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Published Date: 28 August 2008
IAIN Gray, the Scottish Labour leadership hopeful, has taken off the gloves to launch a personal attack on Alex Salmond, in a bid to show he is the man to take on the First Minister.
Writing in The Scotsman ahead of tonight's crucial hustings in Glasgow, Mr Gray said Mr Salmond was a juvenile bully who used playground tactics.

His campaign team hopes this will show Mr Gray has the style and ability to tackle Mr Salmond, and an
swer critics who suggest he cannot stand up to the First Minister.

Mr Gray has claimed Scotland is "let down" by the First Minister's tactics in the parliamentary chamber.

"Scots who like his confident and ebullient approach to leadership would be shocked to see how readily that becomes graceless bluster and bullying," he said.

"Attacking opponents by coining nicknames for them is a childish tactic more suited to the playground than a parliament. To pretend to read from his manifesto and change the wording to pretend a promise was never made is to treat that parliament with contempt."

He also slammed Mr Salmond for calling Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, "a feartie from Fife" and former Sun editor Kelvin Mackenzie a "tube".

He added: "Perhaps the strangest of Mr Salmond's juvenile jibes came when he responded to a book he did not like by pointing out that Scotland's patron saint was real, while England's was only a myth. Perhaps he was joking, but it sounded like 'My Dad is bigger than your Dad'."

He also said you could tell when the First Minister was telling a joke "because he was usually the first to laugh".

Mr Gray insisted the way to attack Mr Salmond was to concentrate on his poor grasp of detail and show how he "makes policy on the hoof".

He added: "We should confront the First Minister's playground politics, and confound him on the serious ground."

A source close to Mr Salmond described Mr Gray's words as "the height of silliness" and suggested the former finance minister should "lighten up".

He said: "The Labour Party are past masters at political insults – usually directed at each other.

"He should try telling us something about himself and the Labour Party for a change, rather than continually obsessing about the SNP.

"Mr Gray has just confirmed that Labour are now nothing more than the anti-SNP party. With nothing positive to say, no wonder they are trailing us by 19 points in the polls."





The full article contains 417 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 August 2008 9:15 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

8/10 Cats,

28/08/2008 00:03:34
Well, this sums Salmond up.

Elderly care worse.

Policing the same, promise broken.

Prescription pledge fudged and rewritten.

Student debt pledge fudged rewritten broken.

And on... and on.

Like the barking dogs on here, all Salmond can do is go woof woof yap yap when someone asks a probing question. Or filibuster his way out with some irrelevant personal attacks on the questioner.

Yes, Alex Salmond is a bully and a charlatan. I can't wait until the proles who read hello magazine and vote for him finally realise.
2

8/10 Cats,

28/08/2008 00:07:27
I love how when asked to respond, the SNP just confirm Mr Gray's assertions by making some irrelevant insults about Labour and him.

If only more Scots read the papers and watched BBC parliament, they would get rid of this charlatan sooner.
3

Brian S,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 00:13:00
Best up your dose of medication me thinks.
4

Guga II,

Rockall 28/08/2008 00:17:45
Talk about a total hypocrite. Gray states: "Attacking opponents by coining nicknames for them is a childish tactic more suited to the playground than a parliament." He then proceeds to call wee Eck a playground bully.

The man is obviously so thick that he cannot see that what he is doing is exactly what he is accusing wee Eck of doing.

As for claiming that wee Eck has a "poor grasp of detail", that actually shows that Gray is the one with a poor grasp of detail.

If this is the best that the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (North British Branch) can come up with, i.e. hypocrisy and lies (condition normal), it is little wonder that they are planning to bury the bad news when they lose the Glenrothes by-election.

5

,

28/08/2008 00:17:53
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6

8/10 Cats,

28/08/2008 00:18:22
3

Ok. Your SNP, I criticised the SNP using fact based evidence and you call me mentally ill, supporting the point I made about the SNP on her going... woof woof yap yap.

The SNP and all their ilk just bark like dogs. No respect for Scotland at all.
7

,

28/08/2008 00:18:36
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8

Brian S,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 00:21:04
1 2 6

I suggest you get yourself out the house more.
9

,

28/08/2008 00:23:12
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10

Jimmy Le Pie,

28/08/2008 00:23:16
From today's Telegraph,


"The Tories have accused the Government of "policing on the cheap" after the numbers of civilians given police powers rose. "


Has AM2 been given these powers????

He seems to have the power of censorship!!!

We MUST be told!! ;-)
11

,

28/08/2008 00:27:18
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12

,

28/08/2008 00:31:41
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13

Darien,

Panama 28/08/2008 00:35:38
You Iain Gray would revel in being another puppet Quisling of Westmonster, just like Dewar, McLeish and McFlannel afore ye.

"We should confront the First Minister's playground politics, and confound him on the serious ground."

In yer dreams.
14

Matt there,

somewhere 28/08/2008 00:47:58
"IAIN Gray, the Scottish Labour leadership hopeful, has taken off the gloves to launch a personal attack on Alex Salmond, in a bid to show he is..." a hypocritical clown.

When (if) he gets the job he'll be falling off his big clown boots and accidentally pushing his own face into the cream pies of Nu Labour Clowndom!

