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A shattered cheek, severed nerves, two black eyes, stitches – all because Lucy speaks with an English accent

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Published Date: 14 January 2009
A YOUNG beauty therapist told yesterday how she may need facial reconstruction surgery after being brutally attacked because she spoke with an English accent.
Lucy Newman, 22, suffered a fractured cheekbone, severed nerves and two black eyes after being assaulted at the weekend in what police have condemned as a "despicable act".

A complete stranger left her battered and bleeding on a busy Aberdeen street in the early hours of Saturday morning after lashing out with a single punch and shouting at the Cheltenham-born woman to "Get back to f****** England."

He then walked calmly away as Miss Newman lay helpless on the pavement.

The attack happened at about 2am after she and a friend, Kelly Ogston, had left the Espionage nightclub and were walking up Union Street, near the Trinity Centre, to catch a bus.

As she recovered from her terrifying ordeal, Miss Newman, from the village of Gourdon in Aberdeenshire, said: "We were heading up Union Street when we noticed two older guys – maybe 27 to 30 – to the right of us. I had never seen them before.

"I am originally from Cheltenham, but I have stayed in Gourdon for 16 years and a lot of my friends say I sound really English when I've had a drink or I'm with my mum and dad.

"I don't know whether it's because of that, but all I heard was one of these guys shouting 'Get back to f****** England – English bastard'.

"I turned round, not even thinking he was speaking to me, and the next thing he just punched me to the floor. Whoever did this to me is a coward.

"I have to go back to see the maxiofacial surgeon because I might need reconstructive surgery."

Her father, Leslie, said: "It's terrible my daughter was attacked because she is English. When I got to the hospital, Lucy was covered in blood and I couldn't even recognise her. This man needs to be caught."

Lucy Newman before the attack
Lucy Newman before the attack


Jeannie Felsinger, the director of Grampian Racial Equality Council, condemned the attack. She said racist incidents in the area were rising at a rate of about 5 per cent year on year, and that latest statistics showed there was a higher level of racist incidents involving English people in Aberdeenshire than in Aberdeen itself.

"In the city, the ethnic groups subjected to racist incidents are mainly African, Indian or from the EU accession states such as Lithuania," Ms Felsinger said.

"But Aberdeenshire has a much higher incidence of anti-English feeling. There was a peak in the figures for anti-English incidents during the World Cup in 2006."

She went on: "Amongst ordinary people now, if you were to ask if there was racism in Aberdeen, you are more likely to get an affirmative. Because the numbers of minority people have gone up so much, I think everyone appreciates that there are some tensions now."

A spokesman for Grampian Police confirmed they were treating the incident as a potentially racially motivated assault.

Sergeant David Forsyth said: "While this is clearly a despicable act, it is still, unfortunately, not uncommon for racially motivated incidents to take place."

He added: "Very often, these incidents occur during the evenings when alcohol has been consumed."

The man being sought in connection with the attack is described as between 27 and 30 years old, 6ft tall and of medium build. He was wearing a black beany hat and scarf.

IN NUMBERS

ACCORDING to the latest available statistics, 6,439 racist crimes were recorded by Scotland's police forces in 2006 – an increase of 707 (12 per cent) on the previous year's figure.

Two specific crimes – racially aggravated harassment and racially aggravated conduct – accounted for more than half of all racism-related crimes recorded by the police in Scotland.

The majority of victims were of Asian origin, most of them Pakistanis. More than 20 per cent of the victims had experience of previous racist incidents.

The report states: "Although the number of incidents recorded is increasing, this may be due in part to several factors, such as increasing public intolerance of such behaviour, increased public confidence that reporting such incidents is worthwhile and forces' work with a range of victim support agencies to encourage reporting."

In Aberdeen last year 429 racially aggravated incidents were reported, 25 of which involved attacks on English people. A fifth involved assaults. In Aberdeenshire there were 122 reported incidents of which 29 involved English people.


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  • Last Updated: 14 January 2009 1:45 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Steve G,

UK 14/01/2009 00:31:41
Sorry but I have to be honest the view from the south is primarily that the Scottish have become very Xenophobic. The fact that no one from Scotland has written a comment I personally draw my own conclusions. I for one will not be reccomending a visit to scotland for my many US clients until you clean up your act!
2

Conan,

Moffat 14/01/2009 00:40:35
Lucy, speaking for only myself and as a Scotsman who hopes that one day our Scotland will again be an independent sovereign nation, may I express my heartfelt regret, disgust and pain at learning what has happened to you. I don't know if your assailant is a Scotsman, but it doesny matter, hen. It is a disgustingly cowardly attack nonetheless.

And, of course, it is yet another prime example ... as if another were needed ... of how far downhill we have slid as a nation and society.

I have not been posting so much lately as I've been busy with other stuff ... but i stand by my desire to see the likes of your assailanlt suffer an actual painful punishment (in addition to hard-labour jail time, money fines, etc.) that should take the form of (at a minimum) a prolonged and repeated savage whipping over several weeks.

The only language and values our criminal scum understand, even when sober (a rare event), is the harsh physical punishment they so happily mete out to others.

It is long past time to get the gloves off with this sliver of our society, this vile and cowardly vermin, and treat them to a dose of the harm they feel they can impart to any of you reading this, any time or place they feel like it, and do so with impunity as they have NO FEAR of the current joke we call our 'justice system' or the police who are stuck trying to enforce it.

It is long past time to stoke some rear pants-wetting fear into these wee 'hard men' so that they will at least have some small but painful price to pay the next time they decide to slash your daughter's face, break your windshield or burglarize you.

Enough with the inane social experimentation and the trendy leftish softly-softly approach ... it is time NOW for the whip and the brass knuckles.
3

Gorach,

Freuchie 14/01/2009 00:45:40
I wish Lucy a speedy recovery and I hope she realizes that most Scots are not like this.

4

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/01/2009 00:48:50
Steve G - I thought about writing a comment a few minutes ago, but realised that other than deplore the attack, which I do, I wasn't sure what I might say that wouldn't trivialise the vicious crime that was comitted here. But I would like to respond.

You are generalising. The vast majority of Scots have no problem with English people. We have English friends, parents, family, lovers, colleagues - the lot. Many of us are in the same unions, the same political parties, and so on, and identify with English colleagues completely. Most of us are not xenophobic or anti-English.

However, I will accept that there is a core of haters. Small minded people, they aren't usually successful themselves in life and when looking for someone to blame pick on someone "other". A few of them are happy to blame "The English" but they'd be just as happy having a go at "The F-nians" or "The H-ns" or "The Jews" or "The Blacks" or whatever.

Unfortunately, the numbers of these seem to be growing, if the comments by the Race Equality person are correct. Or maybe not - maybe it's just that the people who are of that mindset are a wee bit more confident that they aren't lone voices. We ought to do something about this.
5

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/01/2009 00:55:51
Shocking attack.

Get well soon.

We're not all like the moron who did this evil thing!
6

Shenachy,

South Queensferry 14/01/2009 01:02:26
#1 Steve G, UK – So no Scot has ever suffered a similar fate in England? There are no stupid, drunken violent racists in England? Should I advise my many US/Canadian contacts to stay away from England because I am aware that racism exists in England? C’mon, get real!
The attack on Miss Newman is clearly disgraceful and it makes me ashamed and acutely embarrassed. The senseless thug should get a double dose of his own medicine and I sincerely hope that the law catches up with him but for you to tar us all with the same brush is in itself racist.
I don’t challenge your assertion that some people in England see us as Xenophobic but as a regular traveller (business and pleasure) to England it is certainly not their primary view (opinion) of Scotland or the Scots - so you do not speak for all England. Like you, this story makes me very angry but do try to calm down before you post comments.
7

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 14/01/2009 01:02:38
The suspect sure sounds like a coward. However out at 0200, likely intoxicated.

If you want to see a city/country in despair. Take a look at the cite' that ring many cities in France. They really are frightening, and there is more to come.

All thanks to the P.C. brigade, and idiotic liberal politicos.

All the best.
8

Maisie from Morningside,

14/01/2009 01:08:37
I suspect that this is not the whole story......

However the fact of a drunken assault in the early hours of a weekend am is hardly unusual.....it's probably considered worth reporting because it's an English woman, if it had been a Scot of either sex it would never had made the news.
9

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/01/2009 01:15:28
#8 - "I suspect that this is not the whole story......"

Nasty little insinuation there, topped off with the row of dots.

Pathetic. This is enough of a story to know what the crime was. I suspect you're the kind I meant at #4 when I spoke of "small minded people, they aren't usually successful themselves in life". You even work in a stupid wee grievance about Scots not being fairly treated, "not like thae English".

If you know no different, STFU.
10

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

14/01/2009 01:18:16
Odd that the Scotsman allows comment on this story, whilst it doesn't allow comment on the other crime stories.
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14/01/2009 01:18:36
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14/01/2009 01:20:36
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Alan B,

14/01/2009 01:31:19
Sometimes i question whether this is really a racially aggregated assault and not just thug intend on abusing and committing violence against someone weaker, and if it has not been her it would have been someone else for no real reason.

That is not to say there are not racial issues and problems in scotland.

#1 Your comments seem more intent in stirring trouble than anything else. While i have no double scotland has racial issues to make out scotland has a problem and england does not when england votes in the bnp to power and we have seen the recent racial and xenophobic outbursts from Harry, makes it seems you are trivialising the hurt caused to this poor woman.
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14/01/2009 01:35:44
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14/01/2009 01:40:53
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14/01/2009 01:41:58
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Fifi la Bonbon,

14/01/2009 01:44:06
That's terrible, sicko4 - I haven't read what you said cos there's so much but I'm quite sure it's terrible. You ought to write a book, a really long one, setting out in minute detail the valuable and important points that need to be set down for posterity. Go on, go and do it now!
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Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 14/01/2009 01:54:30
Any violent attack is not on but I smell something a little fishy here. The article states:-

"In Aberdeen last year 429 racially aggravated incidents were reported, 25 of which involved attacks on English people"

Thats 25 too many attacks on English people but what about the other 95% of racially motivated attacks on others?. Can't recall one article about any of those in the Scotsman last year. Also given that English people make up 10% of the population of Scotland (outweighing other 'incomers' greatly) I would suggest that the lack of attacks on English people is a sign of massive tolerance and acceptance of them.

As I said this attack is deplorable but a little bit of perspective is required here. Why no articles about the other 95% of attacks - perhaps that dosen't fit the agenda.
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14/01/2009 01:58:03
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Newton_Invented_Gravity,

14/01/2009 01:59:49
I'm curious as to why the Scotsman allows comment on this article but not on the Neil Lennon one-an almost identical incident.
What exactly is there to discuss here? I don't imagine anyone will condone this attack, so what is the issue?
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14/01/2009 02:01:04
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Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 14/01/2009 02:01:57
English people represent more than 50% of non-scots in Scotland but racist attacks on them are around only 5% of the total. If you are English you ahve 1/10 of the probability of being racially attacked than others from elsewhere

Just why are the Scotsman reporting this story?
26

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 14/01/2009 02:04:19
I think this article is designed for the Scotland haters to draw tenious links between an isolated and statistically remote attack and civic nationalism.

Utterly predictable stuff from the 'Scots'man
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14/01/2009 02:04:22
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Julian.,

edinburgh 14/01/2009 02:04:30
#1 SteveG,

The fact that you have drawn conclusions from no Scots commenting on this article a few minutes after it has gone online says more about you really.

And it further casts doubt on your conclusion to warn people off coming to Scotland.
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14/01/2009 02:05:53
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14/01/2009 02:31:45
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Ray 1,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 03:27:31
Reader Steve G, UK 14/01/2009 00:31:41 said
Sorry but I have to be honest the view from the south is primarily that the Scottish have become very Xenophobic. The fact that no one from Scotland has written a comment I personally draw my own conclusions. I for one will not be reccomending a visit to scotland for my many US clients until you clean up your act!
Well I did live in the South (England) I left Scotland with my family when I was 11 to live in England but Due to the racial incidents after living in England for over 40 I have now returned to Scotland and was re housed due to the racial harassment fact.
Racial Discrimination against a Scot while in England
I contacted CRE now the Equality and Human Rights Commission several times regarding the racial the CRE said it was racist but did not offered to help me. I had a meeting with The Race Equality Centre (TREC) who are based in Leicester at their offices and the Braunstone Community Association (BCA) chief execute Mr Keith Beaumont OBE and BCA chair the Ven Richard Atkinson Archdeacon of Leicester OBE. The person who made the racist comments was a BCA director who had made the racist comments at me at a meeting, the BCA board investigated and covered the racial incident up.
There was an agreement made that I would receive a written apology from the BCA for that racial incident yet the BCA have never honoured that agreement. I complained to TREC that they had not done their job i.e. making sure I received the agreed apology for that racial incident. I also complained to TREC`s funders, TREC`s response was they would not chase up the BCA for the agreed racial apology unless I withdrew my complaints to their funders, I did not withdraw my complaints from their funders and TREC`s response was “why should we help you” this is recorded on video at the meeting.
I can only assume because I asked for help and being a white Scot one of the indigenous race of the UK that we whites are not discriminated enough to ge
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Ray 1,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 03:30:02
Second Part
I can only assume because I asked for help and being a white Scot one of the indigenous race of the UK that we whites are not discriminated enough to get help and support from the race relation organisations. Yet this Asian Officer who did not contact the Equality and Human Rights Commission can get all the help for a racist comment without asking, who are the MUGS?
There was a whole number of racial incidents when I was a BCA director the perpetrators are still BCA directors three of those directors are now Labour Councillors. One of those Councillors is Ms Anne Glover who is mentioned in the Prime Minister Book or Heroes told a Liberal Democrat Councillor Dale Keeling I was a Scots B*****d yet again I complained to the Leicester City Council, Liberal Democrat Candidate Mr Ian Bradwell “who is blind” sent a statement to the Council regarding Ms Anne Glovers racist comments but his statement was ignored. Considering Councillor Dale Keeling had informed the Liberal Democrat leader Mr Peter Coley, Liberal Democrat Chair Mr Bernard Greaves that Ms Anne Glover called me a Scots B*****d they have been very silent that does not say much about their sense of duty. I understand Mr Ian Bradwell who is blind and knows what it is like to be discriminated has been ignored by his party members since bring this issues up at the meetings is resigning from the Leicester Liberal Democrats in disgust at their attitude in not condemning the racist remarks and their not opposing the racial discrimination issues.
Labour Councillor Ms Anne Glover told Liberal Councillor Dale Keeling that she
hated me and told him I was a Scots B*****d, had Ms Glover referred to an Asian or black person in the same tone of language this would be considered as racist language. It seems the Leicester City Council will not ask the Liberal Councillor Dale Keeling or Mr Ian Bradwell about their statements in support of me to be investigated, their Service Director - Legal Services Mr Pe
34

Ray 1,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 03:33:55
E-Mail to my MP

Dear Mr Mcfall

I e-mailed you at john.mcfall@blueyonder.co.uk on the 16 November 2008 regarding my experience with the Northampton Police in England about Racial Discrimination and was looking for your help but un fortunately you did not reply to me.

I have just received a letter from the Northampton police regarding the outcome of my complaint and my complaint has been upheld against the Northampton police.

I am informed that member of Northampton police staff would receive:

1. Counselling to be given to the member of police staff.

2. The member of police staff concerned to be retrained in the standard required for submitting reports of collisions made by the public.

My thoughts were “counselling for the police employee and retraining ???????” My first thought after reading this letter was what about me.

Considering my complaint was upheld I would have thought counselling would be offered to the victim not the perpetrator? Another point there is no mention of why I was treated in the way I was or any explanation that the racial element of my complaint had been investigated.

On the 13 January 09 watching news on television there was a report saying a woman was assaulted in Aberdeen because she was English and spoke with an English accent the Grampian police are treating this as a racial crime.

I would say that the driver who hit my vehicle had already told your member of police staff that I was Scots as she said when I was talking to her “so you are the gentleman” the Northampton police should have treated my complaint as a racist incident or is it the case there is one law for the English and another for the Scots.

