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Fresh criticisms of alcohol sales plan



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Published Date: 07 September 2008
Opponents of plans to raise the age for buying alcohol in shops and off-sales today renewed their claim that the change would not solve Scotland's drink problem.
The Scottish Government has put forward proposals to increase the legal age limit for buying drink in off-licences from 18 to 21.

The move is part of a package of measures aimed at ending Scotland's drink culture.

It was suggested after pilot studies were carried out – including one in Stenhousemuir which public health minister Shona Robison will discover more about during a visit tomorrow.

But today the Coalition Against Raising the Drinking Age in Scotland (Cardas) claimed the "true results" of such trials showed "raising the minimum purchase age for alcohol will not help solve Scotland's alcohol problem".

In a submission to the government Cardas – which includes the National Union of Students Scotland and the Scottish Youth Parliament – claimed while the average number of vandalism incidents and calls about youth disorder had fallen, the average number of minor assaults had actually risen during the pilot project.

Cardas co-ordinator Tom French said:

"If the police have conceded – based on the actual results – that these trials were inconclusive, and the official analysis shows this to be the case, it beggars belief that the Scottish Government are still pedalling out mistruths in some attempt to hold together their increasingly shaky case for raising the minimum purchase age."

He added: "The Scottish Government have claimed that it is their job to lead, but a good leader also listens.

"It was shocking that the Scottish Government announced their intentions to raise the purchase age before their farce of a public consultation had ended, and it is worrying that the SNP appear to be ignoring the true results from these trials and the clear evidence from abroad – that raising the minimum purchase age for alcohol will not help solve Scotland's alcohol problem."

Meanwhile Tory community safety spokesman John Lamont said:

"The solution being heralded here is not going to make the required difference."

Mr Lamont claimed Ms Robison's visit to Stenhousemuir would be "the latest propaganda from the SNP in an effort to convince us that their ludicrous plans to criminalise those under the age of 21 who buy alcohol are the way forward".

However he said the project in Stenhousemuir was accompanied by a crackdown on the existing legislation.

And he stated: "No-one is denying that Scotland's drink culture must be tackled – but the solution being heralded here is not going to make the required difference.

"The key is to target problem drinks and problem drinkers and a crackdown using existing laws to punish those who sell to under-age drinkers. The SNP's blanket approach simply does not do that."

Labour also wants to see tougher enforcement of the existing laws. Justice spokeswoman Pauline McNeill said:

"The SNP have mishandled their alcohol plans and they have become a huge distraction from the goal of trying to deal with under-age drinking.

"Labour want to see tough action against those who sell to under-18s including lifetime bans but banning over-18s from off-licenses is not the way forward."

Ministers are carrying out a consultation on their proposals and a Scottish Government spokeswoman said:

"We welcome all engagement with the consultation process, because alcohol misuse costs Scotland at least £2.25 billion every year – it's affecting our health service, our criminal justice system and our economy, and we need to take action now to rebalance our relationship with alcohol."

She added: "We've put forward a series of bold proposals for consultation to tackle the problem of alcohol misuse, including raising the off-sales alcohol purchase age to 21 – based upon a series of highly successful local pilots – as well as minimum pricing for alcohol and a crackdown on irresponsible off-sales promotions.

"When we have clear evidence of successful pilots – which carried the full support of local off-licence sellers, and resulted in a significant decline in anti-social behaviour, we have a responsibility to consult on spreading the benefits across Scotland."

And she said: "The job of government is to listen carefully to a breadth of views and all the interests at stake – and take decisions which promote the wider, national interest."

The full article contains 715 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 07 September 2008 2:19 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Alcohol & binge drinking
 
1

guenevere,

07/09/2008 14:43:43
Can I just point out Scotland does not have a government,it has a executive,there is only one "Government" in the UK and that is in westminster.
2

Sunniva,

Edinburgh 07/09/2008 14:50:44
Well they would say that wouldn't they?

Go SNP!
3

morris,

edinburgh 07/09/2008 14:54:28
It seems to me that opposition politicians have got solutions to absolutely everything, now that they are in opposition of course,none of which ever saw the drawing board,let alone left it whilst in government.

The SNP may not have all the answers,but we already know you never even asked the questions!

The job of an opposition is to put forward proposals of their own and argue the way forward,but crticism for the sake of it just reminds us why we removed you and will continue to do so.


