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SNP angry at Tory leader's Trident vow

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Published Date: 30 June 2009
By ROSS LYDALL
A ROW broke out yesterday after Conservative leader David Cameron said maintaining Britain's nuclear deterrent would be "non-negotiable" for a future Tory government.
The SNP said the decision – effectively giving the green light to the next generation of Trident nuclear submarines – meant an "obscene" amount of money would be spent on weapons of mass destruction.

The submarines are based at Faslane naval base
on the Clyde, supporting an estimated 850 of the 3,500 jobs at the naval base. Trident is due to be replaced, at an estimated cost of £20 billion, around the year 2025.

Mr Cameron said he supported Britain maintaining an independent nuclear deterrent. "That is absolutely vital for us," he said. "The independent nuclear deterrent, Britain having it, is non-negotiable for the Conservative Party."

Bill Kidd, a Glasgow SNP MSP and anti-Trident campaigner, accused Mr Cameron of "picking fights" with Scotland.

In a BBC Scotland documentary earlier this week, Mr Cameron warned the anti-nuclear SNP to stay out of decisions on defence, which are reserved to the Westminster parliament.

Mr Kidd said: "With David Cameron demanding investment cuts in public services, it is utterly astounding he is planning to waste even more on Trident.

"With the Labour UK Government running up debts of £1.4 trillion, it is clear that we can't afford to waste such an obscene amount of money on unwanted, unnecessary weapons of mass destruction."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 29 June 2009 11:52 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Jerry Springer,

29/06/2009 23:11:19
Bill Kidd, a Glasgow SNP MSP and anti-Trident campaigner, accused Mr Cameron of "picking fights" with Scotland.
=======================================

Pot?

Kettle?

Black?
2

hoblar,

30/06/2009 00:29:22
Don't you tire of someone using a term that might hint that the big bad Scottish Government, ahead in the Scottish votes, is always 'picking fights" with poor old downtrodden westminster?

Almost as tiresome as that tired old kak:

" Pot-Kettle Black"......being a multi posting unionist must surely be as boring as hell if that is considered the wit of the century reply about nuke weapons that are costing us billions and are being housed in our country.

Most of Scotland is against nuclear weapons, our parliament is and the majority of the Scottish MP's are.
3

Darien,

Panama 30/06/2009 00:31:37
Always destined to be the junior partner as long as Scotland remains an internal colony of the UKofGB&NI. Scots need to get a grip.

#2: All Scots-Unionists suffer from a similar disposition. You unionists are all crud and despicable, and so deserving of the name Quisling.
4

frank mcbride,

lusitania 30/06/2009 00:31:41
#2, Sam the Bam.

Why don't you just give up.
5

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

30/06/2009 00:43:06
"Trident is due to be replaced, at an estimated cost of £20 billion, around the year 2025."

Why do they bother putting figures to "War Office" projects?

Gordon Browns legacy Aircraft Carriers, the Prince of Wales and the Queen Elizabeth have already gone 27% over budget and they have yet to weld two pieces of metal together...a billion quid over budget and all they have to show for it so far is a computer generated graphic and a balsa wood model.
6

Darien,

Panama 30/06/2009 00:44:17
The Scots Parliament does not impose laws on England. Yet Westminster still imposes its will on Scotland. That is the essential difference between Westminster and Holyrood. Scotland, more or less a colony. Until its folk get a grip.
7

Iainbroch,

30/06/2009 00:47:11
Forever a colony and dont you forget it Jocko! THe Tories have learned nothing!
8

valhalla-the-reckoning,

30/06/2009 00:47:26
6 - This man is not BNP, Infact, SHE is a Labour party counter smear against several SNP posters.Believed to be a female ex officer of LBP and friend of a Labour candidate. Responsible also for the scottish onion website and believed to have some hand in the Leaky Chanter.

BE warned. HEAD CASE! - very much wind up and go.
9

Brianwci,

30/06/2009 00:49:10
Mr Cameron, the Scottish Parliament can't say Britain shouldn't have Trident, but it can say we are not having it on the Clyde and it can use every devise at its disposal to stop this evil from being part of Scotland.

