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London's woken up to knife crime – we've had it all along


GLASGOW EAST BY-ELECTION

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Published Date: 08 July 2008
CONSERVATIVE leader David Cameron yesterday used the platform of the Glasgow East by-election to talk tough on knife crime, calling for anyone caught carrying a knife without a good excuse to be sent to prison.
But on a carefully stage-managed day where he spoke only to a few hand-picked Glaswegians away from the main media glare, Mr Cameron was accused of belatedly waking up to a problem that has troubled Scotland for many years.

A Labour MSP said the Tory leader was simply reacting to the recent spate of knife crimes in London.

And a hospital consultant told The Scotsman that knife crime had become "so common" in the west of Scotland that people hardly took notice when it claimed another life. Dr Rudy Crawford said the "upsurge" in stabbings in parts of England was bringing knife crime towards levels that Scotland had been experiencing for more than two decades.

The normality of knife crime north of Border meant that life had become "cheap", said Dr Crawford, an accident-and-emergency consultant at Glasgow Royal Infirmary.

Speaking at the launch of his party's campaign in the Glasgow East contest, which he described as "the broken society by-election", Mr Cameron said: "We are proposing that anyone convicted of knife crime should expect to go to jail.

"I don't believe that the government's 'presumption to prosecute' is enough. It doesn't send a strong enough signal. We need a 'presumption to prison'."

The announcement reflected a message that appeared to be talking over the heads of the people of Glasgow East, addressing issues such as crime, for which Holyrood, not Westminster, has responsibility in Scotland.

Glasgow Springburn MSP Paul Martin said knife crime had only come on to Mr Cameron's radar because it had become an issue in London, especially after 16-year-old Ben Kinsella was stabbed to death in Holloway.

"David Cameron claims he wants to be tough on knife crime and yet time and again he has opposed Labour's tough measures," Mr Martin said.

"The Conservatives in Westminster have consistently voted soft on law and order – including voting against tougher sentences for murder, sexual and violent offences, against five-year minimum sentences for carrying an illegal gun and against giving the police more powers to take DNA from suspects."

Mr Cameron was in Glasgow East to launch the campaign of his party's candidate, Davena Rankin, a single mother and trade unionist.

He met members of the Gallowgate Family Support Centre, but away from the media glare, and he did not go on a walk about.

He was accompanied by the former leader Iain Duncan Smith, who used the East End of Glasgow as part of the research for his document on solving the problems of a "broken society".

The locals were left unimpressed, with one woman commenting about Mr Cameron: "He's a nice laddie all right, but he's from a different planet."

Meanwhile, Westminster Justice Secretary Jack Straw announced that the UK government would review knife-sentencing guidelines that come into force south of the Border in less than a month.

The Sentencing Guidelines Council has published advice to magistrates that says knife possession can be punished by a fine in the least serious cases, such as when the weapon has not been used to threaten.

The call for tougher sentences for people convicted of knife crime clashes with growing calls from within and outside the Scottish Government for a massive reduction in the number of offenders sent to prison.

The issue of knife crime has been thrust to the top of the political agenda following the killings of 19 teenagers in the UK capital so far this year.

Dr Crawford told The Scotsman parts of England were "waking up" to the same problem of knife crime that communities in Scotland have long suffered.

Last year, 40 of the 73 murders in the Strathclyde Police area involved knives – and knife crime rates in Scotland remain about three times higher than those of England or Wales.

"England is experiencing a sudden upsurge in knife crime but we have been struggling with this problem for more than 20 years," Dr Crawford said.

"They're only just beginning to come to some sort of conclusions that we've been facing for a long time.

"The knife crime situation in Scotland hasn't really changed – it's been much higher than the rest of the UK per head of population."

Highlighting what he regards as a lower level of media and public attention on knife crime, Dr Crawford said: "Life is regarded as relatively cheap in parts of Scotland, particularly the west, predominantly because it happens in deprived communities."

He added: "It's hard to get reliable data, but if you look over the year, we probably average about two or three (knife assaults] a day, of which two or three a week will be serious or life threatening."

Salmond: We'll win poll on fuel costs

ALEX Salmond, the First Minister, predicted a "political earthquake" as he talked up his party's chances of defeating Labour in the by-election.

