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Swinney calls halt to policy of relocation, relocation, relocation

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Published Date: 29 January 2008
A CONTROVERSIAL policy to relocate public-sector workers to areas outside Edinburgh was effectively ditched yesterday by the new SNP administration.
The policy, championed by Jack McConnell when he was First Minister in the previous Labour-Lib Dem Executive, was designed to move public-sector jobs out of Scotland's capital to bring benefits to other parts of the country.

The idea proved hugely contentious, particularly in the case of Scottish Natural Heritage, which was moved from Edinburgh to Inverness in the face of stiff staff opposition.

John Swinney, the finance secretary, said yesterday he was changing the basis of the policy, and public-sector jobs would be relocated only if a series of new criteria were met.

Mr Swinney said relocation would be considered only for organisations which were being restructured or if building leases were coming up for renewal. And it would take place only if there were no compulsory redundancies and there were wider benefits, such as value for money or disposal of unsuitable assets.

Mr Swinney's announcement does not mean the policy has been scrapped officially, but makes it extremely unlikely that any public bodies will be moved if staff do not want to go.

He said: "Relocation policy to date has not achieved the benefits intended – wide job dispersal or assisting the areas most in economic need.

"A great deal of money, time and effort has been spent on moving organisations, incurring significant cost to business continuity and to staff."

The finance secretary's decision follows an investigation by Holyrood's audit committee last year which found the relocation policy was failing to deliver a true dispersal of jobs.

Under the previous Executive, more than 2,500 jobs left Edinburgh but the majority moved along the M8 to Glasgow, which critics claimed was hardly benefiting the rest of Scotland.

"Relocation is still an option, but it will only happen after a rigorous and transparent process that shows efficiencies for Scotland," Mr Swinney said.

Labour's local government spokesman, Andy Kerr, said: "

The relocation of public- services jobs throughout the country must be based on genuine factors like economic need, and never for political advantage."

The Lib Dems' enterprise spokesman, Tavish Scott, said he was disappointed but not surprised by the announcement.

He said: "The Liberal Democrats want to see all the towns and regions in Scotland flourish and thrive. That means making sure there is a mix of jobs open to every area.

"The SNP have effectively turned the engine off on the small units relocation policy. The government should get on with action that will get smaller towns in Scotland on to the government's map.

"Government is about choices, and this government has chosen to focus entirely on the Central Belt of Scotland at the expense of smaller towns."

An asset management review also looked at the management of the entire Scottish Government estate. It showed that the government currently occupied 709 buildings with an area of 2,416 hectares and a total capital value of £157.6 million.

The full article contains 510 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 29 January 2008 9:38 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Public bodies relocation
 
1

An Beal Bacht,

29/01/2008 00:13:08
Tavish son - ye had eight years and accomplished ... what?
2

James,

Dùn Dèagh 29/01/2008 01:27:33
I'd like to see some more Labour MSPs relocated along the M8 - roll on the next election.
3

,

29/01/2008 01:29:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Julian.,

edinburgh 29/01/2008 03:59:07
Come on guys, you're a bit slow today.

Surely this article demonstrates the extreme anti-SNP slant of The Scotsman.

I mean to have a quote from The Lib Dem opposition criticising The SNP is surely prejudice of the highest order.
5

,

29/01/2008 05:10:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

An Beal Bacht,

29/01/2008 05:17:54
7 - Troll

8 - Great news - we are unstoppable!
7

Julian.,

edinburgh 29/01/2008 05:26:25
9 - Grossly overoptimistic.
8

,

29/01/2008 05:28:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

An Beal Bacht,

29/01/2008 05:41:40
10- step up and be counted!
10

An Beal Bacht,

29/01/2008 05:45:19
Time for SNP Central Day shift to take over these threads - watch out for a troll with the moniker - "julian". A distraction - nothing more!
11

williamx,

canada 29/01/2008 05:53:12
Only new departments starting up with new staff should be located outside the Glasgow/Edinburgh belt. Moving old depts may result in a husband and wife who work for different depts being forced to resign so they do not have to travel to different locations.
12

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 29/01/2008 06:14:23
As a supporter of the dispersil of Government to all Scottish Communities, I have to admit that what Swinney is doing makes complete sense. As William has said, new departments should always be considered for Scotlands smaller communities. We do not want to follow the London System, so I would suggest that the Scottish Defense Force could be setup at the upper Clyde, once the English bases are gone, The Tax Department could be located to Fife or further North etc etc.

Subrosa and Doonhamer both delivering great news for Scotland. No wonder the Aviemore project needed a kick up the erky. London Controlled New Labour trying to undermine the Scottish Government again with their lies and deceit.
13

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 29/01/2008 06:55:08
Follow this link if you want to see the breakdown of voting in a biased Britnat Media.

Even though their poll indicates a massive kick in the erky for Gordon Stalin Browns London Controlled New Labour Party, the so called Independant tries to avoid the fact that the SNP would have a fantastic amount of MP'S in Westminster, possibly holding the balance of power.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-poll-lead-slips-despite-browns-woes-775181.html

Scotlands People will soon have their place in the World Community as a distinct sovereign Nation, with a seat in the United Nations and if the people decide the European Union and the Commonwealth of Nations. A glorious day indeed for all our people, wherever they originated from.

Try to imagine having a written Constitution Declaring the People as Sovereign, instead of a UK system that has no protection for the people, and the Westminster Parliament is Sovereign. No wonder they think they can get away with all their lies and stealing from our public purse.
14

Celtic Lion,

Roar 29/01/2008 07:32:24
A Better Way

Ditto your #15. But in #16 you say "if the people decide". No no no, that wont do at all. New Labour Think tells us this would lead to a very inefficient democracy which will be to the detriment of all. We must allow those who are getting on with the business of government tell the people what they want.