Oh, the hilarity!
15

vitesse_skye,

portree 28/08/2008 00:56:48
sorry but i met the first minister this week and he is no bully. he is too afraid of his wife to be that. reference GB being a feartie fi fife......i believe it would stand up in court in a libel action given the past 12 months indecision. As for kelvin mackenzie being a tube? i cannot agree with that. tubes are useful for things. K mck is what would happen in a blackhole when he takes a sharp intake of breathe he disappears up his own sphincter. Then the sun would go out and we would all have to read the sport to get any proper information of our world
16

democracy,

Scottish Borders 28/08/2008 01:06:16
8/10 Cats, I read your comments and I do worry about your mental state,I ask other posters to look at each of your posts and then collectively at them, and I'm sure they will spot the same thing as myself.

You are totally blinded by hatred for Salmond and the SNP, you haven't got anything constructive to say, you are so obsessed with the charm and guile and expertise of the man, you cannot even think straight and your party, and others, just can't take him on, you dont seem to have an answer to this wily seasoned campaigner.

You must try and be less emotional,that is a woman's trait, you must toughen up and take him on like a man, face to face, head to head, think quick on your feet.

But what you must NOT do is blame Alex Salmond or the SNP for all your parties short comings and failings and bear in mind it was the electorate who kicked you out of office and put in your place the SNP and you would do well to remember that!!
17

Darien,

Panama 28/08/2008 01:09:44
#16 Bang on! Alex comes across as a normal everyday guy, Hearts fan (same as me), punter, chicken madras, oil economist, big smile, optimistic and HONEST. That's why most folks north o' Berwick love him to bits, apart from the fact like many Scots he has pride in his country (Scotland that is) and believes we are capable or running our own nation by wirsels rather than needin 'looked efter' by Britisher Bulldog Broon an his ilk.
18

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 28/08/2008 01:16:11
Yikes, the Gray/Maddox Juggernaut doesn't seem to be picking up much Mo here. Where's the parade? The pipe band's coach must be stuck in traffic.
C'mon Labour acolytes bring out your dead.
Yer getting yer @ses kicked here.
Sign of things to come I fear.
19

somerferg,

perth 28/08/2008 01:20:40

#18 - for the most part I agree with you except of course having a go at womem for being emotional. If the alternative is sounding like the fruitcake at #1/2/6 then I'll take emotional any day. Slainte.
20

Robbie 2,

28/08/2008 01:35:45
8/10 Cats may I repeat a post?
Like one Gorgie_Tony (sounds awfy like you) instead of spending so much time in negativity about a minority government who only had their budget passed a few months ago.
Why not go positive and enumerate all the wonderful things unionist parties have done for Scotland in the past umpteen years. Why did Scotland (used to be along with Ireland)have the highest emigration rates (per capita) in the Western world.
Scotland has a long way to go and the biggest difficulties will be the negativity and the demonization of the Scottish Government by the extremely bias Scottish media and the likes of you, Gorgie_Tony and others.
If you would study the positive aspects of sovereignty then at least they could come up with reasoned arguments instead of adversarial comment just for its own sake.
In economist Schumacher’s famed book, ’Small Is Beautiful’ he observes,
“…if we make a list of all the most prosperous countries in the world, we find most of them are very small [UN figures substantiates this] whereas a list of all the biggest countries in the world show most to be very small indeed”.
This 8/10 Cats & Gorgie Tony is a FACT.
21

,

28/08/2008 01:43:01
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22

Embra Don,

28/08/2008 01:45:25
I hope Alex Salmond did not read Gray's piece before turning in this evening. I'm sure it would have kept him awake with worry.
23

subrosa,

28/08/2008 01:53:59
If this is the best Ian Gray can come up with then he may as well give up now. His language is the level of a primary child and he should try to temper his hatred of Alex Salmond as it obviously clouds his vision.

Did I say vision? Ooops sorry, he's got none of that either.
24

Robbie 2,

NZ 28/08/2008 01:59:26
22 Robbie 2 correction
In economist Schumacher’s famed book, ’Small Is Beautiful’ he observes,
“…if we make a list of all the most prosperous countries in the world, we find most of them are very small [UN figures substantiates this] whereas a list of all the biggest countries in the world show most to be very poor indeed”.
25

walter,

28/08/2008 02:19:35
I remember watching the Scottish parliament about a year back and Gray ripping Sturgeon to bits, I though then why is he not the leader on Labour in Scotland instead of Alexander.
26

,

28/08/2008 03:14:28
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27

An Beal Bacht,

28/08/2008 03:46:15
Iain Gray - he da man. Hoo Harr.
28

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 28/08/2008 04:31:26
8/10 cats, your a genius! right how long would gray last if he becomes leader? 6 months 4/1, 12 months 6/4, 18 months 4/6, this is my guess? 8 months and resigns due to family? 1/5 on
29

karinxxx,

28/08/2008 05:38:09
I dont here ian gray complaining about the labour MPs at westminster. At least unlike them our first minister uses jest which his opponents cant handle labour MPs on the other hand are just out and out abusive.

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1032151/Did-minister-Cameron---ing-toff-Commons.html




30

Pilrig.,

Livingston 28/08/2008 05:55:10
6 - and Nu Lab have ?
31

Pilrig.,

Livingston 28/08/2008 05:57:56
28 - they all wanted Wendy, so much so there wasn't a leadership contest. Nor was there one for Broon as well if I mind right.
32

donald anderson it's me,

weegieland 28/08/2008 06:18:27
Gray Squirrel heads for extinction.
33

Earman,

Dumfries 28/08/2008 06:19:15
Ideas, Mr Gray.....you and your Party badly need IDEAS. The level of negativity still pouring from the Labour Party is unbelievable. It is as if the last 18 months in Scottish politics has never happened. This ridiculous attitude from the official opposition at Holyrood - yes, that really IS what they are supposed to be - must leave all rational thinkers breathless.

