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Battle declared over 'unforgivable' plan to destroy cinema



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Published Date: 17 April 2008
THE demolition of a historic cinema in Edinburgh would be "unforgivable", architectural experts have warned.
A campaign has been mounted to rescue the former Odeon, in Newington. The Cinema Theatre Association has urged the city's council to reject £20 million plans to remove all but the facade of the building.

A developer which has owned the building fo
r almost five years wants to replace it with a hotel, bar and restaurant complex.

The Scotsman has learned that officials at Historic Scotland are almost certain to object to the loss of the auditorium, which dates back to 1930.

But one heritage group has thrown its weight behind the scheme, saying it is unlikely another cinema could be sustained in the city, and that the council should be protecting the viability of existing historic facilities.

Under the plans, films would be shown in an 80-seater theatre and an outdoor courtyard.

The Odeon closed in August 2003 after being bought by Duddingston, a development firm. It has lain empty since.

Duddingston officials had insisted the closure was a matter for the Odeon chain, which pinned the blame for its demise on the council for allowing too many multiplexes to open.

Fresh plans were unveiled earlier this year by the developer, which insisted it had exhausted all attempts to sell the building or retain its main auditorium.

Councillors were due to decide its fate within the next few months. However, The Scotsman understands Duddingston may be forced into a rethink because of the groundswell of opposition.

The Cinema Theatre Association has been lobbying Historic Scotland to offer greater protection to the former Odeon by awarding it A-listed status.

A spokesman, Gary Painter, said: "These current proposals do not represent an acceptable, limited loss of historic fabric. They involve the gutting of the heart of the building, removing almost everything that made it of interest – and worth listing – in the first place.

"This would irreparably and unforgivably damage the character of this listed building."

A spokeswoman for Historic Scotland said: "The Clerk Street Odeon is the finest surviving cinema in Edinburgh.

"We were considering upgrading the listing (from B to A], but that was postponed when the application was lodged as we do not normally consider buildings for listing while there are live planning issues."

However, Euan Leitch, of the Architectural Heritage Society of Scotland, said: "Demolition of the main auditorium would be a great loss to cinema heritage, but its retention is only of value if the auditorium is restored to its 1930, 2,000-seat capacity."



The full article contains 433 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 17 April 2008 12:44 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 17/04/2008 01:02:34
Like another generic hotel and bar restaurant is needed.

The building has character, use it.

Lets face it, the quality of these big complex cinemas are rubbish. How about the Cameo/Filmhouse are given use of it and inject some real period aesthetic back into the building.
2

Brian M,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 07:49:35
If the Cinema Theatre Association is so concerned about it then it should stump up the money and buy the Odeon.
3

eric,

Lothian 17/04/2008 08:28:38
The Old Art deco bingo hall at Bridge st Underground station in Glasgow,is now The Carling Academy,And its a Brilliant venue for gigs.
4

john z,

edinburgh 17/04/2008 08:32:50
Why don't we just trash the whole of historic edinburgh, and model the 'new Edinburgh' on Cumbernauld.

This place would get made in to a bar type thing, then go into liquidation, then become a big indian restaurant, go into liquidation, then become a derelict decaying husk, empty, and with the entire innards gutted, by successive builders.

Edinburgh has an international film festival. Why not restore the building to its former glory, when it had one screen in a massive auditorium. What a wonderful perfect venue for premieres and the like in OLD Edinburgh. Pundits and celebrities from around the world would love it, and so would the citizens of Edinburgh.

Edinburgh needs a new trendy bar/leisure complex like a hole in the head (or stupid trams).
5

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 10:01:06
Duddingston had a huge degree of arrogance to buy the place at a knock down price on basis that would wait a few years and try it's hand at redeveloping.

Next ploy if funding will justify it is to wait a few more years with the council making no attempt in making them upkeep it, then declaring it as unsafe and in need of complete internal demolition.
6

Alasdair,

17/04/2008 10:02:34
For once I find myself in agreement with Eric's ramblings - make it into a gig venue. The interior could be kept, and we're desperately in need of a mid-size venue.

I suspect that the Hotel/bar nonsense would be more profitable though..
7

Logie Almond,

17/04/2008 10:07:01
There was a buyer a couple of years ago who had a mixed use proposal including a cinema and was prepared to pay Duddingston more than the valuation and more than Duddingston paid for it. They refused because they want to squeeze the last penny out of their sordid piece of property speculation. Let's hope the council stick to their own policies and stand up the thoroughly unpleasant bullies who run Duddingston Properties.
8

Seb,

17/04/2008 10:26:44
It would be impossible to get a licence for the cinema to be used as a venue for gigs, it's against policy and the community council would fight it. And how many international premieres are needed to fund it throughout the year?

If the Council and Historic Scotland valued it, why did they let it become subdivided (it was already listed) and then allow the Omni to be built that drained away its audience.

