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Government 'will win over' critics on road pricing petition

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Published Date: 20 February 2007
THE Government was today defiant over its plan to bring in road pricing on Britain's trunk routes despite growing opposition to the scheme.
Transport Minister Stephen Ladyman is adamant it can win over critics of the proposal, including 1.6 million people who have signed an e-petition on the Downing Street website branding the tolls "sinister and wrong".

This week Prime Minister Tony Blair will e-mail signatories to the online petition telling them charging for using roads is "surely part of the answer" to solving the growing problems of congestion and global warming caused by greenhouse gas emissions from vehicles.

Mr Ladyman said those behind the petition had been putting forward "myths" about the issue.



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  • Last Updated: 20 February 2007 9:42 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Road tolls
 
1

petrol head,

Edinburgh 20/02/2007 12:36:44

The reason that the tolls were branded sinister and wrong is because they are.

It is sinister that people will be tracked all the time when they are driving and it is wrong to charge people for things that they are paying for already.

When are this government going to learn that when 1.6 million people say "no" to something, they mean NO! They don't mean "well, I don't think so, but I'll take the next batch of spin into account and then I'll probably agree with it anyway because the government knows best".

This bunch of money-grabbing fascists need to be booted out.

2

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 20/02/2007 12:53:06

It is not so much "win over" as "completely ignore" the wishes of everyone who objects to the principal of paying twice for roads and having their movements tracked.

3

Androsthenes,

Edinburgh 20/02/2007 12:55:26

THIS LABOUR GOVERNMENT IS 'SINISTER AND WRONG'-GET RID OF IT!!

4

JayJay,

Glasgow - ish 20/02/2007 13:00:58

Mr Ladyman is only angry because he hasn't had the time to put forward his own set of "myths".
I listened to him (or one of his colleagues) on Newsnight and was appalled to hear that, rather than this applying to the likes of the M8 or Forth Road Bridge, all roads would be priced. If they are serious about pricing some of the pothole strewn dirt tracks round our way, then they had better think again.
But since Mr Ladyman is in the first stages of his full spin cycle, perhaps he could consider some of the following points: -
a) the recently introduced air passenger duty "green tax" appears to be going into a general "pot" as opposed to some environmental fund. Why is that and how can we ensure that all the other planned green taxes will be ring fenced?
b) why should Scotland pay any road tolls when we have some of the worst road infrastructure in Europe? Our best road leads out of Scotland, and even that is only 3 lanes when you are well out of any major town.
c) can you categorically say that, in overall terms, the "average" motorist will be no worse off under this scheme?
d) will the charge apply at peak times or all times?
e) what will you do about the ridiculous cost of public transport. For example, I bet you could, at a stroke of a pen, get more people onto the Glasgow Edinburgh train route if it was £5 rather than £16.90 return (assuming Scotfail could find the carriages). But there again, how "joined up" is the sort of thinking that privatises public transport, then fails to understand why public transport is not so well regarded?
f) what are you planning to do when the freight industry passes this cost onto customers, thereby increasing inflation? So not only are car owners boned for using their car, everything else goes up in price as a consequence.
g) any cost estimate on all of this, especially for the computer system. The Governement tends to be ro

5

Daytona,

Perth 20/02/2007 13:07:36

The political response brings to mind the comments from the recent Power Enquiry into the political system -

"As we took evidence, the difference between the public response and the 'insider' response was palpable. The politicos have no idea of the extent of the alienation that is out there."

http://www.makeitanissue.org.uk/think_/archive_/

6

Jams,

Embra 20/02/2007 13:48:35

I signed the petition and was proud to. Until the government actually puts a scheme on the table how can they say that we misunderstand them? The way to dispel a myth is to replace it with a transparent and inarguable truth. Where is it then Mr Ladyman?

What the government need to understand is that the public do not trust them on this issue and until they make their plans clear they will not be able to win over many of us.

I look forward to my e-mail from Tony to which I will respond in detail, well more detail than he'll give anyway.

