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Curb on tobacco sales 'will hit small shops'



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Published Date: 22 May 2008
THE days of the corner shop may be numbered, small business representatives warned after the Scottish Government announced a crackdown on cigarette sales.
The Federation of Small Businesses in Scotland said plans to tackle underage smoking announced by Shona Robison, the Scottish health minister, yesterday risked driving many small shops out of business.

Under the proposals, shops will have to put c
igarettes under the counter or in a back room and customers will be forced to ask for them.

Ms Robison also said packets of ten cigarettes would be banned and legal controls of tobacco sales would be updated.

She also intends to introduce a tobacco licensing scheme, similar to the one for alcohol.

The moves form part of a drive costing £9 million over three years to discourage young people from smoking.

The minister told MSPs that although tobacco advertising was banned in 2002, there were "growing concerns" that public displays of cigarettes in shops hindered efforts to "denormalise" smoking.

"Giving cigarettes pride of place in shops sits uncomfortably with our ambition to create a climate in which everything possible is done to dissuade people, particularly children and young people, from smoking," she said.

Andy Wilcox, FSB Scotland policy convener, said: "Many shops are designed around a secure cigarette counter to ensure cigarettes cannot get into the hands of those under the age of 18. Forcing these businesses to spend thousands of pounds redesigning their shops could well be the end of the corner shop that often plays such a vital role in our communities."

He added: "The burden of any sort of positive licensing scheme is likely to fall on the shoulders of Scotland's small businesses."

Many of the measures have already been proposed in a private member's bill by Nationalist MSP Christine Graham. She also wants to ban cigarette vending machines.



The full article contains 312 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 May 2008 9:58 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Tobacco
 
1

walter,

22/05/2008 00:41:44
Why not make it illegal.
Make it illegal to buy, sell, produce, move, use or invest in tobacco products.
To hell with the fact that it will put 10s if not 100s of 1000 out of work and more jails will be needed to lock up those who refuse to give up their habit and taxes will plummet who cares.
2

Mist001,

Marseille 22/05/2008 01:48:31
I absolutely agree with No.1

I am a smoker but I've managed to cut down from 40 a day to 10 a day. Not perfect I know, but it's an improvement.

Instead of these stupid ideas of selling tobacco under the counter, or forcing people to ask for it specifically, why not just ban it outright?

After all, it is a drug.

Michael.
3

Rollo Tommasi,

22/05/2008 02:01:08
Some good proposals here - like the proposed licensing scheme, better enforcement of tobacco sales laws and increased investment in health education. And if fewer people are choosing to buy cigarettes, then I say "good" even if shops suffer as a result.

But is the evidence really there that banning packs of 10 or public displays of tobacco will help keep youngsters away from cigarettes and help adults kick the habit? If any of these measures achieve nothing except inconvenience retailers and smokers who understand the risks of what they're doing but have chosen to continue smoking anyway, then that's not reason enough for legislating for them.
4

an interested party,

22/05/2008 08:33:22
small shops and businesses may well lose out but look at the opportunity for black marketeers who will not only sell you fags but perhaps a stolen dvd to watch whilst you take the drugs they also sold you in a simple hassle free transaction and all with instant free credit secured on the use of your legs

forward planning never a government strong point but they have got it right this time
5

an interested party,

22/05/2008 08:37:15
9 million over 3 years!!!!!

thats like almost 50 p per smoker per year on this scheme

doesnt sound so committed when they raise well over a billion a year from tobacco sales

rhetoric
6

DeniseX,

22/05/2008 09:05:47
Who cares about the employers and employees of small shops, Post Offices and pubs? What concerns me more is, if tobacco was to be made illegal, the nice people at ASH would be made redundant and the chief exectutive would lose her £500,000 plus per annum 'job'.
7

Royalty,

Zandvoort 22/05/2008 09:32:20
So kids wont be able to see ciggies when they visit the shops but they will still have rows of skud books glaring down at them.

Only in Scotland.

8

Pipe smoker,

Montrose 22/05/2008 09:40:49
So, under this plan, predicated on Orwellian 'denormalising' the few remaining traditional tobacconists will have to disguise their premises as something else, eg interior decorators - and/or keep their windows clear of stock - or full of shaving brushes?
9

Big Eddie,

Behind the bike shed 22/05/2008 10:03:58
Re: Pipe smoker #8.

I know that in other parts of the world where similar policies have been introduced, there have been exemptions for specialist tobacconists shops, on the understanding that their premises are restricted to the over-18s. If all they sell is tobacco, there's no reason for children ever to be in there.