The job of government is to try to get the job done, and we already know what Labour and Liberal Democrat achieved between them! SWEET SOD ALL
4

guenevere,

07/09/2008 14:54:49
2.Go SNP,my sentiments Exactly,please GO!
5

ptdoug,

07/09/2008 14:57:31
#1

Can I point out you are quite wrong.

Scotland has a GOVERNMENT ... and petty, bitter unionist attempts to belittle the Scottish GOVERNMENT simply backfire in the face of the sad little folk that keep trying to undermine the Scottish GOVERNMENT.

Can I also point out that in Scotland, unlike in England, the Scottish PEOPLE are sovereign... and we will call our elected Parliament whatever WE want to... without fear of any interference from south of the border.

There is only one Government in Scotland and that is in Holyrood.
6

guenevere,

07/09/2008 14:59:45
3. That is why the snp have cancelled a 50 million pound sports stadium that Labour had approved,as Hoy says, if you are serious about sport,put your money where your mouth is! as you can see,they are NOT serious.
7

guenevere,

07/09/2008 15:04:58
5.feisty! you can call yourself what you like,all i am saying is that by UK law there is only ONE government and that is at westminster.
8

yoric,

07/09/2008 15:06:31
Nanny state again!

If you really want to tackle Scotlands drink culture, you need to raise the legal purchasing age to 75.
9

morris,

edinburgh 07/09/2008 15:11:13
Guenevere

That is just a term of the Unionists choosing,which infers subserviance,and in devolved matters what we have in Edinburgh has the full power of government, and we are NOT subserviant in these matters therefore.

Either this applies or devolution is a sham.


What its called makes no difference to what powers it has in itself,but either a matter is devolved or it is not. Where it is devolved the use of the word government is wholly appropriate,since it is wholly responsible for what happens in that area of governance,and the majority of people in Scotland accept it as such,as witnessed by continued increases in the SNP standing.

Whether you agree or not we really could not care,and its a pointless remark anyway.

I presume you do actually reside in Scotland,in which case your views will be recorded in the ballot box same as mine,and thats as it should be,but the subserviance does NOT exist on devolved matters and therefore not at Holyrood since that is what they deal with.
10

Rabbies Wee Bruthir,

07/09/2008 15:19:40
Contradictions galore!!!

Raise the age of purchasing alcohol in 'offies' to 21,
status quo on buying drink in Pubs,clubs an hotels 18, so far so good.

Labour Party policy , Increase school leaving age to 17 years!

Labour Party Policy, SNP Policy lower voting age to wait for it!!!!!!!!
16!!!
so you can vote for the pillocks that have effectively locked you out of your basic freedoms to leave school at 15, get married at 16, buy tobacco products at 16, get killed fighting for your country at 17 and have a swally at 18!!

Is it not time that ALL political parties done a 'reality check', more to the point it's time that the people booted them in the Ed Balls for contemplating such Keech!!!!

There are already enough laws to cope with the alleged 'anti social behavior of our teenagers, all that is needed is enforcement of existing laws. Not more Keech on the 'Statute Book', but a kick in the pants of the Police Service and Baillie's for not enforcing current rules, quite simple really!!!
11

guenevere,

07/09/2008 15:19:40
Morris. You seem to be in a bit of a state over this,by the law of the UNITED KINGDOM of which you are a part of,there is only ONE government and that is at WESTMINSTER,sorry, but that is the law.
12

Rabbies Wee Bruthir,

07/09/2008 15:20:12
11 guenevere,07/09/2008 15:19:40
Keech!!!
13

guenevere,

07/09/2008 15:21:35
10. As from the 3rd of september,school leaving age in England is know 17.
14

Rabbies Wee Bruthir,

07/09/2008 15:26:48
11 guenevere,07/09/2008 15:19:40 and again at
13 guenevere,07/09/2008 15:21:35

So it then follows that outside of Westminster there is no government!!
Get a life you mong.
Every LA is a government,
as is every devolved legislative assembly and .....wait for it........
Parliament!!!
Scotland has a Parliament, a parliment is formed to govern, ergo Scotland has a Government Numpty!!!

