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3% pay rise demanded by council workers is branded 'outrageous'

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Published Date: 26 November 2009
SCOTTISH ministers were last night under pressure to intervene early in a pay row between councils and their employees as the two sides braced themselves for a protracted dispute.
A pay claim submitted by unions yesterday is for a 3 per cent or £600 rise – whichever is greater – and a minimum pay rate of £7 an hour.

Senior council figures branded the claim "outrageous" in the current economic climate.

Members of
the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (Cosla) have been pushing for a pay freeze of up to five years to help cope with the increasing strain on council finances.

The entrenched positions mean industrial action – including strikes causing a massive disruption to services – could take place early next year if no agreement can be found on the payment of Scotland's 150,000 council employees.

Dougie Black, Unison's lead negotiator, said: "This claim is simply an attempt by our members to maintain their standard of living in the teeth of what is predicted to be increasing inflationary pressures.

"Our members in Scotland's local councils have delivered around £200 million worth of efficiency savings, with a loss of around 7,000 jobs. It is only fair councils should share these efficiency savings with staff as well as council tax payers."

Cosla insisted it would consult its members before making a formal response. But Michael Cook, the body's strategic human resource management spokesman, warned: "Local government and the public sector more generally are facing a future financial and economic climate which will present unprecedented challenges.

"These challenges will require a careful balance between pay restraint and affordability."

Privately, many council leaders are seething about the pay claim, made at a time when their budgets are decreasing in real terms because of efficiency savings needed to help address the UK's recession debt of more than £1 trillion.

One senior councillor, who asked not to be named, said: "The fact the unions have made such an outrageous claim will only harden the resolve of many council leaders to press for a pay freeze."

Last night, opposition parties called on finance secretary John Swinney to step in.

Labour's local government spokesman Michael McMahon said: "SNP ministers should not stand on the sidelines and wash their hands of this."

Scottish Lib Dem leader Tavish Scott added: "The finance secretary needs to get around the table early to head off any threat of industrial action."

But Mr Swinney looks set to resist calls to get involved as he did last year when local government staff held two one-day strikes.

A Scottish Government spokesman said: "It is the responsibility of councils through Cosla and the unions to reach an agreement."

Susie Squire, of the Taxpayers, Alliance, said: "This claim shows how out of touch they are with what is happening with the rest of the economy."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 November 2009 10:28 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 26/11/2009 01:13:53

Only 3% Branded as 'outrageous', So what about our MP's expenses?, I am dammed sure it amounts to more.
2

!Ya basta!,

26/11/2009 01:30:45
Exactly Charles. It's socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor.

On the lead story on the alcohol pricing law on which we are not allowed to comment for some reason its a similar situation.

That is, Big Business 10 vs. Peoples Health 0 and as usual, the politicians are on the side of big business.

But well done to the SNP for at least trying to do something about our national addiction and source of much ridicule and hilarity overseas.
3

Ewan Randall,

26/11/2009 01:31:34
When there is a recession should all wage rises not be in line with inflation?
4

Douglas,

Bathgate 26/11/2009 01:47:56
Aye Ewan, possibly, as long as that applies across the board. No exceptions for say senior management with onerous responsibilities that merit a special case.
You know, those "best people" we hear so much about.
5

Alice Cooper,

26/11/2009 04:15:12
why is broon going to look at min prices for england,yet his scottish lackies are whining about it being put into law in scotland
once more scare stories score hits ie GARL,and their fav we would all suffer from being on our own
DUH we are suffering now ya tumshie heided buffoons
the wee gray man is flexing his schoolboy sized muscles,and threatning to vote down the budget for next year unless GARL is put back on
ooohh wee didums throwing the dummy out
ok salmond should just say ok youve voted it down,lets just have a new election,be interesting to see labour faces,as some will lose out for holyrood,one byelection victory and now its the world they want to take on
6

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 26/11/2009 05:04:09
We pay Councils to clean the streets, tend the parks, run swimming baths and sporting facilities. And these jobs worth doing are worth paying the employees a decent living wage! We don't want, we don't need these pompous new breed of [expletive deleted] CEOs with their sex figure salaries, expense claims, flash motors and all the mindblowing incompetence that goes with it. Have we the gumption to elect majority SNP goverment to get rid of these clukkers? Turn the fire hoses on 'em!
7

Anonym,

26/11/2009 05:57:06
#6 Yok

I guess a, "sex figure salary", is one which endows the earner with extra pulling power due to being minted.