I'd be quite comfortable with such a compromise; after all, this is a youth smoking prevention measure, not designed to target existing adult smokers, in spite of what some of the posters above might think.

DeniseX #6 - even in her wildest dreams, the chief exec of ASH doesn't earn even a fraction of this much money. The job was advertised last year, and I seem to recall that the salary was about £45k or thereabouts. Which for the head of an organisation employing 25 staff, isn't all that much. But don't let the facts stand in the way of your fantasies ...
10

John Yorky Boy,

UK 22/05/2008 10:09:32
Banning packs of 10 in Ireland increased the rate of smoking...I know people, perhaps like Michael (Mist001) who cut down to 10 a day by only buying a pack of 10 a day...being forced to buy more doesn't help.
11

Regal Bankie,

Clydebank 22/05/2008 10:27:39
I'm still waiting on all the good ideas the politicans have to tackle Scotland's drinking culture.

Thankfully in the meantime the Buckfast and MD will still be on display.
12

G,

dundy 22/05/2008 10:28:47
Can't see how hiding tobacco from view will affect shop viability....the addicts will ask for their poisons...
13

,

22/05/2008 11:05:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

David from New Mills,

Pleasantville, U.K. 22/05/2008 11:39:51
#13, Petrol Man.
P.h. has little to fear, as he's pretty extraordinary as it is, and still manages to spot Nazis all over the place!
15

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 22/05/2008 11:48:59
Go away Goebbels
16

Big Eddie,

Edinburgh 22/05/2008 11:55:05
Petrol man, chill the f!ck out, will you? And what is this curious obsession with Nazism? Are you a closet Stalinist? He enjoyed a smoke, you know.

The fact is that you can go on buying your tabs as normal, you just won't be able to look at the packet first. Is that such a big deal for you?

As long as smokers know what they want to buy, this doesn't affect them one iota. So why are they getting their knickers in such a twist?
17

,

22/05/2008 12:07:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

David from New Mills,

Pleasantville, U.K. 22/05/2008 12:11:39
#15, Petrol man.
No thank you.
Apart from my inability to take Petrol Man at all seriously, in what way do I pose him any threat? More bad childhood dreams on his part, perhaps?
19

an interested party,

22/05/2008 12:27:53
No 9
£45 k is 9/100 s of 500K
a fraction no less

20

David from New Mills,

Pleasantville, U.K. 22/05/2008 12:44:28
If advertising has such an inconsequential effect on smokers' desire to feed their addiction, why do the tobacco companies spend so much money on it, and why do corner shops and supermarkets feel the need to have such eye catching displays to push these products?
Drop the enticing adverts and keep the cancer sticks in a big plain cardboard box for the nicotine junkies and everyone would gain, apart from the shopfitters.
Corner shops have been in decline for decades. Propping up their sales with tobacco wil hardly save them.
21

Poetess50,

22/05/2008 13:14:21
I SMOKE. AND I'M NOT QUITTING...I DON'T CARE WHAT SHONA ROBISON OR THE REST OF THE NANNY STATE DOES!!!
22

David from New Mills,

Pleasantville, U.K. 22/05/2008 13:23:44
#21,Poetess50.
Her freedom, her choice, but can't she master the shift key yet?
23

Yonthing!,

22/05/2008 13:55:04
Next they'll be suggesting that the Police shouldn't arrest drug dealers at primary school gates as it's threatening their income.
24

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

22/05/2008 13:55:17
I'm a Smoker/ Recreational Smoker but I'd willingly give up if they, like they should, banned tobacco in all forms.

Tax the Rich to replace the revenue lost from baccy - sorted!!

No Tobacco could well mean no Marijuana cos that would then be a really expensive habit, what with splifs an bongs being pure Gear you'd get through it ever so fast . . . .
25

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 22/05/2008 14:00:57
#18:

I see the cap fits, David.

Please stop boring us all... Pretty please with little bells on????
26

Denis,

22/05/2008 14:01:12
Nowhere in the article is there any hint that this may be coming from the EU, but I'm 99% sure that's the case. Why? Not because I've got any special inside knowledge, but simply because I've taken the trouble to look on the EU's own website:

http://europa.eu/index_en.htm

and quickly found "Health Determinants: Lifestyle":

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/s03003.htm

and from there:

"Prevention of smoking"

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/cha/c11574.htm

Meaning that Shona Robinson is no more than a mouthpiece for Brussels.

