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Bullish Alex Salmond sticks with 20 MPs target but admits it will be 'big ask'

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Published Date: 20 March 2010
ALEX Salmond has insisted the SNP's aim of winning 20 Westminster seats is still the right target, as his party gears up for its last big rally before the general election.


• First Minister Alex Salmond. Picture: PA

Despite recent polls suggesting the idea of 20 Nationalist MPs is wildly optimistic, the First Minister bullishly stood by his original prediction.

But at the same time, he acknowledged it was a big ask.

"I believe in big targets," he said. "Certainly, it would be a sea change in Scottish politics, but it is the right target to have.

"If you're not going in there pitching to win, then why bother to turn up for the campaign? I think we've got an election where a great deal can happen."

SNP activists gather in Aviemore today for a party conference that will be crucial for the SNP's election hopes.

When Mr Salmond made his 20-seat prediction in 2008, the party was still basking in the glow of its success at the last Scottish election. Back then, increasing the SNP's representation in the Commons by 13 or 14 MPs looked far more likely.

Since then, the economic crisis has intensified, the SNP has been forced to ditch key policies such as on local income tax and class sizes, while the party's draft referendum bill cannot secure parliamentary support.

A recent YouGov poll found the Nationalists were a full 17 points behind Labour when Scots were asked how they would vote at the general election.

Nevertheless, Mr Salmond believes the prospect of a hung parliament gives his party the opportunity to punch way above its weight at Westminster.

Unsurprisingly, he does not subscribe to the Labour and Tory view that a vote for the SNP is a vote wasted, on the basis that Mr Salmond can never become prime minister.

Speaking yesterday, the First Minister said SNP MPs would do their utmost to ensure Scotland's 2010-11 budget would not be cut in the event of a hung Westminster parliament.

Referring to the agreement that the SNP recently struck with Welsh nationalists, Mr Salmond said: "One of the key points in our platform with Plaid Cymru and the SNP is to ensure that there are no cuts in the Scottish block (grant] for next year."

Opposition to any proposed cuts will be a key election plank for both nationalist parties, with the SNP slogan "More Nats, less cuts" set to be repeated constantly by party activists.

Mr Salmond said the only cut he wanted to see this year was getting rid of the Trident nuclear submarine dock from the Clyde, a move, he said, that would save billions of pounds.

He also confirmed he would not enter a formal coalition with either the Tories or Labour.

"What we will do is have a key list of priorities that we will be publishing shortly," he said.

"They will be the matters that we want to advance on behalf of the people of Scotland and Wales. As each vital vote comes along, you say exactly what Scotland and Wales requires to ensure support for that vital vote."







Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 March 2010 11:54 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

Cynicus Unbound,

19/03/2010 22:53:18
"If you're not going in there pitching to win, then why bother to turn up for the campaign? I think we've got an election where a great deal can happen."-ECK

A great deal? Yes, the Nats could win one and lose one. That's where my money's going in Ladbroke's.
2

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 19/03/2010 22:54:47
As the SNP are the only party sticking up for Scotland they will be getting my vote.
I dont agree with half of their policies, but afer independence is achieved, I can vote for someone else.

These Labour voters should realise they are wasting their vote on the sinking ship Labour party.

Enlgand is about to vote for 15 years of Tory rule.

Vote Labour, get the Tories.
3

Fifi la Bonbon,

19/03/2010 23:25:21
As we gaze into those puppy dog eyes, how could anyone with a soul refuse Mister Salmond his "big ask?"

He wants to defeat the labour government, so he wants people to vote against it so the tories can get in, and he says that if there are more nationalist MPs than there are now he can hold up the worst of the Tory cuts.

He seems to think we're really that stupid.

Vote for the nationalists if you're a braveheart, one of the twenty percent with a grievance against themmuns, but if you're a normal Scot, vote whatever way feels right to keep the tories out. The election isn't lost by any means but the nationalists are nothing more than a fifth column for Mister Cameron.

4

Cynicus Unbound,

20/03/2010 00:05:51
#5

I fancy the Scottish Tories to win 3 or 4 seats in the GE.

Unfortunately, Ladbrokes quotes odds for 0-3 seats and 4-7 seats. On which band do you advise me to take a punt? Before you give advice, try to imagine that this is YOUR bet!
5

Justin Timbercake,

20/03/2010 00:10:14
SNP to get 20 seats?

HA HA HA HA HA HA.

There is a higher chance of Portsmouth winning the Premiership!
6

Cynicus Unbound,

20/03/2010 00:16:12
"..if you're a normal Scot, vote whatever way feels right to keep the tories out..."-#4 Fifi la Bonbon

THAT, in fact, is the optimum strategy to secure independence: deprive the TOries of a Westminster majority, despite having a majority south of the border. The fewer Tory MPs returned from Scotland in such a scenario, the louder the megaphone demands from our opposite numbers on The Torygraph and Daily Mail to eject the subsidy junkie Jocks from the Union.

After all, why should they pay US a premium to govern THEM on matters where their majority of MPs have no influence here? If you want Middle England to press for a velvet divorce from Scotland, Czech-style, then vote tactically to elimate Scottish Tory MPs.

That advice applies to Nats too. Happy to be onside, FiFi?
7

Stephen Wayne Foster,

Miami, Florida 20/03/2010 00:18:27
What is the point of voting for Labour? You'll just get more of the same old same old. Broon and his crew are on the way out. They had their chance to improve life and now look at what you got.
8

Soosider,

Glasgow 20/03/2010 00:19:31
The article refers to recent YouGov polls, perhaps they should acquaint themselves with this piece from Peter Kellner of YouGov where he explains why they are changing their polling methodology for Scotland. In essence he states that his polls have been underscoring the SNP and overscoring for Labour, he also makes the point that using the subset of their Uk polls does not make any sense in a Scottish context.
http://tinyurl.com/ylpxxsx
Yes 20 is still a very ambitious target, but hey it surely better to be ambitious and aim high.
9

Justin Timbercake,

20/03/2010 00:19:52
6
Cynicus Unbound,

0-3

4-7 seems a bit optimistic.
10

GenePoolDebtCrises,

20/03/2010 00:21:00
re6

If it was my money I would say 0 to 3! But would have a smaller bet on 4 to 7! A bet on how many the Fibby Dims would lose might be a more interesting bet though!
11

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 00:21:16
#8
Justin Timbercake,
20/03/2010 00:10:14
SNP to get 20 seats?

HA HA HA HA HA HA.

There is a higher chance of Portsmouth winning the Premiership!
______________________________________

New MP #1 = Labour's Picking/Moffat/Johnnie Walker to lose East lothian to the SNP.

Chortle.


12

Cynicus Unbound,

20/03/2010 00:21:32
"It's deja vu all over again."-# 9 North Burnistoun Mercury


It must be more than 20 years since I heard that. It fair taks ye back.

But, in truth, nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
13

Cynicus Unbound,

20/03/2010 00:24:33
"6
Cynicus Unbound,

0-3

4-7 seems a bit optimistic"-#13 Justin Timbercake

Thanks for the advice, Rufus. I shall take it.


I see the thread's top Tory has not replied to my query.

Or has he?
14

Justin Timbercake,

20/03/2010 00:25:16
What does FSB stand for in the photo above?

15

Cynicus Unbound,

20/03/2010 00:27:11
#19 Federation of Small Businesses
16

Cynicus Unbound,

20/03/2010 00:28:05
#19 Did you think Eck was an agent of the KGB's successor body?
17

Steve McQueen,

20/03/2010 00:28:46
"forced to ditch key policies such as on local income tax" And why is that?

Joan McAlpine:
Labour ignores tax reform at its peril Labour’s continued criticism of the SNP’s alternative taxation plans smacks of nothing more than spite. The widespread unhappiness at the burden of the council tax was driven home to me last year by a couple who planned to leave the country because of it. One worked in a factory, the other in catering, so neither were high-earners. Yet they calculated they would be better off selling up here, buying a property in Spain and commuting back and forward with budget airlines to avoid council tax. The credit crunch, falling property prices and the gloomy prognosis for cheap flights may curb their enthusiasm, but their disillusionment serves to illustrate the depth of feeling against the burden of local taxation by a wide variety of people, not just pensioners. This is hardly surprising since Band D council tax rose by 60% from 1997 to 2007. Most people didn’t opt to leave the country as a result of council tax — many instead registered their protest by voting in a new government last year. The nationalists’ tiny majority of one means that Labour continues to question their legitimacy — Lord Foulkes was at it again last week, accusing the SNP of imposing policies on Scotland without a strong mandate. But the Liberal Democrats and the Greens also want this tax replaced. This means a majority of Scots voted for parties favouring reform (65 seats out of 129 in Holyrood). Those who block change are therefore ignoring the people’s democratic will, not the other way around. The Scottish government says four out of five Scots will be better off under its local income-tax proposals — that means most couples with a joint income of up to £64,000. The new tax would be cheaper to collect because it would be administered through the Inland Revenue as opposed to 32 separate local authorities with their own finance departments. Collection rates for the co
18

Hobbe,

20/03/2010 00:29:14
I am not convinced that there is much evidence that Labour are dead popular in Scotland.

If you say "polls say labour are great and the SNP are pure rubbish etc." as this article does....what were the folk asked, how many where from Scotland, how many polls are we talking about.

The SNP beat all the westminster parties in the Euro MEP poll on votes for the first ever time just last year.

What is so suddenly attractive about sending droves of Labour MWP's to Westminster?

Nothing.

"...but the truth conquers all."

Yours,

Kinghob
19

GenePoolDebtCrises,

20/03/2010 00:29:29
re19

Federation of Small Businesses and I was there today as part of my work! You could have cut the atmosphere with a knife such was the reception Lord Fondlebum Mandy got!
20

Steve McQueen,

20/03/2010 00:30:15
2,
Collection rates for the council tax in Glasgow are currently a poor 86%. A local income tax would be more difficult to evade. The Liberal Democrats object because the proposed tax is set and collected by central government. They want local councils to control their own income-based tax. Labour’s objections are more obtuse, some would say cynical. Oppositions must hold governments to account, so you would expect Labour to scrutinise the SNP’s plans. But Labour refuse to offer a progressive alternative to an existing system that causes widespread hardship. Worse, they gleefully support Westminster’s refusal to hand over Scotland’s £433m share of council-tax benefit, meaning a shortfall in revenue under the new system. So Scottish taxpayers would continue to fund council-tax benefit in England and Wales without receiving any themselves. Perhaps one of the Scottish Labour leadership candidates would like to explain why this is a vote winner? More than any other issue, Labour’s stance on the council tax reveals a moral vacuity, a black hole that is sucking away its core vote. Labour is quick to quote hostile responses to finance minister John Swinney’s consultation on local income tax, which closed last month. These include the criticisms of organisations with priorities very different from, say, the voters of Glasgow East. PricewaterhouseCoope rs (PWC), the consultancy that has earned bumper fees from the unpopular private finance initiative, was one. The PWC objection was political — Scotland would have an income tax level at odds with the rest of the UK and this would be economically damaging. This is debatable since not having any council tax is something of a plus point and would put money in people’s pockets. The Institute of Directors and the Scottish Chambers of Commerce also oppose the plans. Employers’ organisations are understandably concerned about bureaucratic burdens on business. Sometimes, however, this is required for the greater good; employers get
21

Cynicus Unbound,

20/03/2010 00:30:15
There was a preposterous story ince that the late Michael Foot was a KGB agent - codename BOOT.

Supposing Eck was in the employ of the FSB, Rufus, can you advise them on a code-name for him?
22

Marga,

Edinburgh 20/03/2010 00:31:20
Soosider - interesting article about the polls - and it's quite a difference the authr's talking about - taking a couple of points off Labour and putting them straight onto SNP!

That's some "adjustment" - in the meantime this mistake has gone some way to damaging the SNP's credibility. Maybe he should come back in the next life as an economist (you know, powers of prediction etc.)
23

Steve McQueen,

20/03/2010 00:31:31
3,
Sometimes, however, this is required for the greater good; employers get used to it. If business vetoed every change to the tax system, chancellors might as well cancel Budget Day. Labour’s main objection, and the biggest difficulty facing the SNP, is the shortfall some experts say lies at the heart of the proposal. This is somewhat disingenuous on Labour’s part since that shortfall, £433m, is caused by the the party’s Westminster politicians withholding benefit. The Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy (CIPFA) calculates that the SNP will need another £308m, in addition to the missing benefit, to maintain a flat rate of 3%. This is worthy of examination, but surely only in the spirit of finding a solution for those “hard-working families” Labour says it supports. It prefers to defend a regressive council tax that hits the poor hardest just to spite the SNP. The CIPFA might oppose the SNP plans because of the alleged shortfall and the fact that they undermine local control of revenue — this organisation represents senior council officers. Despite this vested interest, it proposes its own “improved” version of a local income tax, since that is what people voted for last year. This positive contribution, needless to say, was ignored by opposition politicians. Labour also overlooked the submission from the all-party Scottish Action Against Council Tax Campaign. Although the group supports the proposed reform, it makes suggestions on how to make the SNP proposals more equitable — for example, by taxing the unearned income of the super-rich and raising personal allowances for the rest. Labour, though, prefers to sink any reform. Its new leader will no doubt crow about broken promises while votes continue to fly elsewhere.

24

Rasco,

20/03/2010 00:33:13
Is Gray throwing his hat in to stand in for Moffat wonder if he voted to get rid of her,anyone know.
25

eck788,

Leven 20/03/2010 00:34:16
A recent YouGov poll found the Nationalists were a full 17 points behind Labour when Scots were asked how they would vote at the general election.

Who commissioned that one?
26

Cynicus Unbound,

20/03/2010 00:34:34
If the theory that WeeGirlie is Ann Moffat in real life is true then I'm outa here.

She'll now be here 24/7.
27

Justin Timbercake,

20/03/2010 00:34:55
20
Cynicus Unbound,
20/03/2010 00:27:11
#19 Federation of Small Businesses
---------------------------------------

You are too honest.

I was thinking more like

F** S**** B******!
28

Justin Timbercake,

20/03/2010 00:35:58
31
Rasco,
20/03/2010 00:33:13
Is Gray throwing his hat in to stand in for Moffat wonder if he voted to get rid of her,anyone know.
------------------------------------------------

Observer will know.

She knows everything.
29

GenePoolDebtCrises,

20/03/2010 00:36:19
re12

Taking 3 points of the SNP and putting 3 onto Labour you mean. I read the article in question! That was just for starters! It does eem strange that they should do that as he, Kellner, has effectively destroyed the reputation of his company. Not just north of the border but south of it as well!
30

,

20/03/2010 00:40:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
31

Soosider,

Glasgow 20/03/2010 00:43:48
#36 GenePoolDebtCrises
I do not suspect anything sinister merely a polling company updating there methodology, what it showed me was that as far as the polling companies were concerned Scotland was not something they pay a lot of attention to, for them to allow there weighting to fall so far behind the changes in Scotland over the last 3 years seems to demonstrate this rather well.
One of the other effects of these corrections is that it shows the Tory revival in Scotland to have been a myth, however it does seem as ig the LibDems ahve fallen from their high in 2005 of 22% down to about 14/15%
32

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 00:43:57
#31
Rasco,
20/03/2010 00:33:13
Is Gray throwing his hat in to stand in for Moffat wonder if he voted to get rid of her,anyone know.
___________________________

Gray hates being Salmond's comedic fall guy each Thursday so he wants to move to Jim Murphy's job. The Labour executive have no intention of listening to some ex-miners and fishermen so they will retain her as they and ony they have any say in her future. There is no plan-B.
33

The Answer,

Glasgow 20/03/2010 01:20:19
He has my vote!
34

morris,

edinburgh 20/03/2010 01:21:33
What never fails to amaze me is just how wide of the mark the usual suspects are!
They will gloat if the SNP "fail" to achieve the twenty seats target they have set",(but may have doubled their seats tally),and rejoice in the knowledge that they have elected a Tory government into SCOTLAND,when even the village idiot can work out this is a probable outcome if not this time then next time round,totally against the wishes of the Scots, and completely miss the point,which is Labour got humped off the planet and will struggle to form a circle.


I'd call them stupid, (but it would be a compliment to them)
You have only done this for four successive elections and got the ravages of Thatcher because of it!
Labour voters were saying Aye but they didnae get in in Scotland! Oh yes they did,and it is because of bird brain unionists who think backing three legged horses is a good bet.
Now you want to do it again.
In future opinion polls should include the Labour vote in a new category called DONT KNOW ANY BETTER .
They are playing the hung parly card,but in that event the SNP would be in a position to win significant benefits to/for Scotland,where Labour would be forced either into political deals in Scotland and dancing to the SNPs tune,or at least forced into opposition and possibly wiped out in effect.

Labour cannot possibly win,and anybody who votes Labour on that probability should be certified.
35

McGubbligan,

Oz 20/03/2010 01:47:27
We know there's no difference between labour Nobs and tory Nobs. They're both tories.
Vote labour, vote conservative, get tory. It's that simple!
36

walter,

20/03/2010 01:49:44
they have elected a Tory government into SCOTLAND
I was under the impression that this was an election to elect the UK government in Westminster not a Scottish government in Holyrood.

totally against the wishes of the Scots,
Again I was under the impression that the people from all over the UK were going to the polls not just those from Scotland.
37

walter,

20/03/2010 01:53:18
Labour cannot possibly win,and anybody who votes Labour on that probability should be certified.

Then I presume you agree that since the SNP cannot win and form the next UK government either any one who votes for them should also be certified
38

Old Jim,

Aberdeen 20/03/2010 01:54:04
I sincerly hope that the SNP do get AT LEAST 20 seats
Voting Labour is a waste of time and would be idiotic to do so as they have never done anything for Scotland and have no intention of doing so in future
Voteing Libdem, the same,just a bunch of fence sitting self servers. As for Tory, hell will have to freeze before I contemplated that idiotic thought!
39

Old Jim,

Aberdeen 20/03/2010 02:08:26
Just read an example of where the SNP are standing up for Scotland, interestiling I haventseen it reported in this paper.
From the Times 'National Grid does U-turn on charges'
National Grid said it had ditched proposals that could have more than doubled the cost of transmitting electricity from the north of Scotland. The SNP Government have been pressing Ofgem and National Grid for some time to give Scotland a fairer deal on transmission charges. Well done the Scottish Government!
Curiously Jim Murphy was defending the high charges as being perfectly acceptable, I wonder what spin will come out from him now.Hopefully we only have a few more weeks of that idiot before the ectorate kick him out
40

JWW,

Whitburn,West Lothian, 55.86667 -3.68500 20/03/2010 02:11:05
Is Salmond becoming greedy wanting 20 MPs?

Look how the “Tartan Tories” changed the face of British politics in 1979 with 11 MPs by forcing a no confidence vote on the Callaghan Government?

