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Capital heads UK's economic table



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Published Date: 24 June 2008
EDINBURGH has the strongest economy in the UK, outstripping even London, a report has revealed.
People in Scotland's capital produce £10,000 more a year for the economy than the UK average.

Experts believe the city's success is down to its status as a leading centre for the financial services industry – the home of companies such as Standard Life, the Royal Bank of Scotland and Halifax Bank of Scotland.

They also say creation of the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government has fuelled the boom.

But the findings have ignited debate over the uncertainty of Scotland's constitutional future and the merits of plans to introduce a 3p local income tax.

Only Berkshire, which relies on London commuter belt wages, scores higher than Edinburgh's £28,432 produced per person.

And if London commuter belt areas are removed, Scotland has three cities in Britain's top ten, with Glasgow seventh and Aberdeen ninth.

Edinburgh beats London because of the UK capital's high house prices.

The figures in the report, by Scottish chartered accountancy firm Campbell Dallas, are based on Office for National Statistics findings for 1995 to 2005, the latest available, so are not taking into account the problems of the recent credit crunch.

David Lonsdale, assistant director of CBI Scotland, said: "This report reflects on the success story Edinburgh has been. But obviously, given recent events with the financial markets, it is important that the UK and Scottish governments help consolidate its status.

"I don't think uncertainty over independence has had much effect, but companies are keeping an eye on what happens."

But Labour warned that the Nationalists' push for independence might undermine Edinburgh and Scotland's success.

Iain Gray, Labour's finance spokesman, said: "These statistics show that Edinburgh has benefited hugely from the 11 years of a UK Labour government. But this growing prosperity is put at risk by the constitutional uncertainty caused by the current SNP government and the misguided plans to introduce a local income tax.

"Edinburgh's seismic growth is under threat if the SNP succeeds in making Scotland the highest-taxed part of the UK."

The report follows the Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS) report last week, which showed that if Scotland claimed its 83 per cent of North Sea oil revenues, it would be performing better than the rest of the UK. The Scottish finance secretary, John Swinney, said the Campbell Dallas report underlined GERS's findings.

A spokesman for Mr Swinney said: "While there is no room for complacency, the Scottish economy compares favourably to the UK, with retail sales and house prices holding up well.

"Scottish growth outperformed UK growth in the last two quarters, and our labour market continues to outperform the UK average."

He added that replacing the council tax with a local income tax would mean a tax reduction in Scotland and said businesses had responded positively to the SNP government.

Campaign to drum up support to ensure survival of Tattoo

A CAMPAIGN to safeguard the future of one of Scotland's most prestigious events will get under way today, as it emerged that the Edinburgh Military Tattoo is worth £100 million to the nation's economy.

Business leaders and politicians are being urged to throw their weight behind a move to create a new-look arena for the world-famous event.

They will be warned that the existing spectator stands, which have been used for the event since 1975, need replacing within five years if the event is to survive. The Tattoo announced yesterday it hoped to have new grandstands up and running for 2011.

But a funding package needs to be in place by this autumn to meet a strict timetable for producing detailed plans and securing planning permission.

A Wimbledon-style debenture scheme is expected to be launched within a year to help pay for the £15.5 million arena, and the Tattoo is also hoping to strike a number of deals with major sponsors. Although the City of Edinburgh Council has earmarked £3 million for the project, it is understood that the Scottish Government will be asked to provide the same.

Linda Fabiani, the culture minister, is expected to be among the guests at tonight's event.

The nationwide economic benefit of the Tattoo was estimated at just £30 million four years ago, when a detailed study found that the city's year-round programme of events was worth £184 million to Scotland. However, work commissioned since then by the Tattoo has found that the economic figure for Edinburgh alone this year will be well over £50 million, with the nationwide amount likely to be about £100 million.

The average visitor to the Tattoo is expected to spend at least £300 in the capital during their visit.

More detailed work will be carried out during this year's Tattoo, tickets for which are already sold out, to help to build the case for the replacement of the spectator stands.




