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Bard in the hand: Trust accused of hiding Burns' mental illness

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Published Date: 07 June 2009
HE IS the Scottish national bard and a romantic figure who wrote some of the world's most famous poetry and songs.
But a new analysis of Robert Burns' handwriting to mark the Year of the Homecoming pointed towards a conclusion that proved just too embarrassing for culture chiefs: it suggested the Ayrshire poet suffered from manic depression.

Joan Charles, an intuitive analyst, was asked by the National Trust for Scotland to examine a selection of Burns' letters and writings. She and NTS staff concluded that the 18th-century writer experienced extremes of mood that might today be classified as bipolar disorder.

However, although the word bipolar was included in a report submitted to senior Trust officials, it was later removed. The romanticised image of the bard is a central part of the Scottish Government's Homecoming Year theme aimed at attracting thousands of tourists to Scotland in 2009.

Instead, the Trust issued a watered-down version of Charles' observations which made no mention of extreme moods, even though Burns biographer Robert Crawford suggested earlier this year the poet suffered from a mild form of manic depression and Burns himself referred to it as episodes of "blue devilism".

Last night, a mental health group now accused the Trust of "editing history" for not allowing the findings to be published in full.

The Trust said the word bipolar was taken out because the evidence was not sufficient to support such a diagnosis. David Hopes, the NTS curator of the new Robert Burns Memorial Museum project in Alloway, said: "There were handwritten notes that used the word bipolar and a press release was going to be issued by a public relations company. But in the meantime the NTS intervened. There was real concern that we were painting this picture of a lunatic Burns, which we weren't trying to do at all."

Hopes, who worked with Charles on the project, said the findings did nevertheless cast new light on the bard's mental state. "There is a suggestion that Burns was bipolar, which may have influenced his writings" he said. "It's normally accepted that Burns wrote because he was inspired by nature, or love or his political views.

"This suggests he was writing as a defence mechanism or as a release. It reveals an edgier Burns, writing, as Joan says, to fill a void in his life. The condition could have been a psychological motivation for his writing."

Charles, who is employed by a range of companies to provide personal development programmes based on intuition, says she had no prior in-depth knowledge of Burns' life or his works before starting the project.

The documents included letters he sent to friends, relatives and potential lovers as well as famous manuscripts such as Scots Wha Hae and Such A Parcel O' Rogues In A Nation. Her method involves analysing documents for emotional tone rather than picking up on handwriting characteristics.

She found a range of emotional highs and lows within the documents that she agreed could be consistent with manic depressive episodes. In the manuscript of Song On Miss W.A. (The Bonnie Lass O' Ballochmyle), written in 1986, she reports: "This is an upbeat song. Burns is sexually excited and in good humour when writing this piece."

But in the manuscript of A Winter Night, written the same year, she observes: "Burns was feeling very low and was in a deep, dark place when writing this. He had a tender heart that was misunderstood and this is crying out with hurt from within." Charles added: "If you were to look at Burns' writing, you could term that a bit bipolar. But the Trust thought that was a negative connotation."

Charles said she had not used the word bipolar when discussing the findings with the Trust's PR agency. "I said he was a bit erratic, and up and down. I was asked 'like bipolar?' I said, 'yes', but if you want to use the word bipolar that's your connotation. It was put in there at some stage, but I was told the Trust didn't want to use that."

Previous studies of bipolar disorder have shown a clear link between creativity and manic depressive illnesses.

O'Donnell said the full finding should have been publicised. He said: "It is always helpful to talk about these things. Bipolar disorder is associated with drink disorders and sexually risk taking behaviour which Burns obviously ticks the box for these. People with this also mix in a whole range of social situations in the up phase in an uninhibited way even though they may be from a lowly background. Again Burns ticks the box."

He added: "Some of it might have shown up in his work in that you have poems of great elation and emotional intensity and others that are quite morbid and depressive."

A diagnosis would not have been available in Burns' day, nor treatments such as medication or behavioural therapy. "Then, alcohol was often used to self-medicate," O'Donnell added.

Nigel Henderson, spokesperson for 'see me', Scotland's national campaign to end stigma and discrimination around mental ill-health, said: "We regret the NTS's decision to remove the reference to Burns' experience of bipolar disorder.

"It seems a shame that, in this day and age, we can't talk about people's experiences in full, and if the evidence suggests Burns did indeed suffer from bipolar disorder, to remove such a reference is effectively editing history.

"Part of what shaped Burns as a person and a poet would've been his experience of bipolar disorder, which undoubtedly will have contributed to inspiring his creativity."

Condition can be crippling or creative

Bipolar disorder, also known as manic depression, is believed to be caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.

It is a condition in which people experience abnormally elevated and abnormally depressed mental states.

The abnormally elevated mood differs between sufferers, with some experiencing a mood clinically referred to as mania and others hypomania, a milder form.

The current term "bipolar disorder" is relatively new although the diagnosis can be traced back to the 1850s.

Some sufferers find their illness devastating while for others it has been associated with creativity and outstanding achievement. Around 4 per cent of people are thought to have some form of bipolar episode at some point in their lives, with late adolescence and early adulthood the peak times for the onset of the condition. A combination of genetic and lifestyle factors are thought to play a role. Sufferers can use self-help, psychotherapy or medication to alleviate symptoms.

Varying degrees of bipolar disorder had been associated with some of the most creative individuals in history including Ernest Hemingway, Sylvia Plath, Virginia Wolff, Vincent Van Gogh and Charles Dickens. Other sufferers include the comedian Stephen Fry, who attempted suicide in 1995.


