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Equality supremo Harman admits new law will lead to discrimination against men



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Published Date: 27 June 2008
PLANS to give businesses the power to discriminate in favour of women and ethnic minorities have provoked a furore among both businesses and equality campaigners.
Harriet Harman, the Equalities Secretary, yesterday unveiled proposals to tackle the gender pay gap and outlaw discrimination against consumers on the grounds of age.

The forthcoming Equality Bill would allow organisations to hire a woman or worke
r from an ethnic minority over a white male of equal ability.

The legislation, to be published as part of the Queen's Speech, would also force public-sector organisations to publish the gap in what they pay men and women.

Companies bidding for work funded by taxpayers' money – roughly 30 per cent of the private sector – will also be expected to demonstrate they are committed to equality.

Ministers hope this will encourage private-sector firms to follow suit by being more transparent about pay. Gagging clauses in employee contracts will be outlawed, allowing staff to compare pay packets.

Ms Harman agreed the Bill could discriminate against men, but added: "You don't get progress if there isn't a bit of a push forward."

She said it would take 80 years to close the gender pay gap, and highlighted statistics showing that for every pound a man earns, a woman still earns just 87p. In sectors such as the financial services industry, the gap is more than 40 per cent.

Although the new proposals stop short of compulsory pay audits previously suggested by the government, business leaders attacked them as "heavy-handed".

The British Chambers of Commerce warned the plans would be a "bureaucratic nightmare" for smaller firms.

David Frost, director-general of the chambers said: "Increasing the complexity of the tendering process for public contracts and putting more emphasis on positive action in the workplace are unlikely to make life simpler for anyone – least of all business."

Business representatives have argued the gender pay gap is not down to sexism but "cultural" differences.

Peter Schofield, of the Engineering Employers Federation, said: "The vast majority of companies do not set out to discriminate on pay. As the government's statistics illustrate, key drivers of gender pay differences are different educational experiences and choices after childcare."

But Dr Katherine Rake of the Fawcett Society, which campaigns for equality, said the proposals did not go far enough.

The Liberal Democrats also warned of a growing discrepancy between public- and private-sector rules on pay.

Lynne Featherstone, the Lib Dems' equality spokeswoman, said: "Without compulsory pay audits for the private sector, these proposals will represent a very real victory for the hawks in the Cabinet. Public-sector equality rights are fast becoming an ivory tower private-sector employees can only dream of.

"A few questionnaires for government suppliers on their equality policy are going to do little to change the day-to-day opportunities for the 20 million people in the private sector."

Meanwhile, the government yesterday published gender pay gaps for Whitehall departments.

The biggest offender was the Treasury, with a pay gap level of 26 per cent, followed by the Department for Transport at 21 per cent. In the government's Equalities Office, women are, on average, paid 4 per cent more than men.

The Equalities Bill would also ensure older people are not denied access to health or travel insurance, or forced to pay exorbitant rates, without justification other than their age.

It would stop NHS doctors denying older people treatment on the basis of age – a move which is expected to cost the state billions of pounds a year.

Ms Harman said discrimination made no sense when the number of people aged over 85 was set to double in the next 20 years.

However, anti-age discrimination campaigners pointed out that the Bill did not outlaw a default retirement age.

Laws pave way to greater access to wage details

I am a private-sector employer. What will this legislation mean for me?

At the moment, very little. These are proposals that have yet to make it on to the statute books. But this will give you the right to discriminate in favour of women or ethnic minority candidates ahead of white men of equal abilities when recruiting for jobs.

If you are hoping to do business with the public sector, you could be asked to produce your equality policies before being awarded a contract.

Why would I want to discriminate against a man in favour of a woman?

Harriet Harman, the Equalities Secretary, claims the proposals are designed to assist in the situation where firms have male and female candidates of equal abilities but want to promote women to achieve a better gender balance within their company.

The new rules would remove any threat of recriminations that they were discriminating against the male candidate if the woman got the job.

But isn't this kind of "positive discrimination" wrong?

The government believes it is necessary to tackle the "serious inequalities" that exist within the workplace. Firms will not be required to implement positive discrimination.

As a female employee in the private sector, will this mean I will be paid the same as male colleagues doing the same job?