The full article contains 819 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 June 2008 10:02 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scotland's economy
 
1

,

24/06/2008 00:16:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

Traquir , Alba,

24/06/2008 00:19:40
Of course Scotland will be doing a lot better
financially when are able to be rid of the
South East Money Pit :

We hear continually how well Scotland does out
of this benevolent Union all the time and in
fact Margret Thatcher The Ruler of Scotland
1979-1990 stated it clearly herself

"we English who are marvellous people are really
very generous to Scotland"
see - tinyurl.com/4lowk7

I thought it would be interesting to see how well
London and the South East are doing out of the Union
over the last few years - rather well it would seem from just a sample of the financial investments :

. £30 billion subway upgrade program
see - tinyurl.com/6sxrgv
. £5.9 billion on one London railway station
see - tinyurl.com/6yheht
. £16 billion For another London rail line
see - tinyurl.com/yphdwl
. £1 billion to upgrade an existing railway station
see - tinyurl.com/5sn8mm
. three quarters of a billion on a Dome !
see - tinyurl.com/6h6ezn
. Followed of course by yet another London regeneration project
£5 billion
see tinyurl.com/5l3jp3
. £6 billion Channel Tunnel Rail Link
see - tinyurl.com/4pg53n
. £2.5 billion -Roads just around the Docklands in London
http://tinyurl.com/55wh6b
. £3.2 billion For Another Tube line
see - tinyurl.com/5qjoao
. £1 billion improvement to an existing Light Rail Line
see - tinyurl.com/6q2424
. £20 billion for a Second Thames flood barrier planned
see - tinyurl.com/5uf79a
. A £4 billion greenhouse tower over Batersea power station
see- tinyurl.com/6ac8hn
. £9.3 billion for the Channel Tunnel -
see tinyurl.com/6s4vsb
. £4.3 billion for a 5th Heathrow Terminal
see - tinyurl.com/2h5hx6
. £5 billion Upgrade other London airport upgrades
see - tinyurl.com/5oe82n
. £10 billion Plans for Heathrow link to Channel tunnel
see - tinyurl.com/568dzq
. £13 billion for a third runway Heathrow runway
see - tinyurl.com/3bgdtt
. £9 billion for Brown's plans to transform Thames Gateway
see - tinyurl.com/4kr3pt

Of cour
3

Traquir , Alba,

24/06/2008 00:19:59
cont.

Of course the Unionistas will tell use what great value
for money Scots get from these investments since we will all benefit from the breadcrumbs.
So just how nutritious and effective are these breadcrumbs ? :

"The average overrun in London was 131.5 per cent, almost four times higher than the national average overrun of 33.7 per cent and
making London the worst performing region in the country."

see - tinyurl.com/4swoxk

As an example what are we going to get from
our "investment" in the London Olympics which
includes £184 million taken from the
Scottish lottery , see - tinyurl.com/6pyd43.
Well the Government conducted their own report
on the matter so need to guess how well we
will do out of it. From the report :
"The implication of this is that for the rest of the
UK (excluding London), London 2012 will have a negative
impact on GDP of c.£4 billion caused by the displacement of resources and activities towards London."
"implies significant negative
effects to the rest of the UK (excluding London)."
see tinyurl.com/6my6gp & tinyurl.com/6l3jeh

The Unionist British Government did not spend any
significant efforts promoting this latest Union
dividend from our collective investments. Interestingly
this report was before many of the massive cost overruns so no doubt the losses outside London will be even greater.

Recent stories from Channel 4 & The Telegraph
exposed the truth :

"London is hugely over-provided for."

"London actually gets much more than its fair share."

"London gets far more spending than it needs"

see - tinyurl.com/5mzvfh & tinyurl.com/6y4z4b


On top of this we of course have a substantial
"investment" being made in London's Palace of Westminster, The House Of Lords, Whitehall & The Scotland Office. I wonder how much these are all costing and Scotland and what return we are getting on the "investment" ?

So exactly who is subsidizing who in this Union ?
4

Traquir , Alba,

24/06/2008 00:22:10
So clearly London & the South East are doing pretty
well out of this Union. So where else is Scotland
getting a Union dividend from our collectively
pulling of resources for the greater good. I fail
to see it from the following sample of recent
great British initiatives or great British follies
as I like to call them :

. At least £8 billion on wars
see - tinyurl.com/5pe3lg
. Up to £110 billion wasted bailing out Northern Rock.
Incidentally prior to the purchase £45 billion
of the good investments were hived off to a
separate investment vehicle
based in Jersey called Granite, which is supposedly a
charity for Down's Syndrome sufferers but does not
actually raise any money for charity.
see - tinyurl.com/26sr5r & tinyurl.com/3agqqa
. A further £6 billion in nuclear research at
England's Adlermaston
see tinyurl.com/5c75ey
. £36.9 Billion on Defence
see - tinyurl.com/fcqfw
This includes (see - tinyurl.com/53mslt )
. Being 6th highest military spender in the world
. Being 4th highest arms exporter including to
countries with bad human rights records
e.g. China, Saudi Arabia, Columbia
. Being one of 5 official nuclear weapons States
in the World
. "investment" in chemical weapons at Porton Down,
which at one point were tested on a Scottish Island
(see tinyurl.com/3vkcll ) Incidentally the Scottish
Island was eventually decontaminated by an
English Company for £500,000 (see tinyurl.com/4fpkhr)
. £1.6 billion on running Embassies and the
BBC World Service
We have already seen how well the BBC is representing
Scotland with their proven "Anglocentricity and
London-centricity" bias so we can only guess
what kind of job the British Embassies are
doing in promoting Scottish interests.
see tinyurl.com/6md9t5 & tinyurl.com/5tmmhd
. £76 billion on a New Trident system.
see - tinyurl.com/3kub7t
. £72 billion on the Nuclear industry
see - tinyurl.com/5nk8ws
. £250 billion squan
5