Another is I have, on the 04 January 2009 I e-mailed the Northampton Professional Standards Dept Case Investigation Manager Geoff Gascoigne and reminded Mr Geoff Gascoigne, he had offered to contact my solicitor and explain why the member of police staff did not take any of my details when I went
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Ray 1,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 03:36:56
Second Part

when I went to the police station. I also asked him if he could supply the other drivers name and a reference number for the other driver and asked him to pass this information onto my solicitor but un-fortunately I have had no response.

So once again I ask you as my MP to intervene on my beheld and contact the Northampton police and ask why there was no investigation into the racial element of my complaint that I made against that member of police staff, I hope that will not be a problem for you and I do hope I receive a reply from you this time.

Is this the way the English Police treat the Scots who visit England is this called English Justice?



36

Snuffy Ivy,

Aberdeen 14/01/2009 04:13:27
#1 As an Aberdonian, I am shocked by this story.

Regardless of the circumstances, this kind of behaviour is inexcusable and unwarranted. While it may sound all good and well for someone (#8) to suggest "there may be more to the story..." does not excuse this kind of yobbish attitude towards another human being. The lady's accent was quite possibly superfluous to the incident. (We're talking about a drunken monster loose on the city streets here). I hope the perpetrator(s) are caught and jailed for attempted murder.

This story is a sad indictment of the prevailing attitude amongst racist scum possessing a loser mentality. It cannot be excused. Unfortunately, these kind of activities by drunken Aberdonian brain-dead yobos are on the increase. This kind of violence makes me ashamed to be referred to as an Aberdonian.
37

fair scunnered,

edinburgh 14/01/2009 04:22:27
ray1 sorry you had to put up with a numpty socialist,if you had called her an english b*****d you would have felt the full force of the law on you,also i blame the EBC(BBC)as when they want a drunk/psycho/murderer etc its always a scotsman/woman
stereo typing ,east enders is one of the worst
the attack on a young woman,whether they be english or not,is a low dispicable act,how would that tumshie for brains attacker ,feel if his mother/sister/wife got the same treatment?
by highlighting the fact that she was attacked ,because of an english accent,smacks of underhand tactics ,to discredit scots etc,so that liberal/tory /lazybour get elected instead
any man hitting a woman isnt a man ,hes as low as a slug,with cow turds for brains
38

Helen,

14/01/2009 04:45:01
I'm English and have lived in Scotland for over 14 years. I had my car windscreen smashed during the World Cup simply because I had a small England novelty on my rear view mirror. Growing up in England no-one even considered supporting 'whoever Scotland are playing' just for the sake of it, yet before an international game which involved England, I had someone in my face snarling that 'I hope your team gets f***ed'. I barely know this person and I hadn't even mentioned the football. Next time I will go to the police and have him charged with racially aggravated behaviour.
39

obeone,

14/01/2009 05:13:06
What a surprise, stoking up nationalist sentiment causes racist violence, who'd of thought it???

Salmond must be pleased
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KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 14/01/2009 05:28:44
In Aberdeen last year 429 racially aggravated incidents were reported, 25 of which involved attacks on English people. Not one of those incidents where worthy of coverage by the British Press. So why is this one being highlighted? Is it to beat the Scots with the Nationalist stick? Is it because the victim is attractive, young, female, white and English? If she had been attractive, young, female, brown and South Asian would this story even make the papers?
The reason the press carries this is it is a "Man Bites Dog" story. After hundreds of years of victimizing other Nationalities the English are now the victims of racism themselves.
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Pilrig,

Livingston 14/01/2009 06:00:36
39 not the most sensible post of the day so far
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Sandra Paterson,

Aberdeen 14/01/2009 06:04:30
This attack is terrible, and the poor lassie might have permanent injuries. Union street is covered with CCTV cameras and it should not be too hard for the police to look at this incident and, hopefully catch the attacker. Interestingly, I saw this woman talking on North Tonight, and try as hard as I could, I could not detect any English accent at all. She has lived here since she was five, and to me, has the same accent as my daughter (22) and many of her friends. I would never have guessed she was English.
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Rufus-T-Firefly,

14/01/2009 06:26:45
So the worst place for racist attacks is Aberdeenshire?

Hmmmmm. Interesting.

On a seperate topic, Aberdeenshire Scot has not been on here for a while.
44

dougie1976,

14/01/2009 06:39:23
Very sad. Yet another day that I have to go to work and try to distance myself from the idiotic and vile behaviour of my fellow country "men".
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Rufus-T-Firefly,

14/01/2009 06:42:54
Lucy was just on the radio talking about her shocking ordeal.

She definitely has an English accent and this was definitely a racist attack judging by what she said.
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Angleland Isover,

14/01/2009 06:46:06
Attacked by an arhole not a nationalist so whats the point of the story.
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Sandra Paterson,

Aberdeen 14/01/2009 06:53:58
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/69606-msps-debate-hate-crime-while-police-investigate-attack-on-english-woman/

I can't hear it. The Aberdeen accent is not like Glaswegian and there is broad Aberdeen, and refined Aberdeen, and refined Aberdeen is what her accent is.
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Ray Miles,

UK 14/01/2009 07:15:09
I think you are being a little naive here, on the whole the Scots are no more or less racist than any other group of people in the UK, however they do have an issue when it comes to the English. One only needs to witness how many Scottish people behave when there is a sporting event involving the English to guess how things could develop once alcohol is added to the mix. It not just that they would never under any circumstances support an English team, it is the venom of their anger that makes you realise that many Scots have a bit of an issue with the English.

It is my experience that this attitude is not reciprocated south of the border.
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greenhill,

14/01/2009 07:19:13
There is a noticable anti English culture in Scotland.It often rises to the surface in relation to football when many Scots love to blow out of proportion and take offence at remarks deemend to insensitive to us. We also have too many fools who regard medieval maniacs as national heros.

Against that background it should come as no surprise that this sort of thing takes place from time to time.
This attack is an absolute disgrace.
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Sandra Paterson,

Aberdeen 14/01/2009 07:22:48
48:
I don't know about sporting events, but years ago, my brother went to work at Vickers in Barrow. He was accepted well, though, made fun of for his broad NE Scotland accent. When Vickers started to lay off workers, and he was kept on, he definitely was a target of quite nasty racial abuse by the English, for taking their jobs. This happened at work, on the streets and in pubs. He eventually got another job in Manchester, and still works there, commuting from Barrow.
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14/01/2009 07:25:19
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Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 07:25:19

I wonder which political party the attackers support?

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14/01/2009 07:27:29
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Kate,

Zurich 14/01/2009 07:38:55
Dekester,
The suspect sure sounds like a coward. However out at 0200, likely intoxicated.

You are implying that because the assailant was drunk it is excusable to assault a young woman with no provocation at all! That is sad, very sad and totally unacceptable.

Lucy, I'm a Scot, living abroad since 1993 and I have had verbal abuse about being a foreigner. I'm ashamed and embarassed by the treatment you have received, both the physical attack and the relativisation by some of the comments posted here.

I hope you get well soon and recognise that not all Scots are like this. I also hope that the coward who did this gets everything he deserves and then some!

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greenhill,

14/01/2009 07:38:56
You call yourself "A genuine account" when in reality you are a genuine walloper.

First you blame the media for reporting the story. Then you advertise your anti English predudice.
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14/01/2009 07:39:38
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Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 07:41:29
This guy is dispicable. People like this need to be rooted out and "re-educated".

This is no way to shape a modern Scotland and the sooner we get independence the better so we can rub along better with our Southern cousins.
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Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 07:43:13
53 Stan Butler,

None. The guy wouldn't have the intelligence to follow politics.
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Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 14/01/2009 07:48:20
I think the bigger story is why other foreigners are 10 more likely to be racially attacked than the English (according to the story). Seems like a disgraceful lack of tolerance for other outsiders or an amazing tolerance of the poms.

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Ross,

Athens 14/01/2009 07:50:07
It is a shame for the girl, this is not acceptable.
However the same thing happens all over the world, it just takes someone to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I think it is wrong to generalise and say all Scot have a problem as some people have commented on here.
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Andrew Scalloway,

Stirling 14/01/2009 07:53:11
Some of the comments here are racist in themselves. Maisie from Edinburgh and Kampung Highlander hang your heads. Of course this is a story. The irony is this young woman has lived most of her life in Scotland and probably thinks of herself as Scottish...well maybe not now. This is what nationalism leads to, illogical violence and hatred.
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Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 07:53:18
Glasgow is the stab capital of Europe. One thing going for that stat is that the Glasgow ned and blade is not racist. They would stab anybody for any reason.
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Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 07:54:29
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Is that Scottish Nationalism or British Nationalism? The latter impacted the World over with racism.
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Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 07:55:36

63 You don't need intelligence to engage in, or support, nationalist politics. That's the point of it. It appeals to the worst in people, on a base, sub intellectual level.

71

greenhill,

14/01/2009 07:56:16
RE Ross,Athens 14/01/2009 07:50:07


So racism happens all over the World and that means we do not have a problem ? What sort of logic is that. We do have a problem and it has to confronted.

Disease also happens all over the world so does that mean we should have no doctors, NHS,innoculations, research etc.

72

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 07:56:49
71

Yup, that British Nationalism for you. The lowest common denominator. Time for Scotland to distance ourselves from such intent.
73

alsirat,

Edinburgh 14/01/2009 07:57:50
I have lived in Scotland for nearly 30 years, and have never once had any trouble, despite having a pronounced Birmingham accent. On the other hand, I am not a slightly built lassie, but a 13 stone ex-para. Perhaps that has something to do with it.
74

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14/01/2009 07:58:57
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,

14/01/2009 07:59:43
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14/01/2009 08:01:20
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14/01/2009 08:03:17
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Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 08:03:44

#75 'Most people are inherently racist'

Rubbish.

You think babies are born pre-programmed to be racist?

If you do you're an idiot.
79

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14/01/2009 08:07:42
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14/01/2009 08:09:23
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Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 08:09:53
79

Yes. We are pre-programmed to not like anything that is different. Psychology 101 at basic level would teach you that which is why kids are the cruelest until taught otherwise.

Nature versus Nurture. You don't have kids, do you?
82

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14/01/2009 08:11:11
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greenhill,

14/01/2009 08:11:19
RE "genuine account":14/01/2009 08:07:42


So she gets told "Get back to f****** England." and you say it is not a racist attack.Let's face it you are a racist lowlife.
84

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14/01/2009 08:12:48
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john z,

edinburgh 14/01/2009 08:13:38
Very sad to see this poor girl 'beat up'. For whatever reason, the guy was just a thug of the worst kind. But as a matter of reference regarding Scottish/english racism, having previously lived in southern england, I can say with confidence, the very same thing happens in reverse down in england.

As regards Scottish/english racism, I would argue that the fact that there are fewer than 50 MPs representing Scotland in the Westmnster parliament of over 640 seats, it is quite clearly institutionalised anti -scottish racism.

In fact, the discredited undemocratic english union is a pure personification of the phrase 'institutionalised racism'.
86

T M,

LA, USA 14/01/2009 08:13:41
If the victim is Caucasian, and the attacker is Caucasian, how is this racist?
87

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14/01/2009 08:14:52
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Navvy,

Stirling 14/01/2009 08:16:05
10 years hard labour for him

Aberdeen owes its oil prosperity to foreign skills

Ignorant and stupid people
89

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14/01/2009 08:19:05
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John Cameron,

St Andrews 14/01/2009 08:19:40
This is the BIG problem north of the border. Scots such as myself with English wives know the real racism in Scotland is directed at the Anglos. Braveheart, the racist drivel produced by our favourite Australian dwarf, is regarded by the uneducated Scottish head-bangers as a documentary. Our national socialist leadership will address any racial or religious problem except the one that really matters.
91

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 08:19:47


#82 I have children. And grandchildren.

And my education didn't end with Psychology 101.

I assume, following your logic, that you don't like women.

#81 Can I suggest that you find out what 'inherently' means. The fact that many people hold racist views does not mean that they were born with racist views.

92

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 08:22:08
92

I learned to love wimmin as my sexual desires grew going into puberty.

As you will know, all young boys say "yuch" with regards girls.

Back to school for you I think.
93

Rambo The Jambo,

14/01/2009 08:30:54
#
1 Steve G,UK

Then you are a racist and we do not need you or your clients.

England is a far more dangerous place for anyone with a skin colour other than white.

Would you advocate sending your supposed 'US' clients to Bradford, for example? Or maybe Haringey or Peckham?

Keep your comments to yourself in future.
94

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14/01/2009 08:31:27
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14/01/2009 08:32:56
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Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 08:32:58


#93 you said at #82 'We are pre-programmed to not like anything that is different.'

How come you like women? Are they not different to you? Are you not pre-programmed to dislike them?

97

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 08:34:20
95

Exactly. Nature Versus Nurture. And as I said before, this numpty that attacked that poor lass needs "re-educated" or required better nurturing as a youngster.
98

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14/01/2009 08:35:13
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Donnie Murdo,

Westyern Isles 14/01/2009 08:35:16
97

I refer you to 93.

Sorry, but you have lost the argument and will do so over and over again. Please stop.
100

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 08:39:13

#95 'Predudice (sic) exists in all of us its part of our DNA and its very human and normal.'

Are you able to tell us which part of the double helix contains 'predudice'? Or are you just spouting ignorant nonsense?

101

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14/01/2009 08:40:02
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Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 08:41:04
102

Until they entirely map the human genome, the only rubbish spouting being done is by you.
103

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14/01/2009 08:41:25
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Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 08:41:35

#101 you haven't answered my question.

Why not?

Perhaps you're pre-programmed not to be able to think for yourself.
105

Guy Wersh,

Eccy Byde 14/01/2009 08:43:39
The guy's lower than a snakes belly.
Can anyone confirm or refute my suspicion that 'The Law' doesn't see the English and the Scots as distinct races and so doesn't recognize attacks such as these as being covered by racism legislation?
106

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14/01/2009 08:43:42
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Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 08:43:46
106

What part of "I learned to love wimmin as my sexual desires grew going into puberty.

As you will know, all young boys say "yuch" with regards girls." do you not understand?

Man you are dumb.
108

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14/01/2009 08:44:37
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Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 08:46:06

Were human beings pre-programmed to believe that the world was flat?

Were human beings pre-programmed to think that Africans were sub human and could therefore be used as slaves?
110

greenhill,

14/01/2009 08:46:58
RE:A genuine account,14/01/2009 08:40:02 :-"What is the history of these guys were they themselves victims of discrimination in England perhaps?
Do they have psychological problems?
A history of psychological problems?
Are they on medication?"

Ah now I see the attackers are victims and we should all feel so sorry for them.

YA WALLOPER
111

Alastair the First,

14/01/2009 08:47:42
A thug is a thug. The sort of person who would do this sort of thing is from the lower end of the food chain, the place where racism and xenophobia breed easily. Whatever their personal circumstances, they should be locked up for a very very long time.
112

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14/01/2009 08:48:24
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Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 08:49:22

'We are pre-programmed to not like anything that is different.'

Is this official SNP policy?

Are we pre-programmed not to like Jews? Or Gypsies?
114

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 08:51:17
113

I second your comment. It is constructive unlike some other comments here.
115

Duncan in Edinburgh,

14/01/2009 08:58:48
Of course Scottish nationalists are at pains to distance themselves from this behaviour. In the same way, Roman Catholic cardinals are keen to distance themselves from gay-bashings. But there are plenty of easily led, simple-minded people out there whose hatred can be easily whipped up by a political campaign.

Saying "gay people are an abomination" is not a call for them to be beaten, but it serves to significantly bolster the resolve of those who are looking for a fight. Similarly, talking about the "butcher's apron" and claiming that the only "real Scots" are those who support independence from the UK is not a call for violence - but it serves to significantly bolster those who are already looking for a fight.