It can only be a matter of days before Labour give themselves a good shake, rub their collective eyes, and declare, in Bobby Ewing-fashion, that everything that has happened since the Holyrood election has been a bad...a VERY VERY bad dream.
34

donald anderson it's me,

28/08/2008 06:20:31
"Gray derides 'playground bully' Salmond"

Wasn't that Kerr;s bum of the month quote?
35

tommy M,

28/08/2008 07:11:34
haha! Hey, Girning Gray, "Bring it on!"

By the way, is it true that Tavish came out of the tunnel at Meadowbank to cheering crowds of...oh, about 20 people?
36

tommy M,

28/08/2008 07:13:39
It is a shame that girning gray fails to comprehend that we now have a popular SNP government in Scotland, popular not least because they are putting Scotland's interests first.

New liebour is finished.

It's time.
37

morris,

edinburgh 28/08/2008 07:25:14
4
Guga II,
Rockall 28/08/2008 00:17:45

You don't sound very surprised of course!Neither am I.

I have noticed for a while now, that whenever Labour accuse anybody of anything, it invariably turns out that THEY are in fact guilty of doing just that,and since denial is no use(it happened and everybody can see it) the mentality of " a big boy did it and ran away" thereby hopefully diverting heat from them ,is actually their serious attempt at politics!

They actually believe that the art of deception of the people who elected them, is an honourable position apparently.

Lies are a part of political life.Anybody who thinks that politicians should be honest and accountable is living in cloud cuckoo land according to New Labour.

They are everything that one should NEVER ELECT!

They are self preservationists and some can barely read and write.Im not saying that we should treat people badly because of their limitations,but Im also saying we should not let them run the country!
38

morris,

edinburgh 28/08/2008 07:33:37
36
Earman,
Dumfries 28/08/2008 06:19:15

You can safely forget about any ideas!

Ideas are Gordon's department.The thinking is done in Westminster and the branch office just does what its told.The problem is Head Office aka Maggie Broon knows even less about what needs to be done !
39

Nikostratos,

28/08/2008 07:41:29
#36

"Maggie Broon"

behind the times aren't we morris it is Alex Salmond who said "we did not mind thatchers economic policies"
so remember its maggie Salmond leader of the snp scottish nasty party......

40

Nikostratos,

28/08/2008 07:42:07
42 for 41 and not 36

41

mr angry,

ayrshire 28/08/2008 07:57:15
#42, still peddling your inaccuracies, that one has been well proven to be rubbish. Get a life and post something truthful or is that impossible for labour supporters.
42

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 07:57:29
8/10 Cats writes:-

“Yes, Alex Salmond is a bully and a charlatan. I can't wait until the proles who read hello magazine and vote for him finally realise.”

Ahh, would that be “proles” in the Marxist sense, in which case it would encompass the vast majority of the electorate?

Or is it a rather poor attempt to use terminology, which you do not really understand, in what you consider to be a derogatory manner?

As far as “Hello” magazine is concerned, I have to admit to being generally unfamiliar with the usual content of this publication.

However, perhaps with your greater knowledge of the subject matters covered, you could inform the rest of us “proles” why reading it would be symptomatic of being a SNP voter?
43

Stepford Nat,

28/08/2008 08:05:24
"Mr Salmond described Mr Gray's words as "the height of silliness" and suggested the former finance minister should "lighten up"."

Y'know, I became a nat for 3 reasons, one of which was the stunning wit displayed by SouperAlex in exchanges like this

www.snp.org.uk - the depth of silliness
44

Linda,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 08:22:41
Scotsman editor and headline writers should realise they are alienating 50% of their potential circulation.

Misquoting Chris Hoy as merely the latest attempt to attack the SNP and Scottish Government.

Even Daily Record had decency to quote Chris Hoy's comments The 32-year-old said: "I feel a bit upset that I have been quoted as saying the idea of a Scottish Olympic team is ridiculous.

"If and when a Scottish team was put together, I would be delighted to represent Scotland in the Olympic Games.
45

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 28/08/2008 08:28:35
#1 any evidence to back up your assertions?
46

brownlie,

28/08/2008 08:29:39
49 The Spook

Morning, Spook, what are you doing up so early? Did you have to put your white coat (and Waitrose bag) on and let 8/10 and Stepford Nat out of their jackets?

Nikos,

Go and eat your rusks and don't mess up your bib.
47

BIG EYE,

Paisley 28/08/2008 08:31:45
50.

that's the problem with this type of manipulatiion.

Its always going to get exposed and when it is the reputation of the original journalist and publication is diminished.

It sadly happens every day in the Scotsman these days, it makes no commercial sense whatsoever.
48

,

28/08/2008 08:35:14
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49

tog,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 08:40:10
If you want to know what Alex "hairdryer" Salmond is really like ask members of the SNP. They only put up with him because he gets results.
50

Linda,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 08:50:51
Read Lord Foulkes paean to Gordon Brown under Burning Issue
51

gus1940,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 08:53:09
Can The Scotsman still legally be called a newspaper?

