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Scots do not want to end the Union, merely modify it

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Published Date: 22 January 2008
Holyrood parties face big challenges and the constitutional issue is central to them in differing ways
IT'S time. Time for a change. Time to move on. This is the last column from this writer which will appear in this position in this paper. A new and extremely challenging role on the business desk awaits.

Sadly, it means no time for the glorious se
lf-indulgence of expressing a weekly opinion on the affairs of the nation.

The world of politics is a continuously fascinating one. There is always something new. Political parties take power and always, in the end, lose it. Politicians' fortunes ebb and flow. Plots and conspiracies abound. Policies evolve and change.

Over time, the decisions made by our elected representatives really do "make a difference", a phrase politicians use frequently, to the lives of the poor, long-suffering voters whose interests they are supposed to represent. Politics matters.

And having spent many years at both Westminster and Holyrood as a reporter – and worked, albeit for only a year, on the "dark side" as a special adviser to former First Minister Henry McLeish – politics had become like a drug. It is addictive, hard to kick. It induces an urge to go back for another hit. And another. And another.

But it is time to confront the addiction, something that counsellors will tell you can only be done if the subject wants to. This addict does, and reporting the world of business, vital to the success of this country, will be a way of remaining "clean".

Departing for new pastures is traditionally a reason to reflect. The temptation is to look back, to muse on what might have been, to settle a few old scores along the way. It is a temptation best resisted. What's done is done and cannot be undone.

So, instead, let us look forward to what could be and what should be in politics as it relates to Scotland. Few people would dispute that the election of an SNP government at Holyrood last May has given the Scottish Parliament a much-needed injection of democratic adrenaline.

It has been a theme of these columns that a Labour and Liberal Democrat administration grown stale and tired has been replaced by a party which was finally fit to govern, and prepared to do so.

Alex Salmond has had a rumbustious start to his premiership, resolutely refusing to be taken for granted by Westminster politicians, bristling on behalf of Scotland at every sleight, real or perceived.

A naturally belligerent politician, Mr Salmond tempered his style during the election and has generally resisted what even some of his party colleagues admit is a tendency to descend into hubris.

Mr Salmond's approach has, so far, been remarkably successful. The public seem to like his spikey approach to Westminster, his assertion of Scottishness, and appear to blame Gordon Brown, not the First Minister, for the chilly cross-Border relations.

In domestic policies, the SNP has been populist and is popular as a result. John Swinney's astute handing of the move to freeze council tax across Scotland has gone down well with voters, as has the initiative to reverse accident and emergency unit closures.

It has been, to use another theme from these columns, populism with a purpose, the purpose being to persuade the voters of Scotland that, first, the SNP could run the country under the devolved powers, but to reinforce the message that what the nation requires is independence.

And what strikes this columnist most about the time spent directly covering – or when engaged on a Westminster beat, merely closely observing – Scottish politics, is that the constitution question that has underlain modern Caledonian discourse remains.

Despite the best efforts of first Tory and then Labour politicians, much of Scottish politics still centres on the constitutional. The status of Scotland as a nation within a larger state, and the conflict and the anomalies that this throws up, makes that inevitable.

The consequences of that are uncomfortable for all of the major parties. For the SNP, there is the grave danger of conflating their current popularity with support for independence. They may be popular, but polls shows no desire for separation from the UK.

The Achilles heel of the Nationalists is the fundamental belief that many, though not all, have: that support for independence equates with patriotism. It is a mindset which deep, deep down simply cannot comprehend that one can be a Scottish patriot and not support independence. It is a weakness over which the SNP has yet to be properly confronted.

The test for the other political parties is, if anything, greater. They must find a way of demonstrating both that devolution can evolve – more power for Holyrood seems inevitable now – and make a convincing case for the retention of a United Kingdom.

So as a column is for the expression of opinion, here is a penultimate one: it is my belief that Scots do not want to end the Union, merely to modify it, possibly quite radically.

This will mean that Scotland will have to shoulder a greater responsibility for running her own affairs, including raising more, if not all, of the money that is spent here. That process may not be comfortable, but it will be worthwhile in the long term.

And one final opinion offered sincerely to those politicians who must make the case for a new Union: they should take their inspiration from the insight of John P Mackintosh, the late Labour MP for East Lothian and pioneer of the home-rule movement.

His simple, eloquent words, carved into the threshold of the Donald Dewar Room at Holyrood, read: "People in Scotland want a degree of government for themselves. It is not beyond the wit of man to devise institutions to meet these demands."



The full article contains 978 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 January 2008 11:08 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Nikostratos,

22/01/2008 00:08:27
And what does a radically modified 'Union' look like........two separate nations i would suggest.

Raise all the money spent in Scotland. But what about the money from the oil going to Westminster?
2

Arrow,

edinburgh 22/01/2008 00:13:07
interesting article. i also understand that there is a suggestion by some Labour members that Wendy attends the Westminster Cabinet meetings. is that to save on phone calls when she is getting her instructions or in case a stray e-mail pops up like the pantomime devil and embarasses her. has she a new spin doctor or will she inherit Browne's wee liability? intersting times chaps!!
3

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 22/01/2008 00:23:06
"The Achilles heel of the Nationalists is the fundamental belief that many, though not all, have: that support for independence equates with patriotism. It is a mindset which deep, deep down simply cannot comprehend that one can be a Scottish patriot and not support independence."

As a long term supporter of independence I agree with this statement; there are those who express their nationalism in this wayl. Equally, there are those on the Unionist side who see any support for independence as 'extremism', or 'borderline fascism', and expend a great deal of time trying to prove this to be the case with spurious arguments and long lists of statistics. I have never attempted to suggest that Unionists are racists or extremists, though I have no doubt that some are; but I find that to express support for independence frequently leaves me open to the accusation that I am a 'nationalist' and therefore comparable to Nazis and followers of Milosevic. I'm used to it but it does get pretty tiring.

I think you are probably right that most people want more devolution and not independence but I do not think that the Unionist parties are, at present, capable of offering a coherent alternative. It might just be that devolution is a process that won't stop with more devolution but will aspire instead to full independence.
4

Royster,

22/01/2008 00:24:06
#1. Oil revenue has only been around since the 1970s and for many years the oil price was very low. Even with today's record highs, in sterling terms it isn't that great. And guess what, we now have a recssion looming. Wonder which way the oil price is going to go?
5

britfree,

camelon 22/01/2008 00:34:50
peter its enough with the blah already! 80% of us know whats the question....now whens the question
6

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 00:41:35
'The Achilles heel of the Nationalists is the fundamental belief that many, though not all, have: that support for independence equates with patriotism.'

How is that a weakness? Despite decades of false predictions and wishful thinking from unionists, the SNP is still here and going strong. There must be something driving us on!
7

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 00:54:02
There may be greater support for devolution than independence, but that could hide a whole range of different views. Doubtless at least some of those will be people who would not need much to convince them of the value of independence.

The unionists do not do their case much good when they descend to insulting the Scottish nation and people-which they frequently do. The latest example to emerge was that of Des Brown's assistant calling Scotland a 'narrow presbyterian country'.

The 'Scots are simply not smart enough to run their own affairs' brigade really need to take a hard look at themselves and ask not only if their strategy is effective, but if indeed there isn't something seriously mentally wrong with them that would make them say such things in the first place.
8

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 01:25:06
7. AM2

we see much worse, in the main stream media and on these sites:

"Scots are a nation of pathetic whiners" English Voice, Scotsman

"Scots are pathetic" Kimba, Scotsman

Or "Scots enjoy spending money, not earning it" Kelvin MacKenzie, editor, Sun

" We English are a generous people and are very generous to the Scots" M. Thatcher

"I absolutely hate the Scots" Rob7, Scotsman

"Scots make me sick. They should be expelled from England" Interested, The Time



You would appear less of a fanatical, one dimensional, dribbling, partisan, agitating, dullard if you condemned racism on all fronts rather than repeatedly trying to deploy it, foster it, promote it, nurture it and quote it in a one sided and pathetic debasement of decent debate. Particularly when we know you post half the comments you quote yourself. Grow up, engage in mature democratic discussion, or shrink into the vile, negative, scaremongering undergrowth you seem to increasingly prefer and get and a job as a senior "Scottish" Labour adviser.

9

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 01:30:04
10. AM2

what are your thoughts on the poll (social attitudes study) to be publsihed this week that show a mighty 3% of Scots identify with being British and 73% identify with with mostly Scottish?

10

The Strategist,

22/01/2008 01:38:36
An independent Scotland wouldn't have run an economic policy that threatens recession, used oddles of public money to support a minor bank with what even the Chancellor admits was a flawed business model, allowed the wholesale selloff of their industry to satisfy the greed of the gamblers in the City, allowed house prices to get completely out of hand or both our trade deficit and Govt deficit to reach record and completely unsustainable levels.

You want traitors AM2 then look no further than Westminster. They've managed to betray the entire UK not just Scotland.


11

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 01:52:59
12. unworthy of a reply, and yet your rabid froth dribbles forth?

You dismiss the vile, racist, anti-Scottish comments as from "pillocks" - so why then do you quote such similar anti-English silly sentiments in your post above as being significant? One less charitable might think you a biased, pompous, posturing, one-sided fanatic with an axe to grind? Or are silly comments that suit your knee jerk fanatical agenda of note, but silly comments that do not, to be dismissed? Perhaps you could provide some kind of grading scale (the AM2 Brit Nat Fanatic Scale?) by which we could all measure silly comments (those which give credence to your view of Scots as racist being weighted highly of course, those of an anti-Scottish nature being feather weighted, of course?).

The Thatcher quote is from the Times - sadly pre-Internet geek times, perhaps you can toddle off to the library and verify it, meanwhile it is undisputed.

Now, I must go and log on here as a several vociferous racists (that is what you pay me for,AM, is it not) and type a few silly comments for you to quote to spare you engaging in real debate. Happy scaremongering, negative, debasement of politics day....a man's a man for a' that....
12

,

22/01/2008 02:01:05
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13

,

22/01/2008 02:22:04
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14

,

22/01/2008 02:27:52
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15

An Beal Bacht,

22/01/2008 02:40:15
PETER MACMAHON says:

"it is my belief that Scots do not want to end the Union..."

Well that's it then. Alex an aw they SNP can go hame noo. It's ower - MacMahon says so. Aye. Well he was a special adviser to former First Minister Henry McLeish - so it must be true!
16

An Beal Bacht,

22/01/2008 02:42:53
22 - Aye he's as welcome as a fart in an elevator that yin.
17

,

22/01/2008 04:06:07
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18

,

22/01/2008 04:58:23
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19

Julian.,

edinburgh 22/01/2008 05:12:23
MacAlba # 26 etc,

Ah yes, I remember another famous Scotsman with the catchphrase "free by '93". I presume he was talking about 2093.

You forgot to mention the most important poll of all. 3rd May 2007, SNP form minority government on 33% of the vote; a high water mark for them.
20

Alan Reid,

NZ 22/01/2008 07:02:38
19 AM2,
“We want to get rid of that parasite slug off our ass, it's called England.” – Alan Reid
And I still have that opinion. But that doesn't make me anti English, nice try but you fail again.
# 27, It would have been alot more if the corrupt labour party had not ruined 140.000 ballot papers in an attempt to highjack the election, happily they failed, and Scotland is now governed by a party that puts Scotland first.
21

Alan Reid,

NZ 22/01/2008 07:19:40
“Scots do not want to end the Union, merely modify it”
Ok I’ll vote to stay in the Union, but it will have to be modified. Starting with total control over the economy, defense, fishing, immigration, and energy, how’s that for starters?
22

McNasty,

Edinburgh 22/01/2008 07:22:33
Surely the only opinion poll that matters is when the whole Scottish electorate is asked?

However, good luck in the new job Peter, just like Scotland; perhaps a wee change is good for us all?

23

morris,

edinburgh 22/01/2008 07:34:50
4

The 236 billion which has been realised so far,(Scottish sector North Sea oil revenues), MUST HAVE an effect upon the United Kingdom economy.Scotland has an economy, whose size is only 10% of thatof the UK,and therefore that same amount of money injected into an independent Scotland, is automatically magnified tenfold, without doing anything. It would make a huge difference to Scotlands standard of living, and its classroom arithmetic ONLY ,which is required to understand this.
I can understand that someone from south of the border could find it hard to adjust to being in a foreign country ,where he is not" British" anymore,but what benefits the residents of a country (irrespective of origin) is what should happen. We may disagree on whether Scotland should go down this road to wealth and self respect,but please do not suggest that there can be any reason why we should not do so, other than Westminster also wants that OIL, and we might be perceived as greedy for wanting to keep it.
When one considers that we have been lied to for forty years, over the value and effect of the oil,I do not feel in any way greedy,In fact I would point out England ,or at least the South East ,have already had more than their fair share of it!If the rest of the UK was ripped off also thats their problem to deal with.The sooner they do this,the better.
24

morris,

edinburgh 22/01/2008 07:44:49
30
Greetings New Zealand.

Absolutely Alan!
The only acceptable modification is one where we control the purse strings,and anything less is clearly just another exercise in power retained, rather than devolved.We can rest assured that the oil revenues will NOT BE surrendered by Westminster UNTIL SUCH TIME AS INTERNATIONAL LAW MAKES IT ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT WESTMINSTER CANNOT AVOID DOING SO ,and that of course is a referendum on self determination whose result is unambiguous, and binding in law.
The only other contender, a federalist solution would require that oil revenues stay in Scotland (or its just another con).We would be as well being independent as nearly independent!

INDEPENDENCE................ the only way forward !
25

James,

Dundee 22/01/2008 07:46:47
Anybody watching Newsnight Scotland, would have been witness to the brazen and weak performance of Jackie 'Steakbake' The Hutt.
When challenged about the 'transparency' of Labour 950ers she wibbled, wobbled - even Glenn was chucling at her 'performance'.
There should be in independent inquiry into how somebody so ill suited can have been elected. She puts the dumb in Dumbarton!

I was so glad to see sanity restored when I swiched over to STV to see John Colquohoun & co.