This is the danger of fundamentalist nationalism, just as it is the danger of fundamentalist religion. Simple people take simple messages and turn them into direct action. Nationalist propaganda is responsible for this attack, as surely as religious propaganda is responsible for gay-bashings.
116

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 09:00:39
56

I think you have a point. I have travelled all over the world for work and pleasure and have been met with all sorts of prejudice because they thought I was English (which changed the instant I told them I was Scottish).

Indeed, I was in Amsterdam for new year and while trying to get into a pub, was asked my nationality. I told them I was Scottish and they allowed me in, one of my colleagues told them he was English and he was barred.

Suffice to say we left that place and moved on.

However, anecdotal evidence won't stand up to any sort of scrutiny as we all have stories to tell.
117

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 09:02:23
Duncan

The behaviour as reported in the article has being going on long beofre the SNP or indeed "nationalism" was here.

What's the difference between Brit Nationalism and Scot Nationalism apart from the international racism bisplayed by Britain over the centuries?
118

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 09:03:51

#118 'Saying "gay people are an abomination"'

Who said that?

Do you have a source?

119

Duncan in Edinburgh,

14/01/2009 09:05:23
#120 You're right that this behaviour has been going on for a long time. I didn't say it was new - I said it was bolstered by fundamentalist nationalism. I think that is perfectly self-evident.

I am not in the business of defending any forms of fundamentalist nationalism - Scottish, British or otherwise.
120

Duncan in Edinburgh,

14/01/2009 09:06:20
#121 Cardinal Tom Winning, among many others. Do you have a point?
121

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 09:07:32
123

Ok, fair comment but do you not draw some sort of national idendity from the UK in some way or are you of the opinion you are a citizen of the World?

Just asking, no trick question here.
122

salmondella,

UK 14/01/2009 09:09:07
Scotland is more divided than i can remember in my lifetime. My wife, who is English, also can see a difference in Scotland over the past few years -all this is, in my opinion, been fuelled by nationalism which is a poison on society. Last year she was verbally abused in a West of Scotland pub because she wore a Runrig T shirt and spoke with an English language which was not to the liking of local neds. I pulled up these neds in my own Niddrie style and was called a traitor! The vast majority of Scottish people are tolerant and friendly but I am convinced that there is a growing number of people who think that because they support independence for Scotland they can be abusive to English people to the point of being racist.
123

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 09:10:39

# 124 can you provide a source for that quote? Or are you paraphrasing?
124

Duncan in Edinburgh,

14/01/2009 09:12:08
I draw national identity from Scotland, from the UK and in some minor ways I suppose from Europe; there is nothing wrong, in my opinion, with feelings of national identity. The problems stem from those who would divide us along such lines - like the many posters hereabouts who talk in terms of "real Scots". That is what I mean by fundamentalist nationalism - those who would apply national identity as the yardstick for every comparison.

Sorry, have to go now.
125

greenhill,

14/01/2009 09:12:31
Quote for those who may have skipped this part of the story:

"I am originally from Cheltenham, but I have stayed in Gourdon for 16 years and a lot of my friends say I sound really English when I've had a drink or I'm with my mum and dad.
126

Jack and the Bean Stalk,

LONDON 14/01/2009 09:14:47
This is an appalling crime inflicted on an innocent person. I hope she gets better soon. I know that this is racism pure and simple. I am of Indian extraction who worked in Aberdeen in 1980s and know about the kind of verbal abuse hurled at me directly and more often indirectly. My English colleagues in the university where I was an academic had to tolerate much worse innuendos directed at them by even Scottish colleagues. I studied and worked in USA during 1960s, the segregation period, and never had such experience. I found that the English were more maligned than a brown man like me! This is in a place like Aberdeen where the oil and the engineering industry needing people with skills,the universities wanting students and staff from all over the UK and abroad and this attitude in Union Street which I and my English colleagues experienced was surprising indeed. It does something about the 'bunker mind set'.

My son was born in Scotland and I have many close friends there. Scots have migrated all over the world and are exceptionally enterprising. But in their own native country, like Aberdeen, I found quite a few of them them to be insular, angry at some one else- foreigners like the English and me. They have a large percentage of public sector, many are dependent on their state in much larger percentage than anywhere in England and possibly in Europe, and this perhaps is the reason why they think that the English and me were the undesirables. We were contributing to their economy in may ways intellectually and through taxes. This was in 1980. With 5 million people, and needing people with with skills, this attitude can only harm them in the long run.
127

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 14/01/2009 09:16:38
Nationalism and hatred of 'the others' has been used for centuries to whip up cannon fodder in countless wars - and the technique is still alive and kicking.
I lived in Edinburgh at the time when a young English lad from Balerno was beaten to death by his own Scottish school-mates after they had just seen the film Braveheart. They came out all psyched up with imaginary hatred of 'the English' - from Mel Gibson's ludicrous re-telling of the Wallace myth - and they just met this kid on his way home. He was English - so they beat him to death. these were not 'schemies' or neds - one of them was the son of a very senior Lothian police commander. It was all bundled away into the long grass; the kids got a spell in a young offender's institution - and were back on the career path in two or three years. The extreme nationalists in Scotland have always fostered hatred of their nearest neighbours - because it is the cheapest way to solicit votes from the ignorant, the drunk and the hopeless in society. The tolerance and diversity camouflage applied in recent years fools nobody - and anyone who ever attends any sporting event involving England and Scotland sees the beast slavering and raving in the streets. It hasn't died and the nationalists of the ' folk of oor blood' feed the beast at every opportunity.

128

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 14/01/2009 09:19:01
I heard Lucy on the radio yesterday, and she seems to have pretty much lost much of her English accent (although she said herself that there were some words/phrases which might come across in a English accent), and the whole incident is deplorable and shouldn't have happened. It shouldn't be too difficult to apprehend the assailant and hopefully he'll get his come-uppance in court. But why, oh why if, as Lucy says, she didn't even think he was speaking to her, did she turn round? Best just to keep walking girl!
129

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 09:20:06
#10 Newton, My thoughts exactly, no comment allowed against Israel's slaughter of innocent women and children but fire away at a Scottish thug.

Clearly this paper hopes the SNP will be blamed.
The fact is, as we see with the Neil Lennon case, we have more than our fair share of scum.

The coward who attacked this woman falls into that catagory. Now then Scotsman, how about some articles on the violence shown to Scots in England?plenty of cases too choose from. No ? I thought not.

Just check out the English media for more info.
130

Mr Lahey,

Edinburgh 14/01/2009 09:24:08
Well all I can say in my personal experience of living here for 8 years I find the Scots generally racist towards the English. I've always been made to feel and outsider and un-welcome here. Scotland like people who are ABE "anything but English" I'm afraid and with a Nationalist government that is not going to change any time soon. It is the upper echelons of Scots society that needs to change and become less elitist and more open if real change is to come.
Remember this is a country where people from the East hate the West so its no surprise that in some quarters you will have rare cases like this attack.
Statistically Scotland is a disproportionately violent place with more people per head of the population in prison than in England and a serious booze problem, which causes most of the violence.
131

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 09:24:14
130 Duncan, running away again I see. Tell me how do you explain the attack on Neil Lennon?

Is that not the fault of British Nationalism ? or did he deserve it for being a "stinking paddy".
132

Lianachan,

Highlands 14/01/2009 09:29:48
I completely agree with the comments by Dougie Douglas, particularly at #26.
133

Joanna,

Cambs, England 14/01/2009 09:32:33
Very sorry to see this awful incident against this young woman. I hope she recovers mentally and emotionally once the bruises have gone.

The person who did this is a coward, those who defend him are also cowards. These kind of attacks are always against weaker members of society or by gangs against an individual. In this case it was probably fuelled by alchohol but that is not always so.

I spent all my primary school years in Scotland in the 60s and 70s, I have always spoken with an English accent and I cannot remember being hated or even excluded because of it. I have happy memories of my schooldays. Over the years, since, I have lived, at times, in Scotland and visited my Scottish relatives in Edinburgh and the Borders on many occasions. I have noticed a change in attitude by some, thankfully not many, people I have come across. I am very sad to see this in Scotland but England has also become a more violent and less tolerant society over the years.

I think all decent people should continue to object that this is happening in our countries and ensure that we realise that there are good and bad everywhere. I think the good people of Scotland will always prevail.
134

greenhill,

14/01/2009 09:32:47
I have got a "mixed" accent myself. I have lived all my life in Glasgow but my mum was from the North East.

Some say I have a Glasgow accent others claim I sound like I come from the North.I am also told I have more of a Glasgow accent when I have had a drink. I know what she is talking about.
135

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 14/01/2009 09:33:06
First of all IF we are getting the full facts its a terrible thing for the girl.

However, street voilence after too much alochol is never normally quite that simple.

Fact is, scotland has a terrible bevvy addiction, witness the outcries in the story yesterday about not being able to drink for 900 seconds of a football match.

whatever happened , i hope she gets well soon.
136

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14/01/2009 09:34:53
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137

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 09:36:44

Perhaps the attack wasn't racially motivated.

Perhaps the attacker was just a big fan of sir Sean Connery and thought that his victim was one of these "There are women who take it to the wire. That's what they are looking for, the ultimate confrontation. They want a smack."

PS maybe best not to comment on Neil Lennon case, given that the trial is live.
138

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 14/01/2009 09:37:20
145

Lulu is someone who deserves a punch in the face. Sorry, but its true.
139

Ross,

14/01/2009 09:39:43
No 72-
What i am saying is that one incident and everything is blown out of proportion.
The same thing happens in England to Scottish people but you don't hear much about it.
I believe other that the silly old firm fans we are generally not a racist country. We accept forigners pretty well into the country to work and we get along with them fine.
Now again as i said before, this kind of thing can happen anywhere.
And to finish off, most of the time you get scumbags who have problems in their own lives and look for an excuse to have a fight, racist comments being one of them.
140

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 09:40:38

#147 Lulu is from Dennistoun. I suspect if you punched her in the face you would end up being fed through a straw.
141

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 14/01/2009 09:41:37
I get confused between Lulu and Peggy Mitchell.
142

Garry S,

Edinburgh 14/01/2009 09:41:44
Has anyone here ever tried to spend a Scots fiver in a London pub? Institutionalised racism. While any right-thinking person would never condone this attack on this girl, Mr Lahey #137 in particular should read a little bit of Scottish history- there's nothing like a little local knowledge, and maybe you would appraise yourself of why there is lingering resentment. And maybe you should just head home as you quite evidently have no respect for the people you currently live amongst. I have lived in Edinburgh for 44 years (all my life)and never come across serious violence. As for nationalist governments, we in Scotland have had to deal with institutional Anglo-centrism and effective anti-Scottishness since 1707 and before. Time to head south, I say, Mr L.
143

yolanda,

14/01/2009 09:45:04

This attack was a disgrace, and I hope that the poor excuse for a man who did this is caught and punished severely. With the use of CCTV cameras in our cities, surely it shouldn't be too difficult to track him down.

Whether or not it wa a racially motivated attack I don't know. It doesn't matter. These kind of violent attacks happen regularly, in all sorts of places, and with or without a racial motive. More often than not they are commited by drunken aggressive idiots. Anyone, regardless of their nationality, religion, or social circumstances who inflicts this kind of injury on another human being should be dealt with harshly. I don't think the race issue is the most important one here. I hope the young woman makes a good recovery.
144

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 14/01/2009 09:46:48
152

Garry thats just wrong and you know it. You epotimise the reasons I left scotland. Too many are inward looking, obsessed by the bevvy and their little scottish pounds and obsessed by the english. Theres a big world out here, come and join us.

Problem with scotland is that it isnt cosmopolitan enough and is stuck on the edge of europe. So WHAT if someone was born a couple of hundred miles to the South ?

(its the same nation, has been for 300 years, get over it).
145

DaveK,

Edinburgh 14/01/2009 09:46:57
Having been lucky enough to spend time at a certain university in Fife with a rather large English and may I add international student body, I was also fortunate enough to rub shoulders with people who have a great deal to do with the current administration in Holyrood. The slurs and anti English sentiment exhibited by now "respectable" members of our society, were unbelievable. I have no doubt that despite spin doctors, media advisors and cunning policy writers, that these leopards have and could never change their spots. Now watch as my anecdotal comment is removed.
146

Roballe,

London 14/01/2009 09:48:03
Because of my accent, to a significant number of people in the north east of Scotland, I was always ‘the English bas....’. To others, because of the ease with which I attracted a tan, I would forever remain ‘that P*k* bas....’. It’s true the people in Aberdeenshire were significantly worse than in the city; and whilst the former (English) rejoinder was more often in jest, much of the latter was spoken with real venom. The other thing worth mentioning is that, despite my travelling abroad in some relatively difficult locations and where guns were a feature, I’ve rarely experienced violence as bad as that of Union Street on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. In those days the Aberdeen oil industry was dominated by Americans who openly referred to everyone other than themselves as ‘local white nig....’. You learned to develop a thick skin.
147

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 09:48:08

#152 'Has anyone here ever tried to spend a Scots fiver in a London pub? Institutionalised racism'

Yeah, that's right up there with the Holocaust, isn't it?

Do you think there might be a more rational explanation than racism for London bar staff being reluctant to accept bank notes they are not familiar with? Like being concerned that the notes might be forged?

148

greenhill,

14/01/2009 09:48:21
The idiots perception was that she was English.It was racially motivated.
149

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 09:56:39
#144 As usual Vinny your posts are pure drivel. I did condem the violence shown by referring to the attacker as Scum. I condone all violence of this nature regardless of the victim's nationality.

Your pathetic mock outrage coupled with your hilarious ignorance, as displayed yesterday, simply goes to demonstrate the depth of your stupidity.

How dare I point out that this goes on south of the border . How dare I cast aspertions on your heros.
I suppose I should condem the Scottish thug and leave it at that. After all, it's only Scots who get up to this kind of disgusting behaviour, and nationalists at that. Is that it?
150

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 10:01:37
#159 Get your english paranoia in check. No one is saying Scotland's the victim here . What's wrong with you people. As for there being no "Anti-Scottish" culture in England, well that takes some believing.

You won't even accept our bank notes you pleb! This was an isolated incident which does not reflect an "Anti english" culture. Coming from a country famous for it's racist murders, that accusation is simply naked hypocrasy.
151

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 14/01/2009 10:02:03
This is an example of racism...

Refering to someone from Pakistan as a "Pakki" is not. Before the politically correct do-gooders start stirring up dissent where it doesn't exist, perhaps they should start looking on their own doorstep.

Let's hope the girl makes a full recovery.
152

greenhill,

14/01/2009 10:07:00
RE Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,Edinburgh 14/01/2009 10:02:03


You are correct this is real racism.
153

refuge,

out of scotland 14/01/2009 10:07:31
Agree with 156 that having spent the past 25 years all over the world I am amazed that central Aberdeen is one of the most violent places I have seen. Pathetic casual violence and casual racism seem to be a fact of life up there. Avoid the place if you can. Let the locals have it to themselves, they seem to deserve it.
154

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 10:08:12
#164 OH Don't spoil it for them.
155

Lianachan,

Highlands 14/01/2009 10:08:59
It's wonderfully ironic that so many of the comments here exhibit anti-Scottish racism.

Yes, the attack was terrible and inexcusable - like any drunken, wee hours of the morning attack.

Let's not get it out of perspective, though. It's not evidence of a rise in ant-English racism or anything like that. Number6 and Dougie Douglas, and others, are completely correct.

The Scotsman, by reporting this story in the way that it did and by allowing comments - not something it generally does for crime stories - is letting it's agenda show from under it's skirts.
156

Miss H,

14/01/2009 10:10:30
160 Fair point but ... in this case, as in many many other racist assaults, the perpetrators were drunk and it happened in the wee small hours after people were coming out of clubs/pubs.

There are 2 key actions that require to be taken to reduce such incidents.

1. More police on the streets, especially when the clubs and pubs are emptying. That is already happening in the Strathclyde Police force area,where in fact the whole service is being reconfigured to increase the numbers of officers on the beat, and it is already making a difference. Perhaps Grampian Police need to be given a gentle kick in the same direction.