Traquir , Alba,

24/06/2008 00:22:30
cont.

. £72 billion on the Nuclear industry
see - tinyurl.com/5nk8ws
. £250 billion squandering the opportunity
of North Sea Oil
see - tinyurl.com/4pywt9
. £0 billion Scottish Oil Fund
. £1.3 billion On MI5/MI6 centered in England
Particularly insulting since MI5 was (is ? ) used
to spy and infiltrate the SNP.
see - tinyurl.com/6qdltd
see - tinyurl.com/6lmogj
. £31bn computer bill for new NHS system ( I wonder
how much of that is spent in Scotland ? )
The original budget of £6bn, is now expected
to cost taxpayers over £30bn
see tinyurl.com/53cbmn & tinyurl.com/555kho

How many new Hospitals, new schools, improved social programmes, and real investments for the future
such as an Oil Fund etc could be created instead. Scotland cannot afford to stay in this Union we need to break free at the earliest opportunity.

Saor Alba
6

Nikostratos,

24/06/2008 00:29:19
Traquir all posts



"based on Office for National Statistics findings for 1995 to 2005"

so there goes any pretence of the snp being the cause of this economic miracle or that being in the Union is bad for Scotland.


Oh and by the way Traquir you are getting repetitive and Boring its only the other nat extremist who get of on your post. U know the same one u post every day.....Yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
7

Traquir , Alba,

24/06/2008 00:40:28
6 Nikostratos

Thanks for your interesting and informative post.

Slàinte mhor a h-uile là a chi 's nach fhaic
8

Conan the Librarian™,

24/06/2008 00:40:59
6
Niko, there is no pretence, and no economic miracle.
It's been here all the time, artfully camouflaged by the treasury.

Where were you in the eighties Niko? London?
9

What happens when the oil runs out?,

24/06/2008 00:59:10
Traquir,

The whole point of posts on these threads is that they're supposed to be short, to the point and amusing.

Or threatening certain death to "unionists" after the Revolution.

Rubber Bullets.
10

Nikostratos,

24/06/2008 00:59:16
#8 Conan

for some of it........trying to survive


#7

Um I'm sure you dont mean that Traquir


http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/60/60641/folders/32250/989523FatManAtComputer.jpg

Here is this u or is it conan..he he
11

Ken_Fitlike,

24/06/2008 01:01:42
Below is a link to an online poll using the exact question proposed in the Scottish Government's White Paper.

"Choosing Scotland's Future."

VOTE NOW

scottishreferendum2008.blogspot.com

Please forward on this link to anyone eligible to vote in Scotland, the aim is to have over 1000 votes.....

Thankyou
12

What happens when the oil runs out?,

24/06/2008 01:03:12
#11,

You just don't get it do you, pal?
13

Nikostratos,

24/06/2008 01:07:08
#9

The Oil ain't gonna run out we got enough for the next three thousand years. we are rich! rich! more than the dreams of avarice..its all ours ha ha ha.

went and orderd me merc the other day and when the showroom salesman asked how i was gonna pay...I just flashed me snp membership card and said loudly 'INDEPENDENCE'..everbody cheered hooray!

its being delivered next Monday along wid me helicopter
14

Conan the Librarian™,

24/06/2008 01:07:58
9
You like 10cc?

Niko is indeed short and amusing.



15

Traquir , Alba,

24/06/2008 01:22:35

13 Nikostratos,

"The Oil ain't gonna run out we got enough for the next three thousand years. we are rich! rich! more than the dreams of avarice..its all ours ha ha ha."

Are you Mr Ingham or perhaps one of his
lost love children ?

"they smelt money"
"as greedy as sin as they were"
"the only thing that fueled nationalism was
the smell of oil, money and oil"
"it really is the most monstrous piety"

see - tinyurl.com/6ymamn
16

Conan the Librarian™,

24/06/2008 01:29:32
16
Ah. Good old Bernard Ingham.