On topic - surely a Referendum will settle the argument - Peter if your so confident the campaign for one starts here and now surely?
26

Conway,

22/01/2008 07:49:16
Ah Peter here lies the problem with working for a political party,whether you think it or not we the public assume that you will be biased towards the party that enployed you.
Yes i too will stay with the Union ..the European one a new constitution(all but in name) has been passed more control handed to the European Parliament.The British Union has had its day its time to move forward.
27

Jimmy the Pie,

22/01/2008 07:52:29
I am Scottish born and bred. I consider myself Scottish, never British. I wish to see Scotland gain her independence and regain her dignity. I don't hate the English. I hate the English *rseholes equally with any other *rseholes I come across on my travels, including Scots *rseholes.
Won't be too long now judging by the way Alex conducts himself, and the Unionists are in such disarray with inbred Labour strangling itself and the Tories and Libdums staggering about like headless chickens.
Oh happy days!!
28

morris,

edinburgh 22/01/2008 07:52:35
27
You forget that we have opened up a ten point lead over Labour since then! You are the one who lives in the past!

The SNP vote has risen to a level, which exceeds that enjoyed by many Westminster governments, and being selective with your stats ,only serves to confirm the desperation of your argument,which is just about finished.It will end when Scotlands numpties waken up to find that they voted LABOUR again,and elected another Tory government,and the rest of us will rightly call them a bunch of (plural form of the language closest to Gaelic and spoken in Ireland)!
29

subrosa,

22/01/2008 08:25:38
# 8 AM2
The potential for extremism arises in comments such as those of Winnie Ewing, quoted on the SNP's website, that non-nationalists are “traitors”, “enemies of Scotland” and only “claiming to be Scottish”.

Please give me the link for this. Thanks.
30

subrosa,

22/01/2008 08:38:55
# 18 and # 19 AM2

Sadly I've read very similar remarks on the BBC's, Daily Telegraph, Times and Guardian's websites with regard to Scots. Possibly a sign of the times and frustration on both sides.

Unlike you I don't cut and paste them for reference. Also I haven't recorded the many rude remarks I had in the many years I lived in England but I will record one now. A man I worked with for some years used to greet me every morning with "Ock aye the noo. Hoo's yer lum? Oh I forgot they don't even have indoor toilets where you come from". I remember that word for word as I must have heard it well over 1500 times. Even after I became his superior it continued until he finally moved to another job. Sad Englishman and I'm quite sure there are sad Scotsmen around too. Nothing to do with politics AM2 it's to do with human nature. Is that rather too philosophical for you?
31

Gusto,

22/01/2008 08:39:07
The Achilles heel of the Unionists is the fundamental belief that many, though not all, have: that support for unionism equates with patriotism.
32

Michael,

22/01/2008 08:50:23
Good riddance to this Labour has been. It was always ridiculous of the Scotsman to appoint someone with such a clear party bias as a political commentator and the haverings in this article are evidence of Peter's continuing inability to think outside the party box.

Like all Labour careerists and party hacks his main concern is not with what is best for the country but what is best for Labour. In his column he has frequently and, I susupect often unconsciously, conflated the two matters. Like many other dyed in the wool unionists he fails to see the difference between hesitancy on the question of independence and enthusiaism for the union. In the normal Labour way he sees one and hopes for the other. The bald truth is that most Scots are either hostile or indifferent to the Union and hesitant about independence. The polls which AM2 freuently cites provide evidence of that. Unfortunately for Labour they continue to misread the evidence imagining the opposite of what the polls actually tell them. It is this inability to read Scottish voters that will lead to Labour's continuing electoral failure.

Anyway, we should all be thankful that we don't have to read any more of his under-graduate musings on Scottish politics. I suppose it won't be long until we are reading how the global credit crunch is all down to Salmond and the evil nationalist administration in Edinburgh.
33

Boy Wonder,

22/01/2008 08:53:41
Of course we want to "modify" the Union. We want to "modify" it out of existence! Complete control over all of our own affairs, borders, oil, electricity ... yadda, yadda, yadda! The whole nine yards, as they say!

And I'm fed up reading about "polls suggest"! Polls LIE!!! All the time! A percentage of the population does NOT speak for the whole population. The only speak for that particular percentage. High time we kicked "statistics" into touch. They only ever say what the pollsters want them to say. I never believe them ... and so far, I'm not wrong ... 98.2% of the time!





34

FreeLand,

The New World 22/01/2008 09:05:24
If I can ask without attracting a hail of abuse:

As far as I can see from the postings here, Scotland’s economic survival post-independence is largely predicated on control of oil. Is this sensible when the EU is very willing to subordinate member countries’ economic wellbeing to “greenhouse gas” targets (see http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/54bbf1b0-c243-11dc-8fba-0000779fd2ac,noOfParas=2,emailFormat=plainText,storyType=ultralight,dwp_uuid=ebe33f66-57aa-11dc-8c65-0000779fd2ac,print=no.html)?

If the EU taxes or levies your putative oil exports out of economic viability, what’s the fallback option? Especially since your European friends show little deep-rooted taste for pro-business reforms (see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1061-1823265,00.html) or encouraging world-beating competitive companies (see http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120053154686996085.html)?

Remember: your population is ageing at a rate of knots (see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/01/24/do2402.xml), so your public expenditure will increase exponentially in years to come in health, aged care and welfare – given the above, probably faster than your revenue base could EVER expand.

In short, what is an independent Scotland going to do for money in the long term?
35

Andrew Ireland,

Blackrock 22/01/2008 09:26:38
Farewell then Peter Macmahon, alas we knew him too well as the ex-Labour hack. Fine on the opinion pages but too much to hope he might be replaced in his political coverage by someone objective?

Macmahon - "Scots do not want to end the Union" - so why are you scared to let them vote on it?

AM2 #20 - when are you going to give up arguing about opinion polls? - let the people vote - try putting your energies into being in favour of something? maybe the glorious Union with all its benefits? or Union plus? or Union lite? or whatever way you think you can dress it up to make more attractive our continued subsidy of the English economy, support for illegal wars, lack of voice in Europe etc


36

Linda,

Edinburgh 22/01/2008 09:27:10
Thought Peter McMahon was going to stick to Business rather than political matters in future.

Hope he is less partisan when writing about Royal Bank prospects as opposed to HBOS.
37

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 22/01/2008 09:35:58
Bye Peter. Let's hope your replacement has a non-partisan outlook, unlike yours.
38

Calum10,

22/01/2008 09:37:09
re: "The test for the other political parties is, if anything, greater. They must find a way of demonstrating both that devolution can evolve – more power for Holyrood seems inevitable now – and make a convincing case for the retention of a United Kingdom." - Peter McMahon.

Here is another person who can't tell the diffrence between the Union of the Crowns (1603) and the Act of the Union (1707). Get rid of the Act of the Union and Great Britain is no more but the UK remains. This how the UK operated for over 100 years, independent states of Scotland and England with separate legislatures but with the same monarch.

What fools Unionists are!
39

inkster,

22/01/2008 09:38:23
Linda #48 and 46 wardog was correct and superbly concise in his post when #44 Peter MacMahon commented in his new role as Freeland, The New World which is of course a Kiwi supermarket.
40

Peeablo,

Brownistan 22/01/2008 09:51:58
#40 Subrosa

Good comment! I know exactly what you mean, and unlike AM2 I do not use such quotes either. They are just playground ignorants who know no better. Nothing to do with politics.

AM2 grow up, you'll get more respect and better debate.
41

Doh,

22/01/2008 09:53:42
I still dont beleive that any new constitutional settlement can be long lasting unless both the Scots and English have their own parliaments with broadly similar powers.

The debate should be what those powers are and what powers are reserved for the federal parliament - or federal sessions of the Westminster parliament.

42

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 10:07:54
#12 Mr AM2.

Ahem, for your reference:


'We English, who are a marvellous people, are really very generous to Scotland.'

Margaret Thatcher in the Times, 12 February 1990.



Here's one Scot that wants to modify the Union out of existence.

Now remember people on last nights Newsnicht, Jackie the Hutt decreed that Paul Green's donation to the WENDY campaign, wasn't illegal...it was merely 'impermissible'.

43

gus1940,

Edinburgh 22/01/2008 10:10:29
Yet another example of a headline consisting of opinion not fact in what purports to be a serious newspaper.

You even omitted the quotation marks round it - another step down the slippery slope to journalistic oblivion.
44

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 22/01/2008 10:30:02
#7, AM2

I think the problem I have with many of the posts accusing SNP supporters of being Nazis etc., and they are not just your posts, is that it takes a minority as being the norm and attempts to smear everyone else by association.

I have no truck with gene-pool nationalists of either sort, Scottish or British; since I am convinced that identity is not based solely on genetics. I have said before to one poster on these threads - Royster - that decision-making is not genetic. I also tire of the rhetoric that comes from some nationalist quarters that blames 'the English'. However, I am not deterred from my belief in independence just because of a few wrong-headed individuals. I have known people in the Labour Party and the Conservative Party over the years who have similiarly shocked me with their racist, prejudiced views. It strikes me, however, that you desire to stick to the view that in this supporters of independence are unique.
45

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 22/01/2008 10:53:38
Leaving aside whether one supports independence or simply greater autonomy, it is evident that there needs a referendum on these matters.

Those parties denying a referendum are treating the democratic process and the electorate in general with utter contempt. Its exactly parallelled with Brown refusing any democratic voice on Europe.

These parties/individuals despise democracy and believe in government by 'elite' only. Apparently everyone else is too thick to understand the issues, and 'you never know the plebs might make the wrong decision'.

Personally I'm fed up with this arrogance from political parties, who are in general filled with low intelligent career politicians, who are incapable of intelligent decision making in any case. Give me the 'plebs'.
46

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 10:55:16
Meths, I think a 'sleight' arises when your pal doesn't give you a shot on his sledge.
47

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 10:55:27
Jings, Ayrshire Scot puts AM2 to the sword again! Will he recover and start boring the t*ts aff us again wi aw his mind numbing statistics and dodgy poll results?
48

TSynicto the core,

Bellshill.Saltireland 22/01/2008 10:56:39
Special adviser to disgraced Our Henry? I'd have kept quiet about that,Peter.
The Union was forced on Scotland by English threats, bribes,blackmail and every other dirty trick in the book, not to mention a Scottish king who, having tired of the available Scottish female talent, sold his country for access to fresh English courtesans.
49

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22/01/2008 10:56:49
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50

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 22/01/2008 10:59:23
Off to the business desk with you Peter. Will you be working for Gordon again?

BTW, no-one ever said you can't be a unionist and a patriot - that was always just a propaganda mind-trick. What is true is that for whatever reason unionists tend to behave very unpatriotically.

I tell you this. The fact that we are in a union makes me less of a patriot than a lot of tories. However my patriotism has nothing to do with my nationalism. The latter is far more important to me and many other thinking Scots.
51

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 22/01/2008 11:26:38
I don't think PMcM will be missed. Let's hope he is replaced by someone with a more balanced approach to journalism.

We are approaching a crossroads in our national life and political future. The polls serve more to confuse than enlighten. The question is will the people of Scotland be satisfied with more powers for the parliament or will it be a further stepping stone to independence? So we are still in the same position we were during the devolution debate, you either believe extended devolution will be enough or you don't. George (Lord) Robertson famously expounded that devolution would kill the SNP stone dead, well he was wrong, so who knows if more devolution will do the trick. Even 'Eck knows he'd lose a referendum on independence if it was held tomorrow. But there is a growing sense of confidence in Scotland and nationalism will grow with it. The Unionist parties are inept and seem incapable of putting forward a coherent case for the continuation of the Union beyond scaremongering and empty rhetoric of the 'union dividend' and 'we're stronger together' sort.

#42 Michael. 'The bald truth is that most Scots are either hostile or indifferent to the Union and hesitant about independence.'

That is spot on. We'll see how things change in the coming years.
52

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 11:28:27
7. Another one for you to add to your list:

YouGov: 30 Mar 07

Independence 28% - Devolution 51%

9. Pathetic. I never said that. I have said "the SNP are a bunch of whiners"...maybe you meant that? "The SNP are a bunch of whiners"?

Actually, I think I really said "The SNP are a bunch of whingers", that is "WHINGERS". So you got that wrong too.

32. Once again, that figure of £236bn is an estimate of overall revenue (incl all income for all the oil companies). Taxes would be a far smaller figure than that!

37. The latest poll shows the SNP losing support on all counts.

46. All oil & gas production amounts to just ~2.5% of the UK economy. Private schooling is a bigger industry!

(Good to see the nats are continuing to rely on making quotes/stats up to try to win an argument!)

52. And to compare - The UK receives the highest amount of inward investment in Europe and is second in the world. The UK actually receives more inward investment than China (in 2005, UK received $160bn, China $70bn).
The UK is also the largest EU investor overseas and the second largest in the world - more than Germany, France and even Japan.
53

Ananurhing,

22/01/2008 11:31:57
For me the independence argument has always been about economics, and the fact that westminster has serially lied to the Scottish people regarding their economic viability.
For a nation that perceives itself as such, independence is a natural state of existence. A convincing argument needs to be made for any other "special arrangement". That argument has not even been offered, never mind won. I hold no truck with the "Wha's like us" brigade, yet have been accused of being an "ultra nat" and a "narrow minded bigot" on these pages by AM2 and others. Desperate tactics.

This is an unusually circumspect article by McMahon. Who will replace him as political editor? Have his masters finally decided that he does their argument more harm than good? Interesting that the day he writes of his shift from arch defender of the union, to the business brief, the markets tumble. Poisoned chalice, or kiss of death? Either way he seems to have an anti Midas touch.
The UK economy, which is geared for the money lenders, the multi national grocers, and an over inflated housing market, is sinking fast. Scotland needs to take control of its assets before it's too late.
54

John S,

22/01/2008 11:32:24
#18 and #19 - Can I join your list ? English go home.
55

Alan B,

22/01/2008 11:33:05
Most of the article comes across as wishful thinking. More devolution works 2 ways. 1) less need for independence 2)less reason not to have independence.

The unionist position always ends up with fear stories over huge deficits. Even the tories seemed embarrassed by labours position before the election. If fiscal autonomy or fiscal federalism is introduced, abolishing the Barnett formula much of the fear will be removed. No longer will we have falsehoods about our fiscal position. Over the years the unionist parties have not put forward a positive reason for Britain but relied on a fear agenda.

While unionist supporters push the idea that scotland does not want independence showing opinion polls showing scotland actually wanting more devolution. About 70%-80% want more powers for SP. Some people like myself would like more powers for the SP as a stepping stone to independence. It seems to me a good idea to have fiscal autonomy as a first step for a variety of reasons.




