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Inside Holyrood: Liberal Democrats offer SNP a chink of light on beleaguered local income tax



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Published Date: 21 July 2008
WITH most of the party hacks still "holidaying" in Glasgow East for the by-election, Holyrood has had all the life of a tomb this week, which is probably why the only real business there involved poking at the body of a policy many people thought was dead.
It was actually quite a significant moment for what is a flagship SNP manifesto promise. On Friday the consultation into the plan to replace the council tax with a centrally set 3p additional income tax, which the Nationalists describe as local, cam
e to a close. The responses that have so far been published, were not at all surprising – almost everybody ranging from unions to business interests to experts and other interested parties, have denounced it.

The only resuscitation provided was from a meeting of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, where Lib Dem and SNP delegates got together to support the principle of local income tax, but not the SNP's centralist policy.

And this is the basis on which John Swinney, the Finance Secretary, now hopes to breathe some life into the corpse by striking a deal with the Lib Dems.

But negotiations have been put on hold until the Liberal Democrats find a new leader and the two contenders – Tavish Scott and Mike Rumbles – have made it clear, along with the Greens, whose votes would also be needed, that the whole policy would need to be almost totally rewritten before they even consider backing it.

However, Mr Swinney and his colleagues were adamant they will press ahead with their policy, and point out that it has overwhelming support in opinion polls.

Which brings us back to Glasgow East. Why is it that the Nationalist candidate John Mason has not been shouting about local income tax in this crucial by-election?

The tax is supposed to be fairer on the less well-off and in theory should play well in a constituency which is one of the most deprived in Britain.

The reality is that Glasgow East shows the SNP plans would probably hurt the poorest most. Council tax benefit is so high in Glasgow as a whole that one in four households do not pay it anyway.

But the SNP plans will take at least £281 million out of council budgets – £70 million or more a year in Glasgow. Potentially a fantastic tax cut for those who pay, but possibly a catastrophic loss of local services for those who depend on them in places like Glasgow East as councils make their books balance.

Mr Mason is a committed Christian whose faith is entwined with his politics and as a result wants to see a redistribution of wealth to the poor. So perhaps he realises that local income tax is not something to shout about from the rooftops of Easterhouse.



The full article contains 483 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 July 2008 1:33 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Rodster,

Glasgow 21/07/2008 06:53:10
Seems this plonker David is trying to ruin the forums for all of us
2

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 21/07/2008 07:37:05
This is the most shockingly *openly* biased piece I've ever seen in the Scotsman. Usually it's a lot subtler than this - is everyone else out covering the election and the teaboy's been left at the keyboard?
3

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 21/07/2008 07:45:38
#2 I think today's spamming of the forums, while contemptible, is an understandable reaction to the no less contemptible and no more intelligent spamming AM2's suddenly undertaken with four days until the Glasgow East vote, in a remarkable burst of activity. He posts deliberately misleading propaganda and simply turns a deaf ear to facts which contradict it, even if those facts were provided by himself previously.

And his latest party trick of posting hundreds of lines of meaningless drivel and empty innuendo masquerading as facts ("Sturgeon ALLEGEDLY broke ministerial code over Go Ape planning application"; "Brian Souter MAY receive £3.3m in subsidies for the Forth hovercraft"), repeating some of them to pad it out to a greater length, is in fact basically the exact same thing as the hundreds of empty posts the spammers are posting.

I hold AM2's trolling responsible for the deterioration of the comments threads, going back a lot further than this weekend, and I think people have simply decided that they might as well play him at his own game.
4

Conway,

21/07/2008 07:48:23
How can Lit not benifit thoughs on low income? If you are not earning you will not be taxed whats difficult to understand about that.
5

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 21/07/2008 07:55:52
Who stands to benefit from this apparent attempt to stifle comments on this and at least one other thread relating to the by-election?

The Londonists of course!

They are obviously really worried now that they are on course for a bloody nose on Thursday, and will “do everything in their power” to censor adverse comment from “off message” contributors.

Buoyed from their success in having comments banned on the Herald site, they are now turning their attention to hijacking the Scotsman’s threads.

Pathetic!
6

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 21/07/2008 08:02:22
Meanwhile, Labour churn out populist policies designed to win hearts and minds in Glasgow East:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7516551.stm

"Benefit claimants could be forced to pick up litter and clean graffiti under plans to be unveiled by ministers.

Work and Pensions Secretary James Purnell said that the plans would "transform lives"."