Take Trident to the Thames, it will make London and the rich South East safer, won't it?
10

Edward,

30/06/2009 01:26:43
David Cameron just wants to ensure that he controls Scotland's Oil in order to pay for Nuclear subs and Super carriers as well as the Health and Schools of England
11

Edward,

30/06/2009 01:28:03
What the Hootsman is not reporting (quel surprise!)
Britain faces “riots on the streets” if Gordon Brown’s “dishonesty” over public spending enables him to win the next election, David Cameron said.
The Conservative leader’s warning added to the escalating row over the Government’s spending commitments as the Prime Minister attempted to relaunch his premiership with a series of policy announcements
Mr Cameron accused Mr Brown of “deceit, dishonesty and deception” after Lord Mandelson, the Business Secretary, admitted that the Government would not publish a spending review before the next election. In what was the Tory leader’s strongest attack yet on Mr Brown’s integrity, he all but called him a liar. The cancelling of the spending review was “a blatant attempt to cover up the truth of Labour cuts”, he said
12

Fletty73,

Stirling 30/06/2009 01:58:02
Unionists want us to have weapons for protection in an uncertain and dangerous world?

How does this arguement square with the demonising of wee Neds wandering about Easterhoose with big blades doon their breeks ?
13

donald,

glasgow 30/06/2009 04:52:29
We need more Bill Kidds and less Labour Tridents.
14

Jim A,

30/06/2009 06:49:38
Seems to me that it doesm't matter where in the UK these things are based because if they ever do start flying we will all BKOA'sGB. With the multiple warheads these things now have, a half dozen missles coming our way will probably wipe us from the face of the earth. Cheery thought innit, I just wish we could rid of the whole lot of them, everywhere.
15

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 30/06/2009 07:20:08
Trident is the one thing worth spending money on. One-to-one tuition for stupid kids born of even more stupid parents is a total waste of money.
16

dunedin bully wee 1877,

30/06/2009 07:41:47
“The submarines are based at Faslane naval base
on the Clyde, supporting an estimated 850 of the 3,500 jobs at the naval base.”


What happened to the 11,000 jobs we keep hearing about from the Unionists?
17

McNasty,

Edinburgh 30/06/2009 07:50:57
The proposed new submarines have much bigger launch tubes being about 50% bigger diameter. This is not a new Trident system but a new weapon system all together. My suspicion is a new first strike weapon is being devised with usable ground penetrating miniature nuclear warheads.

I also suspect the UK will retain the present Trident submarines and convert them to cruise missile carriers, as the US are now doing with some Trident submarines.
18

Munguin,

30/06/2009 08:27:19
Thanks very much David Cameron: his Government wont interfere if the Scots want to abolish tuition fees and reduce prescription charges, as long as the Scottish Government does not interfere with his desire to spend an obscene amount of money on nuclear weapons and host them in Scotland against the wishes of the Scottish people. Devolution in action.
19

David MacVicar,

30/06/2009 08:32:05
There are a few lessons here:
The Tories will not drop trident at any cost to the UK tax payer.
Other defence contracts will be impacted. Announcing the 1 Billion budget overspend is just preparing the way to cancel or radically reduce the conventional programme and especially the carriers.

The excuse will also be that they are no longer the right type of carrier etc.

So rather than talking about the 800 + jobs dependent on Trident there are many more jobs that will go in our already decimated shipbuilding industry.

The union does not build any infrastructure in Scotland unless it has UK interest. Oil, Energy, Nuclear deterrent, UK defence. Nothing gets done in Scotland for Scotland's benefit except Health and Education except we do not set the Budget Scotland has for this either.

20

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 30/06/2009 08:53:02
Non-negotiable Mr Cameron? We will see about that!
21

Toast,

30/06/2009 09:14:30
Anybody who supports trident is a raving idiot.
22

fat lord prodder,

somewhere in alba 30/06/2009 09:17:08
11000 wasnt job numbers it was baillie mixing up how many pies she had that year with jobs,all those greggs shops facing cuts ,must have gave her nightmares
this is the labour lie machine in full blast,pluck a figure and stick with it
lie cheat and paint everyone else liars and blacker than black ,even when fingers have been caught in proverbial till,maybe this is how the saying caught red handed came about,labour should start a new company
CROOKS-R-US
23

fat lord prodder,

somewhere in alba 30/06/2009 09:24:28
The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki,in ww2 are but mere fireworks compared to trident and modern warheads
just look at the devistation done in japan by these two H Bombs,is nothing compared to what we would suffer
nutron bombs were designed to blast human life but leave property standing,the ussr hated the usa having them,and now they want to upgrade the firepower,when nuke war starts,there will be nothing left worth having
bailies nightmare,nae mair greggs pies oh what a nightmare for twiggy as she spouts 11000 jobs 11000 jobs
24

mr broon,

Edinburgh 30/06/2009 10:28:50
A Common Accounts Committee has just expressed concerns about a £1 billion overspend on one of the two new RN aircraft carriers. Scottish jobs could be at stake?