Of course, there are always some people who say "But I agree with that, it's a good idea". What they don't realise is that IT DOESN'T MATTER IN THE SLIGHTEST WHETHER THEY AGREE WITH IT OR NOT, because it's already been decided in Brussels and therefore IT'S NOT UP FOR DEBATE.
27

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 22/05/2008 14:10:25
#16:

Eddie,

The parallels with nazism are real. Obviously I'm not talking about concentration camps or the the like, but the way that smokers are being treated nowadays and the vilification of anything to do with tobacco or anyone who associates themselves with it is absolutely typical of the way the nazi party treated certain groups of people in the early to mid 1930s.

They were lies then and they are lies now. They are even starting to use similar terminology to the early nazis. Terms like "de-normalise", "socially unacceptable" and "...would be forced..." all smack of nazism and I really struggle to believe that the majority of people cannot see it.

You ask if I am a closet Stalinist. Nothing could be further from the truth. I loathe all extremist politics. All I want is to be left alone to lead my life as I see fit, without having to suffer vilification because I happen to like or do something and without having to jump through hoops to continue to pursue my pleasures. Neither do I expect to have to hide myself away.

This isn't just about smoking. The next in line for the nazi treatment is almost certainly giong to be drinking. then who knows what it will be after that. for christs sake, stand up for your rights and the rights of others now before it is too late.
28

Spicey,

Glasgow 22/05/2008 14:12:29
Some interesting ideas, like introducing licensing, but some bloody aweful ones too, like making shop owners find a back room they dont have.

I'm still awaiting what they plan to do about the worst drug that we have on our streets. Alcohol ruins more lives than any other drug but little is done about it. Regrading the personally (potentially) harmful but socially unharmful Cannibis to class B when alcohol, which is highly destructive both personally and socially, remains legal and encouraged sums up governments hypocrasy.
29

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 22/05/2008 14:16:50
Denis,

The key words in the articles you cite are "urges that" and "recommends that" as opposed to "are to..."

It is NOT set in stone by any manner of means. None of this is. In most cases, the EU can only advise member states, not dictate policy to them.

If we wanted to scrap the rediculous smoking ban tomorrow and roll the clock back 20 years (which is what we should do) then the EU could not stop us from doing so.
30

Denis,

22/05/2008 14:17:08
EU's alcohol strategy:

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/cha/c11564b.htm

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/cha/c11564a.htm

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/cha/c11564.htm

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/cha/c11566.htm
31

Denis,

Maidenhead 22/05/2008 14:25:29
http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/cha/c11506.htm

"Resolution of the Council and the Ministers for Health of the Member States, meeting within the Council of 18 July 1989 on banning smoking in places open to the public [Official Journal C 189 of 26.07.1989]."

"The Member States are called on to take the following measures by introducing legislation or by other appropriate means ... "

"Conclusions of the Council and the Ministers for Health, meeting within the Council of 27 May 1993 on the response to the Resolution on banning smoking in places open to the public [Official Journal C 174 of 25.06.1993].

In these conclusions, the Council reminds the Member States that they are called upon to report to the Commission every two years on the measures taken to ban smoking in places open to the public."

# 29 - you are technically correct, insofar as only Regulations, Directives and Decisions are legally binding, while Recommendations are not. However once a policy or measure has been agreed, eg by "the Council and the Ministers for Health, meeting within the Council" as above, the decision has been taken and it becomes politically very difficult for any Member State government to go back on it.
32

Tellen1,

22/05/2008 15:52:17
#27

"All I want is to be left alone to lead my life as I see fit, without having to suffer vilification because I happen to like or do something and without having to jump through hoops to continue to pursue my pleasures. Neither do I expect to have to hide myself away."

Do you therefore believe that everyone should be left alone to lead their lives as they see fit. Should paedophiles be allowed to continue to pursue their pleasures and not suffer villification because they happen to like having sex with children? Should rapists be allowed to be left alone to go and rape people because they enjoy doing it? Where do you draw the line?
33

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 22/05/2008 16:41:12
#32:

My! You do have a vivid imagination!

I fail to see how there is even the remotest link between rape, murder, child abuse and someone lighting up a fag with their pint of beer inside the pub.

Can you please elaborate?

And don't even mention passive smoking. It doesn't exist.
34

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 22/05/2008 16:43:22
#31:

"...and it becomes politically very difficult for any Member State government to go back on it."

Which is why John Major fought tooth and nail to retain our right of veto. Labour let all this go to pot.
35

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 22/05/2008 17:05:19
#17 Mac Power

"Here's why it's a good idea, 13,000 deaths and 33,500 hospital admissions each year at a cost of £200m to the NHS."

