Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Saturday, 11th October 2008

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Commons clash over Scottish banknotes



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 24 January 2008
DES Browne yesterday rejected attempts to get Scottish banknotes designated legal tender in England.
The Liberal Democrats had appealed to the Scottish Secretary to change the law and reclassify Scottish notes, which are currently not officially legal tender anywhere in the United Kingdom.

They are accepted generally as payment but do not hav
e the legal backing that Bank of England ones enjoy.

The term legal tender is only used in contract law and provides protection in limited cases where debtors have paid debts using "legal tender".

In every other way, the legal tender of a banknote does not affect its use. But the Lib Dems say there have been instances when traders in England have refused Scottish notes, claiming they were not "legal tender" and this could not happen if the notes were given the same legal backing as Bank of England ones.

Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) said at Commons question time: "It is high time that Scottish banknotes were legally acceptable throughout the UK."

He told Mr Browne: "If dollars and euros are acceptable to traders, surely Scottish notes should be.

"Will you endeavour to make sure this position is brought to an end?"

The Scottish Secretary replied: "The law is that Scottish banknotes as a method of payment enjoy exactly the same status as all other methods of payment across the United Kingdom.

"That is not widely known but people should know that and accept that.

"I know some of my fellow countrymen have experienced on occasion the refusal of these banknotes. But I have been in London a lot over the last 11 years and because of ministerial responsibilities I have also had Northern Irish banknotes sometimes in my wallet and I have never experienced anyone refusing to accept them."

Alistair Carmichael (Lib Dem, Orkney and Shetland) told MPs that research had shown Scottish banknotes are often not accepted. It was "a source of embarrassment and irritation to many of our constituents".

Mr Browne said: "The fundamental problem here is that the law of contract across the UK allows people not to engage in a transaction at the point of payment if they don't want to.

"This irritation in the 21st century shouldn't be here. The best thing to do is to take every opportunity to tell people that these notes are as good as anybody else's."

WHAT'S LEGAL TENDER?
ALL Scottish banks have the right to print their own notes, but these notes are not officially legal tender in Scotland or England.

English banknotes of denominations less than £5 were legal tender in Scotland under the Currency and Bank Notes Act 1954. But now, with the removal of Bank of England £1 notes, only coins constitute legal tender in Scotland.

English banknotes are legal tender only in England, Wales, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. Credit cards, cheques and debit cards are not legal tender either, but it doesn't stop them being used as payment.

Legal tender has a very narrow technical meaning in relation to the settlement of debt.

In ordinary, everyday transactions, it has very little practical application.

Only a small percentage of Scottish and British trading is carried out using legal tender. Just because something is not legal tender certainly doesn't imply it is illegal to use.



The full article contains 550 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 January 2008 10:51 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Roger Irrelevant,

24/01/2008 00:16:14
The Lib Dems really need to grow up and stop wasting valuable time and (taxpayers') money.

The Scottish Note Issue is a quirky matter that adds to the rich tapestry of life.

Sid Yobbo kids not one jot whether or not it's legal tender. Will it buy a fix? Or a bottle of Buckie?
2

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 24/01/2008 00:42:24
.IT.SHOULD.BE.LEGAL.TENDER.ALL.OVER.THE.UK.ITS/RACIST
3

Alan B,

24/01/2008 00:43:42
#1 What planet are u on. Why do u think it is acceptable for scottish notes not to be accepted? The whole issue just leads to alot of bad feeling. Quite simply sterling should be accepted throughout the uk whether it is bank of england notes or scottish notes. it is simply incredible that u go down to london or somewhere, order something and then have to leave because the take away or something does not accept the bank notes. If a scottish shop was to refuse english notes it would quite rightly be accused of being racist. Why we have to put up with excuses for refusing scottish notes is beyond me.

It is also difficult to understand how Des Browne who is meant to be representing scottish interests is not actually standing up for an issue that causes problems for scots travelling down south. The fact he says he has never had that problem in 11 yrs is simply unbelievable.
4

Jim Baxter RIP,

Sai Kung 24/01/2008 01:00:26
Fully agree with 2 and 3. Anyone who travels to England frequently knows the problems of tendering Scots notes. Many traders can be absolutely unhelpful.
This is not waste of time but a necessity
5

Fanling,

Hong Kong 24/01/2008 01:10:42
This is an ongoing laugh or a crying shame. For years I lived in the north-east and far north-west of England where Scottish notes are accepted without question. As they should be.