56

kimba,

22/01/2008 11:37:11
AYRSHIRESCOT. STOP USING SOUND BITES TO STRENGHEN YOUR CASE.
57

Colkitto,

River Clyde 22/01/2008 11:39:55
P McM follows the latest unionist line by telling us what we want. Lost count the number of times unionist politicians say "Most Scots don't want independence"
Most Scots (80%) want a referendum.
Instead of telling us what we want, let us decide for ourselves !
58

kimba,

22/01/2008 11:40:05
70.If we do,can you take the Tartan Raj with you,
59

,

22/01/2008 11:40:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
60

kimba,

22/01/2008 11:40:18
*Please enter your comment*
61

Ananurhing,

22/01/2008 11:45:03
KIMBA, STOP MURDERING THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!
62

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA GU BRATH 22/01/2008 11:45:33
Here are some Anti-Scottish negative examples that helped the SNP into power:
4 AM2,Glasgow 11/04/2007 23:42:04
What effect could uncertainty following an SNP win have?

Upbeat,12/04/2007 08:16:24
There is a concern that moves towards Independence might trigger a slide in Scottish houseprices. The housing market is fickle. It only needs a general perception that Independence will cause property prices to fall, and it will happen.

This of course says little about the many thousands of expats and others who have holiday homes here in Scotland. Perhaps they would also question the sense of maintaining their homes here once the way that property taxes ( Council Tax, business tax WHY ?) are levied, leads to instability. This could undermine their willingness to continue with their investment here..

76 The Strategist,12/04/2007 16:56:40
Actually given that independence will make Scotland a much more attractive place to do business than the rest of the UK there is a real risk of an increase in demand for houses in Scotland as more people move North.

That of course could push house prices even higher.


79 AM2,Glasgow 12/04/2007 19:09:45
#76 Dick

You've got to be kidding!

Long term, of course, that may turn out to be the case. Who knows?

But if by the night of 4th May the SNP look to have gained the most seats there's a high chance that a very significant number of houses will go on the market within days. Under those circumstances, I think we could see a significant price slump very quickly indeed.


84 AM2,Glasgow 12/04/2007 19:59:38
#81 Dick

I agree a "mass exodus" is unlikely in the event of an SNP win but I would expect there to be sufficient numbers to create a perception. Sometimes perception is reality, and the housing market is irrational that way.

Remember this Scotsman story from a few days ago?
http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=510822007

"ONE of Scotland's leading financial businessmen has warned of the dang
63

HEN BROON 5,

22/01/2008 11:46:02
"ONE of Scotland's leading financial businessmen has warned of the dangers of

independence, particularly for homeowners... Mr Spowart said house prices in Scotland

could fall..."

The Scottish Daily Mail ran a front-page article on this a week or so ago. Apparently

property guru Frank Knight had written to the SNP expressing concerns about the housing

market. I can't find it on the Daily Mail's website but unsurprisingly Labour picked up

on it:
http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/snphammerblowforfamilies/

The point is: whether or not these concerns are well-founded is in a sense immaterial.

The market could drop anyway, just on the perception.

THE REALITY IS THE MARKET BOOMED AS WEALTHY SCOTS RETURNED HOME, THANKS GUYS YOU ARE

DOING A GREAT JOB.

64

HEN BROON 5,

22/01/2008 11:47:09
76 The Strategist,12/04/2007 16:56:40
Actually given that independence will make Scotland a much more attractive place to do business than the rest of the UK there is a real risk of an increase in demand for houses in Scotland as more people move North.

That of course could push house prices even higher.




















WELL DONE YOU CALLED IT RIGHT :o)
65

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 11:49:32
75. Are you on medication?

Nothing that you write ever makes sense or has any connection to any previous post.

What is the point?
66

kimba,

22/01/2008 11:50:54
75,you want to talk about Ireland,bring it on, how a guy burgled a house and was made to walk up the falls road with "I am a thief" wrote on his front and back,then shot at point blank range by the IRA,police new nothing until the murder,and some scots support this.
67

,

22/01/2008 11:52:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
68

Sgurr,

22/01/2008 11:53:21
test
69

Sgurr,

22/01/2008 11:56:21
Some real idiots post on here, so one more won't harm anyone! :)

Kimba - are you actively trying to be the most absurd contributor to the forum? Calm down man!
70

Nikostratos,

22/01/2008 11:56:36
#81 for him at 75

drugs such as haloperidole (Haldol), zuclopenthioxol (Cisordinol), perphenazin (Trilafon), alimemazin (Theralen) and chlorpromazine (Hibernal). These drugs are effective primarily against positive symptoms of schizophrenia such as hallucinations and formal thought disturbances. They thus have a good preventing effect against relapse of psychosis. At high doses, side effects are common. These include the so-called extrapyramidal symptoms such as tremor, muscle stiffness and unintended movements, as well as an experience of unrest and inability to be still. Often a low dose where no side effects are seen is sufficient for a good effect.


71

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 11:59:20
Kimba,

You're a bit spikey this morning? What's up, did you accidently shrink your KKK outfit in the wash?
72

kimba,

22/01/2008 11:59:37
85. '
point 1, I am not a man.
point 2, the article at 82,was reported by radio 4 on the 20/1/08.
73

kimba,

22/01/2008 11:59:56
*Please enter your comment*
74

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 12:00:03
80. Did you read the bottom of my post 80?

The UK receives more foreign investment than any other country in Europe and is only second in the world.
(In 2005, the UK was the top investment location.)
The UK receives more foreign investment than China.

Yet the nationalists confidently guarantee that this can be bettered. Based on what?

75

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:01:17
87,AJ. WHAT'S UP,TRUTH NOT TO YOUR LIKING!
76

,

22/01/2008 12:03:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
77

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 12:03:40
90. Yeah, that should read "...bottom of my post 68".
78

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:04:44
AJ. HAVE YOU HEARD FROM Mr Palmer,aka magic hoops, or there again he has a law suit to contend with!
79

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 12:04:53
Kimba,

Are you at last admitting to being a racist?
80

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:06:15
92. that's real funny for a scot,grow up,you pathetic creton.
81

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:09:59
AJ.RACIST,NAW, PROTECTING MY SISTER AND I FROM THIS WEIGHTIST PIG,YES.
82

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:11:41
92. JUST E-MAILED YOUR COMMENT TO MY SOLICITOR,CAN YOU AFFORD A LAW SUIT!
83

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 12:17:03
Kimba! Calm down, for crying out loud. You'll blow a fuse!

Why are you so very, very angry?!

(Whatever it is, it could be worse. You could be one of these deluded numpties for starters.)
84

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 12:18:51
Kimba#94,

The last I heard Magic was on a hot air balloon heading for Morroco. That was the effect you had on him!!!
85

Ananurhing,

22/01/2008 12:22:07
Nice to see EV alligning himself with Kimba.
STRENGHENS IN NUMBERS!
I'm sure she could eat one of these deluded numpties for starters.
86

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:23:35
103,WHY AM I SO ANGRY. WELL LET ME SEE, Scotland gets drugs we in England can't get, our students have to pay £3,500,FOR A EDUCATION,AND TO CAP IT ALL, our elderly folk, have to sell their homes to get cared for,and you ask why am I angry...
87

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 12:24:07
I can't believe that little fact myself but it is true.

The UK actually receives more foreign investment than China...which I thought was the destination of choice nowadays! You always hear about companies opening factories all over China, you see the skyscrapers going up in Shanghai, you hear about China taking up half the world's steel.....and then it turns out that more companies are spending more money in the UK!




Is it just me that finds this amazing then?
88

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:24:34
104, LOL,he's seen nothing yet!
89

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 12:26:50
Kimba,

Who or what is a Weightist Pig? Are you referring to our fine Boys in Blue - if so you could be deep doodah!
90

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:27:08
102,meths,please shut up,when you are in the uk,you can comment,and who asked for your opinion!
91

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:28:08
109,you now full fine well I refer to mr palmer.
92

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 12:30:40
Kimba,

There seems to be an inference on this board that you're rather rotund. Are you one of those people who have to be rescued from their bedrooms by demolishing a wall?

Maybe that's why Magic didn't take you on his Airship flight - it needed to take off in the first place!
93

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:32:49
ENGLISH VOICE, WHY DON'T YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT ENLANDS LACK OF EQUALITY,IS IT RIGHT THAT SCOTLAND GETS FREE PRESCIPTIONS,AND FREE ELDERLY CARE.
94

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:34:18
112,BUT YOU DO NOT LIVE IN THE UK,END OF STORY!
95

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 12:35:02
89. Should that not just read *please enter*?
96

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:35:44
115. OH,COME ON,YOU KNOW FULL FINE WELL,MR PALMER,AKA MAGIC HOOPS.
97

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 12:37:05
115 Meths

(suppresses laugh) - he is someone Kimba's "lawyers" have serveda "summons" on for calling her fat on her. So Kimba says. I think she is suing him for inexactitude - he should have said morbidly obese.

Is a wonder Kimba's lawyers didn't get those people that wrote "SNP" on her boyfriend's head in blue biro.
98

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 12:38:35
108. He's seen nothing yet? I have heard that on a clear day mount Kimba can be seen from Fife. AJ, how is the weather today?
99

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 12:40:06
Mr Palmer...mmm would that be Harry, Geoffrey or Carl?

#102 Nice to see English Whine trying to calm down the KIMBA, feller your heart is in the right place, it's most munificent of you to help poor KIMBA who appears to be less fortunate than yourself.

Oh incidentally as you seem to enjoy throwing polls around. here's one for you...

'The SNP has opened up an eleven-point gap over Labour in Scotland, the biggest Nationalist lead ever recorded over their rivals by a mainstream polling organisation.'

http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.1884648.0.0.php
100

The Strategist,

22/01/2008 12:40:12
#107 AnEnglishVoice..

This isn't a mystery and is due to a number of reasons none of which we should be very proud off.

Firstly there has been a huge sell off of UK companies to overseas owners and secondly, because the UK invests so little in its own industry we are seen as offering little or no competition in a wide range of mainly high technology sectors.

Secondly, a lot of that foreign investment has been by financial services type companies and bearing in mind that in fact most of the large companies in the City are already foreign owned then it seems natural they'll increase investment here.

There's also a third reason though and that is that we are actually very good at R&D but very poor at commercialising it. So a lot of overseas companies tend to take advantage of our lack of opportunism - which is mainly due to a dirth of risk equity capital - and set up new operations here. A good example is the US drug company Wyeth which last year did a deal with three Scottish universities and Scottish Enterprise to commercialise a number of R&D project outcomes and is setting up a very well funded operation here in Scotland specifically to do that.
101

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:40:24
119. Cute,that was nearly funny,but as usual you failed to reach climax!
102

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:41:51
123,neither,Brian.smart a-se.
103

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:43:35
122,please laugh your self silly,palmer won't be,hehehe.
104

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:46:58
121. please carry on posting,you are making my case against Brian Palmer water tight, as all your comments are posted to my solicitors.
105

,

22/01/2008 12:48:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
106

BMeister,

22/01/2008 12:48:50
#106 Kimba
If you are angry at the services in England why not direct your anger more usefully by having a go at your local council and/or MP, possibly push for an English parliament rather than ranting and giving racist abuse just because we have things that you would like?
107

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:49:44
128. christ,an eleven point lead,but the majority of scots want to stay in the union,so that's cr-p.
108

,

22/01/2008 12:52:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
109

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:54:48
132, what you seem to forget is we have the scottish raj,as of such,until the people of England rise up and dispell these simpletons we have no choice, BUT, the time is near,and god help Brown and co.
110

BMeister,

22/01/2008 12:55:56
133 Kimba
'an eleven point lead,but the majority of scots want to stay in the union,so that's cr-p.'

Not so, surely it's a recognition of the fact that the SNP have done quite well over the last few months and that the other parties (apart from the Tories I would say) have continued to be poor.
111

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:56:28
134. yes, please report me,and then my solicitor will have the scotsmans life, go ahead!
112

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:57:26
137. 51% want to stay in the union.
113

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:58:33
Ayrshirescot. you are p-ssing in the wind.
114

BMeister,

22/01/2008 12:58:37
134 AS
I understand your irritation but I am reluctant to report her for a cuple of reasons
1. I think she does more harm than good to the unionist cause.
2. I find her funny.



115

Gtj,

Dundee 22/01/2008 12:58:44
"Scots do not want to end the Union, merely modify it" - Speak for yourself!
116

kimba,

22/01/2008 12:59:33
140.no, but I live in the uk,you do not.
117

kimba,

22/01/2008 13:00:55
142. please report me, or are you chicken,or a hoops fan.
118

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 13:01:29
Not THE Brian Palmer who posted this photograph on his website?


http://tinyurl.com/2f7tn7

Jings and indeed crivvens it that truly you, KIMBA?

119

BMeister,

22/01/2008 13:01:55
135 Kimba
I assume you meant expel.

The 'Scottish Raj' as you put it, surely strengthens the case for you to aim for an English parliament rather than diminish it as you would then have government of the English, for the English, by the English, and not us pesky Scots.

Are you actually a supporter of English and Scottish independence?
120

kimba,

22/01/2008 13:03:21
147. thank you,another insult to add to my case.
121

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:03:22
147 Meths

if the latter, I hope Kimba is very rich, or her 'Hoopsgate' law suit may not be sustainable...
122

Ananurhing,

22/01/2008 13:03:37
135#Kimba

"Dispell"? Is that intentional mispelling? as of such.
123

BMeister,

22/01/2008 13:03:52
141 Kimba
'Ayrshirescot. you are p-ssing in the wind.'

If Magic Hoops is indeed in a balloon the surely he is the one who is passing in the wind.
124

kimba,

22/01/2008 13:04:04
153. I get legal aid,lol.
125

Miss H,

22/01/2008 13:04:34
Ho hum, more of the same.

Let’s look at the trend over the past few decades. Whichever way you look at it, it is towards greater self government, greater autonomy, a decision making process which is increasingly separate from the UK.

So the direction we are going in is clear enough.

I understand the argument that Scots do not want to end the Union – they just want to make it work better. I understand that because if I was a unionist I would be making that argument myself. But it is basically rubbish.

I suppose we could make a case for maintaining some form of political link between the Scottish Parliament and Westminster and sharing certain services. Perhaps we could have something like a UK Grand Committee where members of Parliament from all member states legislate in particular areas. I am not against that and if people wanted to say yes OK we still have some kind of Union then I don’t mind that either.

Maybe this is the direction we in the SNP should be thinking in – what concessions can we give the unionists right now to keep them happy? The monarchy is one – I don’t mind letting them have the monarchy. I am sure there are others. Can’t think of any right now. How about the DVLA? Or, I don’t know, regulation of pet shops. Of course there is also the crossover with EU legislation.

