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There is no winter in the UK any more, experts claim



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Published Date:
08 February 2008
WINTER is disappearing as a season in Britain, with milder weather continuing from autumn into spring, experts said yesterday.
The curator of Kew Gardens in London said winter had disappeared altogether, with some trees flowering "months earlier than the norm", while a botanical colleague in Edinburgh reported winter conditions lasting just a week so far.

Dr Nigel Taylor,
of Kew, said plants were responding to a climate that was "behaving very strangely" – English hawthorn had already started growing its leaves, while the common ash was already in flower.

Yesterday Scotland saw temperatures more commonly of associated with summer. In Glasgow and Aberdeen it was 11C, while Edinburgh soared to a balmy 14C, comparable to the average maximum in July.

The Met Office also reported that last month was the wettest January on record for eastern Scotland.

Climate change is expected to bring winters that are both milder and wetter to Scotland. Dr Taylor said he was surprised to see native British species – used to wide variations in temperatures during the seasons – reacting as if winter was over.

"I was shocked to see these kinds of things leafing and flowering, and to do so at the risk of damage from frost and winter weather," he said. "No-one predicted winter was finished, but the behaviour of these plants shows winter has ended.

"Over the last 12 months there has been no winter. Last year was extraordinary, spring was in January, April was summer, the summer was cool then it was warmer and sunny in autumn.

"There is no winter anymore. Despite a cold snap before Christmas it is nothing like when I was younger. People are growing bananas outdoors now – my neighbour has had bananas coming to fruit. A lot of plants we now take for granted would not have survived the winter of 1963, which was the last proper winter."

And David Knott, curator of the outdoor living collections at the Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh, said: "The only winter we have had this year was the week immediately prior to Christmas, when there was a sustained spell of frosty days. We are beginning to notice some buds swelling in the garden … today daffodils are in flower in East Lothian and we have got rhododendrons in flower just now."

He said he was worried that the weather seemed to be changing at an increasing rate: "We can adapt to the pace of change, but the woody plants … you do wonder whether they can cope with the pace of change."

Helen Chivers, a forecaster at the Met Office, said the average temperature in December and January had been about one degree higher than the average for 1971-2000 and January in eastern Scotland had been the wettest on record.

"If you think on a broader scale, the climate change sort of scale, you would expect warmer, wetter winters," she said. "Last winter was a warm winter and it looks like this one is heading the same way. Although climate change cannot be judged on a couple of years, the warmer winters we have had recently would fit into that sort of pattern.

"In 1963, everything was covered in snow and I remember in the 1980s we had snow. But it's difficult to say winter has disappeared … it depends on what you take to be winter."

IN SEARCH OF SPRINGTIME

THE age-old signs of spring, which does not officially arrive until the Equinox on 20 March, are beginning to sprout months earlier than the norm.

Many flowers are already in bloom and we are looking for early examples spotted by readers of The Scotsman. Look out for unexpected seasonal changes in your garden or out in the wild and send stories or pictures to earlyspring@ scotsman.com





The full article contains 636 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 February 2008 10:55 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Climate change
 
1

Douglas,

Bathgate 08/02/2008 00:20:02
I remarked to workmates just the other day on the songbirds whistling and chirping away as I bought my chewing gum from Lidl. A sure sign that spring has sprung and the birdies know a bargain when they see one.
Climate change is it. One decent volcano erupting and the tax raising measures masquerading as atmosphere remodelling are for nowt.
2

Charles Linskaill,

.Edinburgh 08/02/2008 01:29:15
2 Chairman Gordon,
" If this isn't winter, then why the hell are we all freezing?"

Too..Darned Right,,mt heating bill must of gone up 50% in the last couple or more like 4weeks!
I Don't mind the Cold,, its the Scottish..'Damp-Cold' that gets to me, it just goes through everything, including.. 'poor-me'!

Hibernation sounds great!.. but only if you have a,
'Good-Woman'..to 'Snuggle-up-next-to'
Try it..its fab!
Then reality hits home on Monday Morning and all that cosiness..'Alas is..NO-More!
3

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08/02/2008 01:38:27
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11

Pilrig.,

Livingston 08/02/2008 06:27:55
4-11 big wean's playtime at the Scotsman I see.
12

John M,

Melbourne, Australia 08/02/2008 06:59:09
Perhaps these alarmists should look at the sky and figure out if it has been cloudy. Sunlight is a major stimulant to plant growth both from a light and heat perspective.