The full article contains 1142 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 June 2009 9:36 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Robert Burns , Homecoming
 
1

Canada,

Canada 07/06/2009 00:15:11
What a load of rubbish. We all have mood swings now and then. It's part of being human.
2

Fifi la Bonbon,

07/06/2009 00:42:42
It's a load of rubbish, not because the late Mr Burns might or might not have lived with mental illness, but because various people are trying to use the possibility for their own ends.

I have no idea what an "intuitive analyst" is, but is sounds like the title a snake oil merchant would use.

Mr Burns had a hard life, facing chronic physical illness, crushing debt and other difficulties. It is not surprising if his mental health was impaired. And it is possible that like many great artists he lived bit a bipolar condition.

But it is shameful for people to try to turn this to their own advantage or, equally, to act as if they were ashamed on his behalf.
3

Fifi la Bonbon,

07/06/2009 00:44:17
"Joan Charles, an intuitive analyst, was asked by the National Trust for Scotland to examine a selection of Burns' letters and writings. She and NTS staff concluded that the 18th-century writer experienced extremes of mood that might today be classified as bipolar disorder."


Are any of these people qualified to make such a diagnosis?
4

Fifi la Bonbon,

07/06/2009 00:46:20
"Nigel Henderson, spokesperson for 'see me', Scotland's national campaign to end stigma and discrimination around mental ill-health, said: "We regret the NTS's decision to remove the reference to Burns' experience of bipolar disorder."


I think they mean that they see the possibility of co-opting Mr Burns as a role model. That is just as creepy as the NTS and their PR filth trying to suppress the diagnosis by a bunch of amateurs.
5

missing home,

la verne 07/06/2009 01:01:07
I think they fail to see the connection between the creative, imaginative mind and temperament - the one depends on the other. Had he been of an even disposition he wouldn't have had the inspiration necessary for his poetry likewise most artists. Their keen insight both inspires and depresses. It's a chicken and egg thing, creative due to temperament or temperamental due to creativity.
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 07/06/2009 01:04:41

One cannot comment on the long gone Robert Burns, and 'Handwriting', I never studied.
All that I would like to comment on, that the syndrome talked about, this being, "Bipolar disorder", is a very real one for some, and when you realise that a loved-one, or someone close to you, is suffering from this disorder, it is of no laughing matter, and NOT a subject to be taken lightly, Burns was lucky, the flip-side of the coin (Bipolar disorder), is that it Totally Devastates ones Life, and to those around them, watching Helplessly.

7

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

07/06/2009 01:20:13
#2 Fifi la Bonbon - "I have no idea what an "intuitive analyst" is, but is sounds like the title a snake oil merchant would use."

Intuitive :

Knowing, or perceiving, by intuition; capable of knowing without deduction or reasoning

Analysis :

A method of proving a proposition by assuming the result and working backward to something that is known to be true.

Looks like a career in intuitive analysis beckons.
8

Edward,

07/06/2009 01:28:16
This really is a stupid story, its actually a cloaked attack on Homecoming Scotland!
Robert Burns has been a long times dead, his handwriting has also been available for any type of analysis for a long time. But some how it is only just now that this has crawled out the wood work! Coincidence?
I suppose if I was the man , who managed to get into every bit of skirt in Scotland I would be depressed, NOT!
9

Iain Mac,

07/06/2009 01:31:55
What a load of cac. You might as well read Burns' tarot cards or give him his star sign. There's little or no scientific fact behind this.

Is the Scotsman the new Sun?
10

Iain Mac,

07/06/2009 01:32:52
What TF is the NTS doing wasting money on this tripe?
11

brianmca3,

auld reekie 07/06/2009 01:39:44
sounds like a bunch of holy willies with an axe to grind,so what if he had mental illness,its his works that have lasted and will last
who knows maybe shakespear liked cross dressing,and chasing sheep,but did it stop him writing classic works of art?
why rake into someones mental state from so long ago ,that any answer given cant be disproved/proved,just leave rabbie in peace
12

Robert Dunn,

Edinburgh 07/06/2009 01:54:47
Why did the NTS decide to employ an "intuitive analyst"? Who at the NTS made the decision? Is this a really useful/helpful way of spending "our" (the Nation's ) cash?

Is such any analysis based on anything but a quasi-scientific/expert basis?

Who cares? Does this example of 21st Century techno-babble meant to be a serious contribution to our understanding of Burns's genius? I think not.

13

Edward,

07/06/2009 01:59:07
Tell you what though, why dont the analyse Gordon Brown's hand writing. It will say volumes of how he is a delutional meglomaniac deppressive
14

Fifi la Bonbon,

07/06/2009 02:06:27
The good news is that Joan Charles, intuitive analyst, has got a website, which tells us that "over the past 17 years, Joan Charles has proved beyond doubt to be one of the world's most gifted lectures and counsellors in the fields of clairvoyance, psychometry and psychic development."

Clairvoyance. She's a feckkin fortune teller.

The National Trust for Scotand has employed a fortune teller to carry out a psychiatric diagnosis of our long dead national bard.

FFS. WTF. OMG. etc. etc.etc.

Read more at http://freespace.virgin.net/joan.charles/home.html
15

Fifi la Bonbon,

07/06/2009 02:12:07
Ooh! You get a photo of Joan Charles International, fae Greenock, if you follow this link!

http://freespace.virgin.net/joan.charles/
16

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 07/06/2009 02:16:14

#15,

They always say!,..'Chubby-is-attacted-to-Thin'. :)

17

,

07/06/2009 02:16:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 07/06/2009 02:16:47

#15,

They always say!,..'Chubby-is-attracted-to-Thin'
19

Fifi la Bonbon,

07/06/2009 02:18:50
#13 Edward - Nadine Dorries MP, hoping to attack Gordon Brown, did precisely that when he wrote to her recently. The conclusion?

