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Published Date: 01 December 2008
EDINBURGH property experts are urging the Government to carry out an early review of the controversial new home report system, amid fears of its impact on the already struggling housing market.
Ron Smith, chief executive of the Edinburgh Solicitors Property Centre, issued his warning on the first day of compulsory "single seller surveys".

From today, anyone putting their home on the market must pay for a "home report" – including a condi
tion report and valuation – which is made available to all prospective buyers.

Critics have claimed the reports, which could cost between £500 and £700 for an average property, are an unnecessary extra expense which will put sellers off, leading to fewer houses coming on the market. It is also still unclear how much it will cost to update a report if a property is on the market for a long time, or when this would have to be done.

The ESPC, in common with many solicitors and estate agents, opposed the new system when it was first proposed, but says it is all geared up to implement it.

However, Mr Smith says the question of whether the change will have a negative effect on the housing market was "too close to call". He said: "December is normally extremely quiet and we are in a big slowdown in the housing market, so the market is pretty depressed anyway."

But he continued: "The Government would be very foolish if they didn't review it continually and react to what the market will tell them.

"It needs to be kept under constant review and the views of professionals in the system and the public who will have to use them have to be taken into account."

Single seller surveys were originally proposed as a way of ending the situation whereby several would-be buyers paid for separate surveys of the same property when only one could end up buying the house.

However, solicitors say so many offers are now made "subject to survey" that househunters are no longer running up big bills paying for multiple surveys.

But Graeme Hartley, the Edinburgh-based director of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, said the new home reports would be welcomed by both sellers and buyers.

"I think sellers will be happy to get a valuable marketing tool. And buyers are going to get a condition report and valuation up front for nothing."

He said buyers should have no fears about trusting a report paid for by the seller because surveyors had a legal obligation to be as accurate as possible.

Brian Monks, who is trying to sell his three-bedroomed New Town flat, has already had surveyors round to produce a home report. He said: "Being on the market and with the new legislation coming in today, I felt I would be behind the curve if I didn't have this."

And he hopes the fact he can offer a free valuation and other information on the third-floor property in East London Street – which has a £299,995 fixed price – will help attract more interest.

"It has been on the market five weeks, I've not had any offers and interest has been slow.

"Having a home report can't be a bad thing."

THE REPORT'S THREE ELEMENTS
A single survey prepared by a chartered surveyor containing detailed information on property condition, accessibility information and a valuation.

• An energy report giving a home's energy efficiency rating and its environmental impact in terms of carbon dioxide emissions. It also recommends ways to improve the building's energy efficiency.

• A questionnaire to give prospective buyers useful information about the property, such as parking arrangements, factoring and property alterations.







The full article contains 619 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 01 December 2008 11:41 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Mortgage and property news
 
1

Brian Ferrari,

01/12/2008 12:13:19
No doubt it will have a positive effect on the market in the short term.

Fewer sellers will put their homes on the market so countering the present imbalance between the numbers of home for sale (a lot) and the numbers of buyers out there (not many).

Surveyors will be pleased though as now they will be getting some income - up until now they were dying a death as hardly anyone was buying. Now they are guaranteed an enhanced fee for any property that is placed on the market.
2

allknowing,

01/12/2008 12:13:52
Idiots.

This will only cost people more money in the long term.

You have to laugh at the people who bought multiple surveys though!!!!! Subject to survey ring a bell!!!I've done this on multiple properties, and also agreed a price with the seller before approaching by solicitor.

All this namby pandy nanny state rubbish to help protect the few egits who paid for loads of surveys!! while the rest of us now need to pay 500-750 quid.

3

alex patersons English teacher,

01/12/2008 12:24:54
2.
you full, thats enough to push me over the ege.

Namby pandys coming to play
La la la la la la
Namby pandys here today
La la la la la

lubi lou.
4

Hugh Roscombe,

01/12/2008 12:25:06
If lawyers and solicitors are against it, and estate agents are against it, I'm for it.
5

Skip McClendon,

01/12/2008 12:26:45
The only impact of Home Reports will be to completely halt an already slowing housing market.

Buyers, and it seems also many lenders, will not trust the valuation in a report commissioned by the seller. So buyers will end up having to pay for valuations anyway, for borrowing purposes.