Or do you subscribe to the erroneous Blairite belief that Scotland has an Executive and a Parish Cooncil?

as for your lack of comment at 13 , just what are you on?
15

Rosie,

Edinburgh 07/09/2008 15:29:03
This is not about raising drinking age to 18, rather it is, with help from all of us adults, about bringing the youngsters in to the pubs and inns where they can join us and learn how to drink sensibly.... not buy cheap drink in supermarkets and drink it round the corner. This is what our supermarkets are against.
16

guenevere,

07/09/2008 15:33:41
14.LOOK, you ignorant t@at, the law of the land says there is only one GOVERNMENT,and that is at WESTMINSTER,LIKE IT OR NOT,AS FOR MY POST @ 13,just pointing out that the school leaving age in England has risen to 17.
17

The Tin Man,

07/09/2008 15:50:08
More laws.

Less freedom.

I need a drink...

Because I can't think

For myself
18

Media 1,

cape town 07/09/2008 15:54:30
The problems in Britain relating to crime, drinking and disrespect at schools all goes back to the dole.

As long as there is a percentage of the population living of the genorosity of those who work for a living, there will never be social upliftment.

The dole is as disgusting a system as the majority of those who are on it. It must be scrapped or changed to a format that suits the tax payer and not the sponge.

People on the dole have no respect for themselves, therefore, if they were forced to do 40 hours community service per week for their money they would soon be on the road to recovery, as would the social order of many areas and suburbs.
19

Americanbob,

07/09/2008 16:12:25
As I have pointed out on another thread to this story the Scottish Government (sorry Lady Guenevere but that is what they call themselves) also propose to set a "minimum price" for alcohol, if so who is to profit from this (presumably) increased price? The retailers, or, is the Scottish Government intending to carry out collections of the excess cash (tax)? No one appears yet to have answered this question, or for whatever reason addressed it.
20

Rabbies Wee Bruthir,

07/09/2008 16:28:24
16 guenevere,07/09/2008 15:33:41

Stop right there Numpty!!!

What Law?

Show me or shut up Pill!!!

Or is it just part of your Rabid imagination!!!
21

Rabbies Wee Bruthir,

07/09/2008 16:34:16
16 guenevere,07/09/2008 15:33:41

From the Scotland Act 1998

"An Act to provide for the establishment of a Scottish Parliament and Administration and other changes in the government of Scotland; to provide for changes in the constitution and functions of certain public authorities; to provide for the variation of the basic rate of income tax in relation to income of Scottish taxpayers in accordance with a resolution of the Scottish Parliament; to amend the law about parliamentary constituencies in Scotland; and for connected purposes."
22

MacGillicuddy,

07/09/2008 16:34:48
#18
And you can tell ALL that living the life of a colonial white supremacist in SA . You constantly berate your native fellow SA countrymen and those native to your neighbours. You pretend to be a Scot, yet your family turned its back on Scotland to further no doubt its colonial aspirations. You claim to firmly support the pernicious 1707 Union but what you really support is the continuation of the ridiculous and utterly discredited British Empire of which Scotland is one of the last colonies.
Why don't you DO something useful in YOUR country of SA and leave those of us who actually live here to determine our own problems and future?
23

notanactivist,

The Border 07/09/2008 16:38:15
Oh give it up please. This idea is ridiculous, what right does the Government/Executive/whatever have in stopping Scots that want to drink heavily drinking heavily? We are putting it into OUR bodies, affecting OUR lives it has nothing to do with them.

24

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 07/09/2008 16:38:56

This must be one of the stupidest proposals ever, and you think it will stop the 18-21year old's from drinking,....

...THINK-AGAIN! sorry I forgot you cant think!

When I was in this age group and you tried this one on me, I would, 'go-out-my-way' to purchase all the darned booze I could!

IT IS ABSOLUTELY RIDICULIOUS!!

Have your own home with mortgage, 2.2 children and a respectible job, fight wars, vote, etc etc.

TAKE A HIKE! AND STICK IT WHERE THE SUN DONT SHINE!
25

morris,

edinburgh 07/09/2008 16:46:47
11
Guinevere

Scotland has a completely separate Legal system which predates the 1603 Union of the Crowns,never mind the 1707 Union of the Parliaments and as has already been pointed out to you,under Scots law, unlike in England and Wales, the sovereignty rests in the people themselves. The Act of Union of 1707 contains a clause which allows for the recall of the Scottish Parliament,as far as I am aware,since I have heard reference to it many times, and that is what happened in the Scotland Act ,the parliament was recalled.
It is devolved parliament certainly,

Whether the parliament is called a government or not is entirely the decision of that Scottish parliament to make, and it would appear to be with the people of Scotland clearly approving.
The Westminster parties may not agree,but they have no choice but accept the will of the people, since the government in Edinburgh has every bit as much legitimacy as the Westminster one does.
Of course if they want to challenge the independence of Scots Law,or take an even more confrontational stance against Scotland then so be it.

