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Independent Scotland 'would shock US'



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Published Date: 02 October 2008
Speaking to The Scotsman ahead of a speech in Edinburgh last night, Sir Christopher said that, while American politicians were well aware of the SNP administration in Edinburgh, hardly any would have even considered the prospect of a break-up of the UK.
Another former ambassador to the US, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, warned last week that independence could spark the withdrawal of investment from Scotland by US businesses. But Sir Christopher said this might not happen because American business leaders were not sentimental and would invest if they saw opportunities, regardless of the political situation on the ground.

Lord Kerr said: "Although people in the United States know there is a very strong SNP and Alex Salmond is First Minister, I suspect if you walked the corridors of power in Washington, not many people expect (independence] actually to happen.

"If it were to happen, people would be stunned."

But he added: "Business investment is incredibly hard-headed; there is no sentiment to it. People would look at Scotland and ask – is it a good prospect or a bad prospect?

"It maybe means that they might stop investing, but not necessarily so."





The full article contains 197 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 01 October 2008 11:12 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

02/10/2008 00:32:09
Who cares what the yanks think....they are a spent force.
2

Guga II,

Rockall 02/10/2008 00:34:06
#1.

Exactly, who is this mysterious "Sir Christopher"? Is he another of the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party's cheer leaders, or what? Or does he just like monkeys with red rosettes?
3

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 02/10/2008 00:36:56
Brilliant, Hamish has been so excited when trying to get this into print that he forgot the blokes name.

What does that say about the standard of news coverage at the Scotsman nowadays?
4

,

02/10/2008 00:37:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

ThomasP,

02/10/2008 00:45:53
And does anyone in the US have anything at all to say about Scotland becoming Independent?
6

Edward,

02/10/2008 00:53:46
Not this story gain!
Does Hamish MacDonnell really think that by repeating the same rubbish, it will be any more believable?
THe piece is badly written by the way, who is 'Sir christopher? is that a first name or surname, its not clear
Perhaps our erstwhile journo is talking about Sir Christophr Meyer, one time UK Ambassador in Washington and now member of the press complaints commission
7

Teofilio Cubillas,

02/10/2008 01:00:01
"If it were to happen, people would be stunned."

You're kidding, right? You'd be lucky if 10% of the American population could point to Scotland on a map, let alone give two hoots about the internal politics of the United Kingdom.

8

chippie lover,

Election queue 02/10/2008 01:13:25
Big Business do not care who or what is in power. If there is a profit to be made they will invest.

If Scotland is to prosper, all taxes will have to be lower than England.

9

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 02/10/2008 02:02:16
Hamish Macdonell is ploughing old ground here. I posted the following comment (#14) to a very similar article of his in the 27 September Scotsman:

"Lord Kerr says American politicians "would see it [an independent Scotland] as a weakening of the United Kingdom which they see as the principle European, and possibly global, ally."

"Some politicians would see it that way because they had been influenced by the work(?) of Professor Tom Gallagher of Bradford University in England, who spent a good part of this year spreading disinformation about Scotland to the so-called National Endowment for Democracy (NED) in Washington DC.

"Those politicians love democracy for the United States but not for countries that do not toe the American line.

"Most Americans who know anything about Scotland wonder why Scotland isn't independent already.

"(BTW, Hamish Macdonell, you should learn the difference between "principle" and "principal".)"
10

,

02/10/2008 02:07:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
11

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 02/10/2008 02:08:08
Hamish Macdonell: Could your "Sir Christopher" be Sir Christopher Meyer, KCMG (born 22 February 1944), a former British Ambassador to the United States (1997–2003), and later – and maybe still – chair of the Press Complaints Commission?