And we all know what devil was unleashed on the people after that election?
41

Old Jim,

Aberdeen 20/03/2010 02:23:51
#52 JW
Actually you are completely wrong , the SP did NOT force a no confidence vote.According to Callaghan's memoirs it was his own back benchers that did that. The SNP along with other opposition MP's voted against the government
Sorry to burts a favourite Labour myth!
42

GenePoolDebtCrises,

20/03/2010 02:46:38
I see that the Labour trolls could not resist a smear attack on Billy Wolfe!
43

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 20/03/2010 03:42:21

Just 20 ?

The smart money is on 30 - 40 for the Nats.

Dont expect Labour to pick up any seats at all outside of Glasgow and Fife.
44

Castaway™ ,

20/03/2010 04:12:39
Latest betting total number of seats SNP wins at the next General election.
0 - 5 : 8/1
6 - 10 : 5/4
11 - 15 : 6/4
16 - 20 : 6/1
21 - 25 : 10/1 etc
45

Baggy Troosers,

20/03/2010 04:29:08
#4 Feefee.


"he seems to think we are stupid"


In your case he seems to be spot on.
46

DeanConinPeteFSteed,

20/03/2010 04:31:12
“The Opposition, of course, want nothing like that. They want the very reverse. They want to get rid of the Act. But the SNP motion was enough for the Opposition Chief Whip. I am glad to see that he is now securely perched on the Front Bench. I hope that he will not fall off. When the SNP tabled its motion, the right hon. Gentleman went into action. He scurried round to the Liberal Party to find out if it would vote for a motion of censure—and he was not disappointed. The Liberals, spinning like a top, assured him that they would be ready, indeed that they were anxious, to take part in talks with the Government on the future of the Acts, but, equally, they were ready to vote for any motion that would prevent such talks from even beginning.
Fortified by that display of Liberal logic, the Opposition tabled their own vote of no confidence. We can truly say that once the Leader of the Opposition discovered what the Liberals and the SNP would do, she found the courage of their convictions.
So, tonight, the Conservative Party, which wants the Act repealed and opposes even devolution, will march through the Lobby with the SNP, which wants independence for Scotland, and with the Liberals, who want to keep the Act. What a massive display of unsullied principle!
The minority parties have walked into a trap. If they win, there will be a general election. I am told that the current joke going around the House is that it is the first time in recorded history that turkeys have been known to vote for an early Christmas”
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1979/mar/28/her-majestys-government-opposition-motion#column_471
47

DeanConinPeteFSteed,

20/03/2010 04:37:32
Handsome Scotsman
#55
The smart money was to put their money on Darien too, and see how that turned out.
48

Baggy Troosers,

20/03/2010 04:40:05
#52 Numbskull.

The Devil you refer to and Gordon Broons favourite polititian , was unleashed on Scotland because England voted Tory and Scotland voted Labour.

As for your "Tartan Tories "jibe ,well Annabelle Goldie will be the one they follow.
49

Baggy Troosers,

20/03/2010 04:46:03



THERE IS NONE SO BLIND
AS HE WHO WILL NOT SEE
50

FrancesP,

20/03/2010 04:48:29
"A recent YouGov poll found the Nationalists were a full 17 points behind Labour when Scots were asked how they would vote at the general election."

But the most recent YouGov poll (for the Scottish Sun, sample size 700 or so) shows Labour on 39% and the SNP on 26%. Granted, that's still a substantial lead, but why quote an earlier poll by the same company, unless the intention is to mislead?

I take it you're also aware that YouGov conceded yesterday that they've been regularly understating the SNP's support by 2-3 percentage points, and overstating Scottish Labour by the same amount? They've just altered their methodology to correct this problem.
51

Satire above all,

20/03/2010 05:09:21
What I want to REALLY REALLY know IS what is going on behind the very closed doors of Glasgow City Coucils hallowed chambers.

And WHERE WHERE WHERE is our escapologist friend, the one and only Mr Steven Purcell

Does anyone know? Is he alive or is he dead? has he been kidnapped? Why isn't Interpol hot on his tail? Will he ever show his face again?

In hiding till well after the next election, I guess! Does anyone smell a RAT?
52

Geoff,

sa 20/03/2010 06:30:46
Nice to have a meaty thread on which to comment Mr.Editor! Lots of opportunities for "hunnerbagging" today! Where is my long absent friend AJ Fife?

On subject-dont want to get involved in any punchups here-leave that to yous on the ground in Scotland but if I was back in the UK I wouldn't have any strong feelings about any of them. I like Alex salmond-think he is an able politician but as a Unionist could not support him for Westminster. Tories? LibDems?
53

Submariner,

20/03/2010 07:03:34
There is no doubt about it, We Eck and the tartan taleban have totally lost the plot as well as my vote.
Having voted for several different parties in the past I am going to vote UKIP this time. Their policies on things like energy and immigration are spot on.
54

Geoff,

sa 20/03/2010 07:19:20
65 Submariner-the problem with supporting small parties is that whilst their policies may appeal they are in reality no hopers for any say in government and maybe a wasted vote. On the other hand if people really want change then perhaps its time to break some moulds in the UK
55

Submariner,

20/03/2010 07:49:37
66 Geoff, you are possibly correct. The main thing is to get Gordon Brown out of power. I would have voted conservative in order to achieve this but I do not think Cameron is strong enough to lead them. I can see UKIP taking a substantial number of votes and perhaps being in a position to influence things. They certainly have the right policies as far as I am concerned.
56

The Tin Man,

20/03/2010 08:02:00
67 Submariner,

UKIP was the fourth most popular party at the last general election, got exactly zero seats, and their agenda has been completely ignored (although they did get as many EU seats as Labour last year, I am not too sure if democratic representation counts for much in Brussels / Strasbourg).

So, they will have to wait for a bit of proportional representation.
57

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 08:07:42
Surprising that comments are allowed on this subject.

Didn't seem there was any chance of commenting on Comrade Broon lying about the defence budget??

Funny that................!
58

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 08:10:06
Oh and I think I'll vote for the SNP.

The only party to look after Scotland and the Scots.
59

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/03/2010 08:19:04
We are really fortunate in this country in having someone of the calibre of Alex Salmond on our side.

He is probably the most impressive UK politician of his generation, mind you, when you look at the standard of the opposition that would not necessarily be all that difficult.

30 SNP MPs would be better than 20 which in turn is better than 7.

However, every SNP MP is a voice for Scotland and the same applies to PC in Wales.

In these difficult economic times, Scotland needs every voice we can get.
60

helsinki man,

Finland 20/03/2010 08:25:47
4.fifi

come on girl..the younger generation are mostly fed up and dont feel British but Scottish.Unionism is olh hat.
If anyone stays in Norway for more than a week they´d see the light..
old dears like yourself are living in the past..
nice to hear the old folk have an opinion though...
61

Nelson51,

Newcastle 20/03/2010 08:32:07
The plight of the Scots is reminiscent of the Sioux Nation. Being chased from their homeland to cater for the needs of a multi-racial, over-crowded England. Vote SNP for Independance then sort out the politics.
62

Marian,

20/03/2010 08:33:43
Middle England is about to elect a Tory government for Westminster which will in all likelyhood be in power for at least 15 years and there is nothing that Scotland can do about it except protect itself as best it can by voting for a political party that will stand up Scotland first.

Labour's track record in opposition is petty and pathetic as we have seen in the Scots parliament and also when Thatcher was in power and they are so wedded to their defence of the union that they would sell their own grannies first and foremost before they would ever stand up for Scotland.

A vote for the LIb Dems is a completely wasted vote for they have proven themselves to be no different from Labour in their petty and pathetic opposition performance in Scotland and Westminster.

So there is only one choice for voters and that is to vote SNP, a political party that will always place Scotland first.
63

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 20/03/2010 08:35:27
#71 "We are really fortunate in this country in having someone of the calibre of Alex Salmond on our side"
"He is probably the most impressive UK politician of his generation"
Surely you must realise that your obsequious encomium makes it difficult if not impossible to treat as serious any thing you may say.
You do your cause no good by these sycophantic scribblings.
64

A Crofter,

Fat Arsk 20/03/2010 08:38:47
"I believe in big targets."

Quite.
65

Martinh,

20/03/2010 08:41:09
Nicola Sturgeon confirmed this morning that it is the official SNP hope that there will be a hung parliament after the UK GE, and that Scottish (and Welsh) interests are best served in that scenario by increased Nationalist representation.

Given that the Conservatives have consistently been ahead in the opinion polls (often substantially)it is now confirmed that the SNP support a Tory victory.
66

Gdgy,

20/03/2010 08:41:38
Why should we vote SNP?

I don't want independence so apart from that what are they doing to do and what have they done????

Apart from break promises and fail to deliver.....

67

The Tin Man,

20/03/2010 08:44:32
75 Mercutio,

A striking example of 'the long brown tongue' by Mr Bully! Anyway, it is touching to see that the Cult of Personality through unquestioning flattery and praise has made the long journey from Pyongyang. Personally, I think Sturgeon and Goldie are streets ahead of Cake Stand Man, who has demonstrated himself to be as trustworthy as Peter Mandelson. Scots even think that Gordon Brown is better. Funny though!
68

Suffer Unto My Apocalypse,

20/03/2010 08:46:53
Dùn Èideann Bully Wee
#71 Personally I find Alex Salmond to be a poor politician. Maybe you consider Alex Salmond being a poor politician as a good thing for Scotland.
69

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 08:47:04
Nicola Sturgeon was interviewed on State run radio 4 for sixty seconds this morning, Stazi4 announcer asked only two well informed two questions and never mentioned Iain Gray's constituency.

Question one where he informed the nation that polling shows the SNP are more than twenty points adrift on Labour and only one point ahead of the wiped-out Unionist party in Scotland, is Alex Slmond being realistic in calling for twenty MPs?

I thought everyone was informed these polls were Zanu-Labour fiddled.

And secondly, why are the SNP planning to drop the policy of "free nursing care for the elderly"?

Has British Nationalist4 radio got inside information or is this their idea of providing equal and balanced access to the leading parties in Scotland?
70

Martinh,

20/03/2010 08:47:11
#75. 'Surely you must realise that your obsequious encomium makes it difficult if not impossible to treat as serious any thing you may say.'

Try #37. You will 'arf arf' until you stop!!
71

RealityChecker,

UK 20/03/2010 08:49:10
Post independence, what will the SNP split into - Lab, Tory, Lib Dem?

What currency - £ , Euro - and have absolutely no control over interest rates? Create our own - how would it fair on international markets?
How much debt would we have - RBS,HBOS?
EU - In out. Scot Nats used to be for leaving EU; now they're for it. Being run by the EU is hardly independence!

72

,

20/03/2010 08:52:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
73

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 20/03/2010 08:53:42
#82 arf arf is the sign off from another poster from "An Eaglais Bhreac"
We can all do a bit of cod gaelic for patriotic purposes.
74

Martinh,

20/03/2010 08:53:47
#81. Eh? The interview was at least 5 minutes and gave Sturgeon a full and uninterrupted opportunity to explain SNP policy. I actually think Sturgeon is a much better balanced politician than Salmond, who thinks that shouting and bluster will bully people to vote SNP. Sturgeon is quiet and articulate, and I can support her for that even if I don't agree with her.
75

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 08:55:09
#75 Mercutio - re #71

I read the whole post and fail to see how you could detect any "obsequious encomium". Not that I have the faintest idea of what obsequious encomium is.

I shall ask Alex Salmond...he knows everything.
76

noswod,

Honestas 20/03/2010 08:55:26
Scotland will win the world cup in Argentina. A Scotsman invented penicillin; the first TV was Scottish. These are all very popular Scottish Urban Myths like the SNP will win 20 seats. The unfortunate thing for the SNP is that they have Still No Policies for the Economic and Political regeneration of Scotland other than give away free parking at Hospitals and other what they think are vote winning scams such as the Aberdeen bypass. If Slamond had focused on changing the paradigm of the Scotland away from State dependency to that of making the long term economic structural changes to spending to change direction where Scotland can become a true social democracy like our friends in Scandinavia. But no the Tartan Tories have acted like the wee Tory Cooncillors they are. Here's a bribe Jimmy vote frae me. Time to send these Tories masquerading as nationalist’s back to Castairs.

77

,

20/03/2010 08:58:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
78

Rob7,

England 20/03/2010 08:59:35
This is not good for England. Scotland has damaged England over the last 13 years beyond anything possible. Blair was born in Scotland, Brown is also Scottish, and Salmond wants to also ruin the country. Please go for total independence and then stop interfearing in English internal affairs
79

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:00:28
77 Martinh

No, what it confirms is that the SNP would prefer a hung parliament as opposed to one where Torys or Labour, with similar policies, have a substantial majority.

For your theory in your second paragraph to be correct they would not want a hung parliament but a Tory majority.
80

The Tin Man,

20/03/2010 09:00:58
81 Jimmy Fae the West,

Your comment is of the same caliber as your claims that the SNP supports carbon capture by, erm, voting against a carbon capture power station... Hmmm... Please keep it up, I read your bizarre thoughts with great amusement!
81

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/03/2010 09:01:08
The vitriol and abuse heaped upon Alex Salmond by his political opponents is an indication of the fear and loathing they have of the man and everything he stands for.

For many of them they still cannot come to terms with the fact that we now have a Salmond led SNP Government and this above all else is what sticks in their craw.
82

Front Street,

Grange Court 20/03/2010 09:02:28
Let's not forget SNP's record of voting with the Tories?
83

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:04:44
85 Mercutio,

What is "cod gaelic(sic) and how does it apply to "An Eaglais Bhreac" which as far as I can see is correct Gaelic?
84

The Tin Man,

20/03/2010 09:06:51
93 Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

As far as politicians go, "vitriol and abuse" springs principally from your Idol, Mr Bully. You may find that to be a factor contributing to his unpopularity.
85

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:07:42
94 Front Street

Do you mean like Labour/Lib.Dems consistently vote with Tories in the Scottish Parliament? Do you mean like the Lab/Lib.Dem/Tories were allied in setting up the Calman Commission?
86

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 09:08:22
#77 Martin,

You said, "Given that the Conservatives have consistently been ahead in the opinion polls (often substantially)it is now confirmed that the SNP support a Tory victory"

Aye and anyone voting for the warmongering New Labour Sleaze party in Scotland, is effectively wishing a Tory government on the people of Scotland.

VOTE SNP
87

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:09:33
96 The Tin Man

Unpopular in contrast to which other politician?
88

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 20/03/2010 09:11:09
#93 Not at all, the SNP led by Salmond has made a reasonable fist of the Holyrood project.
You by your fawning unctuousness redolent of Uriah Heep invite descriptions of Mr Salmond which are less than flattering.
89

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 09:12:37
#88 Noswood,

My what a stupid post.

Who presided over the biggest increase in the rich/poor divide???

Take your time.
90

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 20/03/2010 09:14:06
#95 Brownlie. Of course it is correct, it is its use by some posters on here which I consider "cod".
91

The Tin Man,

20/03/2010 09:14:28
99 brownlie2,

Erm... Gordon Brown, although our political behemoth is, apparently, more popular than Shiny David, north of the border.
92

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 09:15:24
Noswood,

Who shafted the lowest paid???

Take your time
93

,

20/03/2010 09:17:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
94

Martinh,

20/03/2010 09:17:55
#91 brownlie2. OK, then it is now official SNP policy to hope for a hung parliament where the Tories are the largest party, and able through coalition with Nationalist MPs to agree on a common agenda for the next 5 years. When do the Cameron-Salmond horsetrading talks begin, now in secret, or after the GE?
95

,

20/03/2010 09:19:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
96

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:19:55
103 Tin Man

I'd be very surprised if Dun Eideann Bully Wee's idol is David Cameron. Does Brown actually have some connection with Scotland?
97

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:22:07
102 Mercutio

What do you mean by "cod" and how does the use of Gaelic by anyone who chooses to use it qualify for this description?
98

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 09:25:32
The election isn't lost by any means but the nationalists are nothing more than a fifth column for Mister Cameron
-------------------------
How sweet and sooooo 1970's.

I know retro is all the rage but this is 2010. Get ''with it'' Fifi.
99

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:25:32
106 Martinh

By definition a hung Parliament is one where no party has a clear mandate, as Labour currently do, to run rough-shod over the wishes of the electorate. Their more extreme policies will, therefore, be tempered by other parties.
100

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 09:29:20
Observer will know.

She knows everything.
-------------------
You give me far too much credit Rufus.

However I would recommend that people read the Herald today, it appears they have dropped their policy of omerta regarding events happening in their own back yard.
101

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 20/03/2010 09:29:26
#109 befool , dupe , fool , gull , put on , put one across , put one over , slang , take in
102

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 20/03/2010 09:30:30
#113 Tell us more I must have missed it.
103

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 09:31:43
106 You are just making that up. There is no official policy of hoping for a Tory win and the Tories are trying to talk to Alex Salmond not the other way around (it was in yesterday's paper).
104

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:33:43
102 Mercutio

Incidentally, is "Mercutio" a form of "cod" Latin and do other posters see it as such?
105

McGinty,

Glasgow & Aberdeen 20/03/2010 09:34:08
He needs to stop the grandstanding and the belittling of opponents by shouting them down and cliched rhetoric and rather rely on decent debate and argument, which his party is more than capable of, even if one doesn't agree with them - they screwed up bigtime over Trump and possibly over Megrahi. I would have voted for libdems over the nats twenty five years ago, but I definitely would vote for the nats now - they're standing for and doing basically what the libdems should have been doing all along, but they seem to lack the will and gumption for it.
106

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 09:35:20
115 I will be accused by Rufus of going off topic but here goes:

'Expenses claims and hospitality bills from several companies established by Glasgow City Council are to be inspected by authority officials and a cross-party councillors.

In the wake of damaging allegations following the departure of council leader Steven Purcell, the head of the council’s recently established scrutiny committee is demanding clear policies from the agencies on what information they make public.'

'The move follows reports in The Herald this week that City Building, an arm’s-length company set up by the Labour-run council, awarded two large deals to City Refrigeration, a firm run by Willie Haughey, who has donated £11m to Labour since 2003'
107

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:36:06
114 Mercutio

Excellent, in view of my post at 117 I can't help laughing!
108

Labour No More,

20/03/2010 09:37:25
It doesn't matter who you support or if you are a floating voter, there has never been a better reason for supporting the Nats. Next year we are going to see cuts that are unheard of.