Launching the SNP's campaign, Mr Salmond declared his party was in a position to win – and if it did it would force Gordon Brown to change his policies on fuel tax.

"It will certainly be another nail in Gordon Brown's coffin," said Mr Salmond. "He'll change his fuel-tax policy and other unpopular policies that have brought Labour to this state of affairs before he changes himself."

Mr Salmond was in Glasgow to support the SNP candidate, John Mason, a Glasgow city councillor, and pointed out that Mr Mason got the largest popular vote of any councillor in last year's election.

The First Minister also said that Mr Mason would be "a full-time voice" for Glasgow East – unlike the Labour choice, Margaret Curran, who would remain an MSP. This drew criticism from Labour, as it was pointed out that Mr Salmond is an MP and MSP.

He dismissed the idea that he was fighting the election on the wrong issue – fuel costs – and should be concentrating on crime, a topic Labour and the Conservatives are pushing. In particular, they are claiming that 4,000 criminals will be released from prisons under SNP proposals.

The full article contains 1049 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

The Great Deception,

08/07/2008 00:09:10
Excellent news. Carrying a knife should be the same as using a knife in the eyes of the law.

Gordon Brown's reaction, erm, well, we'll maybe think about not just letting them off with a warning.

Jack Straw's reaction, order a review, when reminded one had just finished that hasn't changed the norm from a simple warning, erm, re-affirm what the review really meant.

Hope that these so called hard-men see the business end of the UK criminal justice system sometime soon. They've had ten years of hand-outs and shoulders to cry on.
2

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 08/07/2008 00:31:01
Brilliant idea Oh Great Deception.

Is that using a knife to stab someone or to spread butter?

Is that carrying a knife to go fishing or to take part in a gang fight?

3

The Great Deception,

08/07/2008 00:33:10
2 Liberal clown

The caveat is without good reason.

Brilliant idea, let gand members carrying a lethal weapon claim they are going fishing at 12pm on a Saturday.

You are the reason Britain's communities are rotting. Idiot.
4

The Great Deception,

08/07/2008 01:01:16
2 Liberal clown

I just realised, I attached some intelligence to your comments, but that was my mistake - there is none there.

I said those carrying a knife should be seen as using a knife in the eyes of the law.

Using a knife to go fishingis not a crime

Using a knife to spread butter is not a crime

Using a knife to increase status while loitering around street corners is a crime.

What the fork is your point?

Holding a knife SHOULD be the same as using a knife, if you can prove the use is legal then enough said.
5

,

08/07/2008 01:13:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

Conan the Librarian™,

08/07/2008 01:30:54
4
Is having a knife in your sock when you attend a wedding reason for arrest then?

5
Speechless.
Racism on racism.
7

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 08/07/2008 02:22:10
And what about a wee knife in yer pocket for sharpening pencils and gutting the odd trout?
8

bring them on,

08/07/2008 03:15:40
Why not just make it knifes that someone conceals.
9

frank mcbride,

lusitania 08/07/2008 03:34:14
#4 Great Deception.

You are right but, don't attempt to demean others' point of view.

There is NO JUSTIFICATION for carrying a 4/6 inch knife.

ANYONE found carrying the above should be gaoled. There is no justification for carrying such weapons.
10

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 08/07/2008 03:51:52
#9

For gralloching a stag - or in my case a whitetail deer - a knife with a 4/6 inch blade is pretty indispensable. I never leave home without one.
So are ghillies the reason for the great increase in blade crime in Scotland?
Only a London idiot like Cameron would come to Scotland and pull an ignorant stunt like this.

11

W Smith,

Middle East 08/07/2008 04:48:22
I blame Labour for the fact Scotland is now littered with dopey gullible politically correct Chief Constables who want to "forge closer links" with the muslim community - that's when they are not promoting a 'knife amnesty'.

The newly retired Strathclyde Chief Constable should consider his pension isn't performance related - he would be lucky to get 5 quid a month. Him and his knife amnesty.

Yobs will only respond to a good kicking - same goes for the Jihadists.

BTW
Kenny MacAskill is not much better.

Him and his "the full weight of the law will be applied".

Unfortunately our Kenny was talking to yobs who attack muslims not yobs who attack non-muslims.