12

An Beal Bacht,

02/10/2008 02:58:08
I think many Americans would celebrate Scottish independence. Many in the American branch of my family are dismayed that it didn't happen years ago.
13

Royster,

02/10/2008 03:20:58
Oh dear...
14

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 02/10/2008 03:56:03
If Hamish's "Sir Christopher" really is Sir Christopher Meyer KCMG, a former British Ambassador to the United States, this would explain both his and Lord Kerr's attitudes. Ambassadors rarely interact with the host country's ordinary people. They mix with the "elite". The American "elite" are mostly anglophiles.
15

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 02/10/2008 03:59:23
#14 Royster: What are you "oh dear...ing" about? Do you think I'm going to report Hamish to Sir Christopher's Press Complaints Commission?
16

Snuffy Ivy,

Aberdeen 02/10/2008 04:28:48
Last time I asked a Yank to locate Scotland on a map, she thought it was in London somwhere! Seriously folks.
17

somerferg,

perth 02/10/2008 05:35:32

Hambo - you've done it again. A pathetic piece of junk journalism about who?? Oh yes someone no-one has heard of spouting on about the perils of independence. How's about asking some US politicians what they think of a country moving towards independence from Wasteminster. I think the majority would hark back to their own war of independence and fully support Scotland in its struggle to get away from "taxation without representation".
18

Ubi,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 06:05:16
America would look at Scotland and say, "Jeez, we could be right in there, get our feet on the ground right next to them sneaky London folks. How about that! Let's git some dollars in there before them darned Ruskies do it."
19

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 02/10/2008 06:30:32
Oh no its the end of the Independance Campaign by us Scottish Patriots. Microsoft just took over a large part of the now developed old GPO in Edinburghs East End. Their bound to shoot through now these titled traitors have said so.

What utter sheite old Hamish talks. Must be a quiet posting day b the Scottish People. Got to get those web hits up, too save the Hootsman.

Corporate Taxes of 12% will have them lining up at the door, and the fact that they are coming to the best country in the world. Except for the Unionista Numpties, and the fact that Brown and Darling were born here.
20

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 02/10/2008 06:48:08
Nothing but troll feed here. Just aint worth any effort.
21

Colkitto,

River Clyde 02/10/2008 07:04:50
Are expected to seriously believe that USA companies who can make very big profits here in Scotland are suddenly not going to invest simply because we are no longer ruled by London ? Even although a Scottish government would make it economically better for them than it is just now ?
I have never heard so much guff in all my life....no I take that back, but it's right up there with some of the other british propaganda
22

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/10/2008 07:08:44
20
I just love self-righteous nats who call others numpties then fail to spell independence correctly.
You just couldn't make it up.
23

donald,

glasgow 02/10/2008 07:10:03
The Hootsman, as ever, is dredging the trough.
24

donald,

glasgow 02/10/2008 07:11:20
The Hootsman, as ever, is dredging the trough.
25

donald,

glasgow 02/10/2008 07:12:29
The noble Lords no more speak for America, or Scotland, than the Northbritishperson speaks for the Scots.
26

Randomly Blocked Poster, ,

02/10/2008 07:13:18
Surely Hamish is not trying to imply that the Yanks don't handle reality too well.
27

Ugly George,

02/10/2008 07:38:01
20 A better Way

"Corporate Taxes of 12% will have them lining up at the door"

Maybe - but only after they have been to Guernsey and Jersey first. They have set corporation tax at 0%. It's difficult to see how you can beat that.
28

Royster,

02/10/2008 07:55:40
I'm sure Americans don't care either way. They're too worried about having to pay 5% of GDP to bail out Wall Street and keep a roof over their heads.
29

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 08:05:41
During the brief six week period of the amicable Velvet Divorce between the Czechs and Slovaks, U.S. diplomats attempted to dissuade the dissolution of Czechoslovakia by warning the two parties about future US invesment.

The United States is now a major investor in the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

As a US politician once stated: The business of America is.....business!
30

Scotsman in Dublin,

02/10/2008 08:15:53
From a headline like "Independent Scotland 'would shock US", you would have thought that the Scotsman would actually have a quote from an American to back this up, but no, its a couple of unionist politicians...
31

eric,

lothian 02/10/2008 08:30:32
Dont care if they do or dont.
32

Angoos,

Baku, Azerbaijan 02/10/2008 08:44:34
When I worked in America (granted it WAS in Texas) most fo the folk I met didn't even know where the UK was never mind Scotland. The most common answer I got when I told someone where I was from was "Is that somewhere in Europe ??
As many previous posters have stated, most Americans couldn't give a stuff.
33

brownlie,

02/10/2008 08:46:51
23 Grahamskit

Hate to be pedantic but "if they fail to spell independence properly" then they must be making it up.