It says Gordon Brown is:

1. Goal directed, and generally well-intentioned;
2. Independent and self-starting;
3. He has been extremely careful in this writing;
4. You can tell when he's past, present, future;
5. He likes to be in charge and has sense of responsibility;
6. Doesn't agree with people just to be popular.

http://chrispaul-labouroflove.blogspot.com/2009/04/private-letter-from-gordon-brown-sound.html
20

allandale,

Stirlingshire 07/06/2009 02:27:22

Joan Charles, who was previously the "Scottish Sunday Post" clairvoyant and star gazer, who uses the Tarot and gives demonstrations on Psychic/Spiritual abilities.
I know who should be analysed!!

21

Fifi la Bonbon,

07/06/2009 02:31:15
The Sunday Post? It gets worse!!!
22

,

07/06/2009 03:10:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

,

07/06/2009 03:24:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

suileandubh,

OZ AND . . . AYRSHIRE 07/06/2009 04:25:07
JOAN CHARLES, KEEP YOUR STUPID SMALL MINDED IDEAS TO YOURSELF. WHO CARES IF BURNS HAD A MENTAL ILLNESS. PLANTY OF PEOPLE DO . . . BIG DEAL. THE MAN WAS A GENIUS . . . WHICH IS MORE THAN WE GLEAN ABOUT YOU. WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO DO BY COMING UP WITH SUCH DRIVEL? THERE IS NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF IN HAVING MENTAL ILLNESS, IN FACT IN THE ARTS WORLD IT'S FAIRLY COMMON. ARE YOU SHORT OF BUSINESS OR SOMETHING? AND SAD THAT THE TRUST HAS NOT GAINED A 'PSYCHIATRIC' ANALYSIS JUST THE SKEWED VIEW OF SOME BAMPOT. SHAME ON YOU NTS FOR YOUR LACK OF FORESIGHT AND INTELLIGENCE IN NOT BEING ABLE TO ACCESS A CREDIBLE SOURCE. OH DEAR . . .IF WE COULD SEE OURSELVES AS OTHERS SEE US.
25

suileandubh,

AYRSHIRE AND OZ 07/06/2009 04:27:03
OOPS . . . AFTERTHOUGHT. WHY DON'T WE HAVE JOAN CHARLES' HANDWRITING ANALYSED? I DON'T THINK WE'D FIND IT QUITE SO INTERESTING. THAT'S MY INTUITION.
26

suileandubh,

Ayrshire and Oz 07/06/2009 04:32:20
. . . and another thing. The only people qualified to make such a diagnosis would be a psychiatrist. I.e a medical aspecialist with much training and expertise in mental illness . . not some wifey who's a clairvoyant for the Sunday Post. Bring on the Broons.
27

Nelson51,

Newcastle 07/06/2009 04:45:23
Sounds like somethind the Sunday Sport would write. Double Decker bus found at North Pole, etc.
28

FISHWICK,

berwick upon tweed 07/06/2009 06:47:44
Sounds to me like she is saying he was good at putting the ambiance of his environment into words. If you've got a hangover and can still write brilliantly does this make you a manic depressive? Acoholic maybe - depressive nah!
29

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 07/06/2009 06:50:46
Joan Charles is a troubled individual. She is unable to comprehend objective thought and instead hides behind a vale of imagination.

Her world is what she cares to make it and she is so deluded, that SHE BELIEVES SHE CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE.

She has a deep desire to become successful, harbouring her own fears that she does not possess the ability, intelligence or appearance that will give her the success that has been her lifelong ambition, long since the kids in her street hurled personal abuse and bricks at her.

It is indeed odd that she has found solace and support for her inane thoughts with The National Trust for Scotland.

30

,

07/06/2009 07:29:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
31

donald,

glasgow 07/06/2009 07:30:45
Don't know which is worse for Scotland; intuitive analysists, the anti Scottish National Distrust, or the Northbritishperson.
32

urchin,

07/06/2009 07:43:54
Insecurity,an ailment that all artist share.
33

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 07/06/2009 07:51:42
I have never heard of anything in Burns's actual behaviour, as reported, that would corroborate such a diagnosis. Of course handwriting - which, neurologically speaking, is basically "brainwriting" by the motor cells - is an important indicator of brain activity and brain condition, but it is much too facile to read a single diagnosis into it. My right hand was injured in a mountain accident, which has permanently impaired my writing style. I would hate to have an "intuitive analyst" come up with some fanciful interpretation of my mental condition on that basis, to say nothing of advancing arthritis, etc. It is unsafe to draw any such conclusions unless all of the relevant parameters are known, which is clearly not the case with Burns. I know of nothing in his lifestyle that supports such an assertion.

34

Don Roberto,

07/06/2009 07:53:41
I have no problems with this. The NTS were quite rightly carrying out an analysis of an extremely complex character.

Despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth above, I'm sure that Joan Charles was simply doing her job. Rather naively, in an attempt to make us all embrace the notions of mental illness a bit better, I suspect she's gone to the previously anonymous Jeremy Watson to take bipolarism out of the Burns closet. Only to find a hack who has grasped an opportunity to please his editor and have a kick at the NTS, Homecoming and by dint of that, the Scottish Government who have been using it as an exercise to bring folk back to Scotland.

Burns Ya Bassa!
35

Observer,,

Glasgow 07/06/2009 08:01:12
I'm not remotely surprised by this, as the article says many people of creative genius are bi-polar. If you know anyone with this condition you will recognise the signs and will realise that Burns may well have fallen into this category.