Justice 'apartheid' eh Salmond?
12

bring them on,

08/07/2008 05:49:34
I blame labour for everything.
13

viking nz,

new zealand 08/07/2008 06:23:32
Am I missing the point here ?
14

yockel,

08/07/2008 07:02:07
4/6 inch would that be 17mm? No very big.
15

donald,

glasgow 08/07/2008 07:02:56
The Hootsmon should have done a comparative analysis.

Nobody in London cars if all the "Sweaty Socks" stab each other to death.
16

SouthernSkye,

08/07/2008 07:26:25
I assume by the banning of knives, or tha making of knives illegal to be carried or concealed we would see the sudden vast drop in crime rates as we did with gun crime when hand guns were banned?
It is not more laws that's required but more police and forceful application of existing laws. I understand carrying an offensive weapon or a concealed weapon is already illegal so why does anything need to change other than the rules being applied more strongly?
17

JG,

Fife 08/07/2008 09:23:09
It has always been an offence to carry a knife in public. And it was always the case that the person carrying the knife has to prove that, if he did possess one, it was for a legitimate purpose. That would cover the gamekeeper with his knife heading into the countryside of a morning. It wouldn't cover him being up the High Street at 10pm with the same knife in his inside coat pocket.
18

Auckland Arab2,

08/07/2008 09:32:32
The Labour MSP criticises Cameron and then fails to point out that knife crime has been rampant for 11 years under Liebour. And what steps exactly have they taken to reduce this menace? None. Liebour are all to willing to let crims off with a slap on the wrist and this is the result - more criminal behaviour. Cameron is simply reacting to the huge public outcry in London, not unreasonably. He is not in Govt and frankly those that have been in power for 11 years have no moral authority on this subject as they have presided over this problem getting worse steadily. Strong measures unfortunately are now required.
19

danielrober,

08/07/2008 09:47:34
When i was a kid i used out go to the market on Satuday and by some fresh fruit. Me and my mates would take out our penknifes and cut the fruit up. Lets face it, its impossible to eat water melon with out a kife. The police would chat to use and some times be very cool and have some melon as well. We also would head into some local woods and build dens, with our trusty knifes. Or we would use them to help fishing, it was great.

Then Rambo came out and some idiot, i can't remember how brough out a huge 'Rambo knife'. He runined it, he was an idiot, though a good mate. There's a knife a tool and then there are knives. Just like some people are criminals and most are not.

The laws need to get tougher on those who are ciminals, not everyone.
20

Miss H,

08/07/2008 09:59:21
There are actually perfectly valid reasons for carrying a 12 inch knife. As long as you notify the police beforehand there should not be a problem. It is people carrying concealed weapons that are the problem.



21

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 08/07/2008 10:06:04
We have the usual whining criticism from Labour.

Labour have done zilch - in fact they have positively encouraged crime. I'm all for the sensible application of this law. The alternative is that more people are pressured to carry knives in self defence because everyone else is (because there is no deterrent. Being cautioned is not a deterrent).

22

mediamon,

08/07/2008 10:09:38
Why don't we just legalise fire-arms and let these yobbish fools initiate the social-cleansing we need.
23

Miss H,

08/07/2008 10:17:50
21 There is no such thing as being cautioned in Scotland.

The key to stopping more people carrying knives for offensive purposes is better education in schools and more police. Which is why everyone - whatever their politics - should welcome the fact that there will be 750 additional police officers on the beat in the Strathclyde Police Force area within the next few years.

It's also why the SNP group - led by Councillor John Mason who is now the candidate in Glasgow East - moved an amendment to Glasgow City Council's budget to make sure that every single secondary school in Glasgow had a community police officer - campus cops as they are known.

Labour rejected that. How they can square that with their claim to want to do more about knife crime is something Margaret Curran will presumably be called upon to explain.
24

Geoff,

sa 08/07/2008 10:34:32
Why are the Tories standing in Glasgow East. AsI understand it the SSP stepped aside to add weight to the Nationalist vote. Surely if Cameron is as avowedly Unionist as he says, the Tories should step aside in favour of the only Unionist party with any chance of winning the seat? Surely nothing could be more important than the integrity of one's nation-the United kingdom in this instance? Not suggesting he should do it for nowt-exchange the favour with a Labour withdrawal where the Tories have a better chance of success.
Davena rankin is an attractive lady :)
25

Geoff,

sa 08/07/2008 10:38:20
Not giving you the old "ours is bigger than yours" story but knife crime in the UK is peanuts compared to what we have here in SA with 20 000 murders a year! The solutions to the problem are simple-harsh sentences for knife crime and a ban on the carrying of knives. What is lacking is political will.
26

mediamon,

08/07/2008 10:40:08
#25

20,000 a year! And without Buckfast!?
27

Geoff,

sa 08/07/2008 10:49:11
26 Mediamon-theres lots of lethal local equivalents!
28

mediamon,

08/07/2008 10:52:27
What we need is home brew that turns you blind. Cheaper and more available than buckfast.