Remember, Gordon is good.
15

Graeme F,

29/01/2008 07:38:08
A victory for common sense. Even though I am no SNP supporter I salute them for taking this brave decision. The "relocation" policy was a total sham anyway, and there was no discernible dispersal of jobs across Scotland - the majority ended up simply moving along to the M8, even thoug Glasgow has the most civil service positions per head of population. Whole swathes of Scotland were being snubbed every time it happened, and the taxpayer was having to foot the bill to pay for what was essentially a sop to back bench Labour MSPs in the west of Scotland. And the human toll in terms of wrecked careers, shattered families and lost expertise was simply criminal.

Well done John Swinney for stopping the waste and exposing the hypocrisy of Labour's "jobs dispersal" programme.
16

eric,

Lothian 29/01/2008 08:00:47
Edinburgh cant arrange a game of bingo.Backward thinking place.
17

Edgar,

29/01/2008 08:14:18
It's a pity that this has stopped though the reasons given seems fair. I hope this will not mean that these public sector bodies will not be demanding or acquiring for themselves more money for wages, as Edinburgh is so expensive, house prices are so high etc, etc... There must be no slide into Edinbugh weighting and its further londonisation.
18

Edgar,

29/01/2008 08:15:54
one "not" too many, omit the second one.
19

carrottop,

Dumfries 29/01/2008 08:16:28
Where did they all relocate to ?
Nothing seems to have found its way to Dumfries as usual.
20

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 29/01/2008 09:08:23
Yet another mindless labour policy being ditched. Great!
21

Isonomia,

Lenzie 29/01/2008 09:14:53
I think the SNP have just sounded the death bell on Scottish independance for if you can't see the case of devolving power from Edinburgh to where the people live, how on earth can you pursuade London to devolve more powers to Edinburgh.

If you live in the job wilderness of Scotland, what does it matter whether an Englishman in London is doing your job or one in Edinburgh?
22

,

29/01/2008 09:29:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

AJ Fife,

29/01/2008 09:30:31
True to form, the SNP are displaying that they are the only effective government Scotland could possibly have.

Out with the old and in with the new, the mess Labour left is steadily being sorted by Alex and his team. The penny is beginning to drop with the public that the SNP have only Scotland as their priority - a state of affairs that never existed when Labour were in power!
24

Doh,

29/01/2008 09:52:58
#1
Well since you asked the LibDems promoted

1. PR for local government - which has changed the face of local politics
2. Free personal care for the elderly
3. Free eye and dental checks
4. No introduction of student tutition fees

All policies that would not have happened had we had a purely Labour administration.

They didnt happen in England.

So wake up and smell the haggis.
25

Alan B,

29/01/2008 10:03:34
Do not entirely agree with the snp here (although i do support them and independence). edinburgh housing the scottish power base with the parliament will benefit greatly over a period of time. i am concerned by the anti glasgow attitude of some of the edinburgh posters. edinburgh quite rightly houses our parliament and get the benefits that acrue to having power based there but then these poster complain anytime glasgow gets anything (consider bbc scotland based in glasgow).

With edinburgh housing scotlands power base one of the big issues we have to resolve is how to manage the wealth distribution through other parts of the country.

One solution would be to massively grow edinburgh, building hundreds of thousands of homes but that may spoil the city. the other alternatives are to have decent transport links to our cities so that people can comute. Ot alternatively some sort of dispersal.

The biggest problem round this that i have, is i think it is so important to first have fiscal autonomy for scotland. In many ways i would ask whether we really need to be spending money on these public sector organisations rahter than moving them.
26

whoaretheykidding,

edinburgh 29/01/2008 10:14:27
How much did it cost the tax payer to move the SNH to Inverness...a wopping sum of over £50 million, plus the relocation incentives which most staff who took the deal could leave after two years which some have done now and returned to Edinburgh.
Not only did that idiot Mr Finnie make the wrong decision(which was questionable in the first place) to relocate SNH it caused a lot more heartache, loss of good people and jobs, ruined relationships and caused marriage breakups. Shame on you Mr Finnie. I hope he can sleep straight at night for yet another bad decision was made by a LibDem.
27

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 29/01/2008 10:34:03
Doh,you are a bit off-topic here (n31)?
However,as someone temporarily living abroad I do wonder what the Liberals did to promote the list of achievements that you allude to.For example,did free eye checks and dental checks actually happen,and for whom? My impression from talking to family and friends in Scotland is that it is difficult to find dental treatment in many areas if you want NHS treatment.

In terms of tuition fees my understanding is that the payment was moved to the time that a student graduates and earns a certain amount of income.In no way is that free education as conceptualised in Finland.In that country education is free for all,including foreigners.

Getting back to the issue,relocation is acceptable if it achieves its stated goals of economic benefits for regions and is not punative to individuals. Scottish Heritage moving to Inverness was strange because Inverness was already going through a phase of rapid growth.This supports Mr Swinneys view that there is a need to lokk again at the relocation policy.
28

Ayrshire Scot.™,

29/01/2008 10:41:53
This is a disgrace: the "Edinburgh Effect" has always mirrored the dominance of London down here! My home town of Billericay has become as big a backwater as Ayr in many ways. Why is Prestwick Airport always referred to as being in Glasgow, come to that? The SNP are anti Ayrshire!
29

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 29/01/2008 10:44:43
Andy Kerr: "The relocation of public- services jobs throughout the country must be based on genuine factors like economic need, and never for political advantage."