Another committee has expressed alarm at the £24 billion estimated cost of renewing Trident.

It appears the UK may have to enter another costly "lend-lease" agreement with the Yanks to replace its nuclear deterrent?

The Yanks know they have the UK over a barrel on Trident and it could take generations to repay it with
vastly inflated interest payments. It will make PFI/PPP look like a hire purchase agreement.

Like the outcome of the Second World War, the Yanks win again!
25

fat lord prodder,

somewhere in alba 30/06/2009 10:43:05
#27 i heard she went swimming in the sea at helensburgh,when she came ashore hippies were trying to get her back in and pouring water over her to keep her flesh moist
Jackie is currently serving as the Deputy Convener for the Finance Committee and as a member of the Health Committee of the Parliament.
that helps finance and pie eating
26

Queen D,

30/06/2009 10:58:20
I would hope that more than just the SNP are angry at his statement!
I do believe that the Scottish Unionists , Scottish Liberals and Scottish Labour were ALSO against Trident 2.
Hopefully they are also against putting Scotland in the front line as target practice for some madmen.
Hopefully they are GREEN enough to defend our land against ANY MORE pollution from LEAKING NUCLEAR SUBS.

Or do they not want any votes at all????
27

fat lord prodder,

somewhere in alba 30/06/2009 11:20:11
#30 as brown sees himself a north british,he couldnt give a damn about scots views
hes the male version of thatcher,he will state scotland is geographicaly the best site for WMDs there is no way he will want them in london or england
labour will listen to no one,PFI is a prime example as UNISON in 1998 stated how it would cost far more than it stated,also builders would be holding the deeds so win win for private company,s shored up with public money and still they went ahead,and we see now what a disaster it was
to think labour was always seen around CND when in opposition,michael foot was anti nukes,along with hundreds of labour supporters
they want to dump more rotten hulks of nuke subs on us,if they are so safe,keep them in the thames and other english naval bases,dont pollute us
28

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 30/06/2009 11:31:51
I think that no matter how much Cameron wants to sit at the Nuclear Top Table that once in power he will find that Britain can no longer afford the membership dues.

Time for Britain to grow up and learn that it is no longer a world power, it is just a heavily indebted little Island of the coast of Europe.
29

Castaway™ ,

30/06/2009 12:36:02
The Scottish Government and Parliament have the unquestionable right, and indeed duty, to express themselves on any issue that concerns the welfare of the people and land of Scotland and where possible take the appropriate measures (all legal means) to carry out the will of the Scottish Parliament.

Scottish Parliament -15 June 2007
The majority, 71 MSPs vote against the replacement the Trident nuclear missile system while only 16 voted for the plan, while 39 MSPs abstained.

UK Parliament - 14 March 2007
The majority of Scottish Constituency MPs at Westminster voted against the government plans to renew the nuclear weapons system.

January 2007 ICM opinion poll. Scotland - Oppose nuclear weapons 64% Support Nuclear weapons 30% Don't Know 6%
30

Gorach,

Oban 30/06/2009 13:06:15
SNP
31

Farky,

Edinburgh 30/06/2009 13:31:28
SNP
32

sam the god,

30/06/2009 13:38:35
I C B M
33

Eve,

Scotland 30/06/2009 13:52:10
#17 Mikko: What a sick comment to make!!! Yer no serous are you?

There's no such thing as stupid people. Different people have different strengths and weaknesses AND if the weakness are in Literacy or/and Numeracy then 1 to 1 support may be the only thing that helps the to succeed.

Theres stupid acts and things that happen though.
34

Eve,

Scotland 30/06/2009 13:56:53
"Non-negotiable Mr Cameron" Thats what the referendum for Independence should be!!
35

fat lord prodder,

somewhere in alba 30/06/2009 14:26:52
ICBM
I incredible
C costly
B brown
M mistake

or incoming crappy brown message
36

Queen D,

30/06/2009 14:54:10
Inter
Continental
Bloody
Mess

or

Indescribable
Cretinous
Bilge
Minister

or

Insignificant
Conservative
Ballot
Minus
37

Sgian Dubh,

30/06/2009 15:07:54
In the late 70's, early 80's, the Labour party were dead set AGAINST the nuclear detterent, then Polaris. Margaret Thatcher couldn't get enough of it. Now, both Labour and Tories want it, and both want it based in Scotland.
Labour/Conservative, , , , Same Difference!