2. We need to get a lot tougher on drunkenness. There is a big debate obviously on how we do that - everyone does not agree with the SNP's proposals - but surely incidents such as this reinforce why the SNP are right to say that we need to be a bit more radical about tackling the scourge of drunkenness than we have been up until now.
157

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14/01/2009 10:10:43
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158

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 14/01/2009 10:11:24
Banknotes, squint bananas and Prawn cocktail crisps.

When was the last time you accepted a Bank of Ulster fiver ?
159

Churchill W.,

14/01/2009 10:11:48
This is the legacy of Salmond's SNPs anti-English agitation. This attack will lead to retaliatory attacks on Scottish people in England now that it is headlines on the Daily Mail. The benefit for Salmond and his crew is that it will engender more grievance with the English in Scotland, Salmond hoping that it will translate into votes for the SNP. This underlines the cynicism of Salmond's independence campaign.

Nationalism always leads to Fascism.

160

Joanna,

Cambs, England 14/01/2009 10:13:06
I have had no problems spending Scottish banknotes in this area. They spend just as well as the English ones and you can buy just as many pairs of shoes with them.

I do not frequent London pubs so I cannot speak for them, but a lot of the bar-staff are not of British extraction and may only recognise B of E banknotes. A failure of their management certainly but perhaps not intentionally vindictive.
161

Miss H,

14/01/2009 10:13:49
168 Fair point. An Asian taxi driver of my acquaintance was recently dragged out of his taxi when he stopped at a red light and beaten almost to death by a gang of youths. He was very lucky not to be permanently blinded as they tried to gouge his eyes out. The incident was not reported anywhere.
162

Miss H,

14/01/2009 10:21:29
40 Well yes, of course that is why it is being reported.

That doesn't automatically mean that there is a political agenda.

For any incident to be newsworthy it must be out of the ordinary, as this one is.
163

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 10:21:35
#170 Vinny what are you gibbering about now ???

I dont "Unconditionally condem" ... EH ????.

How clear do I have to make it ? I condem this attack 100%. But of course, that does not suit your agenda so you will simply ignore it. Get a life for goodness sake.
164

Miss H,

14/01/2009 10:22:39
45 No she doesn't.

She has a north east accent.
165

Matt there,

Somewhere 14/01/2009 10:22:55
It is to be hoped that a friend of this 'man' will prove to be a true friend to him and report him to the police.

I wonder what excuse he uses when he beats his wife/girlfriend?
166

Paul R,

14/01/2009 10:23:48
The quicker they catch the culprit the better. there is no place for this kind of behaviour in Scotland. I don't understand all this anti-English feeling, we are all part of the UK and there never seems to be any anti-Scottish behaviour in England/Wales.

She was a pretty girl, what a shame for her.
167

,

14/01/2009 10:25:33
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168

Scythia,

14/01/2009 10:25:38
My deepest sympathy for the young lady, but this is thuggery probably motivated by anti-English prejudice- it is axiomatically NOT racism

Moreover , there are plenty of organisations only too willing to exaggerate and amplify these "race" differences - the BBC and the Race Industry hustlers in particular have a fine track record here.

Perhaps the real reason for the furore and the boundless publicity, was inadverently articulated in the statement by the Race Industry jobsworth.

"..Because the numbers of minority people have gone up so much, I think everyone appreciates that there are some tensions now."

Time the BBC and the politicians address the real issue.


169

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 14/01/2009 10:29:55
Like it or not this is part and parcel of a growing anglophobia, encouraged albeit unwittingly by the attitude of prominent politicians who should know better.
170

,

14/01/2009 10:32:51
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171

Miss H,

14/01/2009 10:37:03
118 Duncan.

You blame the SNP for racist attacks on English people because the SNP supports independence for Scotland. (So do the Greens and the socialists but we will leave that to one side).

Applying your logic which political party - or parties - do you hold accountable for the many thousands of attacks directed at Muslim Asian people. Such as, for example, my Asian taxi driver friend who was nearly blinded?

How responsible do you feel, for example, the Labour Party are, with their unwavering support for the war on terror and their increasingly racist rhetoric - British jobs for British workers etc?

I don't expect an answer to this one because it is a stupid question - just as your post was rather stupid.
172

Lianachan,

Highlands 14/01/2009 10:37:13
#180 However, do you think there would have been 174 posts before 10.30 had it been Miss H's taxi driver acquintance? I don't think so, do you?

Indeed not, and that is exactly my point. This story is being presented so as to try to depict Scottish nationalism as a nasty, dangerous thing that leads to this sort of attack - and comments are (unsually for a crime story) being allowed for precisely that reason, to further stoke the ant-SNP fire. It's incredibly transparent.
173

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 14/01/2009 10:43:00
Why cant we all just get along.
174

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 10:45:00
Vinny, I am not obliged to "Unconditionally condem" any attack, but I do. Your stamping your feet because I dared insinuate that Scots are not the only ones guilty of racist attacks . Incidentally there seems to be a large school of thought that says this was not a racist attack . Where will that leave you if it is proven to nothing but a drunken attack by a piece of scum?

That's something that happens all over the UK on a regular basis.Your pathalogical fear of independence, and the responsibility that would bring, shines brightly.

There's nothing you can say that alters that fact.
Why are you getting so upset at me pointing it out?
175

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 10:47:00

#178 'I wonder what excuse he uses when he beats his wife/girlfriend?'

Possibly the same one that fat Eck's bestest pal sir Sean Connery uses.

"There are women who take it to the wire. That's what they are looking for, the ultimate confrontation. They want a smack."
176

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 10:47:46
OOPs That last sentence is in the wrong place (Riddie)
177

Miss H,

14/01/2009 10:47:59
184 What surprises you about my comments?

I have not questioned whether it was a racially motivated attack. If the police say it was then it was.

I simply pointed out that the reason it is newsworthy is a) the victim was a woman - most victims of racially motivated attacks are men - and b) she was English - most victims of racially motivated attacks are of Asian origin.

178

greenhill,

14/01/2009 10:48:52
RE Scythia,14/01/2009 10:25:38:- "My deepest sympathy for the young lady, but this is thuggery probably motivated by anti-English prejudice- it is axiomatically NOT racism."

Well really, that is just evasive pedantry. Racism applies to colour,nationality,descent and ethnicity. Your point is rather foolish.
179

Eric D,

Alba 14/01/2009 10:49:19
I notice the police never gave the race of the perpetuator , are we therefore to assume only whites can be racist ?
180

Mikey,

14/01/2009 10:49:34
There are racists in every country, including Scotland. This story, while regretable, is just an invitation for anti Scottish, vile little racists like RTF and his alter egos to insult their own people.

I thoroughly detest the fact that this woman was battered for 'being English.' I do however, accept that this cancer needs to be rooted out. Unfortunately, most racists are, like Rufus and his alter egos, just too stupid to see their racism for what it is.

Let's drive ALL the racists out of Scotland and that includes the vilest of them all, those who are racist to their own!!
181

Goat Boy,

14/01/2009 10:49:54
I returned to Scotland in the 70s having spent most of my younger days in England because my father was serving in the forces. I endured a fair amount of verbal and physical abuse at school because I had an English accent. Over the years, I have noticed that the anti English attitude has generally eased, but it appears to be making a come back, thanks to the SNPs talk of independence.
182

Phil the Flooter,

14/01/2009 10:53:15
This is a despicable act and for the Scots who (as always when these sort of incidents occur) attempt to justify it by making comments such as the one Kampunghighlander made 'After hundreds of years of victimizing other Nationalities the English are now the victims of racism themselves.' shame on you.
Comments such as this seems to justify this attack in some way, not recognizing the fact that an English Girl WAS attacked for being English because it jars with the 'Welcoming and friendly Scots' myth.
I am English and have lived in Scotland for 50 years and I can tell you hatred/dislike of English people because of their heritage is common. Incidentally where Guga 11's comment? probably rubbing his hands in glee at the moment.
183

,

14/01/2009 10:53:24
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184

greenhill,

14/01/2009 10:54:38
RE Mikey,14/01/2009 10:49:34

Those those who criticise a racist attack are being racist? What twisted logic.Shame on you.
185

MoClana,

14/01/2009 10:56:31
# 1 Lets get a litle perspective here.

Firstly - this attack is dispicable full stop.

But this kind of selective reporting to potray the Scots as racists really annoys me.

My friend went on a stag night to Blackpool 2 years ago, in the early hours of the morning 3 Englishmen heard his Scottish accent and started punching and kicking him to the ground, he hit his head of the kerb, fractured his skull and died 3 days later WHERE WAS THE REPORT ON THIS ATTACK ???

Last year whilst visiting freinds in Gloucester and during the England Scotland rugby match, which Scotland won...i was elbowed in the face when leaving the pub, by an Englishman who had heard my accent earlier.

Of course these attacks are not mentioned, they are not reported they are not collated...becuase it doesnt fit the politcal agenda of the Brittish press or state.

THis kind of one sided reporting boils my blood and is an injustce not just to Scots recially abused or murdered but to all races.

Frank Urquhart you are a disgrace !!!!
186

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 10:58:10


#197 'Let's drive ALL the racists out of Scotland and that includes the vilest of them all, those who are racist to their own!!'

Their own what?

Colour? Race? Nationality?

And how is that more vile than being racist to someone who is not 'their own'?

You are a very mixed up puppy. You need to sit down and think through where your ideas are leading.

187

,

14/01/2009 11:00:02
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188

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 14/01/2009 11:01:55
As someone pointed out, at the last census it was learned there are over 420,000 English(and Welsh) born people residing in Scotland.

What is also interesting is that at the last census for England and Wales it was found that there were over 600,000 Scots-born people residing there.

IF, you were to take the number of anti-English, anti-Welsh, or anti-Scottish incidents, I suspect they would be a miniscule of a percentage point?

The last census in the Republic of Ireland found that there were 220,000 UK nationals living there permanently. According to The Irish Times, the vast majority of them are English and there are rarely any anti-British/English incidents reported in Ireland?
189

oder,

Scotland 14/01/2009 11:06:17
pathetic! cowardly mindless thuggery to do such anything to a young girl regardless of her accent! I do hope they get this prat! if some of the posters are correct in claiming that this is caused by nationalism (I do have my doubts!) while people in higher more responsible positions in society are permitted to act in with impunity eg Seb Coe saying the Scots?..."f**k them" I wonder what part this plays in the minds of such idiots,racism may well be a crime in Britain there plenty of it around not all of it confined to Scotland,this was a plain act of thuggery!
girl in the wrong place at the right time, until this thug is caught and explains his reasons its best not to stirr it up and claim it is racism it only compounds the problem.
190

,

14/01/2009 11:07:27
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191

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 11:08:21

#205 I think you'll find that the vast majority of the English born people who have moved to Ireland will be descendants of Irish people who moved to England to find work in the 'No blacks, no dogs, no Irish' era. They regard themselves, and are regarded by the indigenous Irish, as returning home.
192

Phil the Flooter,

14/01/2009 11:10:04
56
"
I think you have a point. I have travelled all over the world for work and pleasure and have been met with all sorts of prejudice because they thought I was English (which changed the instant I told them I was Scottish).

Indeed, I was in Amsterdam for new year and while trying to get into a pub, was asked my nationality. I told them I was Scottish and they allowed me in, one of my colleagues told them he was English and he was barred.

Suffice to say we left that place and moved on.

However, anecdotal evidence won't stand up to any sort of scrutiny as we all have stories to tell."

What a heap of Lying Bo::ocks.
So being English , in 25 years of travelling the world I have NEVER been treated badly or 'Barred' from ANYWHERE because of where I was born.

Another MYTH about 'Everyone hates England' put out by Tw@ats like the above poster because it 'makes him feel better'
193

Lianachan,

Highlands 14/01/2009 11:10:24
#200 Unfortunately there are many who continually stoke anti-English sentiment - I think they are wrong to do so.

Indeed, but it's a two way street. There are many pro-union posters, and seemingly external ones, who continually stoke anti-Scottish sentiment. Post #1 on this thread, for example, seems to have leapt at the bait offered by this story. Sadly, the Scotsman seem to have been doubly successful with this story - pointless England/Scotland slagging match started, which doesn't reflect well on either side, and some people (#198) falsely linking an isolated, despicable assault on a wee lassie to a rise in Scottish nationalism.
194

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 11:13:35
194 Angry ? Me ? No way mate. Could hardly be more content. Incidentally, you've used that "Wee angry Scotsman" analagy before. It was pathetic then and it's pathetic now. Try and improve your goading techniques.
195

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 11:14:09

#189 'Why cant we all just get along.'

Well maybe if you live in a society where the economic system is based on competition that dictates what become the prevailing ideas in that society and also shapes how people think, and how they feel about each other.

196

MacGhillieBhain,

Aberdeen 14/01/2009 11:14:10
This was a most disgusting attack on an innocent young lady.Hopefully she will get over her ordeal.The scumbag who did this was looking for a victim and this woman was in the wrong place at the wrong time.It wouldn't have mattered what nationality she was,as she/he was to be assaulted. No doubt, this individual will be recognised and will get his just desserts.
197

St Caledonia,

14/01/2009 11:18:38
It is not Scottish society at large who carried out this attack, but it is Scottish societies attitude in general that lead to it.
I remember walking down a street in Edinburgh one day when England were playing against Portugal (I think) and the cheers, the mayhem, the absolute and total thrill that followed the England defeat was disturbing to say the least. I remember wondering if a Scotland win would have resulted in such mass hysteria, probably not I thought.
There is an element of Scottish society that has been brainwashed into believing that England owes us something, they believe Scotland is hard done by, they believe that England is a modern day enemy - these poor people are beyond repair and it is a frightening reality.
198

Joanna,

Cambs, England 14/01/2009 11:19:36
Phil @ 209

I too was surprised that the location for this alleged barring of the Englishman was Amsterdam. I have always found the Dutch to be an extremely welcoming and friendly people. Perhaps too much alchohol was a more significant factor in him not being allowed in.

My brother-in-law was refused entry to a club in England not because of his Glaswegian accent but because he was wearing trainers. These things happen we all went to another club which was less fussy about footwear and he promised to wear 'proper shoes' next time! :))
199

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 11:21:39
Vinny , you must get treatment soon mate. Your obssesion with my posts is becoming a little creepy.

The term "Englandshire" is not racist you total moron. It is banter that many English enjoy. It was coined, by me, during a discussion where the other guy kept referring to "sweaty sock land".

He enjoyed it. Trust you, a pathetic squirming little
ball of fustration to try and stir up trouble between
posters of both countries.

As I have said before, your ignorance knows no bounds.
200

TREV,

Poland 14/01/2009 11:21:47
10 years of living in Glasgow with my sweet littl English accent did occassionally earn me a comment or two but for most of the time it was playful banter (my dad was a Scot, btw).

Ironically I have a Scottish born colleague here in Poland. He was attacked one night by a bunch of drunken Polish yobs for his English accent (he has got one).
201

Lianachan,

HIghlands 14/01/2009 11:23:20
#214 I will support any country from anywhere in the world at any sport against England, and cheerfully acknowledge that. Racist? No. That accusation has no merit. For me, it's like a local rivals kinf of thing. Expect a passionate Everton supporter to support Liverpool in a football match? Of course not. Same with Scotland and England.
202

Winters,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 11:26:55
A Genuine Account 52# I know I'm a bit late coming in on this but I've just read your comment "Foulkes instigated garbage".
What on earth does all this have to do with George Foulkes?
203

Jack and the Bean Stalk,

LONDON 14/01/2009 11:29:47
Having said what I said earlier, as some one from a so called ‘minority section’ of the community, my comments would be that racial attacks occur in all kinds of places, places where people are insular and places where there is a majority of ‘minority population’ in a ghetto like spread and which tends to invite resentment. Integration and NOT overtly expressing once own religion and attitude that stems from it is the answer. My opinion is we should leave our religion at home. Hence the so called minorities have special responsibility. As far as youth crime is concerned, it is universal and more often I was threatened by gangs of youths in London who are of my brown colour!