Wish I had one of those :)
8

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 26/11/2009 06:26:24
We are this endangered species called scottish shipbuilders. Salary -- fit's that? and if we're doing it for love; the only love we get is from the wee bristle-haired bitch who is a pocket rocket and sudden death for the bunny people. That song o Art Garfunkel comes to mind but fortunately I've forgotten its title this time in the morning.

What you need is Hard Headed Woman by Wanda Jackson and allyouse can get it here:

www.epochzine.net/

Was that Scotty Moore on guitar and Red Rodney on trumpet? What a fabulous track. Biblical studies'll never be the same again.
9

Anton,

Porto Sant'Elpidio 26/11/2009 06:52:58
#7, I get 25,436.85 Euros a year, after taxes. Doesn't it look like a sex figure? No? Then divide it by 365... :-)

10

Angoos,

Baku, Azerbaijan 26/11/2009 06:54:08
#1 Chuckles

MP's expenses are not the issue here.

Once again the Unions are holding local councils to ransom over pay demands.
In the end it's the "punter in the street" that will lose out if these eejits go on strike.
Why is it that the local authorities are the only places where a "closed shop" still exists ?
From personal experience Unions are a waste of time. The guys that run them are only out for themselves, they don't give a monkey's about the rank and file members.
11

Pocket Dictionary,

26/11/2009 07:26:29
Pay claims are smoke and mirrors. Like all negotiations you aim high knowing full well you will get less. What's actually being negotiated here is 0% (from employers + a possible pay freeze) up to 3% (union claim).

Per usual there will be a mid way agreement achieved by threats of redundancies on one side and strikes from the other. The end result is more likely to be between 1% - 2% forr two - three years instead of a 3% one year agreement.

As a side issue: managers in Fife Council are letting slip to staff there are currently enough vacancies in private sector residential care that would allow them to close all their care homes for older people. 300 + older people transfered to the private sector. Which would make a massive saving for the council budget.
12

fife runner,

26/11/2009 07:32:15
#6 what about private sector workers like tanker drivers and train drivers holding the public to ransom. do not forget private sector pay awards have overtaken public sector.
13

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 26/11/2009 08:17:48
Council workers are uniformly useless and the dregs that are unemployable in the private sector. There should be a wholesale cull of 50% of them, the rest should be paid solely based on performance and their pensions should be slashed.

If they don't like their new conditions, the remaining staff should also be sacked; they are easily replaceable.
14

Guy Wersh,

26/11/2009 08:21:13
I just had to text Radio Scotland. Iain Gray was allowed to say that he was in favour of retaining money from alcohol sales for the public purse to go towards education etc. Surely that's him talking about a tax on alcohol which is a retained power.
How very Glancampbelly.
15

Filosofo,

Kirkcaldy 26/11/2009 08:37:20
#10 - Council are not a closed shop.

Closed shops do not exist anywhere. They are now illegal in Britain.

Councils did impose a pay freeze a few years ago and the unions agreed for one year. Unfortunately it means council workers are now forever one step behind, having relinquished one year's pay rise
16

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 26/11/2009 08:49:31
#13 It's lie but not as we know it

Yes. There's no bargaining position here except pull you socks or the sackings begin. Would we notice the difference? In visible bin terms say yes, but why do we have 1 public sector worker in Scotland for every 3 in the private sector who pay for this massive overhead? A good culling is overdue.
17

Mikey,

Carstairs Junction 26/11/2009 09:12:49
Nos. 13&16. I wondered how long it would be before the ignorant NEDS and their stolen computers got on line!
18

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 26/11/2009 09:16:32
Cheer up Mikey you're pretty close to a good institution that will look after you, wipe up the dribble etc.
19

Al Ghaf,

26/11/2009 09:32:02
#15

"Closed shops do not exist anywhere"

Are you sure about that? Yes it is illegal, but cronyism and nepotism are alive and well.
20

Buckfastleigh,

26/11/2009 09:33:29
While the "Taxpayers Alliance" so called is given media space (and they are habitually writing total rubbish on their web site) I hear no credible voice to explain to the Local Government Workers why it is apparently the intention of their employers to use them to subsidize the massive UK public debt not of their (or the public in general) making.