They know what the price will be!
It already is the last chance saloon for the UK and Westminster know that they live on borrowed time.
Now is definitely not a good time to antagonise the Scots.
26

guenevere,

07/09/2008 16:48:14
Scottish Executive renames itself. From BBC NEWS CHANNEL
The administration's legal name will still be the Scottish Executive Legally, under the Scotland Act, the title is still “Scottish Executive”. That phrase won’t vanish at the stroke of the first minister’s pen.
27

Kimg Arthur,

07/09/2008 16:52:31
Dear All,

Yesterday, we established that "guenevere" is actually French - that is why she hates both England and Scotland so much.

Guenevere - you said yesterday that you were going to "get me" and give me whats coming....but I still haven't had it. Can you at least let me knbow what colour it is, in case it clashes with the wallpaper?!! LOL.

What a pathetic individual. I am a proud Englishman and would be happy to see Scotland regain her independence.

Thank you.
28

Kimg Arthur,

07/09/2008 16:55:08
#19 - there is, as far as I can see, little point in using logic and evidence with this guenevere person - she is a grade Z racist from the lowest bucket of society.
29

ptdoug,

07/09/2008 17:06:06
Just came back from Yystad,Sweden. The Swedish have a similar severe problem with alchohol as Scotland.

They have changed the law whereby you have to be 20 years old or older to purchase and consume alchohol.

Take away alchohol is only available at government run stores.

It has by all accounts been a success so far in reducing alchohol related problems.

Of course there are ways, if you are determined, to aquire alchohol. But the number of people who do so is still a vast reduction in the number of underage drinkers aquiring alchohol in, say, Scotland under OUR current laws.

I lived in Canada, New Brunswick and British Columbia, where both these Provinces ran similar legislation with alchohol being available only at government run Liquor Stores.

In many States of the USA it is illegal, period, for under 21s to purchase OR consume alchohol.

Neither Canada nor the USA has anywhere near the appalling record of alchohol related violence and disease as Scotland.

There seems to be a lot of bleating by people whos only agenda seems, yet again, to obstruct the SNP governments radical (for Scotland at least) initiative to finaly attempt to get to grips with the alchohol related issues which blight much of Scottish society and is also such a burden on Scottish taxpayers.

If anyone of you have any BETTER ideas... Lets for goodness sake hear them.
30

ptdoug,

07/09/2008 17:10:39
Geunevere,

Give it up.

It is of no matter what you think.

No one cares.

It is now the Scottish Government and will never be reffered to as anything else... except, of cours, by small minded, bitter little unionists that can't accept the new reality.

By the way, just out of interest and, of course, to stitch you up further... show us what law you are referring to when you CLAIM that BY LAW there can only be one body reffered to as "Government" in the UK

PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
31

ptdoug,

07/09/2008 17:12:30
Is it true Geunevere....????... that you are a cheese eating surrender monkey?
32

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 07/09/2008 17:22:50
#32 You are obviously an ignorant racist.
33

Kimg Arthur,

07/09/2008 17:23:08
yup - guenevere admitted yesterday that she is french - makes sense - why else would she hate our islands SO much?? She then tried to say she was actually half Scottish half English and had moved to Scotland ten years ago, but the truth was already out.

Just so everyone knows.
34

Publius,

Girvan 07/09/2008 17:24:02
#15 Rosie,Edinburgh

You write: "This is not about raising drinking age to 18, rather it is, with help from all of us adults, about bringing the youngsters in to the pubs and inns where they can join us and learn how to drink sensibly.... not buy cheap drink in supermarkets and drink it round the corner. This is what our supermarkets are against."

I think you are mistaken. There are a great many Scottish adults who don't drink sensibly in pubs, especially adults in their 20s. You surely don't want youngsters to copy them.