But really it's a big so what ? Surely having a mental health issue is not a big deal these days. I thought we had all grown up a bit.
36

Nelson51,

Newcastle 07/06/2009 08:31:46
The Met made a mistake, it was Joan Charles they should have shot, along with the bi-polar Labour Government.
37

Roy,

07/06/2009 08:37:03
As No. 36, Observer, says, 'So What?' If Rabbie had periodic mental highs and lows, it makes him a more interesting person.
38

EPH,

Kent 07/06/2009 08:48:15
#36 So what are the signs?
39

Phil C,

07/06/2009 08:52:30
#36 Indeed Observer. It's been known for a many years that Burns was bi-polar (manic depressive). This is a story of the some eejits at the NTS choosing to ignore the fact that Burns has a creative 'mental illness' and some even more ignorant peasants disgracefully using this to try to belittle Scotland and Burns.

Rabbie is one of a very, very long list of great leaders and artists who 'suffered' from this condition.

They include leaders like Churchill, Napoleon, Nelson, Cromwell, Mao, Roosevelt & Lincoln....

writers and poets like Victor Hugo, Stevenson, Dickens, Bronte, Tolstoy, Balzak, Paternak, Keats, Barrie, Johnson, Ibsen, Tennyson, Baudelaire, Thomas, Kipling....

artists like Picasso, Turner, Wilkie, Rubens, Michelangelo, Landseer, Van Goch, Gaughin....

musicians like Bach, Beethoven, Elgar, Chopin, Mozart, Tchaikovsky, Wagner....

Livingstone and Columbus were bi-polar along with Florence Nightingale, Martin Luther, Darwin, Einstein, Newton, Watt....

and many, many modern day celebrities and performers.

40

Pilrig,

Livingston 07/06/2009 08:52:39
The money wasted on the intuitive analyst joker could have went towards keeping Inveresk Gardens open.
41

Pilrig,

Livingston 07/06/2009 08:53:47
39 - Wagner wasn't bi-polar/manic depressive. Get yer fact right.
42

Pilrig,

Livingston 07/06/2009 08:54:42
correction, above post was answering poster 40. Get my numbers right !
43

Boy Wonder,

07/06/2009 08:58:22
Burns:
Whit's the maitter wi' me ah ask
Dae yez jis no' get mah writin'
It's poetry yez daft auld gowks
No' mental illness, that's 5hite 'n
a'body wull ken yon
'Cept youse, cos yes huv nae idee
Whit it's like tae be like me
Whither a' write aboot a moose in the hoose
Or hae swoons ower a red, red rose
Huv yez no' heerd o' "imag'ry"
A lan'scape in the mind
Is that madness, or this bipolar thing?
Well, it comes tae us a'
Since we a' huv imagination
Tae sustain us as a nation
O' poets ... aye, Celtic warriors
Singin' sangs as we fecht
It's wir wey! It's whit we dae
Yese ca' me a Bard ...
Aye, that's whit they say ah am
But you, Mrs Charles ...
You're a bam ...
Like the rest o' yese
That try tae psychoanalyse
A man whae's lang deid!!!

Eejits!!!








44

Phil C,

07/06/2009 08:59:26
#42 Pilrig. I didn't know the man personally but he appears on many of the lists of famous bi-polars. You might care to check.
45

Castle Hunter,

Airdrie 07/06/2009 09:05:48
Can some enlightened egg head out there explain to me how you can tell a person's mental state from their handwriting? Seems like another anonymous scientist trying to get into the media spotlight.
46

Phil C,

07/06/2009 09:08:13
#46

I think it was more to do with what he wrote, rather than his hand-writing.
47

Americanbob,

07/06/2009 09:18:15
Quote from this story -
In the manuscript of Song On Miss W.A. (The Bonnie Lass O' Ballochmyle), written in 1986, she reports: "This is an upbeat song. Burns is sexually excited and in good humour when writing this piece."
Obviously this woman is one hell of an analyst, she reports on works by Burns written 190 years after he died!!!!!
48

Phil C,

07/06/2009 09:25:15
#48 "Obviously this woman is one hell of an analyst.." No, she just found some 'spillage' on the page!
49

jdships,

Edinburgh 07/06/2009 09:32:15
Joan Charles - WHO ?
Self styled something or other - methinks
Bottom line for me and I am sure thousands more is we enjoy Robert Burns writings
50

mr broon,

Edinburgh 07/06/2009 09:42:59
As already stated in this article, many famous men and women have suffered from one form of mental illness or another.

Winston Churchill suffered from severe depression throughout his life and called it his 'Black Dog'. His doctors believe this was caused by his large appetite for alcohol.

Churchill was in illustrious company with Martin Luther, Issac Newton, Franz Kafka, along with Goethe, Schumman, and one of the greatest names in Russian literature, Leo Tolstoy.

51

Williamson,

Canberra 07/06/2009 09:44:29
What a whole lot of nonsense. Why was good money spent anaysing the writing of a man who died in 1796? You either enjoy his works or you do not; make your choice and get on with life.
52

Gordon, Canonmills,

07/06/2009 09:44:43
Burn's works stand alone. To be appreciated, or not (if that happens to be your unfortunate case!).

In their own words, "The National Trust for Scotland is the conservation charity that protects and promotes Scotland's natural and cultural heritage for present and future generations to enjoy."

And they see fit to use donated funds to commission this psuedo-scientific gobblediegook?