Err - I thought that was exactly what the previous administration was doing with its crude attempts to employ its way into power... Its also not a great mental leap into questioning why Scotland is so dependent on public sector (or publicly funded - for outsourced operations) jobs. Something like over 40% of economy! A great legacy of uncontrolled Labour spending from the past 50 years....


30

whoaretheykidding,

29/01/2008 10:49:58
All very well Dave from Barra but it did cost a lot of tax payers money to relocate people when the SNH worked effectively and efficently in Edinburgh for many years. Also you say 'bulk of the SNH's work is above the Highland line' is not quite correct as snh covers work across much of Scotland and on many things.
'A better quality of life' is for one to make that choice and where they want to live and work and not be told to move 200 miles away.
31

Ayrshire Scot™,

29/01/2008 10:52:14
#37: Morning, fakey! Edinburgh is our capital city and therefore deserves the prestige of having important government position’s located there. I know some unionist’s mischievously campaign for Glasgow to take on the mantle of the capital, but they misunderstand what we want for our once proud nation. Edinburgh is and always has been the capital and anyway, the Edinburgh snobs may (just) be more responsive to our message than the Glasgow proletariat, although it’s a close run thing! Just watch us snatch Edinburgh south west from under English collaborator Darling’s nose at the next general election and wonder then why we’ve stopped the haemorhage of jobs from Edinburgh.
32

Doh,

29/01/2008 10:59:24
#36 Suomi

As was only trying to answer the short crisp question posed by respondent number #1, so no I dont regard that as off topic.

As for your concerns about the availability of free eye care (pretty much universal), free dental checks and free personal care (patchy). Of course delivery can always be better, but not always within the strict control of the government (you might realise that after a few more years of SNP administration).

However my assertion in reply to poster #1 is that Tavish Scott actually did make a difference to the last Lab/LibDem policy.

My argument being that these polices were not Labour manifesto commitments and that we have all witnessed the fact that Labour has not introduced these policies in England.

Back to the issue, I notie you accept that Inverness is undergoing a period of rapid growth despite the last 8 years of a Lab/LibDem administration.

BTW if are you saying Finland does not charge foreign students for their education? If so I suspect that very few foreign students attend Finnish Universities.
What do you think would happend if 1 million students applied for places at Finnish Universities?
Would there be a funding problem?
33

 Ayrshire Scot™,

29/01/2008 11:45:58
40. another fakey. "collaborator" - rather ugly and pejorative use of language don't you think?
34

Arrow,

edinburgh 29/01/2008 11:54:22
#34
if you are undertaking a development (residential for exapmle) and there are badgers in and around or within the square indicated on the SNH data base you have to get one of their "experts" in to assess the situation. they are based in Inverness and deal with all of Scotland. there are far more houses being built south of inverness hence the stupidity of moving the staff up there in the first instance. and from personal experience i can confirm that a significant number of families did not relocate because of kids at critical points in their education. others stayed in Inverness (a lovely city)but some did not settle being away from other family members. subsidiary offices work for SEPA and the other quangos but a substantial maount of money was mis-spent on the SNH exercise.
35

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 29/01/2008 11:59:21
Yes Doh,there are lots of foreign students recieving free education in Finland.The Finnish government has a policy of increasing those numbers.I know that you are a Liberal and that I am a member of the SNP but my points were not really party political.I was asking whether

1) Promoting something is not the same as achieving something?

2) Whether paying a tax at the end of education was the same as free education?

Of course Finland might reach a phase when their policy of free education for all,including foreigners needs to be reviewed but at the moment that is the situation.My point has nothing to do with cost,it was that the Finns have a different perception of what is meant by free education,and it differes from what currently exists in Scotland.

Regarding Inverness,my point was not party political either.I think the town grew because a lot of people thought that it was a nice area to live in.The growing population brought challenges and benifits.My point was that Inverness was not necessarily in most need of the redeployment from the central belt at that time.It was an area of low unemployment,a house building boom,and an increasing traffic problem.Other areas,even in Highland Region,might have benefitted more.Therefore,I think it is very logical that elected politicians look at the redeployment policy again.
36

druidh,

edinburgh 29/01/2008 12:01:55
Tavish Scott -

"The Liberal Democrats want to see all the towns and regions in Scotland flourish and thrive. That means making sure there is a mix of jobs open to every area.

"The SNP have effectively turned the engine off on the small units relocation policy. The government should get on with action that will get smaller towns in Scotland on to the government's map.

"Government is about choices, and this government has chosen to focus entirely on the Central Belt of Scotland at the expense of smaller towns."



OK Tavish - that's why we're gonna spend £500M on trams in Edinburgh and NOT dual the A9??
37

Ayrshire Scot™,

29/01/2008 12:07:31
#42 Fakey: What about the cries of “Nazi” and “fascist” that we have to endure on an almost daily basis, unionist troll seeker! I’m just giving as good as I get – I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s the only way on here…...
38

Doh,

29/01/2008 12:15:21
#44 Suomi.

You are going to have to do better than "lots" to convince me that the largesse of the Finnish government towards foreign students is based on the fact that there are in fact very few of them

1) Promoting and acheiving are two different things, I addressed that issue with my first reply which I thought was fairly honest assessment - one beign universal provision the other being patchy.

2) What you are refering to is the compromise between Labour and the LibDems, not LibDem policy had they had a majority in the last parliament.

May I remind you that we do have PR for local government in Scotland - much to the benefit of the SNP and that was largely due to influence of LibDems in government.

So again in response to #1 the LibDems, Tavish Scott, did make a difference to the last 8 years.
You might not like that fact and choose to ignore it but it is still true.