Supermarkets are not the main culprits in selling drink to underage people. It is small convenience stores that need alcohol sales to survive.
35

Publius,

Girvan 07/09/2008 17:30:11
#30 ptdoug

You write "If anyone of you have any BETTER ideas... Lets for goodness sake hear them"

One idea might be to enforce existing legislation. Selling alcohol to minors is an offence. Serving drink to people under the influence of drink is an offence. Being drunk and disorderly in a public place is an offence. Threatening hospital staff on a Friday or Saturday night is a whole bundle of offences.

If the Scottish Government was serious about combatting alcoholism we would see several hundred prosecutions every week. One more law that won't be enforced is damn silly.

36

morris,

edinburgh 07/09/2008 17:50:14
28

Thank You for that contribution K.A

It is only right and proper that the majority wish of the people living in Scotland is what happens,as indeed should happen in England Wales and where possible NorthernIreland also.
We accept the United Kingdom, as long as we have not or cannot established that the majority view has changed,and those who support the Union are entitled to do so, but equally should accept the decalred wish for change if that is what transpires. Those who are not resident or qualify to vote have an opinion which they are free to express,but we have the right to respond also.
The people entitled to vote are the ones who matter of course.(Opinions matter but votes count if you get my drift)

Scotland's legal system is still intact and the sovereignty of the people cannot be challenged.
Westminster cannot tell us what to do.Their is no higher authority in Scotland than the people of Scotland.
We have some laws which are common to the entire United Kingdom certainly,and therefore apply in Scotland also but we do not have a common legal system.

I think I am correct in saying that the Acts of Union of 1706 and 1707 (there were acts in both parliaments to create a combined parliament)declared that the law of Scotland remains intact for evermore.
The Scotland Act does declare that Scotland remains a constituent member country of the United Kingdom and the Parliament may not pass laws to change this however, but since the right to recall the Scottish Parliament previously exists,it refers to both a partial recall (devolution) and a recall in its entirety,if that is the wish of the people.

As far as I am concerned the law of Scotland remains and the sovereignty is enshrined in her people,and Westminster only has power over Scotland as long as we wish it so,and which aspects are those which we have agreed to.
The Scottish Government exists if the Scottish Parliament says it does with the authority of the people. If they want to chall
37

guenevere,

07/09/2008 17:55:00
KING ARTHUR. PLEASE CARRY ON WITH YOUR LIES. The scotsman kindly supplied me with your E-mail address after your abusive posts on friday and again yesterday,you will learn that you are not immune from the law of the land just because you hide behind a pseudonym.
38

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 07/09/2008 17:56:08

"He added: "The Scottish Government have claimed that it is their job to lead, but a good leader also listens."

Problem is! dogmatic Muppet's have NO ears!
39

morris,

edinburgh 07/09/2008 17:56:50
37 continued
The Scottish Government exists if the Scottish Parliament says it does with the authority of the people. If they want to challenge its legitimacy go ahead I say.


40

morris,

edinburgh 07/09/2008 18:00:38
38 I sincerely doubt that Scotsman Publications would reveal the e mail address of a contributor..


Is this true?
If it is I think SCOTSMAN have a lot of explaining to do,and if not Guinevere does.
41

Kimg Arthur,

07/09/2008 18:00:56
LOL!!!! Did they?

Now, which land would I be the subject of, pray, tell. England? Scotland? France? We don't use the Droit Penal here, you know!!! LOL!!!!!

~Does everyone know about the disgusting behaviour of a teaching assistant in the Tees Valley???
42

lilywhite,

borders 07/09/2008 18:01:09
Could any of the Unionists who are against these proposals please tell us what their soloutions to the problems of alchohol in Scotland are.
If access is restricted it is bound to have some benifit it is harsh on all the sensible young drinkers but lots of laws are harsh on the sensible majority. It is fair to say that support for the SNP has genrally been quite high in this age range so it is not some kind of vote winning gimmock (aka Brown/Blair)
So unless you are prepared to make some constructive suggestions shut up and let the Scottish GOVERNMENT get on with making Scotland a healthier wealthier safer country to live in
43

morris,

edinburgh 07/09/2008 18:01:22
41 Can you prove it does not?
44

Kimg Arthur,

07/09/2008 18:05:32
Guenevere - this isn't France, you know. We here in England and Scotland have standards...and for that reason, you get pilloried for your abhorrant views.
45

MacGillicuddy,

07/09/2008 18:25:38
#45 Morris

Your thesis at 37 is quite correct (and it is up to sm753 to disprove it!). It is this sovereignty which confers the title "citizen" (and not the English "subject" ) on Scots.