Given the free space given to the 3 Stooges in the run up to their election of the next candidate for political hara kiri should it not be redesignated as The Official Mouthpiece of The Labour Party In Scotland?
52

MoClana,

28/08/2008 08:58:08
So Ian Gray takes the 'gloves off' and starts hurling personal remarks against Salmond bwahahahaaha is this serious?
Is that the best angle he has to come at Alex Salmond, dont tackle him on policy tackle him on name calling!

.....even funnier is that this rag reports it as news!
53

Nevsky,

Moscow 28/08/2008 09:00:50
59:

Did Salmond call 'Kelvin' a 'tube'..haha brilliant.

54

Nevsky,

Moscow 28/08/2008 09:01:37
59:

See the Times yesterday for an article on the serious trouble the Scotlman is in.
55

Michael,

28/08/2008 09:13:14
The extraordinary part of this is that this report must amount to the highlights of Gray's ramblings yet the Scotsman still expects people to pay to read his "essay" in full. What kind of mad fantasy world are they living in? And why, as other posters have asked, are they so determined to offend and alienate so many of their potential customers / audience?
56

Nikostratos,

28/08/2008 09:13:56
#45 mr angry,

maggie Salmond own words....nobody else

"One of the reasons Scotland didn't take to Lady Thatcher was because of that. We didn't mind the economic side so much."

And them makes big deal of not inviting a 82 year old woman suffering from dementia to tea..what a man what a bully.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7579352.stm
57

Number 6,

Germany 28/08/2008 09:17:59
More purile sniping from the unionistas. This imbecile Gray should realise he is fighting a losing battle. Scotland has had enough of liebour whinging.

The Glenrothes by-election will be a Water-shed in Scottish politics. Defeat will herald the end of this awful party North of the border. Not a moment too soon.
58

brownlie,

28/08/2008 09:24:35
64 Nikostratos

Nikos, old chum, the same Mrs Thatcher had nothing to offer little 82 year old women with dementia but neglect and disdain when she was in power.
59

SouthernSkye,

28/08/2008 09:25:44
Politicians are all as bad as each other. I have no party stance on this issue I just think that name calling and derriding from ANY party or any politician shows them to be lacking in information, lacking in policies and lacking in respect for each other and their constituants.
I don't want spin, I don't want name calling, I don't want lies.
I want truth, action and policies !
60

Calum10,

28/08/2008 09:29:21
Quote: He (Iain Gray) also slammed Mr Salmond for calling Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, "a feartie from Fife" and former Sun editor Kelvin Mackenzie a "tube".

Well it is the truth, and I see nobody disagreeing with Salmond's descriptions. After all it is been confirmed that the Glenrothes by-election has been pushed back to November and that Broon will not be making campaign visits to the town.

Broon is just a coward - he sends Scottish troops to die in Afghanistan and Iraq but is too afraid to visit Glenrothes.
61

subrosa,

28/08/2008 09:40:16
# 38
'By the way, is it true that Tavish came out of the tunnel at Meadowbank to cheering crowds of...oh, about 20 people?'

You mean Lavish Tavish? Aye it appeared so on TV. Even Brian Taylor of the BBC was part of the 'in crowd' I noticed.

62

Linda,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 09:45:14
In the next sentence Alex Salmond went on to criticise Maggie Thatcher's economic policies.. suggest critics read the full article and not rely on misleading headlines passed on to press by Labour spin doctors.

Brown and Grey sums up lacklustre Labour these days.
63

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 28/08/2008 09:47:36
David Maddox and the Scotsman seem to be the main cheerleaders in Iain Gray's campaign. I note that neither Andy Kerr nor Cathy Jamieson have received quite the same coverage.

As for the ridiculous 'teacher'/'playground' metaphors, they reveal David Maddox as a hack journalist with little imagination and Iain Gray as a politician who is more interested in spin than substance. It seems a bit bullying itself and I think he is coming across as being of a particular brand of old Labour that many have no desire to go back to.
64

Miss H,

28/08/2008 09:50:07
2 You could not insult Labour enough the way they are carrying on. What is it going to take to make them get a grip?

The fact that the person who is most likely to be the next leader of Scottish Labour has nothing to bring to the table except personal attacks on Alex Salmond is absolutely pathetic.

They must know that it will not have the slightest impact on Alex Salmond but more importantly it will not have the slightest impact on the electorate.

Labour are in serious danger of collapsing entirely if they cannot get their collective heads out of their own backsides and see the bigger picture.

Believe it or not I would regret that. I do not want to see the SNP's only effective opposition coming from the Tories.
65

Steve,

Bo'ness 28/08/2008 09:50:29
Is this from the same Labour Party that had an extremely childish cartoon of boy-Salmond in his bedroom on their official site, during the elections? YES,BY GOD!!! It is!

LABOUR= RANK HYPOCRICY
66

Senga Jean,

28/08/2008 09:53:22
Yes,Alex Salmond is fat but a diet could sort that. Thank goodness he is not stupid because that stays with you. Eh,Cool cats?
67

ochone,

Sauchie, clack's 28/08/2008 09:58:33
Ah but at least he gets his leadership election expenses right and there's no problem over his constituency office, by the way if he's that bad how come Wendy, who we were told was akin to genius couldn't deal with him? and wasn't theres ome poll or other that should that as far as the public were concerned he was the 'bees knee's' and they like dthe was he stood up for Scotland.

