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Nationalists set for major U-turn on local income tax concessions

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Published Date: 23 November 2008
THE Scottish National Party is moving closer to a major about-turn over controversial plans for a local income tax that will see stocks and shares income taxed and local authorities allowed to set different rates.
The prospect of Scotland's 32 councils being allowed to set their own rates will be a major policy shift for the SNP, which originally proposed to replace the council tax with a centrally set 3p income tax supplement.

A document seen by Scotland
on Sunday also indicates that the SNP is to agree to another major concession to the Liberal Democrats and allow unearned income to be taxed.

Holyrood ministers had previously focused on earned income such as salaries.

A third major concession under consideration is to exempt students from paying the new tax. Students currently do not have to pay council tax.

A Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (Cosla) document outlines discussions between councils and Government civil servants as the political parties wait for Finance Cabinet Secretary John Swinney's official response to a consultation on the tax.

It considers three main areas officials have been looking at – "exemption for students, local variation on the rate to be determined (downwards only)… and the inclusion of investment income to be taxed alongside an individual's salary".

The document backs up remarks made by Swinney last month when he signalled that he was prepared to alter SNP policy to win Lib Dem support and get the legislation through parliament.

The Lib Dems have long called for a local income tax with differing rates that can be set at local authority level.

Jeremy Purvis, the Lib Dem finance spokesman, said: "They (the SNP] are moving in our direction. It is a big shift for them. They fought the election on the basis that they were going to be proposing a national income tax that was centrally government set in perpetuity. But we would not accept that.

"The evidence is that they are moving towards us, and the civil servants would not have told Cosla otherwise in my view. I think that there will have to be further discussions between us but I am pleased that they have recognised that their proposal needed improvement."

Labour has argued that a local income tax will penalise hardworking families, while the Conservatives have called for a reform of the council tax.

The consultation on local income tax has so far produced 500 responses. Most of those from organisations oppose the proposal.

A spokesman for Swinney said: "The Finance Secretary has already made it clear that these are suggestions which are being looked at in light of responses to the consultation exercise on local income tax carried out earlier this year.

"Scrapping the unfair council tax and replacing it with a fair local income tax, based on people's ability to pay, is a popular policy, and we will be publishing an analysis of responses to the consultation exercise shortly."





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  • Last Updated: 22 November 2008 7:15 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

,

23/11/2008 01:13:38
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2

Edinburgh Noddy,

Edinburgh 23/11/2008 01:23:04
Variable income tax rates across Scotland, and all higher than the rest of the UK? How sensible is that? Wont it be cheaper then for HBOS to pay employees for the same net salary in Yorkshire than Scotland? As the numbers paying income tax will be less than paying council tax, for the income tax payers how likely is it that their reduction in council tax will cover the income tax rise? Or maybe it'll only be the high paying HBOS jobs which will leave Scotland. Result eh?
3

subrosa,

23/11/2008 01:26:57
Interesting change from the Scottish government. I wonder, if it truly becomes a local tax, can Westminster still withhold the money they insist is only for the community charge.


4

Millerman1,

23/11/2008 01:58:42
LOL.

Says it all about the snp, U-turn, more like failure.
5

Fifi la Bonbon,

23/11/2008 02:02:13
Community charge? I suppose you mean Council Tax.

Since The SNP proposals involve not collecting Council Tax, there is not going to be anyone resident in Scotland entitled to Council Tax Benefit. The SNP proposals involve levying an additional income tax on people resident in Scotland, so presumably that won't be payable by people on very low incomes.

The SNP should really negotiate a subvention from the UK treasury in lieu of CTB before they launch their proposal. Anybody would be for given for thinking they were looking to pick a fight!
6

,

23/11/2008 02:45:51
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7

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 23/11/2008 02:46:44
Many people voted SNP because of the LIT proposal and they should attempt to implement it. If there has to be concessions to the Lib Dem proposals this is hardly a Major U-turn, diversion maybe but certainly not a U-turn.
8

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 23/11/2008 06:51:34
Hardly a "U Turn".
9

Rufus T. Firefly,

23/11/2008 07:20:27
Why should additional tax be paid on share dividends and not savings?

What about shares held in ISAs?