Last month I exchanged £300 of them in a hotel in Budapest, Hungary. After a quizzical moment about "no queen's head on notes ... why?", I explained slowly in my hesitant Hungarian ... thereafter no problem. I routinely exchange the same Scots banknotes on the other side of the world in Hong Kong and mainland China. What is southern England's problem? Well, say no more ... that self-same Scots Defence Secretary was on the same flight south as I was a month ago. My Scots notes were exchanged without a hitch in a country newly enlisted into the EU. Our next-door southernmost neighbour, propped up by resident Scots politicians, rejects them. Poor show.

6

Birdie,

Foster City 24/01/2008 01:17:05
I am old enough to remember when English shops would charge 6p to accept a Scottish bank note.
7

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 24/01/2008 01:24:47
Crocodile tears!
8

steve green,

preston 24/01/2008 01:46:38
Always take my holidays in Scotland and return with Scottish paper money, have yet to have any problems.
9

Charles Linskaill,

.Edinburgh 24/01/2008 01:47:07
My back is laden, the pain IS unbearable!

But Hey 'Monkeys'..!!

These..'Gold-Bars'..are..'Legal-Tender' anywhere in the World!

Now give me your..'Bannanas'.!!

I got the Gold!

(Sorry I thought it was the..'Muppet-Show'!) :-D

For...'Gods Sake UK'.. get a 'Grip'!

'Monkey Grip',,on a Tree.!
10

Edward,

24/01/2008 01:57:22
Des Browne and David Cairns were a pair of arrogant smug idiots as they took Scottish Questions
The topics were the demise of Border TV news, Scottish Banknotes and the closure of rural post offices
But they just had to get a dig at the Scottish Government at every opportunity. at some points it became embaressing as the realisation that the pair of them were irrelvant to Scotland!. At one point during the discussion on post office closures, Cairns remarked that (after prompting from a Lib Dem)the SNP governments national conversation had only received a handful of replies in the post and quipped that it reflected that Scots were not interested in the National conversation. Ignoring the fact that the National Conversation is more based online and that it has involved 10's of thousands of people taking part. David Cairns and Des Browne, yesterdays mens living in a twilight world
11

Charles Linskaill,

.Edinburgh 24/01/2008 01:58:33
Exit the Banks 'Zoo'
12

Celtic Lion,

Roar 24/01/2008 02:32:10
I would just love to be a shopkeeper to refuse Des Browne's money.

#3 Alan B I think you're suggestion that it would be considered racist if we were to refuse English money is a good point.
13

The Pict.,

Canada 24/01/2008 03:40:18
It's another kick in a### for Scotland. Another reason for the SNP to get rid of the English yoke.
slainte'
14

Jim A,

24/01/2008 04:14:15
#8 Steve, agreed mate, in all the years I've travelled south I've never had a problem anywhere when paying with Scottish notes.

#6 Birdie, Aye I remember that as well mate 19s/6d to the English pound
15

FrancesP,

24/01/2008 04:15:42
I was in Swansea a couple of years ago, and twice had Scottish notes rejected. I then spent an hour trying to get the notes changed to English ones (poor old Wales don't have their own) and was told that this wasn't possible either - but not to worry, because Scottish notes 'are accepted everywhere'. Ye just cannae win!
16

An Beal Bacht,

24/01/2008 04:22:51
It is a provocation pure and simple. I will no longer accept English banknotes. Is that racist - no - it's justice.
17

Julian.,

edinburgh 24/01/2008 05:23:58
#3 AlanB and all the others who are getting up in arms about this go and read the article.

It states:-
"English banknotes are legal tender only in England, Wales, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man."

So English notes are not legal tender here either. What are you all fussing about. Now you know this you can get a bit satisfaction by refusing to take an English note from an Ebglish person on the basis that it's not legal tender.
18

Stuart505,

Dubai 24/01/2008 05:35:05
Jim (15)

#8 Steve, agreed mate, in all the years I've travelled south I've never had a problem anywhere when paying with Scottish notes.

#6 Birdie, Aye I remember that as well mate 19s/6d to the English pound

Is it me or is there not a contradiction in these two statements?
19

james 1st,

hamilton 24/01/2008 06:16:40
has the scotland office ever takan scotlands part on any issue. i have exchanged scottish notes with my bank in new zealand without problem, but if english notes have the protection of law then so should scottish notes
20

danielrober,

24/01/2008 06:36:40
I spend Scottish notes here all the time. Always have.

Every now and then i go into a small family shop that questions the notes. Its very funning as the younger family member tries explaining to his/her grandparents thats it's all UK money.