It's odd that they should say that 1963 was the last *real" winter. Global average temperatures were in a slight decline at the time and only rose from about 1975. I wonder why the winters seems warmer from 1964 to 1975...
13

wnaegele,

Albuquerque NM USA 08/02/2008 07:22:22
Sounds like your environmental correspondent has been chatting with some folk who have fallen down the rabbit hole....
14

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 08/02/2008 07:35:23
I've several times recently seen men wearing khaki shorts around the place, like they were Aussies or Boeties. They didn't seem to notice winter either.
15

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife news room 08/02/2008 07:36:26
H'mmmm,

Global warming does seem to be a very taxing situation. The cancleelor hasn't quite explained where all the tax raised has gone so far - apart from running wars, and building olympic stadiums....

I wonder how much fuel will be used just in getting the athletes and their hordes of hangers-on and supporters here?

16

Kenny A,

08/02/2008 07:51:29
No more winter, bloody loonie, storms, tides the works worse, he should have just said its getting warmer overall, would agree with that.

Very noticable over the last 15 years whever I have been in the world.
17

Iain fae Elgin,

London 08/02/2008 07:52:58
What's a proper winter then?

Having the heating on a lot? Scottish ski resorts storm bound with blocked roads?

Brrr...it's chilly. Wrap up warm now.
18

Nell,

The Preservation Hall 08/02/2008 08:03:00
"A lot of plants we now take for granted would not have survived the winter of 1963, which was the last proper winter."
I seem to remember it being freezing in 1984(ish) with record low temperatures.
19

donald,

glasgow 08/02/2008 08:09:41
The report was about the Yookay. Not Scotland. Winter ends at Carlisle.
20

donald,

glasgow 08/02/2008 08:10:42
And Wendy Alexander is innocent.
21

Joe,

The real UK 08/02/2008 08:19:12
#13.Cloudy? The light has been the poorest
I can remember this winter. If the street lights had sensors they would have been on 24/7!
22

Unimpressed one,

08/02/2008 08:21:52
'Experts' have spoken. What a crock. In 1977 when we had snow in June, I remember 'experts' saying normal summers were over, the new ice age was coming.
23

Nell,

The Preservation Hall 08/02/2008 08:41:20
No. 20:- Durrrrrrr Scotland is in the UK.
24

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 08/02/2008 08:51:36
Guess what Natural cycles are = they are cyclical. They go around and come around. The Earth has had weather for 3,000,000,000 years. We have been keeping records for - er - 200 years (Armagh Observatory hsa own of the best record sets from 1742 onwards).

The Global Warming hysterics ignore any science data that doesn;t confirm their theory. For example - the warmest period in the Arctic was the 1930s and 40s - when temperature was - wait for it - 4 degrees warmer than today. That is a huge amount - but guess what -- the icecaps didn't melt, polar bears did not become extinct - and sea levels did not rise.

In ten years time we could be facing the coldest winters since 1978 - when I personally experienced 8ft deep snowbanks along the roads in Braemar. The earth IS warming - at 0.6 degrees per century - but we are still nowhere near as warm as it was in Scotland during the Bronze Age and the Middle Ages. The Cheviot Hills - near here - are plastered with hill forts and field rigs which were cultivated at heights of 1500 ft 5,000 years ago. Nobody could survive winters up there in this age - let along grow crops on those slopes. We are just emerging from the Little Ice Age of the 1680s - that is all. Moreoever, the warming we ARE experiencing has little or nothing to do with carbon dioxide emissions. It's the SUN stupid.
25

Johnny M,

08/02/2008 09:00:15
So has winter also "dissapeared" in the USA, China, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iraq, Argentina, Australia, New Zealand and any of the other places which have had anomalous or even record cold in the past 24 months? Maybe the hsyterics should have spent some winter time in Chicago, or Shanghai to set their minds at rest.

This is what you call IMBYism.

Even Western and Central Europe was 3C below normal during winter 05/06, the cold just didn't get this far west that often.