But it would be an interesting exercise if we all – unionist as well as nationalists – sat down and worked out what we would be happy for UK legislation to cover and what we want national legislation for.
126

,

22/01/2008 13:04:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
127

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:07:18
156. Can you get legal aid for retention of chips? Would a a subsidy to a Weight Watcher's meeting not be better value for the taxpayer?
128

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 13:08:44
#159 the correct term is 'enabler', dear boy.
129

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:10:25
164 from today's Herald......

The SNP has opened up an eleven-point gap over Labour in Scotland, the biggest Nationalist lead ever recorded over their rivals by a mainstream polling organisation.

The surge can only be explained by the performance of the Salmond government and the troubles of Wendy Alexander's Holyrood opposition.

In August YouGov asked the standard voting intention questions for a Sunday newspaper and found that Labour and the SNP were deadlocked at 32% each, around the level of the outcome of last May's election.

On exactly the same polling method, the latest YouGov poll shows that the Nationalists have stretched their lead to 11%. I
130

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 13:11:41
123. That's not the YouGov poll that's on the YouGov website!

http://www.yougov.com/uk/archives/pdf/2008%2001%2017%20Scottish%20Daily%20Express%20toplines.pdf

Are the SNP doctoring the results??

Kimba, regarding free prescriptions etc. in Scotland - that's the nature of devolution. If we want that in England, we need to vote in the party that will provide that. I'm against an expensive welfare state that Scotland prefers as it stifles economic growth and encourage welfare dependency. Both problems that Scotland suffers from - and blames the UK for!

Personally, I would prefer lower taxes so I can decide for myself how I spend my salary and how I prepare for ill health, unemployment and my pension.

If Salmond genuinely wants to encourage economic growth, may I suggest he spends a little less and cuts income tax instead?
131

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 13:13:53
#166 Hold me back. Which one is the KIMBA?

Actually I retract that, we should not condemn the KIMBA because she mainlines pies. I apologise wholeheartedly, if KIMBA says she's not obese then that's good enough for me, and I feel like a right Gene Hunt for picking on her obesity real or imagined.

As to her mentalist dribblings then fair enough tear in.
132

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 13:14:32
Ayrshire,

The weather is jist dandy ower here.

Mt Kimba has accumulations of snow on its summit...or is it dandruff? However, the caving possibilities are endless, but care must be taken when entering the various cavernous dark pits. No man has survived the toxic substances that abound within Mt Kimba.

So Ayrshire.....wee wendy has got aff wi it?
133

EWB,

UK 22/01/2008 13:19:11
When it's time and independence comes, the sun won't shine any brighter and there will still be problems. Of course, the disaffected will say: Ah weel, it'll tak' 300 hundred years tae pit richt a' thae problems inflicted by English rule."

It's just like new Labour, who continue to blame the Tories and their 18 years of misrule for their present-day failures.

In the aftermath of independence, Scot Nats will be able to swap England for the EU and blame Brussels for Scotland's subsequent woes.
134

Ananurhing,

22/01/2008 13:20:02
106#Kimba

What 168#AM2 said was,
Nothing you can do about it. That's devolution for you.
Isn't this what you want for your own country? Shut up! You're not helping!
135

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:20:49
176 Aj

well, the Wendy sleaze-bucket has got off with deliberately leaking her donor's list - a reprimand from the Information commissioner.

No news yet on her other alleged sleaze:
- using her parliamentary office for party fund raising
- the dodgy trsnsfer of £40k in allowances to "Computers for Labour"
- the Green illegal donation
- the cover up of the Green donation using CPS
- the intention to use false names for other donations.
136

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:23:59
172

Nye Bevan - "Tories are lower than vermin"

G'....ordon Brown pauses to admire his photo of Bevan, whom he describes as one of Labour's most inspirational leaders....'(The independent)

Ergo, Brown thinks Tories are lower than vermin?
137

BMeister,

22/01/2008 13:24:04
156 Kimba
'153. I get legal aid,lol.'

Not for defamation you don't.

Unless that is you ae contending that your case is one of extremely wide public interest or that it is equivalent to the McLibel case ( the imbalance of resources is similar to that of a normal citizen vs a corporation the size of MacDonalds).

I would check with your purported lawyer before you start as you will be going through the higher courts for defamation and this is very expensive.
138

kimba,

22/01/2008 13:24:11
AM2.168, ARE WE NOT STILL A UNION,DEVOLUTION OR NOT WE STILL DESERVE THE SAME MEDICAL TREATMENT,IF NOT,THEN YES, I WILL VOTE FOR A FOR OUR OWN GOVERNMENT.
139

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 13:24:56
177. There's no sign whatsoever of the SNP offering a cut in public spending (in fact they have complained that they haven't got enough money hence the broken promises) so what makes you think that independence will lead to a cut?

So, no, I don't agree. If anything, I expect spending and taxes to rise should Scotland become independent.

And as the SNP's own accounts rely heavily on oil taxes, I would also expect a public spending crisis as the oil starts to run out.

I hope that answers your question. I expect to be thoroughly misquoted within the hour...
140

BMeister,

22/01/2008 13:25:01
or just give up the idea that you will be able litigate without funding it.
141

Busymale,

Inside AM2's office at Labour Party HQ 22/01/2008 13:26:07
THE LABOUR PARTY IS ABUSING THIS FORUM! IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR READERS INTEREST RATHER THAN THE POSTING OF PARTY POLITICAL PROPAGANDA.

FOR SOMEONE WHO CLAIMS NO AFFILIATION HOW COME HE HAS A BANK FULL OF STATISTICS AND APPEARS ON THIS FORUM EVERY DAY?

IMAGINE VOTING FOR SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE THE CONFIDENCE TO TELL US THE TRUTH!
142

kimba,

22/01/2008 13:27:30
12. I am in England, and mr palmer posted my photo with my sister on it without our consent, by English law this is a criminal offence.
143

BMeister,

22/01/2008 13:27:43
183 Kimba
Yes we are still a union but no, the medical teatment is not the same as this is a devolved issue. England's decisions are made at Westminster, Scotland's at Holyrood.

I now expect you to become a campaigner for a separate English government.
144

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:28:52
162 and as Kimba is actually fat, there is no defamation involved (unless it is not fat she is retaining, but wax or some other substance)
145

kimba,

22/01/2008 13:29:10
187. you could,nt take it.
146

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:29:33
188. Kimba, may I ask you a question?
147

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:30:51
189 Is that 25,000 lbs or kilos?
148

kimba,

22/01/2008 13:31:17
192. lol, he posted my pic without consent,and that of my sister,what part are you not getting.
149

BMeister,

22/01/2008 13:31:50
188 Kimba
However you appear to be operating under the misapprehension that anybody who insults you is then adding to this case.

If it's a criminal case then your access to legal aid is irrelevant as it's for the PF or CPS to prosecute.
150

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:32:04
196. no he didn't. please provide the link to this post - you must have provided it your lawyer (sound of white coats flapping)
151

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 13:32:26
#188 KIMBA

Until we see the evidence of this photo and your sister, how can we take anything you say without a bucket full of salt?

Please to be pointing us in the direction of this photo so that we can judge for ourselves whether Hoops did you a grave injustice or was merely helping out Greenpeace.
152

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 13:33:07
187. Surely you would prefer actual facts over the vacuous fact-free nonsense that emanates from the nats? For people to be able to make an informed opinion, you really do need boths sides of the argument.

True, the nationalist element are yet to provide anything of any substance whatsoever...but we patiently wait nonetheless.
153

,

22/01/2008 13:33:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
154

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA GU BRATH.... 22/01/2008 13:34:14
149 AM2,Glasgow,UK 22/01/2008 13:01:39
#63 AJ Fife
#65 Hen Broon

"It never ceases to amaze me that some people think insults such as Ayrshire Scot’s can win a debate. His copious charges against me are both vulgar and trumped up. Yet you think that’s him “skewering” me, putting me “to the sword” etc. This only serves to indicates your mindset. Please carry on (it’s quite amusing) but I’ll just stick to the facts – not half as entertaining, but infinitely more convincing."


So does your concept of sticking to the facts include your sneering postings before the election in which you and several of your odious henchmen tried to engender fear in Scottish homeowners.... MY POST AT #78 HEN BROON 5,ALBA GU BRATH 22/01/2008 11:45:33... You are now so bitter and paranoid that you just cannot let it go even when your negative posturing and propaganda has been thrown back in your nasty unionist face.
Ayrshire has you skewered alright otherwise you would not be replying to me and wriggling like a maggot on a hook, ( what a wonderfull spectacle,) you are but a sad empty vessel. Empty vessels make the most noise and you do that for sure. Skewered, filleted and smoked, you are history thanks be to God.

GOD BLESS ALEX SALMOND AND THE SNP. ALBA GU BRATH.
155

kimba,

22/01/2008 13:36:25
191,AM2, so it's ok for people in the north-east to die because they can't get the treatment,a cancer patient in teesside died because he could not get the treatment he required, he moved to scotland but they refused to treat him,because he came from England.
156

HEN BROON 5,

22/01/2008 13:38:03
http://www.onejerusalem.com/2005/11/02/kimba-the-pug/


Explains every thing!
157

kimba,

22/01/2008 13:39:04
201. thank you, you have just brought yourself a law suit,keep it coming!
158

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 13:39:37
Will someone please clarify why the SNP's press release on the YouGov poll has different results from the YouGov website?

The Herald has the SNP trumpeting an 11% lead but YouGov only shows a 9% lead - down 1% on the previous poll.

Herald: "The latest YouGov poll shows that the Nationalists have stretched their lead to 11%. It showed 40% of voters would opt for the SNP at a Holyrood election against only 29% for Labour."

YouGov:
SNP 38%
Labour 29%
http://www.yougov.com/uk/archives/pdf/2008%2001%2017%20Scottish%20Daily%20Express%20toplines.pdf
159

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:40:04
206 ROTFL.

What is the lawsuit going to be about, oh deranged one?
160

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:40:49
207 so we can all agree the SNP is still massively ahead, and recording historic leads over Labour?
161

HEN BROON 5,

22/01/2008 13:40:52
203 kimba,22/01/2008 13:36:25


Did the person that refused this treatment have SNP written in block capitals in biro on his forehead. Thought so, it's lucky he wasn't eaten alive.

Do you not have some windows to lick?
162

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:41:34
206 "keep it coming!" said Kimba to the waiter circulating with glasses of warmed lard
163

HEN BROON 5,

22/01/2008 13:42:24
207 An English Voice™,22/01/2008 13:39:37


AM2 PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION.
164

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:42:56
210 Hen

unfair....Kimba. didn't actually specifiy if they wrote "SNP" on her boyfriend's head in capitals or lower case....

Which was it Kimba? And did someone read it for you?
165

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 13:43:03
207 Sorry, the latest poll has the SNP down 2%.

My mistake. Very sorry.
166

kimba,

22/01/2008 13:43:38
199.My solicitor has the photo posted on the internet by B. Palmer, that is proof enough,as well as all the comments posted on this site,and others.
167

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:44:31
216 Kimba

can you give us the link to the post where the photo of your was posted, or the date at least? Otherwise we might think you are just making this up.....
168

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:45:34
215 but still massively ahead of Laboru and still recording at their highest ever level of support?
169

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 13:47:05
218. Yep, that makes sense.

They are down 2% but are "still recording at their highest ever level of support".

Maths is not your strong point is it.
170

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 13:48:30
AM2 PlEasE tO bE AnsweRing tHe KIMbA's quesIoN?????!!!!!
@ #203
171

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 13:51:47
"There is no “'Scots are simply not smart enough to run their own affairs' brigade”. Why are you misrepresenting unionists by attributing to them such an offensive view?"

You do no favours to your cause by denying that this is the case. This is frequently heard from unionists.
172

kimba,

22/01/2008 13:52:02
lol,lol,lol,lol,lol,ayrshiresot,you are so arrogant,it is about to bit you in the a-se,oh,happy day
173

kimba,

22/01/2008 13:55:28
217,wish I could,but as this is a legal case i'm afraid I am forbidden to do so.
174

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:56:19
224. Kimba

i have decided to sue you for various racist remarks, abuse, threats of violence and general harrassment.
175

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:57:23
227. I may also sue you for cruelty and abuse of thin and malnourished people - your gluttony is causing them to starve. My lawyers will in touch.
176

,

22/01/2008 13:59:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
177

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 13:59:30
227 Kimba

could you provide me with details of your primary, secondary and remedial educational estbalishments. I may wish to include them in my legal action, clearly they have failed, perhaps to the point of gross negligence and certainly to the endangerment of inncocents and pies.
178

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 14:00:29
Kimba,

Even AM2 is starting to round on you! Has it always been like this for you?
179

HEN BROON 5,

22/01/2008 14:00:37
228 Ayrshire Scot™,22/01/2008 13:56:19


These comments were, "impermisible."
180

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:01:21
225,AM2.If you are a true unionist,stop sitting on the fence,people in England and Wales are dying because of the injust medical treatments,as a matter of fairness,the whole of the uk should be treated the same.
181

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:02:17
232 AJ, cruel to use the word "round" in a post to the circular one...

228 Hen. LOL. Indeed, next time I am stopped for speeding or such I will educate the polcie using the Jackie Baillie defense that my actions were merely "impermissable", not illegal.
182

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:03:06
235 Yes, people all over the UK should die due to "injust" medical treatemnt. Fairness for all!
183

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 14:04:06
You know I get no greater pleasure in life than standing at the Border turning back English cancer victims trying to weasel their way into OUR healthcare system.

For some people like Kimba, it's eating a Tunnocks Teacake whole, without removing the wrapper, AM2 I led to believe harbours guilty pleasures from watching ethnic minority wolfbagging videos, whereas for me it's a stern reproach and the wiggling eyebrows that send many an English cancer sufferer back over the border with their catheter bag betwixt their legs.
184

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:06:37
231. with pleasure, contact my solicitor for any details you may require, Judith Ronin
70, norton road
stockton-on-tees,
TS19-OJG.
185

Ananurhing,

ON A JAPANESE WHALING FLEET! 22/01/2008 14:07:10
Kimba, Where exactly do you live?
186

Davie08,

a basement at Edinburgh uni. 22/01/2008 14:07:12
Come on guys play nice and leave kimba alone. It is wicked to mock the afflicted and I am going to get thrown out of the library for laughing. BTW kimby babes if you get legal aid for libel in England then you are one up on us. That should cheer you up.
187

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 14:08:25
219. Just noticed that it was a November poll! I understand now.

The Herald should really put the date of the report at the top of the page. Having '22 January 08' on a Dec 07 report is quite misleading.