Keep up the good work Labour

68

Andra, Dundee,

28/08/2008 10:04:06
The Scottish parliament does not seem to attract the caliber of person required to run our country.
Is this one of the problems of living in a small country?
69

brownlie,

28/08/2008 10:11:12
76 Andra

Yes, Andra, the benefits of being leaders in a large country is illustrated by the leadership in the USA and China.
70

PL,

28/08/2008 10:12:47
I'm SNP but I just think it would be SUPREMELY wonderful is this guy becomes Labour leader (seriously, I can't be bothered scrolling up to find out his name).
I don't think I've ever read one newspaper article which so perfectly encapsulated the stupidity of a politician. He SO doesn't get it, SO x 10000000.
"He also slammed Mr Salmond for calling Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, "a feartie from Fife" and former Sun editor Kelvin Mackenzie a "tube"."
Generally, when you're going for righteous indignation, you don't want the reader to laugh at the thing you're criticising... He thinks he can beat Salmond by attacking everything that's made him a super-popular leader -- including a more informal, populist style.
This Labour dunce would be a gift. I think it's very telling that even the SNP press officers are better than Labour leadership contenders, scoring hits:
"The Labour Party are past masters at political insults – usually directed at each other."
Labour needs the Scottish equivalent of Blair -- not a centrist but someone to embrace the enemy while stopping short of independence. That could cause problems -- here's hoping the Unknown Politician wins.
71

Miss H,

28/08/2008 10:15:57
76 No Andra - the Labour Party does not seem to attract the calibre of person required to run our country.

In my opinion the problem has been one of complacency.

They are no longer complacent but have yet to work out how to be effective.
72

Calum10,

28/08/2008 10:29:25
#78

Iain Gray as prospective Labour leader is another disaster waiting to happen.

Gray is indecisive, a ditherer like Brown.

Gray is very nervous on TV, that eye-twitch will give Labour handlers nightmares.

Gray has no style, unless you include boring as stylish.

Gray is not voter friendly, you can never imagime him genuinely joking with people on the doorstep.

Gray is charisma-free and a policy-lite politician.

Iain Gray is simply a remote-control politician, controlled by London.

73

Alan B,

28/08/2008 10:33:17
#Andra

Why does Westminster not attract the calibre of politican either then?

Are the US leaders been top drawer?

Lets face it the worst set of politicians in the sp by a country mile is labour. They are quite dreadful. This is for a number of reasons eg anyone could be elected as a labour politician in scotland for so long. The whole ethos of the party is wrong.

With regard to westminster lets face it most of labour, most of blairs cabinet have been poor. While i accept many liked blair i personally found him to be a low quality politician. The only labour minister i would rate would be cook and reid (and Smith but he died before serving). Most are truely awful. Harman, Prescott, Mandelson, Blunkett, Clarke.

In the 2 decades of tory rule who were actually top quality politicians. Hesletine and Clarke and that is about it. Most were poor, old duffers like hurd and howe, bambots like tebbit and riddley, and others like mellor, alan clarke, baker.

74

John Jamieson,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 11:07:47
As far as I can see Gray is afraid of facing Salmond in the SP and is making his excuses in advance.
FMQs was nicknamed "the seal clubbing" by the media when the brilliant Wendy was posing the questions, what will it be like if Iain Gray is struggling to string a coherent question together ?
75

Ananurhing,

28/08/2008 11:09:10
Gray is sounding like the playground sap with a petted lip. This is before his impending humiliation at the hands of Salmond. Next whipping boy please!

What a prospect. Iain Gray, and Tavish Scott. Both from the " We cannae govern ourselves" camp. This is confirmation that neither the Libdems or Labour have any response to the SNP. Same old same old business as usual. Nothing to say, and nowhere left to go.
76

Nikostratos,

28/08/2008 11:16:15
#66 brownlie

She was wrong to behave that way then twice as wrong to behave that way now even to her.

Great speeches of the 20th century

Winston Churchill: We shall fight on the beaches.

J.F. Kennedy: Ask not what your country can do for you.

Nelson Mandela: An ideal for which I am prepared to die.

. Franklin D. Roosevelt: The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

Emmeline Pankhurst: Freedom or death.

Martin Luther King: I have a dream.

Jawaharlal Nehru: A tryst with destiny.



Alex Salmond:"a feartie from Fife"


Alex Salmond:"a "tube".


Alex Salmonds inspiring speeches to be read 50 years from now.



#83 Hoots" You don't know your Fan from your dango,
77

The Honest Lad,

Musselburgh 28/08/2008 11:36:26
Does it not get on anyone elses nerves how Alex Salmond never really answers a question?

I cant believe people are taken in by his ceek!

78

morris,

edinburgh 28/08/2008 11:50:35
I think what Grey Gray man means is Salmond can knock the living daylights out of anything the Labour Party have got including Mr Bean,and he does not even have to try very hard!

He knows that he will be shown up for what he is.,
a Westmonster muppet.