We have a warm Atlantic right now, whilst most of the other coeans are cool or cooling, and it appears to cycle over a 30-40 year period. During the 60's-80's it was cold. Read about the AMO.

Whilst I don't doubt the radiative effects of CO2, at least in the lab, the Northern hemisphere has been colder during 2007 than at any stage since 1996.
26

Jambo-ree,

Borders 08/02/2008 09:27:38
So where were the experts to help me shift the snow off my drive and pavement three times during January then? Very interesting claim in the article that the average highest maximum temperature in Edinburgh in July is 14C. Don't think that's quite right - according to the BBC Weather site it's 18C. Kinda kncols your trust in the rest of the article having errors like that in it.
27

AJ Fife,

08/02/2008 09:43:38
These scientists get paid a mint for making this stuff up. We should at least contemplate their findings for one second....then ignore them!
28

jenny,

inveresk village 08/02/2008 10:39:26
There was a wasp crawling around on my allotment (Musselburgh) yesterday - not sure if it thought it was still autumn or had come out to inflict its sting on me nice and early.
29

George.,

08/02/2008 10:53:03
A few headline from around the world

Blizzard shuts down all major passes across Washington Cascades - 7 Feb 08
Idahna, Oregon buried in snow - 4 Feb 08
Cascade Snowfall 150 percent to 212 percent of normal – 3 Feb 08

150,000 Kashmir Pashmina goats face death in icy Himalayas
6 Feb 08 - The goats have been affected by a shortage of food because
winter pastures have been covered by unexpected heavy snowfall.

China's biggest desert Taklamakan experiences record snow
44,600 livestock die - 2,100 greenhouses collapse - 1 Feb 08
Tajikistan 'facing catastrophe' - Coldest winter in five decades - 6 Feb 08
Delhi reels under cold spell - 1 Feb 08

223,000 houses flattened - Investors may want to weather-proof
3 Feb 08 - China’s recent weather sent a deep chill through mainland-related
equities by dramatically exposing the frailties of China's quasi-market economy.
223,000 houses flattened
Crystal Mountain Ski Area
More than seven feet of snow in seven days
7 Feb 08
January posted a -.08°C near global anomaly between -70S and 82.5N latitude (the viewshed of the satellite sounder). That makes it the coldest month since January 2000, and the 2nd coldest January for the planet in 15 years. Both northern and southern hemispheres posted negative anomalies of -012°C and -.038°C respectively, happening for the first time since January 2000.

The United States posted a -.557°C anomaly for January 2008 and a -0.196°C anomaly for December 2007.



Why has the MSM not reported these weather reports?
30

Isonomia,

Lenzie 08/02/2008 11:15:22
2007 was globally the coolest year this century, temperatures have not risen since 2000. The temperarure variation at the end of the 20th century was well within the normal and natural change to the climate and when it falls we will all recognise this episode as yet another period of mass hysteria that fills the media from time to time like: themillenium bug/ salmonella in eggs/ triple vaccination/ aliens from out of space, etc, etc.
31

Isonomia,

Lenzie 08/02/2008 11:26:12
Where is the 60m of sea level rise they were predicting? Where are all the storms and destruction, where is all the disease that was going to spread around the world because of "greenhouse" warming?

If you want to know the truth about "global warming", just go to Greenland - it is called "Greenland" because like today there was a short period of warmth in the viking age and some enterprising (latent wind farm developer), tried to encourage settlers to the "Green" land - which didn't turn out to be quite so "Green" or warm as they had been led to believe.

Well I wish all the "Greens", would go live in "Greenland" because after a thousand years it is still a barron rocky icey bit of land and if they want to keep spinning this hype that "warming" is bad "cooling is good" I wish they would have the faith to follow the vikings to that barron "Greenland" and leave the rest of us in peace!
32

Neil,

Glasgow 08/02/2008 11:38:35
This expert sounds about as good as theses experts

"GLOBAL COOLING IDENTIFIED AS PART OF GLOBAL WARMING

Dr. E. L. Charmagny of the Indiana Institute for Science positively identified cooler temperatures as part of global warming. "The recent cold snap in America's midwest area proves that global warming is real," said Dr. Charmagny while enjoying a hamburger sandwich at a local McDonald's restaurant. He explained, "People don't understand that global warming takes many forms, including global cooling, an important part of global warming."

