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Bishops braced for a battle

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Published Date: 16 July 2008
As the 2008 Lambeth Conference of Anglican bishops gets under way, Ian Swanson looks at the church's showdown over homosexuality.
TEN years ago Richard Holloway was left angry and appalled by the hard-line stance adopted by fellow church leaders against gays.

The 1998 Lambeth Conference of Anglican bishops from around the world voted by 526 to 70 to declare homosexual relationships incompatible with the Bible. They also upheld a ban on the ordination of gay priests and the blessing of same-sex marriages.

The then Bishop of Edinburgh said he had been amazed by the "intensity and brutality" of the event. It had felt like "being in the middle of a lynching".

Soon afterwards he announced he was giving up his attempt to become a member of the new Scottish Parliament so he could concentrate on fighting intolerance and fundamentalism in the church.

Bishop Holloway has now retired from church leadership, but the Lambeth Conference, which only meets once a decade, is assembling again and the issue of homosexuality will again be a hot topic.

"I'm glad I'm not there," says Bishop Holloway.

The 17-day gathering, which begins today in Canterbury, has been billed as another step towards schism, a staging post in the disintegration of the worldwide Anglican communion, which includes the Scottish Episcopal Church and claims 80 million followers in 164 countries around the globe.

More than 200 of the 880 invited bishops are boycotting it in protest at the presence of pro-gay bishops.

Many of them attended last month's Global Anglican Futures Conference in Jerusalem, an alternative gathering which complained of a liberal "re-writing" of the Bible.

Meanwhile, the openly gay American bishop, Gene Robinson, whose appointment five years ago sparked the crisis over sexuality, plans to turn up even though he has not been invited.

Bishop Robinson, who was heckled when he preached in London at the weekend, is due in Edinburgh immediately after the Lambeth Conference for several events at the Festival of Spirituality.

The conference will be a testing time for Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, who is on the liberal wing of the church but has devoted himself to trying to hold the church together. Some have accused him of seeking consensus where there is none.

He seems to have disappointed radicals while failing to satisfy traditionalists, but Bishop Holloway has a strong respect for the archbishop. "Rowan is a liberal, warm-hearted man," he says. "There is something very honourable about what he is doing. He has decided to park his own private convictions and work to preserve the unity of the institution.

"It is a very self-sacrificing thing to do and it has won him a lot of respect as well as criticism. My hunch is the good guys will rally round and do what they can to bolster him up."

Bishop Holloway, who was Bishop of Edinburgh for 14 years and Primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church for eight, attended the last two Lambeth conferences.

He says: "Each Lambeth I have been at, the press has predicted the dissolution of the Anglican communion. In 1988 it was over the ordination of women, but we found a way of living with that. In 1998 they did less well with the gay thing. I suspect this time they will get through again.

"I don't imagine the really rabid ones staying away will be particularly missed – and if they go off and decide to do something on their own, that's up to them, but it's a bit like a boy taking his ball off the football pitch."

The Scottish Episcopal Church takes a fairly relaxed view on the gay issue – and the threat of schism. A 2005 statement by the bishops, which still stands, acknowledged a "scepticism" in Scotland about the importance of the Anglican communion and acknowledged a "significant diversity of view" on gay bishops and blessing same-sex unions.

However, it said: "The Scottish Episcopal Church has never regarded the fact that someone was in a close relationship with a member of the same sex as in itself constituting a bar to the exercise of an ordained ministry."

It also said adopting a formal liturgy for same-sex unions would be "premature" but seemed to suggest informal blessings could be acceptable.

The current Bishop of Edinburgh, Brian Smith, who is at the Lambeth Conference, says he is optimistic about the gathering, but adds: "I may find that optimism dashed."

He says: "The potential for division is clearly there. I hope with two and a half weeks together, a bit of patience and looking at the complexity of the issue, there may be a healing of some of the divisions, many of which arise from misunderstanding."

Bishop Holloway also takes an optimistic line, but does not think there has been a change for the better in the attitude of hard-liners since 1998. He calls the last Lambeth Conference "a hatefest".

"I still have enormous contempt, not so much for their point of view as the way they have expressed it, in ugly, violent language."

He was particularly appalled by the comments of Peter Akinola, Archbishop of Abuja in Nigeria, and a leading figure on conservative wing.

"He doesn't say just he disagrees with gay people, he insults them and likens them to animals. You can disagree with people and still have a respect for each other.

"But if he's not there, then maybe that will be missing this time."