You wouldn't ever want to stop kicking him in the face, would you?
7

Mikey,

21/07/2008 08:37:10
Looks like David Banks is an onanist, sorry, unionist and is trying to shift the blame for the destruction of the forums onto the Scots who post. Typical onanist double dealing.
8

,

21/07/2008 09:17:18
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9

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 21/07/2008 09:29:13
#10 Blimey. Does your doctor know you've stopped taking the pills?
10

,

21/07/2008 09:50:56
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11

Scottish 'N British,

21/07/2008 10:25:32
Scottish Nasty People, their levels of 'nastiness' increasing as D-Day (and defeat) dawns.
12

izzie,

dundee 21/07/2008 10:36:16
where have all the reasoned debaters gone?
13

Mikey,

21/07/2008 11:25:15
Well, we Scots can't say we didn't expect this. As the time for reckoning comes nearer, the real brain dead Labourites and loyalists come out in force with nothing to say but pure vitriol. Devoid of any arguement, they resort to nastiness. These are the people who, when they find they won't get their own way any more, will drag us into fighting in the streets.

It's time the Scotsman stood up against this rabble.
14

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 21/07/2008 11:25:43
#11 - Rev. S Campbell.

There is no point trying to reason with them. They are pathetic little minions of the unionist cause.

They may believe they are sofisticated political types but they are just spinless rats who play dirty tricks.

ZaNu Labour are past scraping the barrell of acceptable behaviour and are now clutching at straws.

In the real world people are talking independence and scotlands interest.

It will be the best gift we can give to our future generations.
15

Miss H,

21/07/2008 11:32:31
It certainly is not anybody in the SNP trying to close down the debate about the by-election because the story is utter nonsense and I for one would like to expose that.

If Labour chapped 20,000 doors over the weekend I am a unionist. They don't have the bodies to do that. And where they are chapping doors in GE they appear to be doing it at random. I don't know what is going on with their campaign to be honest but I have spoken to a number of people who told me that they were canvassed 2 or 3 times ON THE SAME DAY by Labour canvassers - different canvassers. The Sunday Times story at the weekend said that their electoral database doesn't work with Scottish addresses. In that case they would have been better off just using the electoral register. I can't imagine what they are doing but there is no way they chapped 20,000 doors.

As for opinion poll putting Labour on 52%. This organisation is now completely discredited in my view because they were phoning people in the wrong constituency - they were phoning people in RUTHERGLEN asking them how they intended to vote in the Glasgow East by-election. If they can't even get the constituency right what is the point in even doing the poll.

The only thing that is right about the coverage of the by-election is that about a third of voters are still undecided. That in itself shows that the poll putting Labour on 52% is wrong.

It is all going to come down to who can best swing the undecideds. And on that note I will bid you adieu and head off to help with that!
16

Scottish 'N British,

21/07/2008 11:53:48
"ZaNu Labour are past scraping the barrell of acceptable behaviour and are now clutching at straws."

Irony.
17

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 21/07/2008 12:10:54
#12 It's rather mystifying that you've somehow managed to read "Does your doctor know you've stopped taking the pills?" as "I want to kick you in the face". You REALLY ought to go and get a repeat prescription - don't you know the SNP have slashed the cost?
18

Shave,

Edinburgh 21/07/2008 15:16:33
#21 Rev. S. Campbell
"You wouldn't ever want to stop kicking him in the face, would you"

YOU wrote it, ya pathetic thug.

19

,

21/07/2008 15:23:18
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20

,

21/07/2008 15:47:15
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21

The Tin Man,

21/07/2008 16:07:56
The SNP's position that LIT should be centrally-set is almost do-able under devolution, where LIT = Scottish Block Grant minus Scottish Gov spending.

However, in an independent country, it then becomes meaningless. It would simply mean that all local government spending is funded by income tax, corporation tax, VAT, fuel duty, etc, etc, with no taxation that is transparently linked to local sending, at all - 'Big Brotherism'.
22

The Tin Man,

21/07/2008 16:11:27
"SNP plans will take at least £281 million out of council budgets – £70 million or more a year in Glasgow. Potentially a fantastic tax cut for those who pay, but possibly a catastrophic loss of local services for those who depend on them in places like Glasgow East as councils make their books balance".

I suggest that the government slash CT by £281MM right now, so we can all get used to it.
23

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 21/07/2008 16:17:26
And here WE supporters of the Scottish Nation just want to set our Nation Free to persue a more just and balanced Scotland for all.