He cited as an example that when he was young winters were "a lot harsher", remarking, "It was very cold for days on end, and there was lots of snow. That's a scientific fact, I remember it! Now it's clearly warmer."

"Young punks nowadays take time off from school if there's two inches of snow on the ground. They need to have those iPods taken away from them, that'll teach them something."

Dr. Charmagny went on to explain that the cool weather in the Midwest is the Earth's 'sympathetic' reaction to global warming. "It gets so warm, that when it gets cold, it gets really cold. It's like when it's quiet after a lot of noise, it seems especially quiet. Again, that's a scientific phenomenon you can read about in any school kid's science book. If these little brats even read their schoolbooks. Brats."

http://antigreen.blogspot.com/
33

Isonomia,

Lenzie 08/02/2008 11:40:31
#35 - Chairman Gordon, you are very very wrong, there is a scientific consensus ... that consensus is that lot of climatologists will loose their job when manmade global warming gets proved to be the nonsense it is.

I believe there are already plans to retrain them to be UFO hunters!
34

Upbeat,

08/02/2008 11:49:20
33 Insominia.

Nobody seems to be paying very much attention to you today as you repeat your almost daily routine of selective posting and misinformation. .

Today you ask several questions along the line of : "Where are all the storms and destruction," etc. The post at 31 shoud help answer some of thses points for you. The tornadoes in the mid west of the USA are also a recent event you might care to note were the most sustained and powerful ever recorded.

The Global Climate is changing, far faster than all previous records have shown. At no time in recorded history has the climate changed as fast as it appears to be doing today. Yesterday it was expalined to you why the figures you quote here are only of limited value.

You were also provided with detailed links, and informed comment about the facts.

Then you chose to totally ignore a precise ( inconvenient ?) question about mankind's activities and the effect on ecological systems, perhaps because you have so little balance in your understanding of the issue.
35

Isonomia,

Lenzie 08/02/2008 11:58:01
#38 Upbeat - Oh dear I'm so afraid, "the climate is changing" - well my goodness, that is what makes it a climate, it changes!

And where is this 60m sea level rise that is supposed to be washing outside my window?

Funny enough, the sea is still in the same place as its always been except .... Oh my god .... it's been getting higher today, and at the rate its coming in that must mean we are all going to be swamped by the sea in a few days!

It must be global warming .... I'm so scared!
36

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 08/02/2008 11:58:04
Who IS this poster "," who consistently has his or her postings removed?

I once complained about him or her and it seems that he or she is a piece of work whose comments do not belong in these forums.

Must be a really, really bad person to have so many "removals".
37

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 08/02/2008 12:07:23
Gordon- repeat after me- "Weather is not climate"

Neil #36- you forgot to mention that the screed you copied and pasted is in fact a spoof, as it says on the website it came from:
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s5i29726
38

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 08/02/2008 12:07:54
Isonomia- can you find a timeline for 60 metres of sea level rise?
39

Isonomia,

Lenzie 08/02/2008 12:11:09
Guthrie, the nonsense 0f 60m+ sea level rise gets repeated about once a week!
40

Neil,

Glasgow 08/02/2008 12:15:38
"Neil #36- you forgot to mention that the screed you copied and pasted is in fact a spoof"

Well spotted.
I also failed to mention that it was written using words.
41

Upbeat,

08/02/2008 12:17:06
44.

.....by misinformed people such as you, mainly.





42

Isonomia,

Lenzie 08/02/2008 12:22:42
Dr Foster went to Gloucester,
in a shower of rain,
he stepped in a puddle,
right up to his muddle,
and BBC reported it as yet more conclusive proof of manmade global warming.

43

HA,

Beith 08/02/2008 12:36:21
If there is no winter in the UK any more how come I am spending a FORTUNE on heating my home? And I rarely put the thermostat over 19.

More mince from an "expert"
44

George.,

08/02/2008 12:36:58
Global warming will make it warmer.

Or Global warming will make it colder.

Or Global warming will make it dryer.

Or Global warming will make it wetter.

Or Global warming will make the Arctic ice melt away.

Or Global warming will add to the Arctic ice pack.

Or Global warming will make everything different, except not different the way Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury and Saturn are different. Other different.
45

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 08/02/2008 13:22:05
HA #50- fuel costs have risen dramatically over the past couple of years.