Annul revenue from tobacco duty: £9billion

Cost of musculoskeletal injuries to the NHS per year: £590 million
Annual sports tax revenue: ????
36

Tellen1,

22/05/2008 17:08:30
#33

If you read my post correctly you will see that I don't make any mention of a link between smoking and rape, murder etc.

My post relates to you stating that you wish to live your life how you see fit and to be left alone to do what you enjoy doing.

I merely wish to discover whether you believe this freedom of choice should be only extended to the freedom to smoke in a public place or whether paedophiles, rapists, drink drivers should also have the freedom to do what they enjoy without any villification too?

As for your ridiculous statement that passive smoking doesn't exist there have been numerous reports on the existence of passive smoking from groups such as the World Health Organisation, US dept of health, US Surgeon General, International Agency for Research on Cancer etc.

There is no point referring you to any of the above reports however because you are obviously not going to believe passive smoking exists whatever evidence you are presented with, you are like the creationists who still believe adam and eve were the first people on earth, or the anti-semites who still say the nazis didn't murder 6m jews, despite the obvious evidence to the contrary.
37

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 22/05/2008 17:34:55
#36

Did you study the reports you referred to? Here is a reference to some giving a different view.

http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/second.htm

Unfortunately, they are probably as biased as the ones you refer to.

But I guess there's no point discussing this with you. You are obviously not going to change your opinion, no matter what evidence there is to the contrary. You're like those creationists who cling to their belief because they find it comforting and it provides an object of hatred for their ignorant bile.

Gee, I can't believe I said that. Did you feel as stupid as I did?
38

Rollo Tommasi,

22/05/2008 19:19:31
Selgovae

You can assure yourself that the Forces website is indeed biased. Very, very selective in the cases it reports. And misleading too. For instance, they're totally wrong to say "Readers must keep in mind that statistical risks smaller than 200% are not even considered by serious science – especially when one cannot even be sure of what has been measured – as it is always and only the case for passive smoke." They cynically misquoted the words of scientific experts to come up with that claim.

Compare that with the 2002 Monograph by the International Agency for Research on Cancer and the 2004 report of the UK's Scientific Committee on Tobacco & Health (SCOTH). Far more comprehensive assessments of recent available evidence. Far more balanced in their reporting. And clear in their conclusions that passive smoking increases people's risks of contracting lung cancer and heart disease.
39

David from New Mills,

Pleasantville, U.K. 22/05/2008 19:57:14
#25, Petrol Man.
So which of p.h.'s caps would that be? The peaked cap of bully boy Ernst Röhm's S.A. mob, perhaps?
P.h.'s boredom threshold is merely a feature of his concentration powers, or lack of them.
Oh silly me, the little bells should have given me a clue! He was referring of course to his jester's hat. The one with the bells, and the three pointed bits round his face!
40

David from New Mills,

22/05/2008 20:04:43
#32, Tellen1.
"All I want is to be left alone to lead my life as I see fit, without having to suffer vilification because I happen to like or do something and without having to jump through hoops to continue to pursue my pleasures. Neither do I expect to have to hide myself away."
Petrol Man seems unable to grasp the fact that he has no need to "jump through hoops" to pursue his pleasures, simply to satisfy his drug addiction other than in enclosed public places. Nor does he have to "hide himself away" in the process, as lack of his amusing contributions would surely deprive us all of so much undiluted amusement.

41

DeniseX,

23/05/2008 19:10:31
Alcohol is a far more dangerous drug. When will shops and pubs be forced to keep alcohol under the counter?
42

Stef,

Edinburgh 24/05/2008 18:14:43
I see more we have some more junk propaganda, from our resident civil servants, David and Rollo, pls don't treat these anti people fanatics with any credibility. They are here posting and rebuking people on behalf of their sponsors, just a couple of nasty little men serving their masters. This government has turned this country into a real heaven for small minded and petty intolerants, of which the above 2 are a perfect example. I saw postings from this Rollo fanatic, in an English paper deriding the Freedom to Choose movement and besmirching it by calling it Pro-Smoking. I hope people are not so mislead to believe these characters have any real contribution to this debate. ASH and all the other corrupt low life lunatics behind the 'Big Deceit' it is well known employ nutcases like these to ridicule others and stifle any sensible debate.
43