For what it is worth I absolve you of making trite party political points - there is no shortage of posters that will sink to that challenge.
39

blarney expat observer,

29/01/2008 12:20:38
“Ayrshire Scots” at #42 & #45: I’ve pasted both your alleged monikers into a word document and have to report that #42 Has a hard space before his moniker whereas #45 does not appear to have any hard space whatsoever. I therefore conclude that #42 is the fakey, but I think I’d rather leave you two to fight it out amongst yourselves……..a cold Heineken from my well stocked fridge and a stroll into Mahon with my wife seem strangely more enticing at this very moment somehow…….

Chat to you all later.....
40

blarney expat observer,

29/01/2008 12:25:23
I meant Ayrshire Scot #46 rather than #45, who of course is an entirely different poster, in my last post. Oh good grief, I'm only adding to the confusion.....I'm off. My kind regards to you both, Ayrshire Scots nos 42 & 46!
41

Jimmy the Pie,

29/01/2008 12:33:17
Was this not one of Wee Joke's flagship policies???
Has our Dear Leader, Comrade Broon given his approval???
42

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 29/01/2008 12:52:05
Of courseDoh,nothing that I wrote had anything to do with party political matters.

Having lived in Inverness for years,I knew several Liberals,including my son-in laws late father.I understood that several of their policies were similar to the SNP and we got along just fine.Perhaps politics is less tribal/more civilised in Highland region.In Highland region people are always ready to give credit to deserving politicians across all of the political spectrum.


My questios were more philosophical, examined the meaning of words, and factored in a broader international perspective into the debate around what we mean by free education.They had nothing to do with Tavish Scott,what he had achieved,or not achieved.I never gave that any consideration.

On the question of foreign student numbers in Finland,take my word for it,there are a lot and the Finnish government aims to increase those numbers.My experience of teaching on several degree programmes in Finland tells me that there a lot around.The Salo Campus of Turku University of Applied Sciences is like United Nations and you can hear many languages spoken.My finnish wife who is an international coordinator is constantly active in recruiting students from Europe and developing countries.Examples include,Ireland,France,Italy,Czech Republic,Norway,Estonia,Latvia,Swaziland,Keyna,Nigeria,Zambia,Somalia,Philipines,China,to name a few.I could find the statistics for you but,but why should I bother,since those numbers have no relevance to my central theme,which is that free education is a very different beast across different countries.

I don't have the endless hours that some people have to blog on this site.Also,you don't blog for just one person.You make some observations and all readers can form their own conclusion.
43

gandana,

Edinburgh 29/01/2008 13:38:30
I see Tain's been relocated
44

Miss H,

29/01/2008 13:46:16
2 AM2 - again you take the prize for most inconsistent critic! No the relocation of sportscotland will go ahead because the opposition parties got together and ambushed the SNP's sports policy - which you applauded.

As for the relocation policy itself, it was always a nonsense and how the unions ever agreed to it I do not know. In the main it seems that relocations have been from Edinburgh to Glasgow which simply means that people have to commute, adding 3 hours onto their working day and increasing congestion. Another brilliant idea brought to you by the Lab/Lib brainbozes....

It is a different matter deciding where to locate new government facilities which will of course be required with independence. They should be distributed about the country instead of concentrated in Edinburgh - but we have to become independent first! Simply shifting existing members of staff about like pawns in a game of chess is not acceptable.
45

Miss H,

29/01/2008 13:50:34
27 You don't get it. Relocation is not about creating new jobs - it is about shifting existing ones.
46

Number 6,

Germany 29/01/2008 14:28:20
Just how many examples of superior goverment performance will the SNP have to demonstrate before the NO NO NEVER Brigade admit they are light years ahead of Labour in terms of ability to run a country, especially taking in to account how terrified the scottish wing were to make decisions without Westminster approval. Who, here and now, would vote for labour's scottish wing ahead of the SNP ?.
47

Richard Lionheart,

29/01/2008 14:48:36
Congratulations to John Swinney. The policy introduced by the previous Labour/LibDem to move jobs around the country was on the whole a total waste of Public Funds. The policy was designed to hide the failure of their economic policy to keep and attract private sector business to begin and grow in Scotland.

The challenge for the current Scottish Government is to realign the ratio between public sector and private sector employment in Scotland.

It is difficult to see how this can be achieved when we are a “distant” out post, compared with South East England, to our major market in Europe, especially when Environmentalism insists that our economic growth must reduce to zero or minus figures in the years ahead, in order to fight, alleged “human induced” global warming. Similarly when we constantly face demands to cut all modes of mechanised travel and goods haulage miles, it is difficult to see private sector business being attracted to Scotland to produce much needed non governmental related jobs.
48

louisescot,

29/01/2008 14:59:13
FROM THE ELECTORAL COMMISION.

Thanks for your e-mail. I will try to address your points in turn.

We are currently unable to provide any information on the progress of the Wendy Alexander case as it is an ongoing enquiry. Therefore I cannot also give information in relation to your fourth and fifth point below.

I believe that the donor you are referring to is Lord Elder, as this has been reported in the press. Lord Elder is not a member of the Electoral Commission. However, Lord Elder is a member of the Electoral Commission's Parliamentary Advisory Group which is an advisory group of senior politicians whose expertise can help in our consideration of the issues within our remit.The group aims to meet three times a year and is comprised of one MP and one peer from the Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat parties, as well as one MP from the Scottish National Party and one from Plaid Cymru. The advisory Commission consults this group on a range of policy issues, but the group would not be consulted, nor would access to any information, concerning specific complaints or investigations.

The reason that some cases take longer than others to conclude is that each case is different. The Electoral Commission's job is to give thorough consideration to cases where it appears the rules on party and election finance may not have been followed, and to decide on what action to take in the light of the facts and circumstances of each individual case. The Commission will take as long as is necessary to carry out its work in order to reach a proper decision in each case.