Thay have done themselves no favours on this one.
53

Ewan Randall,

07/06/2009 09:44:47
If the man’s a man for a’ that then why not read on these links?



http://www.psychology4all.com/Graphology.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_believed_to_have_been_affected_by_bipolar_disorder
54

Pilrig,

Livingston 07/06/2009 09:53:47
45 - I had a look at a few of the lists that I could find, and they seem to quote a book called Wagner and Suicide by John Louis DiGaetano, a professor of English. So it appears to be a matter of opinion.
I have no idea if Wagner was bi-polar, after all he died in 1883 ! He was driven, no doubt about that. I'd argue that he was driven by the his artistic genius. And if hr suffered from mood swings, you have to remember for most of his life he was in debt and on the run from his debtors, and of course for many years barred from re-entering his native Germany.
55

Brodric,

07/06/2009 09:54:10
It is utterly irrelevant to make suppositions about someone long dead - these can never be conclusive. And O'Donnell and Henderson are obviously trying to use Burns to their own end.

The fact is that many creative people live extraordinary and often challenging lives. That some may be unusual or display degrees of mental health problems is not the central aspect of their legacy.

Unless we know for CERTAIN, we have no right to alter history.

As O'Donnell says: 'A diagnosis would not have been available in Burns' day". But neither can it be made respectively.


56

Phil C,

07/06/2009 10:03:42
#52 & #53

You miss the point. In their wisdom the NTS commissioned an analysis of Burns' writing by some psychosomething. This probably didn't cost much.

Joan Charles delivered said analysis and intimated the well-known fact that Burns showed bi-polar characteristics. This is not shameful and indeed it is a very common trait in creative geniuses. In their own ignorance the NTS chose to leave out this fact, through a common misunderstanding of the condition. There should be no stigma but they attached one.

Anyway the press twists whole story round, et voila, a mountain of madness out of an molehill of ignorance!
57

Phil C,

07/06/2009 10:19:21
#55 Pilrig

I have no idea if Wagner was bi-polar iether. Though your comment about Wagner was tongue-in-cheek based on a death long ago, as with Burns his writings would tell us all we need to know. Burns has been a well-known bi-polar for a long time.

The powers at NTS have shown themselves to be misguided in their knowledge of the 'illness', and insulting to 'sufferers' like myself!
58

MIC,

Moray 07/06/2009 10:38:22
How much did the NTS pay Joan Charles for this report? They would be better off spending their money in trying to keep some of their properties open to the public.
59

The Ayrshire Bard,

07/06/2009 10:39:17
The lady is partly correct. Burns di suffer a form of depression but not bipolar. There can be no doubt that the life of Burns was cut short by Brucellosis, not Rheumatic Fever or any other problem.
Brucellosis. A rare bacterial infection caused by various strains of Brucella which may be transmitted to humans from affected cattle, goats and pigs. It may also be transmitted in unpasteurised dairy products. Initially it causes a bout of high fever, backache, poor appetite, weakness and depression. Untreated severe cases may lead to pneumonia or meningitis. In long term Brucellosis, bouts of the illness recur over months or years and depression can be severe.
That was the life of Robert Burns as a young man.
60

The Ayrshire Bard,

07/06/2009 10:45:59
Continuing. I have read every letter written by Robert Burns and they are incredible. They start as a young man prior to his years of fame and are more like exercises in essay writing than letter writing. Then as he becomes famed as a poet the letters become lighter although he displays a remarkable knowledge of world affairs and politics, eventually dipping into a serious mode as he realise his life is about to end.
Totally normal and without any hint of mental illness.
61

Webbie,

mullingar 07/06/2009 10:47:37
#44 have you been to see your intuitive analyst recently, such great poetry tells me that you may have mental problems.......
62

The Ayrshire Bard,

07/06/2009 10:49:59
Finally, the following lines written by Burns in 1793 show exactly his amazing perception.
Q. What is Politics?
A. It is a science wherewith, by means of nefarious cunning and hypocritical pretence, we govern civil Polities for the emolument of ourselves and our adherents.



Q. What is a Minister?
A. A Minister is an unprincipled fellow who, by the influence of hereditary or acquired wealth, by superiour abilities; or by a lucky conjuncture of circumstances, obtains a principal place in the administration of the affairs of government.

Burns was simply a great genius who was struck down by a dreadful illness.
63

Prudence,

07/06/2009 11:26:30
There's no such thing as genius without bi-polarism. For the National Trust for Scotland to deny Burns his , is the same as Picasso's Guernica having a drape put over it in the United Nations, so as not to affect "sensibilities", before inflicting "shock and awe" on the people of Iraq.
64

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 07/06/2009 11:37:30
Marvellous!

The mental health of a genius, who died 213 years ago, has been analysed and a diagnosis has been given by a fortune teller.

This "Journal" is trying to rival "The Daily Mash". It's just not as funny.
65

Dung like a Honky,

barlinnie 07/06/2009 11:40:43
so Burns was 4ucked in the heid? who cares a tinker's cuss anyway.
66

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 07/06/2009 12:12:56
Joe,Relugas Road 07/06/2009

Comedy isn't your strong point, is it?
67

Miss Pixie,

formerly of Dinleyhaughfoot Cottage, Roxburghshire 07/06/2009 13:05:32
I have bi-polar disorder. I am proud of it.

The only "shame" here is the ignorance of the NTS!
68

Stewart_in_Oz,

Alexandra Hills 07/06/2009 13:12:26
Does 'Physic-Analyst' have something to do with Broomsticks and Pointy Hats?

Anybody with half a functioning brain knows that genius does not reside in the normal person, so why attach a label to that genius after death as if in an attempt to discredit. Seems that some organisations and the individiuals in them and the areas they spend their time, money and sources of research need a good overhaul.