David from New Mills,

Fug free Pleasantville, U.K. 24/05/2008 19:57:47
#42, Stef,Edinburgh.
I see once more we have some more silly posting, from our resident nutter, wee stef. Please feel free to treat this anti restriction fanatic with any little credibility he merits. He is here posting and rebuking people on behalf of his sponsors, just a nasty little man serving his masters. This legislation has turned this country into a real h(e)aven for small minded and petty intolerants, of which the above is a perfect example. I saw postings from our sensible Rollo, in an English paper deriding the Freedom to Choose movement and correctly recognising it's rationale by calling it Pro-Smoking. I hope people are not so misle(a)d as to believe this character has any real contribution to this debate. FOREST, F2S and all the other biased parties behind the 'Big Smokescreen', as it is well known, employ nutcases like this to attempt to ridicule others and stifle any sensible debate.
Perhaps if F2S hadn't chosen to attempt to use the article from an "English" paper, well why not we're all in the U.K. after all, in a despicable attempt to further their cause, Rollo and I wouldn't have spotted it. Stef will perhaps excuse me for correcting his grammar in this paraphrase.
Is he actually one of the 600 or so members of F2S?
Gardyloo, bud!
44

Rollo Tommasi,

26/05/2008 10:40:44
Stef: I didn't realise it was possible for a single paragraph to be so wrong in so many ways until I read your post 42. So much deluded nonsense.

Shame you're either scared or just not interested in a proper, reasonable debate. Stepping out of a bigot's world requires a bit more courage than you have, it seems.
45

David from New Mills,

U.K. 26/05/2008 18:57:54
#44, Rollo Tommasi.
Not sure why Rollo feels this way. On the contrary, I was so entranced by stef's literary style and forceful arguments that I was immediately compelled to plagiarise his compelling "thoughts". Well, alright, I jest. #42 was actually a load of inconsequential piffle.
46

Stef,

Edinburgh 27/05/2008 14:04:59
44#Rollo,
Nothing deluded in my comment, you are either employed by this disgusting regime or otherwise you must be an obsessed lunatic to spend so many wasted hours supporting these wicked policies that have bankrupted the hospitality trade, caused so much misery and alienated people from one another. It is you who is the 'Bigot' Mr Tommasi, as for the likes of you to even mention bigotry, and attempting to apply it to anyone else is certainly delusional.
47

David from New Mills,

Pleasantville, U.K. 27/05/2008 19:37:40
#46, stef, back in Edinburgh.
So what's the real cause of stef's constant rancour? Is it just too chilly satisfying his addiction on the frozen pavements of Edinburgh?
If he's always so sure that Rollo and I are mere government serfs, perhaps he should join MI6 to keep a closer watch on us. Or maybe SMERSH?
48

Rollo Tommasi,

28/05/2008 07:58:45
You just keep going, Stef.

When it comes to comparing bigoted and prejudiced comments with reasoned argument, you make my case perfectly for me.
49

Stef,

Edinburgh 08/06/2008 16:58:20
#48 Mr Tommasi,
Quite simply you do not have any reasoned argument, you are against all reasoned debate when you support a legislation, running roughshod over every adults personal decisions and freedoms of choice. Alongside those Fascists that you support, you are bigoted in thinking you know better than everyone else. Your wish too impose your small minded beliefs and your corrupt interpretation of science on too others confirms your 'Control Freak' identity. Your falsely superior manner, merely exposes your inferiority and your condescending approach demonstrates exactly just, what kind of man you are. Yes you are a bigot and a zealot, Mr Tommasi.
50

David from New Mills,

Fug free Pleasantville. 10/06/2008 11:03:01
#49, Stef,Edinburgh.
Keep digging, stef. While down there, he may care to note for future tirades that "too" is an adverb, whilst "to" is the preposition he was presumably seeking.
51

Stef,

Edinburgh 12/06/2008 05:06:58
#50 Norris from Newmills,
Rollo on holiday? needs his apprentice?, lol. You pair, really are the dynamic duo. You both clearly like uniforms and restrictions, was it the 'all boys grammar school' that made you so pedantic and condescending? or are you just a sad little man?. lol.
I really don't need a reply, Norris.
52

David from New Mills,

Fug free Pleasantville 12/06/2008 10:48:59
#51, stef.
Stef may care to note that "The Apprentice" is inviting applications for the 2009 series. He shouldn't worry, as they seem to take a lot of rough diamonds.
53

jimb4abobor2,

Edinburgh 21/06/2008 05:30:08
I agree with #28 they open pubs 24hrs but ban smoking lots of young people are been killed through drink related violence and what do they do open clubs and pubs even longer after all as i said you dont have a fag then proceed to do as much harm or even kill your enemy. but whats new in this world the ban the wrong thing and then they realise 10yrs down the line. I think the cigarette is a trial product or a pilot for worse and less human rites too come. Take a stand people before i'ts too late and we dont have a say anymore and if you do you will either be shot or locked up until you sign up to there agreement.

 

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