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 16 July 2008 9:37 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Gay and Lesbian issues
 
1

Neil McCart,

Cheltenham 16/07/2008 11:54:32
To see adults who believe in the supernatural arguing about who can and who cannot officiate at their superstitious rituals is quite amusing. Perhaps they should ponder the fact that "All gods from time immemorial are fantasies created by people for the comfort of people, and in an attempt to explain the seemingly inexplicable."
2

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 16/07/2008 11:56:43
Now it may have to be "brace yourself Bishop".
3

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 12:35:45
#1 I suppose you can prove that fact?

Please don't make sweeping statements with no basis in analysis, and I don't care if you have an anecdotal quote to back it up.

#2 Awesome

#3 Have you asked them what they believe? Not every Christian be they Catholic or otherwise believes in a literal creation story.

All that I ask is that you know what your prattling about before you post.
4

Feral Youth who make Gorgie Tony's life hell!,

16/07/2008 12:40:58
#4 Watch the online movie "Zeitgeist" on google video and let me know what you think then.
5

Logie Almond,

16/07/2008 13:17:04
For a gay person to want to be a bishop in a church is like a Jew wanting to be a gauleiter in the Nazi Party.
6

Boy Wonder,

16/07/2008 13:26:12
I suspect we'll witness quite a lot of bishop-bashing as the Lambeth Conference proceeds!
7

Foresight,

By the Water of Leith 16/07/2008 13:36:41

I am happy to let the anglicans get on with bashing each other but I think the time has come to disestablish the Church of England. The biblical picture of being "neither hot nor cold" seems an apt description of their present theological position. It is a truism that if you aim at nothing you are sure to hit it !!
8

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

16/07/2008 13:36:52
For a bunch of people who claim to dislike gays so much, they sure like dressing up.
9

John Knox furr First Meenister,

High St, Embra 16/07/2008 13:42:35
The abomination of it all ! I don't know what's worse: sodomists or bishops. And I gather these days that some bishops are sodomists. These Anglicans are asking for it if you ask me. Oooerrr missus!
10

tomias,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 13:52:08
This form of belief is egotistical introspection- no one else counts- except us yins- so there.
In Scotchland they are episcopalians and have their own h.q.All of a sudden homosexuals are in the open air- all been there in droves before, now they appear to matter; why?
11

Edward,

16/07/2008 13:58:23
Call me a cynic, but why is this story in the 'Politics' section?
Surely its a 'UK' story
12

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 13:58:40
That's the problem when you believe in rubbish and allow it to dominate your decision making... You can't get to grips with real world issues any more.

Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too

-- John Lennon
13

James (1),

16/07/2008 14:02:06
#11 go to where? Anyway people believe in all sorts of things. God exists. Gays are just normal people. If you really try you can believe anything.
14

James (1),

16/07/2008 14:04:07
#14 I am the walrus - John Lennon.
Pearls of wisdom!
15

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 14:07:17
#16:

Zabberdack
Kalla Ka Kora Kakkallakack

-- Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Titch

16

steve 1511,

aberdeen 16/07/2008 14:28:00
men who dress up in funny nightdresses are not to be trusted
17

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 14:39:15
#19 That isn't really the issue, the fact of the matter is a lot of Christians don't believe in a literal Creation story but you just assumed they all did, and then typed it.

I'm not trying to justify the entirity of Christian theology to you, if you're looking for that go and get an academicaly argued book or twenty on the subject, you might need a selection of atheistic or theistic counterpoints too, read them all then come to your own conclusions. Just don't make sweeping statements about things you don't appear to know much about.
18

James (1),

16/07/2008 14:51:34
#22 you have missed the whole point of the Evening News website! It allows the dim and dimmer to say what they struggle to think.
Kind of like that intellectual tv show "Catchphrase"
Say what you see!
Me am dead good at this phing!
19

James (1),

16/07/2008 14:53:59
#23 Fairies come in all shape and sizes. They tend to like being called gay however.

Oh, that's me going to get taken off now and it's your fault!
20

Broughton Resident,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 15:00:33
This is now getting to be such a bore - who cares if they want or don't want gay bishops? Get a life!
21

Foresight,

By the Water of Leith 16/07/2008 15:06:01

Many of those above seem to forget the biblical definition of faith as "the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen". Those with faith draw comfort from it so why should others want to deny them such solace.
22

I love to eat Sellotape,

16/07/2008 15:19:16
John Lennon also said:

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can

Which, to me, sounds like no fuel-swilling vroom-vrooms for people with disproportionately small appendages.