Not sure what the politicans are talking about, Tessc's never refused my cash.
21

TerryH,

England 24/01/2008 06:45:41
I think this wouldn't be a problem if there was a single Scottish note. But there isn't, every bank in Scotland produces their own (different)notes...its crazy.

I'm not a shop keeper, but if someone offered me a Cyldesdale bank note (that I'd never seen before), I'd be reluctant to take it. It has nothing to do with racism or scottophobia and everything to do with not wanting to be ripped of.

Get them produced centrally, with a common design and the problem (if it exists) would go away.
22

Watson,

Irvine 24/01/2008 06:58:37
This is Brown's idea of Britain. To him England is an island.
23

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 24/01/2008 06:58:56
The question of legal tender is a red herring here. It's simply unreasonable to expect notes issued by ordinary commercial banks to have the same status as those from a state central bank.

Until Scotland is free of the UK, all the current UK countries should use the same notes, which should be labelled "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".
24

EWB,

UK 24/01/2008 07:03:04
I, too, remember getting 19s 6d for my Scottish pound in England back in the early 1950s; and sixpence in those days was a lot of money to a young child. By today's reckoning, a shilling was worth the equivalent of a pound, so 6d was worth about 50p.

In July 2006, I recall on a visit to Riga in Latvia, where bureaux de change abound on every street corner, how the tellers would both buy and sell Bank of England notes at the equivalent of 1 Lat (the local currency) for £1 (England)give or take a cent either way. They would also accept Scottish pound notes but only valued them at £0.75 and they would not sell them.

How many Latvians or other Europeans, after all, know that Scotland has its own banknotes? How many people know that Northern Ireland has its own banknotes?

Let Scottish pound notes be freely acceptable throughout the UK, but let's not kid ourselves that they are acceptable outwith the UK. They are, after all, backed by the Bank of England.
25

Webbie,

mullingar 24/01/2008 07:08:27
I remember being told that Scottish notes are legal because they are drawn on reserves in the bank of England but boE notes are not so they are worthless and not legal....Anyone else Know about this
26

eddylongshanks,

24/01/2008 07:38:54
Listen to you lot !! Try reading the WHOLE article ! English notes aren't legal tender in Scotland either so get off your high horses and drop the usual accusations of racism and read before trotting out your own usual predetermined prejudices !

"English banknotes are legal tender only in England, Wales, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. Credit cards, cheques and debit cards are not legal tender either, but it doesn't stop them being used as payment."
27

Mirrorman,

The bright side of life 24/01/2008 07:39:41
Scotland wants independence, Scotland can easily stand on its own two feet??, anti-English sentiment is rife, all Scotland's woes have been brought on by the Union, Westminster does Scotland down at every opportunity, we want our own navy, Olympic team, international airline, brand of soap powder etc etc etc....but please, please could you accept our bank notes.

If Scotland really wants independence then it has to accept the consequences. Just treat this as a taster. Come the great day? Scots will have their wish ...foreigners in their own islands.Oh and by the way those nice people over in Europe who are Scotland's new best friends and are so much nicer than the English won't want them either.

Wise up before it's too late.

28

donald,

glasgow 24/01/2008 07:50:41
It was embarrassing watching Labour thickos waffling on TV. Well, they do get paid in London gold.
29

TartanDave,

Kawerau 24/01/2008 07:52:00
#6 Birdie, Aye I remember that as well mate 19s/6d to the English pound.

When I was 17 years old and not long arrived in London (worked in Foreign Office) from Musselburgh, I bought a shirt in a shop near Whitehall. I handed over a Scottish fiver, and the guy behind the counter told me the Scottish pound was worth only 19/6 in England. We exchanged a few words; I asked him to hold on to the shirt for me; and, with fiver in my hand I went out and found one of those big London bobbies.
I soon got my full 20/- per Scottish pound!
30

eddylongshanks,

24/01/2008 07:56:55
Donald - and there was me almost believing that there was so much Scottish money pouring south it was the other way round !
31

eric,

Lothian 24/01/2008 08:17:07
I remember when i worked in tourist shop,And lady from kent threw dummy out pram when i gave her change in Scots notes ,She shouted the place down in front of tourists,She said they dont even have the queens head on them,
I replied No we have far more interesting people to put on them and that she had 300yrs to get used to them !
32

ex katman 2,

edinburgh 24/01/2008 08:19:03
Try changing Scottish bank notes into Euros when abroad at any exchange outlet and you will come home with the Scottish notes.A lot of exchanges are now refusing the old £20 English notes,so beware.
33

Iain's,

24/01/2008 08:48:39
I thought that Scottish notes were made legal way back during Old Labour times.