There is nothing racist in saying British jobs for British people as it includes citizens of all races and creed. Otherwise, lies the road to disharmony and intolerance. We should also recognise that the Racism industry is big and self-serving and hence racist by its own precepts and practices.

In my experience, I found Aberdeen to be very good in many respects and bad in others like all cities are. But there was undeniably some intolerance lurking underneath there, that was in 1980. These days it is becoming a more cosmopolitan city I imagine and hence my surprise about this incidence. There seems still some resentment in some form or other among people. But let us not say that SNP or Scottish Nationalism is something to do with it. I have some very good friends in SNP and they are excellent people to interact with. Scotland has many distinctive features. For example, Scottish education system is even today arguably the best education system in Britain and some of my best and brightest students were Scots. Let us hope that this is an isolated incidence perpetrated by a moron. We visit Scotland from London almost every year and it is a beautiful country to live and work.



204

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

14/01/2009 11:31:27
Racism is par for the course in the (ha ha) United Kingdom...the piece of toilet paper that carried out this assault is a brave man indeed...attacking a woman and assaulting her severely...he is a cowardly ned who has no doubt carried out such attacks before and will do again...someone lacking in intelligence and principals who needs to be locked away for a very long time...and by that I do not mean the paltry pathetic sentences handed down by doolally judges...

Aint you the brave man you piece of filth.

A 'ned' an 'oik' a 'chav'.....
205

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 14/01/2009 11:32:29
May i suggest that in many cases (probably not this one) that what is perceived as racism by some has more to do with the behaviour of the individual.

If you were to turn up at a bar in amsterdam, pished and god know what else out your face , being obnoxious and you happened to be wearing a kilt, what would be the real reason you didnt get in ?

206

,

14/01/2009 11:33:12
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207

greenhill,

14/01/2009 11:34:49
RE Lianachan,HIghlands 14/01/2009 11:23:20 I will support any country from anywhere in the world at any sport against England, and cheerfully acknowledge that. Racist? No.


There are just too many tedious buffoons like you.I would not say all people who express such sentiments are racists but many are. However you are all bores.
208

MtnKat,

14/01/2009 11:39:41
#9 Fifi
I must confess, I had agree with #8. "a single punch" doing that much damage?
That said, I, too, wish her a speedy recovery.
209

Lianachan,

Highlands 14/01/2009 11:41:50
#224 I'll ignore your opening, sad little insult. I'm free to support whoever I want at sport events, for whatever reason I want. As are you. My point, which you do indeed seem to have picked up on, is that to support anybody who plays against England is not neccessarily a racially motivated decision. If you think my decision makes me a bore then, well, meh. Fair play to you. I couldn't care less.
210

,

14/01/2009 11:42:06
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211

Miss H,

14/01/2009 11:44:58
220 Do you really think there is nothing racist in saying British jobs for British workers?

If you read the article above it tells you that racially motivated attacks against people from the EU accession states are on the increase.

Do you see no connection between the Prime Minister using language like 'British jobs for British workers' and attacks on non-British workers?
212

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 14/01/2009 11:46:38
Moving on to more serious matters , is there any chance we can get Extreme Dreams with Ben Fogle on bbc 24x7 ? Its the best TV ever made (for all the wrong reasons).

COMING UP ! Lachlan complains about his pound note not being accepted in darkest Clapton and faces a treacherous slurry walk home to Uist. Where few Westerners have ever been.
213

antifa,

14/01/2009 11:49:40
The idea that this disgraceful attack has anything to do with the SNP is ridiculous. The SNP is a liberal, progressive, social democratic party and seems inclusive and welcoming to all. It's primarily about independence (not nationalism), an idea that has a lot going for it.

On the other hand, there are posters on here who support the SNP government and regularly come up with bigoted, offensive, xenephobic anti-English comments (Guga, Scotindy, Macalba etc) and I don't think I've ever seen them taken to task by fellow nationalists. That's what worries me.

Do sensible Nats have anything to say about this?
214

Elephant,

Linlithgow 14/01/2009 11:51:11
The deluge of comments on this issue proves one thing: people really struggle with their own and community conscience when it comes to perceptions of the English in Scotland. Here's an interesting anecdote - my wife was born in New Zealand to Scots/English parents, move here during her school days, then worked in England for ten years and returned here last year. She sounds quite 'English' and in going for job interviews was astonished at how many people sought to find out where she came from. Their relaxation on finding out was palpable she said (whether because she was proved to be Scots or just because they satisfied their curiosity she was not sure!). Can you imagine the liability if an interviewer asked you for the history of your skin-tone! She also remarked that this wasn't as prevalent when she lived here ten years ago. She is now concerned to find out what policy schools have on promoting a well rounded world-view in case our young child has a 'different' accent when he grows up. Can anyone tell me what education policy is on the relationship between Scotland and England? Is it framed in historical rivalry, or does it promote as sense of positive co-existence these days?
215

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 11:51:29
223 Vinny, As much as it fustrates you, I did coin the phrase, unless of course you have evidence of the contrary.

Show me any where I have used the term in a non humerous manner. You can't you twonk. Stop trying to stir up trouble and resentment between me and our English posters.

I must say I am deriving a huge amount of satisfaction at your obvious anger and fustration. Keep twisting.

You can shriek your accusations of "Liar" from the rooftops but that does not make then accurate.

Your turn.
216

Lianachan,

Highlands 14/01/2009 11:53:00
#227 Nevertheless, there it is. I fail to see how my sporting views could in any way lessen the relevance of my views on any other matters.
217

English flag,

14/01/2009 11:54:51
When will certain members of scottish society "grow-up",there are more scots in north-east England than anywhere else in GB but we don't go beating the sh-t out of them because they speak with a scottish accent.
Who ever did this is all that is evil and bad about Scotland thanks to salmond and his bigoted views.
218

P Rayner.,

Latin America . 14/01/2009 11:55:50
This was a cowardly ,thuggish assault and nothing else . It cannot be described as a racist incidence , though the perpetrator of the attack may prefer it thus described . Being English and having spent some time in Scotland , mostly Aberdeenshire , I´ve always been struck by friendliness of the people . However it appears not in the interests of TV , radio , newspapers etc to report reality , or reality as experienced by me . Better for them to refer to nasty incidents , especially Scots on English . BBC Scotland even reported comments by Maradonna about bad blood between Scot and Englishman . This and the constant airing of sniping from the few Scottish maladjusts is I suspect designed to cause irritation and conflict ,the resultant of which is ,I suspect ,of a growing anti Scottish , anti Union feeling in England .
219

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 11:58:13
234 # 1 metre 80cm Hardly "short" for a Scotsman.

What's with your obsession with height anyway ?. I take it your a lanky streak of urine with a rather small member.
220

Nikostratos,,

14/01/2009 12:00:15
#228

Like to see Alex Salmond say "Scottish jobs for people from the EU accession states" Doubt if he will though.
what do you think?

221

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 12:00:53
#235 Have you any idea how many racist attacks are carried out in your country each year ?

I can guarantee it is many many many many more than happen in Scotland.
222

Phil the Flooter,

14/01/2009 12:02:29
Joanna Cambs.

The sort of comment 'Scots are welcome all over the world but the English are not' and associated drivel - I have not heard this gem for many years, It is of the Smug 'Wha's like us ' school of thought which makes the utterer feel all warm inside at their obvious superiority .
223

Miss H,

14/01/2009 12:05:40
238 Have you ever heard Alex Salmond say 'Scottish jobs for Scottish workers'?

No. Didn't think so.
224

English flag,

14/01/2009 12:07:20
239. Not to scots it's not.
225

Scythia,

14/01/2009 12:08:32
195 (Greenhill) - You said - "..Racism applies to colour,nationality,descent and ethnicity" - which dictionary was that then ?

Webster -
Racial prejudice or descrimination.
Oxford -
discrimination against or antagonism towards other races.
Chambers -
hatred, rivalry or bad feeling between races

This article has nothing to do with race, metaphorically or literally. We have a very nasty incident in its own right (probably motivated by anti-English prejudice), embossed by the media (and the Race industry) with the "r" word for reasons of impact and prominence.




226

Miss H,

14/01/2009 12:10:19
230 The answer is in the question. People called Guga, Scotindy, Macalba etc.

You have no idea who these people are. You don't know if they are Scottish or what nationality they are or whether they genuinely support independence or whether they don't.

Lots of people who frequent internet forums are simply game players. They pick a character and that is who they become.

It's not real.
227

,

14/01/2009 12:10:37
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228

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 14/01/2009 12:11:13
Back to basics.

Two wrongs dont make a right.

Compromise. Is not a dirty word.

Human beings will always be territorial, its in our nature as animals. A kid in Hawick will grow up being fearful and hating towards Galashiels. Later that will become Edinburgh , then England, then some might actually make the move to having those feelings towards America or the Middle East.

it's all about education and keeping an open mind. If you look for trouble you will find it.

Grow up the lot of you.
229

troonjambo,

Troon 14/01/2009 12:11:32
Antifa,

You're quite correct. This story should have no connection to the SNP. As a staunch supporter of Scottish Independence since the 1970s I try not to post on stories which become hijacked by the anti AND pro independence minded people on these threads. To tell you the truth I find responses such as many of those posted on here today quite depressing. I suspect many nationalist supporters don't post because there is every chance that anything they try to say in a calm and responsible manner may immediately be jumped upon and misrepresented in subsequent posts. We don't all have time to get into log-winded discussions trying to justify or defend our comments.
Although there are some posts worthy of consideration I'm afraid a large percentage of what has been printed here today is pretty cringeworthy.

I hope Lucy has a speedy recovery and fear that the culprit will not be punished severly enough due to our soft judicial system. His actions cannot be condoned under any circumstances.
230

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 14/01/2009 12:12:22
244
Touché
231

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 14/01/2009 12:15:48
"My work takes me to Turkey, Germany, France, all over Spain, as well as the US, and sorry to dissapoint you but I have not witnessed anti-English sentiments at all, and sorry again, but I did the last time I was in Inverness." Peter Balerus

Sorry, that's unmitigated crud.


"I have had no problems spending Scottish banknotes in this area. They spend just as well as the English ones and you can buy just as many pairs of shoes with them." Joanna

Rubbish and you know it.

"have never had a problem getting on with anyone on my extensive travels because of my `Englishness`"

Aye right. Yes you havee. Don't worry though, stiff upper lip old bean, what what?

Chumps.

232

greenhill,

14/01/2009 12:21:14
RE Scythia,14/01/2009 12:08:32

To get a definition of "racism" from a dictionary shows you up to be rather simplistic . I cannot take you seriously.

Why not check out what the United Nations says :

"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life. '[1]"

Even that is too short.



233

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 14/01/2009 12:22:23
This is a sad story on a number of levels.

First of all there is the pain and suffering of the young lady herself.
I hope and trust she will make a full and speedy recovery and in due course receive a generous financial compensation, preferably from her assailant.

Whatever the full story of the events leading to this assault may be, there can be no excuse for this kind of behaviour.

The perpetrator of this hideous act of thuggery is a danger to society as a whole and does not deserve to walk the streets of Aberdeen, or anywhere else for that matter, for a very long time indeed.

Secondly, there is the besmirching of the reputation of the city of Aberdeen in particular and Scotland in general, as a welcoming, friendly and worthwhile place to either visit or reside in.

We have already seen on this thread a number of individuals who are only too willing to proclaim shrilly and loudly that “It was the SNP wot dun it!”

It could be just as easily argued that the lack of social mores and values demonstrated by the thug responsible for this outrage are a result of him being brought up as one of “Thatcher’s children”, and we are now reaping the harvest of the seeds sown initially by that despicable woman and subsequently cultivated by her admirers in the Labour Party.

However, such an analogy is as equally facile as blaming acts of crime on movies or on unsubstantiated anecdotal claims of anti-English sentiments within the hierarchy of the SNP.

What would the rabid, foaming at the mouth unionists have to say if it turns out that this thug is a member of the local Loyal Orange Lodge?
234

English flag,

14/01/2009 12:23:39
It is truly amazing how many scots are actually condoning this action by this little sh-t,and if anyone knows this morons identity you are as guilty as he is for not telling the police.
235

Arbroath1320,

Somewhereelse 14/01/2009 12:29:21
Very predictable response from posters of all political and nationalist/unionist views.
Everyone blaming politics or nationalism for what was probably a drink fuelled attack on someone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Shame on the Scotsman for allowing comment on this article knowing what vehemence would follow in the postings.
It is significant that even in the sports section stories about two certain clubs cannot invite comment due to the reaction of some posters.
Scotland is a country full of diversity in population. For the most, we all get on very well. But, there are a minority who, be it for racist, political, sexual or religious reasons can't get along with the rest. Every country has it's share and Scotland, has no more than the rest.
As a Scot, married to a Northern Irish woman, this girl has my sympathies.
236

Jack and the Bean Stalk,

LONDON 14/01/2009 12:32:40
@228

I would like you to mull this over. Let us assume that there are 2000 registrar vacancies (that is doctors a notch above the junior doctors) in hospitals. There are 10,000 junior doctors and qualified medical graduates who are born, brought up and studied in this countryfor whom the tax payers invested millions for education who are applicants. But due to foolish policies of a health secretary, more than 10,000 doctors outside the EU were allowed into Britain just 2-3 years before,most of them still staying after visa expiration, and they also want to claim these jobs. Don't tell me there will be no resentment. This is happening in England.

The issue is numbers and perception. If the immigrants speak English , understand English and know about the country'structures (education, health local govt...),not imported to beat established salary structures or filling the postions which are not applied for by British citizens, I do not see a problem. More often this is not the case. I can give you a number of examples of teachers and lecturers appointed to schools and universities who even after a few years fail to understand the education system in this country. There are taxi drivers employed in London mini cab companies who have very little knowledge of English and do not have familiarity of London.

One has to draw a line somewhere , that is where British jobs for British comes in. Not racist. Happens in Indian software houses in India and in the countries of Asia.
237

phemie,

Aberdour 14/01/2009 12:33:55
Poor girl, this makes me ashamed to be a Scot. I wonder if the attacker would have been brave enough to do this in Newcastle or Liverpool. Ignorant cowards the lot.I lived in Yorkshire for years,and never encountered anything like this. I am beginning to wish I had never come back.The guy responsible has probably never been outside Aberdeen. This is ruining Scotland's reputation,left wing dumbing down of education started the rot and is continuing it.
238

Miss H,

14/01/2009 12:37:19
254 I haven't seen any serious posters 'blaming' politics.

There have been statements such as that of Duncan in Edinburgh who has overtly blamed the SNP for this attack.

But such comments are just stupid and most people realise that.
239

Marga,

Edinburgh 14/01/2009 12:39:16
Racism: comments about insulting references to "the English" and "the Scots" above as being racism made me think of the occasion when some bloggers tried to complain to the Press Complaints Commission about some particularly virulent anti-Scottish press coverage, also involving an attack on the SNP and Alex Salmolnd.

The Press Complaints Commission states it can't act on complaints about references to groups of people like, for example, the Scots or the English. That's "freedom of expression". Their Code says:

"Clause 12 (Discrimination) is designed to prevent named individuals from being subject to discriminatory reference. The Code was changed in 2004 to refer to ‘an individual’s race, colour, religion, sex, sexual orientation or to any physical or mental illness or disability’ to make this especially clear.

The Code does not prohibit discriminatory references to groups of people. To do so would – arguably – interfere with a basic principle of freedom of expression. The Code was designed to protect the individual, which it does in its current form.

However, the Commission has often been able to refocus people’s concerns about the reporting of groups of people into a complaint under Clause 1 (Accuracy) of the Code: if you feel that an article has made unfair references to a particular group, you may be able to argue that those references are inaccurate or misleading in breach of Clause 1."
240

Arbroath1320,

14/01/2009 12:39:38
#253 English Flag,

Can't say i have read any posts, mind I haven't got time to go through all 252 before yours, that have condoned this attack. I would say, those who have welcomed the news have been a number of apparent unionist supporters who revel in blaming this on the SNP or Scottish Nationalism.
241

greentiger,

uk 14/01/2009 12:40:01
86 john z “As regards Scottish/english racism, I would argue that the fact that there are fewer than 50 MPs representing Scotland in the Westmnster parliament of over 640 seats, it is quite clearly institutionalised anti -scottish racism.”