Or trouser presses, dammit.
23

Duncan in Edinburgh,

16/07/2008 15:27:05
Nothing to kill or die for
Except Brotherhood of Man
24

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 15:45:28
#31 See my earlier comment

#24 Surely not someone questioning the integrity of the EEN board, The flying Spaghetti Monster shall strike you down in righteous fury!
25

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 15:57:39
#33 Despite the fact that I cannot prove it I'm an aflyingspaghettimonsterist, I realise that is a belief statement and I'm confortable with that.

As a brief aside though I am Llamistic, and believe strongly that a great Llama will one day lead us to the promised land. Ahh there will be much rejoicing in those days, there will be rivers of milk and honey, no-one will make a sweeping statement on the EEN boards....
26

James (1),

16/07/2008 16:09:02
#34 Despite the fact that I cannot prove it, I am told gravity exists. Now personally I have never seen gravity. So, does it really exist? God knows, but then again I have never seen God. So, does he really exist?

Did you hear that? He said God was a he! Get PC man, God is a woman now!
27

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 16:15:34
Mario:

"Jesus die for YOUR sins Fuelhead"

How can he have? I've never known anyone called Jesus... And I don't "sin".

Many religions are only concerned with introducing guilt into the individual so that the "authorities" have a lever by which to control the masses.

All this rubbish about heaven and hell, fire and brimstone proves it.

Maybe someone (or a few people) like Jesus did exist? Maybe they involved themselves in various things which with a bit of poetic licence and LOTS of hearsay could be called "miracles"? Maybe events happened in times gone by that have rational explanations but have been bigged up and taken out of context? There is some evidence to suggest there has.

Everyone KNOWS that the story about god creating the world in six days is a load of rubbish, so how are we supposed to believe anything else along those lines?

Almost every single thing (including the Turin Shroud) prophesised by religion and which has been put to the test by science has been proven to be either fake, or to have a rational explanation. If you want to carry on believing it, fine. But please remember that it will distort your thinking.
28

S'me,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 16:35:37
If only there were more people like Richard Holloway in the church and politics. He has such simple common sense and a genuine love of humanity.
29

James (1),

16/07/2008 17:20:28
#41 He does love his fellow man!
30

Jed Smith,

Moscow 16/07/2008 17:28:31
B.A. Baracus got set free while poor wee Jesus got nailed to a wooden cross. Hardly fair is it.

"I ain't gettin nailed to no damn cross, fool"

If these pious twits don't ordain women, how comes they all dress like women?
31

Jed Smith,

Moscow 16/07/2008 17:30:59
We want cake and fine wine. we want the finest wine available to humanity and we want it here and we want it now.

"Call the police Mrs Blennerhassett£"
32

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

, Newington Pun Factory 16/07/2008 18:25:41
If they ban gay bishops from speaking, isn't that censership?
33

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

, Newington Pun Factory 16/07/2008 18:27:32
Edward wonders: "why is this story in the 'Politics' section? Surely its a 'UK' story"

I think you'll find Edward, that it's a fairy story.
34

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

16/07/2008 18:33:31
Mario ponders the Big Question:

"either this is a supernatural creator or theres not."

It's more subtle than that: There could be a supernatural creator who has more to do running an entire universe than worry about which semi-smart chimp put what protruberance in which orifice of another.

On the other hand, it could be a very an@l supernatural creator with an obsessive-compulsive disorder centred on precisely this aspect of the universe.

See: theology is tricky.
35

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

16/07/2008 18:39:20
James(1) has existential angst:

"Despite the fact that I cannot prove it, I am told gravity exists. Now personally I have never seen gravity. So, does it really exist?"

Technically it's all down to relatavistic bending of space-time.

But try telling that to the kids of today and they won't believe you.
36

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

16/07/2008 18:41:11
When The Pope banished Limbo, where did it go?

That's a tricky one eh?
37

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

16/07/2008 18:45:29
Mario offers consolation:

"What happens when you die. You die basically, you rot and your molecules go off to be other things. So in some ways, you do live forever."

But Fernando intercepts:

In fact even the very molecules and atoms of which we are composed will someday disintegrate into their component parts and form atoms and molecules no more. The universe will die a cold, prolonged and lonely death as it expands forever into nothingness.