The nonsense from the Unionist drones on these forums is yet further proof that they are nothing but bitter and frightened little Londoners who fear their masters are going to loose the Jewel in the crown, that has subsidised the British System for the last thirty years.

DONT YOU FELLOW SCOTS DARE TO WITHDRAW FROM THE BRITISH SYSTEM. HOW DARE YOU EVEN CONTEMPLATE THE THOUGHT THAT YOU ARE A NATION IN YOUR OWN RIGHT, WHICH IS FULLY ENTITLED TO DETERMINE YOUR OWN FUTURE. THE FRIGHTENED LITTLE PAID WESTMINSTER CONTROLLED NEW LABOUR PARTY MACHINE WONT LET YOU CONTEMPLATE SUCH A FUTURE BECAUSE THEY ARE THE NEW LAIRDS THAT KEEP US, THE SCOTTISH RABBLE IN CONTROL.

WELL SORRY, BUT THE GAMES UP THE POLL. LABOUR ARE THE BROKEN PARTY BOTH HERE IN SCOTLAND AND ENGLAND. LOOKING FORWARD TO DISMANTLING IT BRICK BY BRICK, NEVER AGAIN WILL SCOTS PRODUCE MP'S THAT END UP BEING MILLIONAIRES AS A RESULT OF KEEPING SCOTLAND UNDER THE WESTMONSTER THUMB.

LIKE THE REST OF THE SNP MP'S. MR MASON WANTS TO GO TO WESTMONSTER TO WORK TO SECURE SCOTTISH FREEDOM, WITH AN END GOAL OF RETURNING TO SCOTLAND TO BE A PART OF SCOTLANDS FUTURE INDEPENDANCE, VERSUS MARGARET CURRANS GOAL OF USING THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT AND THE PEOPLE, TO GET DOWN TO WESTMONSTER TO INCREASE HER PERSONAL WEALTH. CURRAN LIVES IN A £600,000 HOUSE IN GLASGOW SOUTH AND HAS ALREADY INVESTED IN TWO OTHER PROPERTIES THAT TAKE HER PERSONAL WEALTH TO OVER A MILLION POUNDS.

AND ALL OF THIS FROM AN MSP'S WAGES.

VOTE THE SCOTS WAY, VOTE FOR THE SNP BECAUSE THEY ARE THE VOICE OF EVERY SCOTTISH PERSON NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION, COLOUR OR ORIGIN. BRITAIN PERSECUTES MUSLIMS, WE SCOTS DO NOT AND NEVER WILL.
24

Scottish 'N British,

21/07/2008 16:49:00
30

With regards to dismantling the Union "brick by brick".

Whatever happened to another SNP promise, to match Scottish Labour/Scottish Lib Dem's school building programme "brick by brick"?

Should really have posed that one to Nikki herself, as she was the one who made that particular promise.

25

The Tin Man,

21/07/2008 16:59:03
#30

Fine, but I would think that the SNP's proposed £281MM cut to local government spending, associated with LIT, will hit the poorest people in Scotland the hardest.
26

,

21/07/2008 17:34:26
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27

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 21/07/2008 18:11:37
#23 I'm a coward? So "Dane Bramage" is your real name, is it?
28

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 21/07/2008 18:12:58
#25 "But, do you condemn the desire of Rev. S. Campbell, to give AM2 a sustained Mugabe-style kicking?"

That's a Mugabe-style interpretation of reality, dear. The phrase in question of course referred not to AM2 but to James Purnell. Or do you know something we don't about them being the same person?
29

,

21/07/2008 19:02:08
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30

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 21/07/2008 19:26:43
"Anything to muddy the waters"

Yeah, that pretty much sums up your approach to the issues. Got no arguments and no debating skills, so start crying about non-existent threats of violence, or name-calling, or whatever, to draw away attention from the moral bankruptcy of those you'd have us ruled by. Go away, little anonymous coward.
31

,

21/07/2008 19:47:03
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32

An Greumach Mor,

Highlands 21/07/2008 19:55:29
#41 Dane Bramage SNP Insider

I wonder what your problem is?

Did an SNP supporter steal your girlfriend ?
Did your Mummy not hug you enough as a small child?
Did Alex Salmond bully you at School.

You have a irrational fear of Scottish independence and I wonder where this comes from.