Anyway, while we are on the subject and in the interest of clarity and truth, let's post the LATEST poll, shall we?:

Headline vote:
Lab 36% (+4% on Nov 07)
SNP 30% (-2%)
Con 18% (-1%)
Lib Dem 12% (n/c)
Other 5% (+1%)

Constituency vote:
SNP 38% (-2%)
Labour 29% (n/c)
Conservative 14% (+1%)
Lib Dem 14% (+2%)
Other 6% (n/c)

Regional vote:
Conservative 13% (n/c)
Labour 27% (+1%)
Lib Dem 12% (-1%)
SNP 30% (-4%)
Other 18% (+3%)

Independence v Devolution/Status Quo:
Independence 27% (-1% on Mar 07)
Devolution/Status Quo 57% (+6% on Mar 07)

That's much better!
188

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 14:09:23
Well that's because you're deaf AM2, clearly.

My response to people who say that is always 'perhaps it's you who's not smart enough'.

They never have an answer to that!
189

BMeister,

22/01/2008 14:11:19
203 Kimba
'so it's ok for people in the north-east to die because they can't get the treatment,'

AM2 did not say it was OK, you asked if that was the system, it is and he summed it up quite well.

Does this mean that you are reversing your previous position where you wanted these decisions made at a more local level and that you would vote for an English parliament if that would be the result, to one where you consider that healthcare should be uniform across the whole of the UK?
190

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 14:12:49
AM2,

You're one to talk about bullying!!!! You're always having a go at us and sometimes it's hurtful Arthur, very very hurtful.

Ayrshire and Hen Broon probably hate the things they call you, but you leave them with no choice.

Anyway.....what do you really think of Kimba?
191

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:14:16
AM2, Are you for real"devolution saves lives",would you like to tell that to family who father died because he could not get treatment because he was English, you must be either heartless or stupid.
192

BMeister,

22/01/2008 14:14:57
201 AS

It's more likjel;y than her delusional paranoid ramblings.
193

Anne, Glasgow,

Edinburgh 22/01/2008 14:15:00
Jackie Baillie's performance on Newsnight Scotland was abysmal. She appeared illsuited to the debate and couldn't think on her feet. All she could do was repeate the same words someone wrote for her to say.
194

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:16:39
247, Are you a total numpty,AM2 has better manners than to tell you.
195

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:20:48
250. Delusional, the only people who suffer this condition are the SNP supporters,who seem to think Independence is about to happen sooner rather than later,poor s-ds.
196

Sgurr,

22/01/2008 14:20:56
Kimba - ok, you might be female, but either way, you come across as an obnoxious moron. You must know you are making yourself look stupid - why do you do it?
197

BMeister,

22/01/2008 14:23:38
#216 Kimba
'.My solicitor has the photo posted on the internet by B. Palmer, that is proof enough'

Proof that someone or other posted a picture. Could have been yourself for all you care.
Leaves a few loose ends though, who posted it, where from, what was the IP address, whose pc has that IP address (if any, it could have been disposed of by now), if Magic Hoops did it then is Magic Hoops indeed Brian 'Coconut' Palmer, was it posted by someone who had access to 'Magic Hoops' computer without his knowledge etc. etc.
198

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:23:39
255. This is a criminal case,as of such I suggest you but out,unless you wish to be implecated.
199

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 14:24:18
I'm afraid AM2, that it is the attitude of many unionists that Scots are too feckless to run their own affairs.
We now know that the Labour party when in government during the 70s systematically supressed or falsified data so as to suggest this. Shame on them-and shame on you for turning a blind eye to this.
200

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:24:33
253 Actually Kimba, AM2 did diclose his feelings about you in a private e-mail to me. As it was private I shall not disclose the details.
201

BMeister,

22/01/2008 14:25:51
227 Kimba
'217,wish I could,but as this is a legal case i'm afraid I am forbidden to do so'

you're not Wendy Alexander are you?
202

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:26:06
259, could of been,except the spook in leith commented on the photo "MAGIC HOOPS" HAD POSTED.
203

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:26:21
260 Oh my, she is providing no end of amusement today. Roll up roll up (no, not you Kimba, you stay where you are)
204

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:27:42
AM2. PLEASE COMMENT ON POST 263.
205

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:27:53
265 Yes, he was joking. you are very amusing you sad fishy harridan. Post the link to the Hoops post with your picture? I'll post the link to a post where he declines to post your picture when asked...(general grouds of decency and not wishing to disturb our post prandial sensibilities I think with your circular lardness)
206

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:30:20
266. AMUSEMENT,oh dear, are you a lonely individual,looking for something to occupy your day.
207

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:33:01
269. please leave my sister out of this,she has a heart defect and is in poor health, you can say what you like to me but please leave her out of this.
208

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:33:09
270. I only ordered one dribbling fat deranged buffoon though. I have no idea why they 'super-sized' my order and delivered you onto our thread. I would send you back, but alas I fear renting a super-cargo container ship may be costly. Perhaps someone will do the decent thing and organise the population of a small town to come out and roll you back into the water?
209

Davie08,

a basement at Edinburgh uni 22/01/2008 14:33:13
270
I would think long and hard about that comment my dear.
210

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:35:05
271. would you like to put money where your mouth is,oh,please do!
211

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:37:36
274,why would that be,I have employment,a boyfriend, and a great social life.
212

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:39:30
278.WRONG,kenya is my sister, so fcuk off you lier.
213

Davie08,

a basement at Edinburgh uni 22/01/2008 14:43:36
282
And yet you spend an inordinate amopunt of time on here threatening all and sundry with m'learned friends when not indulging in what even the most chritable can only describe as ill informed rants. If as you say you have a full social life why should you care about some of the more ungentlemanly comments passed here? I fear you are in danger of becoming somewhat obsessive.
214

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:43:37
277. PLEASE DO, OTHERWISE I MUSY ASSUME YOU HAVE BEEN LESS THAN COMPLIMENTARY BEHIND MY BACK.
215

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:43:40
I have decided to write to the "solicitor" Kimba mention above to let her know that Kimba is using her name in connection with fictitious criminal cases, fictitious civil cases and in various threats of legal action. No business person would want there name associated with such luncay.
216

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:44:34
28. ONLY 'TIL 3.30PM.
217

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:45:35
277 I have no intention of reproducing any part of the email. Kimba is clearly a mentalist who adds nothing to discourse other than vague amusement - she should be encouraged to desist.
218

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:47:25
290. PLEASE DO, MS RONIN WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU,AS ALL YOUR NASTY,VINDICTIVE COMMENTS ARE SENT TO HER E-MAIL ANYWAY.
219

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:50:10
Kimba posted this solicitor's details and said the solicitor is acting on her behalf in a criminal case in relation to a picture of Kimba never posted

231. with pleasure, contact my solicitor for any details you may require, Judith Ronin
70, norton road
stockton-on-tees,
TS19-OJG.

Kimba has also said this soilictir served a summons on a poster in relation to the non-posted picture, and is representing Kimba in several legal actions relating to Kimba's weight.

I think it only right that people should make this solicitor aware that Kimba is purporting that this solicitor is serving summons etc in relation to these fantasies.
220

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:53:39
295 Kimba

strangely the address you gave for your "solicitor" comes up as a daycentre for the mentally impaired in Stockton on Tees.

Road Daycentre - Stockton Borough CouncilNorton Road Daycentre. Opening Times ... Location Details. Norton Road Daycentre 70 Norton Road, Stockton-on-Tees
221

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:53:55
302 Snap
222

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 14:54:24
I'm more concerned to read that AM2 and Ayrshire Scot have been communicating electronically. I suspect cyber grooming, I know for a FACT that one of them is a US Marine, the other a 12 year old girl.
223

The Second Coming,

glasgow 22/01/2008 14:54:31
That Peter MacMahon obviously knows on which side his bread is butered. What makes him think he has his finger on the pulse any more than Alex and his team? Perhaps his pro unionist spin had become too blatant even for this rag and this is why hes been reasigned! Give this rag credit: new labour does demand a modicum of restraint from its performing monkeys. The day of judgment will come for all you unionist colaborators, mark my words!
224

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:55:08
296 AM2

go ahead. I shouldn't have mentioned it and apologise. I would not reproduce any part of it. I think it was Kimba's descent into total lunacy that impaired my judgement
225

BMeister,

22/01/2008 14:56:33
#265
'259, could of been,except the spook in leith commented on the photo "MAGIC HOOPS" HAD POSTED.'

or someone using his pc or login had posted.

refer to post 269 for an example if this principal is still unclear.
226

kimba,

22/01/2008 14:56:34
AM2. Please do, but if you cannot defend the whole of the UK, then please do not utter trivial comments to one who would destroy the UK,ayrshirescot is clearly a unstable character,who's only priority is me,I seem to agitate him by telling it as it is.
227

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:57:51
311 Kimba

why is your "solicitors office" actually a day care centre in Stockton for the mentally impaired?
228

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 14:58:46
306 baggsy the Marine
229

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:00:09

Mental Health Day Service
70 Norton Road
Stockton-on-Tees Cleveland TS18 2DE
Tel: 01642 393422


Also posted by Kimba as her "solictors" suing over her weight problem.....
230

kimba,

22/01/2008 15:02:28
AYRIE SCUTTER, FUNNY, YOU HAVE JUST DISRESPECTED A SOLICITORS OFFICE,THANK YOU.
231

BMeister,

22/01/2008 15:02:44
According to Stockton council re 70 Norton Road:

'Service users are referred by their Psychiatrist, Community Mental Health Nurse, Social Worker or Occupational Therapist.'
232

Sgurr,

22/01/2008 15:03:19
kimba, can I have the name and address of your solicitor or lawyer please?
233

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:03:57
316 Kimba

everyone can Google- 70 Norton Road, Stockton (Mental Helth Day Centre) and see that it is not a "solicitors" as you claim but a drop in centre for the mentally impaired.
234

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 15:04:54
#314 Ewww you tart!

Err Kimbas legal aid jockeys post code doesn't exist.

Astonishing as it may seem, I'm inclined to believe that she's a lying sack of doo doo and for whatever self satisfactory reason gets off on having a chat room of politically minded blokes getting frustrated with her ever increasing mental dribbling. My biggest fear is that she's four fingers deep inside her mimsy as she types...Sorry I was a little bit sick in my mouth there...
235

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:04:57
318 See post 231. However, googling the address Kimba gives as her "lawyers" takes you a to a scoial services daycentre for the mentally impaired.....
236

BMeister,

22/01/2008 15:05:06
Kimba,
If it is a solicitors office could you post a picture of it, or would that constitute a criminal offence?
237

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:05:37
320 Google "Mental Health Day Centre" at the same address. ROTFL
238

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:06:15
http://www.locallife.co.uk/stockton/socialservices3.asp

70 Norton road is on the right hand column
239

kimba,

22/01/2008 15:08:29
BUT IT ALSO HAS JUDITH RONIN SOLICITORS ON THE TOP TWO FLOORS, so have your fun, while you can.
240

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:11:09
326 Kimba, strangely there is no record of a Judith Ronin Solicitors in Stockton. And a call to the Mental Health Day centre at the address you gave as your "lawyers" address confirms there is no solicitors office at the same address.

241

Sgurr,

22/01/2008 15:15:24
Has someone posted the details of their mental health day care clinic by accident? :O Well, given the posts, it is entirely consistent and probably not that unexpected. And there was me wanting to complain that I felt more stupid for having read their postings and rantings, and can I please sue for the loss of 5 IQ points...sending that to a shrink is more likely to get me locked up!
242

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:17:46
332 No. Kimba is claiming (post 240) that the address of 70 Norton Road, Stockton is her "lawyers". She is maintaining this even at post 326 when it has been established beyond all doubt that this is a social services day centre for the mentally impaired with no solicitors office.
243

kimba,

22/01/2008 15:19:17
As she has moved there recently,I don't suppose there is.
244

Sgurr,

22/01/2008 15:20:28
Sounds like a great service - hats off to them:

Staff at Norton Road make every attempt to welcome new service users into the service. Service users are referred by their Psychiatrist, Community Mental Health Nurse, Social Worker or Occupational Therapist.

Service users are fully involved in their Action Plan, identifying which activities and support best meet their needs.

Regular opportunities are available to express your views, this can be on a one-to-one basis with your named worker, at your reviews, at our information/exchange meeting (Parish notes), or via satisfaction questionnaires that are carried out.

Staff are keen to work in partnership with service users so that your time here is as beneficial and productive as possible.

You can request a benefits check to ensure you are receiving the maximum amount of benefits you are entitled to. An appeal process is in place should you feel that the amount calculated would cause you undue hardship.
245

Sgurr,

22/01/2008 15:21:58
...but doesn't sound much like a solicitors office to me...
246

HEN BROON 5,

22/01/2008 15:22:17
234 AM2,Glasgow,UK 22/01/2008 14:01:05
#230 Hen Broon

"My reply is that you are shooting your party in the foot. More please"


What a balloon you are. Pre election you and your aparatchicks indulged in negative anti-Scottish scaremongering of the most negative kind. Exactly the kind of thing that you are trying to deny ever existed because it has caused the disintegration of unionism and humiliation for Labour after 5 decades in power. To try and suggest that my comments are "shooting my party in the foot," is hysterical and further confirms how far out of touch you are with reality.
Answer my question, you coward, you do not have the guts to as you know the answer as well as I do.
Do you stand by these cowardly sneering remarks?
79 AM2,Glasgow 12/04/2007 19:09:45
#76 Dick

You've got to be kidding!

Long term, of course, that may turn out to be the case. Who knows?

But if by the night of 4th May the SNP look to have gained the most seats there's a high chance that a very significant number of houses will go on the market within days. Under those circumstances, I think we could see a significant price slump very quickly indeed.


84 AM2,Glasgow 12/04/2007 19:59:38
#81 Dick

I agree a "mass exodus" is unlikely in the event of an SNP win but I would expect there to be sufficient numbers to create a perception. Sometimes perception is reality, and the housing market is irrational that way.

Remember this Scotsman story from a few days ago?
http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=510822007
247

kimba,

22/01/2008 15:23:03
AM2. YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO THE PEOPLE OF THE UK,YOU SPEAK WITH A UNIONIST TONGUE,BUT BETRAY THE UNIONIST CASE.
248

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:23:20
334 In fact our communication related to fakes, fakery and name cloning if I rcall.
249

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:23:42
340 No.
250

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:25:40
335 Kimba. I phoned the Mental Health Day Centre. They told me there is no solicitors office in the building. Why do you persist? Anyone can google "Judith Ronin Solicitors" Stockton and see it does not exist.