...Not.
17

Nikostratos,

24/06/2008 01:34:27
#16

Bernard ingham low blow there Traquir......gnight time for chucking out some zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
18

Conan the Librarian™,

24/06/2008 01:37:45
The Torys in 83,
"they smelt money"
"as greedy as sin as they were"
"the only thing that fueled Thatcherism was
being able to what they wanted...
19

Conan the Librarian™,

24/06/2008 01:41:27
...to do. They did.
20

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/06/2008 01:47:27
Niko.

When will you learn what supporters of Independence have known for a very long time; Scotland is fiscally viable. With or without the Union.

It does the Unionist Propoganda Machine great credit, that they have succeeded for so long but, their deceit has been found out.
21

frank mcbride,

luitania 24/06/2008 02:42:01
Mcpravda.

You do your cause great credit. Your satire, though, is a bit Connollyish.

But, keep it up.

After all, "If it wasn't for our Wellingtons, where would we be?"
22

uncle bulgaria,

24/06/2008 03:39:17
#21 that may or not be true, but this report doesn't provide any evidence of it.

An economic boom was savoured by everyone during 95 - 05.

Edinburgh's success is remarkable but it's not going to sail on through the credit crunch just because it built a financial centre at Tollcross.

And when times do get tough, will we blame the SNP for it...probly.
23

Scott Webb.......,

24/06/2008 04:04:23
Ive just heard that George Carlin has died, here is an example of what the man was about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KReZyAZLI0

24

Scott Webb.......,

24/06/2008 04:13:44
Here is a better version and he could be saying the same thing about the UK just now :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI5EY5kqiBU&feature=related
25

Castaway,

24/06/2008 04:54:40
From 1992-2004, Scotland’s gross value added grew at 4.7 percent, compared with a UK average of 5.4 percent, giving Scotland only 87 percent of the UK’s growth.The Adam Smith Institute - April 27, 2007
26

bring them on,

24/06/2008 05:51:43
Aye right, next we'll be hearing that Edinburgh is the financial centre of Europe.

Compare the size of that eceonomy with say London.

Makes for more meaningful reading.

27

David MacVicar,

web 24/06/2008 07:02:45
"He added that replacing the council tax with a local income tax would mean a tax reduction in Scotland and said businesses had responded positively to the SNP government."

Local income tax would mean a tax reduction.

Seems that the reality of LIT is starting to sink in.
'Tax Reduction' a phrase completely alien to Labour politicians, which is why they are against LIT in principal.
28

brownlie,

24/06/2008 07:07:03
9 What etc

Quite right - us unionists hate postings that are factual and informative.

We much prefer postings like your own, AM2's and Nikos which are invariably hilarious and open to ridicule!
29

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 24/06/2008 07:34:11
Was this piece about one city? is there oil in Edinburgh? What do they make in that city? Do they have superb manufacturing companies? Or is it money takenform other parts of the UK by life companies? These life companies are dinosaurs, well not quite, the dinosaurs finally became extinct and couldn't pretend they were still alive.
30

The Tin Man,

24/06/2008 07:38:12
Every possible story in this newspaper is turned into a justifitation for independence / a justification for the UK, by us commentors. What a boring, tedious bunch of mindless twits we are. The football threads are less biased.
31

danielrober,

24/06/2008 07:51:06
Is it possible to have some claity on a question.

Is this success based on ten years of Labour goverment and devolution or one year of SNP control and the independence drive? Which one, i think its important.
32

eric,

lothian 24/06/2008 07:58:53
a couple of scraps thrown from london and it goes to your head .
33

Mike Masterton,

London 24/06/2008 08:04:30
Who was it that said "If your tired of London, then your tired of life", in that case I'm asleep.
The best thing in London is the road to the M1 then the M6 to Glasgow !
London used to be great untill it became over crowded & dirty, losing the Routemaster,Royal Mail delivering only once a day (and often late )congestion charge need I go on !
34

danbob,

24/06/2008 08:15:36
Just two days after the the last fairy tale that prompted nearly 700 pointless posts, the Scotsman introduces another one. No doubt another 700 pointless posts will emerge over the next two days on the back of this story. There is a big wide world out there where a lot of things are happening. Things that justify comment. Why does the Scotsman for once try and report on more news worthy stories.
35

The Tin Man,

24/06/2008 08:24:29
The next thing will be a load of posters claiming that Edinburgh's success is due to politicians, as if the government has had anything much to do with it.