More Union Dividend
38

John S,

30/06/2009 15:29:39
What happened to the 11,000 local jobs that are dependent on Trident ?
Iain Gray,the Labour leader retorted: "Were we to cancel Trident, we would cut 11,000 jobs from the west of Scotland.23 April 2009
Jackie Baillie MSP has repeatedly claimed that 11,000 local jobs are dependent on Trident.
Eric Joyce, Labour MP for Falkirk, the SNP's proposal to lose 11,000 jobs that depend on the Clyde bases is economic madness.

What happened to that £5,000 a year voting SNP would cost Scottish families ?
In Glasgow Mr Blair and Mr Brown will warn that the SNP's promises, even without independence, will cost Scottish families £5,000 a year. Apr3, 2007
Wendy Alexander -at a cost of at least £5000 more for every family in Scotland each year.
Labour's Margaret Curran added: The Nationalists would cost Scottish families over £5,000 with their high tax plans.8 Apr 2007
39

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 30/06/2009 15:58:35
# 42 John S

"What happened to the 11,000 local jobs that are dependent on Trident ?"

It seems that someone at Labour Head office provided Mr. Gray with the latest figures for Labour party membership which he mistook as the the number of Jobs dependant on Trident.

It was an honest mistake, there was some confusion over the difference between the term "Jobs" and "Jobbies" which while they sound similar have very different meanings.
40

Electric Hermit,

30/06/2009 16:12:19
22
connaughtboy

"Non-negotiable Mr Cameron? We will see about that!"

He's right. Come independence, removal of foreign WMD stockpiled in Scotland will not be negotiable.

41

Electric Hermit,

30/06/2009 16:18:48
28
mr broon

"Like the outcome of the Second World War, the Yanks win again!"

One of the many reasons for secession from the union is the expectation that we will have a government which does not meekly submit to the US on everything. The only thing that is special about the "Special Relationship" is the fact that Washington is allowed to dictate the terms of that relationship. Witness the shameful extradition agreement.

42

Eve,

Scotland 30/06/2009 16:40:17
#41 Sgian Dubh: Where they? Is this another change in ideologyies for the Labour party over the years.

I though the Labour MP's did FA in the 1980's.

43

Proximaking,

Eberdeen 30/06/2009 17:35:01
The problem with getting "more bang per buck" is that huge swathes of southern England along the M4 corridor get hidden subsidies from the incompetent use of the defence budget. Use the budget more effectively and you'd need only one third of those defence companies and you'd have millions of Tory voters laid off, Cameron won't want that but if he is not lying about cuts and efficiency improvements he will have to do it.

I worked in my early years on the Trident submarine designs under the submarine improvement programme (SIPM) and we also did commercial work, we routinely used MOD(N) money to subsidse our commercial work because no-one ever bothered if the budget doubled so long as you had some half-assed excuse to give them. The problem is we have public schoolboys playing at soldiers and sailors and fighter pilots who haven't a clue how the real world works and don't care so long as they get their ridiculously high salaries and pensions for doing absolutely nothing. When you have more admirals than ships it is easy to see where the waste starts and ends. Get rid of jobs for the public schoolboys and the rest would look after itself. The LAST thing we need is another Trident with the new technologies being developed by Shell et-al.

http://royaldutchshellplc.com/2008/01/06/crackpot-or-genius-has-a-shell-boffin-stumbled-on-a-scientific-breakthrough/

http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/02/02/how-is-the-fake-candle-power-trick-done/ ..... amazing how many people slag something they have never tried and certainly don't understand. I am an electrical engineer myself and believe you me up to now no-one, but no-one, knows what electricity or mass actually is and it would be utter folly to spend one more penny on outmoded defence projects when these sorts of things are doing the rounds and being taken seriously by "the other side" if not by our public schoolboy upperclass twits.

Lions led by donkeys, ...... nothing ever changes does it? Eaw! Eaw!

Then
44

Proximaking,

Eberdeen 30/06/2009 17:36:29
Lions led by donkeys, ...... nothing ever changes does it? Eaw! Eaw!

Then again some people need to be needed even when they are clearly defunct but they shouldn't be allowed to spoil things for the rest of us. Do we really need someone sitting on a throne Lording it over us in this day and age with her enforcers ready to shoot anyone who dares suggest we just get rid? Not much of a democracy when our armed forces swear an oath of loyalty not to us or even our elected representatives but someone who has never worked an honest day in her life, and we wonder why the country is in such a mess.


45

Electric Hermit,

30/06/2009 17:41:00
48
Proximaking

"Not much of a democracy when our armed forces swear an oath of loyalty not to us or even our elected representatives..."

We can change that.

46

donald,

glasgow 01/07/2009 06:47:25
Non negotiable after Independence. Return to sender. No such zone.

 

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