7

taxed to the max,

durham 20/02/2007 13:53:59

Unbelievable arrogance from the government
1.6 million are against it but they are still not interested.
And there I was thinking we lived in a democratic country
So the point of having online petitions if they are going to totally ignore the results is?
It would go a long way to solving congestion if they would spend some money on our pathetic and overpriced public transport system and not waste it on the massive cost overruns which are inevitable with this stupid plan.

8

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

Newington 20/02/2007 13:57:09

I'm rather loooking forward to road-pricing actually.

The only other practical solution for congestion would be to get people off the roads by other means. A good start would be to remove those psychologically unfit to be in charge of a vehicle. Say drink-drivers, folks who've been caught speeding three times and anyone guilty of a road-rage incident.

9

Alexander,

edinburgh 20/02/2007 17:32:18

Have these 1.7m people no faith in Tony and his government to do the right thing?
I wonder why?

10

JG,

Fife 20/02/2007 17:43:13

How exactly is the government going to "win people over"? 1.6 million people say NO - and that's only those who have computers! How many more would have lodged their names if the site hadn't crashed? As with many other of their hare-brained schemes, there hasn't been much thought put in to this. Is there any politician out there who actually possesses a brain? IS THERE?????

11

BusOff,

20/02/2007 17:48:53

And may I ask where are us poor pensioners going to get all this extra money to travel along our wonderful Motorways!!!
If (if) cabinet ministers and other senior government officials were to get on their bikes and ride from meeting to meeting instead of sitting like statues in their Jags then I would have some time for them but at the present no way.
Margaret Beckett came out of a Euro Meeting on saving the Environment and steps into a huge Jaguar car what an absolute plonker!!
We pay a ROAD TAX - enuff said!!!!

12

petrol head,

Edinburgh 20/02/2007 17:52:28

A bit of a diversion I know, but...

I bet that Paul Smith could drive the reasonably priced car around the track faster than Stephen Ladyman could.

Ladyman's already had a go and been made to look stupid by Clarkson during the interview. Let's ask the Top Gear team if they would be willing to give some air time to Paul Smith at www.safespeed.org.uk

You can contact Clarkson's team at www.bbc.co.uk/topgear

13

Scaramouche,

20/02/2007 19:21:01

"Government 'will win over' critics on road pricing petition."

In other words, it wouldn't matter if 5 million signed the petition. They'll do what they want anyway!

14

Stewarty,

20/02/2007 19:39:53

#13
They will do what they want- they always do. I seem to recall that a few years back a poll revealed that 73% thought the railways should be renationalised. I also recall that the obese philanderer also thought the same prior to taking office in 1997.

If the rail system was taken away from those whose only interest is keeping their shareholders quiet, then maybe it could be run as a service, very much cheaper and thus entice people out of their cars and so reduce congestion.

15

Lapidate,

East Lothian 20/02/2007 20:25:47

I think this level of arrogance from ministers smacks of a government that has been in power for too long.

16

Rollo Tommasi,

20/02/2007 22:06:51

There are good arguments for not introducing road pricing - the cost of introduction; possible effects on rural communities; unlike road tax and petrol duty, it might not encourage people to use more fuel-efficient cars with lower CO2 emissions.

But I would rather place my faith in an elected government to sort through the difficult issues in a sensible way than rely on the often knee-jerk and ignorant responses of petitioners who have no grasp on the broader consequences of what they're asking for. If all petitions were successful, our governments would have to find ways to make our services twice as effective with barely any tax revenue.

I don't care how many people signed the petition - 1.5m is still only about 3% of the voting age population. Petitions are basically a moaners' charter - they may good at raising concerns but they're not exactly a useful way to find solutions.

17

JG,

Fife 20/02/2007 22:16:45

#16 Rollo
I signed the e-petition. I am not ignorant. The government have not "come up" with any real solution to the problem of road congestion. The only solutions they have for ANY problems are either "BAN IT" or "TAX IT" - not much thought involved in those answers, is there? Most of the people who signed this petition probably have proper jobs to do - trying to find intelligent answers to difficult problems is supposed to be what we are paying politicians (rather handsomely too!!) for. They're not doing very well!!!