I read somewhere that when there was a £50 travel allowance, the government made Scottish notes legal. This was to prevent UK nationals taking Scottish notes on holiday abroad to beat the law.

This was in devaluation and 28% inflation times.

Can anyone check this out?

34

paulr,

edinburgh 24/01/2008 08:48:57
"I have also had Northern Irish banknotes sometimes in my wallet and I have never experienced anyone refusing to accept them"

He has been very lucky, i have had scottish notes, NI notes and Euros refused in england, the latest was in wales where they refused to accept scottish notes.
35

paulr,

edinburgh 24/01/2008 08:49:40
We should all refuse to accept english notes and see how they like it.
36

Arrow,

edinburgh 24/01/2008 08:52:35
Royal Oak pub in Windsor has a sign refusing to accept Scottish notes on the basis that there have been forgeries. i enquired whether English notes were never forged and the bartender said it was policy not accept Scottsh notes because the local banks don't like them. clearly Queen Lizzy changes all her money when she comes back from Balmoral.
37

Justy,

Edinburgh 24/01/2008 08:57:54
Des Browne is among the many Westminster Scottish MPs who should be expected to take a pay cut back dated to 1999, the year devovled matters were transferred to Holyrood. He is a part timer after all.
Justy.
38

Worm,

Coldstream 24/01/2008 09:07:20
I wish people would read the article.

"In ordinary, everyday transactions, it has very little practical application"

Legal Tender is almost irrelevant. People in shops may say 'I'm not accepting that, it's not legal tender' - but they probably have no idea what 'Legal Tender' actually means.

That's not to say that this doesn't need sorting out, but it's not about shops refusing to accept Scottish or English notes - that's just ignorance, poor Customer Care and poor training. Scottish banknotes aren't Legal Tender in Scotland, but that's never caused a problem has it?
39

moiaussi,

24/01/2008 09:14:41
#31
If having Scottish notes refused in England is a feature of independence then why is it happening now?
40

moiaussi,

24/01/2008 09:16:38
I like the idea of refusing Bank of England notes as they are not legal tender here. I will try that one out.
41

Robert12,

Edinburgh 24/01/2008 09:19:17
TBH It's partly fair enough for them down in the South as it's rare for them to see Scottish notes. I remember getting an Irish plastic fiver and wondering what it was! And I got a new Bank of Scotland £20 a few weeks ago and was concerned it was dodgy.

The same applied when I received one of the new English notes. Generally all these shops/pubs etc need to have to correct up-to-date information so that they know what notes should look like. However I doubt this will happen without FORCING folks in London to get off their ignorant backsides and check what notes should look like rather than turning them away.
42

Charles Linskaill,

.Edinburgh 24/01/2008 09:22:07
Did we have Scottish 'Ten Shillings, notes? I can only just remember the currency.
43

moiaussi,

24/01/2008 09:27:38
But doesn't this just sum things up? English notes aren't legal tender in Scotland but the English have no problem having them accepted, Scottish notes aren't legal tender in England but we have problems having them accepted, the central bank of the UNITED KINGDOM is the Bank of ENGLAND, and to put the icing on the cake 'Scottish' unionist politicians can't see any problem!
44

Lesley,

EDINBURGH 24/01/2008 09:27:44
In London a Taxi Driver offered me £2 each for four Scottish £1 Notes - explanation - he could pass off as fivers to drunks on a Saturday night :)
45

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 24/01/2008 09:28:16
#4:

I travel around a lot and the only place I had a problem with Scottish notes was in Poland, long before it became an EU member state. They accepted them eventually, once we had explained what they were.

As far as England is concerned, I have had absolutely no problems whatsoever with them accepting Scottish notes... even £1 notes... even right down south.
46

sam the god,

24/01/2008 09:29:18
I was in London a few years ago and went out for lunch after which I tried to pay with Scottish banknotes which were refused by the management as Scottish funny money.
As a matter of principle I put my fingers down my throat and made myself sick saying as I had left the food on the premises I did not have to pay for it and then I walked out, it was a bit extreme but it got my point over as they just stood there.
47

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

24/01/2008 09:29:48
This works both ways - no English notes are legal tender in Scotland either.
48

Barnett Formula Admin,

24/01/2008 09:31:08
Scottish Conservative MEP Struan Stevenson has accused the SNP Government of 'out-and-out hypocrisy' in the wake of Finance Minister John Swinney’s promise to write to Chancellor Alistair Darling demanding that Scottish banknotes be given equal status to English notes in England.