He and his cohorts will be the only ones saying Yes to Bean, left in Scotland soon!
79

pehman,

sussex 28/08/2008 11:59:44

Someones missing the point here

Alex Salmond is for real, he's not just playing at being a good 1st minister. He is the best 1st minister we've ever had
80

pehman,

sussex 28/08/2008 12:10:09

86 Nikos,

You missed out a couple of real beauties by wendy

Bring it on, and the one that brought the Nation to its knees (in fits of laughter)

No further questions

81

pehman,

sussex 28/08/2008 12:14:08

PS, I very nearly forgot that epic-the hungry caterpillar
82

Alan Reid,

nz 28/08/2008 12:15:38
86 Nikostratos, What Churchill said on Gandi: : "I wasn't going to be speaking to some w o g dressed like a coolie"
83

Vivas,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 12:36:09
I bego to differ Hawkeye #89, The Northbritishman has achieved plenty this past year. It's driven away former paying readers like me for good, taken another irrepairable hit to it's circulation figures and recast itself as Scottish Labours propaganda sheet. Not bad going for just one year ! ;-)))
84

Arrow,

edinburgh 28/08/2008 12:47:04
#86
you missed out

"what the f**k was that?" Mayor of Hiroshima 1945

"they won't be able to shoot me from that dist......" American Civil War General
85

Ananurhing,

28/08/2008 12:55:57
#100 Hoots

What about Blair's " Now is not the time for soundbites, but I feel the hand of history on my shoulder."

Swiftly followed by Broono's bedaggered clunking fist between his shoulder blades.
86

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 28/08/2008 13:05:39
Just a small technical point.

Now that the Hootsman now appears to be controlled by a Far East moneybags,(se Times article) should it be more appropriate to rework the banner in light of the new ownership framework reality.

And rebrand it as the "Malaysiaman"?
87

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 13:12:27
I am not a fan of Ian Gray but there is a valid point to be made here. We have entered an era where juvenile name calling and insults are being used instead of proper debate. Even worse these names are not even particularly humourous but are repeated ad nauseam by people who obviously do not have the originality or the wit provide something more pertinent. Just look at the usual ones on this site Liebour, Mr Bean, Maggie Broon, Westmonster, Quisling etc., etc., etc, (yawn)
88

,

28/08/2008 13:12:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
89

,

28/08/2008 13:31:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
90

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 28/08/2008 14:16:23
#106 Ugly

There is nothing juvenile about "Quisling".

It has very serious connotations and describes some (not all) Unionists perfectly.
91

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 28/08/2008 14:33:16
Update:

The Malaysiaman's new governor and Forbes list billionaire Ananda Krishnan (AK as they call him around Kuala Lumpur)just happens to be (wait for it) a Tamil.
Aren't they those independently-minded folks from Sri Lanka??
Should David Maddox be told?
92

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 14:36:41
110 Connaughtboy
Quisling acted in conjunction with an invading army to make himself the unelected leader of his country. He played a part in the deportation of Jews and the execution of other Norwegians who resisted the Nazis. He also assisted in the formation of a Norwegian SS. Can you name one Unionist with whom this can be compared.
93

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 14:56:19
113 Hoots
Only when she had too many milk stouts.
94

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 28/08/2008 15:00:29
Maybe Broon could talk old Ena into standing for Labour in the byelection.
They're not exactly coming out of the woodwork to throw themselves on the rocks like Mags Curran.
95

Shaken,

28/08/2008 15:02:57
Riddle me this pro labour supporters

In an unbias media why is the Labour wannabe leader allowed to write an article crtiquing the SNP and Eck?

Do you find any SNP contributers to this rag?

No - Oh well. I leave you to your ignorance. Just keep on belieiving everything your told.

Weapons of mass destruction anyone?
96

brownlie,

28/08/2008 15:22:15
86 Nikos

You forgot Thatcher's vomit-inducing quote from St Francis of Assisi:

"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony"

and, on the sinking of the Belgrano

"Rejoice, Rejoice!!"
97

democracy,

Scottish Borders 28/08/2008 15:39:30
#21 Somerferg, I agree with you, I meant it in an old fashioned way, where women were perceived as showing emotion and men were stiff upper lipped and agree it does not really apply to modern times!
There was no intent to denigrate women in any way.
98

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 28/08/2008 15:56:54
I think that the process of name-calling is inevitable. The opposition and the media are in such a surreal dimension right now that such satirical devices are invited.

Neither Gray's nor Tavish's launches have had any impact. There's no substance, nothing.
99

democracy,

Scottish Borders 28/08/2008 16:15:45
Someone once asked me what the New Labour party stood for, so I told him;

Unsuccessful,unproductive,fruitless,futile,purposeless,
useless,worthless,ineffectual,inefficient,pointless,
incompetent,inept,incapable,inadequate,hopeless,bad,
kaput.....................I forget the rest!!
100

Sunrise,

Fife (Yes, I get to Vote in the By-Election) 28/08/2008 16:46:35
My feeling is that Iain Gray probably is the best of the Candidates for "The labour Leader in the Scottish Parliament". But, as a long time socialist, I find it incredible that this group are the best that Labour can offer the Scottish people.

Yes, John MacDougall will be sorely missed. There are not too many of his stamp left in labour

And, why do MPs, MEPs but especially the Unions have a Vote on who becomes "The labour Leader in the Scottish Parliament"- not “the Labour Leader in Scotland” for if that distinctively Scottish entity actually exists it is currently held Gordon Brown.

But does it matter who gets the job anyway as he/she will be constantly undermined by out-of-touch Westminster MPs and London based Cabinet Ministers. Then he/she will have to deal with Mr Salmond on a daily basis.

I pity the poor sod......
101

Nikostratos,

28/08/2008 17:15:42
#120 democracy,

kaput... from a nationalist well we all know the association don't we..say no more

#117

when at war you kill the enemy...seems axiomatic to me
102

Doh,

28/08/2008 17:25:07
#116

Isnt Georeg Kerevan the SNP candidate for Edinburgh East?