Congratulations on your usual relevant posting.
34

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 08:47:42
Don't make us laugh ! As far as the average American goes Scotland just does not exist. The average American has no knowledge and even less interest in affairs beyond the home state let alone internationally. We were in the US in 1991 when President Gorbachev was kidnapped and the people we spoke to had no idea who he was or where he came from, it was not reported in the papers or on TV.
35

brownlie,

02/10/2008 08:51:46
"it might mean that they stop investing, but not necessarily so"

translated means

"I don't know, one way or the other".
36

Spoot,

Third rock mpool on the left 02/10/2008 08:54:06
Dateline 1776: "Independent USA shocks United Kingdom!"

I believe that most of us has got used to it.
37

Boy Wonder,

02/10/2008 08:56:13
Sir Christopher ?

Sack the lazy journo AND the proof-reader who let this through.

In fact ... sack the entire team on the Hootsmon and let's re-staff with journos who don't work or write according to the New Labour manifesto!
38

Anonym,

it aint necessarily so! 02/10/2008 08:57:01
"It maybe means that they might stop investing, but not necessarily so."

Right, I'm glad that's been cleared up.
39

scottish person,

paisley 02/10/2008 09:06:49
Journalism at its worst. What utter cr#p. Macdonnell go south and give us peace.
40

Mike S,

02/10/2008 09:11:14
The Scotsman is run by a group that own lots of local newspapers across the UK and as such they treat the Scotsman as a local paper. Look at the list of sister papers and the local news delivery in these local rags and it is similar to the Scotsman treatment of "local" Scottish news.
41

Ananurhing,

02/10/2008 09:32:56
As I said a couple of days ago Hamish, you're regarded as a bit of a joke. As soon as your name appears the bullsh*t alarm goes off, and everyone reaches for a large pinch of salt.
Hamish talking in the familiar of his pal "Sir Christopher" Surprised Hamish refrained from calling him Sir Chris or Chrisikins even.

Fact is there's been a huge upsurge in Americans who identify themselves as "Scots Americans" to over 10% of the population. Add to this their spouses and the wannabes, thats a sizeable chunk of the electorate. How difficult would it be to mobilise them?
If Hamish or anyone else thinks that a Washington administration would run the risk of alienating them, to support a mortally wounded, outdated union that they themselves rebelled against, he's deluded as well as spinning.
You're in a tizz Hamish, and no ones listening!
42

Ewan M,

02/10/2008 09:36:17
A part from the fact America is Scotland largest investor by a country mile, who cares what they think right?

It goes to prove no matter what is said by highly qualified and experienced people that SNP supporters don't care? Indepedence at all cost no thanks, that's why you'll never win.

I see comments like because he is a Sir he is trying to manipulate us or the Scotsman is trying to brainwash us with quoted jounalism. It sounds like there are many on here who are aready brainwashed by the SNP.
43

Farky,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 09:38:42
It's Lord Kerr that shall be stunned, not the yanks!
Good old Lord Kerr with his fancy title from his Westminster chums, trying to put the fear of death into the Scots once again by talking of investments being withdrawn because the Scots might vote for their country to be independent.

44

brusque,

02/10/2008 09:44:58
Is anyone, and I mean ANYONE, seriously suggesting that Americans are concerning themselves with what is happening anywhere outside of their own shores??

The roof is falling in on the American economy, they are withing weeks of going to the ballot for a new President, but they are still sitting around Starbucks chatting about Scotland getting its' Independence?

You can just hear it now.