Speaking from Brussels, Struan said:

"The SNP’s demands seem completely ridiculous when you consider their real political agenda, which would take an independent Scotland into the Eurozone where Scottish banknotes would be banned.

"Alex Salmond used to work for a bank so he should know that the European Central Bank (ECB) produced a report way back in 1999 - the Report on the Legal Protection of Banknotes in the European Union Member States - which outlaws the issuance of banknotes by non-NCBs (National Central Banks, such as the three Scottish and four Northern Ireland banks) within the Eurozone.

"The SNP claims that distinctive banknotes issued by the three Scottish banks would be protected in the brave new world of the Euro, but the 1999 report makes it abundantly clear that no such deviation from the norm would be tolerated. The report claims that if the practice is allowed to continue it would provide the Scottish banks with some sort of commercial advantage over other banks through the ability to 'advertise their services through their banknotes'. They also claim that the different designs on Scottish Euro-notes would 'give rise to confusion in the general public' and would lead to 'distortions in monetary income calculations'.

"The SNP demands are no more than out-and-out hypocrisy, a charade aimed once again at opening up divisions between Scotland and England. While the SNP government maintains the pretext of trying to immortalise Scotland's unique banknotes, they are fully aware of the fact that independence would sound their death knell."




"Alex Salmond used to work for a bank so he should know that the European Central Bank (ECB) produced a report way bac
49

Jwil,

24/01/2008 09:31:11
I Saw Browne's reply to the commons question. He was obviously going to give nothing away on this matter just more of the same! His reply was absolute nonsense in saying that he had no problems using Scottish notes in London. (I could put money on it he has a wallet full of Bank of England notes).

Scotland should adopt the Euro on its own and the problem would be solved. Its going to happen
eventually anyway.
50

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

24/01/2008 09:31:52
#49 Outside Europe they are virtually impossible to change - I've had them refused in Cuba, Egypt, the Dominican Republic, Morocco and so on.
51

Mr Grumpy,

West lothian 24/01/2008 09:32:35
We were in the midlands recently and our Asian taxi driver refused to accept a Scottisih £20 note. He then said he'd accept Euros or Polish money. So who's in the EU then?
52

Jwil,

24/01/2008 09:33:22
"This works both ways - no English notes are legal tender in Scotland either"

A silly statement. English Banknotes are not refused in Scotland!
53

malkster,

Scotland 24/01/2008 09:33:51
I have never had them refused in England, hand them over cofidently and glare at taker it works every time. It is a good point though, why do we have to have 3 different versions. lets have on Scottish issuing bank.
54

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

24/01/2008 09:34:24
Just to throw another spanner in the works - I've had Northern Irish notes refused here in Scotland too.
55

AJ Fife,

24/01/2008 09:36:51
I've always liked the fact Scottish notes are despised south of the border - it adds fuel to the independence fire!

Hopefully more racist behaviour can be uncovered and we can speed the process up. I'm sure there must be something written in Westminster about expendable Scots and lethal nuclear waste dumping grounds.
56

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

24/01/2008 09:38:17
#57 I hate getting Clydesdale banknotes - when they redesigned their latest notes I actually had a problem getting a taxi driver to take one in Dundee - because he had not seen it before.
57

morris,

edinburgh 24/01/2008 09:42:37
The answer is simple.Declare Des Brown an illegal tender in Scotland and all his quisling gravy train mates !SERIOUSLY
This is a national insult.

Bank of Scotland was founded by Royal Charter in 1695 if I recall.It has a perfect legitimacy and the current arrangement where Bank of England issues notes which cover the gold reserves of the UNITED KINGDOM (please note)is whats irregular! Bank of Scotland Royal Bank of Scotland and Clydesdale (and there used to be others) issue notes for which they must hold a Bank of England note.THIS HAPPENS BECAUSE WESTMINSTER HAS DECLARED IT SHOULD BE SO. This can serve no useful purpose than allow the Unionists another cheap numpty nonsense of Scotland's bank notes would be worthless if we left mother England.
This is a) nonsense and b) Blackmail!

WE SHOULD NOW REFUSE TO ACCEPT ENGLISH NOTES IN OUR CHANGE and force Des Browne to get a grip of his Scottish credentials (sounds painful, does it not)!

How do we launch a campaign to refuse acceptance of English banknotes? Any suggestions ?
Incidentally the Bank of England was founded by a Scotsman called William Paterson of Dumfries who apparently loaned the King money. This was slightly before the Bank of Scotland was given its Royal Charter (approx 1 year if I recall).
Please note both events took place prior to the 1707 Act of Union so how one can declare the currency of Scotland to be illegal when it was the currency of an independent Scotland is something I have never accepted.