I read several years ago that some Irish bloke maintained that Burns couldn't have been Scottish, as he was too jolly etc. to have lived in Puritantical Protestant Scotland, so he must have been Irish.(By implication, nothing like the drunken fornicating countrymen on which he was modelling his opinion?)

Who cares what condition Burns' mental state or condition was? It is more important and relevant to evaluate the man by his works, because conclusions by some pseudo-expert will have no influence on the relevance or value of Burn's work or standing in history.
69

Tiger Earl,

cordoba 07/06/2009 13:43:37
So now we're going to judge the human qualities of geniuses by listing their mental flaws? Isn't a human being by definition a creature that makes progress by capitalizing on setbacks? Are we going to disqualify Van Gogh, Mozart and other geniuses on such grounds? Or perhaps "big brother's" relentless machinery is already tring to turn us all into mushy milksops! Thank God for people who can turn their setbacks into works of genius!! The more credit to them!!
70

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 13:58:38
"Last night, a mental health group now accused the Trust of "editing history" for not allowing the findings to be published in full."

It's not history! It's the asinine babbling of some fatuous reader of goat's entrails.
71

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 14:04:44
8
Edward

"...its actually a cloaked attack on Homecoming Scotland!"

Another ludicrously contrived ant-SNP piece from what used to be one of the great newspapers.
72

Jean Armour,

Scotland 07/06/2009 14:08:07
I don't think the National Trust for Scotland is at fault here. It didn't actually "withhold" any information at all - if Joan says herself that she didn't wish to use the term "bipolar" then why on earth would it be right for the NTS or anyone else to put words into her mouth?! It's not at all about being all precious in our PC approach of embracing people's mental illnesses! See the wood for the trees, people...

Joan's analysis was purely subjective, right? She's not psychiatrically qualified. This looks like an insightful attempt on the NTS's part to provide a different and interesting take on the great Bard - one which I'm sure the Trust saw as an exercise which people would find of interest. It seems there are some too ignorant to appreciate this, including the journalist, who has accused them of withholding information which never actually existed in the first place. Saying he was categorically bipolar would have been completely wrong for both the NTS and from Joan's perspective. Perhaps Jeremy Watson could have included more detail about what was ACTUALLY found instead? Clearly the sensational angle of having a pop at the NTS made for more exciting copy and a happier editor.
73

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 14:09:59
69
Miss Pixie

"I have bi-polar disorder. I am proud of it."

It is hardly something to be proud of. It is a disorder, not an achievement. I think (hope) that what you meant to say is that you are not ashamed of it. And neither you should be! For, just as it is not an achievement, neither is it a failing. It is just a condition.

What you may be justly proud of is having found a way to live with this condition. Many don't.
74

Fifi la Bonbon,

07/06/2009 14:10:25
She only seems to be qualified to operate a crystal ball and read teacups. With how much silver did the NTS cross her palm?
75

Jean Armour,

07/06/2009 14:20:37
"In the manuscript of Song On Miss W.A. (The Bonnie Lass O' Ballochmyle), written in 1986, she reports: "This is an upbeat song. Burns is sexually excited and in good humour when writing this piece." "

Perhaps Mr Watson should speak to his sub - this song was penned in 1786.
76

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 14:20:54
76
Fifi la Bonbon

"She only seems to be qualified to operate a crystal ball and read teacups. With how much silver did the NTS cross her palm?"

The real story here is the NTS giving money to this fugitive from a fairground tent.
77

Mèths,

07/06/2009 15:03:17
What a shoite article and what a waste of money. I despair (like Burns).
78

Eve,

Scotland 07/06/2009 15:15:15
What a strange article this is, why should it matter. Have some of these people never heard of the the saying "see the person not their illness"!

If you want to use this to help people, (especially those who are employers) to see the positive stuff past metal illnesses. As well as even suggesting that writing poetry or doing other creative past times as something that can help people say mentally healthy.

BUT if it's just to pernicky and smear Rabbie Burn's name, then there is just no point to this article at all because. The mans been died along time and their is no way you can prove much about him other than his gift. And why should any thing else matter?


Out of curiosity is there any thing Vincent Van Gogh did have?
79

Eve,

Scotland 07/06/2009 15:18:21
Opps just realised the mistake in # 80.

Out of curiosity is there any thing Vincent Van Gogh didn't have?

Sorry missed out the n't in the didn't
80

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 15:24:10
81
Eve

"Out of curiosity is there any thing Vincent Van Gogh didn't have?"

A full set of ears?
81

Calum Crubag,

07/06/2009 16:22:44
Is this one of the worst pieces of 'news' ever in the Hootsmon? What a load of mumbo-jumbo.
82

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 16:30:32
83
IndependentlyInclined

"...I can confirm that it certainly has very little to do with "just feeling a bit tired and fed up"..."

Who do you imagine you are quoting here. Nobody has said this.
83

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 07/06/2009 17:18:20
David Hopes, the NTS curator of the new Robert Burns Memorial Museum project in Alloway, said: "There were handwritten notes that used the word bipolar and a press release was going to be issued by a public relations company. But in the meantime the NTS intervened. There was real concern that we were painting this picture of a lunatic Burns, which we weren't trying to do at all."

David Hopes, you have just stigmatised people suffering from bipolar syndrome by labelling them as "lunatics". Stupid, damn stupid.
84

Eve,

Scotland 07/06/2009 17:23:01
#82 Electric Hermit: Well he started off with a full pair!!

Ever so often I hear about another conditions that Vincent Van Gogh had!!

If you believe everything that you read about him, you'll find that Vincent Van Gogh has had or suffered from ever conditions that has ever existed.