Who is not fearful of potential inflation around the corner?

A freeze for five years? My plumber is ready to raise his prices for his work; but why should the public expect the social worker (or trading standards or many thousands of lowly paid workers in the "cendrelle" of public service) have to suffer more than our friendly and cuddly *BANKERS?

There are good reasons for getting their undoubted expertise in cleansing money, quantitative easing, laundering assets and recycling junk bonds instead of the humble council workers helping the real needs of people in our local communities.

They* helped make the mess creation; and they should be made to clean up now. Taxpayers beware!
21

Ben Thehoose,

26/11/2009 09:38:46
If the pay isn't enough these 'workers' should seek jobs elsewhere.
22

Filosofo,

Kirkcaldy 26/11/2009 09:56:09
#19- I'm as sure as I can be. There are no closed shops in Fife Council, which is the 3rd largest in Scotland, for sure.
Nowadays, HR does all the recruitment, and union membership is never mentioned.
Cronyism and neoptism exist equally in proivate sector, but, I repeat:
There are no closed shops in councils
23

noswod,

Honestas 26/11/2009 10:00:09
Mair heed in the sand thinking frae part O the Scottish dependency establishment. A 3% pay increase when the countrys bust ?? Crazy man theres nay mair money its aw been spent on free car parking, free University Places frae the Middle and Upper Classes, free care frae the old folk, free perscriptions, free bridges over the Forth for CO2 pumping middle class owners of cheap property in Fife . Now public sector workers hae tae pay frae aw this by takin a pay cut. When Ozzie and Dave get hold of the Uk's cash it will be a 30% pay cut lads and free pensions will be binned. SNP = Still No Policies for the Economic and Social regeneration of Scotland beyond flag waving.
24

thinking,

Scotland 26/11/2009 10:06:36
This is downright stupidity by Union Leaders (who are on a cushy number)
It's the private sector who bring in money but the public sector who spend it.
While the private sector are losing their jobs,having pay freezes or pay cuts why should the public sector be increasing in numbers and seeking pay rises?
25

The Tin Man,

26/11/2009 10:29:11
24 Observer,, Glasgow 26/11/2009 10:06:23

"I see no need for public sector workers to volunteer for a pay cut to bail the country out of a situation that they didn't cause."

That is a long-running fundamental flaw in State-sector-worker thinking. When someone is employed by the State (or a company), pay rises are very much connected to the income of the State (or the company). Arguing that the two things are entirely separate, as you have done, makes no sense.
26

Incandescent,

26/11/2009 10:31:43
#23 noswood

Oh dear.
27

Corky,

26/11/2009 10:36:38
Observer,

On average Public sector workers are already paid about 14% more than their private sector equivalents (I know it's difficult to compare many jobs across sectors because tehy simply don't exist) employment conditions are frequently better in the public sector with greater job flexibility and a lower gap in earnings by gender. Also takle into account the massive differential in pensions - where private sector employees can expect a fraction of the pension of their counterparts if they have a pension (only 36% of private sector employees have a complany pension).

Observer - do I need to go on? Absence rates in the public sector are higher, job security is higher, they retire earlier etc etc etc.

Private sector workers earn the money that pays for all this and they are getting rightly peed off when many private companies are offer pay freezes, cuts and short-time working just to keep their jobs - and yet the public sector want an inflation plus rise.

Your statement about the private sector causing this is rubbish. Most private sector companies are as much victims of poor risk management in banking as anyone else.
28

Corky,

26/11/2009 10:41:21
Observer - about 50% of all tax revenue goes on wages - fag packet calculation shows a 3% rise in wages = a 1.5% rise in tax.

Actually the proportion for the poor private sector workers is more, because essentially the whole concept of public sector workers paying tax is daft - it's just recycling the money.

