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Keeping innocent citizens' DNA breaks human rights laws

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Published Date: 05 December 2008
NEARLY one million DNA samples on a national police database may have to be destroyed after their retention was yesterday deemed to breach human rights.
The European Court of Human Rights ruled that keeping DNA samples from people with no criminal convictions is an illegal invasion of privacy.

The ruling is a setback for the Home Office and police south of the Border, who have hailed the indefin
ite retention of DNA profiles from people arrested by police – regardless of whether they are then convicted – as a powerful investigative tool against murder, rape and other crimes.

It means England is likely to be forced to adopt the Scottish system, where police are only allowed to retain samples from people who are not just arrested, but charged and convicted.

However, the ruling could also have implications for Scotland – where ministers are consulting on an expansion of DNA retention to include people who accept fixed-penalty notices for minor offences. A Scottish Government spokesman last night said it would consider whether the judgment had any implications for Scotland.

The decision was based on a case brought by two men from Sheffield, who asked their local police force to remove their DNA from its records.

Michael Marper, 45, was arrested in March 2001 and charged with harassing his partner, but the case was dropped three months later after the two were reconciled. In a separate case, a 19-year-old named in court only as "S" was arrested and charged with attempted robbery in January 2001, when he was 12, but later cleared.

A panel of 17 European judges ruled the two men should not have had their DNA and fingerprints retained by South Yorkshire Police, as neither was convicted of any offence. They said keeping the information "could not be regarded as necessary in a democratic society".

They attacked the "blanket and indiscriminate nature" of the power of retention of data in England and Wales.

Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, said yesterday she was "disappointed" by the decision.

The database may now have to be scaled back following the unanimous judgment. The details of about 4.5 million people are held in England and Wales and one in five of them does not have a current criminal record.

Ms Smith said that the existing law would remain in place while ministers considered the judgment.

Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty, said the court "has used human rights principles and common sense to deliver the privacy protection of innocent people that the British government has shamefully failed to".





The full article contains 431 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 December 2008 12:59 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Guga II,

Rockall 05/12/2008 02:31:06
Another blow for the Stalinist, totalitarian control freaks of the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party.

Though, given their head, they would not be satisfied till they have all of us micro-chipped, with chip readers, and CCTV, on every lamp post and every street corner; as well as a huge central database with all of our personal details in it. Joe Stalin would have been very proud of them.
2

,

05/12/2008 05:41:03
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3

Pilrig,

Livingston 05/12/2008 05:52:19
2 - why don't they go the whole hog and microchip the population ?

"After all if you've nothing to hide....." etc.
4

Boy Wonder,

05/12/2008 06:47:36
I suspect our our bones will all carry a barcode one day!
5

Jim A,

05/12/2008 06:51:21
On the other hand maintaining a DNA database could help in say rape or raped then murdered cases, may help to nail the scumbag sooner. Could also help identify people who are missing who later turn up dead and badly decomposed. As for me I couldn't care if they had my DNA on file, don't have anything to hide so crack on.
6

Rodster,

Glasgow 05/12/2008 07:02:16
The point is that this government want to control ,spy and dictate our everyday lives to their bidding.
This measure is only one of many erosions of our civil liberties.
ID Cards, CCTV everywhere , speed cameras posing as safety measures when in fact it is purely for stealth tax raising.
The use of Terrorism Acts to spy on what people put in their bins .
The Smoking ban agree or disagree with smoking it is an invasion of people's right to choose.
Even the recent debacle in Westminster regarding Damian Green , another erosion of people's rights , as it now seems no search warrant used and some other obscure Labour invoked law used to breach a 400 hundred year protocol.
emails being read phone calls being monitored not just some but all,before you know it we will have cameras and sensors in every toilet in the land.
We are sleepwalking into a Police State.
7

Guga II,

Rockall 05/12/2008 07:55:02
#2 Vincent-W.

"Surely all the fingerprints, photographs or even written descriptions of people should also be destroyed."

Yes, if they are the fingerprints, photographs or descriptions of totally innocent people.

Or perhaps you agree to the idea of the police retaining the DNA of an 11 year old child that was found not guilty of some minor crime, as was the case with one of the men that took this matter to court.

We don't live in a police state, yet. though if the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party had its way, we soon would.

"Or perhaps Guga prefers to be unidentifiable . . . . "

Yes, he does. What's wrong with that? I haven't committed any crimes.
8

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 05/12/2008 07:55:49


Minority Report is jut around the corner.

I second Guga's comment. For those that have been only "SUSPECTED" of a crime should not have thier DNA held on record as in line with what we do in Scotland (after the real perp has been caught and convicted - are your reading this Vincent W or are you happy to not to and carry on with your silly line of argument?).