103

morris,

edinburgh 28/08/2008 17:27:46
50
Linda,
Edinburgh 28/08/2008 08:22:41

How true.

When the PRESS in Scotland produce crud like this,knowing fully well that it has no basis whatsoever and that will become obvious(in this case from Chris Hoy himself) its time to look for a new editor!
Preferably one who has some credibility left,and there are precious few contenders as far as I can tell.
They wonder why their circulation falls too!

People want newspapers,this is the opposite .
Its a NOT NEWS PAPER/ Misinformation Propagator
Even the Weegie looks good compared to this paper!

ABSOLUTELY GUTTER LEVEL.
104

Andrew D,

bne 28/08/2008 18:01:07
I never said it at the time but that whole pile of stinking stuff about Salmond saying Thatcher was not bad at all (as misreported... hell, not even that, made up! by the press) just reminded me of one thing alone and it's a Simpson's reference.

"Smithers, you're... quite good! At, turning ME on?"

It has the same level of reality as Smithers' PC start up sound.

This latest though, Labour have obviously decided that positive means lying and slandering with a smile on their clenched teeth rather than a girn.

Still Glenrothes is hostile territory.
105

Geoff,

sa 28/08/2008 18:13:43
102 Arrow-and what about "Apart from that Mrs. Kennedy,how did you like Dallas?" Tasteless I know but very funny.
106

mr angry,

ayrshire 28/08/2008 18:17:21
#64 , think if you put the complete paragraph in you will find that you are completely wrong, or cannot understand English.

The SNP has a strong social conscience, which is very Scottish in itself. One of the reasons Scotland didn't take to Lady Thatcher was because of that. We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all.
107

Miss H,

28/08/2008 18:33:46
64 and 127 The unedited exchange was as follows:

ID I perceive that the SNP has changed a lot in the last ten years. The Conservatives were seen as a terrible enemy by you and the SNP was seen to be a very left wing party by the Conservatives. It seems to me that you have copied Bill Clinton – I’ll be careful where I go with this analogy – and tried to create a big tent for the SNP, so you can attract ex Conservative voters who had previously felt put off by some of the more left wing ideas of the SNP.

AS I suppose I have tried to bring the SNP into the mainstream of Scotland. We have a very competitive economic agenda. Many businesspeople have warmed towards the SNP. We need a competitive edge, a competitive advantage. That side of SNP politics – get on with it, get things done, speed up decision making, reduce bureaucracy. The SNP has a strong, beating social conscience, which is very Scottish in itself. One of the reasons Scotland didn’t take to Lady Thatcher was because of that. It didn’t mind the economic side so much. But we didn’t like the social side at all. One of the most famous phrases in Scottish history is the ‘Community of the realm’ – I used it earlier. This idea that there is a community of interest stretching across the population. It’s a very Scottish concept and Scotland doesn’t like people who regale against it.

ID Doesn’t that illustrate the problem that Scotland is seen as having quite a big public sector, a bit too much of the Nanny State, and as the country of Adam Smith it is no longer seen as the country of enterprise. Or am I betraying English prejudices by even daring to suggest such a thing?

AS I think you are betraying Adam Smith. He was not just a friend of economics. He was a moral philosopher. Margaret Thatcher had only ever read the Penguin edition of Wealth of Nations and she missed out the moral sentiments. I would absolutely defend the reputation of Adam Smith against the Adam Smith Institute.

ID You’re a better m
108

Davie from Irvine,

Auld Irvine Toun Ayrshire. 28/08/2008 18:50:00
56 Tog Im an SNP member and have met Alex Salmond, and find him friendly good company, your comment that members only put up with him because he gets results are off the mark, although i agree he does get results as does Nicola whom i know well.
109

WHISTLEBLOWER,

gdgdg 28/08/2008 19:41:12
Plenty of playground bullying from Mr George Foulkes.
110

Nikostratos,

28/08/2008 19:55:55
#128

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=104149



I have said that a sense of common obligation is the foundation of all three pillars of liberty. Ultimately, it is the willingness of its citizens to acknowledge a sense of responsibility towards their fellow men that distinguishes a free society from one dominated by licence and anarchy. Love of liberty, in the words of the English critic, William Hazlitt , is the love of others. Free men recognise the limits placed on their freedom by the needs of others. They know that the problems of their neighbours cannot be ignored. Any society or community in which selfishness is unrestrained will finally lose its freedom.
111

Team Scotland,

FC UK No! 28/08/2008 20:04:22
Winston Churchill:

On Gassing the Kurds -
"I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes."


Margaret Thatcher
Social conscience:
"And, you know, there is no such thing as society."

greatest achievement.
"Tony Blair and New Labour. We forced our opponents to change their minds."


Tony Blair;
Referendum -
"I believe a referendum is right so that people can decide what is the best electoral system for the country."

A man of substance -
"A day like today is not a day for sound bites, really. But I feel the hand of history upon our shoulders. "

Honest to a fault.
"The document discloses that his military planning allows for some of the WMD to be ready within 45 minutes of an order to use them."