Yaaaaaaaaawwwn.....
36

11+failed,

the pans 24/06/2008 08:27:25
Yep, RBS and BOS on their knees pleading with their mainly English shareholders to give them £12bN and £4bn respectively to save them from bankruptcy.
37

bring them on,

24/06/2008 08:33:08
Edinburgh and China neck and neck as the world's largest economy.
38

11+failed,

the pans 24/06/2008 08:35:43
28 contd
A subsidy of £30,000 for every man woman and child in Edinburgh!
39

JenJen,

WestisBest 24/06/2008 08:56:09
Wait wait now. Some sleight of hand here.

"Capital heads UK's economic table" .. then it says apart from Berkshire. So it doesn't head it.

Then Glasgow and Aberdeen are in the table only if you remove "the London commuter belt". Pardon me, but isn't most of London's wealth driven by the citizens of its enormous commuter belt?

And finally, it seems Edinburgh has a high position not because of economic vigour particularly but because of relatively low house prices compared to London.

This is a completely fabricated story trying to find some kind of Scottish angle which hardly exists.
40

Grant,

Scotland 24/06/2008 09:04:30
#38 Only 7% of RBS shares are owned by private individuals, the overwhelming majority held by insitutions, mainly multinational.
41

Joe,

Dalmeny 24/06/2008 09:05:48
"Edinburgh's seismic growth is under threat if the SNP succeeds in making Scotland the highest-taxed part of the UK."
Edinburgh and Scotland's growth were under threat the moment SNP cancelled the direct rail link to Edinburgh airport.
42

Mcsnagpile,

24/06/2008 09:21:31
Once again the Edinburgh accountants are out with the bag of gold. Pieces of eight, Pieces of eight, pieces of eight Auk Auk. % this an % that.
Edinburgh is not the only place in Scotland, ask a Weggie, or a Dundonian.
Something that is certainly missing in the SNP and Scottish Nationalism is brotherhood and heart. Awa back tae yer bag o’ Groats.

43

Billy the Fish,

Glasgow 24/06/2008 09:29:34
Traquir,

You are a nationalist bore.
44

Green,

Dundee 24/06/2008 09:31:48
“The figures in the report, by Scottish chartered accountancy firm Campbell Dallas, are based on Office for National Statistics findings for 1995 to 2005, the latest available, so are not taking into account the problems of the recent credit crunch.

David Lonsdale, assistant director of CBI Scotland, said: "This report reflects on the success story Edinburgh has been.”

Yeah right in other words its history.

Skewing the British economy to be based on financial services products was always a bad idea, showing how dominated the political process is by the city of London and the chickens have come home to roost.

FT yesterday..
Goldman wielding axe, 'the pace of job losses in the investment banking services industry set to accelerate over the summer with world’s leading co. Goldman Sachs starting to cut too

Only 1 housebuyer for every 15 houses on the market`

Being a mini me city of London is not going to work.
45

Alan B,

24/06/2008 09:52:50
#47 Green

What exactly do u suggest then?

Modern economies have moved into a post industrial age. With more and more people employed in service industries and a relative decline of manufacturing. The same happened years ago with the decline of people working in agriculture with the industrial age.

With globalisation many manufactured goods are produced in low cost areas. While there will always be high value areas of manufacturing, the main job markets in the western economies will be in service areas. Even in manufacturing it will be valued added areas, design etc and not the actual manufacturing. Financial services are a key part of the services industry. And also jobs servicing the financial sector too.

So how would u propose u have a balanced economy producing jobs in high wage, high skilled areas? How many jobs in the financial sector are too much, if u feel it is unbalanced?
46

11+failed,

the pans 24/06/2008 09:53:26
43 Grant
The money is raised on the London Stock Exchange. 56% of RBS institutional shareholdings are with UK domiciled institutions.
47

HughB,

Edinburgh 24/06/2008 09:56:42
When talking about the tatoo being worth £100 million to the nations economy, which nation are we talking about here. I assume westminster, because they get all the tax, vat, insurance tax, tax on taxis, tax on hired cars, tax on festival events, tax on hotel stays, tax on the wee dram the tourists might have while they stay here.

And then anything that's left over will disappear into the international hotel chains or shop chains coffers.

So what exactly is left for the THIS nation Scotland?

Not a lot. Not a lot.
48

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 24/06/2008 09:59:26
#1 - and so the ugly head of nationalism grows ever bigger. Stop kidding on this has anything whatsoever to do with one year of a SNP led adminstration cause we ain't that thick, just as # 6 Nikostratos points out!