I believe that thsi is like 1974 when the Nats had 13 MPs and the work poured into Scotland after that. It was the only time in my working career when you could quit today and get another job tomorrow. Not silly Call centre jobs but real Engineetring jobs.
We are treated now like a poor relation or a wee colony and I totally blame SLAB and worse the STUC.
These organisations have sacrificed Scotland for a place in English Politics.
I will not support Labour or Unite until they demand Fiscal Autonomy.
109

walter,

20/03/2010 09:37:57
I did not hear the interview with Sturgeon on radio 4 this morning, was the deputy leader of all other political parties there to be interviewed on the same broadcast or are the BBC breaking theirs and OFCOM regulations by only having one deputy leader of one political party on the programme.
110

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 09:38:03
116

Morning Observer,

"You are just making that up. There is no official policy of hoping for a Tory win.."

No, but an SNP MP has been quoted as saying a tory win would be 'perfect' for the nats.

Oh, and all the slavering from the cybernats who can't contain their glee at the thought of a tory win is a bit of a clue too.....
111

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 09:39:05
115 'A request for Steven Purcell’s ­official work diaries to be made public has been blocked by Glasgow City Council – because the authority says the material is not its property.

The Herald and its sister paper the Evening Times had asked to view the appointment diaries of the former council leader, who quit his post 18 days ago citing stress and exhaustion'

A rapid change in editorial policy from the Herald, not before time.
112

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:39:06
118 McGinty

I would suggest that his ability to debate is the main reason why the "big three" party leaders do not wish to debate with him.
113

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 09:40:49
122

Walter,

A good point. Everybody knows that OFCOM insists on equal coverage in EVERY broadcast.

Time to call OFCOM, the police, the army, the coastguard and the UN about this illegal broadcast......

114

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 09:41:50
#88 Noswood

The people you despise so much are all that stand between you and a lifetime of alternating Tory and ersatz-socialist governments in Westminster.

Labour Prime Minister, Ramsay MacDonald, helped the Tories make the workers pay for capitalism's crisis after 1931...80 years down the line and his heirs are following the same path.

Still making the same excuses, same empty promises and invoking the same imaginary bogiemen...voting for them is akin to being a serial self-harmer.

A spell in a secure mental hospital may save you from yourself.

115

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/03/2010 09:42:03
108 brownlie2

“I'd be very surprised if Dun Eideann Bully Wee's idol is David Cameron.”

Ha!

What a thought!

Anyone believing that obviously has not understood any of my previous posts.
116

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:42:03
123 Grahamski,

Good morning, dear, do you have any evidence of this "slavering" and "can't contain their glee"?
117

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 09:44:16
123 Well a Tory Govt in Westminster and an SNP one in Holyrood would create the perfect storm politically speaking. However I think the point is Grahamski, and hence the reason why I vote SNP, Scotland will not determine who is in government, that will be determined by our numerically superior partners in the union. We are hostages to fortune.

Although I personally think making Scotland a Tory free zone is the optimum outcome for this election, in case they do get in. That would put us in a strong position to challenge their mandate.
118

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 09:46:24
Yikes Observer you're getting to be a right wee prurient scandal-monkey aren't you?

You and wee John Mason can try and make as much political capital out of this personal tragedy as you like - I suspect Mr Mason will have plenty of time to help you grub about after May 6th......

119

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 20/03/2010 09:47:54
#120 I am of course prone to a little cod Latin but the moniker is based not so much on his name as the famous quotation re "both your houses".
I did not wish in any way to attempt to diminish the Gaelic language.
120

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 09:48:05
129

Mr Brownlie,

Plenty of evidence on the Scotsman comments boards.

Fancy your chances at lunchtime?
121

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 09:50:37
131 I don't think Labour privatising public services and using them to siphon off money to themselves and giving deals to their pals like Willie Haughey is a personal tragedy. And Purcell could have avoided personal tragedy by refraining from hanging about with gangsters and shoving Columbian marching powder up his nose.
122

Martinh,

20/03/2010 09:50:55
#116. I am simply trying to apply a little logic to the situation.

The Tories have consistently been well ahead in the National opinion polls for over two years now, mostly substantially. FACT.

Narrowing of recent polls has pointed towards a hung parliament where the Tories are the largest party. FACT.

The Tories are doing better in the key marginal seats where all GEs are won or lost. FACT

The bookies have consistently given short odds on a Tory victory/largest party. Labour are distant betting outsiders by comparison, and bookies don't like giving their money away. FACT.

Tie all this together and the cryptic message from the SNP about preferring a hung parliament actually means that they are planning to work with a future Tory Government. Conjecture akin to fact?

Or put another way, vote SNP and get the Tories.
123

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:52:10
133 Grahamski,

Taking no prisoners today, 3-0 for the away team!
124

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/03/2010 09:52:52
130 Observant in Glasgow,

I do not disagree with those sentiments but would go one stage further by wishing to see Scotland being a Labourtory free zone also.
125

Labour No More,

20/03/2010 09:54:15
Obs you should be content with your lot remember we are treated exactly the same as all the other colonies were
America, India, Canada, New Zealand & Australia all had the benefit of contributing to the Treasury and next year when money is tight the investment will be equally spread, it has started already with the fiscal stimulus going to Ford in 6 regions so the Ford Factory in Scotland will benefit from the stimulus.

Yes folks we have to vote for the Party that has the best policies for Scotland.
126

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 09:54:33
Funny how Comrade Broon, Our warmongering Dear Leader was quick to put the boot into Comrade Devine but supports Comrade Purcell, his criminal activities and sleaze and corruption??

Wonder what the difference is???
127

Ex SNP Voter,

Buchan 20/03/2010 09:54:46
Salmond is cuckoo.......................
128

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/03/2010 09:55:00
135 Martinh,

“I am simply trying to apply a little logic to the situation”


You succeeded in applying “very little” logic to the situation.

129

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 09:56:36
135

Martin, if you're Scottish and I assume that you are, the SNP want you to vote for a Tory-free Scotland. Irrespective of your facts it will be England that decide the next UK Government.
130

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 09:58:50
135 ''The Tories are doing better in the key marginal seats where all GEs are won or lost. FACT''

Yes that is a fact, thank you for illustrating my point.

The outcome of the GE will not be decided in Scotland.

That's the reason why I vote SNP. I want the people who live in Scotland to decide who governs them, not people in the key marginal seats somewhere else.
131

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 10:00:34
136

Mr Brownlie,


Here's hoping....
132

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 10:02:06
#135 Martinh,

Put it any way you like...a hung UK Parliament with a large SNP group, is the only scenario where the Government of the day will think twice about putting the boot into Scotland.

I would prefer that Scots called the shots in Scotland, regardless of who the English vote for.
133

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 10:02:54
143

It's a UK election which will be decided across the UK. No matter how hard you try to parochialise this election the fact remains that it is bigger than the SNP's toon cooncil mentality and that is why they have seven out of the current fifty nine Westminster seats.
134

Soosider,

Glasgow 20/03/2010 10:07:50
146
Yes which is why the UK will almost certainly elect a Tory Government, while in Scotland they will get something like 16% of the vote, and maybe 1 to 3 seats out of 59, that is the crux of the matter. If you are happy enough with that then fine, me I see this as a democratic deficit.
135

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 10:07:51
#146 Grahamski,

Ditch the Navy and white Scarf and buy a Man U one instead.

You are not worthy.
136

Eric D,

Former SNP voter 20/03/2010 10:09:48
Smarmy Salmon is in for a shock in this election.This will be the first time the people can exercise their view on recent events -:

1) The release of the Libyan mass-murderer

2) The mess they are making in the education system

3) Their cluelessness on the economy - no vision.

4) Their continued faith in service sector/banking and their ridiculous adherence to expensive and damaging 'global warming' faith.

5) Their enforced 'diversity' and social engineering going on in our schools

6)Their open door immigration policy and their kneeling at the alter of diversity and multicultural often at the expense of the majority ( see Sturgeon's letter to the law courts concerning her Pakistani criminal constituent.).

7) Their constant breaking of manifesto pledges

8) Their constant flag waving as if they are the only party looking after Scotland's interests , when the reality is very much different (see 5 & 6).

Looking forward to Smarmy Salmonds face on May 6th.
137

john z,

edinburgh 20/03/2010 10:09:54
Labour have been lording it in Scotland since I was a lad. They have achieved nothing for Scotland.

If you want change in Scotland, people need to stop just automatically voting Labour.

The SNP are currently the ONLY political party actually fighting for Scotland.
138

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 10:10:39
#140,

My what an intelligent, witty, cutting edge post!!

The union is safe with unionists like you!!
139

Seamus B,

20/03/2010 10:11:08
Labour won't win this election and Labour's feeble fifty have not been forgotten.

The only way to ensure Scotland is effectively represented in Westminster is by voting SNP.
140

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 10:11:34
146 It's a UK election which will be decided across the UK
-----------
It will be decided by the key marginals South of the border as your fellow traveller Martin has pointed out, so helpfully.
141

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 10:12:30
148

Mr Blimp,

I have no absolutely no idea what you meant in your post. I take it from the tone you meant to be abusive?
142

Martinh,

20/03/2010 10:14:02
#142. brownlie2. How curious that you think that my place of birth makes a difference to the argument. However I will take your advice on behalf of the SNP in the Scottish constituency where I reside that is most likely to result in a Tory free Scotland. As the SNP were in 4th place last time and almost certain to remain there, and where the Tories are the front runner right now, I will not be voting SNP and with you blessing too. Thanks.
143

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 10:14:15
153

Observer,

"It will be decided by the key marginals South of the border "

As this is a UK election individual national boundaries are irrelevant. Unless you're an obsessive nat of course.....
144

walter,

20/03/2010 10:15:46
The nats continually go on that the English cannot tell the difference between England and Britain yet they themselves cannot tell the difference between Scotland and Britain.
145

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 10:16:28
Eric and the clown at 140,

When did you ever vote SNP???

How come you are so vitriolic towards the SNP when claiming to have voted for them in the past.

We had another half wit on here a couple of weeks ago exclaiming in horror that, only after joining the SNP, did he discover they were left of centre.

Pathetic

146

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 10:16:29
156 You and Martin are doing well today, the GE will be decided in England abd national boundaries are irrelevant to the process.

Yes, you are right.
147

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 10:17:21
158 He gets his script from the BNP - best ignored.
148

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 10:18:04
158 I mean the Eric creature obviously, not you.
149

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 10:18:45
#154 Grahamski,

Bathing in everlasting reflected glory - the Unionist's Nirvana...Not compatible with supporting local two-bob Football Team.



150

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 10:20:12
My, My, we've now got two so-called ex-SNP voters posting. I wonder why it is about the other parties that made them change their voting intentions?
151

john z,

edinburgh 20/03/2010 10:21:42
149 Eric D

Why did you spend so much time writing that tosh?

1 Most in Scotland agree with the Scottish Government approach, and the release. So, do Labour in London!

2 They are doing a lot better than the previous 10 year Labour/LibDem shambles.

3 The Scottish Government do not control the economy - try googling Alistair Darling.

4 Piffle

5 What?? Are you aware of the Labour party manifesto commitments on Education??? Good heavens, the SNP are smart, compared to Labour.

6 The Scottish Government has NO say on immigration - this is entirely controlled in London by Labour. With independence, Scotland could then control immigration.

7 Labour committed itself to no tuition fees in Westminster in their manifesto, but then introduced them after the election. In fact it would likely take all day to list the manifesto lies by London Labour, there are so many.

8 The SNP wave the Scottish flag because nobody else does. Labour, the Lib Dems and the tories all want to ignore the Scottish flag, and wave the colonialist Union rag.

I'm glad the SNP are waving the Scottish flag. I'm glad the SNP are fighting for Scotland.

If you want to debate, try starting with factual coherent information, rather than the guff you posted at 149.
152

Rasco,

20/03/2010 10:22:17
Just a little bit of info.Repayment for PFI/PPP reached £244m for years 2008-2009 an increase I think of £64m wonder what Mr Kerr has to say about it.
153

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 10:22:37
162

Mr Blimp,



By all means attack me and my politics but to describe the glorious Falkirk FC as a 'local two bob football team' is beyond the pale....

....retract or I demand satisfaction!
154

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 10:23:16
156 Grahamski,

Does it not strike you as odd that SNP supporters are referred to as "obsessive" or "fanatics" whereas the unionist supporters are, presumably, impartial, fair-minded and, dare I say it, independent?
155

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 10:23:24
#163 brownlie2,

I wonder what ideals it was that promoted them to vote SNP in the first instance?
156

john z,

edinburgh 20/03/2010 10:24:52
157 Walter

I'm a Scot and can tell you the difference.

Scotland is a country.

Britain is a colonialist construct.

157

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 10:27:56
165 That's frightening. Most of these things are 30 yr contracts. God only knows how much they will cost us in the long run. And the bizarre thing is most of the repayments are going to consortiums funded by the banks that we bailed out. So we get to pay for PFI twice.
158

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 10:29:04
168 Col.Blimp

They obviously met Gordon on the road to Damascus and decided "This is the very man who can save the world and eliminate boom or bust".
159

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 10:30:48
#166 Grahamski

Fair enough...two bob was the pre-decimalisation value.

Probably worth about £2.50 by now.
160

Rasco,

20/03/2010 10:33:19
170 That was only for schools.
161

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 10:35:26
167

Mr Brownlie,

I think the reason why nationalists are seen as obsessives is the fact that they see a person's attitude towards the UK's constitutional make-up as their prime political signifier.

Most people you would dub a 'unionist' see the constitutional make-up of the UK as a minor issue. They would see their opinions on economic and social affairs as a more important identifier.

Constitutional affairs are not in my top ten of political priorities.

I suspect I am not alone in this.

162

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 10:37:25
172

Yes, Colonel, that's the union dividend. Actually, Falkirk will avoid relegation but I don't want to hurt Meths's feelings by saying who will not.
163

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 10:38:08
173 Oh dear. Well thank goodness the new Southern General is being built with conventional borrowing then. I shudder to think what it would have cost the tax payer otherwise.
164

TWC,

exLabour 20/03/2010 10:38:40
The Tories will win in England, hands down. Do not believe the media when it claims theye are close.
What you must do is look at the Policies for Scotland and decide who will do the best for Scotland.
I remember 1974 and there is no doubt we really did well when the Nats had 13 MPs.
My big concern is that we are no longer an equal partner in this UK and that is the fault of SLAB, the Labour party has indeed sacrificed Scottish Financial rights for Power in England.

Someone earlier also made the point about the invisibility of the STUC, it is true they seem to have disappeared from Scottish issues too.

I fear that, though it is not my choice of party, I see the Nats as the only sensible vote with the approach of the cash cuts.
165

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/03/2010 10:40:40
174 Grahamski,

The only way we can fully address the economic and social issues is by first of all addressing the constitutional deficit inherent within this incorporating Union.
166

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 10:41:38
They would see their opinions on economic and social affairs as a more important identifier
-------------------------------------

Well, yes. In the case of the vast majority of people I know who vote SNP, obviously including myself, it is strongly held views on economic and social policy that drives us to seek a government that is more reflective of the views of the people in the country we live in.

You seem to believe that the continued existence of the UK is more important than that.
167

portonian,

scotland 20/03/2010 10:42:05
41
North Burnistoun Mercury,
. . . 20/03/2010 00:59:15
Like I didn't say earlier - "Its déjà vu all over again


what is it the first time
168

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 10:43:37
179

Observer,

Don't try and put yourself forward as the average nationalist!

You are not even a nationalist, I thought we had agreed that the proper political label for you was an independence-supporting trot?
169

brownlie2,

20/03/2010 10:46:59
174 Grahamski,

Of course you are not alone but I just wonder, because we've never been told, exactly what Iain Gray's views are on the important matters of "economic and social" affairs. Can you recall any positive measures he has put forward in the Scottish Parliament lately?
170

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 10:47:35
178

Mr Bully,

No, the only way of addressing economic and social issues is by addressing economic and social issues.

Girning about constitutional matters is an irrelevance and distraction from the real issues.

So we get to the ludicrous situation when we have folk like you claiming you don't know the difference between Labour and Tory.

That's where you are completely different from normal Scots. The people of Scotland know exactly the difference between Labour and Tory and I would encourage you to continue exclaiming your ignorance.
171

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 10:49:31
#174 Grahamski,

Every one has different opinions on economic and social affairs.

What a nationalist cannot understand/abide about Unionists is that...while they claim that those opinions are more important and pressing than the "constitutional issue"...they are totally subordinate [expendable even] to the maintenance of the Union.

This paradox renders you all either; numpties, fraudsters or brainwashed by 300yrs worth of pro-union conditioning.
172

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 10:49:38
181 You agreed that:-)
173

Martinh,

20/03/2010 10:49:45
#159. Observant. No you are wrong. My constituency is a marginal and one of the key Tory target seats, and where the SNP are in 4th place. Can you guess? I will be voting to keep the Tories out here. When push comes to shove, many people will vote to keep the Tories out and that will mean not voting for 4th placed SNP candidates. However you consider the outcome of the GE irrelevant to Scotland. I think more highly of my fellow Scots and that they should not be duped by the SNP notion that their views do not count in a UK context.
174

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/03/2010 10:51:34
183 Grahamski,

I have offered you a platform on a few occasions now to outline these so called differences.

You have singularly declined to do so.

What are you afraid of?
175

TWC,

exLabour 20/03/2010 10:53:50
182
brownlie2,
That's why people are voting for Wee Eck because Iain Gray et al have never ever told anyone what their policies are in Scotland.
There has been a void since Wendy was done in.
It is called "POLICY AVOIDANCE"

It depends on the voters voting through habit and that demands that Labour not say anything about serious Scottish Policies.

BTWks quite well at By elections but it won't work so well in the GE.

People are beginning to ask What will my MP do for me when the Money is tight in England?

When England get's a Cold we will Freeze.
176

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 20/03/2010 10:58:27

A vote for Labour is a vote against Scotland.

Anti-Scots want London rule.

Pro-Scots want self determination.

These are facts, not opinions.
177

JWW,

Whitburn,West Lothian, 55.86667 -3.68500 20/03/2010 10:59:02
OLD JIM CURRENTLY COMMENT 53.

Oh dear, have I hit a raw nerve here?

Can we just stick to the facts?

Does this comment describe perfectly the meaning of conjecture? Is the following statement true or false?

"On 1 March 1979, the Government lost two by-election seats to the Conservatives. The SNP now withdrew its support from the Government and a vote of no confidence (on an SNP motion on devolution) was passed on 28 March. Callaghan called the general election for 3 May 1979."
178

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 11:01:29
187

Mr Bully,

I don't need a platform to point out the bleeding obvious.
179

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 11:03:10
186 I totally agree with keeping the Tories out, hell will freeze over before they get in here, but if you can cast a vote to keep them out then good luck to you. Make your cross with full support from me.

But you have to admit that potential Tory seats are few and far between in Scotland, so why should we be placed in a position where they might have the ultimate say over us?