So costs more to sell a house, and will cost just as much as ever to buy a house. Genius move to introduce this at this time...but only if the aim is to completely destroy an already fragile market.
6

Brian Ferrari,

01/12/2008 12:29:17
#4

If that's the way you make decisions in life I'd have to guess that you are not very bright.
7

ccc,

01/12/2008 12:32:49
Brian Monks………..

He thinks that doing this survey may help attract interest to his 3 bed flat ? He has had it on the market for 5 weeks and no interest ? A £500 survey is going to help this ?

Some people are rather slow to wake up to reality. There is only one obstacle to selling your flat Mr Monks……………THE PRICE !!!

Jeez so many people are going to get such a rude awakening when they finally snap out of the denial.

If Mr Monks dropped his price to £200k or less I GUARANTEE it would sell within a week.

His greed will be his downfall. Same goes for most others in this market. The very worst thing you can do is chase the market down.

As for the SSS ? Not going to make a huge difference. The problem in this city is that houses are overpriced by tens, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds. A few hundred for a survey will mean sweet nothing.
8

Labradoodle,

01/12/2008 12:44:13
#4 the valuation is done by a qualified property surveyor. The valuation on the report is therefore no different to that done under the previous system, other than the fact the seller now pays. There should be no reason not to trust the valuation. People are obviously entitled to carry out another survey if they wish but that is up to the individual.
9

Brian Ferrari,

01/12/2008 12:44:57
Yes Brian Monks, you would be behind the curve, going forward. Seeing the bigger picture and thinking laterally is where we are in the present market. Always helps to give buyers a heads up. All part of being on top of your game.
10

SNAFU,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 13:10:01
Estate agents are having a hissy fit because they can now only charge once for a survey, instead of being able to charge another £250 for a photocopy. As long as the surveyor or estate agent doing the Seller's Survey is honest (and who could doubt that?), then what is the problem.?
#9, couldn't agree more, from an out of the box perspective.
11

,

01/12/2008 13:20:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Bien E. Bien,

01/12/2008 13:27:18
I wouldn't pay £300,000 for a flat on East London Street, home buyers report included or not.

I suspect that the seller overpaid for this a couple of years ago and is now trying to find a bigger mug to carry the can.

13

reader,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 13:30:08
The criticism of these surveys is so stupid. If having to do the survey prevents a potential seller from putting up his house for sale he probably wasn't prepared to sell it anyway but just wanted to test the markets. Conversely one could argue that _not_ having a single survey could damage the housing market because sellers don't want to invest a few hundred pounds into a survey for a house they are far from certain to be able to buy.
14

La5t_minit,

01/12/2008 13:32:28
The only reason estate agents and solicitors dont like it is because they now only get one chance to charge for surveys and valuations instead of one for each interest buyer.

One survey, one valuation, one proce. The seller can add the cost to the sale price so the eventual buyer foots the bill.

Simple, fair and if it upsets estate agents and solicitors... Good, they charged too much anyway
15

ccc,

01/12/2008 13:36:54
#12

New Build. Contemporary.....

http://www.espc.co.uk/Buying/270895.html

Was registered on 17 Nov 2006 for £280,000.

All information publicly available through Registrars of Scotland (ROS) data.

16

Bill MacD,

01/12/2008 13:47:33
The only reason the property trade is up in arms against this is that they are at risk of losing their incredibly lucrative scam whereby they cream off a huge slice of multiple survey fees, often charging lots of potential buyers for exactly the same report that's only been done once. In my book that's fraud, and it should be prosecuted, not tolerated. These packs should be compulsory, with the lenders legally obliged to accept them, making it an offence to require anything else. End of story.
17

New Town Resident,

01/12/2008 13:52:34
#15. ccc

Good spot.

By the way, do you know what is the legal situation when property is described as being in the "New Town" when it isn't? This flat appears to be in Broughton (far end of).
18

ccc,

01/12/2008 13:57:51
#17

No idea I am afraid !! I imagine there are legal definitions of areas. However you see numerous properties 'misplaced' all the time when it comes to estate agents. Pretty common occurance. Possibly false advertising ? I doubt anything would be done about it unless you made an official complaint.

In my opinion it just makes the seller look a little foolish and desperate.
19

Brian Ferrari,

01/12/2008 13:58:46
#16

In by book that was history, some time ago.

Multiple surveys ahve been a thing of the past for about 5 years+
20

ccc,

01/12/2008 14:05:06
#19

Is the norm these days 'subject to survey' ?