In reality this has been achieved in a large part due to the stability of having a relatively stable economy for the past 10 years. Things would be even better if we adopted and became an integral part of the euro zone and eventually one day that will become a reality once the luddites have been exposed. So forget these Scottish pound notes with wee fat Eck Salmons fizzog on it and lend even greater credibilty to the financial sector in Scotland by embracing the union instead of trying to destroy it all the time.

49

Alan B,

24/06/2008 10:03:58
#Liberal for life

Are u daft. We would have a much better chance of joining the euro if scotland was not attached to the uk. England simply will not join for political reasons. Bot the lib dems and labour in scotland are supportive of the euro but will not contemplate scotland joining unless england do.

The european union has simply made the uk union irrelevant. There is no point in joining one union to allow that union to represent ur interests in another union. Specially when it is not represented within that union well.

Get out the uk union and play a full role in the european union and scotland will be better of for it.
50

DaveK,

Edinburgh 24/06/2008 10:06:50
Edinburgh is only doing well because there are so many English up here flashing the cash. That will all change come the revolution, can't wait for King Alex to get his way. Is it true that if we vote for the SNP we get 70 virgins in heaven, or is that the al qaeda pension plan?
51

Observing person,

here 24/06/2008 10:12:04
this story has obviously turned a lot of readers' faces pure dead green this morning, edinburgh is a hugely successful city and no amount of back stabbing and jealousy especially from #34 eric, who goes by the name of jim in the herald will stop it
52

The Strategist,

24/06/2008 10:46:25
I'm an SNP supporter but the idea that Edinburgh has the strongest economy in the UK and outstrips London is completely risible.

This strikes me as some crud that's been thought up by the new boy at Scottish Financial Enterprise. As I've said before RBS, HBOS and the others may well employ a lot of people in Scotland but in terms of actually supporting the Scottish economy and contributing to their real growth then they are all a complete waste of space.
53

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 24/06/2008 10:49:35
#52 Alan B. Alan while I don't entirely agree with you EU position, you have contributed some sense to a swamp of nonsense.

Infact one major factor that will save the bacon of the conglomerates that have prospered over the so called boom of the last 10/15 years and that is the £1.5 trillion of indebtidness they have encouraged the gullible consumers to adopt.

The implication of this is that the average Joe is so busy trying to save his own neck the wider implications of cause and effect are left to those same conglomerates to sort out; generally to their own best advantage and often with the support of our bemused politicians.
54

Southsider71,

East Renfrewshire, Glasgow 24/06/2008 10:50:06
#54 Why would anyone be jealous ? as for Eric, he is no worse than some of the other posters on here...I find your comment about people being green with envy very strange.
55

Silence of the Yams,

24/06/2008 11:15:10
If only we made the same wages as Londoner's!! 25/30 per hour is common in the London financial sector. We're downtrodden by sh!tty wages!
56

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 11:30:50
Yet more proof that the "big bad union" is holding Scotland back........oh wait.
57

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 11:37:06
1-??. Does anyone ever bother checking this geek's links?

Yesterday, he tried to claim that Euro shipbuilding was growing strongly and quoted a website stating: "The market is on the up..."

Follow his tinyurl link and you got a report on the 'welding consumables' market!
58

Jock ex 45Cdo RM,

THORNHILL 24/06/2008 11:37:45
Traquir Alba-- are you by any chance a nighshift worker?
Great health to you too my Friend.
According to the English, Scotland will collapse once we rid the shackles.
There is a parallel with Norway-Sweden and that took a war to separate them.
59

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 11:39:11
64/65. The UK is also the third largest shareholder in the rest of the world's companies, after the US and Japan.

Your point?
60

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 11:45:51
68 [contd] The UK has the third largest number of companies in the 'Forbes 2000' list of the world's largest companies, as in the similar 'FT Global 500' list.

Indeed, the UK has more companies in these lists than France and Germany combined.

It's so unlike the nationalists to only tell a fraction of the whole story!

Mind you, as we know from the SNP's GERS, they are naught but a bunch of liars anyway.
61

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 11:50:18
68/69 The point of your posts in relation to Edinburgh having a more productive economy than London per head escapes me.
62

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 11:53:04
3. "So exactly who is subsidizing who in this Union "

1. It's 'subsidiSing'.

2. In the recently produced GERS, signed off by both Salmond and Swinney, Scotland received a subsidy of £10.2bn from the rest of the UK in 2006/07.

That's a THIRD of Holyrood's budget in "subsidy".

3. Even if you calculate in oil, the SNP still needed £2.7bn, 10% of their total budget.

So in answer to your question, the UK is "subsidising" Scotland to the tune of several billion a year.