In reality it's even debatable if cut off his own ear or if some one else did it. As I read some where that his ear might have been cut off by someone who was jealous of some sort of love affair.
85

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 17:57:36
87
Eve

I even heard that he didn't actually write "Starry Starry Night". Sheesh! Is nothing sacred any more?
86

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

07/06/2009 18:29:08
Van Goch cut aff his lug, and his work is still deein weel

87

livilion,

livingston 07/06/2009 18:51:27
Aye, the Scotsman true to form, anything pass-remarkably Scottish and it's stick the boot in time.

Now why might Robert Burns seem depressed?

let's see:
On one hand: his native land recently sold out by a 'parcel of rogues', Scottish land 'improvements' getting into full swing, British occupation forces building garrison forts and military installations to subdue his countrymen, Scottish culture still outlawed, Boney across the Channel ready to invade, dislocated from the support of his extended family in Kincardineshire by civil war.
On the other: his businesses in ruin, his poems selling like hotcakes but little of that money reaching his pocket, fatal disease wracking his body, and insufficient means for him to support his pregnant wife and children.

I'm sure, if faced with similar circumstances, I might be prone to getting a bit fed up and miserable too, and I haven't even considered his tortured love-life.
88

livilion,

livingston 07/06/2009 18:58:53
btw I have a sore foot that bothers me in the morning, do you think if I supply a sample of my handwriting the doctor could diagnose the problem?
Might save the bother of having to go visit the doc.
89

Bejjy,

Europe 07/06/2009 19:41:08
90 livilion,

I'm sure, if faced with similar circumstances, I might be prone to getting a bit fed up and miserable too, and I haven't even considered his tortured love-life.

The way a lot of you Scots who habitually frequent these forums whinging constantly about the plight you suffer living under the rule of a "foreign" Government and occupational forces makes the rest of us in Europe, well those of us at least who know the existence of a place called Scotland, think that you are a nation of depressives just like your fellow countryman Burns.

90

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 19:56:58
92
Bejjy

"The way a lot of you Scots who habitually frequent these forums whinging constantly about the plight you suffer living under the rule of a "foreign" Government and occupational forces..."

It's always good to have different perspectives. I somehow doubt that the view from atop your village dung-heap will add much to the debate on Scotland's future. But thanks for sharing.
91

Bejjy,

Europe 07/06/2009 20:18:41
93 Electric Hermit,

Thats a bit rich for you to refer to where I live as being a "dung-heap" when you don't know where exactly in Europe I actually do live. As well as living and working in many European cities I have also lived and worked in many British cities including Edinburgh and Glasgow which I can assure you are more of a "dung-heap" (and thats putting it mildly) than most of the places I have seen elsewhere.
92

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 20:22:22
94
Bejjy

Oops! I went and touched the tantrum button.

I'm sure you are just as welcome whatever dung-heap you visit.
93

Bejjy,

Europe 07/06/2009 20:26:28
95 Electric Hermit

No tantrum button at all, just the stark truth.
94

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 20:30:47
96
Bejjy

"No tantrum button at all, just the stark truth."

Hallelujah! We are now blessed with The Truth according to the Great Dung-hill Dweller.

95

Jo Flo,

ready in anticipation 07/06/2009 20:31:14
Oh Bejjy, how nice of you to have leapt like the lamb into the debate bleating

Carry on


96

Bejjy,

Europe 07/06/2009 20:50:08
97 Electric Hermit

Oh dear, says everything about an abusive individual who calls him/herself an Hermit and who probably is and who has never left the village/hamlet in which it lives. Get out and about and experience life, it might chill you out a bit and make you a little less bitter and abusive.

98 Jo Flo

Why do you Scots who habitually frequent these forums find criticism so difficult to accept? And take note, I distinguish between those of you who are here whinging frequently who a tiny minority of the population of Scotland and the vast majority of the population who just get on with their day to day lifes. The majority of Scot that I have worked with in both Scotland and elsewhere were not moaners or whingers because they got on with living their lifes even if that meant moving away from Scotland.
97

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 07/06/2009 20:50:42
I make it:-

Electric Hermit - 3

Dung Hill Bejjy - 0


98

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 20:54:06
99
Bejjy

I'm sorry! I didn't realise you expected to be taken seriously. I promise to try harder in future.









Nah!


99

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 07/06/2009 21:00:20
I score it so far:-

Electric Hermit - 4

Dung Hill Bejjy - 0

(At 99, Dung Hill Bejjy scored an O.G.)
100

Retired,

Long Beach, CA 07/06/2009 21:14:03
Burns was an artist. Art and artists can be analyzed forever, but there is no easy category to make it clear why creativity does its magic. Unfortunately, fringe types like to read handwriting, read tea leaves, read the stars, and come up with all sorts of easy explanations for why a poet can do what he or she does. This sort of analysis should be dismissed for the silliness it is.
101

Jo Flo,

07/06/2009 21:17:58
Bejjy

Och, it'all patter, ignore us, we just like having a go, a bit of banter, crack..

So you were saying..?

102

Jo Flo,

watching white proud Water Iris 07/06/2009 21:26:09
Retired, Long beach

Thank you, I was saying something similar but with less good words.

The best art works have been from artists, and we all are potentially, who have been troubled, skint and facing/living in troubled chaotic times.

103

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 21:28:11
103
Retired

"This sort of analysis should be dismissed for the silliness it is."

Did that as soon as I read the words "intuitive analyst".
104

Jo Flo,

near the radio 07/06/2009 21:40:20
when do we hear about scottish euro results?
105

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 21:42:03
107
Jo Flo

"when do we hear about scottish euro results?"