Hey, for those that belive in "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" crud, can me and the missus come round to your homes tonight and have a wee snoop around? After all, you have nmothing to hide, eh?

I take it you leave your doors unlocked as well, or do you lock them? Why do you lock them? Why do you close your curtains?
9

,

05/12/2008 07:58:45
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10

SouthernSkye,

05/12/2008 08:03:09
Did the police take, and retain, the DNA of MP Mr Green that was arrested? Be interested to know if he was treated differently to others!
This is good news. DNA of innocents being held on file is wrong.
11

SouthernSkye,

05/12/2008 08:11:57
9 Vincent-W,
...."Damian Green was involved in stealing papers from someone elses office. In my books that's a crime, it's theft...."

So was Brown when he was in opposition.He made his name by releasing "leaked" information. Without leaks the Govt can hide whatever they want. YOU might have nothing to hide but HMG DOES!

To the debate here. I agree 100% with Guga and Donnie and Co.
I also have nothing to hide. But;
1 - I do not trust HMG and those in positions of power especially in the way they handle (lose) personal data.
2 - My life, my identity, my DNA, my fingerprints, all these things are mine. They are NOT public nor Govt property. These are all pieces of me that make me whole.IF I ever commit a serious crime then I expect to lose all privacy because I crossed the line.
If that time never happens, as it will not, then I will keep my personal details private.
12

,

05/12/2008 08:20:27
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13

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 05/12/2008 08:20:50
Vincent-W @9

Yes, that is fine. His DNA was taken, he was a suspect then he was convicted. His DNA along with everything else should remain on record.

If he was a suspect and there was no DNA link and somebody else was convicted, his DNA should be destroyed as in line with procedures in Scotland.

You do get what is being argued in the article etc?
14

,

05/12/2008 08:55:05
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15

Number 6,

Germany 05/12/2008 09:20:22
Come on Englandshire, do keep up.
16

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 10:12:11

GOVERNMENT BURIES DATABASE STATE POWERS IN CORONERS BILL

http://www.no2id.net:80/news/newsletters/newsletter.php?issue=112

Even a wee article on Lordy F attending a meeting in
Edinburgh.

17

Dark Lochnagar,

Symington 05/12/2008 10:27:07
Keeping peoples' DNA is a step too far as regards civil liberties. I too have nothing to hide but the amount of survelance by the state is OTT and is way ahead of any other country in the world including totalitarian ones.
18

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 05/12/2008 10:53:07
Vincent W

I understand perfectly, but I'm not sure you do still.

These people were obviously still "suspects" and the crime unsolved and nobody convicted. Then there was enough evidence to convict them. Good, that's fine.

The ones that are NOT "suspects" should NOT have thier DNA kept. But thier DNA is still being kept. Or, those that were "suspects" but then cleared of being a suspect and somebody convicted of the crime should also have thier DNA removed from the record.

Do you understand that concept? Can I come round to your house to have a nose around since you have nothing to hide?
19

Dunfesterin,

05/12/2008 11:26:56
All those who say "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" - post your full name, address and salary here please.

After all what do you have to hide?


Also, I refuse to give my DNA away to the police when I have done nothing wrong. I believe my DNA is "me" and only "me", it is a part of me and it defines who I am, why should I hand that over to the state when I'm innocent so they can lose it on a train months later?
20

Dunfesterin,

05/12/2008 11:28:53
And as for the SNP "consulting" on retaining DNA after issuing fixed-penalty notices - don't do it Eck!

If you do, you'll lose the support you have, you'll be viewed to be just as authoritarian as Zanu Labour. I'll take my vote elsewhere and I won't be the only one.
21

,

05/12/2008 11:29:43
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22

,

05/12/2008 11:31:02
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23

vorlic,

lanark 05/12/2008 12:15:07
big brother has arrived.the peasants are the slaves of society
24

Scunnert,

05/12/2008 13:47:13
Finally the New World Fascist Order has been stopped in its tracks, and about time too. The SNP should be vey wary of going down this road. As number 20 - Dunfesterin says:

Don't do it Eck.
25

Jay Kay,

05/12/2008 14:11:13
Aye Goerdie Orwell got that slightly wrong eh! truth is if gordy gekko gets his way it will eb much worse.

What an awful man, him and Mrs Mathews would make a fine pair.
26

Dunfesterin,

05/12/2008 14:31:00
"Because, you dope, that means it is open to abuse by criminals"

But wait Vince, what do you have to fear?!! Nothing to hide nothing to fear, why not post your proper name and address?

On the subject of DNA, isn't innocent people's DNA open to abuse by bent police?