It is up to the police to comment on their own processes.

Best wishes
Sarah Mackie

49

The Master,

29/01/2008 15:23:52
I do by and large agree with Swinney’s stance on this issue: he has quietly introduced sensible criteria which will put an end to a policy which has become completely discredited following its demolition by the audit committee. May I add that Swinney is slowly emerging as the “acceptable face” of Nationalism (if there is such a thing!) He has done well in effectively fudging the fiasco of the previous administration’s relocation policy out of all existence and it is to be hoped that a future Swinney leadership will quietly perform a similar hatchet job on the much ridiculed independence policy of his own party. Swinney has already shown that he is about the only member of the SNP who is not so fanatical that he can’t see past the uncompromising all or nothing independence stance and advocate instead some form of the altogether more palatable policy know as “devolution max”.
50

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 29/01/2008 15:27:15
There must be a Scottish Sir Humphrey pulling the strings on "Hacker" Swinney, the civil service and quango colleagues will not be dictated to by here to-day, gone to-morrow, government ministers.
51

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

29/01/2008 15:44:30
The policy of relocation was a policy in name only. The reality was that jobs in Edinburgh were often moved to another location in the Central Belt. In this age of telecommunications there is absolutely no need to have civil servants as centralised as they are. I still belive that ther is some scope for relocation but that it must be justifiable eg savings are made and so on.

I have to say that Swinney has got this one correct.
52

LinBP,

Linlithgow 29/01/2008 16:04:43
59 What is "devolution max"? Surely devolution is devolution and independence is independence. Under devolution, those areas that are devolved can vary either way, as agreed by the UK Government. But it is still just devolution. If max is short for maximum, the surely devolution max is independence.
53

Arrow,

edinburgh 29/01/2008 16:27:07
just a small point but Edinburgh and Glasgow are about 45minutes/1 hour apart. they are not "far off countries of which we know little". people who would think nothing of going to a football match at Hampden or a rugby match at Murrayfield or followng thier own teams to either city appear to get all upset about jobs that most of those bumping their gums could not do anyway.
54

The Master,

29/01/2008 16:31:01
#62 LinBP: you’ve heard of the well known fizzy drink, haven’t you? Seriously, answer me this: if devolution max is independence, then why does this not extend to quitting the EU if it extends to quitting the UK? Why is being part of the EU seen as being beneficial to Nats whereas being part of the UK isn’t? Non Nats just can’t get their heads around this, so I’ll be interested to hear your thoughts.
55

Julian.,

edinburgh 29/01/2008 16:50:15
#11 a proud doomhammer

Maybe you could remind me. Who was it that said and had the slogan "free by '93"?

And were the talking about 1993 or some other century?

Reminds me of that bird.
56

Ayrshire Scot.™,

29/01/2008 16:53:16
It’s time for Alex Salmond to relocate himself back to London! It’s where he belongs - should never have been moved back up here in the first place.
57

BMeister,

29/01/2008 17:03:35
66 Hey Fishy Socks faker, not evolved the intelligence to think up your own moniker yet then?
58

Ayrshire Scot™,

29/01/2008 17:15:04
#66 Fakey: that’s it! I’ve had enough! I’m going to abandon my Ayrshire Scot moniker (something I ought to have done after it was deleted a few months ago, rather than soldier on with a hard space before my name!) Anyone got any suggestions as to what I might call myself? I’m thinking of “Tam O’Shanter” for now, but he did like a drink and people might not take me entirely seriously. Anyone got any better ideas?
59

Gina Gibson,

Wales 29/01/2008 17:15:26
#66 Isn't it about time you changed your name from "Ayrshire Scot" to "Ayrshire talkin through."
...as in "Is that yer Ayrshire talking through?"
60

The Master,

29/01/2008 17:25:15
#68 Ayrshire Scot: Asaram has a nice culty feel to it which someone like you might appreciate. I considered it myself when my old "Antifascist" moniker got deleted, but it just wasn't quite me!
61

BMeister,

29/01/2008 17:25:39
63 Arrow
'Edinburgh and Glasgow are about 45minutes/1 hour apart'

The rain stations are 50 minutes apart but very few people live and work at the train station. So the commute would not be 50 minutes but more likely 1.5 hours +. Many do this commute but many will not surprisingly not want to, particularly those for whom the £200 per month bill is too much.

But surely that's not the main point. the policy was supposed to spread the jobs around the country. It failed, and in the situation where the move was not to Glasgow, was not beneficial for many. The move to look at it for new jobs would seem to me to be a much better approach.
62

Sideshow Bob,

29/01/2008 17:32:05
#68 Ayrshire: it has to be “Fruit and Nat Boy”!
63

Ayrshire Scot™,

29/01/2008 17:52:06
Alright! Alright! I left myself open to it there, didn’t I master! I need more time to think about this, you’ll all find out my new monker when you read my first eagerly awaited post of Wednesday.
64

Ayrshire Scot™,

29/01/2008 18:06:31
#76 Methalions: I think that’s no 66 somehow, or are you becoming wandered in your old age?
65

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 29/01/2008 18:07:41
What ho chaps, I wondered where you were all hiding. Since I've seen Montague Burton, Chuck Vindaloo, Ti*s McGhee, AMno2tiredofmoaning, and various others end up in the wastebasket. I've decide my next moniker wil be the entirely innocuous 'Peter File'...
66

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 29/01/2008 18:14:05
#91 and a hoos poos* to you too Meths.

*whatthefuckdoeshoospoosmean? I must have been off school that week...