If it is then I can see why the talk about people getting survey after survey is perhaps misplaced.

However getting a single survey that lenders, buyers and sellers can all agree on is clearly a good idea. I imagine the reality of getting this all to work is the issue here ?
21

edinburgh1,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 14:11:35
Just had a look at the particulars for the flat Mr Monks is trying to sell. You have to wonder who actually writes these things with phrases such as "a good sized third bedroom" which actually measures just over 7ft by 7ft - good sized by what measure - a cupboard?

But back to the main article - I bought a few years ago and the norm then was to offer subject to survey. I certainly wouldn't trust a seller survey as you don't know what conversations they've had with the surveyor etc. It's almost like buying an antique based on what the owner says it is then getting it checked by someone else who reveals it is a fake.
22

Labradoodle,

01/12/2008 14:27:42
#21
"I certainly wouldn't trust a seller survey as you don't know what conversations they've had with the surveyor etc"

Rubbish

Yes because your average surveyor will just throw away their professional membership and career to do a deal with a seller... get real. These are professional, qualified people with a job to do - the same job as before, just a different person paying the fee. They are held accountable for their valuations.

Stupid, ill thought out comments like yours and the general scare mongering in the press do not help. Especially when the housing market and motgage lending is so fragile.
23

Brian Ferrari,

01/12/2008 14:39:04
#22 - Not rubbish.

Surveying is an art rather than a science. A fair valuation is a matter of interpretation. If I was selling I'd want my lawyer to arrange a surveyor to give a valuation at the upper end of the ballpark. And If I was buying I'd assume the valuation the seller had was also at the top end of the scale. You could have a 10% +/- disparity between figures, as always has been the case.

24

badger464,

01/12/2008 14:59:40
#21 imagine what it would be priced at if it had a separate kitchen
25

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 15:16:06
#5 Skip,

"Buyers, and it seems also many lenders, will not trust the valuation in a report commissioned by the seller. So buyers will end up having to pay for valuations anyway, for borrowing purposes."

Absolutely spot on.

I originally thought this to be a good move, but now feel it is just another load of dross brought in by an ideas starved government.

It not only means that buyers will very probably be landed with the need to have and pay for an 'independent' survey (to satisfy their lender), but also, sellers will just add the £700 fee on to their selling price (the buyer will end up paying).

A simpler solution might have been to split the cost of the fee between buyer and seller at the point of sale.

This sytem is bound to fail and will find little support with the house buying/selling public.





26

Alan B,

01/12/2008 15:20:43
The obvious problem with subject to survey with a blind bid what happens when any survey come back with some issues.

What were you bidding on. It being perfect? Or needing some sort of work?

Having the survey up front allows the bidder to have a clearer idea of the issues with the property.

Subject to survey is open season to try to renegoatiate the offer. Does the seller have to go back through the process when the offerer knocks thousands off the bid citing the survey knowing he is in a strong position as the seller is problably not wanting to have another couple of months readvertising.

Off course you could go to the next highest off in the blind bid but with the obvious issues. Have they move on and are still wanting the house as they will have been rejected. Will they want the house knowing the last offerer was trying to renegotiate based on survey?
27

Alan B,

01/12/2008 15:23:46
#Peter

Putting aside the valuation issues. A proper survey with none of the get out clauses that make level 2 surveys useless would be best. Having that upfront with clear come back for the surveyor for not spotting issues with the property would ok.


28

jackhobbs,

glasgow 01/12/2008 15:42:58
If the lender does not trust it !!! forget it no loan !!! now clear off !!!
29

,

01/12/2008 15:52:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
30

11+failed,

the pans 01/12/2008 17:31:13
Is the surveyor liable to the purchaser(who did not pay for the survey) for any claims arising from inaccuracies in the survey?
31

go boil ur heid,

01/12/2008 18:33:57
as i'll never have money to buy a caravan never mind a house i'm only guessing here but as i see it if someone has say 100,000 to buy a house and there's five house in their bracket if they have to buy five surveys that will cost them 3500 so they will only go for maybe one or two but if the seller pays for a survey then they will look at all five good for the seller who gets more viewers good for the buyer they get to see more properties if this is naive then tell me how.
32