Many pensioners use dividend income to supplement their meagre pensions. To tax them further is scandalous.
10

Rufus T. Firefly,

23/11/2008 07:22:01
Its another NatZ U-Turn.
11

,

23/11/2008 09:00:54
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12

,

23/11/2008 09:02:30
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13

TWC,

23/11/2008 09:06:52
Rufus, Fifi & Miller,
Still no Coucil Tax alternative from New Labour but the poodles will follow them anyway. In fact still no policies for Scotland at all.
14

,

23/11/2008 09:22:03
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15

alanh,

ek 23/11/2008 09:31:26
I know I'm thick but since it replaces the council tax and will mean people mostly paying LESS why would it be a deterrent for anyone?
16

Warden An' All, Reborn,

23/11/2008 09:38:11
Who would of believed it that the snp would be instrumental in another round of highland clearances. When the Tax is too high in one area people will move to another. The only sheep involved this time is the snp voter.
17

TWC,

23/11/2008 09:39:22
16 Union is ­Best
That's New Labour Tomb Tabbard Empty coats supported by Poodles who have nothing to offer. If big Brown doesn't dither too long and calls an election we'll all take votes off Labour.
The LIT is a policy socialists should support SNP are stealing our policies from under our very noses.
Wendy wanted more power now New Labour have gone back on that with their Calman submission.
18

tartan army 2222,

23/11/2008 10:00:22
The Scotsman calls it a U-turn. I would call it pragmatism and compromise. Not a bad thing when other parties can get the ruling party to implement their policies (in part).
19

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 23/11/2008 10:09:11
Glenrothes has brought the prolonged honeymoon to an end
and now the horse dealing will begin.
20

govanite,

glasgow 23/11/2008 10:29:52
It was always going to be this way. A supposed 'concession' to get the LibDems onboard.
A successful tactic too if this article is near the truth.
Well done Swinney.
21

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 23/11/2008 10:32:40
LIT properly applied will work properly!

If I have a concern at this positive development it is that this will not be applied throughout the UK from the outset, at least not until the next General election when its highly likely the LibDems will hold the balance of power. Only then will people realise the benefits we will get with a proper locally applied, locally administered and locally accountable LOCAL Income Tax.

So don't listen to those who fundamentally don't understand the concept and how it is designed to work to the benefit of the majority of citizens.
22

Wardog™,

23/11/2008 10:35:54


Let's get this right, Labour are attacking LIT because it may no include unearned investment income.

Labour actually think that the house you live, even if it's rented as 800,000 in Scotland are is a barometer of your wealth but yet they give second home owners a 10% discount.

People in Scotland will pay NO COUNCIL TAX

What is labour's alternative?

Property Tax.

A tax based on the value of your home.... even if you don't own it...... now that's clever thinking.


23

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 23/11/2008 10:39:24
Sorry I have deja vu - have we not heard this before ? I am positive we have. What is the big deal here ?
24

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 23/11/2008 10:40:47
18 Council Tax rates vary as it is, so what is your point caller ?
25

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 23/11/2008 10:44:44
5 Council tax benefit is paid for from general taxation and is our money. If the SNP choose to change the way they collect revenue to pay for local services then the people who cannot afford to pay their share are still entitled to a subsidy from the state, paid for by taxation. If the Treasury seeks to withold the money, they will be picking the fight.
26

,

23/11/2008 11:33:47
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27

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 23/11/2008 11:34:30
Difficult days indeed at the offices of the “Hootsmon”.

Here is an extract from an article from “The Scotsman”, 26 October 2008.

“Mr Swinney said: "We have already indicated the possibility of exempting students, and we are also considering applying LIT to income from dividends. There was never an issue of principle here, merely one of practicality and cost-effectiveness.”
28

,

23/11/2008 12:33:54
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29

Cracker06,

Livingston 23/11/2008 13:26:08
If unearned income is to included in the calculations for LIT then it now starts to make sense as those with income form dividends, etc was effectively getting tax cut which was to be paid for by those middle earners who seem to be every political party's cash cow. My one fear is the administration costs of applying possibly 32 different tax rates, to me it would make sense to apply one rate for the entire country until the system has the bugs worked out.
30

,

23/11/2008 14:26:50
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31

Cracker06,

Livingston 23/11/2008 15:11:16
32

That's a possible option - as long as we keep the Lib Dems from working out the details. Some of their big ideas seem reasonable and then they blow it by making it so complex to ensure it's "fair" that they alienate everyone.
32

dabharr playing ,

23/11/2008 15:30:54
The integrity of the journalists on this paper is getting worse !! To coin a phrase this article is a load of reheated mince.
33

ExpatBackinScotland,

Carnoustie 23/11/2008 16:11:27
If I read the snippet right, it said councils could very the tax "downwards only" (apologies if that is not the case).

If that is the case however, then, I imagine most councils will levy the 3p maximum menaing the level will be the same in many places.
34

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 23/11/2008 16:21:11
This is a sensible compromise by the SNP.

I wonder how long it will be before the Lib Dems make an equally sensible compromise on their anti Independence Referendum stance and enter a more 'formal' coalition with the SNP because it is in both their interests?
35

Rasco,

23/11/2008 16:34:33
#11Rufus Who is responsible for paying a meagre pension answer Broons Government.
36

Millerman1,

Ex-snp Voter (Once only) 23/11/2008 16:43:58
24#

Was this not a policy that you could not shut up about on the SH and H., business leaders and the public will be worse of big time under LIT, business would suffer the most and business leaders are very worried about LIT.