The hotel scheme is the most viable option on the table. The Cameo, Dominion and Filmhouse alraedy struggle to survive, they don't need a competitor.
9

Captainofedinburgh,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 10:48:49
I loved the Odeon on Clerk Street and have alot of good memories of the place. I even went along in the festival a couple of years ago to see Indiana Jones (in it's original form, not remastered) when they got one of the screens up and running again. It was great. However, it's just not viable as a cinema anymore and will never operate as one again. And in it's current layout, I have no idea what the building could be used as. And another rotting, semi-derilict building is not what anybody wants.

It would make a fantastic gig venue if it was converted as such, but it would never happen. The NIMBYs would come crawling out of the woodwork and the plans shelved. The same NIMBYs who complain the building isn't being used and is threatened with redevelopment no doubt. If these people and the various other conservation groups can come up with a VIABLE use for the building in it's current state then great. Otherwise, let the developers in and get something done on the site.
10

Seb,

17/04/2008 11:07:48
The local conservation groups support the art hotel project. The Cockburn association are on record with a letter of support. I believe the Southside Communty Council also support it. It is Historic Scotland and the Planning Dept (and understandably the Cinema Theatre Association) that are blocking the proposals.
11

Alasdair,

17/04/2008 11:33:53
I suppose you're right about the nimby's blocking a gig venue, but it's a shame. The nearby Queen's Hall really isn't suitable for many such events, but gets used as such.
12

OscarDeutsch,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 12:08:29
The subdivisions in the Edinburgh Odeon were done after it was listed, so they were done in a fairly reversible manner. The Odeon in Glasgow was absolutely gutted internally when it was subdivided in 1969, hence why Duddingston got permission to replace the auditorium block there with a 9-storey glass tower. A gig venue would be nice, but the MAMA/Mean Fiddler group have just bought the old Caley cinema at the bottom of Lothian Rd for just this purpose. The main point here is that there HAVE been viable offers made on the building by other parties for uses that don't involve demolition, but Duddingston keep moving the goalposts pricewise and use their own arbitrary criteria to turn down these offers. At the end of the day, why did they buy a B-listed building if their intention was to demolish most of it for a hotel or whatever? Surely such new-build projects can be built on gapsites anywhere, without having to clear away a listed building?
13

Buttress,

17/04/2008 12:12:20
I thought that (according to the Chamber of Commerce, which supported the ghastly Caltongate plans) there was a shortage of conference space in the city? So why not a conference centre?

NIMBY - not in anyone's backyard surely, the spoiling of a fine listed building?


14

Martin 2,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 12:44:44
Duddingston have one aim here - let the process drag on so that the internal refurbishment of this cinema becomes unviable ( probably has already) after 5 years without heating.

I am just waiting for someone to "break in/ be allowed to break in" and torch it - that's what happens in Glasgow, isn't it?
15

Annoyingboi,

Edinbroo 17/04/2008 12:45:53
BLAND. Carry on like this and that's what Edinburgh is going to be described as.

A bar and restaurant. Just what we need indeed!! Not
16

Buttress,

17/04/2008 12:48:24
And many other places too.

Good that HS and the plnners are upholding national policy. That's what they are there for. Shame they tend not to be consistent.

However - I agree - why buy a listed building and then expect that you will be allowed to mostly demolish it?

17

Nell,

The Preservation Hall 17/04/2008 13:02:17
The Odeon used to be used for gigs in the 70's and 80's, why cant it now?
18

Seb,

17/04/2008 13:08:43
Gig Venue - license would be denied.
Cinema - who funds it? The Dominion's on a knfe edge financially, The Cameo just fought off a development threat and the Filmhouse is publicly funded. where do the funds come from to support a 2000 seat cinema?
19

Seb,

17/04/2008 13:12:58
I'd add that the entrance hall, crush hall and first floor cafe would all be restored by Simpson & Brown, and there would remain a community meeting d=facility and screen room in these proposals. So what would be lost is the main auditoium with its tacky statues and crappy columns, to be replaced by a courtyard hotel. None of you would notice the difference as the Clerk St facade will remain the same.
20

Shave,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 13:19:24
The redeveloped ABC on Sauchiehall Street is a great example of what could be done. There is a gap in the market in Edinburgh for a venue the size of The Odeon.

Duddingston should not be allowed to toy with Edinburgh's heritage this way.
21

Buttress,

17/04/2008 13:22:42
There's more to a historic building than the facade. I reckon a cinema's main significance is its auditorium!
22

Draconion,

Musselburgh 17/04/2008 13:36:16
#21 Absolutely right.

There's talk of Edinburgh needing and building a medium size concert hall, because for a lot of events the Usher Hall is too big, and the Queen's Hall too small.