Bank of England was granted the right to issue English Bank notes when formed in 1694 surely !It can only have the right to issue ALL United Kingdom notes if LONDON has declared it so, since the Union took place 13 years later.
This is only acceptable if we accept it!
58

moiaussi,

24/01/2008 09:43:34
#52
An independent Scotland would have a Central Bank which would issue Scottish notes in either sterling, pound Scots or euros - there is no contradiction in the SNP's position.
59

moiaussi,

24/01/2008 09:46:23
#61
"How do we launch a campaign to refuse acceptance of English banknotes? Any suggestions ?"

morris - just refuse to accept English notes as they are not legal tender - shouldn't be a problem according to Des Browne.
60

morris,

edinburgh 24/01/2008 09:49:10
58

You are correct of course .We often confuse Bank of Ireland notes with the "punt" which of course no longer exists as far as I know, since Poblacht na hÉireann,(the Republic), has adopted the Euro as far as I am aware. This refusal also should not happen,and far from throwing a spanner in the works,you make a very valid point indeed !


We cannot escape our own shortcomings here.I accept you are correct.
61

Mr Grumpy,

West Lothian 24/01/2008 09:49:28
Nr 59 - I'm not a nationalist and I don't believe we should be independent, but I would hate to think we arrived at that point, if that's where democracy says we should be, having based our arguments on their apparent racism and general resentment of the English. Any English people that I've met are decent folk who take an interest in why Scotland wants to be seperate and although they wouldn't miss us, they cannot believe the level of resentment / hate we seem to level against them. Sure, life isn't fair, and they mention 1966 at every opportunity, but don't let's give the English an excuse to dump us. We would only find out how much we need each other after we'd been dumped, and for why? Who needs small minded bigots north or south of the border?
62

malkster,

Scotland 24/01/2008 09:49:49
It may be a stupid question but why do we issue scottish bank notes. It must cost the banks money. Lets just stop and let the Bank of England pay for it all.
63

Gothic Rose,

24/01/2008 09:51:13
My Printing Plates work very well:)
64

AJ Fife,

24/01/2008 09:56:11
Mr Grumpy#65,

The Nationalist cause aint about the English public, it's about Westminster and the system of govt. Of course, there's nae herm in taking the p*sh noo and again!
65

gus1940,

Edinburgh 24/01/2008 09:57:50
If The UK is truly a partnership of nations why was The Bank of England not renamed The Bank of The United Kingdom 301 years ago.
66

morris,

edinburgh 24/01/2008 09:58:36
63

Yes obviously but with all due respect, that is only me. I was seeking suggestions on how we could accelerate into something slightly bigger in scale than Moi of course,but yes I suppose its the acorn and oak scenario. I refused to sing God Save the Queen at Murrayfield for a few years and along with a few friends engaged in Flower of Scotland afterwards,It soon became the norm,so much that,much to my surprise,it was abandoned without much argument really.I do know though that Princess Anne does not like the song also,so probably she was influential enough as patron of the SRU to rubber stamp this as it were.If so,well said Princess Anne.
I definitely would find her less objectionable than her brother!
I reiterate Any suggestions (apart from the admittedly obvious one)?
67

An English Voice™,

24/01/2008 10:01:30
So we have the complaints about a Norwegian chess set that was bought fair and square from the rightful owner by the British Museum, immigration reforms making it harder for more Indian curry chefs to come to the UK and now the banknotes, which isn't an issue at all but why let reality get in the way of a good anti-English rant.

It's all heavy stuff from the nationalists, ain't it!
68

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 24/01/2008 10:01:55
Have handed Scots money over all the way down the M6 corridor and in Manchester for a number of years now and have had no problems.
A couple of weeks ago had Scots £20s changed in Stavanger without comment.
69

malkster,

Scotland 24/01/2008 10:02:13
#69

You are right lets get a bank of the United Kingdom to print all our money or alternately join the euro.
70

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 24/01/2008 10:07:15
It's time we Scots got a life?

Travel to Newcastle, Berwick, or Carlisle, and you will find many branches of Scottish banks. The people of Northumbria and Cumbria are well used to interchanging Scots notes.

Travel to London or any of the other major English and Welsh cities and your Scots notes will rarely be refused. Prior to Ireland adopting the Euro, you could travel there, and they accepted Scots notes.

On the occasions when Scots notes are refused its more down to arrogance, ignorance or simply the case that forged Scots notes have been circulating in the area.