Gordon - stop getting hysterical- what peer reviewed report?
46

,

08/02/2008 13:52:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
47

Lock,

08/02/2008 14:11:44
'There is no winter in the UK any more, experts claim'

Good! I think we should all increase our carbon footprint immediately. No more moaning about the scheidt weather as our lack of pollution means we only have ourselves to blame.
48

Isonomia,

Lenzie 08/02/2008 14:19:00
You have to wonder about the brain-power of these eco-lobbyists who dream up these headlines.

Unless we are really really careful there will be "No more winter". It's a bit like telling schoolkids that unless they behave "there will be no more school".

Or telling MPs that unless you behave ... "we won't ask you about your donations".

What are the eco-fascists going to threaten us with next? More sunshine?

If only it were true!
49

Scott Frae Edinburgh,

Embra 08/02/2008 14:27:37
remember folks it is not global warming, it is climate change (or climate chaos if you are an environmental lobbyist).

Climate change means that any fluctuation in the weather can be heaped on the scaremongering mountain.

It seems from the comments above that I am not alone in thinking that this years winter was considerably colder than the last.
50

kimba,

08/02/2008 15:08:23
AJ. It's people like you that will destroy this planet,to many scientists have come to the same conclusion to ignore their findings.
51

kimba,

08/02/2008 15:14:29
..........IS STUPID.
52

George.,

08/02/2008 15:29:49
I wonder what was wrong with my post at 53?
Links to scientific studies that show an alternate reason for the ice loss in Greenland and Western Antarctic are hardly unsuitable to this debate. Someone can't handle the truth.
53

George.,

08/02/2008 15:39:38
57.to many scientists have come to the same conclusion to ignore their findings."
Yes and scientists have said the earth was flat and that the earth was at the centre of the solar system.

Going to school and getting an education are not the same thing. An education teaches you to ask questions. When someone tells you anything you should ask the following questions how,where,why & when. The most important two are how and why.
54

Isonomia,

Lenzie 08/02/2008 15:48:24
Just updated the wikipedia entry on Global warming with the latest 2007 figures, strange, the graph has now got a lot flatter and seems to be turning downwards!

Of course the eco-fascists won't allow it to stay!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
55

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, FL 08/02/2008 16:04:19
Some good arguments and good information on this thread.

My 2 cents' worth? Climate change is real and man-made because Chairman Brown and his ilk say it is and they say it is because that gives them an excuse to pile on more taxes.

Beware any boffin coming up with a theory that drinking water is a root cause of the (seemingly) increased flooding in England. (Drink, kidneys do their work, people flush, river levels rise, etc.) The Chairman will get hold of it and, before you know, drinking water will be more expensive than petrol.

Sad, really, to see Chairman Brown scraping the barrel like this. I didn't think he'd run out of ways to tax quite this soon.
56

AJ Fife,

08/02/2008 16:06:48
Kimba#58,

You hunt me down wherever I go on these boards and decry everything I say! It's heartening to know you're safely banged up in 70 Norton Rd(?). It's a pity the straight jacket still allows you to type!
57

Amparo de Glasgow,

08/02/2008 16:30:04
Now now chaps and chapesses

Yuzz urr aw getting yer panties in a wee twist here today huh?
Why Donald Trump might come and build a beach-side luxury complex in Helensburgh ...
... Kelvingrove Park will have lots of exotic fruit trees (oranges; avocados etc etc)
... to feed all these revolting students at Gilmorehill
... Loch Lomond
... will become the Costa del Glasgow


Look on the bright side ehhh??
58

Amparo de Glasgow,

08/02/2008 16:34:39
Plus let's not leave out London + Amsterdam
The twinned cities of New Atlantis (when the Polar Ice melts)

Picture this:
the 2020 Olimpic Games ...
London gets Gold Medal;
Amsterdam the Silver one
... for all the swimming events
Let's face it
... they will both
... have great swimming teams
... when they are submerged
... under 300 metres of H2O (water)
Huh??
59

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 08/02/2008 17:25:50
Check out:
http://www.warwickhughes.com/cool/cool13.htm
This scientist points out that Armagh Observatory has kept daily records of air temperature since 1796 - over 200 years. These show an absolutely CONSTANT and GENTLE rise in temperature of 0.6 degrees C PER CENTURY. The line of increase is absolutely constant - and this cannot possibly be the result of man-made carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels - since the widespread use of oil did not accelerate until post 1945.