How about doing away with income tax for all public sector workers? Just pay them the equivalent amount less and get rid of 20% of the tax collectors - big savings all round!
29

Corky,

26/11/2009 10:52:38
Observer - I have had to take a pay cut due to circumstances beyond my control.

It is absolute nonsense to say that ANYONE in the country should be insulated just because of a 'it wisnae me, it wis yon big boy' mentality.
30

The Tin Man,

26/11/2009 10:58:19
30 Eh? I don't think that the contracts of employment issued to private employees said that their wages would be tagged to the economic performance of the company.

The pay levels of the great majority of people throughout the world is based in circumstances beyond their control.

The reality of the matter is pay vs. redundancies. You are arguing in favour of redundancies. That's your point of view, but I think it makes more sense to retain employees under a pay freeze.

Are you arguing against the council tax freeze, as well?
31

thinking,

Scotland 26/11/2009 11:00:43
#26 Observer
'they are unlikely to volunteer for a pay cut when they see the people who caused this crisis in the private sector to continue reaping rich rewards for their failure.'
A very, very small minority of the private sector reap rich rewards. The vast majority have poorer incomes, work conditions and pensions than the bloated public sector. The private sector rarely have the chance to vote on a pay cut as the economic climate dictates their pay levels in the main. Many take pay cuts just to keep working.
32

Pa broon,

Edinburgh 26/11/2009 11:08:16
As someone said earlier it's a vicious circle. Public sector gets a pay raise and the council passes that on by way of increased taxes. Low and behold some small business does the math and cuts his costs to pay for it. Invariably another private sector job is lost. It's not rocket science. The chance of a small company raising prices in this recession to cover the shortfall is debateable. It’s not as if any of us have the choice of not paying the tax as we would be prosecuted. At least in the private sector if you don’t like the service you can walk away!
33

Mc Max ,

26/11/2009 11:09:42
Labour's local government spokesman Michael McMahon said: "SNP ministers should not stand on the sidelines and wash their hands of this."

Another labour mouth peice crawls from under his stone.
34

Jobless recovery,

26/11/2009 11:16:41
You need to vote UKIP so that we can drastically reduce the number of public sector wasters in local government.

Don't give them a pay rise. No. Give them a 3% pay cut instead. That'll teach the little commies.
35

Jobless recovery,

26/11/2009 11:17:24
They are public servants, so it's entirely reasonable for me to call for their pay to be CUT.
36

Corky,

26/11/2009 11:19:17
#38 - don't be stupid - the individuals in the roles are not culpable - it's just taht a a 3% rise is not appropriate just now.
37

The Strategist,

26/11/2009 11:20:46
Almost certainly another ploy the union has set up in cahoots with their Labour pals to try to cause trouble for the SNP..

I'd like to hear what Gray has to say about it.
38

Number 6,

Germany 26/11/2009 11:22:48
Before looking at council employee pay, we should first be getting rid of all the non jobs.

Are we still paying people eg to advise us on what to eat, or people to check if anyone is lighting up in the pub etc etc etc.

Do we still shell out thousands on "equality and diversity officers" ?

Pare the numbers down to what is actually needed and then there will be more leeway for a decent increase in wages, should it be merited.

Part of the deal should be the scrapping of "Bonuses" right across the board, Wether your a manager or a binman. The council workers must understand, it can't all be take take take.
39

Corky,

26/11/2009 11:26:59
Number 6,

I agree with you that there may well be a case for reducing numbers in certain areas of Public sector employment. However, you need to remember that there are probably equally strong cases for increasing numbers in some other areas.

Finally, given that public sector workers already enjoy all the advantages I mentioned in post number 29, I think there is no case for pay rises irrespective of the numbers employed.
40

Number 6,

Germany 26/11/2009 11:40:28
#42 Corky ,
I agree that in the current climate it seems remarkable that the Unions think they can hold the country to ransom and demand a pay rise.

I doubt any of their cases merits a rise in pay, but your right, there may be areas in various councils that need an increase in manpower.

That is an internal matter and up to the individual councils to deal with.