Hopefully over time we will have a generation of nearly-blind neds. Then WE can dress up in hoodies and go round the schemes at night with metal baseball bats. Like musical pinyatas.

Bring on the cleansing!
29

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 08/07/2008 11:00:47
"21 There is no such thing as being cautioned in Scotland."

If you are not cautioned for carrying a knife in Scotland, what happens? Certainly not automatic jail sentences for mere possession - so what does happen?
30

JG,

Fife 08/07/2008 11:01:08
#23
Miss H
Thank you for the party political broadcast on behalf of the SNP. Is the 750 Police Oficers not Scotland wide, though?
31

JG,

Fife 08/07/2008 11:03:40
#29 Cauchy Riemann
You would be charged with possessing a knife in a public place - an offence in its own right. I suppose you could be fined.
32

ExpatNI,

08/07/2008 11:12:26
#24, Geoff,

'Integrity. . . . United Kingdom. . ' in one sentence! Ha Ha Ha
33

Miss H,

08/07/2008 11:16:47
30. No.
34

Miss H,

08/07/2008 11:17:55
29 You are either charged or not charged. If the police catch you with a concealed knife they would almost certainly charge you. But they would have to catch you first.
35

Puzzler,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 11:19:37
There is no reason for anyone living in a town or city to be wandering about carrying a knife, other than the kind of multi purpose tool provided with a swiss army knife. The blade is only about 3 inches long and would be virtually useless as a weapon. Exceptions can obviously be made for fishermen, ghillies, etc.

We all know teh kiknd of knives that cause damage. These are the razor sharpo instruments that belong in a kitchen, the metal combs fashioned into weapons fronm my schooldayts (1970s) and the offensieve weapons available in some so-called outdoor shops.

There is shop in central Glasgow where you can buy a knife that has no other purpose than to cause maximum damage to a human being for a tener. For £100 you coudl kit yourself ouit as a serial killer. Why is this place allowed to function?

A friend of mine who studied Kendo in Japan was awarded a set of ceremonial samurai swords as a gift by his teacher. Despite having blunted blades, he needed a specail liccenmse to import thenm and it took 6 months, yet anyone can buy a razor sharp"survival" knife in teh shop above for the price of a round of drinks. Go figure.
36

Gusto,

08/07/2008 11:30:58
"his party's candidate, Davena Rankin, a single mother and trade unionist." - AND a conservative??? what??? Is she black too??
Over auntie Maggie's knee and a good sound skelping, David maboy!!
37

Miss H,

08/07/2008 11:31:53
35 There are perfectly valid reasons to need a knife. For example removing lampost posters after an election - and by law we are required to remove them within a given time period.

What do you think we use to cut them down?

A wooden spoon?
38

Miss H,

08/07/2008 11:32:27
36 yes she is black though what that has to do with anything I am not sure.
39

M.Corleone,

2nd Vatican State...... Coatbridge 08/07/2008 11:38:39
Just a stab in the dark here, but was wee cameron not being too sharp in this?
Trying to knife Big Broon the Balloon's Balloon he was, razor sharp is ooor Dave, obviously following in the footsteps of Frankie Vaughan
40

,

08/07/2008 12:14:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
41

Shaken,

08/07/2008 12:21:08
#40
The east end of glasgow has 1.1% foreign immigrants

Lets take Glasgow East as a microcosm of what Labour can do given 50 years of power:

Average life exp - 62 (lower than Bangladesh)

50% of adults have no school qualifications

50% of adults are on benefits

The people who live here are so badly educated, so emmersed in crime and depravation that they continue to vote Labour!

Well done to Labour, the Union and all who support you.