Not necessarily. The legislation would try to establish "norms" where firms publish their pay structure and gender pay gap. It will not be compulsory to do so pre-emptively, although an employment tribunal may order it to. The bill also means you can compare wages with male colleagues and challenge bosses who unlawfully pay you less.

As a boss, should I be worried?

Only if you are discriminating against staff on the basis of gender.





The full article contains 942 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 26 June 2008 10:00 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Women and work
 
1

Big Jock McDoc,

Scotland 27/06/2008 00:45:00
Quote:

Ms Harman agreed the Bill could discriminate against men, but added: "You don't get progress if there isn't a bit of a push forward."

How can this be an equality bill?
2

walter,

27/06/2008 01:03:42
White, Heterosexual, Indigenous, Male, Fathers are already at the bottom of the rights pile and if that is not bad enough the government are enacting laws to discriminate against them.
3

MisterN,

Scotland 27/06/2008 01:34:38
Can this party of imbeciles not do anything right?
4

MisterN,

Scotland 27/06/2008 01:35:33
1

That sounds like the old chestnut if its not hurting its not working.
5

,

27/06/2008 04:31:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

bring them on,

27/06/2008 05:31:50
Women are exceptionally good at making the tea and filing.

Given their unquestionable strength/skill in these areas, I am happy to for them to fill all such positions unchallenged by men (who can work on the more complex jobs).

No complaints from me.
7

Royster,

27/06/2008 05:37:54
Throughout my whole 20 years of working life I have never seen any evidence of men being paid more than women simply because they are men. That's in both the public and private sector. Perhaps for biological reasons women stop work at a certain age then when they rejoin the workforce they have to come in at a lower level - but that's a different argument. Also, how does this argument go down with young, 'indigenous' men? Sounds like a recipe for resentment and, in a worse case scenario, fascism in about 30 years time.
8

Mork the Orkan,

27/06/2008 05:48:06
Part-time women get paid less than full time men.

The words women and men are irrelevant.

Full-time workers get paid more because they have experience. More experience has a value.

Work part-time for a decade at 50% of hours and you have a whopping 5 years less job experience.

Work experience is a factor when considering promotions. Britain is barmy like a motherf**ker.

It is sickening that the loony-left is in charge. This is not sexism, it is rational to pay extra for more experience.
9

Ubi,

Edinburgh 27/06/2008 06:19:14
The lunatics are running the asylum.
10

bring them on,

27/06/2008 06:31:17
#8

Men work harder than women, so even if they were to have only the same number of hours experience they would be better value.

Also, they don't run off to have kids, and other stuff like that.
11

Jock's Away,

Africa 27/06/2008 06:55:57
And the morale of this story for all potential Investors; Avoid Britain, put your money in countries where YOU can run YOUR business. To hire on merit, and the needs of YOUR company. Let the Badly educated, self proclaimed part timers, and walking sick chits can live off the Labour Party (so long as that is alive).
What ever the intension it WILL be abused and manipulated, in the something for nothing no penalty culture.
Equality only exists on a level playing field. Harman has absolutely no concept how vast the definition of equality is in the multicultural chaos created by NU Labor. Crowned by the duplicitous interpretation of criminality. What would get a person into Peterhead or Barlinnie would get a politician TICKING OFF. Hypocrite Harman would be better setting her own house in order.
12

Guga II,

Rockall 27/06/2008 07:00:28
Discriminatory legislation such as this will surely be in breach of EU regulations; and given that Maggie Broon is so gung-ho on the EU as to try and force us into further integration with them, regardless of what the people want, the whole thing looks decidedly odd.

I fully agree with Ubi #9, the lunatics are running the asylum.
13

yockel,

27/06/2008 07:29:24
Ah but once again as with most things NuBlab reality doesn't count, they are sending a message. It is the message that matters not the injustice and the suffering. A bit like Kenny MacAss forcing us to see the error of our ways.
To miss quote Gordo's role model
If one man is descriminated against that is a tradgedy. A million, merely a statistic.
14

Boy Wonder,

27/06/2008 07:31:25
#9. Ubi & #12 Guga ... one gets the impression the lunatics OWN the asylum!!!
15