I just can't square that circle.
180

The Tin Man,

20/03/2010 11:17:42
176 Observant in Glasgow,

Out of interest, can you explain why the new Glasgow Southern General (1100 beds) is more than five times more expensive than the new Edinburgh Royal Infirmary (900 beds), because I'm confused?
181

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 11:18:38
#190 JWW,

Sticking to the facts

On 1 March 1979 the referendum on the Scotland Act resulted in a majority of those voting supporting implementing the Act, but a threshold imposed by anti-devolution MPs requiring 40% of the electorates to support before automatic implementation was not reached.

When the Government refused to implement the Act anyway, the Scottish National Party group put down a motion of no confidence.

After consulting with the Liberal Party to confirm that they were still supporting motions of no confidence, Leader of the Opposition Margaret Thatcher put down her own motion which took precedence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/28/newsid_2531000/2531007.stm
182

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 11:20:50
193 Do please post your evidence of that.

I await with great anticipation.
183

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/03/2010 11:24:34
191 Grahamski,

“bleeding obvious”

Ah yes, one party follows centre-right neo-con policies of privatisation of public utilities, PFI, decimation of the public sector, illegal wars, WMD, cash for access, expenses scams, nuclear energy, hospital closures, unemployment amongst the northern tribes is a price worth paying, .........................

And the other party, the Tories, agree with them.

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum.
184

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 11:25:26
194

Mr Blimp,

The facts are simple. The tartan tories in the SNP supported Mrs Thatcher's grab for power.

Repulsed by their shenanigans, the people of Scotland tossed 80% of SNP MPs out on their treacherous tartan ears....

You can fool yourself but you couldn't fool the people of Scotland.
185

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 11:27:08
196

Yawn.

Your Domainh nan Spartdh nonsense may play well at the Stoorieburn Alba Liberation Front but to normal Scots it is the ranting of a deranged nut.
186

Jacobite,

Scotland 20/03/2010 11:32:52


Show your passion for you country and vote SNP

What did labour do for Scotland over the decades they were in charge - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

Show your passion for you country and vote SNP

187

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 11:33:03
197 Assuming you are around the same age as me, you would've been 14 when Thatcher came to power.

Do you base all your contemporary decisions on what may or may not have happened when you were 14?
188

Freedoms Call,

West Lothian 20/03/2010 11:36:53
Scotland has only one choice, vote for self determination via the S.N.P.

Only via independence can Scotland gain control of it's resources and econemy for the benefit of the Scottish people.

People like "Grahamski" would rather have the Tories in power than see Scotland free to decide her economic future, some would call this treachery?
189

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 20/03/2010 11:38:30
Independence is coming whatever happens in the election.

If the Tories get in, Scotland realises the Democratic Deficit and demands a referendum.

If Labour get in, England realises the Democratic Deficit and demands Scotland has a referendum.

If Hung parliament with SNP 20+ seats, Scotland’s block grant will remain intact whilst England suffers the public spending cutbacks, which is an unsustainable situation.
190

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 11:39:12
201 Anyone calling it treachery would be very silly.

It's called having an opinion and we are all entitled to that.
191

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 11:40:09
200

Observer,

I'm a wee bit older than you. I was thinking about leaving school when Mrs Thatcher came to power. I formed my local CND branch when Ronald Reagan was president-elect. That period and experiences of conservative government informed a lot of my politics and attitudes.

The SNP's treachery in 1979 will never be forgiven by huges swathes of the Scottish people. The cybernats attempts at excusing it just show how little they understand about their fellow Scots.

192

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 11:41:08
The only reason to vote if and let's add enough pressure to get Gordie onto a British election date, .. . . or then again, perhaps Britain's better just avoiding British elections. Seeing as how, we've been doing everything for Britain for so long, . . . . . let's just let it gradually fade away into nothingness. Perhaps it is wishful thinking but history does repeat itself and I think King JAMES was a big fan of Britishness, just like their current BPM. WE did unite Britain then and without 'roundheads and "bluenoses"' there's a stagnant peacefulness in northwest Europe.

So, if there is a westminster election we in Scotland should only and exclusively vote for SNP BMP's. Surely, it is the most abhorrent of all, the westminster election, worse than the Euroepeans and it is our regional and national elections in Scotland for Scottish residents that should have priority. THere are many reasons for this.

Westminster, bad taxation and a recent shocker of a foreign policy (and Blair representing something in the middle-east, scunnering himself aboot). Let's get to work on creating our national and regional taxation systems from scratch in Scotland.

The only reason to vote in Westminster elections is to force them to give us complete independence. The only party in Britain that will do that is the SNP, therefore the only Scottish people voting should all vote SNP. There is no good reason for any of us, 4 million plus to vote for anyone else, only our SNP candidates, exclusively, as BMP's.

It is possible we can grapple greedy westminster's theiving monarchist taxation system clean free from their dirty hands and as Alex Salmond mentioned we will also make inroads on thier mugging military monikering. Is the SNP the only party advocating all British tropps withdraw from the illegal occupation of Iraq? We might find there would be Northern Irish and English residents voting SNP, just on that, and that there are a disproportionately large representation of Scots
193

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 11:41:15
#197 Grahamski,

Repulsed by the shenanigans of the Labour Party, in particular their treacherous so-called Scottish members.

Not fooled by the Daily Record into thinking the elction result would be decided by anyone other than the English Electorate...I cast my first ever vote for the SNP.

Had the people of Scotland not been fooled into giving these charlatans yet another ill deserved chance...Thatcher would have happened to the English who wanted her...Not the Scots - who didn't.

The people of Scotland put the Union above the "constitutional issue"...They brought Thatcher upon themselves.

They were well and truly conned...give yourself a pat on back.
194

Martinh,

20/03/2010 11:41:45
# 192. Actually there are nine Scottish seats where the Tories are in second place after the 2005 GE. These include 4 Labour seats, 3 Lib Dem seats, and 2 SNP seats. The Tories have increased their poll ratings in Scotland since 2005.

If the Tories won all of these then they would indeed be in a legitimate position where they could say they had a Scottish mandate too. Ironically, 9 extra seats for the SNP would according to their propaganda provide them with legitimacy to bargain with the GE election winner overall. I just can't square that circle. What is true for the SNP must by definition be true for the Tories. Scottish voters are empowered with real choice over outcome, and are not colonial slaves as most cybernats seem to think.

The Scottish electorate are more sophisticated than you give them credit for. I would suggest that where there is a threat to the incumbent MP in the 9 seats (+the one they hold) where the Tories are either the front runner or in second place that non Tory voters consider voting tactically to keep them out.
195

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 11:45:45
204 Funnily enough a lot of my opinions were shaped and formed during that period as well. I was initially a Labour supporter, then I realised later that they had sold out a long time ago.

If there was a Scottish Labour Party in an independent Scotland then I would support that, assuming it stayed true to the principles that the original Labour Party was founded to promote.
196

Rob Royston,

20/03/2010 11:46:27
192 Observant in Glasgow,
186 I totally agree with keeping the Tories out
------------------------
Well, I don’t agree with keeping the Tories out if the vote is given to Lab or Lib, as MartinH seems to be saying.
Only by voting for the candidate that you approve of will your vote ever count towards the type of society you wish for. The English parties are all in hock to their financial benefactors and at the end of the day only do what these powers tell them to do. Like the US is also finding out, what they say and what they do is never the same thing.
They have sunk the belief into people’s minds that tactical voting is a good thing and up to 7% of voters do this regularly. The result is that the two main parties are almost always picking up the extra votes, and new parties like the new anti-EU parties in England get left aside. It's a con.
Like MartinH, I also live in an area where the SNP are always 3rd or 4th, but I always vote for them as that is the only way that their vote will ever increase. That 7% may be enough to make the 3rd move up to 1st in my case. This is something the SNP have to keep preaching on the doorsteps.
197

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 11:46:58
Oops, the Welsh would probably vote SNP as well. If only unionism was a real communist practice in our communities. Westminster owes billions for our oil and gas, scientific inventiveness, political astuteness, etc
Just read up on Simpson, Fleming, Watt, Kelvin, Bell and Baird. You get the drift, don't you?


198

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 20/03/2010 11:48:08
204
Grahamski,
Falkirk 20/03/2010 11:40:09
"I formed my local CND branch"
-----

How interesting you now support the party of CNP.

The Campaign for Nuclear Proliferation.
199

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 11:48:51
206

Is there anybody who hates the Scots more than a hysterical cybernat?

"The people of Scotland ..brought Thatcher upon themselves."

Nope..........
200

Tennis C Williams,

20/03/2010 11:50:20
I feel it is wrong to change horses in midstream. I admit that after New Labour's promising start things did not run smoothly and the multitude of scandals did cause a lot of good reforms to go unnoticed by the general public. I am however convinced that given a second chance, Gordon Brown and the Labour Party would be under tremendous pressure to pull up their socks and really make up for the last few wasted years - especially if SNP and LibDem voters support them at the ballot boxes and prevent the untried and untested Conservatives from forming a government. Don't judge Labour by its poor record over the last few years, judge the party by its undeniable potentional to put Britain back on the map in the future. And it's the future that counts.
201

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 11:51:10
#204 Grahamski, - "I formed my local CND branch when Ronald Reagan was president-elec"

How many Labour Governments have presided over Britain's Nuclear Arsenal?
202

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 20/03/2010 11:52:48
213 Tennis C Williams

"Yes, Labour are useless but vote for them anyway"

Your being sarcastic right?
203

Rob Royston,

20/03/2010 11:54:11
197 Grahamski,
You can fool yourself but you couldn't fool the people of Scotland.
--------------------------
They have been fooled for all my working life, where have you been?
204

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 11:54:50
Will there actually ever be another westminster election? Gordie might never call it. The queen might die tonight, Charlie might leg it with a worldly waif, their children might die in battle. Salmond, Morgan and the Irish coalitions might find we have the United Nations administering England.
This would require a clear simple Scottish taxation system and we could have our crack troops back on Scots soil defending ourselves from English chaos. The 1970's all over again. Chaos in a neighbouring nation is a cracker, and it certainly is chaotic down south.

What are the odds on StMirren winning the final?
205

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 11:55:08
207 I agree with you I am in favour of tactical voting to keep the Tories out. The idea that Scots are colonised is mince. All we need to do is vote, there is no liberation struggle and anyone who thinks there is, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

But why are you suggesting that making Scotland a Tory free zone is an objective? I know why I am suggesting that - because it will give us the foundation we need to oppose them. But that is a separatist argument. Which I freely admit I am.
206

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 11:56:53
#212 Grahamski,

If you choose to bestow on your neighbour the right to choose who your government is...you have surrendered your right to complain.

You are a slave...whether you dare admit it or not.
207

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 11:58:24
219

Mr Blimp,

My neighbour (and very good friend) votes SNP. I wish I could choose who he votes for...
208

Tennis C Williams,

20/03/2010 12:00:03
#213 Handsome Scotsman

I never said that Labour are useless, only that they have underperformed and that they can do much better. I believe they will.

209

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 12:00:45
Grahamski, CND. What did that achieve to free Scotland from nuclear waste? The SNP is the only party that, given time, will achieve what the CND dreamt of achieving. What is that abbreviation? CND stood for what?
210

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 12:01:34
209 Unlike a lot of people here I think there would be a significant difference between a prospective Labour or Tory Govt.

As I have said earlier I remember Thatcher and I shudder to think what Osborne would do were he to get in to Number 11.

That is a short term view I admit. The long term view is to gain independence. But in the short term I think we need to ensure that the Tories, if they get in, have no mandate.

Given that we are talking about 9 seats at the very most I don't think that's unrealistic.
211

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 12:04:52
222 Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.
212

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 12:05:38
223

Observer,

The thing here is that the SNP believe that inflicting a conservative government on the people is a price worth paying if it leads to breaking up the UK.

Thankfully it looks as if the people don't share the SNP's cynical opportunism.
213

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 20/03/2010 12:11:58
Observer , you sound like you are willing to vote Labour if it means keeping keeping the Tories out.

Although a fellow nationalist, I am of the opposite persuasion.

I would be prepared to vote Tory to keep Labour out.

Such short term tactical voting though can only hinder the path to self determination.

Vote SNP to ensure Independence is delivered first and foremost.

Then at the first Scottish election after Independence Day, we can vote for our different political persuasions.

Democratic Deficit no more.
214

Col. Blimp IV*,

20/03/2010 12:12:24
#220 Grahamski,

Give him the deeds to your house and sign over all your pensions, insurances and bank accounts...Trust him to pay your bills and give you sufficient pocket money.

That is the arrangement Scotland has with England...and you seem to find it satisfactory.
215

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 12:14:37
226

You would be prepared to condemn your fellow-Scots to sustained conservative attack to forward your narrow parochial agenda?

No wonder your party has only seven of the fifty nine Scottish seats at Westminster.....
216

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 12:15:37
225 Going round in circles now - the SNP won't inflict a Tory Govt on anyone. You are looking at a handfull of seats in Scotland which the Tories could gain if the anti-Tory vote is split between the SNP, Labour, and the Libs. I happen to think people in these seats will vote tactically. I would agree with that.
217

Freedoms Call,

West Lothian 20/03/2010 12:15:50

Grahamski,

You want Scotland ruled from Westminster so don't complain if England votes for a Tory Government.

Alternatively you couuld vote for independence and free Scotland of London Tory rule FOREVER! but you won't.

It's tough being British eh? LOL!
218

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 12:16:39
227

Mr Blimp,

What a ludicrous and deluded post.

No wonder you come across as a deluded and bitter nut.

You are one.

Anyhoo, off to watch some football.

Play up the Brownlie Eleven!
219

bluepict,

20/03/2010 12:18:59
Well as I'm not English I don't feel comfortable voting for their PM. And,so far,there is only one Scottish party,so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess who gets my vote.

Were it that simple!!The best we can hope for is a greater representation in Westminster.
One step at a time to rebuild the Scottish Nation.
220

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 12:20:17
226 I don't agree. Tactics is by definition short term, but the SNP are not going to win at the next GE. That's why if I was in a marginal with the prospect of a Tory getting in, I would be thinking ahead.
221

Rob Royston,

20/03/2010 12:22:47
226 Handsome Scotsman,
Observer , you sound like you are willing to vote Labour if it means keeping keeping the Tories out.
--------------------
Yes, like MartinH, she is one of the 7% taken in by the Lab/Tory con of tactical voting. The 7% whose vote could make all the difference to the SNP in Scotland, UKIP in England, etc.

I notice you yourself could be persuaded to give your valuable vote to the Tories to keep Labour out. How much better if you and the other 7% could keep your vote to your chosen candidates and then you might even get the MP you desire.
222

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 12:23:49
232 So are all the people who vote Labour, Lib, or Tory in Scotland not Scottish then? I have to say I am increasingly irked by that bizarre, illogical, and generally bampottish view.
223

union for ever,

20/03/2010 12:24:06
LOL! NOT A CAT IN HELLS CHANCE,but I reckon the tory mp's will quadruple.
224

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 20/03/2010 12:29:49
Is Observer turning?
Persuaded by the Jim Murphy spin machine.

Please, please no……………
225

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 20/03/2010 12:31:37
Mr. Royston, have no fear.

Here in Stirling it should be a straight battle between Labour and the SNP.

226

union for ever,

20/03/2010 12:32:54
226. And I would vote Labour just to take that smirk of your stupid face
227

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 12:33:52
237 Of course I am not ''turning'' I have held the same views constantly.

And that view is that nationalists need to persuade people of the justice of their cause.

Calling people traitors and quislings and questioning their Scottishness is not the way to do that.

And in case you haven't noticed extremist cybernat comments are being used as a weapon against the SNP who are our collective vehicle for achieving what we all want.

I am just sick of reading posts that are counter productive.

228

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 20/03/2010 12:33:52
239
Lovely debating skills.
229

Freedoms Call,

West Lothian 20/03/2010 12:34:37
Observant in Glasgow,

People who vote for unionist parties in Scotland are British not Scottish, nothing "bampotish" about it.

If you consider yourself Scottish and not British, you vote for an independent Scotland simple as that.
230

union for ever,

20/03/2010 12:35:59
241. Ditto!
231

union for ever,

20/03/2010 12:38:05
242. WHAT A LOAD OF BO--OCKS! You can be Scottish AND British!
232

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 20/03/2010 12:41:36
Dinnae fret hen, "extremist cybernat comments" are limited to newspaper comment forums.

I suspect the larger general public are unaware and unaffected by the bravado and slandering going on in these cybercafe discussions.
233

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 12:41:54
242 You are wrong.

They are Scottish, but they see their future as being best assured within the UK. Questioning their nationality is irrelevant to the argument - which is a political one.
234

The Tin Man,

20/03/2010 12:42:25
195 Observant in Glasgow,

"193 Do please post your evidence of that.

I await with great anticipation."

Look it up yourself, before posting blindly dogmatic drivel.
235

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 12:46:11
245 I wish I could agree with you, I think the general public should be unaware of the antics of these pages, but unfortunately when they are being monitored by the press and the Labour Party to the extent that the ''cybernats'' are frequently raised as an issue in the Scottish Parliament then posters here should be aware that they could actually damage the cause they support.
236

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 12:47:03
247 So you don't have any evidence then.

Fair do's.
237

union for ever,

20/03/2010 12:51:39
245. Hen! who the f--k are you calling HEN.
238

The Tin Man,

20/03/2010 12:51:41
249
Observant in Glasgow,

OK, lazybones. The ERI cost about £180MM, and has 900 beds. I am sure you are quite capable of using a search engine. I await any explanation of the SGH cost (about £850MM) - is it a 'Govan Premium', or what?
239

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 20/03/2010 12:52:24

Scottish v's British should be what it's all about but it’s not.

In that scenario 90% ‘ish would choose Scotland and we would be independent before breakfast time tomorrow morning.

What it is really about however is the London Parties trying to persuade the Scots that they are economically unviable.

Before the rise of the SNP, Westminster had managed to engrain this falsehood into the minds of non-politically interested Scots.

Now, thankfully the tide is turning, and more and more people are waking up to the fact that politicians in London have lied and betrayed Scotland since the discovery of oil in the North Sea.

No more lies, no more belittling. Scotland deserves a chance.

Independence Day is coming. It’s just a matter of resolving the date.
240

Freedoms Call,

West Lothian 20/03/2010 12:53:12

Observant in Glasgow,

No you are wrong..they percieve themselves to be British, fact, hence they vote to maintain London Westminter rule and nationality has everything to do with it hence the struggle to regain Scotland's nationhood.

Basically it all comes down to how one percieves oneself, I am Scottish yet have live with a British nationality I niether vote for or recognise.
241

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 12:56:13
#6, Cynicus Unbound.

Go for Tories 4-7.

My prediction for the GE.

SNP - 32% - 20 seats
NuLab - 28% - 27 "
Tories - 15/16% - 4 seats
LD - 11% - 8 seats.