Unless you do some 'Salmond maths' and count all the taxes but ignore £4bn in spending.....then you get a 'surplus'!
63

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 11:53:51
72. Spook, indeed, I could see no point at all in Highland's ramblings.

He also refers to "the SNP's GERS" when I think he means the GERs figures compiled by non-party political civil servants which show Scotland in surplus, subsidising the rest of the UK which is in massive deficit.
64

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 11:55:14
73. Highland - why do you lie so blatantly? The GERs figure showed a current account surplus for Scotland, and a defecit for the rest of the UK, when only 83% of oil revenues are included.
65

DaveK,

Edinburgh 24/06/2008 11:56:35
Why is it that the vast majority of Nats use every article as a way of deriding the UK and tacitly the very country they are from. If you hate it so much, put your money where you mouth is and leave, if the concept of the union makes your skin crawl there are plenty of airports with flights out of this opressed nation - it worked for Sean Connery thankfully!
66

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 11:56:36
74. Salmond?

LOL!
67

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 11:59:24
77. The GERs figured were compiled and released by civil servants, and signed of by the government's chief economist. As they show a current account surplus for Scotland of £600 when only 83% of oil revenue is included, while the UK as a whole has a current account deficit of billions, it seems to undermine your case. Sad when a good piece of sneering anti-Scottish polemic is ruined by reality..
68

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 24/06/2008 11:59:42
TARQUIR from Alba has to be one of the most tiresome, repetitive, boring, derivative posters on these threads.

He just throws out reams of statistics and expects us to be impressed. Well, I am NOT.

Anybody can extrapolate stats and post them and try to "appear" educated.

He really needs to get out more in society and get some fresh airand perhaps his sanity will return.
69

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:00:00
79. £milliom
70

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 12:00:01
78. So you are just going to conveniently ignore £4bn in spending so you can claim a £837m 'surplus'?

How pathetically desperate.
71

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 12:01:57
And Ayrshire Scot is all over the place.

Calm down, you're humiliating yourself.

Again.
72

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:01:59
82. Including the borrowing for capital projects, Scotland still shows a surplus at current oil pricing of £5 billion. Even including borrowing and using oil pricing at £65/b and only a 83% attribution of revenues, Scotland's position is far healthier than the UK, which has a deficit of £43 billion...
73

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 12:03:44
85. No, it doesn't.

You are a liar.
74

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:03:47
76. No thanks, we will stay and seek to change our country.
75

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:05:24
86. Well, according to GERS, the Grant Thornton analysis, the Times and the Herald, it is you who is incorrect:
Oil 'would make independent Scotland rich' - Times OnlineMaurice Fitzpatrick, an accountant with Grant Thornton, who has examined the economics of an independent Scotland for the past decade, said: “There is no ...
business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article3954031.ece


Statistics show Scotland in surplus"Indeed, as North Sea oil revenues soar, City accountancy firm Grant Thornton estimate that Scotland's surplus would now stand at some £4.4 billlion. ...
www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2008/06/20103720 - 21k -
76

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:07:43
86... Oil 'would create budget surplus'

The SNP believes the figures back the economic case for independence
Scotland would be in budget surplus to the tune of more than £800m with a "geographical share" of North Sea revenues, government figures suggest.

However, if the country was to receive its per capita share of North Sea revenues in line with the rest of the UK, it would have a deficit of £6bn.


The figures are contained in the Government Expenditure and Revenue in Scotland (Gers) report.

The report compares government spending with the amount of money raised.

Experts from Aberdeen University said a geographical share of North Sea oil revenues would give Scotland 83% of the revenues.

That would give the country a budget surplus of £837m (0.7% of GDP) in 2006/07 - compared with a UK deficit of £4.3bn.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7465840.stm
77

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 12:08:33
89. Scotland will be in surplus NOW...and only because oil prices are so high.

Take out oil and the deficit is a staggering £10bn a year, a third of public spending. A THIRD.

Scotland has been in deficit since 1985.
78

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 12:10:36
90. You really need to check your cut&pastes....

"However, if the country was to receive its per capita share of North Sea revenues in line with the rest of the UK, it would have a DEFICIT of £6bn."
79

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:10:48
92. Highland - good, so you admit Scotland is in surplus. Why would we take out oil? Is it normal when calculating public finance to just remove revenue elements?

Now, you will see from the Times, BBC and GERs links I provided that Scotlands surplus ranges from £830 million to c £5 billion depending on range of oil revenue estimates.
80

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 12:11:24
Would you two kids like a lifejacket?
81

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:11:32
93. YEs, that would assume only c 8% of oil revenue. The article then states "Experts from Aberdeen University said a geographical share of North Sea oil revenues would give Scotland 83% of the revenues.