Other 'inconvenient truths' he points out:

The period 1930-1945 saw a warming in the Arctic that was massive - FOUR DEGREES CELSIUS in 15 years. Guess what - the icecaps didn't melt' sea levels did not rise and polar bears did not become extinct. After 1945 the trend reversed - sea ice increased again and temperatures became very cold.

So - the planet has been warming gently - at the same rate since at least 1796 - and it is highly likely that the warming began a century earlier in 1680 when the Little Ice Age ended. The warming has nothing to do with human activities or carbon dioxide - it is caused by variations in solar activity and planetary orbit. It is highly probable that the current short term trend will reverse within the next century. Finally - an interesting factoid. How many times bigger than the earth do you think the sun is? Ten times? A hundred? A Thousand - surely not a hundred thousand. The truth is that the sun is ONE MILLION TIMES LARGER THAN THE EARTH. When and object is a million times bigger - and the surface temperature is 5,000 degrees C - it only has to vary a tiny, tiny bit - to make things 0.6 degrees warmer on earth - over a century.
60

Isonomia,

Lenzie 08/02/2008 17:43:10
Tweedmouth, I don't think the sun has a direct impact as you suggest, but more in an indirect way. The sun pours out masses and masses of ionising particles, and if you've ever seen a cloud chamber, you will know how ionising particles can seed clouds. So, it only takes a very small change in the number of ionising particles and you can find a massive change in cloud cover .... and as everyone knows, clouds can both reduce the temperature by blocking out the sun, and increase the temperature by acting like a blanket.

Given that this effect is an order of magnitude bigger than that suggested by CO2, it ought to be obvious that ionising radiation from the sun has a major influence on earth's climate - something very obvious if you have a look at the number of sunspots which indicate activity in this area and the temperature of the globe.

But of course this doesn't fit into the narrative of eco-guilt that the eco-fascists want to propogate!
61

kimba,

08/02/2008 17:58:56
aj.You really need a personality check!
62

Disputer,

08/02/2008 18:44:23
It's a lie. It's ALL lie to take our minds off the trams.
63

Disputer,

08/02/2008 18:46:51
There's no winter in the UK.
There's no summer in the UK.

Time for independence - you know it makes sense.
Vote SNP for a bright new brand tomorrow.

(This offer only available while stocks last).
64

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/02/2008 19:45:08
Is it global warming or climate change? Hmmm?

My wheelie bin blew over last night - as ir has done every so often sinse I moved here in 1995.

The winters do not seem to be so cold but you still have to anticipate all 4 seasons whenever you go out for the day.

Apparantly the Earth's magnetic field is reversing itself once again (as it does) and this brings about climate change.

Meanwhile, I shall continue to wonder what to wear every day and resist the new trend in taxes. After all we have to leave our children something to worry about and solve.
65

BK,

09/02/2008 00:02:31
"This expert sounds about as good as theses experts

"GLOBAL COOLING IDENTIFIED AS PART OF GLOBAL WARMING

Dr. E. L. Charmagny of the Indiana Institute for Science positively identified cooler temperatures as part of global warming. "The recent cold snap in America's midwest area proves that global warming is real," said Dr. Charmagny while enjoying a hamburger sandwich at a local McDonald's restaurant. He explained, "People don't understand that global warming takes many forms, including global cooling, an important part of global warming."

There's a job for him on the Electoral Commission. "Wendy has done nothing illegal although she has broken the law!"
66

Kipling,

09/02/2008 01:24:13
The snails don't want to come out of their shells yet. They sense the general change of temperature to a colder air when it's winter and then they sense the shift away from winter into spring (helped by increased humidity). It happens very quickly, like a sort of undercurrent change in the texture of the air rather than related to the up/down of the thermometer. But I must admit, the season has become shorter. It's now well into November when the winter hibernation period starts, and already at the beginning of February a very few of the older ones have emerged out of what is a sort of hibernatory 'rite de passage'.
67

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 09/02/2008 08:44:28
#73 BK

See #42.
68

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 09/02/2008 09:22:13
#72 Chairman Gordon

You've been going on about the BBC report of the paper about the Larsen B ice shelf for a couple of days now. This one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/7231372.stm

Perhaps you would like to explain to us how that report in any way "challenges" MMGW.