Vive la SNP
42

Shaken,

08/07/2008 12:24:20
I also think cameron saying he'd lock up knife carriers (while campaigning in the east end) is quite funny.

Half the voters there carry knifes.

Not really appealing to his audience. Vote Tory. Get banged up.

lol
43

Doh,

08/07/2008 12:24:23


Vote blue, glow green.

Hug a hoody and shake him down for a jib.

Cut petrol taxes to improve the environment.


44

elizabeth the first ,

08/07/2008 12:41:59
42. Are you one of these "knife carriers"? Guess he was trying to appeal to the decent people of the area,he should of saved his precious time and breath.
45

hassan i sabbah,

edinburgh 08/07/2008 12:51:26
Go on wiilouby! Could you sound any more like a frightened wee racist if ye tried!
46

elizabeth the first ,

08/07/2008 13:08:26
41.Millions of pounds have been poured into Glasgow East,but you can't lead a horse to water and make it drink!
If the community will not try,why should the tax payer pour good money after bad.
47

hertscot,

08/07/2008 13:20:00
So, if you can't carry a concealed knife, how does my granny get her new bread knife home?
48

G,

dundee 08/07/2008 13:29:23
As a proportion of population Scotland has a huge knife problem, way bigger than the recent outbreak of (very media-visible) stabbings in London - what's the SNP doing about it??? Reneging on promises on police numbers!!!

And Miss H #37 Secateurs???
49

Gere,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:24:47
The present knife crime rate is a consequence of the constructive genocide programme implemented by successive British Governments and known as multiculturalism!
50

Shaken,

08/07/2008 14:35:12
Liz the 1st

I stay in the west end where I suspect (if you reside in Glasgow you also stay) Isn't it nice for people in affluent areas to pore scorn on the little people.

Have you actually seen the state of some of these places? Million of pounds indeed. If you had the misfortune to be born into a family living there you wouldn't cast such glib throw away remarks about the attitude and condition of the living there. Oh to have an ivory tower..

Kindly remove that brush from your derriere my dear.
51

elizabeth the first ,

08/07/2008 14:48:29
50. These "little people "as you call them,should get of their lazy butts,a days work would kill them,The majority are on either income support or incapacity benefit,if you want to make something of yourself you can,but these layabouts choose to drink and smoke themselves to death.
52

Shaken,

08/07/2008 14:53:24
G

Do you think more police means less knifes?

Do you think the police patrol the high risk areas of the East End where knife crime is most prevalent?

The answer is no.

The problem is one of proverty and hard drugs. The fact that over half the adults have no qualifications, claim benefits and are likely to die at 60 are completely and utterley the ills of labour who have this 'safe seat' for over 50 years. SNP could hardly do worse my friend..
53

Shaken,

08/07/2008 14:59:44
#51

Yep you read my post. Well done! Over half are unemployed, half aren;t educated and most will die by 60...

Labour - I salute you.

These 'layabouts' my cerebrally challenged friend may well deserve it. In fact lets say they do (they don't)

What of their children brought up in; let's face it degredation, what hope do they have?

Was it their fault their parents are junkies, that Labour, generation after generation let them down?

Over half the children born in the east end will leave school without qualifications.

You can leave this at the door of these 'layabouts' but like or not this is our problem. You know why?

You are a human being (despite evidence to the contrary)

Broom still wedged there Lizzie
54

elizabeth the first ,

08/07/2008 15:21:19
53. The oppotunities are there,you can't blame a political party or a government for that matter, if people want to waste their lives,both myself and my husband worked hard,now in our early 50's we are reaping the benefit of that hard work,our children are married and settled with good jobs,but they like us had to work for it,if these people have no ambition why should the tax payer support them.
55

Shaken,

08/07/2008 15:35:39
I feel your missing point Liz

In the one hand your saying the govt can't be blamed yet with the other ask the question of why the tax payer should foot the bill...after millions have been spent... (your earlier post)

Surely by your own rationale these 'millions' should have better spent?

Or perhaps you think these people are endemic to the problem? This money was spent on new schools and rehab centres only to be destroyed?




56

elizabeth the first ,

08/07/2008 15:53:59
55. And who destroyed them! The community that they were built for,so tell me why we should put even more money into a community that could not care less.
57

ThomasP,

08/07/2008 16:01:45
Elizabeth the first.