Hence in England there exists the Queen (or King) of ENGLAND but here we have the Queen (or King) of SCOTS.

[ But I am glad I am a republican ].

46

blackley,

Edinburgh 07/09/2008 18:32:33
No point in introducing yet another law just for the publicity value. Just enforce the laws that already exist and make sure there are enough officers available to do so.
You won't cure Scotland's drinking problem by tinkering about. a whole sea change in attitude is required. Salmond knows this of course.
47

radge dug,

Dùn Eideann 07/09/2008 18:54:11
DRUG DEALERS CRITICISE POLICE RAIDS

Today, drug dealers have criticised anti-drug laws saying 'they just don't work, people want them anyway'. They were supported by the National Union of Junkies who said that the nation's druggies had a human right to get wasted.

The campaign intensified as calls grew to disband the police and legal system in the face of their inability to create a society with a 0% crime rate.

Labour's newspaper, 'The Scotsman', welcomed any opportunity to snipe at any attempt by the SNP to do something positive.
48

radge dug,

07/09/2008 18:55:52
So, basically, what TF have the Scotsman and Labour done to solve the problem?

No one measure will work but this, alongside other efforts could work. It's worth a try.
49

radge dug,

07/09/2008 18:56:01
So, basically, what TF have the Scotsman and Labour done to solve the problem?

No one measure will work but this, alongside other efforts could work. It's worth a try.
50

ptdoug,

07/09/2008 19:01:54
Publius #36

"One idea might be to enforce existing legislation. Selling alcohol to minors is an offence. Serving drink to people under the influence of drink is an offence. Being drunk and disorderly in a public place is an offence. Threatening hospital staff on a Friday or Saturday night is a whole bundle of offences."

Absolutely agree with you 100%. The law, as you described, has not and is not being enforced consistently and robustly enough... if at all.

This has to be a priority and should be acted upon immeadiatly.... and if done in conjunction with the Scottish Governments proposed action plan, I truly think we would see a dramatic reduction in alchohol related violence, anti-social behaviour and alchohol related illness.

Surely this could only be benificial to Scotland and should be supported right across the political spectrum.

And screw the alchohol trades bottom line profits.
51

The Spook in Leith,

07/09/2008 19:22:19
Alcohol misuse costs Scotland at least £2.25 billion every year !!!! WHAT!!!!!, That is 3% of our GDP god dam it. The way to solve Scotland's alcohol problem is by closing pubs,clubs and other drink venues who continually serve over intoxicated menaces. I know the SNP are trying to solve the problem (something Labour were spinelles to do themselves) but i don't agree with this method of hiking up the age limit, it wont work and the SNP risk alienating younger voters, something this paper and the pro union fanatics will be dancing to and exacerbating.

A lot of Scotlands drink culture stems from poverty and if this areas is tackled head on then we will see some progress. We also have this drink as much as you can attitude when we go out on the town and this can lead to health problems later on in life.

Don't get me wrong, i like a drink or 10 but i know how to handle it and certainly don't contribute to the £2.5 billion that alcohol abuse costs the nation.

I would like to see more privet companies and in particular the drinks industry take an active roll on this issue and help fund some initiatives along with the Gov to take alcohol abuse.

Now im just going to pour my self a nice Millers to watch soccer aid, Come on the rest of the world, good luck England.
52

High IQ,

07/09/2008 19:25:42
Are the SNP going to start telling citizens when their children should switch off the television and go to bed?

I would like to retain freedoms for the next generation. If someone breaks the law why not charge them?

It seems to me that the SNP have decrimalised drunken yobs and are refusing to provide the 1,000 police officers that Scotland desperately needs.

If you break the law, then you can't be caught by a non-existant police officer and even if you are caught, the SNP have made it your right not to go to court and you most certainly won't be jailed or have a freedom taken away from you.

If you are law abiding, you will have a freedom taken away from you.

The SNP are as barking mad as Labour.
53

The Spook in Leith,

07/09/2008 19:26:23
Sorry about the typos but what i lack on the spelling front i more than make up for in bed and that is important to me.
54

The Spook in Leith,

07/09/2008 19:28:30
Fu#k can you believe it ? nobody posts for 25 minutes yet when i post my second post in accordance with my first post some cu#t posts and splits both my posts up, fu#k sake..
55

High IQ,

07/09/2008 19:28:59
The Spook in Leith

You are a prime example of a lunatic lefty that is rotting this country.