That would give the country a budget surplus of £837m (0.7% of GDP) in 2006/07 - compared with a UK deficit of £4.3bn.
82

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:12:16
91. LOL. Poor the Highland, he does get worked up and sound more shrill and sneery when he does. Bless
83

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 12:13:49
94. "Is it normal when calculating public finance to just remove revenue elements?"

Salmond obviously thought so when he removed £4bn in spending to find his £800m 'surplus'.

And where did you get this "£5bn surplus" from again?
84

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 12:15:30
96. Are you struggling with your reading?

The £837m 'surplus' only appears if you ignore £4bn in spending.

Can you not grasp that? I will happily repeat it if you want?

The £837m 'surplus' only appears if you ignore £4bn in spending.

See?

The £837m 'surplus' only appears if you ignore £4bn in spending.

There, I did it again.

The £837m 'surplus' only appears if you ignore £4bn in spending.

Can't stop now.....

The £837m 'surplus' only appears if you ignore £4bn in spending.
85

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 24/06/2008 12:15:58
88 The spook in Leith

Your post just proves that there is a fool born every day. I suppose the fumes of Leith have affected your judgment and sanity.
86

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:15:58
98. No, the GERs figures show a current account surplus. ANd the £5 billion surplus comes from the Grant Thornton analysis - here are some links again, perhaps you want to address the points made? As you have already conceded Scotland is in surplus perhaps you want to address the detail?

The report compares government spending with the amount of money raised.

Oil 'would make independent Scotland rich' - Times OnlineMaurice Fitzpatrick, an accountant with Grant Thornton, who has examined the economics of an independent Scotland for the past decade, said: “There is no ...
business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article3954031.ece
----
Statistics show Scotland in surplus"Indeed, as North Sea oil revenues soar, City accountancy firm Grant Thornton estimate that Scotland's surplus would now stand at some £4.4 billlion. ...
www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2008/06/20103720 - 21k -
-----------
Experts from Aberdeen University said a geographical share of North Sea oil revenues would give Scotland 83% of the revenues.

That would give the country a budget surplus of £837m (0.7% of GDP) in 2006/07 - compared with a UK deficit of £4.3bn.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7465840.stm
87

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:17:01
100 - Tim, I think post 88 just quotes a financial times article on the fact Britain is now exceeding EU rules on borrowing...
88

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:19:04
103. Revenues from oil are c. £250 billion to date, at current values...
89

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 12:19:12
101. "That would give the country a budget surplus of £837m (0.7% of GDP) in 2006/07 "

My God, you are stupid!

Look, I'll explain your glaring error:

The £837m 'surplus' only appears if you ignore £4bn in spending.

Once more?

The £837m 'surplus' only appears if you ignore £4bn in spending.

Again?

The £837m 'surplus' only appears if you ignore £4bn in spending.
90

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:20:31
103. Spook, indeed, he does seem to get riled and adopts a very abusive sneery tone, which can only undermine his "case". I note that when presented with links, for example the Times/ Grant Thornton article or the BBC link, he just ignores the data and like a wee child says "you are a liar" - he comes across as a tad pathetic.
91

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:22:22
106. Even including the borrowing for capital projects, using current oil prices gives a surplus of c £5 billion (see Grant Thornton analysis I have provided you with links for)

Inlcuding the same borrowing for capital projects would give the UK a £43 billion deficit - either way Scotland's position is alot stronger..
92

Highland Mighty,

24/06/2008 12:22:31
107.
Nationalist makes ridiculous claim.
Nationalist is quickly proven wrong.
Nationalist gets abusive.

(And no, "liar" is not abuse but an observation.)
93

pwd,

Borders 24/06/2008 12:23:22
This article, the facts behind it and the statistics in post 1 (Traquir), are a resounding vindication of what everyone with any brains knew anyway - the UK is a worthy, honourable and successful institution which has been mutually beneficial for all its constituent parts. Scotland has done and will continue to do well as part of this great success story.
94

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:24:03
106. Anyway Highland, as you are clearly getting over-excited and repeating even within your posts, and incapabale of reading the links, let me just say I am delighted you agree Scotland is in surplus, and I note your delight that Edinburgh is more economically productive per head than London.
95

 Ayrshire Scot™,

24/06/2008 12:25:07
109. Highland - thanks for your thoughts on the Times link to the Grant Thornton analysis showing a £4.4bn Scottish surplus
96

Nikostratos,

24/06/2008 12:30:47
#106 Highland Mighty

Does that mean i won't get me merc and me helicopter i ordered on me snp full membership card........
No