Purdon my language but what utter C%^p given Scotland’s tiny population the Scottish are massively over represent at Westminster, for a start look how many Scottish ministers we have? However I guess someone who can’t spell Westminster would not know this to be true.
242

English flag,

14/01/2009 12:43:52
256. Well said,and you are absolutely right education or the lack of it has a lot to do with it. As a Yorkshire lass myself you will always get a warm welcome in North Yorkshire and on Teesside
243

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 14/01/2009 12:46:36
A man hitting a woman is a cowardly act no matter where the woman is from, the guy who perpetrated this foul act should be ashamed of himself. If you are one of his friends please take affirmative action and give the wee D1ck a severe hammerin.
244

Robb,

14/01/2009 12:46:43
#253 - Could you tell me where you see Scots condoning this behaviour? Alternatively, admit you are talking garbage yet again.

Nobody in their right mind would condone the attack on an innocent victim, and I for one cannot see any evidence that they are. Please quote your sources.
245

English flag,

14/01/2009 12:48:54
259. Maybe you should take a closer look!
246

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 12:51:44
I am sure that we all wish Lucy a speedy recovery and hope that the thugs who attacked her are brought to justice.

But this is poor and sensationalist journalism from the Scotsman. The majority of vicitms of racist attacks in Scotland are Asian, and of them 20% have been attacked more than once. Where is the coverage of that ?

The Scotsman are just having an insidious go at nationalists, although there is no evidence to link this crime with nationalism whatsoever.
247

Heather B,

Anstruther 14/01/2009 12:52:22
I do think that the likes of Salmond and Cameron should take a look at themselves for stoking up nationalist fervour that suits them not the poor punters out on the streets.

There's bampots everywhere though...

Pitlochry man attacked stranger.. for being from Dundee, court told

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/06/06/pitlochry-man-attacked-stranger-for-being-from-dundee-court-told-86908-20596873/
248

English flag,

14/01/2009 12:58:54
264. Take a look at No 6 comments.
249

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 13:00:01
267 Salmond is not guilty of stirring up any kind of fervour that could lead to racial attacks. On the contrary he is one of the few politicians who doesn't play the race card. If you want to look at irresponsible politicians stirring things up look no further than Gordon Brown with his ''British jobs for British workers'' that is straight out of a script for Alf Garnett.
250

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/01/2009 13:01:44
266
Observer,
The SNP's continued indulgence of anti-Englisdh bigots continues and as long as it does racist attacks on English people will be partly their fault.
Nationalism is a dangerous thing, the seeds of tyranny lie within all nationalist movements and a modern nationalist movement should ensure that there are no dangerous elements which historically have made nationalism such a tragic political philosophy. I would suggest that the SNP have been less than rigorous when it comes to rooting out the bigots in their ranks and would urge them to discipline any member guilty of the repugnant behaviour which sickens so many Scots....how often have you heard sickening bigotry dismissed as 'banter'?
251

Miss H,

14/01/2009 13:02:08
265 English Flag. Did you know that all the posts here are numbered? That makes it easy to reference the post you are talking about.

For example I can say that the people who made posts at 31, 39,118,133, 172,198 say that the SNP are responsible for attacks on Englsh people.

You should equally be able to cite the numbers of the posts where independence supporters condone attacks on English people.
252

English flag,

14/01/2009 13:03:08
266. Oh come on, this has EVERYTHING to do with nationalism,and salmond is the main culprit.
253

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/01/2009 13:05:49
269
Observer,
Enough of your quite frankly pathetic attempts to excuse the anti-English bigots within nationalism. They exist and the grievance politics so favoured by Mr Salmond legitimises their behaviour and excuses their actions.
Play semantics and sophistry all you like but to try and hide racism because it happens to emanate from your chosen political side is ridiculous. It exists for everybody to see, instead of excusing or denying it you should oppose it.
254

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14/01/2009 13:08:26
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Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 13:10:21
273/270 You have got a godamned cheek. The biggest victims of racial violence in this country are Asians. You have posted many times about Islamofascism - so don't you go about lecturing anyone else about racism.

As far as anti-English racism is concerned I condemn it completely, any kind of racism is moronic. I have challenged anti-English sentiment wherever I have encountered it - which isn't often. Unlike the casual Islamophobia you can read on any of these threads any day of the week.
256

Miss H,

14/01/2009 13:12:27
273 Post the evidence. If it is plain to see you should have no difficulties doing that.

257

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14/01/2009 13:13:14
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SkeptikScot,

14/01/2009 13:13:20
I have no problem saying that not everything in Scotland is perfect; there is racism against the English and we need to stamp it out. I've actually witnessed this sort of racism myself and had to intervene. It'll be a sign of our confidence when the Scottish nation can face up to this and a few other little "secrets" we have (role in the slave trade anyone? decline of our school system?). Now, where's that boil lancer of mine?
259

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14/01/2009 13:15:24
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Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/01/2009 13:15:45
275
Sorry, what has concerns with right wing Islamo-fascism got to do with being anti-Asian? It is religious fundamentalism in all it's guises I oppose not a race or nationality.
However, it's good to see you accept the problem with bigots within the SNP and trust you will stand up against them as vigorously as the BNP....
261

Hugh Roscombe,

14/01/2009 13:18:11
Grahamski: Sorry mate. Very poor attempts by you today.

#272 English Flag: Your usual infantile take on things. Grow up.

262

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 13:19:11
280 Who's being the sophist now ? Obviously anti-muslim feeling is going to be experienced by Asians more than white people. I don't personally know any anti-English bigots. But as I have said before being pro-Scottish doesn't make you anti-English, quite the contrary.
263

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14/01/2009 13:22:20
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Miss H,

14/01/2009 13:25:25
280 Unfortunately Grahamski peoples concerns about 'Islamo-fascism' too often translate as straightforward p@ki-bashing.

Applying your own logic - that the SNP is responsible for anti English sentiments because they support Scottish independence - you are responsible for the people who dragged by taxi driver friend out of his cab and attempted to gouge his eyes out because he is a Pakistani Muslim.

Note that I do not think people like you are responsible for that - but if I applied your logic I would.

265

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14/01/2009 13:27:36
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JT,

14/01/2009 13:31:40
First and formost, lets hope the police catch and are able to punish this vile person. Secondly best wishes to the young lady. Thirdly as someone who was born in Edinburgh and due to spending 26 years in England has a mixed accent and now lives back in Edinburgh I know whats its like to be on the receiving end of anti english sentiment and I believe that I have not got jobs because of it. The ironic thing is I regard myself nothing else but a Scot even as I have a scottish dad and welsh mum. I was told during the scotland/france game that I wasnt allowed to support scotland due to my accent! Try telling all the sportsmen and women who represent us that because they dont sound like Rabbie Burns or Rab C Nesbitt then they cant be Scottish. Two words and the second one is OFF!
267

English flag,

14/01/2009 13:32:39
281.Infantile! The only thing "Infantile" about all of this is the moron who punch this poor girl,oh, and you!
268

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 13:34:43

#246 'Human beings will always be territorial, its in our nature as animals.'

Utter nonsense.

Apart from anything else not all animals are territorial.
269

Alan B,

14/01/2009 13:35:10
#Grahamski

With regard to anti english bigotry in scotland i would say from what i have seen they are most likely to be traditional labour supporters.

To some extend some labour supporters blame england for scotland problems, but think that nothing can be done to sort it as we are so dependent on england. The labour fosters view that scotland is so inferior that we can not prosper on our own and cannot achieve what others do. Labour whole campaigns for the union is not based on a positive vision of the uk but due to an incapable and inferior scotland. As such it is a union for better or worst and union at any cost.

The snp by comparision will more likely have supporters who will blame scottish unionists for scotland problems and view then as selling out scotland.

The 2 things that foster anti englishness in scotland is politics and the way scotland has been treated by the uk tv media. Both have encouraged the view that england is arrogant and looks down on scotland and views us with distain. U only have to watch bbc news where say english education will be seen as a uk issue but scottish a regional one etc, or listen to the anti scottishness encountered by some of the scottish presenters who have broken through the discrimination to become uk presenters, or listen to football pundits at any internantional tournament.

With the advent of the scottish parliament i would say anti english feeling has reduced in scotland. Thatcherism raised it to a different level. With the scottish parliament scotland can blame scotland for poor government. Unfortunately due to it weak nature it cannot be as effective as it should and the muddle of devolution is sure to cause alot of trouble and encourage scottish vs english polarisation. The fact that brown hailed from scotland masks this potential problem at the moment.



270

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14/01/2009 13:35:32
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Rob7,

England 14/01/2009 13:37:59
When I was in Scotland in the Middle of last year I was subject of some abuse - all be it verbal only. I didn't report it, but a local came and helped me and apologised etc. So in a way I was part of a racist attach and also total kindness.
272

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14/01/2009 13:38:30
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English flag,

14/01/2009 13:39:03
290. You are a real idiot.
274

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 13:40:05


#252 'It could be just as easily argued that the lack of social mores and values demonstrated by the thug responsible for this outrage are a result of him being brought up as one of “Thatcher’s children”, and we are now reaping the harvest of the seeds sown initially by that despicable woman and subsequently cultivated by her admirers in the Labour Party.'

I thought the gnats didn't mind the social side of Thatcherism so much? Isn't that what fat eck said?
275

Sumlogic,

14/01/2009 13:41:45
Nonsense headline! Unionist propaganda out of a woman’s misery!

How do we really know what was going through the head of the person who attacked her, those words may have been the real motive, however maybe they were just the straw that broke the camels back.

All obviously unacceptable anyway but misleading headline!

The problem is that some stupid, moronic humans, never GROW UP and realise that a ‘feeling is just a feeling’ and does not have to be turned into an action. And on that note a thought is just a thought!

If you feel hungry you don’t have to eat, if you feel angry you don’t have to strike out and if you feel horny you don’t need to just grab the first thing u see!

Emotional control coupled with CBT techniques should be taught to all primary school children from age 5 and up!

As for the anti English or Anti Scots or anti whatever, there will always be some numpties in ALL countries and nations who use ANY excuse to VENT their own troubles on others…
276

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14/01/2009 13:42:12
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14/01/2009 13:43:30
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English flag,

14/01/2009 13:45:28
There are many words of support for this poor girl but i think we should go a step further,as of such, i will pay £50 for the arrest and conviction of this piece of scum anyone else care to contribute.
279

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14/01/2009 13:46:44
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Miss H,

14/01/2009 13:46:50
294 no it's not
281

English flag,

14/01/2009 13:48:52
297. Do something useful,stick your hand in your pocket and contribute to finding this low life.
282

Alan B,

14/01/2009 13:49:13
#Stan Butler

"I thought the gnats didn't mind the social side of Thatcherism so much? Isn't that what fat eck said?"

You have got it round the wrong way. Salmond when asked why scotland hated thatcherism so much, said he thought it more about her social policies than economic.

I think part of the problem with Salmond statement is the line between social policy and economic policy is not necessary clear.

But it is an interesting question. Why did scotland vote so much for labour under blair when blair economics was so routed in so much of thatcherism at certain levels.
283

Miss H,

14/01/2009 13:51:25
300 The numbers of people from England moving to Scotland has increased since devolution. Why would that be the case if there was an increase in anti English racism? That really doesn't make any sense.
284

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 13:51:36
300 ''Braveheart certainly appealed to your cerebrally challenged neds'' so - no racial stereotypes from you then.
285

English flag,

14/01/2009 13:51:52
301. Why,Got a guilty conscience!
286

Miss H,

14/01/2009 13:53:56
304 It's because of values. People vote for all manner of reasons but probably the biggest reason is that they want to vote for a party which they believe shares their values.

That's why Thatcher was hated so much. It's why Scottish political parties occupy much of the same ground in reality.
287

Rufus-T-Firefly,

14/01/2009 13:55:54
305 Miss H,14/01/2009 13:51:25
300 The numbers of people from England moving to Scotland has increased since devolution. Why would that be the case if there was an increase in anti English racism? That really doesn't make any sense.
====================================================
Of course it makes sense.

The more English people here, then the higher the liklihood of racist attacks against them.

If no English people lived here then there would be no racist attacks.

You do not need to be Albert Einstein to work that one out.
288

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14/01/2009 13:56:09
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English flag,

14/01/2009 13:57:16
If everyone on this thread gave £50 for the arrest and conviction of this thug,we would be making a stand for justice and anti racism,but i fear it's only words as per usual.
290

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14/01/2009 13:57:26
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14/01/2009 13:57:55
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antifa,

14/01/2009 13:58:32
Miss H - it's surely in your own best interests as a supporter of the SNP to distance yourself from xenephobic remarks. But Guga, Scotindy and Macalba et al are on here all the time posting their nasty stuff, and no-one from the nationalist side EVER takes issue with them.

SNP supporters do, however, spend an inordinate amount of time and effort attacking English losers who are clearly just trying to provoke a reaction.

Why is this? Is it because you consider Guga et al irrelevant troll types(in which case the question is, why do the English trolls get so much attention), or is it because you think xenephobia is okay as long as its directed at men, women and children who happen to live south of Hadrian's Wall?
293

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 13:59:06
#245 Vinny, the humiliation comes from not having enough ports of exit in Scotland, not from having to set foot in englandshire.Again you are trying to stoke up hate between Scots and english. Your a nasty wee man.

As for your "Friend" claiming to have coined the phrase : either he is a liar or you are. I suspect you,
due to your incredible immaturity.

242# English flag. In answer to my post at 239, you seem to be saying the racist attacks in Englandshire don't count because they are not against Scots. I wonder if you would care to explain that remark.

Are you seriousley suggesting attacks against non Brits are less serious than attacks against Brits.
That's how I interpret your comment.
294

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14/01/2009 13:59:47
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naeabelger,

London(for the moment) 14/01/2009 14:01:06
As a ex-resident of Aberdeenshire and a Nationalist I wish to offer my sincerest and strongest condemnation of the ratbag who attacked this young lady.
I only hope that the police find this oaf and deal with him to the strongest extent of the law.
I wish that both Nats and Unionists would stop trying to score political points over this. Hopefully the citizens of Aberdeen will help the police fully.
296

Miss H,

14/01/2009 14:01:06
309 No, it really doesn't make sense. People do not voluntarily move to a country where they think they are likely to be attacked or their children are likely to be attacked. If Scotland is such a terrible place for English people as is being portrayed by some posters you would not have an increase in migration - you would have a decrease.

297

English flag,

14/01/2009 14:02:39
309. What a racist t-at you are,we have about half a million scots in England without ANY trouble whatsoever,if English folk want to live in Scotland why shouldn't they.
298

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14/01/2009 14:02:49
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14/01/2009 14:03:57
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P. Gordon,

Madrid, Spain 14/01/2009 14:05:06
A sad state of affairs! As a Scotsman I am worried and ashamed of stories like this! What is happening to Scotland? One thing is to be proud of one´s background and identity, but another thing is to use violence against another person with the pretext that they have an English or any other accent! Enough is enough! Scotland wake up! Do not walk down the dark and dangerous valley of radical nationalism! Intolerant,ignorant and potentially racist! Scots are traditionally open and common sense people who have worked and emigrated all over the world, fleeing oppression and poverty many times. Everyone deserves respect, wherever they may be from without exceptions! People of Scotland wake up to the future, which is one of ever increasing economic, political and cultural unity in a globalized village. As Burns said:
"A man´s a man for o´that and o´that".
301

Arbroath1320,

14/01/2009 14:05:11
268 English Flag
Read No6 again then look up 'shameful' in the dictionary.
302

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 14:05:20
English flag. you say at post 268 that I condone these attacks. Your nothing but a stinking ignorant Liar. You disgrace your nationality with your comments.
303

Miss H,

14/01/2009 14:05:52
317 You said that there has been an upsurge in anti Englishness since devolution - so presumably you lived here prior to devolution.