Stand up man. make your point like an adult and stop whinging like a pathetic little labour lap dog faking false morality and offence. Have you lived in Scotland all your life yet find it offensive to hear such remarks. Where did you live ?

Have you no sense of humour. Are you that sensitive.

Also if you are going to spend all day trying to make a false point try and make it slightly more complex to prove wrong.

All people who read your posts and then check what was stated in comment #7 clearly see you are once again and true to form talking utter p1sh.

No one posted they wanted to assault AM2. It was a comment about in the circumstance of having initiated kicking james purnell that it would be mighty difficult to convince yourself to stop.

At least AM2 makes and effort with his dark arts of misinformation. You on the otherhand are a fannie posting utter nonsense.
33

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 21/07/2008 20:00:39
41 Dane Bramage SNP Insider

Even your name is pathetic. In fact much about you is pathetic. You are quickly becoming one of the people who posts I just skip over as I am sure many others do.

If you had any back bone you would take a name, make a comment and stand by it. But you can't stand by what you are saying. Even you know it is total nonsense. You are maybe embarrassed about your posts.

Scrolling through constantly watching for any comments.

Do you have an opinion. I do and I post and stand by mine. Like an normal person.
34

,

21/07/2008 20:03:01
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35

,

21/07/2008 20:10:15
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36

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 21/07/2008 20:30:13
#43 Yeah, and your point is?
37

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 21/07/2008 20:47:02
#46 & 47 Dame Bumwich (had the SNP inside her)

This is the level of your posts. From todays Scotsman on the "Sunday in the park without george" article.

66 Dane Bramage SNP Insider,,21/07/2008 20:14:29
SNP SUCKS!

Oh! please master share some more of your clever understanding of the world.

I have been reading your posts all week. So please do not bother taking the moral high ground. You often post utter nonsense that takes up time to read and ignore over and over again.

Other people are obviously more polite than I when it comes to ignorant little turds like you. They ignore you.





38

,

21/07/2008 20:49:46
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39

,

21/07/2008 20:52:35
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40

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 21/07/2008 20:57:23
#47 Dame Bumwich (had the SNP inside her)

I am still laughing at you. And you are still pathetic.

Anyone can read your posts. Anyone can see your name.

You are a fool. You are just to stupid to realise.

Puppet or Muppet is the only unanswered question about you.

Goodnight.
41

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 21/07/2008 21:00:45
#55 Dame

Did you go tell on me.

42

,

21/07/2008 21:07:25
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43

,

21/07/2008 21:29:18
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44

democracy,

Scottish Borders 21/07/2008 21:32:24
RIGHT!! Lets get back on message!!!
The SNP Government to go straight ahead with their manifesto pledge and totally ignore the tiny little nothing Lib/Dem.Party, they had their chance and blew it big time! As usual, politically naive.
45

,

21/07/2008 21:32:45
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46

,

21/07/2008 21:54:44
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47

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

21/07/2008 22:04:25
#62 David Banks

Are you related to the Great Gordon Banks, one of our finest Footballers.

Remember that save against Pele.

Two World Wars and one World Cup....The Dambusters, Battle of Hastings, 1960-666, The Henley Regatta, Badminton Horse Trials, Cricket on the Village Green, Tea with The Vicar....

....By Jove we showed those Frenchies what-for at Agincourt....and will do the same with the SNP on Thursday.

Down the SNP, victory to the human race on the 24th!
48

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

21/07/2008 22:08:31
#62

What ever #63 is....he sure isn't me.
49

,

21/07/2008 22:08:48
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50

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 21/07/2008 22:16:37
#57 Dane

Are you really an SNP Insider ?

It means "Big Graham"
51

AM2,

Scotland,UK 22/07/2008 00:23:45
#3 Rev. S. Campbell

You made that up. What sort of reverend are you, anyway?
52

AM2,

Scotland,UK 22/07/2008 00:24:19
#8 MacGillicuddy

Your suspicion is false.
53

AM2,

Scotland,UK 22/07/2008 00:25:21
#9 Dane Bramage SNP Insider

I think you're going too far with that one. It was clearly the work of a lone nut - Ford Transit aka David Banks aka McPravda blog.
54

AM2,

Scotland,UK 22/07/2008 00:25:59
#58 Tripod

He's not. I am.
55

donald,

glasgow 22/07/2008 09:42:28
The Lib Dums would rather support their Labour chums and the unfair Cooncil Tax.

 

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