UK overall - Tory majority of 20-40.

Call me an optimist, but my figures are more reflective of the polling sub-sets than what is being reported.

What should be a surprise to no-one is the dearth of polling on Scottish voting intentions: NuLab and LD internal polling is not looking good for them, nor does the Tories' although it will point to them winning seats due to the collapse of the LD and NuLab vote.

It should, also, be noted that less than a month since Murphy declared the SNP an irrelevance, NuLabour has decided that its focus in Scotland will be the SNP.
242

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 12:57:07
251 D'oh that's the up front costs. It's what it costs later:

scheme / capital invested by companies / projected cash return

New Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh / £20m / £228m

Get it?
243

Handsome Scotsman,

Stirling 20/03/2010 12:57:28
250 - Hush.

No one is listening to an ignoramus that blasphemies as camouflage for deficient wisdom.
244

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 13:00:56
252/253 In a recent poll the majority of Scots - about 60% I think, said they wanted the power to raise taxes and then spend them devolved.

Now that's the foundation of a state.

So in actual fact the issue is that people don't want to ''break up Britain''.

Now I think the best way to allay those fears is to explain that we just want to govern ourselves. Not insult them.

But that's just my own view.
245

union for ever,

20/03/2010 13:09:39
252. You really are a bit of a dimwit aren't you!
If you ditch Westminster you will loose:- 22% PER HEAD MORE FUNDING THAN ENGLAND.
20 BILLION POUNDS FROM WESTMINSTER
ABOUT 30,OOO JOBS
YOUR VOICE IN EUROPE
YOUR BANKS
OH, AND YES, YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY WESTMINSTER A QUARTER OF THE UK DEPT.
246

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 13:10:43
#174, Grahamski.

"Most people you would dub a 'unionist' see the constitutional make-up of the UK as a minor issue. They would see their opinions on economic and social affairs as a more important identifier."

Your clarity is sometimes blinding in its simplicity.

You have explained the "unionist" mentality very succinctly: either Thatcherite Party will do, the Union must prevail.
247

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 13:12:34
Half time and poor Brownlie's boys are down 2-0.

I see Mr McBride is entertaining us with his wildly optimistic predictions.

SNP to take twenty seats?

Hmmm...personally I don't think the SNP will increase by any significant amount. I reckon a couple of seats either way.
248

Méths,

20/03/2010 13:13:09
Hi kimba!
249

The Tin Man,

20/03/2010 13:13:25
255
Observant in Glasgow,

No - the ERI is still much, much, much cheaper. Try again please... I am still bamboozled by the cost of the Glasgow SGH.
250

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 13:14:10
259

Mr McBride,

Misrepresenting me only shows your desperation.
251

Freedoms Call,

West Lothian 20/03/2010 13:14:54

Observant in Glasgow,

Where do you get the idea that I wish to insult people by stating the facts, as seen from my perspective, I merely state the truth?

Anyone who votes for continued foriegn economic rule i.e. London, Westminster is niether Scottish or seeks Scottish nationhood, they're British.

FACT.
252

Méths,

20/03/2010 13:15:00
258 - kimba (for it is she)

More garbage from the UKIP racist.
253

First Voice,

20/03/2010 13:17:17
The result of this election will be decided in England.
If you want Independence vote SNP always!

Too many numpties in Scotland take the attitude it's better to vote Labour to stop Tory rule in Scotland.
Wake up everyone, neither the Cons or Lab give a cr*p whether the have a mandate to rule in Scotland, they will rule regardless.

And beware because after this election the London parties are looking for ways to dump nuclear waste in our country and they will do this without strong SNP representation in the UK parliament.
254

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 13:17:51
262 Where are you getting your figues from? Here's some more from me:

scheme / equity invested by shareholders / projected dividend

New Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh / £500,000 / £168m

I think the figure you quoted was the up front cost which is negligable in PFI deals - that's why New Labour used it to keep the cost of public spending off the books.

255

Méths,

20/03/2010 13:19:19
Obs

Message received.
256

union for ever,

20/03/2010 13:20:36
265. I am not you beloved kimba(poor chap is apparently besotted with this kimba chick) neither am I a UKIP supporter.
257

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 13:20:45
264 It's not foreign economic rule for as long as the people here in Scotland accept the union with England. The people who live here are Scottish, just because they don't agree with you doesn't stop them from being Scots. That's all I'm saying.
258

The Tin Man,

20/03/2010 13:23:46
267 Observant in Glasgow,

So, why does the Glasgow SGH cost £840MM? Why is it so much more expensive than the ERI? Do they have solid gold taps on the west coast?
259

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 20/03/2010 13:24:00
Both Gordon Brown and David Cameron know that this election will be decided in England - and they will concentrate their efforts at middle England.

Scotland will - as the TV debates prove - be an afterthought.

Cameron will ignore Scotland and Brown will take it for granted.

But who really will stand up and have Scotland's voice heard in London?

The Labour Party, the Tory Party? I think not
260

union for ever,

20/03/2010 13:24:04
Oh and meth old chap my figures @258 are correct.
261

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 13:24:50
#183, Grahamski.

"That's where you are completely different from normal Scots. The people of Scotland know exactly the difference between Labour and Tory and I would encourage you to continue exclaiming your ignorance."

Again, Grahamski, you are dazzling in your clarity.

The people of Scotland do, indeed, know the difference between Thatcheite NuLabour and the Tories: their name is different.

The people of Scotland also know that Thatcherite NuLabour and the Tories are different shades of the same political entity.

Thatcherite NuLabour and Tory policy:

Trident (£100bn of wasted resources) - SUPPORT.
Iraq War (£100bn of wasted resources) - SUPPORT.
Sale of Public Housing (£bns of LA resources) - SUPPORT
Privatisation (£100s of billions of lost revenue) - SUPPORT.
Expanding the gap between haves and have nots - SUPPORT.

Thank you, Grahamski, for your honesty.
262

First Voice,

20/03/2010 13:25:41
FACT- the only party that will put Scotland's interests first every time is the SNP.
263

union for ever,

20/03/2010 13:27:15
273. David Cameron has already stated that he will work closely with Alex Salmond or who ever is Scotlands first minister.
264

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 13:27:17
#263, Grahamski.

"Mr McBride,

Misrepresenting me only shows your desperation."

Where exactly, Grahamski, did I misrepresent you?
265

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 13:29:18
275

Mr McBride,

You are a boring wee man who can only misrepresent others' view to make your grubby cheap little points.

Thankfully your views are not those of most normal Scots but reflect a bitter minority.
266

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 13:29:38
272 It isn't more expensive. That's the capital spend that has been borrowed to build it. It will be repaid accordingly. The costs for ERI will soar for as long as the PFI contract extends. The costs you quoted were the initial up front costs. The real costs happen in the next 30 yrs. It's like paying for your house via a credit card instead of a mortgage. Bad idea.
267

Casper128,

20/03/2010 13:30:10
Re: 276

Well that depends upon which part of Scotland your from isn't it?

As for the 20 seats target.....good luck.

268

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 13:30:26
Unever. There are more accountants on the European mainland. How's the pound 'holding up' with the EURO?
Shame about the ugly mugs on royaloonyon side.

Has anyone calculated the speediest Euro currency entry path? Entrenched British monarchists are drowning in their pound-driven sinking ship. Has the penny dropped yet?
269

union for ever,

20/03/2010 13:30:46
276. LOL,There speaks a voice that longs to be twined with cuba.
270

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 20/03/2010 13:32:11
Grahamski

Are u saying that people who vote Labour, Tory or Lib Dem are 'normal', and those who vote SNP are not?

Are u saying that people who want their country (Scotland) to assume all its responsibilities is abnormal?

Perhaps u could develop this strange train of thought for us?
271

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 13:32:32
278
Mr McBride,

"Where exactly, Grahamski, did I misrepresent you?"

You said I supported Thatcherism.

When have I ever advocated monetarism?

When have I ever advocated attacks on the trades unions?

When have I ever stated that less government was better?
272

Casper128,

20/03/2010 13:33:33
Re : 264

It's not foreign rule considering we are within the same country and I'm proud of being British and long may it continue.
273

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 13:33:40
284

Mr 79,

I'm saying normal Scots aren't bitter little bigots.
274

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 13:33:55
279 This ''normal Scots'' thing is becoming a motif with you and Fifi. Now I am arguing that ''normal Scots'' have a right to believe that their future lies with the UK, they shouldn't be called anti-Scottish.

Equally it is perfectly normal to believe that the future lies with independence.

This is a political question, not a question of who is Scottish or who is normal.
275

Freedoms Call,

West Lothian 20/03/2010 13:34:24
Observant in Glasgow,

"It's not foreign economic rule for as long as the people here in Scotland accept the union with England".

Yes but from our perspective it is.

"The people who live here are Scottish, just because they don't agree with you doesn't stop them from being Scots".

I disagree they're British that is the nationality and nation they vote for and percieve themselves to be. Being Scots is secondary.

I on the other hand and presumably like yourself percieve myself as Scottish only and wish Scotland to free and independent with all that intails.

I hardly think it's insulting to call unionists British.
276

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 20/03/2010 13:34:58
Was the USA abnormal for wanting independence?

Was Australia, Canada and New Zealand abnormal for wanting to control their own affairs instead of London?

How many people around the world are abnormal Grahamski?

All those who refuse to let London control their affairs?
277

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 13:36:19
#204, Grahamski.

"The SNP's treachery in 1979 will never be forgiven by huges swathes of the Scottish people. The cybernats attempts at excusing it just show how little they understand about their fellow Scots."

On the contrary, Grahamski, the people of Scotland are now aware of NuLabour's 1979 lie.

They are, in general, fully conversant with the incompetence, mendacity and duplicity of the Callaghan Labour Government 1976-9.

No re-writing of history will hide:

The McCrone cover-up.
Labour's duplicity during the Lib/Lab Pact.
Labour's duplicity with regard to the Devolution Referendum.
Labour's attempt to get into bed with the UUs.
278

union for ever,

20/03/2010 13:36:42
282. The pound is holding it's own,at present you get 1.10 euros to the pound sterling.
279

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 13:39:34
288

Observer,

The 'normal Scots' thing is in direct response to being called a traitor and quisling by (ironically enough) the brownshirt wing of the SNP.

To be honest the question of Scotland's place in (or indeed out) of the UK is not hugely important to me and certainly doesn't define my politics.
280

Méths,

20/03/2010 13:40:50
union for ever

"LOL,There speaks a voice that longs to be twined with cuba."

Twined? Don't you mean twinned?

union for ever

"The pound is holding it's own,at present you get 1.10 euros to the pound sterling."

Big deal. You used to get over €1.60! Labour have in effect devalued the pound by over 30%.

281

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 13:41:27
#285, Grahamski.

"You said I supported Thatcherism."

Now, now, Grahamski, don't go around misrepresenting me!

I said that you supported Thatcherite NuLabour. I said that you would accept either Thatcherite Party - NuLabour or the Tories, in government, rather than see the break-up of the Union.

Again, where exactly, have I misrepresented you?
282

Casper128,

20/03/2010 13:41:40
Re: 290

Those are apples and oranges.

They were not a part of the United Kingdom they were part of the disgusting British Empire, their is a difference.

It's not that it is unnatural really its just something that I fail to see the point in. Further EU integration is the way that the SNP wish to head, however is that not being ruled by a foreign power? Especially with QMV and adoption of the Euro.

I just don't understand the need for it considering we have a state government, would you be agreeable to the West Coast seperating from the rest of Scotland? The reasons why you maybe would be against that are the reasons why I am in favour of remaining within the UK, the West Coast is a part of Scotland as the Scotland is a part of the UK and all of this talk about 'we would be better off', well it is somewhat questionable, would the Highlands not be better off seperating from Scotland to retain their oil wealth?
283

,

20/03/2010 13:42:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
284

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 13:43:26
291

Mr McBride,

We have only six weeks or so to see exactly what the people think.

I suspect your predictions are wildly optimistic and expect the political landscape as regards Scottish MPs at Westminster to be pretty much as they are just now.

I think the SNP will lose Glasgow East to Labour and maybe a seat or two to the tories.

The SNP may take Ochil, they certainly are working that seat ferociously. They may take a seat or two off the libdems too but a breakthrough for the SNP seems unlikely.
285

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 13:43:41
289 It's not insulting to call unionists British. But it is insulting to question whether they are Scots.

Scots can believe that the union with England is beneficial.

I think they are wrong, but to me that is a political question and I think we should approach it on the basis that independence is practically better for Scotland than being in the union.
286

union for ever,

20/03/2010 13:43:53
291. Would you like to know the true facts matey! While Scottish soldiers are fighting to try and bring some sort of peace to the province,other scots are betraying their countrymen by fund raising for the IRA. And we all know where their loyalties lie now don't we!
287

Freedoms Call,

West Lothian 20/03/2010 13:44:30

Grahamski,

Calls people who want the country of Scotland's independence "the brownshirt wing" what a creep!
288

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/03/2010 13:44:33
277 union for ever,

“ David Cameron has already stated that he will work closely with Alex Salmond or who ever is Scotlands first minister”

Why is David Cameron in any doubt about who is Scotland’s First Minister?

289

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 13:45:34
Mr Mcbride,

You described me as a Thatcherite.

Silly sausage, you don't seem to know what Thatcherite means.
290

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 20/03/2010 13:46:46
The USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand all wanted to control their own affairs - rather than by London.

Thats what the SNP want, so there is a comparison to be made.

All the above countries have done rather well, even without the guidance of London.

Scotland could do the same - if it had the courage and conviction required.
291

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 13:48:12
#279, Grahamski.

"Mr McBride,

You are a boring wee man who can only misrepresent others' view to make your grubby cheap little points.

Thankfully your views are not those of most normal Scots but reflect a bitter minority."

Please tell me, Grahamski, where I have misrepresented other people.

Are you suggesting that what I said was untrue? If so, could you please show me what I said was untrue?

Grahamski, I am in no way bitter. Sometimes I despair of the choices that voters make which makes me sad, but not bitter.
292

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 13:49:11
293 Well in my view you would stand a much better chance of getting the kind of government you want Grahamski, which I think would accord with the kind of government I want, in an independent Scotland.

Anyway I'm off now, adios.
293

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 13:49:28
301

Mr call,

"Calls people who want the country of Scotland's independence "the brownshirt wing" what a creep!"

Err, no I didn't.

I merely repeated SNP Mr Gordon Wilson's view that those in the extremist wing of nationalism were nothing more than crypto-fascists.

Normal SNP members don't consider all their political opponents as traitors and quislings do thay?

I had rather hoped they had moved on from those dreadful Ewing days where they sneered at fellow-Scots and goose-stepped their way round the EU with their fascist Italian pals...surely those days are in the past now?
294

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 13:50:20
306

Bye, enjoy your day....
295

union for ever,

20/03/2010 13:52:35
302. Why do you think it will be Salmond?
296

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 13:56:00
#303, Grahamski.

"Mr Mcbride,

You described me as a Thatcherite."

Yet again, Grahamski, you misrepresent me. I said that you supported "Thatcherite NuLabour" and that you would rather see either Thatcherite NuLabour or its twin, the Tories, win the Westminster GE rather than see the break-up of the Union.
297

Casper128,

20/03/2010 13:56:27
Re: 304

So what would you say if, hypothetically, the West Coast wanted to control our own affairs?

Or Orkney and the Shetland Islands wanted to retain their oil revenue and control their own affairs?

Would you find that acceptable?

Again though, the comparison with the 'Empire Dominions' isn't a serious one, those countries were spread over the world and had different circumstances, the home nations share the same language, the same island, the same culture and the same political government.

I just find what you are arguing to be defined by the past and a convenient one at that. Following your logic and applying it to Scotland herself then you would be then arguing for 'home rule' for the individual parts of Scotland in the manner that they were seperate before they were conquered by the better warlords that ruled here.
298

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 13:58:07
London is the most costly capital in Europe, like a vacuum in space and unbelievably they still want more. We can get it back, whether it is our way, the European Union's or with the UN, doesn't make too many odds. They owe and they are lit by a French electricity company, all of London's residents, thanks EDF. Perhaps they should be eternally grateful for good neighbourliness. And they cost more, the more they laze around spouting rubbish. Westminster is not an essential but let's assume there is some kind of democracy there later this year, then we will be better represented with more SNP power and that is true in all of our European neighbouring nations.
299

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 13:59:39
#309, union for ever.

"302. Why do you think it will be Salmond?"

Very simple, ufe, AS is the FM and will be for the first 12 months of the new Westminster administration.

You really don't know much about politics, do you?
300

union for ever,

20/03/2010 14:00:46
304. Because Scotland has been tied to England for over 300 years,gets all her money from westminster as does the rest of the UK,had to rely on westminster to bail out your banks,and gets 20 billion pound per year from the rest of the UK to subsidise the 11 billion you contrebute yourselves.
301

union for ever,

20/03/2010 14:01:50
313. Not if he loses his seat in the GE he won't!
302

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 20/03/2010 14:02:24
Casper128

The West Coast is not a country, not a nation.

Scotland is a nation - one of the oldest on the planet.

The West Coast did not sign into a union with another country (England) - Scotland did that, because Scotland was a country before the union.

You can't deny the basic premise that the USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand did not want their affairs decided in London.

I know its inconvenient, but its true.
303

Casper128,

20/03/2010 14:03:14
Re: 314

Exactly, its just the same as what would happen in Scotland. Edinburgh and Glasgow would contribute more than any other part of Scotland. Thats how it works in any country, the revenue from the wealthy parts of the country are used evenly for the benefit of all.
304

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 14:03:30
I'm surprised union for ever's man allows her to spend so much time on these boards.

The hoosework must be getting neglected.
305

union for ever,

20/03/2010 14:05:35
312 What the hell are you talking about!
306

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/03/2010 14:06:02
315 union for ever,

Not if he (Alex Salmond) loses his seat in the GE he won't!

Which General Election are you referring to?

You don’t appear to have a clue about what you are talking about.
307

Casper128,

20/03/2010 14:07:34
Re: 316

They did not want their affairs governed by London true, but many people here don't want their affairs governed by Edinburgh which is also true, the majority don't as a matter of fact.

Sure Scotland is a country, though you are missing my point, the sentiments that you express were undoubtedly the same sentiments that the original Kingdoms of Scotland would have made towards being ruled by a 'foreign King' in Edinburgh, all that has changed is that in time it gained legitimacy as the UK has gained legitimacy for the majority of Scots over time.
308

union for ever,

20/03/2010 14:09:33
318. Get your sexes right first and then re-right your thread.
309

union for ever,

20/03/2010 14:10:45
321. And even less want their affairs governed by Brussels.
310

union for ever,

20/03/2010 14:14:00
320 Are you a complete moron! which GE do you think i'm talking about! Let me help you a little,the one on may 6th 2010!
311

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 14:14:14
union for ever,

Time for you to go.