18

Rollo Tommasi,

20/02/2007 22:41:21

JG

You make my point entirely. Just because those of us who pay politicians don't have time to find intelligent answers to difficult questions, it doesn't mean that we should expect politicians to be shackled to whatever short and simplistic ideas that we're able to come up with in a petition.

As I said, I'm no fan of road pricing. But I do know that "Do nothing, and certainly don't introduce road pricing" is not going to do anything to reduce road congestion.

19

JG,

Fife 20/02/2007 22:54:31

#18 Rollo
No, you entirely MISS the point. These politicians are paid to govern and to come up with solutions to difficult questions (this is certainly one such question) It is their full time job. Simply saying that they will introduce another tax on motorists without giving those motorists a workable alternative is no answer at all. It is THEY who have had the knee-jerk reaction - it seems as if this has been lying in the "too hard to answer" tray, someone has picked it up and come up with a one-line solution to something that is totally beyond their abilities.

20

Rollo Tommasi,

20/02/2007 23:22:01

Sorry JG, you miss the point! You're saying the problem is imposing a tax without giving motorists an alternative. But the petition doesn't say that. It says - no more tax - regardless of whether or not the government gives motorists an alternative.

So tell me - how is a demand to "Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy" possibly going to reduce road congestion?

21

JG,

Fife 20/02/2007 23:44:58

#20 Rollo
I disagree. The government has to have the alternative in place FIRST. A sensible person doesn't sell their house without having another to move in to. Why would you price motorists off the road without giving them the means to make their journey in another way? Public transport is abysmal. It is either unreliable, extortionate or frequently both. Or actually in some instances it's non-existant.

It is no solution at all to identify a problem and just say "right, we'll tax everybody" - I cannot see how you can vilify the people who protest these taxes when the people whose full time job it is have failed to offer anything else - unless your name is Latin for "Douglas Alexander"!

22

Rollo Tommasi,

21/02/2007 00:41:04

But JG - that is not what the petition you signed calls for. It says "scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy". No ifs, no buts. And certainly no suggestion that road pricing might be okay if there were decent alternatives in place first.

That highlights a big problem with petitions. You and other signatories may have a lot of useful suggestions to make about how congestion can be reduced. But nobody is ever going to know what those are if all you do is put your name to a 17 word petition.

Nothing you have said tells me how the words of the petition - to "scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy" - can possibly reduce road congestion.

23

JG,

Fife 21/02/2007 07:56:23

And nothing the government has done has actually shown what alternatives they are offering people. All they have said is that road congestion is a major problem (agreed) and that something has to be done (agreed). The one and only solution they have given is to tax the motorist - AGAIN!! Thus the wording of the petition. Remember, WE are members of the public. It's not our job to resolve these kind of problems (great if someone comes up with a workable idea, though!) IT IS THEIRS!!!

In addition, there is nothing to suggest that this taxing policy would dramatically reduce congestion anyway. If you have to travel to Glasgow from a small town with poor public transport to go to work every day, you'll still have to take the car - you will only pay more to do it.

24

Rollo Tommasi,

21/02/2007 08:34:14

In that case, why didn't you sign a petition saying something like "We want strong action taken to reduce congestion - road pricing and taxation alone is not enough"?

I keep coming back to the point (because I haven't received an answer) about what the petition says. It doesn't say congestion is a problem. It doesn't plead with Government to take more action to reduce congestion. All it says is "no road pricing".

25

JG,

Fife 21/02/2007 08:48:21

Because Rollo, the government aren't saying they are taking loads of steps to alleviate road congestion, taxing the motorist off the road being one of them, they are offering road pricing as the one and only, stand alone, no other answer solution to the problem. I would say that is why the man who penned the petition only mentioned that one thing in it. I'm sure if they were offering other things the author would have said he agreed with some things, not others (and obviously not the road pricing part of it) - BUT THEY DIDN'T!!!


 

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