Samcafe,

Glasgow 27/06/2008 07:38:45
Business has been well known for years to seek to increase its costs by deliberately employing the most expensive in society based on gender. Utter tosh and nonsense harriet, another nail in labour's coffin. I also seem to remember the most recent publication from the Office of Nattional Statistics actually showed young women in full time employment actually earned 1.4% than young men in comparible employment
16

bring them on,

27/06/2008 07:40:18
Almost forgot. Washing and ironing, too.
17

No 42 days,

27/06/2008 07:40:47
Harperson is a feminist monster. Britain is going down the toilet. VOTE UKIP!
18

Selgovae,

27/06/2008 07:41:13
Look on the bright side. It looks like this might make it easier for men to send their wives out to work as rocket scientists or brain surgeons while the man stays at home. Or did I misread something?
19

Selgovae,

27/06/2008 07:45:59
Just noticed the headline. "Equality supremo" has a nice ring. Does this make her the most equal person in the country? Shades of Animal Farm. George Orwell has a lot to answer for.
20

it has always been allan,

27/06/2008 08:37:50
She is a raging control freak who hates men.

She also plans to make the mortgage and bill payer give his house away, to any live in girl friend, who lives there free of any charges.

What size is her house, and does she pay anything towards the bills.
21

Guga II,

Rockall 27/06/2008 08:39:27
#19. Good point, "Equality Supremo" is a bit of an oxymoron; or maybe she's just a moron.


22

Caratacus,

West Britain 27/06/2008 09:03:35
Harriet Harman is an idealogue. Idealogues try to twist reality to fit their skewed world view. When they are in power they are dangerous.
23

JayJay,

Right here 27/06/2008 09:39:46
I look forward to the politicians taking a stand on this issue and starting with the Houses of Parliament where, at the last count, 18% of the House were women and under 2% from Ethnic Minorities.
There is nothing like these idiots. "This is our world view, and we want it to apply everywhere" they chunter. They might start by getting their own House in order!
24

bluehead,

edinburgh 27/06/2008 10:02:26
minister for equalities title should be changed to minister for inequalities
the laws against discrimination are are already so confusing,that no reasonable minded person would ever be able to understand them,and for sure, this will be one of the main reasons that this government will be booted out at the next election
now up comes Harman to make things even worse, with more, even insane ideas.
I read some brave soul says brown is still the best man for the job as prime minister!!
in fact we would be better of with goofy or Popeye
in his place,any thing or anybody would be an inprovement on brown
25

Capital Boy,

27/06/2008 10:05:04
the labour party detest the white brit person, no wonder they are finished !!
26

hertscot,

27/06/2008 10:18:41
Two balls....Bad
Two Ovaries ....GOOD

Orwell thoght it would be the commies, but it's tory women pretending to be socialists.

What a stupid bloody mess.

And for pete's sake don't vote UKIP as advised by #14.
27

GlenB,

27/06/2008 10:27:14
When faced with a decision between two equally qualified candidates employers tend to choose the one that they perceive would most easily fit into their organisation. That has more to do with personality, character and the question "could I work with this person?".
None of this has much to do with gender or ethnicity.
28

Number 6,

Germany 27/06/2008 10:45:31
Brilliant ! God I am truely relieved we are in the Union and governed by this tremendous party. Who on earth thought we Scots could possibly govern ourselves
rather than the political genius of Labour. Where else could we get politically correct soaked policies that now allow full discrimination against everyone. Pure unadultarated genius. I look forward to another 50 years of this brilliant goverment dictating how my country is run. Now , wheres that nurse, ? it's time for my medication.

29

Alastair the First,

27/06/2008 11:08:28
Harperson can stick her bill where the sun don't shine. Stupid PC nonsense. Looking for offence where none exists.
30

GlenB,

27/06/2008 11:48:37
#21 Guga
Oxymoron? Would that be the nongender specific term for silly cow?

(sorry - not necessarily good taste - just couldn't resist)
31

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 27/06/2008 12:04:52
Is this part of Gordon's vision/hallucination? If so now wonder the people of Henley gave him the two-fingered salute. Harperson ought to just go and get a life before this country is over-regulated to death. Mind you it probably is already.
32

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 27/06/2008 12:37:42
This is what happens to people who work in the public sector and have been on too many equality courses.

Are they off they effing heads!!

Best person for the job is by definition the best person for the job. Not the best women, muslim, african, etc, etc.