You're making a fool of yourself.

Best you get the hoover oot.
312

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 20/03/2010 14:14:34
Casper128

So we agree - Scotland is a country and the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand all agreed that they (as countries) did not want London to run their affairs.

The UK has benefited England more than Scotland.

The top ten wealthiest areas of the UK are in England.

The UK head of state resides in England, as does the UK Prime Minister.

The UK Parliament is in England, as are ALL UK government departments.

ALL the main UK broadcasters are in England.

The UK central Bank is the Bank of England.

Scotland soes however get to build the odd warship for the UK and.............??????

union benefit, what union benefit?
313

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 14:15:13
324

I predict that on May 7th 2010 Mr A Salmond will no longer be a MP!
314

union for ever,

20/03/2010 14:15:29
325. Best you get the coffee oot,your a little pi--ed.
315

Casper128,

20/03/2010 14:15:35
Re: 316

Also, in the decades after the conquest of the other kindgoms by the more succesfull warlords then their would have been those who argued for a return to the old system, though in time those voices were drowned out as time progressed and that is what I think will happen to people like yourself to be honest.

This part of the country is firmly left-wing, Labour is the traditional power here, they are in deep trouble led by a deeply unpopular leader and yet the SNP cannot open up a large lead against them in the polls. When you look at Scottish Labour then its even more clear, Salmond is politically stronger than Ian Grey yet Scottish Labour are neck to neck with the SNP and a single point ahead of the Conservatives in Westminster preferences.

I know thats a lot to read but thats how I see things, I just think ideas like you have aren't relevant in 21st century Scotland and Britain.
316

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 14:16:23
union is stupid,

You really think AS can lose his seat at the GE??
317

union for ever,

20/03/2010 14:16:38
327. Lets hope your predictions come true.
318

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 14:17:15
Caspar, like your pseudonym, think it suits you.

So as our nation grows towards adolescence, in a modern political sense, there's a chance our elderly neighbour will tighten her purse strings while she is indebted forever. Wouldn't you write that, with steam engines(Watt), anaesthetics(Simpson), temperature measures(Kelvin), telephone(Bell), antibiotics(Fleming) and innumerable more recent medicinal innovations, Baird(TV & BBC, thus STV, etc). I do thank the Russians for satellite-driven world communications but it was Bell first and while we're at it we should thank the Dutch for introducing western medecine, they really were first and training so many young Scots medics of whom so many then set the trail in North America.

And lets remind 'Loonyon 4ever'@258 that McBride@275 has summarised our neighbours' problems created by successive westminster governments.

So, as we endeavor to clear an unstoppable debate with black and white stripes, are the Paisley professionals getting the better of the badgers in Hamden?
319

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 14:17:46
Got to agree with Grahamski on that one.

Will the bookies give odds??
320

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 14:20:38
BMP's who work in both parliaments are extraordinarily hardworking. I think he's the only one. SMP's are working for Scotland, Britain and Europe. Just a matter of priorities you see, granny.
321

Casper128,

20/03/2010 14:20:51
Re: 326

I can make the same point about Edinburgh being the Capital, the First Minister's residence being in Edinburgh, the Scottish Executive based in Edinburgh, most of the departments based in Edinburgh, the so called National Bank based in Edinburgh etc.

So your arguments are just ill-thought out really.
322

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 14:21:21
#327, Grahamski.

"I predict that on May 7th 2010 Mr A Salmond will no longer be a MP!"

I think we've found a point of agreement.
323

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 14:21:27
I wonder how long it will take for the penny to drop??

She's not quite the full shilling!!! ;-)
324

union for ever,

20/03/2010 14:21:38
330. It takes one to know one jimmy,and anything is possible with the right team and finances behind you,here's to Salmond demise
325

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 14:21:47
333

Tell you what, if you find a bookie stupid enough to give you odds I'll put my mortgage on it...
326

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

20/03/2010 14:23:49
324 union for ever,

“Are you a complete moron! which GE do you think i'm talking about! Let me help you a little,the one on may 6th 2010!”

Aha, I see, has no-one actually told you yet?

Alex Salmond cannot possibly “lose” his Westminster seat in the election you refer to.

I will leave it up to others to tell you why.
327

union for ever,

20/03/2010 14:24:07
337. ONLY A DRUNK TO CALL A MALE A FEMALE! Have I rattled some SNP feathers there jimmy old chap.
328

Suffer Unto My Apocalypse,

20/03/2010 14:24:20
union for ever
#309 Perhaps you forget Alex Salmond now is the only one in the seat, even if you see Alex Salmond as a poor politician.
329

union for ever,

20/03/2010 14:26:05
340. No,you can tell me,you made a big song and dance,so get on with it.
330

Casper128,

20/03/2010 14:26:08
Re: 324

Salmond isn't standing in the next General Election.

331

Casper128,

20/03/2010 14:26:39
Which makes his appeal to be on the debates even more ludicrous as it is already.
332

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 14:27:01
I believe that Casper128 is another incarnation of Ho Yeah!.

The structure and the semantics of his nonsense are remakably similar to Ho Yeah!, don't you think?

Or maybe he's the A(M2)nswer; all are very much the same.
333

Casper128,

20/03/2010 14:29:04
Re: 346

Your not the first person to say that, I have no idea who the person is but if you want you can think that I am that person, it makes no difference to me.
334

union for ever,

20/03/2010 14:30:58
344. Is that allowed!
335

Casper128,

20/03/2010 14:34:15
Re: 348

For him not to be a candidate? He can join the Chiltern Hundreds any time he wants so I don't know why he waited until the GE to stand down.
336

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 14:38:02
'Thomas79'@#326, in my opinion, has just made the strongest point on this thread.
We've got to get their thinskull 'Lunion=loonydom' off to The Raffles, surely we can rid ourselves of them in Singapore. No, on second thoughts, I think that Purple Tree pub frequented by the Chelsea mob in west London. They'd be hardcore unonists abounding in EDF-lit London, wouldn't there? I guess the criminal imperialist fraternity have to hide their heads somewhere, don't they?

Thomas, shouldn't we be spreading our power from Edinburgh to all far flung corners of Scotland? Well, I guess we have commercial success in Glasgow, political power in Edinburgh. Perhaps we should be moving the cultural heart of northwest Europe up to Inverness, Stirling, Dumfries, Berwick, Fort William, Dundee, Aberdeen or more onto our thousans of islands?
337

Casper128,

20/03/2010 14:40:00
Re : 346

Also the only person talking nonsense are backward retards like you and this, SNP activist Thomas the Idiot 1979.

Yes, stuck in the past, sore because Scotland has moved on, a vocal minority, now hysterical because they have lost.

A point ahead of the Tories in Scotland...Well done.
338

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 14:44:14
Single-handedly, union is stupid has made this afternoon entertaining.

Keep up the good work lassie.
339

Casper128,

20/03/2010 14:46:01
Re: 350

Yeah, what do you idiots think of that? The Party of Margaret Thatcher is a single point behind your beloved Stupid Nonsense Party!
340

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 14:54:28
353,

Who had Maggie round for tea recently???

Take your time, we know you're no very bright.
341

Casper128,

20/03/2010 14:55:22
Everyone gone all quiet eh?
Go back to your constituencies, prepare for the 20 and keep an eye out for the Tories coming up behind you!
342

Casper128,

20/03/2010 14:58:32
Re: 354

Who cares about the Labour party.
We are talking about the Tories here.
The Etonians and Thatcherites.

A point behind the SNP.

Good luck with those 20 seats and keep an eye out for the Tories coming up behind you.
343

Cynicus Unbound,

254 frank mcbride 20/03/2010 15:11:45

"#6, Cynicus Unbound.

Go for Tories 4-7.

My prediction for the GE.

SNP - 32% - 20 seats
NuLab - 28% - 27 "
Tories - 15/16% - 4 seats
LD - 11% - 8 seats.

UK overall - Tory majority of 20-40.

Call me an optimist...."


OK, you're an optimist.

You're also a sentimntalist, frank. Not a good thing when you're betting money -especially mine. Your 20 seat projection for the Nats is OTT. I'm betting against Eck's mob getting into double figures.

I think I will prefer the advice of stalwart cyberTory Rufus and go for 0-3 seats for the Tories.

My own CURRENT prediction for the GE is:

SNP: 25% - 8-9 seats
SLAB: 37% - 35-37 seats
Tories: 18% - 3-4 seats
Liberals:15% - 11-12 seats.
Others: 5% - 0 seatsms

It will be a great (and poetic) injustice if the LibDems get 3 or 4 times the number of seats as the Tories, on a lower vote, and more seats than the Nats on a substantially lower vote.

There is a real possibility of a hung parliament with a substantial Tory majority south of the border. This can only increase separatist sentiment in the shires and Middle Englad generally.

Nats and other seekers of independence should vote tactically AGAINST thr Tories where they have a chance.

I wonder if Grahamski would enf=dorse tis anti-Tory strategy?






344

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 15:12:07
#327 Grahamski, Falkirk wrote;

I predict that on May 7th 2010 Mr A Salmond will no longer be a MP!
______________________________
LOL
I predict that whenever Bottler Brown of ZANU-Labour eventually calls the election, Anne Moffat will no longer be an MP. But then poor ZANU-Labour are already scrapping a third of all their MPs, and many in Scotland so it will be no great shock, now what about Alistair Darling?

I wonder who gets the shortest odds?
345

GenePoolDebtCrises,

20/03/2010 15:14:38
re356

I think you need to look behind you if its Lord Fondlebum Mandy that is standing thier grinning and not the Tories Casper!

It will be the Fibby Dims who are looking over thier shoulders at the Tories and not the SNP Casper. Oh and Labour! Latest bookies odds put Tories favourites to take Dumfries and Galloway from Labour and Roxburgh and Berwick from the Fibby Dims! But nothing from the SNP Casper!

The SNP will be well short of thier 20 but they wont be looking out for the Tories that will be the perogative of the other 2 Casper.
346

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 20/03/2010 15:17:57
Alex Salmond will not be an MP after the GE as he is not standing. I would be most surprised if the SNP did not retain Banff and Buchan. They may even be in with a shout of taking Gordon off the Libdems. Only the high profile of Malcolm Bruce might save their bacon. I guess Salmond will do his damnedest to promote the SNP candidate, as Gordon covers both his and Brian Adam's Holyrood seats. I dont think the Libdem ploy that Gordon is a Libdem/Tory straight fight holds any water now. I predicted Salmond would take Gordon in 2007. I was proved right despite the naysayers. Too early to predict the outcome yet. Give me a month and I will make my judgement. I think the Libdems might just hold on with the SNP a close second. It will depend on whether the floating anti-tory vote shifts from Libdem to the SNP.
347

James the Pie,

20/03/2010 15:26:32
Where's union is stupid gone??

Maybe the ironing??
348

union for ever,

20/03/2010 15:29:49
James the pie previously Jimmy Le Pie can't even win a dedate with his abuse,his arrogance or his love of the bottle (baby or beer i'm not quite sure) However, either way he got his kilt in a right old twist,guess us unionists tweaked a few nerves.
349

Hobbe,

20/03/2010 15:31:12
The few unionists appear to be unaware that voting labour is not attractive for many reasons and the SNP gain from that and will continue to do so.
350

Hobbe,

20/03/2010 15:32:11
I detest the spoilers, the prolific multi posting pseudo commentators who seek to spoil the flow of political debate.
351

,

20/03/2010 15:32:56
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352

Casper128,

20/03/2010 15:36:22
Re: 363

Thats right Hobbe, because as we all know their are only two parties in Scotland, Labour and the SNP.
353

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 15:36:24
365 I hope you are just posting for a laugh because I wouldn't like to think anyone in real life was as daft as you.
354

Casper128,

20/03/2010 15:37:55
Re: 359

I respect your point of view and its true to an extend but the SNP face strong Conservative challenges in several of their seats.
355

,

20/03/2010 15:41:34
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356

GenePoolDebtCrises,

20/03/2010 15:46:35
re368

A strong challnage is one thing it is quite another to take the seat. The Labour Party will face many strong challanges in several seats from all 3 other Partys but few of those seats will actually fall to the other Partys Casper! The Tory Party is essentially decrepit and moribund and the Fib Dims are well down on thier 2005 vote, bad move deposing Charlie Kennedy on thier part!
Then there is still the strong anti Tory factor even after 13 years of Labour corruption, misrule and incompetence! A fear that will spread and maintained by the pro Labour press and media in Scotland Casper! A fear that individuals such as Murphy will play on to save thier worthless necks!
357

ppink,

20/03/2010 15:46:51
Friends, Romans, Countrymen it's time!

There are a trillion reasons not to vote for the English Parties.

And they are all under the North Sea.

The SNP leader said ' Why does it cost more to fill up in Ellon, than in London.' Can you seriously trust parties that are controlled from London. There is no question mark at the end of that sentence because it is a rhetorical question.

It's time for Scotland to stop paying for England.

A trillion pounds worth of debt! Unpayable, unbelievable.

Vote for Scotland's interests! Let's not be suckers any more.

Vote for the party that is 100% Scots.





358

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 15:47:14
369 I'm a socialist, that's the only mask I wear.

Sorry if that isn't what you are looking for but tough.
359

Suffer Unto My Apocalypse,

20/03/2010 15:48:34
Hobbe
#363 It looks like you muddle very easy and I wouldn’t be surprised if as a SNP supporter you forget to vote on election day.
360

Grahamski,

20/03/2010 15:50:07
359

"It will be the Fibby Dims who are looking over thier shoulders at the Tories and not the SNP Casper."

I suspect that Messrs Weir and Wishart will be looking over their shoulders at the tories.....
361

Hobbe,

20/03/2010 15:53:32
The tories are about as much use to Scotland as labour......no use.
362

Casper128,

20/03/2010 15:54:46
Re: 370

Of course its different, thats the system we have, FPTP unfortunately. Though what I said still stands, the Tories are going to put up a strong challenge, the SNP are only a single digit ahead and some of their supporters are retarded.

Though i'm surprised you use the term "Fib Dems"?
Where does that come from? You always seemed like a fair and reasonable person.
363

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 15:55:47
371

"The SNP leader said ' Why does it cost more to fill up in Ellon, than in London.'"

Why would he say such a thing?

Why does he think it costs more?
364

,

20/03/2010 15:56:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
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365

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 15:57:59
378 Any chance of telling me what ''group'' I'm in?
366

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 15:59:19
379

Can I guess too?
367

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 16:00:18
380 Do you know? I think someone should tell me.
368

Grahamski,

Falkirk 20/03/2010 16:02:05
381

Observer,

I don't know, I was planning on making something up...
369

Hobbe,

20/03/2010 16:03:04
Grahamski,
Falkirk 20/03/2010 16:02:05
381

I don't know, I was planning on making something up..."

The usual then.
370

,

20/03/2010 16:03:36
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371

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 16:03:38
382 I'll just need to wait for allymax to enlighten me then.
372

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 16:05:02
384 My offence is to talk to other posters?

Guilty m'lud.
373

union for ever,

20/03/2010 16:06:31
367. It certainly is very funny,Salmonds arrogance,SNP supporters stupidity and old jimmy there spouting sexist rubbish.
374

frank mcbride,

lustania 20/03/2010 16:07:13
#357, Cynicus Unbound.

"My own CURRENT prediction for the GE is:

SNP: 25% - 8-9 seats
SLAB: 37% - 35-37 seats
Tories: 18% - 3-4 seats
Liberals:15% - 11-12 seats.
Others: 5% - 0 seatsms"

Cynicus, as you're aware, I'm not a great fan of OPs, but the only one which comes up with the kind of figures that you're suggesting is YouGov, and not even YouGov is showing the LDs at 15%.

I do believe that the SNP will out-poll NuLabour, but at 32-30% your seat tally would be right for SNP and NuLabour.

I think the Purcell effect will have significance in Glasgow, as will Brown's reticence on the BA strike (Walsh & Crozier, the NuLabour MacGregors).
375

,

20/03/2010 16:09:58
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376

ppink,

20/03/2010 16:11:06
In New Zealand petrol cost half as much as the UK. It buys it on the open market and has it shipped halfway round the world.

It costs the same in Auckland as it does in Dunedin.

Why? UK Taxes,overheads,waste.

NZ does not have to pay to prop up the 'majestic' remains of the British Empire.
377

,

20/03/2010 16:11:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
378

Suffer Unto My Apocalypse,

20/03/2010 16:12:38
Observant in Glasgow
#385 Maybe he will answer you as mylaxla.
379

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 16:12:56
389 Eric D makes the same point on any thread he posts on regardless of the subject, and his points are all from the script which is genuinely issued to BNP activists.

I have never met any of the other posters you refer to in my life, I just know them through posting on here.

You have a vivid imagination.
380

,

20/03/2010 16:13:04
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381

,

20/03/2010 16:15:46
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382

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 16:17:22
394 I didn't make an effort but thanks for the mental image of Smee Rufus Fifi and myself in conference.

I am sure they will find that as amusing as I do.

383

union for ever,

20/03/2010 16:18:07
391 OMG, are you for real? both Cameron and Clegg would wipe the floor with him.
384

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 16:19:56
397 Clegg couldn't wipe the floor with a mop. Cameron isn't much better.
385

,

20/03/2010 16:19:57
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386

,

20/03/2010 16:21:11
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387

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 16:22:50
399 Having an imagination is one thing, making things up is something else.
388

,

20/03/2010 16:22:59
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389

GenePoolDebtCrises,

20/03/2010 16:23:28
re374

Grahamski! I think they will hold those seats comfortably precisely because of the anti Tory factor which I dont think has disappated any in 13 years! Just as Labour will probably hold those seats where the Tories ar a factor locally! Now that Blair is gone!

I could be wrong in this analysis but since I will be having several constituency bets as I think Cynicus will be having judging from the content of some of his posts then I will be and we will be putting our money where our mouths are!
390

union for ever,

20/03/2010 16:23:56
398. If you mean they don't insult people or bully them i'd agree however,in a debate both Cameron and Clegg have the measure of Salmond.
391

,

20/03/2010 16:24:59
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392

,

20/03/2010 16:25:24
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393

GenePoolDebtCrises,

20/03/2010 16:26:58
403

I forgot to add sounds like Frank might be contemplating a few bets as well!
394

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 16:27:11
404 Have you ever seen Salmond in debate? I mean a real one in the House not a stage managed one on telly.
395

Marga,

Edinburgh 20/03/2010 16:28:47
Edinburgh Festival 2010 events:

CALEDONIA 21-26 Aug Alistair Beaton (Theatre)

Caledonia is a story of greed, euphoria and mass delusion. It is the story of a small, poor country mistaking itself for a place that is both big and rich. It is an ancient story for modern times.
......
What went wrong? Distance, disease, corruption and culpability all played a part in this ruinous episode. Within a few years, the Scots - demoralised and impoverished - gave up their nation's independent status and signed the 1707 Treaty of Union with England.