Is it something along the lines of a scatalogical enquiry?
67

BMeister,

29/01/2008 18:14:06
AS

Hot Ayr, Ayr Heid, Nat King Droll,
68

BMeister,

29/01/2008 18:15:47
Actually AM2 could be Stat King Troll
69

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 29/01/2008 18:18:34
#84 applauds! BMan, youdaman.
70

Maverick the Cat 2,

29/01/2008 18:26:12
Hoos poos to you, Meths! Aren't you dead yet?
71

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 29/01/2008 18:26:57
#87

None the wiser.

I'm just not hep to thon jive, ken?

Discovered last night that Stat King Troll doesn't like being called 'timid'...


72

Maverick the Cat 2,

29/01/2008 18:38:49
#90 Meths: maybe it was Mystic Meg! Us cats have a sixth sense you know, so watch it while you lie on your sun lounger.
73

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 18:41:13
Who's puss, when rattling a tin of minced sphincters and fishmeal with a spoon...Eh Maverick...?
74

Maverick the Cat 2,

29/01/2008 18:46:23
#95 Conan: any more of that and I’ll come and quietly mark my territory in your library!
75

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 18:48:04
Hmm(If Meths' away guzzling cheap rioja...I might get the Hunner..)
76

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 18:49:28
96
Stop.
You're spooking me...
77

Maverick the Cat 2,

29/01/2008 18:52:34
#98 Conan: my daddy’s a big name footballer, he reads the Independent and he’s not a tory! What more do I need from life?
78

Maverick the Cat 2,

29/01/2008 18:52:43
100
79

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 18:56:17
100
(curses)
More of a Spartan lifestyle.

And beer.
80

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 19:14:55
102
Wow ppink.
Bad day at work?
Meths' solution works for me.

Though it tastes horrible.
81

LinBP,

Linlithgow 29/01/2008 20:00:45
64 The Master

You haven't answered my question. In posting 59, you mentioned "devolution max". I don't know what this means. If devolution max means devolving everything, then that to me sounds like independence. If this is not what devolution max means, then what does it mean? How can people support a policy with no definition? At least I know what independence means.
82

BMeister,

29/01/2008 20:18:01
85 Ta
86 Nice, or Yawn Crackers


although Suet Pudding might be closer
83

BMeister,

29/01/2008 20:21:10
Gone Crackers
84

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 20:48:41
Hoos Poos Oscar, Meths, COnan. Beer Mist

they are all fakies above, inlcuding the cat (Maverick the Cat 1 was a fakie - that old guy that was stalking Spook)
85

subrosa,

29/01/2008 20:50:45
Read this one from the Press and Journal:
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=149971&command=displayContent&sourceNode=149970&contentPK=19702407&folderPk=85766&pNodeId=206467

Sorry can't do tiny links - forgot Meth's instructions :(
86

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 20:58:17
110
Pity Nova, thought the wee ba'kicker was back.

87

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 20:59:33
112 Conan

he's doing exams at mo, says he'll be back in a couple of weeks...if he doesn't get signed by Man U or Celtic
88

Karin M,

29/01/2008 21:12:07
hello peeps.
89

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 21:15:28
113
How long is it taking you to post?
Between two or three mins each post for me.
I go to google and it's almost instant, so it's not my PC.
90

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 21:16:58
Evening Karin.
91

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 29/01/2008 21:17:54
#111 Subrosa

www.tinyurl.com
92

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 21:18:04
Heh.Quickest post yet.FN typical.
93

Karin M,

29/01/2008 21:22:22
hello conan. hello meths hello ayrshire. hello unionists doughballs.
94

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 21:25:05
121 You survived your F*** outburst yesterday then?
95

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 21:25:41
119 Yes. Meths is a loose cannon.....sigh...
96

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 21:30:43
127 Just your propensity to post the "how to fake" guides lol.

Perhaps if fakies persist then everyone may get faked... Poor old Wini...
97

Karin M,

29/01/2008 21:30:50
125 think you were a bit hard there on fakie meths hes a fuckwit and cannae help it.
98

Karin M,

29/01/2008 21:31:22
well that was interesting wouldnt let me put hardd on minus one d but fuckwit is fine.
99

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 21:32:01
127 Meths, 75 and the rest are indeed fakies
100

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 21:32:42
132 LOL. Yes, I tried to write someo one was being hard -on someone, as in unfair, and I couldn't. Gave me a massive erection
101

Karin M,

29/01/2008 21:33:01
i dont care if fakey fakes me. In fact i quite like the fact that its blatantly obvious its not me. he cannae dae me.
102

Karin M,

29/01/2008 21:34:01
I m bored why is kimba never around when you want a laugh.
103

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 21:37:31
137. I agree. Fakies just mess up discussion. But clearly the fakers feel deeply, bitterly wronged and are reaping some kind of pathetic revengey lol
104

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 21:39:40
Test: Kontneuker
105

Karin M,

29/01/2008 21:44:43
no i like meat and im confused now.
106

Karin M,

29/01/2008 21:45:54
148 night meths.
107

Karin M,

29/01/2008 21:46:54
i may get a new monkier myself.
108

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 21:53:21
151
LOL I'm sure you will get plenty of volunteers, Karin.

Where is Dunnie by the way?
109

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:05:01
AM2 was on my blogspot i think and then deleted his comment

http://haveyouspottedam2.blogspot.com/
110

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:05:53
wish i had put a tenner on wendy not to be in position at the time of the next election do you think i could still do it now or has betting closed.
111

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 29/01/2008 22:09:50
monkier, sounds like a chimpanzee trainer.

Oh I'm severely miffed at this one.

http://tinyurl.com/3xl3qm
112

Roberta Burns,

29/01/2008 22:12:27
Let's hope that's the asylum closed for the night.

Now, where were we......
113

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:15:34
a wee joke for yous.