Ask Joan Charles. She has doubtless "intuited" them already.
106

krusty the klown,

07/06/2009 21:56:32
when I was at primary school a teacher read us burns poems every day. We thought they were crep and we didn't have a clue what this gibbering was about. We said so one day at a 'say and tell' session and the teacher cried a bit - and did not appear for work the next day - in fact never came back. Result
107

Electric Hermit,

07/06/2009 21:59:02
109
krusty the klown

Somehow, I find it easy to believe that this is the proudest achievement of your life.
108

hoblar,

07/06/2009 22:58:03
In the manuscript of Song On Miss W.A. (The Bonnie Lass O' Ballochmyle), written in 1986, she reports: "This is an upbeat song. Burns is sexually excited and in good humour when writing this piece."

But in the manuscript of A Winter Night, written the same year, she observes: "Burns was feeling very low and was in a deep, dark place when writing this. He had a tender heart that was misunderstood and this is crying out with hurt from within." Charles added: "If you were to look at Burns' writing, you could term that a bit bipolar. But the Trust thought that was a negative connotation."

The words 'radio' and 'rental', or perhaps 'Mickey' and 'mouse' spring to mind.

Where is an alternate opinion?

Artists/genius can indeed be troubled people who have lived life and learned to express their feelings in a manner that strikes a chord with those who are less able to express their feelings but can get release from the genius words, art, movies and any other artistic media provided by others.

This article consists in the main of a load of supposition and should have had a counter opinion from somebody somewhere who might know more about Burns than a clairvoyant.
109

hoblar,

07/06/2009 23:00:35
"when I was at primary school a teacher read us burns poems every day. We thought they were crep and we didn't have a clue what this gibbering was about. We said so one day at a 'say and tell' session and the teacher cried a bit - and did not appear for work the next day - in fact never came back. Result"

You turned out a bit of a genius right enough, proving that being a right daftie is cool.
110

Nellie,

Liverpool 08/06/2009 01:43:05
#69 - Miss Pixie. I'm a member of the same club! As you know, being a member has it's ups and downs ....
111

Nellie,

Liverpool 08/06/2009 01:58:11
I'm Bipolar (Type 2, the "milder" version but the most dangerous of the two types.)

I don't celebrate the fact that I am BP, but I do that I have (thus far) survived it. (It attracts something like 20% mortality.) Thus, I recognise the importance of trying to keep a positive outlook and to see the plus side of this illness. So, it is encouraging (to say the least) if one can find examples of high achievement among people in spite of their bipolar disorder.

However, I get really ticked-off (I'm trying to be polite) when I read all those claims that so-and-so who lived 200 years ago was definitely bipolar/manic depressive. It's bunkum to state so with such certainty especially as there are other mood disorders with similar symptoms, especially Cyclothymic Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder. We cannot know, not for sure, that anyone had Bipolar Disorder if they were not diagnosed with it by a qualified, experienced clinician. We may SUSPECT they were, we might even think it was PROBABLE given known, verifiable facts about their behaviour. But we cannot be certain, so no such claims of certainty should be made about Burns, Churchill or anyone else in history beyond that time before BP was a recognised and diagnosable disorder.
112

Ham Mei Si,

Hong Kong 08/06/2009 02:33:10
If you've been to the Arctic and Antarctic then you are bipolar richt? Thats nething tae be ashaimt of!
Now The Reverand Hector Nairn was once believed to be bipolar, but he refuted the suggestion! And stated that he had never even owned a pair o' budgies, nevermind a pair of polar bears.
However Joan Charles is likely bipolar herself, considering her fixation on poles! Or maybe she jist needs her heed look't at.
113

Ted Voth Jr,

Mad Town Wes' Consin 08/06/2009 02:37:21
'It's normally accepted that Burns wrote because he was inspired by nature, or love or his political views.

"This suggests he was writing as a defence mechanism or as a release. It reveals an edgier Burns, writing, as Joan says, to fill a void in his life. The condition could have been a psychological motivation for his writing."'

All the above.

There's no shame in being bipolar. The more complex and sensitive the mechanism, the more can go wrong with it.

Thank God for Robert Burns, though he wouldn't like my saying it…
114

Rothiemurchus 55,

USA 08/06/2009 06:53:26
A poem for Rabbie!!!
Robert Burns-polar
If Rabbie Burns were bi-polar
the Scottish lassies would by far
Beg to differ in all their care
with the conclusion drwn from this affair

Those lassies did enjoy a drink
and contemplated what Rabbie did think
and ended their days and nights in bed
hung over and unconscious with what was said

So, the Borders beware of doctors and shrinks
who analyze too often with invisible ink
the writings of a poet so true
Let Rabbie rest and enjoy his due.
JA Macintosh
115

Keith Mac,

Edinburgh 08/06/2009 16:35:52
Robert Burns most definitely suffered from depression. Any real, true, honest enthusiast will tell you/concede the point too. One poem alone tells you that clearly DESPONDANCY - An Ode. Read it and weep. He made no attempt to hide it all. But then, as a youth, he experienced some backbreaking , seemingly never-ending labour and witnessed some of the most savage treatment of ordinary souls and children ever seen whilst later, seeing all the excesses and greed of the "ruling" classes. What he never did was shrink away from his life responsibilities. He constantly fought against and overcame the "despondency", until his health broke down and he could fight no more. He brought up his own family and looked after his brothers and sisters etc; with absolute devotion and dedication, and never failed them. He should be remembered for that quality, more than anything, in my opinion.
116

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

09/06/2009 18:55:52
Bi-polar shmolar...he probably wrote when he wis p*shed and sober...hence the difference in the handwriting...if ye saw mine when ah wis p*shed..ye'd know whit ah mean....

 

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