Your attitude is quite appalling. You have implied that these people are born equal to the rest of the country. The opportunites are not all there and should adopt a proper attitude which is a bit more constructive.
58

Shaken,

08/07/2008 16:05:13
Thanks Thomas much more succint than me!
59

jamurai,

08/07/2008 16:05:58
What a depressing thread. Am I the only one that finds pretty much all of the above shocking. Get over the political bias. Put your troll shoes away. Stop trying to make clever arguments for the sake of it. So what, it's an electioneering policy. Big deal. The truth (and is that not what matters here?) is that knives are bad and those who carry them are scum. Self defense? Well don't go out. My Granny is vulnerable.Yet she most certainly aint packing. And if you care to look carefully the caveat is "without a good excuse." Fair enough that is a sticky one. fishing etc...?? NO BRAINER. Let's formulate a statute defining the parameters of " a good excuse"...it's not that difficult. Certainly, getting pis*h*d with yer mates on a Friday night on the town is no place to be carrying knife.
60

jamurai,

08/07/2008 16:14:53
By the way, no.35 a kendo master with a blunt bladed "samurai" sword, would p*1ss his pants laughing if you came at him with a "razor sharp survival knife".
Point is ,irrelevant. Wether he (or she)has a license to possess it, as soon as he steps out holding it, slam him(or her) away.
61

jamurai,

08/07/2008 16:17:33
no35 apologies if I sound harsh, I completely agree with the main thread of your comments.
62

ruthie,

alba 08/07/2008 16:24:58
What's really scary is that, even although many people in the East of Glasgow have become worse off under LIEbour, they continue to vote for them because their faithers did. Continue to vote LIEbour and you'll always get what you always had. It's time for change. vote SNP and bring doon Broon!
63

elizabeth the first ,

08/07/2008 16:27:07
57. These people can drink, smoke, take drugs, but ask them to get a job,christ,you would have thought you had asked them to cut off their right hand,my husband came from a council estate,but he worked 12 hour shifts to make thing better for our children,he did,and now we are reaping the benefits.
64

elizabeth the first ,

08/07/2008 16:28:45
62. And what pray tell, will the snp do differant,bu--er all!
65

Media 1,

cape town 08/07/2008 17:30:40
How do we make things better for the children.

Well a good start would be to get their role models off their backsides and off to work, and to do that there must be an end to the dole system. All dole users should be forced to work for their money and a forty hour week of community service would be the best possible solution.
Once these lazy good for nothing a$$wipes are out of their beds in the morning and off to do a forty hour week of community service, it will offer then routine and it wont be long until they are looking for proper jobs, thus their children will begin to see the benefits.
Then you clamp down on discipline in schools and make sure the rules are adhered to. Expulsion for those who fail to take heed of the laws. Then you toughen up the jails and make them living hell holes. And you take away all the privaleges of the prisons as well as the hi-tech facilities and you use that money on building sports centres and better school facilities for the kids.
So lets get the lazy dole takers off to work, get the convicts sorted out, make the prisons tougher and ensure that the kids get better treatment than the criminals.
66

JG,

Fife 08/07/2008 17:32:48
#33 Miss H
So is that 750 new officers for Strathclyde + the 1000 for the whole of Scotland that the SNP said we'd see on the streets? Or is it just that over "the next few years" 750 Strathclyde Police Officers will retire and will be replaced
67

The Great Deception,

08/07/2008 17:37:03
65 Media 1

I have never heard such right wing BS. The only way is the SNP/Labour hybrid way. Don't you know that 60% of children in the East-End come from households where there isn't a playstation 3. Clearly we need to up the benefits.

When we give these clients of the state shelter, tax relief, a tv licence & tv, heating and money for food, not only do we neglect to add in a computer games allowance but they can't afford to feed their children with the money with give them FOR their child's food AND vodka and fags.

So the solution is as the SNP/Labour sugest, pay mum an extra £200 to encourage her to spend the money we give her free for her child on her child. And pay dad £50 to stop smoking.

Of course the reason Glasgow is a toilet is the citizens, it isn't the squirrels.
68

The Great Deception,

08/07/2008 17:41:36
I'd also like to add. Just because these clients of the state also get free travel around the country and free swimming/excercise classes/gym membership and free entry to art galleries and museums DOESN'T actually mean they should take advantage of our generosity and raise healthy, fit children.