See you do not post much nowadays was it because of Glenrothes or was it because of Sam being spot on.lol., oh well you are not on your own alot of snp mouthpieces never returned, not that we are complaining.

How is old Melanthios?

The snp are finished this time, Glenrothes was the end.
37

Warden An' All, Reborn,

23/11/2008 16:53:15
26-Observer. 1-Council Tax rates do vary, and at first the percentage rate increase on Council Tax might seem you are losing a great deal against what the LIT rate might be.
On the other hand that percentage is against the tax you are already paying. The LIT rate is spread over all the wages you earn, and is likely to take out more of a lump sum.
What could be more interesting is what happens come the next tax year? When the cost of running the council increases and the LIT tax limit has been reached, where does the money come from to fill the black hole?

28-Union is ¬Best-An increase in your LIT rate covers all the money in your wage packet, your council tax increases stands for a smaller percentage of the money you pay on council tax over the year.
It wouldn’t take long for people to workout the degree of loss from their wage packet over the year.
It then wouldn’t take long for the people to feel the pain from council reductions if wages don’t increase in line with the costs the council has to pay to run the services.
The highland clearances of the past were generally by the poorer sections of society, but with LIT those with money would feel the benefits of the move first, increasing the degradation on those with very little.

30-Hugh Roscombe-“ Don'tcha just hate it when you've pressed the "Post Comment" button and realised you've made a complete twit of yourself?”-I’ll have to take your word for it Hugh, you seem to be the expert here.

38

,

23/11/2008 18:48:47
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39

,

23/11/2008 18:50:14
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40

Gtj,

23/11/2008 23:29:44
Nationalists set for major U-turn on local income tax concessions -

Is there someone at the Scotsman employeed to sensationalize trivial non stories?

Major U-turn, is that Scotsman dialect for slight compromise?
41

MGJ,

Edinburgh 23/11/2008 23:43:44
They can talk about it all they like but on a practical level, this is absolutely unworkable. HMRC systems are just not set up to have an additional 32 sets of tax codes, and there doesn't seem any other way of doing it, if you allow the tax to vary by council area. Council Tax Benefit is payed by a UK department to those paying Council Tax; the Scottish Governemnt have asked for the 'Scottish share' of that expenditure to be transferred to the Scottish block, but have been told no. Can't really see a valid reason for it, and it would save the DWP money in not paying it out.
42

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/11/2008 08:56:12
#38 Gibberish ! Can anyone else make any sense of Millerman's mince?
43

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/11/2008 08:57:32
#39 oh oh ! Warden is even worse !

Must be the same person.
44

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/11/2008 09:01:56
#43 MGJ (catchy moniker)

I think you meant to say:

"We cannae dae it! We're no allowed tae! We're too small! London will just get angry with us! We dinnae like change! etc etc"
45

john z,

edinburgh 24/11/2008 11:24:18
This is merely mature governance of Scotland by the SNP. Perhaps The Scotsman 'journalists' would like it to be like Westminster where one side bashes the other, and little progress is made, but the reality is, people in Scotland appreciate the mature considered responses the Scottish Government make.

Proportional representation actually encourages consultative politics, with old style Labour dogma thrown out, and a refreshing approach of doing what is best for Scotland, the Scottish Parliament is working well.

This isn't Westminster, and this isn't a U-turn, it is mature grown up political leadership - something which The Scotsman or Labour cannot quite grasp.
46

john z,

edinburgh 24/11/2008 11:27:16
Does anyone think we'll get an apology today from brown and Darling for creating the most monumental economic f**k up in living history??
47

Miss H,

24/11/2008 18:07:38
18 certainly not me. I thought the problem was that the SNP was proposing to take away the right of councils to set their own rate of tax. Now I find that the problem is that they are preparing to allow councils to set their own rate of tax.

It's a bit like the way in which the SNP's LIT is a tax increase which will cause people to flee the country to England and also a tax cut which will result in reduced local services.

It's all so confusing, you would need to be a member of the Labour Party to understand it. They are such intellectual geniuses.
48

David Sim,

25/11/2008 12:43:19
As previous commenters have posted, there has to be a balance between fairness and practicality. The original proposals were more practical. Now:

- A new burden will be placed on employers in Scotland to administer collection of the tax, complicated by differential tax rates across Scotland.

- Dividends are already taxed at source. Now investors in Scotland will be penalised compared to those in England. Expect some interesting schemes based around keeping dividend income in England to emerge.

- Differential rates won't help local democracy much any, as they will be capped.

Overall, middle income earners could find themselves with a triple whammy of new taxes: local income tax on earnings, a new tax on dividends and increased national insurance (doubled to 1% if you're unlucky enough to be a small business operating as a limited company).

 

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