It's interesting to note that during the past week one of the few currencies to be unaffected by the turmoil in the world markets has been the Euro!

The sooner the U.K. adopts the Euro the better, and we can all forget these stupid arguments.
71

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

24/01/2008 10:14:05
"Legal tender has a very narrow technical meaning in relation to the settlement of debt.

In ordinary, everyday transactions, it has very little practical application"

What are you lot going about . Because some nasty pub in Workington wouldnt take your scabby fiver ?

Get over it. And Join the Euro soon please.
72

An English Voice™,

24/01/2008 10:20:27
74. Not strictly true about the Euro being unscathed. When such a large market as the US has a crisis, everyone gets affected.:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/currency/12/13/three_month.stm

That the Euro's major countries already have economic problems, and have so for a few years now, certainly does not mean that they are in the clear with this sub-prime business.
73

morris,

edinburgh 24/01/2008 10:21:04
71
You said and I quote"and now the banknotes, which isn't an issue at all but why let reality get in the way of a good anti-English rant."

It is an issue for Scots , or we would not be debating it!
Again it has everything to do with government, and has nothing to do with the people of England, and we never suggested that it did have.
However if you really want to cement good relations between the two nations ,stop accusing us of racism, because we seek the rights afforded to every other nation only . You are the one who plays the racist card, and I have only encountered such attitudes from Unionists!The Scots and English have always had a dig at each other.We have no intention of stopping that, and we accept it works two ways also.

I have an English partner and most SNP members I know have English relatives or are themselves English.
I do not need to prove this,its a fact.WE even have English born MSPs and candidates for Westmonster.
We disagree as individuals Our nationality has no bearing on this at all,only what you say.I disagree with you for the same reason as I disagree with anybody else. It has nothing to do with your being English!If you were Welsh or Polish and said this I would still disagree with you equally.
74

Karin M,

24/01/2008 10:21:40
Every single time i have been to england i have had scottish banknotes refused. Morris as for a refusing english bankntoes try writing on your scottish notes that bank of england notes are not legal tender in scotland.
75

GP,

24/01/2008 10:28:34
3# spot on.
Most if not all of the west midlands refuse scottihs notes and the majority of lubs and shops have signs up saying so.
Des Browne smirked all the way through this subject whihc is a big problem for those travling at short notice. He is not fit for purpose.
76

An English Voice™,

24/01/2008 10:29:32
77. So there's no anti-English ranting in the above posts? Over accusations that we don't recognise Scottish notes when we clearly do? Yes, of course there are. Here's one:

In 61: "WE SHOULD NOW REFUSE TO ACCEPT ENGLISH NOTES IN OUR CHANGE"....who wrote that one? Oh, YOU!

78. No you haven't and you know it.

And these two are both SNP activists. A good insight into the mentality of the party as they slide down the polls, isn't it!
77

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

24/01/2008 10:31:34
The problem seems to me to be one of ignorance rather than a deliberate snub - most times I've had Scottish notes refused it has been because the person had not seen the note before and was not sure if it was acceptable. That is obviously going to be more of a problem the further South you go and the less likely it is that people have seen Scottish notes. The problem is usually worst with the newer notes that have been issued - they don't actually look or feel like real banknotes.
78

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

24/01/2008 10:32:41
Like all things in life , a wee bit compromise comes in handy.

Compromise isnt a dirty word.

So , next time you go on safari to the darkest West Midlands, take English Notes.
79

GP,

24/01/2008 10:32:59
74# you have not been out much have you?
You are so far off the mark you not only missed the traget your shot went backwards.
I do travel all over and there is a constant problem with scottish notes down south, a constant problem and sometimes one that is embarrasing. It makes you feel alien in your own country, or is it our country?
80

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

24/01/2008 10:33:10
As postcript - perhaps one reason that English notes are not refused up here is that our businesses are not stupid and know good money when they see it - well unless it's Northern Irish!!
81

Rasco,

Inverness 24/01/2008 10:33:27
Don't have to go to England for this. I used a £10 BOS note in the machine at Inverness airport to pay for car park was rejected all the time had to go to kiosk to pay was told said machines were made to only take ENGLISH notes BOE I wrote and asked certain MPs and MSP to check this out still waiting for a reply and that was a nearly 3yrs ago.As for the Des & David show at Scottish Questions I thought of double Ds a right pair or????????????
82

An English Voice™,

24/01/2008 10:33:56
79. More insane rubbish from yet another SNP activist.

Let's repeat what he posted, shall we?:

"Most if not all of the west midlands refuse scottihs notes and the majority of lubs and shops have signs up saying so."