"Initiatives?" Why not bring justice back? Charge them, prosecute them, if they do it again give them community service, if they do it a third time, jail them.

It is the easiest thing in the world to abide by the law.
56

The Spook in Leith,

07/09/2008 19:31:34
#59

No mate it is dross like you that are ruining this county by splitting up both my post, now get to fu#k coz im watching the football you stinking rat.
57

High IQ,

07/09/2008 19:37:49
The Spook in Leith,

Charming. It is cavemen like you who should stay clear of alcohol. Your obviously a bit mentally disturbed, perhaps the SNP could do some real legislating and make it legal for your psychiatrist to give you a life ban from having a pint. If you break that order then you get sectioned.

Let's stop caring for the scum who are ruining our communities and city centers. Let's jail them, or section them if they can't behave. As the article suggests, it'd be far cheaper to cage them.

PEYNN

None of your business, the forum rules specifically tell people not to disclose that.
58

Kimg Arthur,

07/09/2008 19:53:57
High IQ was posting pictures of himherself earlier - nasty:http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/eantimo1/chick_wit_dick_in_white.jpg
59

,

07/09/2008 19:58:51
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60

High IQ,

07/09/2008 20:03:08
63-65

Who do you think the 'average man' would judge to be mentally disturbed with only aid of your and my postings to decide?

I feel sorry for your grand-parents, they obviously had to watch as their own failed off-spring brought up someone even more digusting, unintelligible and socially incompetant than them.

Do you not feel any shame abusing a complete stranger? It's a sad sign of the times that thugs such as your disgusting selves are allowed free to abuse others.
61

,

07/09/2008 20:10:36
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62

morris,

edinburgh 07/09/2008 20:21:33
47

A republican ! Oh dear That means there are two of us!

63

,

07/09/2008 20:22:00
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64

JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 07/09/2008 20:34:04
"Labour also wants to see tougher enforcement of the existing laws. Justice spokeswoman Pauline McNeill said:"

Labour want to do no such thing and they have done 2 things over the last 10 years which have made Boozing much worse......

Firstly, changing Licensing Laws in favour of the Drinks industry, which makes it much more difficult for local councils to object to the opening of new pubs/clubs.

And secondly the notorious 24 hour Drinking laws which no one could possibly want.....except of course the Drinks Barons themselves.

Both these changes, which New Labour claimed would usher in a European style cafe culture instead gave us Binge Drinking.
65

Tobytoo,

Southington, U.S.A. 07/09/2008 20:37:46
It looks to me that most of the comments between #56 - 72 have been posted by some sick puppies.
66

,

07/09/2008 20:38:40
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67

High IQ,

07/09/2008 20:41:16
JoeMcT,

You are a prime specimen of the lunatic left.

Laws do not give you binge drinkers, wreckless humans do. You can already enjoy a drink 24 hours a day if you know where to go. Casinos and hotels are examples of these.

The real problem is the SNP decriminalising minor crimes, such as loitering, minor assaults, graffitti, littering, theft... etc.

There are also not enough Police Officers.

So you see, the SNP are to blame. Binge-drinking is not the problem, crime is the problem. But the SNP (in their wisdom) have decided to legalise that and promote it.

Sure as Labour took Thatcherism on to new lows, now the SNP will take the Labour sof on crime policy to a new low.

Just read the posts from 8/10 cats. That is the type of shameless low-life that the SNP want to wrap in cotton wool.
68

,

07/09/2008 20:50:57
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69

High IQ,

07/09/2008 21:07:47
Kenny MacAskill is clearly stupid.

You have a problem, minor and frequent crime committed by a minority of people.

The SNP solution, Police all 5,000,000 citizens and every law-abiding shop keeper.

How do you free up these resource to police those not part of the problem? You do that by telling parts of the justice system already tackling the minority to leave them alone.

Scotland really needs to wake up and start voting in people who can analyse problems and come up with solutions that target the problem.
70

unbiased,

Erehwon o Elddim 07/09/2008 21:10:59
The commentators on here are neither SNP nor Unionist supporters, they are sad people with nothing better to do on a Sunday afternoon but to post filth and inanities just to get an audience that they would not get down the pub or anywhere else that they inhabit, because no-one listens to them......IGNORE THEM ALL!!!!!!!
71

High IQ,

07/09/2008 21:12:43
Kenny MacAskill is a typically stupid nationalist.