And do the staff at the Mental Health Day Centre know this is how you use their computers?
251

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 15:26:22
AM2,

Aha, so you're admitting Ayrshire gets the better of you in debate!!

btw I notice you refer to a NAT1 and a NAT2 in your cosy wee e-mail. Care to spill the beans?
252

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 15:29:03
AM2,

I notice Kimba is starting to 'round' on you now!:)
253

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:30:27
349 There are several take away food shops near 70 Norton Road Mental Health Centre. The mystery of Mount Kimba is becoming clearer.....
254

kimba,

22/01/2008 15:31:36
ayrshire. if you think you are going to get the name of my solicitors,you are totally mad. lol,have a nice day
255

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:31:57
348 What gave you the impression that the SNP might have an absolute majority AM2? Were they polling c 46-47%?
256

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:33:27
356 weird that you posted the name of your solictors at 240 then isn't?, and maintained over 5 differnt posts that this was indeed a solicitors and not your day care centre. Has the tea trolley arrived at 70 Norton Road yet?
As you do appear to be an "unfortunate" I think you are best left well alone.
257

Sgurr,

22/01/2008 15:33:36
I don't get it - why would someone set up a law practice in a mental health clinic??? Strikes me as a bit odd....and what is a mental health clinic doing in the corner of a law firm???

The plot thickens...almost as much as kimba.
258

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:33:58
359 LOL. I hope Conan is a Librarian and not a day care centre patient.....
259

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:34:52
361 a google search of take-away food establishments on Norton Road, Stockton may explain both Kimba's "confusion" and her substantial girth....
260

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:36:16
"you are totally mad" Kimba posts, from 70 Norton Road Stockton. unfortunate terminology. I thought the term was "differently gifted"?
261

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:38:24
368 LOL. Perhpas Kimba has been tricked. I hope she didn't pay the patient money for these "legal services". I wonder if Kimba can pass on a message to Elvis next time she sees him at 70 Norton Road?
262

The Master,

22/01/2008 15:39:07
#42 Michael. 'The bald truth is that most Scots are either hostile or indifferent to the Union and hesitant about independence.'

You’re obviously in urgent need of a comb over, old fellow! The hirsute truth is that most Scots are indifferent to the whole constitutional debate full stop. How sad then that it seems to clog up the Scotsman threads day after day after day.

Wrong, Mr MacMahon: the Achilles heel of the Nationalists is not their belief that support for independence equates with patriotism but there belief that support for independence equates with rational common sense. In this connection, I have yet to come across a nationalist who doesn’t prevaricate with the best of them when the subject of Scotland’s long term future once the precious oil dries up is raised.

“Mr Salmond's approach has, so far, been REMARKABLY successful”: now you’re punches are beginning to hit home, Mr MacMahon! It is remarkable that any modern day politician can achieve popularity through a series of broken promises and just proves that charisma is all a politician really needs in this modern age. God forbid that the public should actually take time to scrutinise the policies offered by the only (for now) relatively successful politician ever to emerge from this pressure group with ideas so far above its station that many of its policies could have been devised by little green men in the sky displaying the SNP’s hateful logo!

“For the SNP, there is the grave danger of conflating their current popularity with support for independence.” Exactly: if all this isn’t advancing the supposedly cogent case for independence one iota, then what’s the point of the SNP? Isn’t it ironic that the policies with which it seems to have found a modicum of undeserved popularity have very little to do with pushing forward their much fudged independence agenda?
263

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:41:55
373AM2 So you say you referred to house prices slumping and immediate sales on the basis of an SNP majority, but now say that you didn't expect an SNP majority? One wonders why you speculated about the house price slump then?
264

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 15:42:42
372. Oooh, the Master has shifted Kimba off the 70 Norton Road users computer as it is his turn now....
265

BMeister,

22/01/2008 15:51:11
maybe it was all a game played by kimba for her own amusement, after all, an anagram of

Judith Kimba Ronin is

I am jin drunk hobit.

266

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 22/01/2008 15:52:46
#106 Kimba

It may have passed you by, but old people in Scotland have to sell their homes when they go into care, just like in England. The exception to this (in both countries) is where the person has severe physical needs for health care and then a doctor will make this assessment. I suspect you are confusing residential care with free care for the elderly.
267

morris,

edinburgh 22/01/2008 15:54:19
106

And these are the result of decisions made by the government in Westminster which you elected and what happens in Scotland ,with her devolved status is what we voted for,and is therefore legitimate and no different to the elected government of France or anybody else is. It has nothing to do with Scotland or her parliament. It has everything to do with what YOU voted into Westminster where you have 85% of the seats .
If you cannot understand that you are not bitter so much as THICK!
268

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 22/01/2008 15:58:00
#156 I suggest that you should get medical aid also as you are clearly suffering from anger management issues.
269

BMeister,

22/01/2008 16:00:52
Is the spanish version of Jackie Baillie - el Jackie Alibi?

270

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 16:02:36
#372
The problem the SNP have isn't just that the majority of Scots don't share their need for victimhood as regards the UK. The majority of Scots intsinctively feel that the idea of nationalism itself is un-Scottish. This is the dilemma for SNP strategists. They are tolerated as long as their raison d'etre is unrealisable. As soon as success for the nationalists seems possible you will see their support ebb away. And that is their fate, always the bridesmaids never the brides...
271

BMeister,

22/01/2008 16:03:17
#390 Connaughtboy

When you get to about 330 you'll be relieved to see it looks like she's in the right place for that.
272

Conan the Librarian™,

22/01/2008 16:04:40
I'm certainly not in Stockton for sure. Though some Libraries are madhouses...
273

BMeister,

22/01/2008 16:04:51
I deon't understand what you mean by people seeing nationalism as unScottish. Could you explain?
274

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 16:08:32
Ayrshire#377,

The Master must be a very strong hombre! :)
275

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 16:11:20
#392

It all comes down to whether you want to rule your own country or if you want to be ruled by another country.
Clearly you think we should be ruled by foreigners.
276

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 16:11:56
Get in thair!
277

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 16:12:16
#395 BMeister,
Certainly. Scotland has a long and proud tradition of social justice and progressive politics. Something as reactionary as nationalism does not sit well with our natural support for organised Labour and liberal causes.
278

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 22/01/2008 16:14:40
#260 Kimba

I am sure your lawyer will be livid with you for ruining your case by coming on a forum like this and displaying your irrationality for all to see. Suggest you butt out as soon as !
279

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 16:15:11
#399
'Clearly you think we should be ruled by foreigners.'
Please tell me again how far apart nationalism and the far right are?
280

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 16:16:54
Most normal people don't want to be ruled by foreigners, they want to rule themselves.

Unionists aren't normal.
281

AJ Fife,

22/01/2008 16:17:22
#405,

Worst attempt at a wind up ever!
282

Conan the Librarian™,

22/01/2008 16:19:19
What's all this talk of politics on the Kimba and her solicitor post?
283

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 16:19:45
#403
The UK is the status quo, we don't have to argue for it because it exists. The SNP have to convince the majority of Scots that breaking up the UK is in their interests.
So far they have failed spectacularly to make any serious in-roads.
284

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 16:24:44
#410
Scottish History has always been on the curriculum, no matter what the more lunatic fringe may claim. Still the attacks on organised Labour from the reactionary right. This will be the SNP's undoing so perhaps we should encourage them...
285

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 16:27:52
'08. Lower taxes than Nordic countries. Better services than Ireland'

Interesting, I assume AM2 has considered the fact that an independent Scotland would have the power to set it's own income taxes (or maybe even get rid of them altogether!)

I had a debate with him earlier about unionists thinking Scots were 'feckless' and he denied this to be true.
But this is a variation on that very concept-the idea that Scots wouldn't be able to run a government that could keep taxes low or run services competently.

Unionist always say that an independent Scotland would be rubbish.

My response is, an independent Scotland would be run by Scots-therefore it would be brilliant!
286

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 16:28:14
Aye Wardog, what have the Romans ever done for us? Get a grip, this nonsense might play well with the Popular Front of Alba or whatever ludicrous gaelic name the freedom fighters are calling themselves this month but do you think the Scottish people are impressed by theis continual bleating?
Roll on the general election.
287

BMeister,

22/01/2008 16:28:47
#401 Grahamski
Thanks for your explanation of your view.
I would have said that devolution and more recently the formation of the SNP government have been the most progressive and galvanising occurrences in Scottish politics for a long time. I don't think nationalism is too reactionary, perhaps it depends what you are reacting against. For me and (perhaps others) wanting more independence and accountability in government stems from the disenfranchisement and social injustice of the Thatcher years. For others I would imagine Blair and Brown have done Labour as much harm in a similar vein.

It may not lead to total independence but I would be wary of saying that because Scotland hisorically has supported Labour and the union it will never change.
288

morris,

edinburgh 22/01/2008 16:43:54
399

Is it a wind up ? Possibly,but I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really do believe what you are saying.

How far apart ? Thats a very presumptious question.It depends upon what part of the political spectrum your nationalist party resides at!

SNP Founder member Hugh McDairmaid was a communist,as is current member Jimmy Reid .
Is that far enough apart for you?

All nationalist movements must encompass the entire population or they cannot ever unite the electorate, and their raison d' etre would never be realised.

The SNP is such a broad church and consequently it attracts members from the entire spectrum.
If the SNP are going away they sure have a funny way of showing it,just as the loony left have a funny way of measuring success in almost no votes at all !

289

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 16:43:56
What points do you want answered?
Linda Fabiani's platitudes are nauseating. Incidentally, how can she be an MSP, she lost to Andy Kerr didn't she?. The only way would be that she stood for election and was rejected by the electorate, then decided to ignore the will of the people and sneak in on the list system, but surely not?
The substantive change on Scottish History is that in the examination it will be now be compulsory to answer a question on Scottish History. Which is as it should be.
290

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 16:50:27
#399 Morris,
It's not a wind up but it is amusing to see the nationalists twist and turn on this point. As you so amply demonstrate you really have no answer to the obvious point about where nationalism as a political philosophy is located. In the political family tree it is first cousins with fascism. You know it but won'y admit it, the thing is the Scottish people know it instinctively and will recoil in horror at the logical conclusion to this pernicious and dangerous political dogma.
291

Deasún,

Glasgow 22/01/2008 16:51:10
AM2 "Who "betrayed" Ireland now that its property price crash is in full swing?"

What property "crash"? I use the word "crash" advisedly since there isn't one! A slowing down, a correction certainly but not a "crash". If you want to call it a "crash" then can you explain the "crash" in the South East of England?

And you claim to 'condemn racism' that is not my memory of the guff that you were perpetrating the in wake of the Glasgow Airport bomb.
292

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 16:55:08
#432
I'll leave it to AM2 to defend his dividend, I'm not particularly interested in tthe number of angels on a pinhead arguments employed by the more anorak-inclined posters on here.
293

morris,

edinburgh 22/01/2008 16:55:36
432

"how can she be an MSP,"

Are you serious?

She was elected in the same way as half of the Labour opposition were of course. Under a system of PR which was agreed by all parties(rightly or wrongly).

294

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 17:01:57
Generally what nationalism is about is; Self belief, pride and love of one's country, self reliance and the desire to fight for what is rightfully yours, A refusal to tolerate foreign meddlers.

Of course unionism is the opposite of all these things.
295

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 17:02:44
#439
Morris,
So, is this how it goes then? She puts herself forward as a SNP candidate in EK. The people have the chance to elect her. They decline, they say that they don't want her to represent them.
She ignores this and goes in on the list despite the fact she was rejected when she stood personally? Is that how it works? You're ok with this?
296

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 17:04:19
443
Richardinho,
Whats gaelic for tomorrow belongs to me, again?
297

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 17:08:02
#445
Wardog as long as you cling to the discredited ideology of nationalism and all its attendant dangers then you will have to answer the very real concerns of the population. Millions died fighting nationalism in WW2, Oswald Mosley may well have been a member of the Labour Party before his dalliance with Fascism, so what?
298

Sgurr,

22/01/2008 17:15:25
I'm still deeply amused and highly entertained that kimba told everyone she was sueing them and gave the address of her "solicitor" as the same address as her local mental health drop-in centre!!! You really, really can't make these Scotsman threads up.
299

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 17:16:24
For all the problems of nationalism, I'd sooner have Scottish nationalism than British nationalism.
300

,

22/01/2008 17:16:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
301

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 17:17:13
#334 Dear, dear AM2 I am fully aware that you were not grooming the youthful Ayrshire Scot and I am touched that you would seek to clarify that you have no desire to do jiggly stuff with him, that you were merely engaging in social intercourse as opposed to any other type.

sarchasm ('sär-"ka-z&m) : The giant gulf (chasm) between what is said and the person who doesn't get it.
302

inkster,

22/01/2008 17:20:12
446
'Millions died fighting nationalism in WW2'

You mean fascism not nationalism surely It was not the love of one's country but the manipulation of that love by mad racist idealogues that was the problem

303

morris,

edinburgh 22/01/2008 17:25:09
444

The entire parliament was elected using this PR system, which has been adopted by all parties, and as far as I am aware, the result is not in dispute, and will remain so.Every single person who cast a vote declares acceptance of this procedure.

The entire parliament has been elected this way since it was opened, and it seems reasonable to assume that 99% of Scotland agrees that this should be so.If you are not happy with it ,that is your choice, but you represent yourself only!That means you can be unhappy ,but you still have to accept the result,same as everybody in Scotland does.

Parties choose whoever they feel is the best person for any vacancy under an order of preference. If Linda Fabiani had lived in the North of Scotland she could possibly have been elected outright.The rules are the same for everybody.She should not be excluded simply because she lives in Glasgow!

They do not favour Linda Fabiani in this any more than anybody else and well you know it!