What you are saying simply does not make sense though.

1) At the same time as there is an upsurge in anti-English feeling more and more English people decide to relocate to Scotland. Why would they do that?

2) Anti English feeling is stronger now when Scotland has its own parliament and has more autonomy than it was when the Tories were in power - poll tax, democratic deficit and all? Surely not. I would agree with AlanB that anti-Englishness was at its height in the Thatcher years and I am very surprised to hear anyone say the opposite.
304

Rufus-T-Firefly,

14/01/2009 14:06:55
197 Mikey,14/01/2009 10:49:34
There are racists in every country, including Scotland. This story, while regretable, is just an invitation for anti Scottish, vile little racists like RTF and his alter egos to insult their own people.
======================================================
Yes Mikey the Moron there are racists in every country.

Many of them idiotic. Like yourself.
305

Arbroath1320,

14/01/2009 14:08:51
Strange that comments are allowed on this story but not on the 'Bin Laden - Jihad' story.
Scotsman explain?
306

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 14:09:03
317 If there was an increase in anti-English racism it would be reflected in Police figures. Although racist attacks are on the increase it is not English people who are on the receiving end of most of them, so why the Braveheart reference. Most victims of racial attacks in this country are Asian. There were no Asians in Braveheart.
307

Miss H,

14/01/2009 14:09:11
314 I have had numerous fights with Guga et al. But basically it is a waste of time. Half of them are just made up people, they are not SNP at all. You learn to recognise them.
308

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14/01/2009 14:09:19
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English flag,

14/01/2009 14:09:34
319. Some have little choice,jobs,family,financial etc,but i'm afraid many don't realise the anti-English sentiments north of the border.
310

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14/01/2009 14:11:35
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14/01/2009 14:12:41
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Hugh Roscombe,

14/01/2009 14:13:39
Kimba's back spouting her usual silliness.

The following must be true if we take this story to its "logical" conclusion.

There were no attacks on English people before the SNP won the election.

Any attacks on English people from now on MUST be committed by Nats.

There was never any football violence at a Scotland England match pre devolution.

All attacks on Scots living down south are committed by unionists.
....................................................

It's a very sad story about a girl being attacked by mindless morons. I doubt very much if they support ANY political party. They're quite simply neds.

Anyone trying to make political capital out of this article is likewise a moron.
313

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14/01/2009 14:13:52
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Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 14:14:47
334 There is anti-Scottish sentiment in England too. So what, we are talking about a racially motivated attack here. I had many comments made to me when I lived in London and didn't boo hoo about it, but no-one punched me in the face. Let's be clear what we are talking about here.
315

greenhill,

14/01/2009 14:14:54
RE Observer,,Glasgow 14/01/2009 13:10:21

Muslims are not a race. It is a religion that involves peoples from all over the World.You are failing to recognise the racial diversity of Muslims.

Most Muslims reject extreme Islamic fundamentalism so condeming "Islamofacism" is not an insult to Muslims.You cannot conflate such comment with racism.


316

steve52,

Kinfauns 14/01/2009 14:15:24
Obviously no one would dare to condone this attack and I like others would offer my sincere regrets to this young woman.

I think it is outrageous that some would jump on the band waggon and use this assault to try and stir up hate using the race card. Of course many of these morons are from south of the border.

Scotland is no different from anywhere else, we have our fair share of mindless thugs.

My brother tried to book his stag night in Engerland, a party of 28. He could not get booked into the places he tried and was told this was owing to the number of attacks on Scots persons . He should go elsewhere he was informed as 28 Scotsmen would attract trouble.

When working in Engerland I was also subjected to racial abuse being called a Scots person without a father!!

We have a very good friend who is English and she is always complaining about racisim up here. When asked for examples she can only say that when she went to buy a new TV she felt she was ripped off. The shop keeper would not have ripped me off if I were Scottish she states.

A neighbour who is English and moved here some 5 years ago is the biggest trouble maker here and the biggest liar. When one disagrees with him or argues with him we are only doing so cause he is English. Typical of many English who settle up here he has one big chip on his shoulder.

My wife is English and lived in Scotland for 25 years never facing any form of racisim.
317

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 14/01/2009 14:15:37
338 airse. not because you are english , just because you are.

Look , we can all play at being the scotsman.

here.

http://www.inthepaper.co.uk/default.aspx

318

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14/01/2009 14:16:36
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Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 14:16:49
338 You are just a moron.
320

Rufus-T-Firefly,

14/01/2009 14:16:59
320 English flag,14/01/2009 14:02:39
309. What a racist t-at you are,we have about half a million scots in England without ANY trouble whatsoever,if English folk want to live in Scotland why shouldn't they.
=========================================================
You have misinterpreted my post.
As many English people as want to live here are welcome to do so.
I am on your side!
321

English flag,

14/01/2009 14:16:59
334. I would offer a small wager that at least 50% of English people moving to scotland have had some form of racial abuse.
322

Miss H,

14/01/2009 14:17:40
327 I genuinely do not understand your point.

I would certainly defend the idea that the SNP and those of us who support Scottish independence are responsible for this attack though that allegation has been made by a number of people on this forum.

I think that needs to be defended and exposed as a disgraceful piece of opportunism.

I also regret the fact that racist attacks, which are all too common in Scotland, are given greater prominence when the victim is white, English and female. It is my view that all racist attacks are disgusting but I am not sure if others share that view.

On a practical level I have already given my views on what should be done - more of a police presence on the streets especially at chucking out time (CCTV is all very well at identifying culprits but real live police officers are a better deterrent) and radical action on drink.

And that's all I have to say really.
323

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14/01/2009 14:18:07
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greenhill,

14/01/2009 14:18:58
I think the SNP falls down in failing to tackle anti English sentiment in Scotland.They could do more.I hope they improve on the matter.
325

,

14/01/2009 14:19:46
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Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 14:20:44
344 See the post I made at 339 I experienced the same when I lived in London, but I didn't make a big deal out of it. Posters coming on here and using this story to claim that anti-English racism is rife in Scotland are belied by the facts. You don't have anything to back up your assertion, you have no evidence - in short you are talking a load of hot air.
327

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14/01/2009 14:20:56
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English flag,

14/01/2009 14:20:59
345. Really, so why won't salmond agree to a GB football team,and why does he stir up hatred towards westminster,and why did he try and use chris hoy as a political football after the olypics!
329

Miss H,

14/01/2009 14:23:45
354 Because the SFA and tartan army don't want it. Simple as that.
330

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 14:24:44
340 I am quite aware that muslims are not a race. My point to Grahamski was that making general sweeping statements about Islamofascism is all part of the problem which we have in this country where Asians are by far the biggest victims of racist attack.
331

English flag,

14/01/2009 14:24:59
353. Your sarcasm does not become you,in fact it makes you look like the callous individual you really are.
332

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14/01/2009 14:28:59
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English flag,

14/01/2009 14:29:28
354. Oh well that's ok then,there are a lot of things England and wales don't want but we get them anyway,that is why there will be a GB footie team with Sir Alex Ferguson as head coach,as we say in England "Tough luck old bean".
334

English flag,

14/01/2009 14:30:24
358. Whatever, but at least i care!
335

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14/01/2009 14:31:00
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14/01/2009 14:31:29
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greenhill,

14/01/2009 14:32:49
RE Observer,,Glasgow 14/01/2009 14:24:44

We are all "including Asians" entitled to criticise Islamofacism. Islamofacists murder Asians as well as other races.
338

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 14:33:03
OMG it's Roseblue. As if English flag isn't bad enough. You must have signed on twice.
339

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 14:34:24
364 You're really not getting it are you ? Never mind.
340

stoatsnest,

Ham 14/01/2009 14:34:35
As a white South African I am familiar with institutionalised racism.
Racism exists everywhere and is to be deplored. However there are those who like to accuse anyone they don't like of racism, it's a bit like calling them child abusers.
Drunken yobs just like hitting people. They don't need an excuse.
341

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 14/01/2009 14:36:10
Presumably there are cctv cameras in Union Street, so here's hoping the sc*mbag is identified, charged, found guilty, and given the maximum sentence.
342

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14/01/2009 14:37:11
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Arbroath1320,

14/01/2009 14:37:28
#338 English Flag

I am a supporter of SNP and of Scottish Independance. As I have stated above, many unionist supporters are using this story to have a poke at SNP and now you are having a go at Alex Salmond.
Please show your evidence to prove that Mr Salmond is promoting anti-English bile. . . . . . .

No. Thought so. . . .

Regardless of my political or National point of view, I have nothing against the English. Having served in the Royal Navy, I have many English friends, and having attended the Fire Service college in England I have English friends in various English fire brigades. My brother is half English (long story).
Do not tar all Scots with your clearly anti-Scottish brush.
And please respond to my comment re your comment about post no.6
344

Miss H,

14/01/2009 14:38:04
359 That's a pathetic attitude. Let's be clear about this - if the SFA and Scotland supporters wanted a team GB the SNP would support that. But any decision affecting the Scottish football team should be taken by the SFA and by the suppoters who fund football. That's the way it is in Scotland and how it should be in England and Wales as well. Who runs football - the players, management and supporters or politicians?
345

greenhill,

14/01/2009 14:38:22
RE Observer,,Glasgow 14/01/2009 14:34:24

No you are not getting it. You cannot conflate race with religion.You can choose your religion but not your race. Those who criticise religious extremists are not racists.
346

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14/01/2009 14:41:01
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Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 14:41:40
366 the point I am making is really very simple. This is rather a sensationalist article which has managed to generate nearly 400 comments, amongst which are many claiming that anti-English racism is on the increase, and associating this in some way with nationalism. There is no evidence to support that. The majority of racial attacks carried out in this country are perpetrated on Asians.

The kind of comments posters like you have made about a general verbal animosity can be experienced by anyone who is living in a place they did not originate from. But it doesn't usually lead to physical attacks. So let's not get carried away here.
348

English flag,

14/01/2009 14:41:55
361. LOL, They already have!
349

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14/01/2009 14:44:38
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Hugh Roscombe,

14/01/2009 14:45:17
An infestation of kimba abounds.
351

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14/01/2009 14:46:47
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Arena,

paussac 14/01/2009 14:46:54
As an ex-pat Aberdonian, I am ashamed to see such moronic ignorance still exists in the city of my birth.
The police ,of course, are cluless. So clueless, in fact, that they think it's a racial assault. Will someone point out to the boys in blue that English are from the same nation, never mind race.
What you are looking for, Mr Plod is a local halfwit who drinks too much! I hope that narrows it down some.....
353

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 14:47:19
374 People do conflate race with religion all the time. That is why anti-Islamic sentiment can lead to attacks on Asians. Police figures support an increase in attacks on Asians in this country with a parallel rise in anti-Islamic sentiment. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure it out.
354

Stan Butler,

14/01/2009 14:47:25


#302. I apologise. You're absolutely correct. What fat Eck said was that 'we (by which I think he means the Scottish people, pompous or what?) didn't mind the economic side so much'.

I got mixed up because in my simplistic world view the social sides follows on from the economic side like night follows day. But then I'm not a brilliant economist like what fat eck is meant to be.
355

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14/01/2009 14:48:39
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Arbroath1320,

14/01/2009 14:48:47
Why are we not allowed to comment on the Colleen What'shername's brother story? Because it is about the relative of a celebrity? Because it's to do with football? Or because it doesn't stir up any anti-SNP dross?
Same about the Bin Laden story?
357

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 14/01/2009 14:49:44
Well I'm sure young Lucy will be very proud you managed to turn this into a childish squabble amongst yourselves.

For the love of god.
358

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14/01/2009 14:51:32
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359

Miss H,

14/01/2009 14:52:16
374 Do you think the young men who attempted to gouge the eyes out of my taxi driver friend questioned him beforehand about his religious views? He was a p@ki and a Muslim. That's enough for some people. As Observer says attacks on Asian people have risen dramatically since 9/11. Does that make people who criticise Islamic extremists responsible for those attacks?

If you accept the logic that the SNP by wanting independence are responsible for anti English sentiments in Scotland then the answer must be yes.

I don't accept that logic however so for me the answer would be no.
360

Miss H,

14/01/2009 14:56:20
385 That's very clear
361

Lianachan,

Highlands 14/01/2009 15:05:13
#374, and others

I see where the misunderstanding about what is, and isn't, racism comes from. It seems to stem from a basic misunderstanding of what the term "race" actually means.

The Oxford English dictionary defines race in many ways, including:

"a group of people sharing the same culture, language, etc"

This, obviously, very much includes different religious groups and suchlike.
362

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14/01/2009 15:05:27
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danbob,

14/01/2009 15:06:48
If some sections of scotland want to go down the road of attacking young woman because they have an english accent then you had better be ready for a deluge of scots returning north. The assault was clearly racist. It is no surprise considering the racist trash often spouted on here. And as for the freak that thinks hes hard hitting a woman, you are just a soft tw** in reality.
364

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14/01/2009 15:07:52
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Hickory,

US 14/01/2009 15:09:21
Aye, the hairy legged dolt had to pound on a wee lass. Maybe 'e should try a round with a full grown man. No, 'e couldn't do that because 'e might get 'is bum kicked. I guess some good Scots should wander in the area to keep innocents safe. T'is not just a Scottish problem, it's same all over. I see it over here too. Takin' out anger on one who canna defend themselves. It's not a real man that hurts a wee lass.
366

Churchill W.,

14/01/2009 15:09:28
Miss H# 348

I can understand why you would want to muddy the waters by quoting other racist attacks in Scotland. The fact is the thug who attacked Lucy Newman is likely to have derived his justification for doing so from the increased agitation induced by Salmond, Swinney and the SNP in general. This is evinced by that thug's epithet, 'Get back to f****** England – English bast@rd.'
When Salmond and Swinney say "Westminster" that is accepted by SNP supporters as code for England. The England that is responsible for all Scottish ills, according to that pair. Then you have the SNP drones describing anyone, who does not accept the "wisdom" of Salmond and Swinney as gospel, in very inflammatory language; language designed to victimise anti-SNP dissidents. But, you know that, to portray it otherwise makes you an apologist for Salmond and the virulent, gangsterish support that feels free to carry out an act like that described above.
The SNP will discover that inciting racist behaviours like that of Lucy's attacker is a double edged sword, the consequences of which might not be immediately evident.

Incidentally, for the benefit of those new here "Miss H" is actually a man and an SNP activist of long standing.
367

Rufus-T-Firefly,

14/01/2009 15:09:48
397 A genuine account,14/01

Still in denial I see.
368

danbob,

14/01/2009 15:12:28
397# F*** off back to England. If thats not racist what is in the circle you revolve in?
369

Rufus-T-Firefly,

14/01/2009 15:14:16
52 A genuine account,14/01/2009 07:25:19
Sorry but I aint subscribing to this piece of unionist Foulkes instigated garbage.
Its a disgrace the lassie was attacked at all let alone for her accent but if every such incident made headline news nothing else would be reported anywhere in the UK.
Its worse for the Irish especially in London.
===================================================

Really?
370

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14/01/2009 15:17:28
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Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 15:17:32
399 What a load of unadulterated codswallop. Miss H is certainly not alone in pointing out the facts of the matter, ie that the majority of victims of racial attack are Asian, not English. But why let the facts get in the way of a good rant eh ?
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14/01/2009 15:18:12
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14/01/2009 15:18:46
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14/01/2009 15:20:06
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Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 15:20:29
402 It's selective reporting Rufus. What about all the other victims of racially motivated attack. Why aren't we reading about them.
376

Alan B,

14/01/2009 15:21:06
#janeshore

My view that there has been a decrease of anti englishness in scotland since the scottish parliament is just from getting a feel of the general ethos of the country and statements made by people.

The scottish parliament means scotland blames scotland for more of our problems and political issues.

During the thatcher yrs the mass unemployment in scotland was seen to some extent rightly or wrongly as an english elected party with little mandate in scotland running scotland down for the benefit of the south east. It was seen as an english vindictiveness towards scotland to some extent. Even a more sophisticated breakdown would say it is not the north of england but southern vindictiveness towards the north. The tory attack on gartcosh and ravenscraig were just examples.