It will be fascinating to see how the Labour detatchment plays this one. Do they keep up the charade of being the party of "The working man"? or do they try and distance themselves from these pay demands.

I imagine as usual they will change their stance more often than their socks, without ever explaining themselves.
41

Corky,

26/11/2009 11:48:28
Number 6,

I don't think any modern political party should champion on one sector of society - there is a balance to achieve in Government.

Frankly, I think 'the working man' of yesteryear who needed and created the labour movement to fight for him (or her) is largely no more. The Labour party had to move on, as do the Tories who can no longer fight solely for a sector of society, even the SNP must re-assess it's position in the light of a rapidly changing world.
42

Number 6,

Germany 26/11/2009 12:06:54
To think Corky,
it used to be the tories the "Working man" voted for.

Going back a bit there of course. lol
43

Angoos,

Baku, Azerbaijan 26/11/2009 12:27:44
#15

They may be "illegal" but they do exist.
Folk are "encouraged" to join a union in places like local councils.

As for the poor wee council workers taking a wage "freeze" for a year.... how does that "unfortunately" mean "council workers are now forever one step behind, having relinquished one year's pay rise"

Are councill workers the only people to forfeit a pay rise ? I was always under the impression that pay rises were generally "performance based".... if thsi was the case then council workers would be getting a wage reduction !
44

Tux,

Lancaster 26/11/2009 12:34:35
I'm more or less happy with the service provided by public sector workers. There is a certain core who take too many days off sick but I think most of them put in a reasonable shift.
That said, asking for 3% is wrong. It might have been done with the aim of moving 0% to 1% but they would be better saying 1% is their aspiration.
If they decide to take industrial action for 3%, as a customer, I would rather we stuck them out, even if it means bins piling up etc.
45

westenders999,

26/11/2009 13:25:15
Last year the average (median) salary in the public sector was higher than in the private sector. The argument about in-general low paid public sector workers doesn't wash. When you add pension on top of that it is very skewed.
Most people in the private sector have pay rises dictated by events way beyond their control. The bakery manager at Sainsburys might do his/her job very well but their rise will be hit by the recession if Sainsburys takings are down. Why should that same manager then have to pay more tax so that public sector workers can have a bigger rise?
46

Jimbor ,

Northampton 26/11/2009 13:48:53
What about the war in Iraq? What about all those M.P'S expenses? What about the £millions in handouts given to the banks ? If all that money was "found",then I suggest the government "finds" a bit more to pay our public servants a decent wage.
47

Spannerstherevengein3D,

26/11/2009 13:50:28
Well here we are again in Tory utopia where 3% of 20,000 per annum is outrageous but 300% of 3 million is less than generous.
48

Albion Bob,

26/11/2009 14:06:44
"Our members in Scotland's local councils have delivered around £200 million worth of efficiency savings, with a loss of around 7,000 jobs. It is only fair councils should share these efficiency savings with staff as well as council tax payers"

Any council tax payers out there ever received a reduction in monthly bills????

Councils are notorious for not being efficient or cost effective. KPI the lot of them. Ban union activities. Ban bonuses for just turning up at work.

49

"The Public Servants" account for 60% of The Scottish population please do tell where the money is coming from? What has a war in Iraq got to do with local council expenditure.

50
Ususal nonsense.
49

Albion Bob,

26/11/2009 14:07:23
correction
usual
50

Spannerstherevengein3D,

26/11/2009 16:20:30
51

Usual trolling rhetoric no normal poster would put up.
51

Spannerstherevengein3D,

26/11/2009 16:29:57
51

Maybe you can explain why service cuts coupled with tax increases means that in future we will have to suffer from further service cuts coupled with further tax increases???? doesnt make sense either mathamatically logically nor politically.
Are you going to tell us that this never ending pattern of taking more money and delivering less for it is normal? are you going to tell us that this is how government should work? Are you going to keep telling the same Tory right wing lies about the need to keep cutting in order to make savings????? because we keep cutting but we dont seem to be making any savings in fact we end up paying for the same services twice + VAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dont know about you but I am sick and tired of the same Lying Bulls*t with regards to the so called need for service cuts and public expenditure.
52

The Tin Man,

26/11/2009 19:28:34
Interestingly, the old class divides look like they are turning into the public / private divide.