Total and utter new labour control freakery gone mad.
33

Talkjack,

Coventry 27/06/2008 12:57:13
By giving priorty in employment to some people overs you are not promoting equality, you are discriminating. You have lost the moral highground in favour of personal preference and value judgements.

By inserting the word 'positive' in front of 'discrimination' or 'action' you are not making it a good thing, but you are trying to manipulate people's thinking. In 1930s and 1940's Germany, from the ruling party's position, a great deal of 'positive action' was taken to promote the rights of certain ethnic groups over others.

... talkjack
34

Proximaking,

Aberdeen 27/06/2008 13:14:55
It isn't only in the public sector. This nonsense of taking no personal responsibility for your lifestyle choices and how they affect your job is rife in the oil industry, another cartel of course. I was at a meeting with say ten other colleagues being lectured (yes lectured) by someone from HR about Shell's new requirement to have 50/50 men/women engineers, at that time a few months ago it was 81/19. I asked the blooming obvious question, how could we get to 50/50 when colleges/Universities were turning out a 90/10 ratio at the very most, we already had far more female engineers than the average. If we were forced to go to 50/50 it would mean Shell would have to take less able female engineers but we would still take the male high fliers. How long would it be, here it is now, before we were told we had to give these two groups equal pay? One group, the men, are at the top of their game and their female colleagues were a spread of good and bad. Clearly equal pay for unequal input would be unfair. The HR person was unimpressed, we have to get to 50/50 and that's that. I asked her what the ratio of male/female was in HR as there clearly it should be 50/50 and of course it was 95/5 as it is everywhere else. One of the publishing men spoke up to ask why the CVs for males were being thrown in the bin in his section. She said they weren't but he invited her to come now and speak to his boss, a woman, who was throwing men's CVs in the bin because and I quote "the men are too good at operating the machines and are too helpful, they make the women in the section look bad" end quote. What did this paragon of virtue from HR do? Nothing. Sorry but the only sexism I have ever seen in the work place is from women onto men and any company that goes along with this appalling Harman inspired nonsense will head where it is rapidly taking Shell, straight down the pan. The best people should get the jobs and it should have nothing to do with the shape, size or colour of their genitalia
35

Proximaking,

Aberdeen 27/06/2008 13:15:43
The best people should get the jobs and it should have nothing to do with the shape, size or colour of their genitalia. I would have thought Harman would have known that.
36

Proximaking,

Aberdeen 27/06/2008 13:17:49
HR had 95 women for every 5 men.
37

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 27/06/2008 13:21:10
#34 #35 - Well put.

I am looking forward to this being applied to the front line forces in our military. We may require to force some of the ethnics and women to join but that is the price to pay for positive discrimination.



38

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 27/06/2008 13:24:40
For the record my Boss is a woman and she is very good at her job and professional. She got the job for those reasons not because she is female.
39

JayDeeTee,

27/06/2008 13:29:17
It is time to remove this Harwoman from this post as her agenda only covers equality where there is a perceived bias against women. You simply cannot have a person who holds this post who actively discriminates against one gender. She has to remember that she is supposed to be Equalities Minister. This DOES NOT mean ignoring men. If she was any good she would try to balance up the position in, say, school education where there is an unacceptable ratio of women to men to such an extent that it MUST be having an affect on the education of young lads. She cares not. How about looking at Health Care as well? Maybe this should be balanced up? She cares not. There are other areas as well. She cares not. Her focus is on women. Wrong and unacceptable. There is a good article in The Times today (page 32 - Melanie McDonagh)which describes perfectly why there is a genday pay gap but, more importantly, points out that women are better paid than men in a lot of cases. Harwoman should read this ...but she wont be able to see through her pink blinkers.
40

JayDeeTee,

27/06/2008 13:36:57
#32. And that is why New Liebour finished 5th in yesterday's By-Election. C_rap like this is the reason this party is slipping down the toilet. Cannot understand why they don'r realise but, of course, if they have blinkered people like Harwoman making the decisions they will never notice. The day when this lot are dumped is growing closer and closer. Bring it on and let's get somebody in to fix the mess they will have left behind. I would even vote Tory!!!
41

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

27/06/2008 16:33:36
Labour have utterly and totally lost the plot. I really can't wait for a chance to put them out of our misery.
42

Joe Macdelta.,

27/06/2008 16:50:29
Equality my A";e.
43

Allan(handofgod137),

27/06/2008 17:23:09
Oh stop being so harde on the poor wee woman, if nulabour hadn't already implemented these policys, she'd still be offering blow jobs down the docks to survive.
44

Iain's,

Barcelona 27/06/2008 17:41:38
God help us all

She should thank her lucky satars that Berlisconi won the election.