Even if you could find somebody who agrees with you(there will not be many) it makes no difference. The majority certainly will never agree with you,so thats that then.
304

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 17:25:25
Wardog,
'Listen you quisling moron ,stand up,get off your knees and lose the CRINGE!'
care to comment?
305

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 17:29:23
#459

Ouch that had to hurt, then again you do come across as a bit of an ignoranus.
306

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 17:30:15
#444
I would imagine that there will be some head scratching from the electors who thought Ms Fabiani had been unsuccessful in her attempts to become an MSP. Presumably she stood for the discredited Alex Salmond party? Don't you think it unfair to stand in the lists and as a FPTP MSP? I do, it is deeply worrying this is going on. How many Labour MSPs were rejected at the ballot box then subsequently sneaked in through the lists?
307

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 17:33:43
#457
Nationalism is just a few stations away from fascism if you jump on that particularly infantile political express...
308

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 17:39:14
Oh wardog, you do my job for me. Priceless....
'But typical 'British Unionist' likes to forget about the 'Imperial Years' where Britain committed crimes against humanity that rank right up there with the Holocuaust and the slaughter in Russia........'
It's a keeper.
Come on everybody, time to howl at the moon.
Anyway, must dash..and you nationalists don't go invading Poland when our backs are turned...
British crimes against humanity...as I said, pricelss
309

Richard,

Broxburn 22/01/2008 17:39:46

Grahamski,
Falkirk

Listen up halfwit! I don't take kindly to being called a fascist for merely wanting Scotland's self determination.

I do hope you don't spout this guff down the local,someone might kick 'seven shades' out of you?
310

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 17:40:26
The biggest 'strongholds' of unionism are places like Harthill which have hellish crime and drug problems because people have given up thinking that they can actually take control of their own lives and improve them. We have to reach out to these people and teach them that they don't have to rely on foreigners to come in and sort their problems out, they should be able to take responsibility for their own affairs.
311

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 17:43:03
#466 I suspect Grahamski rather enjoys men kicking seven shades out of him.
312

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 22/01/2008 17:43:08
#467

What foreigners are these, ah you must mean the nasty EU, rather than holders of UK passports like themselves.
313

inkster,

22/01/2008 17:44:04
#463
And you have a first class carriage on the particular train
314

Andrew Allan,

22/01/2008 17:51:18
'Scots do not want to end the Union, merely modify it'

I do believe this statement to be not entirely truthful. If you ask most Scots: given the circumstances, wouldn't you rather your own people running their own affairs, most Scots would agree. So it then would be obvoius that most Scots do not really want to continue the union, though there may be many who find it hard to visualize themsleves outside of it.
315

Winters,

22/01/2008 17:52:47
381 separate postings when the article is worth only 38 what on earth is going on! I know it's a free country but if these people want to have a laugh among themselves, they should find some other way of doing it.
316

inkster,

22/01/2008 17:53:01
isn't it funny how the half wit trolls of these forums (EV, AM2 and Grahamski) all suddenly say 'got to dash etc' when they get caught out. They paw around the lower reaches of race comments, run out of ideas, continue with a few low life insults and run drooling and gibbering to their mental pissoirs for a recharge.
317

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 17:53:07
The unionists have systematically fostered a culture of dependency in Scotland that has caused enormous damage to people. people wait around looking for someone else to sort their problems out. We have to show people that that is not the right way to do things.
318

An English Voice™,

22/01/2008 17:55:36
464. What now?!

And what would those 'crimes against humanity that rank alongside Hitler and Stalin' be?
319

kimba,

22/01/2008 17:59:18
If you want independence,that's ending the union,not modifying it,we have already modifyed it.
320

inkster,

22/01/2008 17:59:38
Anyway I'm getting worried that 'professor' MacMahon may be getting a bonus forum payment based on the number of posts. No worries it's worth it to get rid of him. Good luck and good riddance. Don't get sucked into the rat race Pete.
321

glassbenmhor,

22/01/2008 18:00:58
Am2,Good Evening,
Politeness costs nothing,I'm sure you'll agree,there seems to be many ranting idiots on both sides and I have to confess I do it at times as well.
I'm unable to believe that as it seem here the Hopes and Fears of the 'Union' are to be placed with all there wait upon the meager shoulders of a bunch of pollsters calmly and simply do not believe any of there findings.
From them we must conclude that the 'Union' is doing just fine thankyou.They would suggest that 75% of the population is not a bit bothered about the Labour melt-down and the grime that is produced by,I also can fully understand this papers political stance,for the Union and that is absolute fact,but for it to support Wendy Alexander-it dose so by not openly condemning her i would find seriously dangerous for the Unionist cause as a whole,Yes i'm sure Salmond picks fights the biggest of which is purely his existence's being exacerbated by the intransigence clearly see across the political horizon from Westminister.
All in all it dose not bode well for the Union's survival
322

kimba,

22/01/2008 18:04:46
AYRSHIRE. YOU AND YOUR COHORTS WILL BE LAUGHING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF YOUR STUPID MORANIC FACES SOON, you are a bunch of scottish numptys not worthy of a RESPONSE.
323

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:05:29
478 Methalions
' How many stations from Falkirk to Barking?'

I'm not sure but if it passes through Pratt's Bottom in Kent grahamski could stay, I'm sure he'd feel quite at home.
324

Andrew Allan,

22/01/2008 18:06:10
#463.,Grahamski.
‘Nationalism is just a few stations away from fascism if you jump on that particularly infantile political express...’

Grahamski, though it might be possible to be a few stations away from fascism if you are a Nationalist as you suggest, as the SNP are seen to be some where between Old Labour and New Labour you might as well tar the supporters of all the other main stream parties with the same brush.

325

inkster,

22/01/2008 18:09:07
Yes Am2 exits left with an evil grin and a few dusty comments, Grahamski falls off the stage into the orchestra pit, EV appears centre stage in a stage elevator in a cloud of smoke and mirroes . Its like a bad piero staging of Iolanthe run by an impresario with a stained union jack waistcoat and a mangy bulldog drooling (and gibbering) on his buckled co-respondent shoes.
326

kimba,

22/01/2008 18:09:37
Are you against the Union and the United Kingdom?

Unlike the SNP and Plaid Cymru we are not seeking independence for England and we are not anti the Union. We are simply pro English. We would like to see a continuation of the Union of Great Britain, but with willing participants, and a new post devolutionary agreement. We would govern in the name of England, and would work with political parties in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland for the good and stability of the union.

Our model is for there to be a Parliament for Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England and for the existing House of Lords to be scrapped and replaced by representatives of all parts of the United Kingdom which would work to scrutinise policy across the Union and minimize differences to keep the Union stable. The current asymmetrical devolution is unstable and is likely to destroy the Union in the medium term – we would not want to see this happen.
327

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:09:59
I thought the day centre would be closed by now.
328

kimba,

22/01/2008 18:11:42
496. SAYS THE PERSON WITH NO NAME
329

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:11:46
490...Kimba responded, from 70 Norton Road, Srockton....
330

Andrew Allan,

22/01/2008 18:11:47
When you look at it Independence is but modification with a wink after it.
331

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:12:53
498. Yes, very good service they provide at 70 Norton Road (mind you, the day centre is getting smaller, what with the solicitor's office taking up the corner of the day lounge...)
332

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:13:46
497 Kimba
Have I got this right?

You want to have 4 separate parliaments creating policy, and then a central elected body attempting to minimise the difference in the policies created by the devolved bodies.
333

Belter 3,

London 22/01/2008 18:15:08
Many Scots want independance not merely modification. When the Torys, Labour and the Lib Dems were down in London last week whining for help they did not even get a mention in the press or on TV. This is the true representation of Scottish opinion within the unbalanced Great Britain. There are no Football, Rugby or anything else from the BBC which I am forced to pay a fee.
334

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:15:46
501 Kimba
'496. SAYS THE PERSON WITH NO NAME'

OhmyGod, it couldn't be, is it?

Clint Eastwood?
335

kimba,

22/01/2008 18:17:25
498. YOU ARE NOT CLEVER,INFACT YOU SPOUT VERBAL DIARREA,MOST OF THE TIME.
336

,

22/01/2008 18:20:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
337

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:20:08
Wardog

'the others would be more actuarately described as 'Anti-Nationalist' - they aren't Unionist at all.
'

I think you may have a point there. take Grahamski as a case in point, when challenged earlier today to stress positives for the union he fell back on the hackneyed, weak, lily-livered non-answer of

'the status quo needs no defence'

It's a pathetic response for a pro-unionist but if you view it as a response of someone who is merely anti-nationalist and doesn't know what the benefits of the union are then it might seem a reasonable option.
338

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:21:18
516 'the status quo needs no defence'

Although some of their earlier work was good I thought 'Margherita Time' was criminal.
339

The Master,

22/01/2008 18:22:49
#500 Wardog: how interesting that you have are of the opinion that many posters are not so much pro union as anti SNP. I have always maintained that the cause of independence would be better served by a breakaway pressure group than by the SNP. The problem with the SNP is that the pressure group aspect to the party (ie the campaign for Scottish Independence) tends to become submerged amongst a welter of other policies (many of them downright foolhardy, such as the anti nuclear stance) and the numerous broken promises. All this distracts attention from the independence agenda; indeed, it must be extremely doubtful how many of those who voted for the party at the Scottish Elections actually support its pro independence stance (perhaps AM2 has recent poll evidence to illuminate this). Anyway, the corollary of your post is that the SNP is suffering from increasing goal displacement.
340

kimba,

22/01/2008 18:23:07
507. Got it in one,and Robin is spot on.
341

Queen D,

Glasgow 22/01/2008 18:23:09
Well what a super headline, Mr MacMahon.
And who, exactly, did you ask?
The labour party?
You certainly did'nt ask me,and I doubt that you asked many of the posters on this site.
Ah! Got it!
You asked our friends in the south and the perennial cut and post merchant,ain't that so Mr MacMahon??
342

inkster,

22/01/2008 18:23:35
#506
I think justice, equality and wisdom were the tenets of Plato's Republic not breeding a super race. you are mangling the half truth you half wit.
343

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:25:27
515? P-SS? with Kimba? What sort of service are they running at the Mental Health Day Care Centre at 70 Norton Road? I shall ask Judith Ronin when I write to her there pointing out Kimba's use of their address and "lawyers"
344

Andrew Allan,

22/01/2008 18:26:40
#504.,Wardog.
‘#492 LOL - That had me laughing out loud..... oh the vision! ;-)’

All that laughing out loud must have left a great deal of ringing in your ears Wardog, for you not to realize the philosophical aspirations of the great majority of humanity, hardly an isolated vision then.
345

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:26:48
508 Mist

I pondered that too for a second, then just gave up....
346

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:29:30
514 Kimba
It's diarrhea, and does that mean not all the time, thanks, I'm touched (in an emotional way, I am not a Norton Road client).

Rather than spouting your usual shouted tirade of weakly risible abuse why don't you try having some sort of debate. I'll restate one of the questions I asked you earlier if you want toi have a go:

Have I got this right?

You want to have 4 separate parliaments creating policy, and then a central elected body attempting to minimise the difference in the policies created by the devolved bodies.
347

I'mallymax,

Orwellian nightmare; the fine of scotland in londo 22/01/2008 18:29:56
Aye, right!

Believe this article and you'll believe anything.

Another attempt by the scots Bliarites in London to con the Scots public into thinking this rot of an article is valid.

Don't be fooled by the aggrandizement of these scots bliarites; they sold us up the river 300 years ago, and they're trying to do it again.
348

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:30:55
515
513.FUNNY C--T

No no, Clint has 5 letters.
349

kimba,

22/01/2008 18:35:21
BMEISTER. YOU ARE A NOTHING BUT A SCOTTISH TROLL, NOW, GO AND PLAY WITH YOUR CUT OUT OF WEE ECK.
350

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:36:05
526 Ayrshire
if that's the proposal it sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare and disaster to me. Surely the only way it could work like that would be top down. The central house provides a basic framework for eg health and then the devolved administrations work within it.
351

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 18:37:53
Fellers, come on lay of the KIMBA, she's obviously very special and is probably in need of some form of medication. I'm ignoring her from now on.
352

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:38:52
534 Kimba

Does that mean you don't know the answer then. Don't try and cover up by giving it the 'you're a troll, answering to you is beneath me' type answer.

Instead try and give a reasoned response for probably the first time today.
353

kimba,

22/01/2008 18:40:24
523.POINT OUT ALL YOU WANT,YOU MORANIC SCOTTISH TWERP, DID YOU REALLY THINK I WOULD GIVE YOU MY SOLICITORS ADDRESS,YOU TW-T.
354

David MacVicar,

web 22/01/2008 18:40:49
"The trouble/problem with the SNP/NATS" comments etc.

Currently the SNP/"Nats" problems are minor ones. There has been a tilting of the balance since the election such that, for the moment at least, all the signs are pointing in one direction: greater autonomy for Scotland.

Where all this will lead to in the next decade is anyones guess, but 10 years from now Scotland will be readically different place.

The unionists, specifically unionist parties and especially Labour have little to gain and everything to lose in this process. They grudgingly pay lip service but further autonomy for Scotland is a huge problem for them and where even talk of independence is anathema. Democracy?

The desire for and pursuit of self determination is our democratic right, enshrined by the UN.
Gov.UK has done everything from refusing to even accept 2.5 Million signatures for home rule(2/3 of the electorate), rigging referendum results and delaying devolution until the threat of UN intervention finally forced a small degree of autonomy.

Clearly there is absolutely no desire to hand over any meaningful power to Scotland. Therefore Devolution Max is not going on the table. They will gamble with minor changes and vague promises.

So the problem for the unionists is not really with the SNP or their supporters the problem is how to deal with those who want much greater autonomy. Can you sell them a dummy once again? Its looking less and less likely over time.
355

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:40:53
537 Methalions

I'm a bit hurt I haven't been threatened with legal action actually.
356

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:41:23
540 Beer Mist

I really do think Kimba is a patient at 70 Norton Road (really) - she is probs best ignored. She does this for attention or something. She is a bit tragic (and smells of kippers).

On the CEP thing, makes no sense - as you summarised, 4 devolved parliaments making polciy, and a central one making all policy the same????
357

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:41:38
541 Methalions
A nice plaice though
358

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:42:43
545 Mist

I have been threatened by no fewer than 5 deranged Unionist posters on here with legal action, and English Voice said he would kick my head in (I think is a 70 Norton Roader too). How i laughed.
359

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:45:01
543 Kimba

but you did - at post 240, then you repeated it 6 times, and even said your "solictors" were in the same building as your Mental Health Day Care Centre at 70 Norton Road. You have no lawyers, so are just a very sad, very fat, quite smelly, lonely, deranged and slightly pathetic creature (with bad breath and a slack mimsy).
360

kimba,

22/01/2008 18:47:09
Have a good evening or the best you can with salmond in charge.
361

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:47:45
546 Ayrshire
You might be right. Might try and ignore if she can't respond reasonably to anything.

On point 2. Even the Americans don't work that way.
362

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:48:08
556 Ah, now we know, 70 Norton Road closes at 7pm....
363

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:49:56
557 Beer Mist

no, I can think of no example of devolved/ federal government structure where the central goverenment shares policy remit/ competence with the devolved government by design to "minimise differences" - talk about duplication.....