A husband wrote the following letter for his wife and left it on the dining room table:

To My Dear Wife,

You will surely understand that I have certain needs that you, being 54
years old, can no longer satisfy. I am very happy with you and I value
you as a good wife. Therefore, after reading this letter, I hope you will
not wrongly interpret the fact that I will be spending the
evening with my 18-year-old secretary at the Comfort Inn Hotel.
Please don't be upset. I shall be back home before midnight.

***************
When the man came home late that night he found the following letter on
the dining room table:

To My Dear Husband,

I received your letter and thank you for your honesty about my being 54
years old. I would like to take this opportunity to remind you that you
are also 54 years old. As you know, I am a math s teacher at our local
college. I would like to inform you that while you read this, I will be
at the Ritz Carlton with Michael, one of my students, who is also the
assistant tennis coach. He is young, virile, and like your secretary,
is also 18 years old.

As a successful businessman with an excellent knowledge of maths , you
will understand that we are in the same situation, although with one small
difference; 18 goes into 54 a lot more times than 54 goes into 18.
Therefore I will not be home until sometime tomorrow

114

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:16:36
156 is that your actual real name or did where you reading robert burns one day.
115

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 22:26:00
156
Are you inferring reduced mental capacities for some of the poor benighted posters on these threads?
The annoyance of ayrshires can't help it; or kimba, but some of the unionists are quite intelligent...
116

Roberta Burns,

29/01/2008 22:26:11
He's my dad. Has he been on here?
117

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:31:17
aww there was me thinking that i was going to get a burns quote. You really shouldnt be nasty to the unionists you know they dont like it. Conan is right some of them are quite intelligent. well im sure there has to be an exception to every rule eh.
118

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:32:23
160 so how long have you been supporting the snp then roberta. since you have been able to vote is it.
119

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:33:05
conan have you got my "hoos poos"
120

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:35:47
163 thats what i was thinking col i thought it was similar to the "gobble of unionists"
121

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:36:32
unionists on these threads are getting a bit thin on the ground these days arent they. spoilsports.
122

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 22:38:39
163
Evolution in action Col;-)
164
No. Meths or Ayrshire has mine, pass along.
123

,

29/01/2008 22:39:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
124

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:40:16
aww where did roberta go. i wanted to play.
125

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:42:26
another boring troll fake. tell me fakey do you fake people because you dont feel confident endough to put forth your own veiw. Are you afraid that you are not clever or witty enough to comment and so resort to faking people who are.

That will be twenty quid for the analysis if you want to lie on my couch its extra.
126

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:51:18
*Please enter your comment*


fakey i have now completed my analysis and have got to the root of your problem.

see that wee box that says comment under the bit that says name. In the bit that says name your supposed to put your name and the bit that says comment is where you put your comment. I feel that this problem relates to your difficult childhood where you obviously are stuck in the anal fixation stage. In short your an arsehole.
127

,

29/01/2008 22:53:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
128

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:53:50
playtime mwa ha ha. got ya.
129

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:54:15
your angry now arent you.
130

,

29/01/2008 22:54:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
131

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:54:49
get this.

I just made you angry on purpose. Im controlling what you do. how funny is that.
132

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 22:55:07
171
LOL
133

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:55:50
wow youve mastered cutting and pasting well done. arent you proud of yourself.
134

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:56:18
now would you like to discuss the fact that you place no value on your own identity.
135

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:56:47
that you in fact think other posters are better than you and thats why you fake them.
136

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:58:25
You know what you really should learn to value your own opinion fakey you are sometimes right.

especially about the bit about them being better than you.
137

Karin M,

29/01/2008 22:58:47
now do you still want to play some more?
138

Ayrshire Scot™­ ,

AM's Dungeon 29/01/2008 22:59:08
#171 Karin M

I couldn't agree more.

He has Münchhausen's Narcissism by proxy, if you ask me.
139

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:00:18
Im on the cyber nat nightshift at the moment so have all night really to ridicule and humiliate you.
140

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 23:01:09
175
WTF?
Has your head broken?
Like your post no point to it.
141

Ayrshire Scot™­ ,

29/01/2008 23:02:45
#184 Karin M,

I'm not him!

I'm his fakie!
142

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:04:50
183 ah interation from the entity known as fakey.

note*

seeks to ingratiate himself with doctor karin in order to justify existance. poor attempt at improving self esteem. seeks to cling to doctor karin and imitates doctor karins speech as perceives that doctor karin is more intelligent and has greater self esteem.

hmmm a most difficutlt case.

incurable.

recommmend euthanasia.
143

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:07:13
hey fakey your buttons are showing ha ha ha ha.
144

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:07:39
hmm which one shall i push next......
145

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:13:28
ah we have minor improvement. most astounding. fakie has ditched the fake name as realises that fakey AS moniker does not improve self esteem. However further improvement still required before diagnosis and care plan of euthanasia will be withdrawn. recommend reading of snp literature. to be taken twice a day.
146

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:14:49
190 nah seriously fakey why do you do it. whats the point. dont you want to have a conversation as yourself.
147

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:15:53
192 if i had any idea who you are i would probably agree.
148

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 23:17:04
The annoyance of ayrshires, should be dealt with an admeasurement of alliterative amercement.
(I can go on all night)

149

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:19:02
go on go on go go on. man im bored.


fakey come join the snp
150

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:19:19
you know what they say if you cant beat them join them.
151

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:23:26
aww what are we going to do when wendy quits that woman has given me so many laughs.
152

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:23:52
200
153

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:24:02
yay me.
154

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:24:22
right off for a wander to the herald etc.
155