It doesn't, of course. The BBC report of the paper states "that global warming had a major part to play in the collapse".

But it identifies at least two other factors besides warmer air temperatures.

One of those was warmer ocean temperatures. (Now Gordon, sit down and think very hard and ask yourself "why do you think the ocean was WARMER?" I've put one of those words in capitals to help you.)

The second factor identified was structural weaknesses in the ice shelf itself, identified as "the location and spacing of fractures on the ice shelf" or "a gradual decline in the ice mass".

So, all the paper is saying is that other factors were at work, other than a warmer atmospheric. It doesn't deny that the atmosphere in the region has been getting warmer (how could it? the temperatures records show that it is), nor that the warmer air had a part to play.

By the way, the behaviour of ice sheets and ice shelves is not well understood. That is why, in the latest IPCC reports, no account is taken of the contribution of ice sheet melting to sea-level rise (other than that already experienced). This means the figures given in the reports of sea-level rise are almost certainly underestimates.

69

kimba,

09/02/2008 10:06:11
Tell that to my frozen toes!
70

Will Hiley,

Dundee 10/02/2008 18:59:03
I guess the statement that the average July maximum temperature for Edinburgh is 14 C is evidence for the truth of the article in the Guardian last week showing that 80% of news stories are not checked by the reporters or editors. The average *overall* temperature in July (that is, average over all times of day and night) is around 14 C for the south-east of Scotland. It's just another example (OK, a fairly minor one) of how misinformation can be propagated and magnified through the media to create states of panic over non-existent threats, of which global warming (global hot air might be a better moniker) is the most egregious example.
71

Edinburgh bound,

Sydney 11/02/2008 05:49:47
Anything would be better than the revolting 28C and 85% humidity at 10:30pm that we had for about 2 weeks running few weeks back.

(this is one of the reasons why we are moving to Edinburgh - the cooler temperatures... though not sure if there is any snow... I hope there is)
72

eyeswider,

work 11/02/2008 10:09:16
#79 You should stay where you are if you want overall pleasant.

This is just one of the many (many) similar current non-newsworthy stories:
http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=287279412587175

Here comes Anthropogenic Global Cooling. I hear the sound of sticky hands rubbing together in anticipation of yet more BS grants.

Is it any wonder that lay people are starting to think that science and scientists are bought and paid for just like "our" politicians and media.

Personally I haven't entertained much from either camp for some time now. Apart from being entertained in the comedic sense. They both ignore the oldest warning in the disinformation and misdirection industry - never believe your own propaganda.


Don't be surprised if we see snow before June. The last week in Feb will be the last "unseasonal" weather until the end of May.

The sun did it. It is going to get cold. Soon.

73

Lastsocialist,

The soft underbelly of Europe 15/02/2008 21:44:37
"Yesterday Scotland saw temperatures more commonly of associated with summer. In Glasgow and Aberdeen it was 11C, while Edinburgh soared to a balmy 14C, comparable to the average maximum in July" -

Sorry, but this is inaccurate. According to the BBC website http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/city_guides/results.shtml?tt=TT003780
the min and max temperatures for Edinburgh are 11C and 18C respectively. Sorry Scotsman, but 14C is closer to the average high for May. You really wanted this story to be true so you took journalistic licence with the 'facts'. The causes and reality of global warming are still disputed; for you to present it as 'fact' is disingenuous. This kind of sensationalist reporting doesn't help anybody, although it may help you to sell newspapers.

You might also like to know that the Romans cultivated vineyards as far north as Yorkshire during their occupation of Britain - these things are cyclical.
74

'Smee',

Canada 08/07/2008 14:37:40
'Warmer winters'! Temporary! The World is on a cycle and the colder winters we remember WILL return - they always do!
Global warming is nothing but a money grab for those who think they know better - Get rid of the smog - London did by not using coal - now no 'London Fogs' so clean up the smog and let us breath more easily - but Global Warming. . . . . .!!!!!!!Penalizing the 'wealthy' Countries - (some of them) - get a life!

 

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