The Odeon would be ideal. There used to occasional concerts during the Festival years ago, and the acoustics were pretty good.
23

Seb,

17/04/2008 13:39:25
As has been repeatedly pointed out, a licence for a music performance venue like the ABC or Carling Acadamy would be unobtainable.

Buttress, I normally agree with you (although this approach certainly isn't facadism) but where do you propose funding come from? Or are you seeking historic fabric saved at all costs with no room for contemporary adaptation?
24

Buttress,

17/04/2008 13:40:17
The problem is that the owners would get more from the knock it down scheme. What is right for the building isn't always what owners want is it?

I can't believe a use cannot be found which respects the building. Let's hope this time HS and planning hold firm.
25

OscarDeutsch,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 13:40:19
The restoration of the front parts of the cinema would not atone in the slightest for the loss of the auditorium, which is far from "tacky" and "crappy" - it's actually in quite a rare style in a UK as well as a Scottish context, and is the only major Scottish example of work by a very well-regarded English architect. The replacement hotel proposed, on the other hand, is the usual insipid glass and cladding that seems to make up the majority of modern architecture. As I recall, the Filmhouse keep coming up with outlandish ideas for expansion, yet here's a building lying empty which would be ideal for their purposes, begging to be used again for the purpose it was designed for, and which could help breathe new life into the area.
26

Buttress,

17/04/2008 13:42:04
23 Maybe the owners could sell to someone with a sympathetic use... but I'm on the side of the CTA. Far too many historic cinemas are being lost to developers.
27

Buttress,

17/04/2008 13:46:55
And here's more about the CTA:

http://www.cinema-theatre.org.uk/scotland/sco_home.htm
28

Seb,

17/04/2008 13:47:31
Oscar

It's rarity and age(second last atmospheric picture in the country, I know, I know) doesn't make the main auditorium any less tacky to me. If atmospheric cinema's are your bag, everyone should holiday in Campbletown and visit the Wee Picture Hoose. The town could certainly do with the revenue. Could you possibly be from the CTA?
29

OscarDeutsch,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 13:48:01
Oh, and read the conservation report by Simpson and Brown on the council's planning website - it clearly states that the auditorium is the most significant part of the building.

Look down the road at Bo'ness. Falkirk Council there have taken the former Hippodrome cinema, derelict for 20 years, and instead of knocking it down to regenerate with a new building, have embraced the heritage of the site and restored it as a community venue at the centre of future plans for the town. When it reopens, it'll be an attraction in its own right.

All it takes is a wee bit of vision and imagination. As I've mentioned, there are people out there who want to rent or buy the Odeon and do things with it that don't involve demolition, but Duddingston shrug off all offers, presumably because they aren't as profitable as their own plans.
30

Seb,

17/04/2008 13:49:05
If the Filmhouse does need to expand, I wonder why it hasn't looked at this. pause for thought for both sides me thinks!
31

Seb,

17/04/2008 13:50:43
I have read the conservation report, and yes they do identify it as of major significance. They've obviously got no principles for them to continue workng on the project!
32

Buttress,

17/04/2008 13:52:54
But surely - 'tacky' is part of the charm of so many cinemas? :-)

It's not an Adam interior!
33

OscarDeutsch,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 13:53:18
Seb - so because *you* consider the auditorium to be tacky, it's loss is acceptable? And because there's one other atmospheric cinema in Scotland, we don't need any others to survive? By that logic, maybe we should demolish all the churches in Scotland, and just pick a good representative one to keep...
34

Seb,

17/04/2008 13:59:24
My opinion is indeed subjective, as is yours on Make's "insipid" design (prior schemes have been dreadful). If there was a viable scheme on the table I'd be delighted for the CTA, but my concern for another independant cinema opening up is that it would lack a significant budget for restoration and there would continue to be a prolonged period of decline. Why did the cinema fall into disuse? Why hasn't The Filmhouse or EIFF waded in? If they were involved in alternative proposals I'd feel inclined to back them.
35

Seb,

17/04/2008 14:02:09
With regard to the alterations of Churches, i can think of a significant number that have lost their interiors to domestic conversion, but they retain their townscape value. If reuse isn't an option, recycle's the next best thing. Maybe if we weren't hosting the Olympics all that HLF cash could be better spent on Cinema heritage.
36

Buttress,

17/04/2008 14:04:54
Hang on though - a listed building isn't only the concern of the CTA, and we have just made several suggestions for sensitive re-use...

Many redundant church conversions have been grim too in reality. :-(
37

Seb,

17/04/2008 14:14:11
I'd agree Buttress, but i'd sooner the buildings remained, albeit altered, than empty, unused and decaying.

