freezing over or maybe he could reserect the MIMI MOKE.
What will he do for the residents of Glenrothes, be a nodding head doggie on the car dash and of course go to the toilet, assisted by the look of him.
You Labourites had the chance to do something constructive with your vote but all you did was clap and cheer at a GOGSIE PUPPET.
Suffer in silence you sorry lot.
71

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 21:24:26
I thought the photo at the top of the page was from a forthcoming remake of the Wicker Man.
72

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 23:50:08
"wiping the smirk from the First Minister's face."

"Perhaps the SNP honeymoon is indeed well and truly over after all."

"it perhaps made people question just whose "side" the nationalists are on after all"

"In hindsight, his selection [Peter Grant's] must be regarded as a tactical error"

A very smug, biased article for a supposedly independent political expert. Grant was an experienced politician who knew the local issues, while Roy was an incompetent who was well pumped up with nonsense statistics and blatant lies. The candidate was not the problem.

As for the party, they are on the side of Scotland and always have been. While the SNP will learn lessons from this campaign it will not affect their commitment to their cause one iota.

The fact is the SNP's vote went up substantially, Labour's went up slightly while both the Tories and Lib Dems lost their deposits.

Labour retaking a seat where they had a 10,500 majority is not as big a deal as the unionist press would have us believe. The SNP won a seat in Glasgow East, Labour held a seat in Glenrothes, there's a difference. Or would Prof Curtice automatically expect a Labour win in a strong SNP held seat? I very much doubt it.

As for Salmond's supposed arrogance in saying the party would win, faint heart never won fair lady. The SNP took a good shot at it and failed but they were up against a dishonest campaign which grossly misrepresented the policies of Fife council.

If Brown thinks his goose is saved because of this then he is only fooling himself. Keep on claiming we're dead Britman because it will make our ultimate victory all the sweeter.
73

Reiver,

Galashiels 09/11/2008 14:33:53
Keep the nonsense coming boys ... you're simply showing what the lack of a good education does for one ... How does that tune go for number #4 ... ah, yes, here it is ...

LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY
Dear Land of Hope, thy hope is crowned.
God make thee mightier yet!
On Sov'ran brows, beloved, renowned,
Once more thy crown is set.
Thine equal laws, by Freedom gained,
Have ruled thee well and long;
By Freedom gained, by Truth maintained,
Thine Empire shall be strong.

Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free,
How shall we extol thee, who are born of thee?
Wider still and wider shall thy bounds be set;
God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet.
God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet.

Thy fame is ancient as the days,
As Ocean large and wide:
A pride that dares, and heeds not praise,
A stern and silent pride:
Not that false joy that dreams content
With what our sires have won;
The blood a hero sire hath spent
Still nerves a hero son.
-- A C Benson

Coronation Ode

Land of Hope and Glory,
Mother of the Free,
How may we extol thee,
Who are born of thee?

Truth and Right and Freedom,
Each a holy gem,
Stars of solemn brightness,
weave thy diadem.
Tho' thy way be darkened,
Still in splendour drest,
As the star that trembles
O'er the liquid West.
Throned amid the billows,
Throned inviolate,
Though hast reigned victorious,
Though has smiled at fate.

Land of Hope and Glory,
Fortress of the Free,
How may we extol thee,
Praise thee, honour thee?

Hark, a mighty nation
Maketh glad reply;
Lo, our lips are thankful,
Lo, our hearts are high!
Hearts in hope uplifted,
Loyal lips that sing;
Strong in faith and freedom,
We have crowned our King!
74

Reiver,

Galashiels 09/11/2008 14:36:05
Feel free to sing it as you work lads :) ... if any of you do actually work for a living that is ...
75

truthsleuth,

09/11/2008 15:49:05
You can tell the SNP voter
Wears a kilt and to show his virility sits on a nettle.
76

resident edinburgh,

12/11/2008 11:24:35
How the Nationalsist cannot stand voters making a free choice that does not put them first at all times. What Labour must do is just trust the voters, they will get it right more often than they vote Nationalist.
Salmond put his standing on the line and the Glenrothes electorate told him exactly what the majority of them thought about him.

 

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