"Hey Chuck, how are you going to manage now that you've lost your job and your house"

"Heck, I don't know Bob, it's the worst possible news - what with Scotland talking about Independence as well"

Check your tobacco pouch Hamish, I've a feeling some "herbal" stuff must have got in there:-)
45

Alan B,

02/10/2008 10:02:12
What Sir Christopher left out was the reason the $700 billion rescue plan was rejected a few days ago were due to US fears about the stability of the union in the uk.

Bush is expected to appeal to Salmond directly to keep the union intact for the sake of the US and global economy.
46

Alan B,

02/10/2008 10:07:02
#Ewan M

I am really surprise you are that gullible. A unionist supporting paper reports on someone saying that the roof will fall in if Scotland goes independent.

That is actually the reason the union will disappear. Rather than actually having solid reasons and arguments for the union it is all about irrational fear.

We can all see how the US strong supported the UK to keep the Irish British. No they did not did they. Whether it was the kennedies and the link to the republician support and fund raising, despite being during the cold war. Or Clinton being seen in NI as favouring the republicians and meeting Adams to give him creditibility.
47

Gtj,

02/10/2008 10:19:49
No one in the US knows where Scotland is - never mind care about it's Independence.
48

Ananurhing,

02/10/2008 10:27:50
#46 Ewan M

What? " highly qualified and experienced people"!
So an anonymous peer of the British establishment makes wooly, unattributable scaremongering comments to a discredited journo, and you expect us to take them seriously? Aye right!
49

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 10:36:21
47 Farky
As others have said, US investors will make whatever decision suits them in terms of investment. If it suits them to invest somewhere they will do it - if it doesn't they won't.

I don't think that that is a problem. A problem could arise throu any prolongued period of uncertainty. The proposed referendum in 2010, as I understand it, is to give the Scottish govt the authority to negotiate a seettlement. How long would this take and what about negotiations on the terms of Scotland's membership of the EU. Would they run concurrenly or would they have to await a settlement with Westminster first.

Also, if a settlement is reached, how long would it take to set up separate institutions, Inland Revenue, Customs and Excise, Foreign Office etc.

If all of this takes some time and the outcomes are not clear for some time then there may well be a prolongued period of uncertainty which would not be conducive to any new investment.
50

Alan B,

02/10/2008 10:52:58
#Ugly George

Think you are overplaying the uncertaintly angle.

A business will invest in Scotland if it thinks it is a more suitable place to do business ie cheaper, better skill base etc.

If say the snp were to take us to independence, and continued to be committed to a cut in corporation taxes to 20% I cannot see a business being turned off.

Most of the things you specify are irrelevent to a business.

The things tht are relevent would be our place in the EU, currency and future tax and investment policies. With the snp wanting to stay with sterling initially there is not going to be any currency problems. The EU issue is the only one that is something that should be nailed. Unfortunately the uk government have not ensured guarantees round this issue so the people can vote without fear. In fact the uk governmetn actually uses it to create fear.

51

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 10:53:05
51 GtJ
That may well be true but it is not the real issue. The real issue is the attitude and perception of the US govt and business not the general public. Would the US govt be concerned over whether Scotland remains in NATO. Will businesses see Scotland as a suitable place to invest or will they see it as a country with a semi-socialist state with high levels of public spending which will make tax reductions difficult to pursue.
52

Ugly George,

edinburgh 02/10/2008 11:05:07
55 Alan B
It is not really a matter of being turned off. It's a matter of not being sure. There may be a policy to reduce corporation tax to 20% but if the price of oil falls and production declines further, this would hit revenues hard and may make tax reductions difficult.