ALSO 2 talks on 24 August, one on the play, another on the DARIEN SCHEME with historians.
396

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 16:29:31
406 You seem to be the specialist in opaque meanderings. I am sure that all the posters you allege are radical feminists and form a group will be as perplexed as I am as to what it is you think you are wittering on about.

Enough.
397

,

20/03/2010 16:30:45
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398

Nelson51,

Newcastle 20/03/2010 16:34:47
#365 Union is Severed

"CHRIST,This james the pie can't tell the difference between male and female. Wonder if he's a shirt lifter !"
A few posters are confused about your gender.
Maybe if you spent less time on the keyboard, you wouldn't be so limp wristed.
399

Suffer Unto My Apocalypse,

20/03/2010 16:42:56
the allymax
#395 Maybe you imagine it is the end for you. Imagine words are evil and working against you. Become unable to write anything now at all worth reading more like.
400

,

20/03/2010 16:48:23
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401

union for ever,

20/03/2010 16:51:45
412. So come on explain,why is the union severed
402

Suffer Unto My Apocalypse,

20/03/2010 16:55:01
the allymax
#411 Perhaps you fail to find anything to write so you have better things to do elsewhere.
403

Suffer Unto My Apocalypse,

20/03/2010 16:58:32
Nelson51
#412 Yes, why is it you believe in the union now, and in no uncertain words, severed.
404

morris,

edinburgh 20/03/2010 16:58:45
52

Callaghans government were defeated by the electorate !We are a democracy and that is how we elect/remove governments.If you dont know that I hardly think advertising the fact is a smart move.
It must follow (as a fact of historical record) therefore that the SNP was in fact propping up a government which your beloved United Kingdom and notably England did not want,(or they would have voted for them/returned them to office).That statement CANNOT be incorrect !
The opposite of what you infer is therefore true and even the village idiot should be able to comprehend the inescapable .It was quite an achievment that anybody believed Labours total crud, but to declare to the entire country that you still cant understand it was designed for consumption by the gullible and an attempt to deflect attention away from what is glaringly obvious some thirty years later,is setting new standards in gross stupidity.

WE had eighteen years of Tory government including Thatcher and it was people like you who made it possible.VOTE UK GET WHAT ENGLAND CHOOSES !
You remind me of the bus driver whose defence against the charge that he was driving without due care and attention, had nothing to do with his actions, because he was upstairs collecting the fares when the bus left the road .

Your comments are not even possible never mind sensible !
405

union for ever,

20/03/2010 17:02:52
418. You have more than England ever had or has at present,so don't start that!
406

Suffer Unto My Apocalypse,

20/03/2010 17:04:10
morris
#418 Perhaps some people might consider you a bully.
407

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 17:08:15
Marga, we wrote the Union, the English signed it. We succeeded until the vacuous nature of westminster's politics began leading Britain into braindead stagnation in the 1970's.

Status Quo emerged at the same time. It can
be said to have been in 1967, when the intelligentsia of Scotland began questioning a 260-year success story. We created economic standardisation, measures in both solids and liquids, a single currency, named Sterling, not Stirling and we progressed peacefully despite the Jacobites, etc. They began taxing us. Whisky was their first target. Oil and gas are the modern equivalents. We can also consider the signing away of our independence as the beginning of the end of our indigenous ways of life. The highland peoples were gradually physically removed from our territory, while the English began a colonisation process that has continued until now and Tesco's domination of Inverness' supermarket food supply system is another example of neo-colonialism in the very same area where Scots and Europeans fought together against the English dominion soon after the Union was signed. Industrialisation provided a way of surviving in the 18th century, which was the time of 'the clearances', Scotland's only mass migration.

The more you know, the more you realise that the union was useful for some for a while.

Our Scottish human history is known and studied with historical evidence since the end of the last ice age, around 11,000 years ago, when the ice receded revealing our incredibly beautiful landscape. We began occupying the land left by the ice. There were seasonal migrations then too, mostly on foot.

To the point, for 10,000 years Scotland has been independently progressing despite a harsh climate and mostly poor soils. There was a short-term foray with southern British neighbours. 250-odd years from 10,000 makes 2.5% of Scotland's human history interdependent with England, Wales and N.Ireland. Researching Irish and Welsh history might show even
408

Suffer Unto My Apocalypse,

20/03/2010 17:11:01
Ed's everywhere
#421 Perhaps you might find salt came before whisky.
409

morris,

edinburgh 20/03/2010 17:11:05
62 I take it you're also aware that YouGov conceded yesterday that they've been regularly understating the SNP's support by 2-3 percentage points, and overstating Scottish Labour by the same amount? They've just altered their methodology to correct this problem? What does that mean exactly? Do you mean they have acknowledged being liars and were/are politically biased ?It sure sounds like it!
If political polls are being used in this way, it is not enough to question their credibility. If the returns are doctored (and the purpose is clear enough)I would think legal action against them should be a matter of some priority.They seek to influence the voting intentions and are therefore guilty of non democratic practices.Interfering in the democratic process should result in custodial sentences against those responsible in my opinion.
410

union for ever,

20/03/2010 17:11:50
421. YOU ARE A NUT JOB!
411

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 17:18:42
If Gordon Brown is arrested on Monday morning, is a 15% swing only in Scotland impossible?

No!

Prime-ministers have no need to instruct reporters that they intend to remain after losing the election unless their Jaiket is hingin' on a very shoogly nail! Brown may well be superseded before the election unless the Tories are seen as weak.

Brown may well walk away if a stalking horse (heehaw Millipede) is put up against him and he only gets tacit support.

There are a great many anglos even among the Labour party down here who think exactly the same as Jeremy Clarkson of Gordon Brown-the Scot and would happily see him sent homeward to think again. It is very possible that we will see a challenge to Gordon Brown's leadership from within his own fractured and likely to be mostly unemployed party.

In the light of these possibilities, the collapse of the labour party in Scotland (something neither he BBC nor the mass Labour party down here care a jot about) is a very real and present danger. Would only a fifteen percent swing in Scotland towards the SNP be so very unlikely?
412

union for ever,

20/03/2010 17:24:36
425.In the Land of Green Ginger.MORE LIKE LA LA LAND.
413

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 17:26:37
426 Or it could be Hull?
414

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 17:41:30
Irish and Welsh histories might show that an even more shortlived 'union', with more recent English colonisations and more longlived independence, at least, you should know with Irish history, having been colonised for far less time(1801, they unionised with our union, politically)and chose to fight for an earlier independence from English colonialism. There's a far more progressive economic neighbour who are many generatins ahead of us in Scotland, if we do have a similar independent progress ath. And in the taoiseach with no reliance on westminster in almost every sense, they manage three tiers of politics; each Irish county, national and European (admittedly, with the added complexity of anglo-Irish, the northern counties.
The Nowegian comparison might be a better one.
415

Nelson51,

Newcastle 20/03/2010 17:48:32
#414 Union is Severed

Getting catty are we ?. Handbags at dawn then ? Seem to have struck a raw nerve with the revelation that the Union is finished. Maybe if you and other
labour /Unionist trolls got a job, the UK would be in better shape.
416

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 17:49:52
#422'Apocalypse', never thought I'd be writing to such a demeaning self affronted 'person'. Fresh fish and bear, wolf, rabbit, hare, eagle, deer meat, all freshly barbecued, pal. We traded across mountains and seas but essentially, our struggle against the elements was independent.
Have you been reading anyhting different from the archeologists, historians or any other source?
We can be farming more cattle, growing a more diverse range of fruit and veg. While we will be trading more and more with the billions the English are owing.
Can I rename you, "Subbed under your poxiflix"?
Would you and yours have been relying on a mucky crusade to bring you salt from a promised desert?
417

Tennis C Williams,

20/03/2010 17:52:10
I think tactical voting may become the norm at the general election. My advice to all Unionists would be to forget the Liberal Democrats as the first-past-the-post system will prevent them from winning any seats. On top of that I would recommend us all voting for the Labour Party unless a Consrvative candidate has a chance of beating his Nationalist opponent. I know many Labour supporters and members will find it difficult to vote for a Tory but the difference between the parties has definitely shrunk since Thatcher stood down and Tony Blair entred the scene. Reducing the number of Nationalist MPs would auger well for the Holyrood election next year.
418

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 17:52:54
'Lunyin ever' seems to be getting the rag end on this thread.
419

Peter Dow,

Aberdeen 20/03/2010 17:53:45
The SNP: a right-wing monarchist, unionist party?

Is the Scottish National Party a right-wing, monarchist, unionist party telling lies, only pretending to support Scottish independence?

It seems to me the pro-monarchy, pro-Union-of-the-Crowns leadership of Alex Salmond raises a question and discussion point about the appropriate description of the "Scottish National Party" - and that "a centre-left nationalist political party committed to Scottish independence" is not being represented by Salmond.

Monarchy is a right-wing idea. Salmond by publishing right-wing monarchist documents is not representing centre-left views in any way.

The Union of the Crowns, a monarchical and social union and united kingdoms are all unionist ideas. Salmond by publishing unionist documents is not representing an honest commitment to Scottish national independence.

Listening to Salmond and reading his documents, you would suppose that if he was leading a party it would have to be a right-wing, monarchist, unionist party.

Not only is monarchy right-wing it is also against national independence - since an independent nation elects its own head of state and is not TOLD who its head of state is.

Also in opposing the true independence of the Scottish nation, by going along with the subjugation and enslavement of the Scots to the imposed head of state, Queen Elizabeth, and that being very much against the interests of the nation, the SNP royalist leaders certainly and possibly also the party ARE NOT THEREFORE "NATIONALISTS" BUT TRAITORS AGAINST THE NATION!

Peter Dow is the author of the Scottish National Standard Bearer website - scot.tk

The For Freedom Forums, Forums for robust political debate - figh.tk
420

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 17:57:44
433 I think you get the prize for looney tunes post of the thread so far.

I'm going out now but I will be surprised if anyone can match you for sheer drivel.
421

Méths,

20/03/2010 17:59:09
kimba

You are thick - totally thick. You know naff-all about politics. You now naff-all about anything apart from gutting fish.

Begone you fishwife ... BEGONE!
422

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 18:01:47
433 Well maybe kimba is more drivelly than you, but you do a fine impression of an idiot.

We had a King in 1707.

Becoming a republic (which I favour) is something to be decided when we are independent and by the Scottish people.
423

Méths,

20/03/2010 18:02:18
"I'm going out now but I will be surprised if anyone can match you for sheer drivel"

Haven't you read kimba's meanderings? She's completely baffled - discombobulated if you will.
424

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 18:03:10
On progress paths, the taoseach is streets ahead but the westminster arrogants have to accept the British Isles have 5 parliaments, even if the Welsh and Northen Irish are still calling theirs 'assemblies'.
I'm just wondering if the Belfast-ish assembly will be more active than westminster or the 'London assembly' in 2020. Is 'Boris Karlov' still sporting Europe's second largest city? Amazing really that Paris is still supplied and supplying so much dirty electricity. EDF is mostly nuclear muck but it does own and supply London's electricty 'system'. Shameful really but that's what the tories did for them along with selling off the train network, thus causing repeated train accidents and capitalist culpable homicide of commuting workers in the old smoke. Was that not reason enough to put Thatcher in the dock?
425

Méths,

20/03/2010 18:03:30
I'm getting pi­ssed off with the amount of crazies posting here.
426

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 18:03:37
#407, GenePool.

I'm having a problem with SNP: 10-14 and 17-21.

A 2% lead over NuLab gives 10-14.

A 4% lead gives 17-21.

I'm inclined to 17-21: Opyimus and AR are showing it going in that direction. Also the fact that NuLab is not keen to have its commisioned polls published.
427

Observant in Glasgow,

20/03/2010 18:04:52
439 Me too but I'm heading out now - will check back later.
428

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 18:13:23
Hoy, 'méths' gve me a peek at that, 'dicombobulated', sheer brilliance. Who's kimba? Must be a mother superior, a typing foetus, a twin being with umpteen brains or possibly just a red herring? Where have they come onto this hairy thread?
429

Méths,

20/03/2010 18:21:11
Union for ever is the discombobulated one.
She's been kimba and a host of others.
She denies it, but we all know it's her.
Mad as a fish she is.
430

Baggy Troosers,

20/03/2010 18:23:54
#431 Tennis.

So you are admitting that the Labour party are as Tory as the Tory party , well done.

Margaret Thatcher when asked ,what was her favourite achievement when in power ,replied the creation of Nu-Labour.

Gordon Broon invites Thatcher to tea(with saucer) announcing that she is his favourite polititian and that he admires her.

Is it any wonder that the Labour party Followers are confused and don't know which way to turn.
431

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 18:27:07
Peter Dow#433, tend to agree with some of what you've written. However, merely because of how chummy Alex Salmond has made himself appear with the diminished wifee on the throne. Not having read much of his stuff, can you link us to the worst of our leader's politicking, the rightwing stuff, that is more appealing in this current political environment. We ought to be keeping a bit more up the sleeve but you haven't seen any of the left sleeve have you? You know with pure capitalist corruption so clear in most of England and parts of Scotland, he has been projecting the more rightwing aspects of our independence struggle, for the time being.

So, what were the 'crowns of thorns' thingie? Annie Lennox, "Thorn in my Side", "Walking on Broken Glass". Good metaphors, aren't they?
The nation is Scotland and you are sadly mistaken to think any member of the SNP, traitorous to Scotland and as yo can see from Salmond's rapport, he is far from treachorous towards the wee wifee stuck in the palace.
432

Méths,

20/03/2010 18:30:25
Peter Dow

Are you Steven Purcell by any chance?
433

eck788,

Leven 20/03/2010 19:08:48
#65

Having voted for several different parties in the past I am going to vote UKIP this time. Their policies on things like energy and immigration are spot on.

United Kingdom Independence Party. Is that the Party that now wants English Independence.
434

Dr Jenkins,

Lanarkshire 20/03/2010 19:19:55
'Have you ever seen Salmond in debate? I mean a real one in the House not a stage managed one on telly.'

Yes. A televised debate from Glasgow University Union,
George Robertson MP opposing. Three times Salmon asked,
'but George, what's your second choice' (regarding independence) . . . splutter, splutter, splutter from GR.
435

,

20/03/2010 19:24:16
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Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 20/03/2010 19:32:12

#449 Who in hell would vote for L I EBour or
Dick & Doof.

From Today's Guardian..

Dick & Doof proffer change.. Aye right..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/mar/19/labour-ed-miliband-radical-manifesto?showallcomments=true#end-of-comments

Their Radical Manifesto means nought - could be written on a roll of Bog Paper - We all recall L I E Bour saying they did not need to stick to their Manifesto - nothing will change.. up to their sweaty necks in lies.
437

,

20/03/2010 19:37:39
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,

20/03/2010 19:46:25
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Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 20/03/2010 19:48:12
#449 We do Live in a Country controlled by idiots
of the N U L I EBore kind.
ID Card anyone..?
440

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20/03/2010 19:50:22
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Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 19:51:47
#449
Another Whitewash,
Lanarkshire 20/03/2010 19:24:16
I and my family all voted SNP in 2007.
We will never vote SNP again.
After seeing their policies no way in a million years would we want to live in a country controlled by these idiots.
_________________________________

How many times have I have told you before Prince Philip, check the policies before voting for the party!!!!!! The SNP are a left of Centre party, you wanted the ZANU-Labour party who are extreme right-wing.
442

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 19:55:35
#451
Another Whitewash,
Lanarkshire 20/03/2010 19:37:39
450
The SNP are just as bad as L I E Bour .We certainly won’t be voting L I E Bour
______________________________

BNP it is then?
443

,

20/03/2010 19:55:43
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444

First Voice,

20/03/2010 20:02:45
Alex Salmond is the best statesmaqn and debator we have ever had in Scotland.
We'll see if Elmer Fudd does a runner again before Question Time next week.
The last time he was on it was embarressing for everyone watching.
SNP wins every debate hands down every time...why?
The SNP represents Scotland only, other parties have other agendas.
The only reason Labour are still in the fight and haven't been booted right out of this country similar to the Tories, is that many people in our country are poorly educated and cannot make informed choices.
They vote Labour 'because I was brought up voting Labour'. Sad but true.
When these generations die of, Labour is finished in Scotland and will never return.
445

eck788,

Leven 20/03/2010 20:05:47
#449
I and my family all voted SNP in 2007.
We will never vote SNP again.
After seeing their policies no way in a million years would we want to live in a country controlled by these idiots.

No matter which PARTY you vote for. You get a government run by THE PARTIES for the PARTIES.
What we need is a written constitution. Giving back the government of the UK back to the electorate.
Failing that we need is independence from the UK.
As it is presently, it is no good to Scotland or any constituant part of the UK.
446

Robbie Ree,

20/03/2010 20:07:19
449
Another Whitewash,
Hahahaha.
Me and my family,blah,blah,blah..

Is that it?
447

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 20:28:03
#458, It will be interesting to know whether Fudd intends to end his Hellish torment at every FMQs by trying to jump ship to be alongside Jim Murphy in London?

Will Johann Lamont be up to the job of filling the seat for Labour's bright charismatic and enigmatic brilliant young Scottish leader?

All supposing Gray actually quits Holyrood before throwing his lot in for the London seat and where his real ambition lies, and of course losing east Lothian for Labour, for ever. No all woman Lists in East lothian. All La-la land supposition of course as labour may ignore democracy again and let Moffat keep her seat/expense account. It has a year since she claimed for a bathroom and two since she bought yet another Kitchen.