It disgusts me that the right wing suggest they are not doing enough for themselves and their children.
69

The Great Deception,

08/07/2008 17:51:50
Re all those moaning about the life expectency. Totally agree, just because excercise at Gyms/baths/social excercise classes is free to these people and the travel there is also free, DOESN'T mean the state has provided them with a way to life a healthier life.

What type of barbaric world is this when we ask citizens to organise more than 25% of their own lives.

Surely in an oil rich country we can afford personal trainers and chauffeur driven limos for these fat layabouts?
70

Media 1,

cape town 08/07/2008 18:08:17
Lets get the scum ridden dole users off their backsides and off to work!
Lets get criminals sorted out. Dry bread and water for breakfast followed by an apple in the early afternoon. Dinner can be a bowl of soup with dry bread or a plate of peas and carrots. But nothing extravagant. No play stations, no Sky TV, no movies, no classes, no computers and no hope of leaving until the criminal has had as much as he or she can take.
Remove all the gym facilities and give it to the kids.
71

Eve,

Scotland 08/07/2008 21:33:25
What about chefs?

Frequently chefs carry there knife to and from work. Espeally if they are at college studying the likes of Hospitality it is common practice to take your knife home every night and bring them back the next day.

Not all chefs and trainie chef will have their own car and some will need to travel by bus. When you carring chefs knife you don't really want to draw attion to the fact your carring them incease people get the wrong idea. If a metal decetor was situated in a bus selter (as sugested in the new yeasterday)it would be Embarshing for someone (chef) who is just trying to make aliving.

Another problem with puting metal dectors in Bus sheleter is the proble that such deveses give to thoes with pase makers!!!
72

ruthie,

ALBA 08/07/2008 21:50:52
elizabeth, in answer to your question, the SNP have already done things that LIEbour COULD have done, just didnae bother their backsides to, like the council tax freeze, reduction in prescription charges, abolishing tolls etc.

Furthermore, the LIEbour candidate, Curran claims to want to fight for the poor, yet voted AGAINST scrapping council tax, voted AGAINST scrapping the graduate endowment fee, voted against new patient rights....etc oh, and how many council houses did LIEbour build? 6 was it?
73

ruthie,

alba 08/07/2008 21:59:22
You see,elizabeth i just don't buy it. The tories willfully tried to ruin Scotland and, frankly, New LIEbour has been no better.Here we have a party that is happy to waste billions of pounds on Trident, a PM who tells us not to waste food whilst he dines on umpteen course banquets and flies around in a private jet, not to mention the fact that he squandered Scotland's oil revenues (and yes, it IS Scotland's oil!) whilst Marshall, supposedly "representing" the people of Glasgow East, was lining his pockets with half a million pounds thank you very much, and that's just in the last few years that we know about.It's all about self interest with LIEbour as far as i can see. thank goodness we now have an SNP government inflictng POSITIVE change in Scotland's interests.
74

Hickory,

US 08/07/2008 22:09:06
Aye, I suppose any gentelman caught with a protruding instrument should be jailed? Heh? Maybe even outlaw pens and pencils. How about stones? Aye Jimmy, gimme
that long finger nail. It could be considered a weapon.
This slippery slope is getting steeper.
75

Angela Fraser,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 15:30:00
"Carrying a knife should be the same as using a knife in the eyes of the law."

I've carried a small knife since I was 18 because I was hitchhiking a lot in my teens and twens. I showed it *once* to someone who didn't want to take no for an answer, and believe me I was glad I had it at that moment. I've *no* intention of ever using it except if someone tried to attack or rape me. I don't drink, and don't try to get into fights, so it's just a matter of feeling a tiny bit safer than without. Most of the time, I forget that it's there, though it comes handy for opening parcels. Yes, I shouldn't need it, but rape statistics being what they are...

That does *not* make me a criminal, and I don't think I should be criminalised in a blanket measure just because drunken, aggressive or brainless idiots get off on stabbing people as a hobby and the media is feeding on it like a pack of vultures.

76

Vincent-W,

29/07/2008 08:13:17
media - you've only just managed to stop short of mandatory capital punishment - are you going soft?

Your sort of brutal and mindless approach doesn't work and it never will. It might make you feel happier in your revenge driven world but fails to deal with the issue in the real world.

 

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