This may be a fundamental aspect of where you and I differ. You have the view that by being independent, Scotland would have the power to make the decisions which could attract investment etc.. That is perfectly logical, but my view differs in the respect that I feel Scotland may overemphasise the value of the oil and could be very vulnerable. That is why I feel that fundamental reforms in the reduction of high levels of govt spending are required first - ie so the economy could be fairly secure irrespective of the oil.
53

energizer,

02/10/2008 11:27:55
Read the article objectively. Meyer is saying that while [some] Americans are aware of an SNP administration they don't link it with independence. Kerr is saying independence would simply be a factor for American businesses to consider when making future investment decisions.
The first is an opinion, likely correct. The second is a truism for any investment decision.
54

Proximaking,

Aberdeen 02/10/2008 12:26:00
And just where are our "friends" the Yanks going to get the money for investment anywhere as the dollar links to oil reduce and they can't print dollars and export their inflation anymore? Maybe Sir Christopher should answer that one before wondering where they are going to spend the now non-existent investment funds. The Yanks have a very high "invisibles" economy and all that has happened is the little boy has said "But the Emperor has no clothes on" and everyone else has agreed and the "invisibles" are now truly invisible ...... at last. In an increasingly engineered world the engineer, and not the financier, always was, is and shall always remain, King. Salmond should be concentrating on getting rid of "can't do" teachers and he couldn't do better than to get 50/50 male/female teachers in primary schools and if that means paying men 50% more to attract them then so be it. Can you imagine what would be said, and the steps that would be taken to redress it, if 95% of primary school teachers were men?
55

The Master,

02/10/2008 12:26:01
No need to worry, America. I remember being on holiday in Bath at the time when several building societies were demutualising and seeing a big notice in the window of the Bath Building Society, which was a letter from the Chief Executive, obviously seeking to deter carpetbaggers from opening accounts in the hope of obtaining a windfall by saying that there was no prospect of the society demutualising because the economics were frankly ludicrous.

Much the same applies to Salmond Economics and the so called case for Scottish separation. While I accept that oil revenues will provide a cushion for at least twenty years, the vast majority are well aware that you have to take a long term view for the sake of future generations. Don't worry, America: the rise of nationalism in recent times has been based on a jumped up pressure group obtaining votes on the back of populist policies which are not separation related. It's all a nonsense which just refuses to go away and I think many Nats know this deep down: end of!
56

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

02/10/2008 12:44:45
Even if Scotland were independent I doubt your average American would actually know it.
57

,

02/10/2008 14:22:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
58

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 02/10/2008 14:43:48
"Scaatland - that's in England I think", might be the shocked response to independence.

Maybe Americans are more shocked that there aren't still huge grants being given to US startups here, and then asset-strip and sod off when the money runs out!
59

Ananurhing,

02/10/2008 15:56:17
In the 1980s the Scottish tourist board did a survey of Americans who were here on holiday, to see if they actually knew where Scotland was. Most of them thought they were on an island off the coast of England/Britain.

I remember being asked by an American lady in Edinburgh, "When do you get the newspapers up here?" I replied "It depends on whether the boat gets in or not!" She was quite happy with that.
60

The Master,

02/10/2008 16:41:56
#69 Ananurhing: greetings! How's the Italian farmhouse getting along?

I notice that you cite the situation with Americans, but I think you'll find that there is a far higher awareness of Scoland throuhgout much of the rest of the world, if only because of the profile afforded to the nation through the rugby and soccer teams.

I doubt if the Nats' much touted separation policy would make much difference to the recognition of Scotland, either in the US or the rest of the world.
61

European Scot,

02/10/2008 16:59:38
70 The Master

" I doubt if the Nats' much touted separation policy would make much difference to the recognition of Scotland, either in the US or the rest of the world."

An appearance at the United Nations, and the EU, as Scotland, would make a significant difference not only to American, but to World perceptions.
Of course a Unionist like yourself would prefer to keep Scotland buried in the 'UK' as a manageable asset, or 'region.'
Interesting to see you constantly repeating the term 'separation', that flavour of the moment Unionist terminology for 'gaining Independence', which is how the majority of the World considers it, including the Americans, who are well experienced in that endeavour !
62

Ananurhing,

02/10/2008 17:17:26
#70 Hi Master

Still hasn't happened yet I'm afraid. Italian families have a very convoluted way of doing things. In light of recent events it's perhaps for the best. We'll see! No Hurry!