Last time I checked I paid the police's wages. Sorry, for a minute there I thought they were our servants, I must have got that wrong.
27

ddmc,

05/12/2008 14:44:19
with DVLA & other Govt agencies selling our personal details to any tom, dick & harry how long before they sell your DNA to insurance companies ? How often do we hear of civil servents & Govt departments who cant even take the most basic of protections when handling our data. Completely incompetent, another story of a Dr accessing news readers medical files. They expect us to trust them with a National NHS database, ID card database & a DNA database, if it wasn't so sad i'd ROFLMAO. You can't trust them & that's the bottom line, how many untrustworthy individuals may change database keys to point DNA records at the wrong person as has happened with fingerprints. There are already stories of CCTV personel losing tapes & video files for a fee.

Regardless of my feelings on data protection, there is nothing to stop the police running checks on arrested individuals DNA prior to any pending court case or before charges are dropped & they have to destroy the records. In fact that is how most old crimes are detected by DNA. The police will just have to do the search quicker, rather than rely on cold case squads track through the unsolved cases.
28

Iain's,

05/12/2008 14:59:01
No change. Once again English law has to change to Scots Law by order of England's supreme court in Europe.
29

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 05/12/2008 16:22:20
#21 "14,000 convictions in 7 years, equates to a heck of a lot of crime stopped."

According to some totally spurious Home Office figures. The same Home Office that has illegal immigrants working in the immigration department, has no idea where half its prisoners have gone, and couldn't hold on to confidential documents if they were made of glue and locked in a Velcro suitcase.

If the Home Office told me my c**k was on fire I'd get a second opinion before I looked for a bucket of water. Are you really such a gullible fool that you take their words at face value?
30

Mr A Roy,

05/12/2008 16:31:34
Jean Charles de Menezes had nothing to hide
The guildford 4 had nothing to hide
The birmingham 6 had nothing to hide
Colin stag had nothing to hide
Barry George had nothing to hide
The list goes on !
Nothing to hide nothing to fear eh ? Dont make me laugh !
31

Alan B,

05/12/2008 16:46:44
#Vincent-W

So would you want all the labour cabinet members arrested and prosecuted for the times they were involved in leaks?
32

Alan B,

05/12/2008 16:47:34
Until were get proper freedom of information then leaks are a necessary part of our democracy.
33

Alan B,

05/12/2008 16:49:43
#Vincent-W

I can agree with you about holding DNA to an extent. The problem is labour have abuse trust in government to such an extent that measures like id cards and this just is not feasible anymore.

It is only by having a neo facist government that i have woken up to the need for checks and balances in the system and not to trust that a democratic government will always do the best for the people and the country it serves.
34

SouthernSkye,

05/12/2008 17:24:06
12 Vincent-W,
"What about a written description of your appearance or a photograph"?

This should also not be held. If I am not a criminal the police have no need of my details.

"Why is it OK to retain one form of identification and not another"?

It is not OK. As answered above.


"What about false imprisonment due to wrong identification"?

This point is irrelavent. DNA samples are taken from suspects. When it is matched with that recovered at the crime scene...Et Voila! The criminal is caught. Those suspects who are not charged have their details deleted.

"If you condone Green then you condone all theft".
Like-wise if you condem Green you condem Brown and virtually every other MP! Which is it to be? I am content with either outcome. Actually, politicians...Hmmmnnn, yes, ALL guilty !

35

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 18:03:56
The Big Brother state by Stealth

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-big-brother-state-ndash-by-stealth-1050576.html

As per #20
And as for the SNP "consulting" on retaining DNA after issuing fixed-penalty notices - don't do it Eck!

If you do, you'll lose the support you have, you'll be viewed to be just as authoritarian as Zanu Labour. I'll take my vote elsewhere and I won't be the only one.

Agree..
36

A True Scot.,

05/12/2008 18:46:19
2

How many murderers today have been caught in the act on CCTV?
37

Ju@n Kerr - the ex labour sheep,

05/12/2008 19:27:41
The UK governments only mission is now too control it's citizens. I was reading on order order their now making dodgy changes too the UK banking legislation too allow them to print as much wonga as they like without any telling!

USSR here we come! Allready the pound is circa 1.42 too the pound, and the euro is 0.87 too the pound

The changes over recent years this government has made too banking laws and terror laws and mental health laws gives them complete control over your lives. It's like an insidious and stealthy takeover of the goverment. You can effectively be sectioned, locked up or jailed for terror offences at their whim.
38

Pilrig,

Livingston 05/12/2008 20:45:04
5 your DNA and your carcase belongs to the state.
39

Pilrig,

Livingston 05/12/2008 20:47:23
12 - including G. Broon with his raid on pension funds as well, I presume ?

 

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