448

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 20:38:17
Eck788@447, Who are they? Where are they likely to lead you? You know the pound just keeps losing value like a stone in a loch. It's simply a sinker. The Euro is what we all need. Short-term economic European history. The European Community began 1950's, hardcore west central Europeans, spread and grew gradually creating sustainable food for themselves and to export. Expanded with gradually more nations forming up economic unity. Wilson said no, as he did to most things. Ted Heath finally decided it was for the best and we paid huge aditional payments for late entry. The Spanish and Portuguese then came in and it has only grown stronger as time has passed. We, in Europe have made economic and monetary union in three generations while on the British Isles it took us from 1318, Bannockburn until 1708, just to get peace from the beligerant English invaders. That is for nigh on 400 years we grew up, fed, educated, fought and died to defend our families in Scotland. We Scots wrote the union and created peace in northwest Europe over 250 years ago. Now, many Europeans know we are a backward island mixture who need some help once in a while. The stable, traditional party which you and I can trust is the SNP. NuLab/SLAB, who are wolves dressed in suits with an aggressive foreign policy and a cunning that robs everyone stuck in the Britain. The tories who you know will own fill their own pockets and screw up and sell off everything of value on the islands. And this UKIP group who seem to be new mini-Hitlers similar to the BNP.
Who is leading us now? Why are you not hungry like so many are going hungry in England. Who has free healthcare for every adult over the age of 65? Who has a further education system that is accessible for Scottish residents? Who has a civil society that is not gangrule? Where is ther most crime and homicide? How on earth would UKIP improve anything?
449

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 20:42:03
459 eck788, Leven wrote;

What we need is a written constitution. Giving back the government of the UK back to the electorate.
Failing that we need is independence from the UK.
As it is presently, it is no good to Scotland or any constituant part of the UK.
______________________________________
Are you watching Tory Toff Michael Portillo on BBC 2 right now? He is in Northern English housing estates pressing the flesh with scheme-dogs and pretending that he supports bringing power and democracy to the people. The programme is a sham, he is a sham and so are his white supremacist policies. Portillo had his chance when he was Thatcher's policy advisor when she won her first general election in 1979. It must be living in London that turns these people in duplicitous haters of the rest of the nation.
450

Suffer Unto My Apocalypse,

20/03/2010 20:49:40
Ed's everywhere
#430 Perhaps there is a subtle communication problem from you. Forget about everything now which was badly used in trying to insult me from you. Forget about everything now which was totally out of context with what I wrote to you. Want the union to continue now or maybe not, this is not what I was asking originally to you. Prefer the union now, from this point, to divide for good that is also up to you and your own thoughts. What I want to know is why all the other rubbish in your posts?
451

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 20:56:28
'Another whitewash'. You can see a new yellow layer covering just being peeled off the artificial decorativeness of what those southern parties are trying to hide; deprevation and decadence. Th L I E bour mobsters are incomparable. With SLAB=NuLab you can be sure of nuclear risk, possibly until there are no islands, greater stealth taxation, poorer healthcare, worsening education and further economic stagnation. The tories have ideas and a feel for things. They'll do nothing, if we're lucky. If they get too much power you know they will thin out all governement expenditure, you can expect nothing but poverty and hunger if you don't all work and they probably will allow the Irish or the Australians to make your passports. All services may be provided from offshore, where they may imprison anyone they don't think suitable on ships and thus provide you with what you want in inhumane, nenderthal imprecision. You cannot be serious about trusting more Etonite buffoons who are little better than criminals, can you?

You can also choose the Communist Party, Socialist Workers, BNP, other extremes that have been appearing elsewhere and , . . . .

THE GREEN PARTY, the LIBDEMS and the SNP, three established serious, no pranks, trustable groups that don't tend to party and who you know won't invade, tirade or charade. The rest don't get a look-in, do they?
Glad I can choose from at least three decent international political groups. None of that 2-horse shenanigans.
452

Suffer Unto My Apocalypse,

20/03/2010 20:57:20
the allymax
#452 You would have to start debating properly for anybody to start debating with you. Hate writing on here in a logical manner, then why don’t you stop writing on here? What ever, try to make a good job of it from now on.
453

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20/03/2010 21:17:39
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Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 21:23:45
SUMA, are you a wrestler? The British Union is merely one of a mass of problems in norhtwest Europe. It is the first obstacle Scotland has; westminster's tax system and England's aggressive foreign policy.
Please read more on all the complexities. The Dutch have suspended the Binnenhof, they have no government. There's a strike on emailed communications in Ireland's civil service that is essential to their government services and there's been a rush on passports in Dublin. The chunnel was closed for a while. There's Berlusconi who reminds me of Mussolini. There's still massive unemployment in many European nations. England's a criminal's paradise. There are too few of us discussing things in a civil manner. We were allowed to use redirected 'road clearance' chemicals during 'the big snows'. The Germans generously provided us with it having bought it from Africa and it was destined for our pharmaceuticals industry in the European Union before it was thrown onto roads where the snow would have melted given time. The POUND is in freefall, while Europe moves forwards and according to so-called 'opinion polls', there are millions of Brits thinking about voting in the snotty schoolkids, who complain about their lunches while England's problems are just beginning, we should be cutting free from it with a close watch on it so we can all progress in Europe.
How's your apocalypse theory panning out? A feminised SUMO wrestler. Where's your clarity? Are you really so negative about your future? If you like your abbreviated nomenclature, SUMA could be Sunny Under My Astuteness=SUMA.

Maybe you just trust the politicians too much or believe in their ability just a tad too little. Still think you should be known as 'Apoksiflix' or' the wrestler of thoughts'.
455

,

20/03/2010 21:28:44
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frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2010 21:38:01
#469, Another Whitewash.

An appropriate moniker, I would think.

I believe that this is what you Party requires of its new British members.
457

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20/03/2010 21:39:27
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Cynicus in ExiIe,

20/03/2010 21:39:44
469 Another Whitewash

Most who vote SNP do so because they want a better deal for Scotland. It is not necessary to trust them beyond believing that the SNP also want a better deal for Scotland.

Whether you desire independence or not, the SNP is the only party who gives a sh*t about Scotland and you are free to jump ship whenever it suits.
459

,

20/03/2010 21:45:51
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20/03/2010 21:57:16
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brownlie2,

20/03/2010 21:58:22
471 Another Whitewash

Yes, indeed, it's a pity about your party.

I suspect that Fascists and Marxists will have quite interesting conversations at this week's conference.
462

Steve McQueen,

20/03/2010 22:03:05
Just seen the rugby result, cool!
463

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 22:10:22
C'mon, it's early Sat evenin an youse are doon the pub or twitchin wi' all the media cuvrage. After a Satdi afternoon like this there's got to be more from oor TV punditry.

So, lets listen to the elders telling us how this all looks mighty like the mid seventies. I can only think there's never been a time like this in all our histories, when we can be preparing building materials, new bricks, new concrete, new roofing materials and all the interior bits and bobs. We can be making a new Scotland. Our new building industry. Construction fit for all of Scotland.

When it comes to complex politics, there are some mighty fine questions we should be asking any politician on the streets anywhere in northwest Europe.
How are you going to provide us with food?
What will your policy be on criminal children?
What advice can you give to parents struggling to make ends meet and bring up their children?
Where will you make a difference in comparison to your predecessors?
What are you going to be investing in to make safe, clean electricity for our future generations?
When will you be writing and distributing any real policies?
What's the use in us listening to you when you will most probably renege on what little you may have to offer?
Wouldn't we better with a more simple straightforward means of governance?
Isn't it about time you made some real progress instead of all the banter?
Can't you see this community needs materials and tools to begin rebuilding what is collapsing?
Wouldn't you prefer us to start over with a completely new perspective?
What can any of us do to save the pound?
Shouldn't we have joined the Euro a decade ago?
Wouldn't we be stronger in the European Union without westminster?
What about when the chaos and criminalism is really out of hand, will we recieve military support from the UN or the EU?
How's the security on your house?
How do we make glass so perfect anyway?
Have a wicked journey back down south, won't you?
464

The Answer,

Glasgow 20/03/2010 22:42:00
I heard on the grapevine that Scotland's share of the UK population is only - 8%.
465

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 22:46:07
Reading the nonsense from unionist posters on here it is clearly past time to smash the rotten regime that run Scotland from the corridors of Whitehall.

Zanu-Labour and the Irish Horse-trading party have been caught breaking the rules on party funding without remorse or regret but the shameful Demi-Liberal party brought London rule to a new low on Wednesday when they, embarrassed at least by being caught in their own scandal of illegal funding attacked Sean Connery who is completely innocent of the vile and scurrilous accusations. The fact that the leadership has failed to distance itself from the FibDems proves that they too are not deserving of a single vote from Scotland. I was once in a Birmingham BBC Radio 2 studio with Charles Kennedy LibDem and Dr David Starkey when the consensus between the two men and the audience was that Scots today have not evolved beyond their troglodyte state. Such is the concern of these parties for we Scots.
466

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 22:49:02
Anstruther Kitesplash, Can you trust your feelings? Are you about to tell me that having a cocktail party with fellow tories in a castle makes you confident in your not so real society? It is possible you just don't give two cahoots and daddy's landrover helps you to feel just a tad more confident about your rose-tinted future? Maybe you won the lottery last week and like me, you're not going to spend any of your loot on any politics of any sort. Maybe you have a Volvo or a Lambourghini?
Perhaps you can't really trust anyone, not even your own kids, let alone your spouse or your invalid parents. Maybe you live in some historical sphere of loathing and despise everything around you? Perhaps you just know that being human is better than being political? Maybe you are Dutch and you know we don't need a government?
Without considering trust, maybe you should know that even though we don't need a government, we are still better guided and defended by Salmond, Sturgeon, etc than any of the other waifs and strays that befuddle us through the media.
You have good point on who make up the SNP because there are those that formed their expertise through reading Marx, Keynes, Smith, history, geography, social sciences and also those who have privileged and underprivileged backgrounds, the stern, the humourous, the austere, the peely wallies, the darker skinned, the religious respecters, the athiests, the abstainers, etc. Just like any community in Scotland, the SNP consists of a wide spectrum of open-minded and I may add, open-hearted people. That's really why it is so good, because it simply represents us, the way we are.
Unlike most of the political groupings, there is no hidden agenda, to make the rich richer and keep the uneducated as they are=tories. To defend the poorest and redistribute from the wealthiest=communist. To represent the working people's wishes through social debate and reform=Labour(we know they are wolves in sheeps clothing). To set a balance of growt
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eck788,

Leven 20/03/2010 22:55:12
#462 Jimmy

"Yer heeds oot the windie" post 447 referred to post 65.
468

eck788,

Leven 20/03/2010 22:56:40
"Sorry Jimmy" it was ed everywhere.
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Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 22:58:22
Glad to hear that the electoral Commission have offered a full and frank apology to the SNP because it wrote with bias to the Tories (of all parties) and supported their mudslinging false accusations against the SNP, before the commission had even began it's investigations into financial irregularities or even contacted the SNP.

Was it not the Tories who were selling of council houses for a penny each but only to their friends, not the inhabitants. And did the commission not fail to act on the Zanu-Labour election fixing crimes in Glenrothes? Proof positive it s time for the bent Electoral Commission to be dismantled and a new one setup which is run by Scots for Scots In Scotland rather than simply to protect the security and diktat of the undemocratic and corrupt YooKay.
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Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 23:00:57
#482 eck788 Leven 20/03/2010 22:56:40 wrote;
"Sorry Jimmy" it was ed everywhere.
___________________________

Just keep posting Eck, you are doing fine!
471

Ed's everywhere,

20/03/2010 23:07:27
#473,Cynicus. No, she's popped in with a useful term, dhimmi. I thought it was an acronym for 'Did His Impaired Mother Mastubate Incessantly' but it means protected, cared for in a custodial sense, responsible and its origins are from muslim society. So, there's another useful effect from reading 'Anstruther Kitesplash'. A dhimmi is a person who is looked after. Shame the planet isn't dhimmied, eh?
472

eck788,

Leven 20/03/2010 23:09:10
#467

There is no call for nor likelihood of there ever being a written UK constitution....In a newly formed independent Scotland a written constitution would be an imperative.

To convince a majority of scots,on the need for independence. A written constitution must come first.

I feel that a very large number of voters south of us would welcome the offer of a written constitution. To replace the present, outdated and Party controlled system
473

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land of Green Ginger. 20/03/2010 23:12:48
It i good to see here are no Scottish Defence League unionist marches today as they are all fighting under the racist banner of the EDL/British National Front in Bolton.

On Topic;
In a letter to the BBC, First Minister Alex Salmond and Plaid Cymru leader Ieuan Wyn Jones said their inclusion would be "proportionate and fair".
They also called for an additional debate to be held in either Scotland or Wales.
How can any bigot unionist troll rag argue with that even though this one preferred to omit these facts? Poor Form, unionist rag.
474

GenePoolDebtCrises,

20/03/2010 23:41:30
re440 frank

Just back from the pub and the political gamblers anon gathering!
I think that 14 or more would be a stretch for the SNP for reasons I have already suggested! If I can get some reasonable odds on 10 to 14 then I would be inclined to put some money on that! Only because I think the Lib Dim vote has gone! You know how hard it is to knock off Labour MPs from thier perch!
It seems though that Kellner is reporting that Tories have had to all but give up on Scotland and that 3 is the max they can hope for here! 4 is looking like a stretch for them but again if there are decent odds offered then I will have a punt on 4!
475

Ed's everywhere,

21/03/2010 00:46:10
So, Scotland beat the Irish in a rugby game and the French might rue le boef tomorrow. There's something just a wee bit honest about the French and rugby, unlike the fakers in the south of England. And the Saints are coming up to sunnyside to give the scum a scunnering. What more can be made of the Active Nation Cup final? There're a few gallas things to get stymied over this spring Sunday.
Anyone found the winnig sequnce on Euromillions? How's about selling some sound Brown ale on the mainland? Maybe our yellow and purple flowering plots are better than just ethanol for fuelling another generation in centrally heated flats.
Who's got a flex on pollsters and tollsters?
We might be discussing the date of the death of monarchy in Britain. Or just how many royal families we can entice to enjoy their family summers together in our beautiful Gaeltacht? The Dutch and the Scandinavian tourists might spend more than the pitiful English. We could have a few royals every year, just as long as they spend a bit more every year.

Written constitution are what avery nation should seek. I think it is a the solid foundation, even if it could be more of a guiding foundation stone than a constantly evolving political landscape. There is good reason for it and we could write a European constitution while we're at it.

I think we should be writing a new tax system while we're at it, with some limiting factors on either end, perhaps with encouraging more intenational investment with the perspective that we could be a kind of free trading area, without heavily reduced tax bands on what we want, thus bringing in more of what we need most. For example, we could have higher tax, or just not accept any nuclear sh*te, and we could have no tax on petrochemicls with greater fine capabilities for poor health&safety standards and stronger legal requirements on any pollutant effuse.

I think both solid foundation stone of a constitution and a meritocratic fiscal system to encourage str
476

eck788,

Leven 21/03/2010 01:01:57
Has Ed everywhere, gone ed somewhere else, or is he just "ed all over the place."
477

Ed's everywhere,

21/03/2010 01:20:34
Sassy C, you are full of it, bullsh*t or is just the p*ss. You got back in early on a Satdi night. We can debate Scottishness forever but you will find that as we continue modernising, almost anyone on the planet can be Scottish, just by being in Scotland they are Scottish and the Scottish National HEalth System will be ready to care for them in just the same way any other person. Now, providing there is not a racist paramedic, or any need for communications, presuming the not true Scot cannot use our Scottish English or Gaelic, or any of the innumerable languages that are spoken by ScottishNHS workers. If the Scottish person is unable to communicate, the natural inclination of any decent Scottish citizen towards another Scottish citizen is to care, help and provide a guiding ability towards the fellow Scottish bod in order to help the greater Scottishness, and we extend our all humane-ness beyond just those in Scotland to our neighbours, who just happen to be fellow European nations, like Norway, England, Wales and Ireland. However, the English accent may indirectly and subconsciously have a negative effect on many of us in many parts, as it also does in Pakistan or India and many more former colonies.

Having lived and worked in India I can assure you that there is a definite negativity towards English persons. When asked, "Are you English?". A swift and strong, "No," with a clear positive identification of your real nationality will nearly always bring a smile to the majority of faces. I found this in Greece with them thinking I was German, "Deutsch?", lots of finger waving and some French, Latin oriented pronunciation and finally "Iona"="Eeona" and the Greeks are happier to know a 'Scoteees' than any other nationality. In India I talked with many tourists from all around Europe, Asia and Africa, with everyone stating that the Indians are extraordinarily friendly and seem to really enjoy practising their English language usage. The few English I talked with com
478

Ed's everywhere,

21/03/2010 01:28:43
The complained of being spat at, sworn at, and even attacked by insects and food poisoned. I found travelling with French, Germans and any other nationality ever so much easier than with the English. Howeve, was better to be alone really.
Anyhow, my point is that we are always seen in a better light than our English neighbours. Mostly because during English colonialism's peaks we worked alongside the locals in engineering projects and most of us know working together is where it is really at unless there's a poor result or something goes wrong. So working together with two tiered Scottishness isnt bad.

I guess the true Scot is that Scot who adopts the person who is Scottish and thus there's a chance of further Scottishness. Seems totally logical that a true Scot is a Scot who makes a Scottish person more of a true Scot than before. I think there are only Scots and Scottish people on the planet. I guess the Scottish are younger and are still learning what it is to be a true Scot.
479

Ed's everywhere,

21/03/2010 01:33:18
British is nothing to do with it. I think we use bris to build houses and walls, so what is brish. It is almost a brush and we use them to sweep floors. What is a true Kelt? And comparing Kelts to true Scots, how are they different?
480

Ed's everywhere,

21/03/2010 01:41:45
Agree with you on that, any person living in Scotland would be mad as a tinroofer on any icy November morning, going to work on the white stuff, to vote for Britain. Mad as cheshire cat to vote anything other than SNP. But is it really that simple. Perhaps we should avoid voting for any westminster elections. Ideally we should simplify it to regional elections, national-Scottish elections and European elections. What is the point in the westminster level?
481

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21/03/2010 02:26:29
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Ed's everywhere,

21/03/2010 02:33:01
Thatcher or Blair is complete madness and so just voting in a westminster election can be tantamount to risking your vote on leaders who may cause genocide. That means we have even more reason to vote against them and even more reason to vote for our self interests, the Scottish way is the SNP path. Are there any others available? I can foresee a Scottish national vote that might direct the SNP more leftwards, more socially sensitive, more towards defending the more vulnerable Scottish persons, but for the time being this stance of minimisiing the expenditure of Scots government and maximising or powers and influence is surely just as good as we can expect considering all other factors surrounding this westminster election.
483

,

21/03/2010 09:17:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
484

Ginger Nuts,

21/03/2010 19:44:36
When Salmond FAILS to get 20 MP's elected, and most likely FAILS to hold the current 7 MP's, can we expect His Chubbiness to tender his resignation?
485

Ginger Nuts,

21/03/2010 19:46:45
500 Thatcher? Blair? I wasn't aware that either of those two politicians would be running for Prime Minister.

Just how long have you been out of Scotland? Or maybe and more likely, you've never actually been there.
486

Ginger Nuts,

21/03/2010 19:51:59
Ed's everywhere, I've tried reading your postings, but your broken English is disturbing. Speaking of the word 'English', your racist attacks on our nearest neighbours are just not on. I hope the moderator takes swift action over your postings.
487

GMKOMD1961,

offshore 22/03/2010 13:23:55
I would like old fish face to answer some questions about the Hollie Grieg case before he fluffs up his pillow anymore.

Scotlands Shame? Google Hollie Grieg!

 

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