Mind, that's a while yet...
38

Ian down under,

Kawerau 16/07/2008 22:03:22
Looks like it's time for theat time honoured religious event , the schism.
It started with worshipping the sun and the moon. Then it got a hierarchy with positions of privelege and they called it Judaism. Then this bloke came along with some other ideas and some people 400 years later decided to make him an even better god so we got Christianity and they fought against the Jews, then there was another bloke who had other ideas and he set up Islam and they fought with the Jews and the Christians. Then King Henry VIII of England, Martin Luther and John Knox threw their ideas in and they all schsimed and fought the catholics and often each other while still hating the jews and moslems. Then a chill wind blew down from the arctic and metamorphosed into the Wee Frees and they fought and argued with everybody. Until they were seen as too catholic and we got the wee wee frees. While all this was going on the jews split into groups and fought one another, the moslems did the same. The orangemen fought the catholics in Ireland and on and on it goes.\
In the esteemed words of Judaism, Catholicism, Islam, Presbyterianism, Anglicanism, et al Peace be with you. God is Love, and if you don't agree we'll nuke you.
39

James (1),

16/07/2008 22:24:53
Look there is no room at the inn. 100 people surveyed said no we dont want your kind. Well actually 526 to 70 said we don't want your kind. I can see where you are coming from, its not exactly unanimous but almost 50/50 if you use gay maths.
Until the make being homosexual compulsory I think they are going to have to leave it. Not quietly you understand as any person will tell you, gays are anything but quiet.
40

Kipling,

@the DoomRay online library 16/07/2008 22:53:40
Footnote from 'The Construction of Homosexuality' by David F. Greenberg. p.100, reads: "Homosexuality is considered an offense in the Arthashastra (Treatise on Material Gain) 3.17, 4.13, a text dated to the fourth century BC & the Yajnavalkya (2.293) a lawbook from the fourth to fifth centuries AD According to the Baudhayana Dharmasutra (3.7.2), placed by some scholars at 300-100 BC a homosexual act is as heinous as killing a Brahmin. The highly influential Manusmrti (Laws of Manu) 11.175, c. 185-149 BC makes homosexuality a source of ritual pollution to Brahmins and mandates purification through ritual imemrsion. The Vishnusmrti 37.5 (a work deirved in part from the Manusmrti), says that a man could lose his caste for engaging in it". Although a brief look at this chapter on the Google page suggests male transvestism was very common and not frowned upon.

Ie, it's not just an issue for the Christian religion.

My experience of homosexuals has been of a freemasonry type clique of individuals who in the end have to exclude others who are not on offer to them. Many consider the body of the opposite sex, let alone intercourse with it, repulsive, a view expressed in explicit negative terms which they are unlikely to publicise outside their group. So the Nigerian bishop isn't being unusual in his revulsion.

The Church is being swayed by contemporary social attitudes of tolerance promoted very probably by atheists and non-Church goers. Has anyone seen Derek Jarman & Paul Humfress's film 'Sebastiane' (1976, depicting the martyrdom of St. Sebastian)? A different kind of battle ground.
41

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

16/07/2008 23:03:28
Och who geeza fùkc...loada aul shoite the lot o' it.....
42

Derek Williams,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 01:33:46
Good luck to them! If they fail to reach the 'hearts and minds', there is always the Metropolitan Community Church, now a worldwide organisation, including an Edinburgh parish, that will minister to those who have been kicked out of other Christian churches because of their homosexual orientation.
43

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 09:37:43
#37 You can prove that, pick something up, now drop it. Et Voila you can see the direct effect of gravity, that my good man, is Science!
44

James (1),

17/07/2008 10:22:21
#56 I believe in Science it's the omnipresence gravity I have my doubts about. Meant to be there all the time but is it? mmmmh!
Also my wife wants a word with you as I have now broken her hairdrier carrying out your experiment!
45

Jenny MacArthur,

17/07/2008 10:43:07
Oh, the joy of watching hate-filled megapixie worshippers battling with warm and cuddly megapixie-worshippers. Christians are such nutters!!
46

James (1),

17/07/2008 11:25:49
#58 I take you are the hate filled atheist. Perhaps single and dislike men as well?
47

Cheradenine,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 11:31:08
#57 Oh it's probably not omnipresent, you can be far enough away from something so it doesn't effect you, and between planetary bodies that are close together you get cool things called lagrange points where it pulls equally in both directions so effectively doesn't exist at all.

I also have a tendancy to "lift" when I sleep, so I've had my suspicions for a while, it might have more to do with blood flow though.
48

wayne bijlyeerheid,

17/07/2008 12:08:26
"Monty Python at prayer"
Is there a more contrived, artificial, religious denomination than the Anglicans? A state funded religion that wouldn't exist if an absolute monarch hadn't wanted a divorce.
Is there another body with such an inverse rate of self importance to real world relevance?
All modern day Scots, including RCs, should give thanks to the Covenanters for standing up to, and fighting against, the bloodthirsty Archbishop Laud and his dictarorial C of E cronies when they tried to impose their ludicrous superstitious beliefs and rituals by force on Scotland.
49

,

18/07/2008 00:38:33
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