Can I get a sex change on the NHS?
45

George Laird,

Glasgow 27/06/2008 19:51:12
Dear All

"PLANS to give businesses the power to discriminate in favour of women and ethnic minorities have provoked a furore among both businesses and equality campaigners".

This is further evidence that New Labour operate a policy of discrimination at its heart, this is it core belief.

People want to know one thing, that fairness applies to all and that is the government's bedrock belief.

Under New Labour, we are seeing at the very top it is rotten to the core.

Harman was always a stupid bi.tch let us all not kid on.

It is obvious that polling 3.07% of the vote in Henley has taught them nothing.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
46

SouthernSkye,

27/06/2008 21:01:36
This legislation makes as much sense as bringing in a ram to cover heiffers!
The woman, the party, the government have lost the plot totally.
I heard on radio4 that one will not be allowed to advertise for a minimum of, or a given duration of, experience. So how does all this fit in with the sending in of a CV for a job application? No age, sex, religion, DoB, country of birth, marital status or experience? Just send a blank sheet of A4 to the above address when applying for the job !
47

JayDeeTee,

27/06/2008 21:26:41
#46. Make sure the blank sheet is pink and, hey presto, you will get the job.

And #34. Is is policies like this that will ensure Britain will be last in the league soon. Ignore who is best for the job (unless they don't have a pair of balls), just ensure that women outnumber men (because this is what will happen) for the sheer hell of it. We are witnessing the crumbling of our nation.
48

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 27/06/2008 21:52:16
I have had the misfortune to have worked with four women bosses in my time, and they were without exception foul mouthed, vindictive, spiteful trouble making harridans who could cause a fight in an empty house.

They cannot act in a fair and reasonable manner it just does not compute, for the same reason they cannot read a map. They are not programmed to be that way. Which is why men are on top and women underneath. It has always been that way since Adam.

Some Labour party. Gordon must be so afraid of these pink witches in his cabinet, I feel for him.
49

truthsleuth,

28/06/2008 00:27:28
Equal Pay for Equal Work is eminently fair

Positive Discrimination is just that DISCRIMINATION.

Hariet Harman and her sexist terrorists are on the move

Discrimination
Just look at her CV it is full of selective campaigning to obtain privilige rather than equality.
50

james 1st,

hamilton 28/06/2008 02:41:55
any law which disciminates on the basis of sex, age colour or religion is wrong, labour needs anothen ten or so years on the opposition benches as they appear to have run out of ideas, or at least sensible ideas
51

Erchie Broon,

28/06/2008 08:03:42
Britains are leaving the UK in droves because of the Immigration Policies of Labour and racists like Harman are promoting Parties like the BNP without knowing it. London is commonly referred to nowadays as Londonistan and we spend millions on our Security and Islamics radicals.Women I have no problem with but when she starts discriminating against native British white males in favour of foreigners then I have a real problem.
52

it has always been allan,

28/06/2008 08:43:37
It is really most unfair and unequel, that no posts praise our governmant and in particular our fuhrer.

You really must admit that he has shown his mettle with the plastic bag decision.

Also he has shown real determination in refusing a referendum on the EU

I have posted his picture portrait in the toilet where it works wonders.

The size of my fingers makes typing difficult I will have to employ a lady of some col***r
53

No 42 days,

28/06/2008 09:08:40
People like Miss Harman need positive discrimination to get a job. If she had to get a job on her own merit, then she'd be stuffed. Talentless and pointless feminists should go and work as dinner ladies.

Can't wait for NuLab to be kicked out. No more all women short lists and no filthy wh0re women Lab MPs.
54

it has always been allan,

29/06/2008 18:41:15
"every dog has its day"

But now please note it is "now every bitch takes command every day"
55

it has always been allan,

29/06/2008 18:42:10
apologies to harriet harwoman
56

Eric D,

Scotland 29/06/2008 20:32:27
I have a novel idea for the loony left / multi-culturalist/PC/Diversity brigade, Treat everybody the same !.

 

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