You haven't suggested a reuse that would have significant financial backing.... or are we dependant on Council funds?
38

OscarDeutsch,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 14:14:49
The Make scheme is faintly ridiculous, as it appears to involve retaining the external brick walls of the auditorium block - when all the interest is in the interior! To be honest, if you're going to demolish the insides, you may as well knock down the expanse of blank brickwork on the outside too! Cinemas, like churches, seem particularly prone to rapid deterioration, but I was in the Odeon about a year ago and it's still in relatively good nick, other than a few localised spots of water ingress. I've no problem with someone taking it on without the initial budget to restore - a dilapidated listed building is a far better base for restoration than one that's been irreversibly demolished! I'll happily concede that there's no easy answer to this one, but at least articles like this, and a better public awareness of built heritage, through initiatives like the BBC's Restoration series, means there is now some debate before things are actually lost forever.
39

Buttress,

17/04/2008 14:16:29
I understand that others have tried to buy the property for a re-use. Says so above... at times some delay, with the building properly moyhballed, is better than a rushed ruination. That suits the developer of course.



40

Buttress,

17/04/2008 14:19:22
http://www.cinema-theatre.org.uk/casework/CTA_Casework_Jan08.pdf
41

Buttress,

17/04/2008 14:20:23
BTW - some cinemas have been re-used as churches.

And that should have said mothballed.



42

RobD,

Newington 17/04/2008 14:20:34
According to documents filed by DHP with the application, The Filmhouse/EIFF did look at the building briefly back when the Odeon first closed. Duddingston were asking for far more than they were willing to pay.

This is a common theme when you look at the literally *dozens* of people/groups/organisations that have tried and put in offers to buy the building from DHP over the last few years; DHP is clearly not interested in selling, as they stand to make far more money should their plans go ahead.

As for viable, non-cinema, non-music venue alternatives, several have been suggested over the years - the owners are just not interested.

The 'Save the Odeon' group tabled a perfectly viable alternative several times - as reported in the Evening News - with flats & hotel at the back helping to pay for the restoration of the main auditorium as conference/meeting/banqueting space available to be used for film premieres as well.
Regardless of how much money they offered, DHP did not want to sell.

The problem is *not* a lack of viable alternatives.
The problem is an owner who refuses to consider any alternatives other than their own scheme.
43

Seb,

17/04/2008 14:21:45
I like the way Make have retained the brick and pierced it with windows - horses for courses I guess.

8 more years of dispute and disuse would be unfortnunate - clearly no one else lives next door to it! Agreed that raising the debate is always good, as long as it doesn't result in stagnation.

44

RobD,

17/04/2008 14:33:19
Forgot the mention the 'Save the Odeon' scheme was backed by private cash, no need for public money.
A similar scheme is currently underway at the listed former Granada in Clapham Junction...

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/imagesall.php?ref=1001&idi=Assaels+Grand+Regeneration+of+Clapham+Cinema&self=nse&no=1&selfidi=1001AssaelsGrandRegenerationofClaphamCinema_pic1.jpg
45

Seb,

17/04/2008 14:40:45
nice looking project on Clapham (but maybe the additition are a bit too insipid for Oscar!)
46

Arfur,

17/04/2008 14:52:54
why doesn't he just have a bar and restaurant with a cinima theme?
47

Alasdair,

17/04/2008 16:06:55
Do we know for sure that a license for a gig venue would be unobtainable anyway?
As folk have mentioned, the ABC in Glasgow got a license, is it really too crazy to suggest that our Cameo could?
I agree with #20 - I went through to see Belle and Sebastian at the ABC, and it was great. The acoustics were fine (unlike the Carling Academy which has also been mentioned), and the location was pretty handy for those of us using bus or train.
48

OscarDeutsch,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 16:11:35
How dare you, sir, I like a lot of modern architecture, I was traipsing over the ruin of St Peter's in Cardross only last week! Nah, the difference at Clapham is that the majority of the cinema will be retained, with the new bits being built around it. And the new-build elements kinda complement the modernist exterior of that building. It was also something of an enabling development - the local authority giving permission to build flats around it only on condition that the main auditorium and foyers of the cinema be restored. There's space at the back of the Odeon in Edinburgh that could be utilised for a similar scheme, and I doubt many folk will object to the loss of at least part of the fairly spacious stage house if it meant retaining the main auditorium.
49

Seb,

17/04/2008 17:11:24
RobD

Infill on Buccleuch St would surely only require the loss of the queue shelter? I'm intrigued by how many film premiere's the restored building would attract each year, outside of the EIFF... What were the costs of resoration put at by the privately funded "Save the Odeon" group?
50

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 17/04/2008 18:40:05
It would be a superb venue for musicians, what ever happened to the folk that ran the Preservation Hall ?
Re union time?
51

Simon69,

Edinburgh 19/04/2008 18:02:15
Have a look at

http://www.edinburghgigarchive.com/page24.htm

This historic building AND auditorium has to be saved for this history, let alone all the cinema history, and the fond memories of all us Edinburghers........

 

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