Morry,

01/12/2008 18:37:20
Where is my comment?
33

Dogandgoldfish,

01/12/2008 19:06:04
Well I must say that in my life I have heard of some crazy tin-pot schemes but this takes the biscuit, it is the daftest idea I have ever heard and I think all those in favour are either surveyers or daft or both.
This stupid idea will do nothing to stop the blind bids, the report will not be worth the paper it is written on, it will be worded so as blame cannot be attributed to the author, in short the only people to gain will be the surveyors who have just been given a licence to print money, Do you really think the seller will foot the bill, wakey wakey it will go on the cost of the house and it absolutely beggars belief that the country is on its knees and this is the best our illustrious leaders can come up with god help us

Number 29 no you would not buy a car not knowing its condition you would get the AA to inspect it for you
34

Dogandgoldfish,

01/12/2008 19:14:34
No 8 ladradoodle Have you ever had a survey done by one of these qualified property surveyors, NO, I thought not, I have, and for choice wouldn't let one within a mile let alone pay them an extortionate fee for the privilage
35

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 19:24:51
Somewhat selective reporting and obviously lacking in any substantial research from Mr Swanson and as such, well up to his usual standard of juvenile scribbling.

The Chief Executive of Clyde Property, one of the country’s largest estate agents, has been widely quoted today as welcoming this proposal as being well thought out and a significant progression from the previous much discredited system of potential buyer expense for an aborted sale.

He made the further significant point that most sellers are also at the same time buyers. Therefore, they also stand to benefit from this improvement.

It is also worth noting that although this measure has been introduced by the current SNP Scottish Government, it was initially mooted by the previous Lib/Lab coalition Executive.
36

,

01/12/2008 20:20:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

googler,

01/12/2008 21:03:38
#16 - WHAT huge slice of 'multiple survey fees'? Everyone's offering 'subject to survey' at the moment.... aren't they?

However, let's do the math on this one; Warners are at the top of the ESPC tree, according to their claims; recent article in The Hootsmon said they're selling around 11 properties a week just now.

I know it's unrealistic for them to get a cut on the buyers' surveys when people are buying from them, but let's assume here they get a cut from 2 surveys on each of these sales; and assume that a survey costs £250; and that their cut is 10%; £25 each time.

11 sales per week, 44 sales per month; 2 surveys each sale @ £25 ; 44*2*25 = £2200 income per month.

According to their website, they have 90 staff spread over 5 offices. Divvy that £2200 out amongst 90 staff, and I make that £24 per person per month...

Feel free to correct my O-grade arithmetic on this if I'm missing something really obvious, but are you really suggesting that £24 on someone's monthly salary, pre-tax, pre-expenses, is 'incredibly lucrative'......???

Realistically, they'll only get a cut on surveys that they instruct on behalf of buyers - but there's no publicly-available statistics in that vein, and the above will only be accurate if they act for the same number of buyers as they achieve sales; which maybe isn't too unrealistic, as everyone they sell for will likely be buying too.....
38

Rv2!,

01/12/2008 21:16:41
A great idea that the trade have to catch up to.
Why should any buyer have to obtain a survey to learn about a property?

The seller is the person who should serve a document (the survey) that warrants the condition of the property and also include local rules and regulations related to the property.

When I bought a property the solicitor requested I paid for a survey. They organised the survey by opening a filing cabinet, taking out a pile of paper, photocopying it, and handing me it. They charged £90 for that if I remember correctly. Now why should they be allowed to do this 30 times for everyone interested in the property? It is wrong to expect everybody to pay for the same survey and get the same paperwork.
Do it once, and give everyone a copy either free, or for £5 to cover time and effort.
39

Dogandgoldfish,

01/12/2008 21:19:26
No 36 The point is if you choose to have the car inspected by the AA you would have to pay , not the seller, and so it should be with a house, I see no reason to put even more money into the pockets of surveyors for a piese of paper which you may choose to ignore anyway, if its the house you want you will buy it anyway regardless of what a surveyor has written or rather printed from a pre-written survey
40

yoric,

01/12/2008 22:45:58
We've had a similar scheme in England for months now, we call them HIP packs, they cost hundreds of pounds are valid for three months and are as popular as Gordon Brown.