364

Janis *,

22/01/2008 18:50:22

Actually if you are feeling pedantic BMeister (530) It's diarrhoea , but then so am I... Belter (510 ) it's independence. Never mind your only the 3rd Nat. these last few days who can't spell the word.
365

The Master,

22/01/2008 18:50:55
#535 Wardog: leaving aside my own political allegiance, you are quite right that it’s a distinct possibility that many Tories would “jump into the SNP’s bed if they just dropped that pesky policy of independence”. This is one of the principal reasons that many oppose the SNP’s referendum proposal: if the party lost, the independence policy would be to all intents and purposes neutered and Salmond would find his efforts to build support all the easier once he was unwillingly freed of the deadweight of the independence policy (whatever the strength of his own personal belief in the cause).

You are wrong, incidentally: I despise the whole ethos of nationalism and would not support the SNP under any circumstances (even if one day it “does a Plaid” and converts into a devolution max party (as I feel will almost inevitably happen some day).

#559 AM2: well done! You've come up with the goods as usual!
366

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:51:12
559 What percentage of Labour voters favour independence, and Lib Dem/ Tory voters?
367

kimba,

22/01/2008 18:51:17
553,LOL, but I didn't, oh,you are so easy to con,but don't dispair,my real solicitor is on the case,and thanks for all your slanderous remarks.
368

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:52:28
thanks Kimba


I'm sure we'll have a whale of a time. No answer to the question then?
369

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:53:50
564 Salnderous? Is she then saying her mimsy is not slack or that she does not smell of kippers? I lost my mentalist to English dictionary...
370

Conan the Librarian™,

22/01/2008 18:54:52
Evening All.
I see the party is still in full swing.
Diarrhoea; why not just say the skits?
371

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:57:09
569 C the L

is skits written with a "k" rather than "scits"? Also, on a technical note, a siingle skitter can be one soft one (ala Kimba) whereas "the skits/ skitters" are a liquid emulsion.
372

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/01/2008 18:57:50
566

Kimba is a whale all of the time.
373

BMeister,

22/01/2008 18:58:38
561 Janis
Hail fellow pedant.
You may well be right, I thought that thanks to our American cousins it can now be either.


Some people think it's funny but it's really brown and runny. Diarrhea thbthtbthtb diarrhoea thbthtbthtb
374

David MacVicar,

web 22/01/2008 19:00:32
"Scots do not want to end the Union, merely modify it"

Completely False.

More accurate:
"About a third of all Scots want a complete end to the Union treaty, most of the rest desire Scottish autonomy on a large scale. Only about 20 percent want to tweak it or leave it as it is".


Where are the answers to the real questions?
How many want full fiscal control?
How many want energy contral?
How many want to have final say in defense policy?
How many want international represntation to decide fishing policy or prevent destruction of major industries such as Steel?
How many want to decide our place in Europe? UEA or EU?
etc
etc
375

Conan the Librarian™,

22/01/2008 19:01:31
Oh no!
Kimba has a ***real*** solicitor!

But then again...
376

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:01:52
AYRSHIRERSTOT, Go to h-ll,you arrogant tw-t,you are a smug loser with nothing better to do that bully people,you are sad individual.
377

BMeister,

22/01/2008 19:01:58
564 Kimba
'553,LOL, but I didn't, oh,you are so easy to con,but don't dispair,my real solicitor is on the case,and thanks for all your slanderous remarks'

They are in fact libellous remarks, I would stick with defamatory if I were you as it covers both.

Before you start the litigation though remember you won't get legal aid for that. Just a friendly word of warning.

Still no answer to any political questions then?
378

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:02:49
57 keep it coming,you losers.
379

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:06:26
50. already got legal aid,thanks anyway.
380

BMeister,

22/01/2008 19:07:17
582 Kimba - 'keep it coming'

Unlike any answer from you on an on topic question you mean?
381

Irene Murdoch,

Linlithgow 22/01/2008 19:10:18
#852. Kimba. You tell them, girl. Don't let them bully you. I admire your tenacity.
382

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 19:11:00
Kimba, oh dear, I meant number 582
383

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:11:35
ANSWER TO POLITICAL QUESTIONS. WE IN ENGLAND WANT RID OF THE SCOTTISH RAJ,WE WANT OUR OWN PARLIAMENRT,BUT MOST OF ALL WE WANT FAIR PLAY IN THE NHS.
384

Conan the Librarian™,

22/01/2008 19:13:15
577
That's what the recent stushie about English Lit. in the Library of Congress was all about AM2.
Literature written in English;or "English"(meaning British,Subheading Scottish)literature.

I don't want to be a subheading.
385

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:17:57
you can try and bully me,you can call me names,but it only goes to show what a sad bunch of uneducated losers you all are.
386

Karin M,

22/01/2008 19:20:13
Ayrshire, meths are you trying to kill me i nearly choked on my tea laughing.
387

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:20:28
593.No.
388

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 19:20:54
#592. You Go girl!
389

Karin M,

22/01/2008 19:21:24
ps am I nat1 or nat2?
390

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:21:36
karinm. pity that
391

Van (not white) Diesel,

22/01/2008 19:22:09
#589 Kimba
Why would you want rid of the Raj Restaurant in Leith?
392

Conan the Librarian™,

22/01/2008 19:22:47
585
Depends on the cooncil,me am Edinburgh so ah am.

But like for like...
393

Conan the Librarian™,

22/01/2008 19:24:38
Karin!!? Where've you been?

I got six hunner Meths :-P
394

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:25:59
karinm. naw,you're just a sad troll who rights cr-p on bank notes,to get you're beloved snp support.
395

Van (not white) Diesel,

22/01/2008 19:27:13
Spurs v Arsenal in a jiff
396

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:30:45
and yes I know it should be "writes"
397

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 19:31:05
#603 Don't sink to their level Kimba!!
398

Karin M,

22/01/2008 19:31:39
601 working mainly but also busy with diy and i still hate this flippin new site.

603 Kimba im sorry i cant reply everytime i try to i just go into a laughing fit at the whole solicitor/mental health day care thing as i imagine you and all your family sitting round the tea trolley with snp written on your head.
399

Karin M,

22/01/2008 19:33:11
606 irene be careful associating with kimba she meets people who pin her daughers sisters boyfriend down and write on his head with blue biro.
400

Van (not white) Diesel,

22/01/2008 19:35:10
#607 - Don't forget the DNR label.
401

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 22/01/2008 19:36:59
It's high time all these hysterical Unionists and Nationalists went and lay down in a darkened room and calmed down before The Scotsman withdraws the privilege
of commenting on these pages about the current debate!

Why not have some tolerance for each others points of view without resorting to personal insults and use of foul language? We need rational debate!
402

Van (not white) Diesel,

22/01/2008 19:37:13
#607 - or the Nil By Mouth.
403

Karin M,

22/01/2008 19:38:12
Anyway im glad to see mcmahon going if he is going to write partisan rubbish like the above.
404

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:38:13
karinm. yeah, but at least we don't break the law,or bully other people,and if ayrshirescot and his side kick methalions think they would get my solicitors name,they are truly stupid, as for your laughing fit,please don't pee yourself.
405

Karin M,

22/01/2008 19:39:23
There is only one sure fire way of determining what scots want and thats a referendum and until that happens all we have is much ado about nothing because nothing has actually happened or is going to happen until this is settled.
406

Karin M,

22/01/2008 19:43:02
615 Kimba is trying to kill me with a laughing fit its assualt i tell you im contacting the police.
407

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 19:44:59
#615. Oh my, who broke the law. This all seems far too serious for me!
408

buidhe,

Domhnall Eachainn 22/01/2008 19:46:10
I want Scotland to be very different from England and not simply a clone like nation especially in regard to culture heritage and language and that is why I support the SNP.
There seems very little point having a Scotland that is an image of England and that is why the Gaelic language is so important to me. Can any of you ever see a time when Gaelic is accepted as an equal language other than in Scotland. History tells us that Gaelic is the most Scottish thing there is and the people who spoke and speak this language gave the country its name.
I have absolutely nothing against the English as the love of ones own culture is much more important than the denigration of another.
It is only the person who doesn't have one to call his own that feels insecure.
409

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:46:53
oh karinm, you have pi--ed yourself,good god woman, have you no shame.
410

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 19:48:43
#621 Kimba, really, you should not stoop to their level!! You lose any ground you had!!
411

,

22/01/2008 19:49:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
412

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:50:20
618. nothing to worry about.
413

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:51:53
622. Do they have a level.
414

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 19:52:35
#625 Have these bullies actually harrassed you to the point of illegality???
415

Karin M,

22/01/2008 19:52:44
622 Kimba has ground were you reading the same comments i was. All kimba does is come on here and troll. Then she gives us all a laugh with her rambling
416

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 19:53:45
#626 Oh my, indeed!! Well said.
417

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 19:54:13
Who would have thought that MacMahon's last ever column, would have been derailed by a Geordie care in the community client? It's all sooo sad.

Ho hum, anyhoo, it appears that the WENDY is having a dinner with the Scottish media pack tomorrow night, expect a deliberation officially from the Electoral Commission proclaiming her innocence on Thursday, with a mild rebuke for her 'impermissible' folly.
418

kimba,

22/01/2008 19:54:41
625. nothing illigal in anything I say.
419

Karin M,

22/01/2008 19:54:58
623 grhamski

I am most confused about this butchers apron reference could you explain it to me. Are you referrring to the union flag or the st andrews cross.
420

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 19:55:52
#631, Kimba. I think you misunderstood. I meant have they done something illegal, not you
421

Karin M,

22/01/2008 19:56:08
630 i thought that was tonight?
422

,

22/01/2008 19:57:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
423

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 19:59:46
Karin
Apparently the more frothy-mouthed nationalists refer to our flag as a butchers apron, I know juvenile pathetic posturing, but these people...what can I say?
424

kimba,

22/01/2008 20:00:17
631. well let me put it this way, think the police would not be well pleased.
425

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 20:00:18
#637. Oh my Kimba, naughty but funny!!
426

Conan the Librarian™,

22/01/2008 20:01:40
624
So you're not a Naval person Comma?
427

Karin M,

22/01/2008 20:01:53
638 which flag?
428

Grahamski,

Falkirk 22/01/2008 20:02:22
Read it and weep, Adolf.

But typical 'British Unionist' likes to forget about the 'Imperial Years' where Britain committed crimes against humanity that rank right up there with the Holocuaust and the slaughter in Russia........
429

Karin M,

22/01/2008 20:04:16
KImba i suggest that you stop trying to engage me in conversation i prefer to speak to rational lucid people instead of deranged lunatics who have a hitory of confabulation.
430

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 20:04:30
#634 Ah my media watch possibly came in late, probs with mail out etceteras...


Irene Murdoch, you sound like frisky sort of gel, have you been posting in these parts for long? Although you do strike me as somewhat familiar. Have we met before?

431

Richardinho,

22/01/2008 20:04:31
It doesn't make much difference if England is worse than Nazi Germany or not. It's not Nazi Germany that's running Scotland.
432

Karin M,

22/01/2008 20:05:40
grahmski i am confused as to how the st andrews flag can be called a butchers apron please explain? What does this mean?
433

kimba,

22/01/2008 20:06:52
karinm. what is "hitory", is it rational to write on bank notes to further your cause!
434

buidhe,

Domhnall Eachainn 22/01/2008 20:08:05
What a lot of rubbish on this site. There seems to be no rational discussion to be found here.
435

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 20:08:42
#652 Oh my, you are doing a good job on them! I think defacing the Queen and bank notes is a crime!!!!
436

Karin M,

22/01/2008 20:10:20
Sorry i was reducing my spelling to your level of educational attainment. Should i have said "who before done stuff that was pure mental an that."

437

Conan the Librarian™,

22/01/2008 20:11:38
653
Aye totally Hatstand.
438

kimba,

22/01/2008 20:11:41
654. yes indeed.
439

Karin M,

22/01/2008 20:12:12
654 Irene are you kimbas "lawyer". Given that you now seem to think that you know the law. It is actually only an offence to deface the coin of the realm not the notes. so as i havent taken to writing on coins i think that you should stop being kimbas lawyer now.
440

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 22/01/2008 20:12:49
#654 are you interested in Ballroom dancing?
441

glassbenmhor,

22/01/2008 20:14:31
Lets just cut to the chase with the whole story:-
Can any of us imagine what the rest of the Union would be looking like after Scottish Independence-and what would that vital missing ingredient be?
OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL
AND THEY ALL DAM WELL KNOW IT!
442

kimba,

22/01/2008 20:15:20
656. what, could you please try and speak the queens english,or is that a little out of your league.
443

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 20:17:16
658. Oh good grief, you moronic tub of stale lard! Do you honestly think anyone would be impressed by your slack jawed ravings? You have been tricked. I am in fact a solicitor representing the Stockton Alliance Agaiunst Fat Fishy Fraudster. I work out of 72 Norton Road (yes, just above the Kebab shop, if you poke your triple chinned napper out the window of the mentalist respite centre you will see it next door, you are no stranger to the odd kebab or 30).

The Stockton Alliance Against Fishy Fat Fraudsters believe you are claiming incapacity benefit, while turning tricks at the truck stop by night, and by day are abusing the facilities of the Mental Health Day Care centre at number 70!

Your are a bloated, whale like disgrace! We will see you in court (yes, the court at 76 Norton Road, the one in the corner of the laundrette)!
444

kimba,

22/01/2008 20:18:21
659.WRONG. IT is unlawful to deface the queen in any shape or form.
445

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 20:18:36
660. Good grief Oscar. I am an undercover high powered lawyer working out of a kebab shop! I have no time for dancing!
446

glassbenmhor,

22/01/2008 20:18:51
Oh, forgive me and the death of the Labour Party as its been known,can't see a big loss to Democracy there?
447

Irene Murdoch,

22/01/2008 20:20:30
665. Prince Phillip had better hold off on his gift of a pearl n-cklace then, and you SNP fiends can forget writing on the Queen's head!!
448

kimba,

22/01/2008 20:22:29
AS FOR OUR TROLL FRIEND IRENE MUDOCH,GOOD GRIEF,SURELY IT'S TIME FOR YOU VALIUM,OR ARE YOU ON LIBRIUM.
449

Karin M,

22/01/2008 20:23:42
665 who said i was defacing the queen. Scottish banknotes are slightly different from english ones kimba or didnt you know that. In fact the last i checked it wasnt illegal to write on a picture on a banknote of culzean castle.