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 23:24:28
195 Conan

Ayrshire must really have pissed them off. The bar steward
156

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 23:30:15
204. Three i think (.) (space) and no spaces (the real one has a space before Ayrshire)
157

,

29/01/2008 23:35:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
158

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:36:25
nothing doing at the herald either justg a small discussion re wendy alexander and george galloway and ungandan methods. whatever that is. didnt like to ask as i was scared of what the answer was going to be. and the whole george galloway cat thing.

does anyone ever wonder if journalists in scotland are now scared they are ging to get a doing for telling porkies for labour for so long.
159

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:37:21
not that i would advocate violence agaisnt journalists thats bad bad bad. but what do journalists think about how people percieve them now.
160

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:37:44
i defo think that the press is not viewed in a good light since the snp won.
161

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:39:18
206 ah relapse sad. Fakey what happened we were making progress i dont know i leave you for 5 minutes and your anal retentiveness comes back. tsk tsk. naughty fakey;.
162

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 23:40:39
203
This site gets worse.
Two crashes in a row.
Takes minutes to post.
But as ppink said very addictive.
Any unionists about?
Bar Stewards...are very useful.
163

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:41:04
fakey why dont you have any confindence? Do you not understand how confidence works or its relationship with assertiveness.
164

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 23:43:49
208
The issued shiny brass collar protects them from all known comment.
Unless you are an editor.
165

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 23:44:27
213 Col

The real Ayrshire has always had a space before the Ayrshire as a result of AM2 induced moderation
166

,

29/01/2008 23:46:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
167

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 23:48:08
213. Yes, when all monikers were cleared at the change over - Ayrshire Scot with no spaces was available....
168

,

29/01/2008 23:54:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
169

Dawn of the dead,

29/01/2008 23:55:01
Glasgow is a toilet of a city. Those thick, scroungin smeg-heads demand jobs making boon doggles for the government.

Thank jolly good gosh for the tartan tories telling those filthy beggers to eat cake.
170

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:56:56
204 col i require an upgrade for my detector technology please inform by hoos poos. may have to go through hoos poos headquarters. am currently on cybernat duty in outer unionist land. have infiltrated labour headquarters. he he he.

the word is that w alexander is well miffed at andy kerr and the whole daily retard debacle.
171

Conan the Librarian™,

29/01/2008 23:57:19
There does seem to be a lack of Unionists tonight.
(Apart from axe-grinding fakies)
Is there a "Hunt" Ball on tonight?
172

Karin M,

29/01/2008 23:59:09
222 a another onionist. dawn are you within the inner cirlce. i am. I have infiltrated the labour party and theyre so dumb they dont know im telling the snp headquarters everything.
173

NovaScotia™,

29/01/2008 23:59:16
224 Do Unionists have balls?
174

,

29/01/2008 23:59:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
175

,

30/01/2008 00:00:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
176

Karin M,

30/01/2008 00:00:33
balls and unionists i think you meant gall conan. they have some of that the balls sadly are lacking.
177

Karin M,

30/01/2008 00:02:23
228 why fakie i prefer gaelic. Its not that what im saying is not english fakie its that you dont understand me due to your subhuman intelligence.
178

Karin M,

30/01/2008 00:04:19
228 and its for fucksake. youll note i dont care if i get banned. havent you wondered why that is fakie? havent you noticed others dont care if they get banned either.
179

Karin M,

30/01/2008 00:07:16
are you wondering what is about to happen that we dont care if we get banned. thats because this paper is about to go down the tube along with the herald due to their biased reporting. the offline campaign to shut them down is about to start.
180

Karin M,

30/01/2008 00:08:09
they got warned and they wouldnt listen. journos your wave bye bye to your jobs.
181

Conan the Librarian™,

30/01/2008 00:08:53
227
Oh the cutting edge of wit.
229
Think rhyming slang for hunt.Like 227
182

,

30/01/2008 00:09:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
183

Karin M,

30/01/2008 00:13:14
235 bing and another button pushed. wow i bet it really pisses you off that i made you mad doesnt it. you arent in control of your emotions.

I AM. ha ha ha.
184

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 30/01/2008 00:14:01
Total confusion reigns.

Heh heh!

http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.2003659.0.0.php
185

Karin M,

30/01/2008 00:16:42
how good is that i pissed the fakey off. when his plan was to pisss other people off. So you think im retarded

mmmmm and. do i care


mmmmmmmmm no.

retarded is a word its not who i am.

however you actually took on board what i said and bleived it. funny funny funny.

186

,

30/01/2008 00:16:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
187

Karin M,

30/01/2008 00:17:34
right now your sitting there fuming and thinking how can i get back at her. answer you cant.

funnier.
188

Karin M,

30/01/2008 00:21:48
proably you have now thought i know i will fake her. go right ahead because the thing is i dont actually care what you do. Im just having a laugh pushing your buttons.
189

Karin M,

30/01/2008 00:24:03
by the way

bithidh mi aig and taigh amarieach. will you?
190

Conan the Librarian™,

30/01/2008 00:29:05
239
Hab SoSlI' Quch

Again.
191

Karin M,

30/01/2008 00:37:46
cheers col. aww is fakey gone i was having fun there.
192

Conan the Librarian™,

30/01/2008 00:49:59
246
Jeez...What if we tried Welsh?
193

Eve,

Scotland 30/01/2008 21:16:56
#2 AM2: The problem with some goverment bodie staff is ye get a lot of people who are rubbish at their job!!! (This is through personal experence.

Sport Scotland will be no abseion to this and could be one of the agency that actaul have people who are on tea breaks every hour or two, which is often the case with job roles that are have a high comminty elemented !!!

Think you'll find the folk who are truely dedicated, in that area of things will move!!! The best comminty workers move around every so often.

 

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