Things like the poll tax etc took the whole thing to a new level. ie scotland were just there to test ideas.

The undemocratic nature of the outcome of the 79 referendum where the majority view in votes cast added to the feeling. A uk government that will do anything even go against a majority in referendum to control scotland. A referendum where u needed something like 80% of the vote on a 50% turnout. Counted the dead as not wanting an assmebly.

With the scottish assembly the whole dynamics have changed. Although the weakness of it means that it has not changed the dynamics as much as it could. However with Brown in power the argument is more about whether scottish labour sell out scotland and england have little to do with any outpourings of political bile.

Other social factors have also contributed to i think the decline in anti english feeling. UK TV is not nearly as bad at insulting scotland, the decline of scottish football means the insults from english commentators means that it is hard to argue. U do not have a replacement for jimmy hill today. The whole rivalry of scottish english football games has disappeared when the annual game stopped.

The way i see it
377

Alan B,

14/01/2009 15:22:49
...
The way i see it the traditional anti englishness was driven by politics and the media. The problem was westminster never addressed the problem and allowed scotland to be treated with contempt until the problem took deeper route.






378

Rufus-T-Firefly,

14/01/2009 15:22:55
403 A genuine account,14/01/2009 15:17:28
402

Yep many of them were arrested during the IRA bombing campaign of London just for being Irish dont tell me you forgot already?
===============================================

But you are talking present tense.

So that still happens?
379

Jack and the Bean Stalk,

LONDON 14/01/2009 15:22:58
392

Asians or people with brown skin resembling Asians are attacked because of those terrorists with brown skin tried to ram into Glasgow airport with a blazing vehicle and others like them blew up London tube trains all in the name of supporting their brethern belonging to one religion. People in liberal countries like those in the Netherlands and Denmark have turned against those who represent that religion. During every visit to those countries, people look at me, a brown skinner with suspicion bordering hatred. I do blame them. I wish I tell them that I am not what they think I am as I am not a muslim but an agnostic person. Whenever my family travel in London underground we hear remarks which links us with that religion and those people even though we do not belong to that religion. There is no way of explaining to the abusers as they see brown man like me representing
that terrorist of Glasgow air port. I do not blame them but instead blame those who shouts racism but fails to face up to the fact that their religion and people perpetrated these atrocities. I may even be attacked if I land in Glasgow airport on my way to
the city. Should I blame the attackers? No. Should I blame the terrorists and those who simply shout Islamophobia and racism without working hard to make sure that their community integrates well with the local society? Yes. It is they who should ensure that their community members affirm they are British first (or Scots first as the case may be) and then muslims next. I do not see this happening In Scotland or in England.
380

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 15:23:23
The man recently beaten by English sporting hero and thug "Stevie G" and his gang is called Marcus McGee.

Is he a Scot ?. I was just wondering why we can't comment on this story of Englander violence. Is it because the guy may be Scottish or Irish.
381

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14/01/2009 15:24:28
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Jack and the Bean Stalk,

London 14/01/2009 15:24:29
Freudian slip. I should have said" I do not blame them"
383

Miss H,

14/01/2009 15:24:46
399 Westminster is actually code for the Palace of Westminster which contains both the House of Commons and the House of Lords. In the same way people refer to the Scottish Parliament as 'Holyrood'. The rest of your comment is just mad.


384

Rufus-T-Firefly,

14/01/2009 15:25:01
409 Alan B,14/01/2009 15:21:06
#janeshore
The scottish parliament means scotland blames scotland for more of our problems and political issues.
====================================================
Unless of course the SNP are in power.

Then everything is Englands fault.
385

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14/01/2009 15:26:23
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Churchill W.,

14/01/2009 15:26:44
Observer # 404

I have not seen you, or, "A genuine account" (Aberdeenshire Scot, Ayrshire Scot, Union is Best) say how disgusted you are that a lout from Aberdeen should victimise a young woman because of her English accent.

All you and those of your Natz ilk have attempted to do is minimise, in snide and abusive terms, the damage that this has been done to the reputation of Scotland and Scottish people.
You know perfectly well that someone who spoke to the lady in the way that he did and attacked her as he did is likely to consider himself as a Scottish patriot, a Scottish nationalist, whether he is a card carrying member of the SNP, or, not. This is the legacy of the recent, racist rhetoric that has emanated from the leadership of your party; the SNP. Congratulations!
387

Calum Crubag,

Alba 14/01/2009 15:26:54
The media and newspapers in particular have to be blamed for these kinds of attacks. The Unionist Daily Record, whose editor is English, has printed some of the worst lowest-denominator hatred of England, usually at times of football tournaments.

Others papers regularly stir up hatred against various 'minorities' - asylum seekers, Gaelic speakers, Muslims etc.

Let's live and let live.
388

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14/01/2009 15:29:06
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Alan B,

14/01/2009 15:30:10
#Churchill W

Utter drivel.

It is hardly anti english for a scot to want scotland to want scotland to be run by and for scotland.

Some english that come to scotland support the snp as after living here for a while see that based on their experience scotland does not do as well as it should and see the political union as part of the problem.

The lowest common denominator unionist argument is to say supporting independence is in anti english. It is almost to argue that unless you support the union no matter how bad for scotland you are a racist. It shows the lack of depth in many unionist supporters reasoning for the union.

390

Rufus-T-Firefly,

14/01/2009 15:30:38
418 A genuine account,14/01/2009 15:26:23
411

No I am referring to racist sentiment directed at the Irish present and past. If the past isnt relevant to you then why are we discussing this story its already old news isnt it?
===================================================
Do you think the past as in yesterday, is more relevant than the past as in 30 years ago?

Or in your small mind should they both be considered as the present?
391

Miss H,

14/01/2009 15:30:57
412 Again I come back to my taxi driver friend who I have already mentioned who was subject to a racist attack - or Islamaphobic attack - I don't know which is most appropriate.

Now me personally, I think that the people responsible for that attack are the people who carried it out.

But seeing as how we seem to be in the business of apportioning political blame for such incidents who would you blame for that attack?

Would you blame him because he is a Muslim? That seems a bit harsh to me.

392

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14/01/2009 15:31:17
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14/01/2009 15:33:02
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Rufus-T-Firefly,

14/01/2009 15:33:24
420 Calum Crubag,Alba 14/01/2009 15:26:54
The media and newspapers in particular have to be blamed for these kinds of attacks. The Unionist Daily Record, whose editor is English,
===================================================
OH MY GOD!

IMAGINE HAVING AN EDITOR THAT IS ENGLISH.

WILLIAM WOLFE will be turning in his grave.
395

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 15:33:37
412 No - ''their religion and people'' did not perpatrate the atrocities. Al Quida and their off-shoots represent a tiny minority of muslims, and I am talking on a global scale. To blame every muslim for terrorism is like blaming every Irish person for the IRA.

And the Scottish muslim community is responding to the issues - that is why we now have a Scottish Islamic Foundation, and one of it's purposes is to achieve social cohesion. And what did they get from posters like Grahamski ? Abuse.

You might not be religious, I'm not religious, but in this country people should be allowed to express their religious beliefs without running the risk of being attacked.
396

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 14/01/2009 15:34:08
#399

“The SNP will discover that inciting racist behaviours like that of Lucy's attacker is a double edged sword, the consequences of which might not be immediately evident.”

A somewhat inflammatory statement.
Would you care to supply any examples of the SNP “inciting racist behaviour”?

Or a you just a balloon who’s political opposition to Scottish sovereignty causes you to think in terms of bile, imagined slurs and hatred?
397

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14/01/2009 15:35:13
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Alan B,

14/01/2009 15:36:09
#417 Rufus-T-Firefly

Care to justify that in any way.

Firstly most of the arguments between the uk government and scottish government are seen as brown vs salmond. Scot unionist vs scot for independence. Hardly anti english.

Secondly most of the fights as you call them have come via brown and his inability to accept scotland rejected labour.

Thirdly your position seems to be that a scottish government should accept the position of the uk government and not stand up for its own political point of view.

The biggest driver to undermine the union at the moment is browns ego and control freakery.



399

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 14/01/2009 15:39:24
I know Lucy. She lives in my village. She sounds 100% Scottish to me (whether she's been drinking or not) so I find it hard to believe this was racially motivated. The attacker is obviously a thug.
400

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14/01/2009 15:40:17
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 14/01/2009 15:41:32
432 Peter

Not sure what you mean by an anti english "culture".
402

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 15:41:38
419 Utter mince from you, as usual. First post I made I said that I hoped the thugs who attacked her were brought to justice.
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14/01/2009 15:41:59
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danbob,

14/01/2009 15:43:17
429# It's not the SNP who are inciting racist behaviour. Racist behaviour comes with nationalism anywhere in the world. Germany in the 30s comes to mind. Why has this post got to the stage of a political slanging match. Surly there is nobody on here who finds it hard to condemn the fact that some awesome freak thinks he's hard hitting a young woman.
405

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 14/01/2009 15:43:23
435 Wardug = The evil face of prejudice.

Just because a thug attacks an English person, that does not make him a "nationalist".
406

Jack and the Bean Stalk,

LONDON 14/01/2009 15:43:57
424

Your argument is silly. Let me spell it out as you are wishy washy in your reply. The terrorist who attacked the Glasgow airport did so because his muslim brethern were attacked in another country. One of the 7/7 terrorists blew up the tube trains clearly said in a video recording that his muslim brethern in another country were attacked. What political activist like your self should do is to say to the muslim community in Scotland that they should publicly state that they are Scots first and Muslims next in that order. Otherwise,
they would be condemning the non-muslim Asian community to a future which would be bleak indeed. I do not see this happening. Skirting around this issue prattling 'racism' is not addressing the nub of the problem. Mrere shouting of Islamophobia does not address the issue.
407

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 15:45:24
Vinny, you paranoid twonk:

Traditional subjects such as history and geography are to be axed in the biggest overhaul of primary education for 20 years.

Timetables will instead be arranged around six 'areas of learning' that merge subjects into general themes.

Pupils will also spend more time learning how to deal with 'deep societal concerns' such as violence, drug abuse, obesity, teenage pregnancy and debt.

Children are becoming computer literate in primary school. Six-year-old Rajaei Sharma, pictured, was the youngest child to sit a GCSE - in information technology
The blueprint was drawn up by former Ofsted chief Sir Jim Rose following a request from Children's Secretary Ed Balls.

It amounts to the biggest shake-up of primary schooling since the Tories introduced a national curriculum in 1988. The national curriculum was organised around 11 subjects - an arrangement that has broadly continued to this day.

The Conservatives last night warned the plans, likely to come into force in 2011, would lead to a 'further erosion of standards'.

They pointed to similar 'child-centric' reforms of the Sixties and Seventies which experts say led to a collapse in literacy and numeracy.

Tory education spokesman Michael Gove said: 'In adopting this throwback to the 1960s, the Government is denying the highest quality of education to children in the state sector. The experiment with this kind of ideology - moving away from facts, knowledge and rigour - failed 40 years ago and will fail again.'

Under the plan, history, geography and religious education will be merged into 'human, social and environmental' studies.

Other areas cover communication (English and modern languages), science and technology, maths, physical health and wellbeing, and the arts.


Schools Secretary Ed Balls says officials sometimes underestimate children's knowledge of computers
The aim of scrapping distinct subjects is to allow teachers to introduce them in o
408

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2009 15:47:04
434 Where do I make out he was a Scot? you pathalogical liar. Stop humiliating yourself.
409

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 14/01/2009 15:47:27
442 Wrong thread?
410

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/01/2009 15:47:43
441 We could also avoid illegally invading another country leaving a million dead in the wake and shipping people off to Guantanamo Bay. That might help a bit too.
411

danbob,

14/01/2009 15:48:18
442# I would cut and paste that post and put it where it belongs.
412

Miss H,

14/01/2009 15:48:51
441 Scottish politicians don't really feel they have the right to order people around in that way. Religious views are a matter for the individual primarily, not the state. The state of course has the duty and right to maintain security and public order and should any individuals pose a threat to security and order to take action. But trying to dictate to people what they must believe would be the action of a totalitarian state, not a liberal democracy.
413

Churchill W.,

14/01/2009 15:49:29
Alan # 422

You are talking drivel. I haven't mentioned the Union.

Salmond has done what demagogues do, inflame his chosen audience, in whatever coded language he chooses and then steps back and watches the result. Salmond's chosen bogey is the English, after all he tells you that England is responsible for all Scotland's ills. People like you have chosen to accept that and that speaks volumes about you!
414

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 14/01/2009 15:51:30
448 Ahh, so now it's "coded language".

Well, I would suggest that your twisted mind is de-coding the language in a way that suits your personal agenda. This says far more about you than it says about Alex Salmond.
415

,

14/01/2009 15:52:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
416

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 14/01/2009 15:52:43
And just for the record, many English people live in Gourdon and they are an integral part of the community.
417

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 14/01/2009 15:54:24
#427 Rufus

“WILLIAM WOLFE will be turning in his grave.”

Would this be the individual you had in mind?

In 1969 he replaced Arthur Donaldson as SNP National Convenor, and it was during Wolfe's period as leader that the party had its greatest electoral success to the Westminster parliament, winning 11 seats in the October 1974 General Election. It is also Wolfe that is credited with doing much to develop the SNP as a clearly defined left-of-centre political party.

Billy Wolfe will be somewhat surprised and disappointed to learn from your educated hand that he has died.

Political debate is somewhat beyond your intellectual capacity it would appear.
418

Churchill W.,

14/01/2009 15:57:01
A genuine account # 425

You were moderated last week as "Aberdeenshire Scot" for your racist, homophobic and sectarian comments. You are discredited.
I have read all posts here today, you have not changed from the snide poster AKA "Union is Best." You know I am right, if I was in your position, a paid SNP drone, I would be as vociferous in my opinions too.
Unfortunately for you, my opinions of the SNP are shared with many people, some of whom I would disagree with politically when not discussing the SNP. Hard luck!
419

,

14/01/2009 16:02:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
420

Miss H,

14/01/2009 16:03:08
448 Coded language? So when he says something like: 'However, it appears that we are finally passing the peak of the inflationary surge. Indeed, last week the Governor of the Bank of England predicted that on at least one measure, inflation may turn negative in the coming year' his sinister followers can - by counting every seventh letter backwards and and every fourth letter forwards and referring to the master code book (Noddy and Big Ears go to Westminster) arrive at 'Arise Aberdeen and batter any passing English lass'.

By Jove what a fiend he is. The constant references ti Fat Eck makd him sound like a cheery villain, a sort of Billy Bunter-esque character, but I see he is actually more like the crafty and cunning Fu Manchu.
421

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 14/01/2009 16:03:54
#453 Wardug

Read what I said. Notice that I used the word "nationalist" with a small "n".

You were trying to equate naked thuggery with nationalists. That makes you prejudiced in my book.
422

Alan B,

14/01/2009 16:04:43
#448 Churchill W

You seem unable to justify your remarks.

Can you give any example of anti englishness from salmond? He talks of scotland and england having a good and positive relationship as independent countries.

A critism of salmonds approach is it gradualist and does not put independence to the fore.

How exactly should and leader of a political party standing for independence push his agenda?

Your critisms of salmand seem more based on the fact he is a popular political leader and has the xfactor few politicians have and the fact he stands for something you do not support.


423

P Rayner.,

Latin America 14/01/2009 16:07:37
Its simply the flavour of the month to refer to the cowardly assault in Aberdeen as racially motivated , at least in so far as a white Scot and a white English person were involved . The issue of anti English sentiment is overplayed , particulary with the ill educated who contribute to these pages . I´ve travelled extensively and lived in three or four different overseas countries and though I have very rarely experienced anti English- British prejudice . On the contrary being from England has been a positive ingredient .
424

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 14/01/2009 16:08:33
459 Peter

Thanks for the clarification. I would suggest that to claim there is an anti English culture in Scotland is a gross exaggeration and a generalisation. Unless of course you mean the English football team !