Magnanimous on Salmond's victory
" "

Gordon Brown:

Thatchers vision.
"I think Lady Thatcher saw the need for change,"

Shoulder to Shoulder on the Union.
'I stand with people like Mrs Thatcher, who believed that the Union was important to the Conservatives. I believe the Union is important to the Labour Party

Iraq:
"I take my responsibility as a member of the Cabinet for the collective decisions that we made, and I believe they were the right decisions


Alex Salmond:

“It is a war built on lies that has fanned the flames of international terrorism,”


"Those whom the gods seek to destroy they first render ridiculous, and this shambles leaves Gordon Brown looking totally ridiculous."
112

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 28/08/2008 20:08:43
Well, at least Iain Gray did not call Salmond a separatist. Ian Lang used to bully Scotland when he was in charge of it. Labour managed to use negative campaigning against the SNP when they WERE in power. They were bullies too.

Gray comes over as a sulk who doesn't like the challenge he has been told to face by his master - Broon. He has to win the poisoned chalice and take on the man he is feart of.

So he comes out with negativity. So Labour, so predictable, so yesterday.
113

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 28/08/2008 20:52:16
135, danielrober.

So I'm saying exactly what I'm saying in 134. You may assert what you wish. I have never heard Salmond shouting.

Have you?
114

brownlie,

28/08/2008 21:00:12
136 Jock

Judging by his postings, Daniel hears voices in his head.
115

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 28/08/2008 21:06:42
137, brownlie, I was hoping he would have come back at me so I could have bored him to death with my theory about Salmond's voice.
116

brownlie,

28/08/2008 21:10:46
138 Jock

As he's a Hearts supporter he's got nothing to shout about! I'm off in case there's any Jambos about!
117

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 28/08/2008 21:21:12
What the heck. Here is my theory about Salmond's voice. Life is too short to wait about for the danielrober's of this world.

Alec Salmond is barrel chested. He is built like a tenor.

His voice projects like a tenor's. He is a public speaker and this natural attribute enhances his ability to address large audiences.

Politics has entered the showbiz arena and the only politician in Scotland capable of being on the "biggest wee stage in the world" is Alec Salmond.

Detractors will call this shouting because they disagree with the politics he projects.

I disagree with the showmanship in modern politics but that is the way it is.

Gray is not even a warm-up act to Salmond.

118

Ian Hendry,

Boston USA 28/08/2008 21:29:31
Believe it or not this is the best that the labour party has to offer......
119

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 28/08/2008 23:30:46
You see, this is what we love about N.B.(North-British) Labour.

Whingeing, negative, pessimistic, unimaginative and boring.

Gone are the days when they were in touch with the feelings of the nation. Or when they had leaders with at least some vision. Gone are the days when they stood up for Scotland. Even McConnell was brave enough to stand up to Westminster for a few seconds.

These three are paupers by comparison. God knows, they been courting the media successfully for however long now, in this never-ending leadership contest, but are still bereft of articulation on any big ideas. They gravitate toward personal attacks on Salmond as though he is competing in the same contest.

They would do well to learn that the people of Scotland have turned a new leaf, many of them ex-labour voters. They are fed up with out-of-touch Westminster policies, with stealth taxation, with Labour negative campaigning, with expense-corruption, with being told by GB & AD not to claim high wage increases while the 'City' pays out a record-breaking £13 billion in bonuses, etc, etc...

Yes Gray, what have you to say? You are in Brown's pocket.
120

Greatscot....,

London 29/08/2008 14:49:30
I am completely baffled by the attitude of most of the posters on here. Many are of the belief that Labour are somehow an English and therefore Unionist creation. Please. From the rest of the world's perspective, Labour are almost a 100% Scottish invention. Its the Scots who invented Labour and have foisted them on the rest of the UK for the better part of the last 60 years. And the SNP? Just another Labour party but this time with a kilt.

These must be the most juvenile posts of any newspaper in any country on Earth. Please. Do Scotland a favour and stop talking utter tosh. The vast majority of Scots want to stay in the Union. Respect their wishes.
121

Greatscot....,

London 29/08/2008 15:03:14
Please. I'm tired of hearing from various political entities about how it's important to 'stand up for Scotland'.

I was born in Scotland. I was educated in Scotland. And like a hell of a lot of other educated and intelligent Scots I decided that Scotland is going down the sh*tter and that me and my family would be better off down here in Australia.

Now I am even more convinced that I made the right decision for my family. Alex Salmond? Father of a Nation? Please! I don't see many Australians contemplating a life in the modern Republic of Scotland. Or New Zealanders. Or South Africans. Or Canadians.

Braveheart? A movie starring an Australian playing a Scottish hero. The Future? Nothing's changed, has it?
122

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 29/08/2008 21:30:31
146 DOI

Incapable of debate as usual.
123

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 29/08/2008 21:44:04
146&147 Greatscot (that's a laugh)

Your commentary is precisely why things have to change in Scotland. You ran away from this country for a better life? I'm sure that would have taken place under Labour's watch, no?

Forget the Braveheart stuff. Romantic nonsense. I have a few English friends and colleagues who genuinely believe that independence in Scotland would mean better governance and a better deal for them and their families. Much of this, you see, is not about 'nationalism'. It's about dealing with the issues that affect us in Scotland more directly instead of the diluted, red-taped route via Westminster.

And yes, you're right. Labour started in Scotland, but Labour have lost touch with their roots and the people they were supposed to serve. 'Scottish" Labour would do well to detach themselves from the Westminster spin and think of Scotland first.
124

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 29/08/2008 21:50:22
Greatscot

One more thing.

Have a little more respect for people who have actually chosen to spend their lives in Scotland and make it a better place to live. It's easy to criticize from afar. Not so easy when you're in the midst of it.

 

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