What is the definition of 'psychotic'?
83

GP,

24/01/2008 10:34:17
82# not alwsys possible when travellign at short notice. Any what do you know? you stay in europe.
84

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

24/01/2008 10:34:41
but "WHY SHOULD I " etc.

Why should you care ?

Its just a bit of paper designed by a bank.

It makes you no less of a Scot. It makes you that little bit more Worldly to accept the little local foibles in the world.
85

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

24/01/2008 10:35:07
87 So do you !

;)
86

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

24/01/2008 10:37:36
Gp , They have ATMs in england you know , and strangely enough they give out english money. Keep your scottish money in your wallet for when you get back.
87

morris,

edinburgh 24/01/2008 10:38:03
74

Try changing a Scottish bank note in St Helens.They refuse to accept it , on the basis that its probably a forgery !Its no more likely to be a forgery than an English note is ,which could easily be passed from Liverpool or Manchester, both of which are close enough!
The accusation is that we take our forgeries down there ,to take advanatage of them being unfamiliar with our notes.They are unfamiliar because they refuse them!
The solution is easy.STOP INSULTING SCOTLAND by refusing our notes!

The adoption of the Euro is a seperate matter which being in agreement with,or against makes absolutely
no difference whilst this still exists.
The Bank of Scotland should have exactly the same rights to issue notes as should Bank of England,both preceeding the Union of 1707.

I accept that Clydesdale and Royal Bank are slightly different since they as far as I know were formed in 1838 and 1835 respectively which is after the Act of UNion.I can see no justification for what happens and its time it stopped.
88

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

24/01/2008 10:41:16
Leave the Chips at home and use your pin.

Morris , I can just see you taking a big wad of scottish pound notes down to St Helens to prove some stupid point to yourself.

Let it go man, lifes too short.
89

An English Voice™,

24/01/2008 10:42:02
91. What are you on?

"Try changing a Scottish bank note in St Helens.They refuse to accept it , on the basis that its probably a forgery !"

....well, that's THEIR choice, isn't it. But what has that got to do with this article?

(Excellent piece of wiki-ing to get your information, by the way.)
90

An English Voice™,

24/01/2008 10:48:39
I might take a leaf out of AM2's book and start saving this comments. Some are just priceless in their madness...
91

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

24/01/2008 10:48:52
....And Jersey notes probably wouldnt go down well in your average Glasgow boozer either.
92

GP,

24/01/2008 10:56:08
It is a racist act no doubt about it.
93

An English Voice™,

24/01/2008 10:58:54
97. What is?
94

malkster,

Scotland 24/01/2008 11:03:09
I worked in England and commuted home for weekends for years no problems with any notes either North or South of the Border this is a minor issue being blown out of all proportion. ten years ago it was an issue but not now.
95

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

24/01/2008 11:05:49
If anything its to do with ignorance over our admittedly over complicated state of affairs in the UK.

I'm sure some of those people in eth West Midlands or Jersey or the Isle of Man or Northern Ireland love their little "country" just as much as the scottish nationalists do. UNfortunately their fervour for their little part undermines the whole.

There. Hopefully that got you going.

Your part of the problem.
96

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

24/01/2008 11:05:59
Hurrah 100.
97

AJ Fife,

24/01/2008 11:08:05
AM2,

You're Irish(or have you forgotten you said that), what do you know about Scottish culture?
98

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 24/01/2008 11:09:23
#96 After being inundated by tens of thousands of e-mails from across the world, including hundreds from universities in the U.S. and Canada, the L of C trustees had another meeting and simply reconsidered it's policy.

Full details for the change of policy can be obtained by logging onto the CPSO website of the U.S. Library of Congress.
99

Vincent-W,

24/01/2008 11:17:03
WHAT A NON STORY - YET IT STIRS UP MORE EMOTION AND POSTS THAN SERIOUS STORIES. JUST A LOAD OF P*LL*CKS LOOKING FOR A FIGHT.

FOR THE RECORD I'VE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH ANY UK NOTES ANYWHERE IN THE UK.
100

An English Voice™,

24/01/2008 11:22:36
104. Oh, give it a rest.

These petty accusations that unionists are 'anti-scottish' make as much sense as that obscure 'White Paper on Independence' that so few people have read.

Unionists are pro-Scotland, as we are pro-England, pro-Wales and pro-Northern Ireland. In other words, we are pro-UK....That is what makes us 'unionists'!

It is NATIONALISM that denigrates other nations and cultures as can be seen by the many posts by SNP MEMBERS on this very page.

A brief quote to help you understand where you are