Interesting that after the HBOShit hit the fan, Salmond got loads of international TV coverage. Perhaps because he had more to say on the matter than Broon did with his wooly soundbites.
As I know I've mentioned to you before, I know people in other parts of Europe who keep an eye on what's happening in Scotland, and regard Salmond as one of the few European political heavyweights. I know they were looking forward to him and Broon sparring as Broon is a supposed heavyweight also. Kind of fizzled out in the first round though with Broon fudging, ducking and diving though, didn't it?

I doubt very much if our football team affords us much international recognition.
63

Truely English,

02/10/2008 17:35:19
Good on you, Sir Christopher it is time we heard more support from people like yourself, who know what it is like to live in the real world and not one tinged with fantasy.
We are all British and should be proud of this fact. What other nation has the advantages we have had over the past 300 years as rulers rather than having been ruled by the rest of the world.

64

Spoot,

Third rock pool on the left 02/10/2008 18:04:07
#73

Your posting is either the most relentlessly consistent example of irony yet seen on these messageboards or a message from a world not tinged with fantasy but consisting entirely of it.

"300 years as rulers" indeed!
65

ThomasP,

02/10/2008 19:52:27
#73.

Bring British sucks though.
66

Ugly George,

edinburgh 02/10/2008 20:40:49
71 Europen Scot
"An appearance at the United Nations, and the EU, as Scotland, would make a significant difference not only to American, but to World perceptions."

Do you really think so. I am not saying that the UK has huge influence or signifiance but, by the same token, are people around the world going to pay much attention to yet another small country out of 190 odd others at the UN? Does anybody pay much attention to Paraguay, Costa Rica or Belarus?

Similarly do many people in the 27 EU countries really give much consideration to Slovakia or Cyprus?
67

Eve,

Scotland 02/10/2008 21:32:37
"Independent Scotland 'would shock US'"

Great another reason for Scottish independence!

Rally, have you never wathced Amercian telly programmes like Jerry Springer and Judge Jude!

The Americans like being socked.

They are also very easily shock (or so it would appear, form the ones that have been on telly)
68

European Scot,

02/10/2008 22:13:44
76 Ugly George

A belated good evening, Ugly George !

" Does anybody pay much attention to Paraguay, Costa Rica or Belarus?"

Well you just did !
To be honest, they have all figured in News stories on 'Euronews' recently, so they are not exactly unknown.

" Similarly do many people in the 27 EU countries really give much consideration to Slovakia or Cyprus?"

They are at least regarded as countries, but try and explain exactly what Scotland is to people in Europe.
I have spent a great deal of my time trying to convince friends from different countries in Europe and elsewhere, that Scotland is a Nation, that it has its own history etc.
The response is usually very polite, and then up pops the same old question, why isn't Scotland at the UN or in the EU.
It's a fair question.
As long as Scotland remains in the UK, that question will persist.
Independence is the definitive answer.
69

Rex H. McTyeire,

South Carolina 02/10/2008 22:47:05
The comments are more interesting than the article :) This American of heavy Scot descent has been running an e-List for 8 years to promote: 1) Independence at and if the will of the resident Scots in majority; 2) better understanding between residents and "Diasporans", "Exiles" and descended world wide (there are millions of us..gone 3 weeks or 3 centuries; 3) to educate interested Americans and others world wide( of any descent) on the prospects for independence of Scotland; and 4 ) explore and promote truth in Scottish history..rather than leave it to the Trevor-Ropers of the world. It is FreeScots@yahoogroups.com Hundreds of Americans and residents of all political stripes have been through the door..and keep comming.. just to hear it is possible. The world is not as lost on the point as some would suppose. 40 thousand messages archived, a few hundred members and growing.
70

Thomas1,

// 03/10/2008 07:30:27
Yes i can just imagine it,all the Americans sitting in Mcdonalds munching away on giant french fries and burgers,and suddenly on TV the news reporter announces that wee Scotland has caused the breakup of the UK,suddenly there is silence and everyone stops munching-for about three seconds-who cares anyway burgers are more important.

 

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