Like Gordon Brown they are a total waste of money.
41

Dogandgoldfish,

01/12/2008 22:47:03
There is something fundamentally wrong with the way in which we buy and sell houses in Scotland, this stupid idea does not address those faults, it merely shifts the cost, and adds another layer so instead of buying a copy of a survey from an estate agent/solicitor you will buy it from the seller, only it will be more expensive. believe me the only people who will gain from this are the already overpaid surveyors
It is the idea of blind bids that needs to be changed

Hypothetically if you had a dishonest estate agent who wanted a house for his own ends your bid could be filed in the bin, and so it still could be

It strikes me that this is either another of those ill thought out ideas or it has been pushed though by those who expect to gain the most from it, and I simply can't believe that anyone in their right mind would think it is a good idea
42

Highland Mist,

01/12/2008 23:04:18
Just wait and see. EVERYONE with a knowledge of the property market begged them not to do it. For one simple reason - it will add expense to the cost of selling a house and it will mean NOTHING. It's a vote catching exercise by the government and noone wants or needs it. Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic and it will hurt ordinary people where they least need it right now - in their pockets.
43

Julian.,

edinburgh 02/12/2008 00:31:25
CCC,

Glad to see you referring to the ROS. Did you miss their report last month which showed house prices in Edinburgh 0.2% up in the third quarter 2008 compared to 2007. Just in case, here's the article:-

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/Register.aspx?ReturnURL=http%3A%2F%2Fedinburghnews.scotsman.com%2Ftopstories%2FCity-house-prices-still-rising.4684671.jp

Seems to be a bit at odds with the world you live in where 180k flats are going to drop to 100k and new town flats valued at 299k are really only worth under 200k.
44

ccc,

02/12/2008 10:22:18
Julian.

The RoS figures are between 6-9 months delayed. They are simply showing what the ESPC showed 6 months ago. An unexpected small rise in prices partnered with a HUGE fall in sales. The RoS figures will show the YoY 12% Edinburgh falls in the next 6 months. It is not rocket science. :)

Also I have recently found out the RoS figures do not even include repossesions. So they are likely to be skewed on the upside a little too.

Edinburgh house prices have fallen 17% from peak so far according to ESPC. This will show up in the RoS figures in about 6 months.

You can either wait for them to confirm this - or face up to reality. I know the sensible option. :)

As for your example of the 299k new town flat......why dont you ask Mr Monks how his sale is going...
45

Labradoodle,

02/12/2008 10:55:22
#34 Who does your surveys, papa smurf?? Surveys HAVE to be done by a qualified surveyor. Contary to what you assume I have lad lots fo surveys done - ALL by qualified property surveyors registered with RICS. An estate agent can give you a guide price but a bank won't lend unless a survey is carried out by a qualified surveyor and an accountable propertyu value quoted. I would have though even the dimmest of folk would know that. Idiot.
46

toots,

Edinburgh 02/12/2008 13:37:48
well - i'm first to welcome this, then at least you get to see what the property is like when you're viewing from a professional point of view too, which will help you make your decision.
With regards to some of you guys thoughts on resurvey, well in the economy climate, I think sometimes it will need to be re-surveyed by the lenders - esp if the property been on the market for a while, the prices are changing alot just now so any lenders should be doing that to protect themselves for further money problems!
47

toots,

Edinburgh 02/12/2008 13:45:26
I'm with CCC on this one - I've been looking on and off the housing market for the last year - various reasons etc.... and I'm seeing alot of houses in my price bracket - so I don't think the house prices are rising - (well maybe in the really expensive houses - ie ones over 500k cos those who can afford that can still pay more than that for house..... sorry to burst any sellers bubbles if they think the market is rising - it isnt....
48

Julian.,

edinburgh 02/12/2008 23:13:03
CCC,

Ok, if we're talking ESPC, where do you get your 17% drop from it's peak? If you're picking out single months that's totally unrepresentative as shown when we had a year on year rise of 8% in August.

Taking quarterly figures, the ESPC shows a fall of 11% in the third quarter compared to the same quarter last year. That's quite different from your 17% claim.

As for the New Town house, the two of you are living in dreamland. Both the guy who's selling it who thinks who thinks a seller's report will make any difference. And yourself who thinks it's worth less than 200k.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
49

googler,

11/12/2008 18:51:18
#48 - since you seem to work within the ESPC, and you want to talk statistics, then;

According to Registers, there were 2664 homes sold in Edinburgh in the first quarter of 2008. According to the published reports, the ESPC sold 1606 in the same period. From these figures, what would you say the ESPC's market share, expressed as a percentage, would be?

 

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