Anyway, well done to Observer for trolling through the thread and invoking a bit of a discussion.
53

Buckfastleigh,

Forfar, and with along spoon... 26/11/2009 19:58:03
37. Put not your trust in UKIP to run a kindergarten judging by the goings on in court in relation to one late little lamented MEP of that persuasion.

If you want your services you will need to pay a fair price for them. Sacking workers means fewer or less services. So when you need it and cant get it don't complain: it will be simply too late. Just stick to the Buckie and enjoy the fresh air!
54

Sgian Achlais,

26/11/2009 20:19:59
No pay rise for any council worker earning over £25k. The rest should get nothing and be really glad they have a job, a pension, a life insurance, flexible working times, job for life and 6 months full pay and 6 months half pay when they are sick, which most of them are every year to a much higher percentage than the tax generating members of the public.
55

Sgian Achlais,

26/11/2009 20:25:50
Most people in the council have been there for so long they would not survive in the real world where skilled joiners are pushing trolleys at Tesco to make a living.

All this class war nonsense and socialism spouted by the council workers via their well off union reps is a joke.

This is not the 70's and you have a better life than most ordinary people out there.

I have friends who work in a few different Councils and I have clients who work for the Highland Council. They are living in la la land. The recession is not real for them. It does not exist in the public sector.

Pay rise. Thank God, Allah and the Tooth fairy you have a job. If you are not happy change and see how you tranfer the skills of doing eff all all day into the real world.

(Yes I kow there are many good workers in the councils, usually low paid and un rewarded but their is a majority of skivers bleeding the country dry with high wages and low performance)

Who knows of anyone ever sacked from the council unless it was for being non PC.

56

Sgian Achlais,

26/11/2009 20:32:12
I visit about 20 different business premisis per week in my work up and down the country and I could spot Public Sector from Private Sector just by looking at the car parks (many good cars at the public sector car parks compared to a few fantanstic cars in private sector car parks) and the business activity within the workspace.

In the public sector they have paper mountains with armies of people shuffling pointless documents while the roads have holes, people have no homes and the schools have no books.

Millions every year wasted on political correctness, legal advice and daft policies.

57

Buckfastleigh,

Forfar 26/11/2009 20:47:17
60, 61, 62 Don't recognise your unreal havering: "No pay rise for any council worker earning over £25k. The rest should get nothing and be really glad they have a job, a pension, a life insurance, flexible working times, job for life and 6 months full pay and 6 months half pay when they are sick, which most of them are every year to a much higher percentage than the tax generating members of the public."

How does this compare to Bankers perks, mate?

Suggest in your own time you volunteer to visit old incontinent persons in their homes...enjoy doing good to the needy in our community.
58

Thistledhu,

26/11/2009 22:12:59
I work for a local Authority and I am a member of unison, Ilike to make this clear.

I and none of my Colleagues have been consulted by the union proir to this anouncement.

no- one beleives that the 3% demand is credible we all live in the reality of tight budget strings that all councils now face. The union cheifs clearly do not.
59

Thistledhu,

26/11/2009 22:41:49
the only thing you will get if we go for 3% is job losses to pay for it.
The money simply is not there.
as for support for the claim when your attending meetings and being told we must save costs then up pops Prentice, Black and co and come out with this without a seconds consultation it just defys beleif
60

Thistledhu,

26/11/2009 22:46:47
lets not forget if it were not for the manouvers of Unison hoouse last year we would be sitting with a 2.5% raise this year and next. in these circumstances that is not a bad deal at all. is it ?
61

Buckfastleigh,

26/11/2009 23:27:47
68. Why blame Heather Wakefield when the three unions on the staff Side of the National Negotiation with the National employers were clearly being directed by HMG to pay nothing. Same in England and Cymru.

You try one thing and attempt to do the best for members and get derisory pay rises imposed as a result.

Yes you are lucky to have jobs but the whole economy is in a mess and I blame the bankers for it. We are all having to pay for the Mess, and how!

 

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