You have a problem, underage drinkers of alcohol.

You could use the police to catch them, confiscate the can/bottle, read its batch number and match that to the local store selling the alcohol to the teenager and then revoke their license...

... or you could police every branch of Tescos/Asda/Sainsburies/Victorine Wine/Haddows in areas where the problem is not as prevelant.

Good ol' SNP. Showing how average intellects behave.
72

morris,

edinburgh 07/09/2008 21:12:53
79

You cannot say that anybody is or is not a supporter or member of the SNP in certainty,since they could be anybody purporting to be anybody.The only definite stolen identity that I have ever seen was a Unionist.

Am2 is a moniker you may be familiar with.Dont accuse the SNP and suggest its confined to them You cannot possibly know such a thing.

For the record these comments coming from 8/10 cats (with a comma) may be two different people. Im sure the original is Pro Union and uses no comma.I am not certain who anybody is,although Kimba is instantly recogniseable but only because she is so stupid it does not matter which name she uses.

Anybody can be offensive. You are suggesting you know that which you cannot possibly know.

In some cases you may be correct,but that is not by design or intention.
73

morris,

edinburgh 07/09/2008 21:14:03
82 Obviously a high IQ does not mean you can spell !
74

Red Etin,

07/09/2008 21:15:53
Cardas co-ordinator Tom French said:

"I have a vested interest in selling booze to young people - have a look at my website and you will see why"
75

Red Etin,

07/09/2008 21:19:49
http://www.tomfrench.org.uk/

"Developed the Library Bar which delivers more of what we want and makes double what middle bar did before each week. "
76

,

07/09/2008 21:20:49
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77

morris,

edinburgh 07/09/2008 21:27:08
87
Not true.
I have myself been accused of being a paedophile but I cannot recall the exact date.I just treated it with the contempt that it deserved of course, but I agree it should not happen. I do not assume everybody supporting the Union is confined to one party or even a member of one.
Stupidity is not the preserve if any one party etc.
78

,

07/09/2008 21:37:17
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79

Scotish Exile,

07/09/2008 22:27:24
why the hell should we pay any attention to what the National Union of Students Scotland and the Scottish Youth Parliament have to say. If you are interested in politics at a young age, you must be a numpty and should be placed in a secure unit!
80

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/09/2008 22:46:24
I think it's the right policy.
81

Col. Blimp­IV*,

07/09/2008 23:09:38
I agree with High IQ at #78 and #82.

I also agree that 8/10 of the plagues of Egypt should be visited on him at Gods earliest possible convenience.
82

Col. Blimp­IV*,

07/09/2008 23:17:10
I wonder where the Dane Bramged Cider-Pete is hiding?

Not like him to pass up an opportunity to have a pop at SuperKenny.
83

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/09/2008 00:25:13
SM753 was asking about the sovereignty of the Scottish people and where the concept comes from. As a graduate in Constitutional Law I would refer him to the judgment we were taught at Aberdeen University from the case of McCormick v Lord Advocate (1953 SC 396) Session Cases of 1953 p 396, where the then Lord President Cooper stated that the English concept of the Sovereigty of Parliament (ie the Queen, with the Lords and Commons)had no counterpart in Scots Law. Also Laws of the old Scots Parliament remained in force only for as long as circumstances made them relevevant and they could fall into 'desuetude' if the people did not find them of relevance and thus fell into disuse. This was not a concept of the English Law
84

notanactivist,

The Borders 08/09/2008 15:08:11
Why do so few people care about personal freedoms on this board? It is our right to use and abuse our bodies as we see fit, if an 18-year old wants to pour booze down their throat that is their choice. As long as their behaviour doesn't harm others, which in most cases it doesn't, why is it a problem.

Those people who do commit crimes while under the influence can be charged with assault, beach of the peace, civil disobedience, criminal damage, indecent exposure or indeed any activity which sees them breaking the law.

So tell me again, why do we need this piece of freedom-restricting legislation?
85

Calvinist,

08/09/2008 15:35:07
"a Scottish Government spokeswoman said" Who is this eminence grise who always answers on behalf of the Scottish Government? Sounds a bit like that ghastly man who gave us updates on the Falklands War. Why can't ministers answer directly? Are they too posh or important to speak to us plebs.

 

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