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Call to change rules on MSP expenses to restore confidence

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Published Date:
29 March 2007
GEORGE Reid, Holyrood's Presiding Officer yesterday called for a "radical" overhaul of MSPs' expenses, claiming the
current system could tarnish the public's perception of the Parliament.

In his last major pronouncement, Mr Reid said the controversial Edinburgh accommodation allowance, that allows MSPs to buy flats in the capital and claim for mortgage interest, needed to be looked at.

Critics say the system allows politicians to make big profits from rising property prices while taxpayers pay the bills.

The contentious issue has seen Nicol Stephen, the deputy first minister, Tavish Scott, the transport minister and John Home Robertson, the Labour backbencher, all put under the spotlight. But other MSPs were careful not to criticise what they called "the most transparent" expenses system in the world.

Mr Reid has been Presiding Officer since 2003 and is soon to return to international aid work. He left with a note of caution for fellow MSPs.

In a "legacy paper", the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body, which he heads, advised its successors what improvements could be made, in particular to the expenses system.

"I think personally we need a fairly radical look at the whole structure of allowances and we should do so transparently," said Mr Reid.

He said the allowances system was brought in "lock, stock and barrel" from Westminster, including an allowance for MSPs living far away from the parliament. However this has led to problems. He said the system could be adjusted, but it will need "completely reworking" if the accommodation allowance is to be reformed.

The review could be carried out by the Senior Salaries Review Body or senior figures from industry.

Mr Reid himself was entitled to a flat but has never taken advantage of the system, preferring to stay in a hotel at a modest saving to the taxpayer, because "in politics, perception is everything".

"I think our successors will give due thought to perhaps an external valuation of the whole allowances system."

Tommy Sheridan, the leader of Solidarity, welcomed Mr Reid's comments. He said: "The perception of the Scottish people is that MSPs have been enriching themselves at the taxpayer's expense, and they are right - we need an independent review with representatives of the people of Scotland deciding the system, not the MSPs."

However, Gordon Jackson, the Labour MSP, argued that the allowances system had served the parliament well. He said it would be more expensive to put up MSPs in hotels, and they were entitled to a property.

"If they say we have to look at it again I have no objection, but if there is a suggestion there is something badly wrong with it then I do not see any evidence of that and I don't think that perception is true.

WHAT THEY CLAIMED

TAVISH Scott, the Lib Dem MSP for Shetland, was charging taxpayers nearly £1,000 a month to cover his costs for a £380,000 house in the Morningside area of Edinburgh.

John Home Robertson, the Labour MSP for East Lothian, was criticised after it was revealed he was claiming £7,000 a year to live in his son's Edinburgh flat.

Nicol Stephen, Lib Dem, the Deputy First Minister, broke Holyrood expenses the rules by claiming thousands of pounds on a house jointly owned with his wife. He claimed £9,000 a year.

Jim Wallace, the Lib Dem former deputy first minister, bought two Edinburgh flats under the system.

THE MSPs WHO CLAIMED

SOME of the MSPs who have claimed for second homes:

Brian Adam, SNP, North East Scotland

Richard Baker, Labour, North East Scotland

Chris Ballance, Green, South of Scotland

David Davidson, Conservative, North East Scotland

Fergus Ewing, SNP, Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber

Linda Fabiani, SNP, Central Scotland

Alex Fergusson, Conservative, Galloway and Upper Nithsdale

Ross Finnie, Lib Dem, West of Scotland

Murdo Fraser, Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife

Rob Gibson, SNP, Highlands and Islands

Hugh Henry, Labour, Paisley South

Adam Ingram, SNP, South of Scotland

Alex Johnstone, Conservative,

Andy Kerr, Labour, East Kilbride

Richard Lochhead, SNP

George Lyon, Liberal Democrat, Argyll and Bute

Maureen Macmillan, Labour, Highlands and Islands

Stewart Maxwell, SNP, West of Scotland

Tom McCabe, Labour, Hamilton South

Bruce McFee, SNP, West of Scotland

Duncan McNeil, Labour, Greenock and Inverclyde

Nanette Milne, Conservative, North East Scotland

Alasdair Morrison, Labour, Western isles

David Mundell, Conservative,

Alex Neil, SNP list, Central

Peter Peacock, Labour, Western Isles

Euan Robson, Lib Dem

Mike Rumbles, Lib Dem, West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine

Eleanor Scott, Green, Highlands and Islands

Tavish Scott, Lib Dem, Shetland

Nicol Stephen, Lib Dem, Aberdeen South

Stewart Stevenson, SNP, Banff and Buchan

John Swinney, SNP, Tayside North

Murray Tosh, Conservative, West of Scotland

Jim Wallace, Lib Dem, Orkney

Andrew Welsh, SNP, Angus

Allan Wilson, Labour,

Cunninghame North

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 28 March 2007 11:38 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Politicians' pay
 
1

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 29/03/2007 01:00:44

I'd call the current expenses system at Holyrood "fiddle as you go" .. for all the scandals it's produced - what's already been made public, and the stuff still under the carpet that's still to come out.

But the msps recently voted to scale back regulation of themselves - so a more transparent system on expenses won't be on the cards I think - no matter which headline grabbers use to make a meal of (all the while knowing nothing will be done anyway).

Rather ... "In politics, deception is everything"

2

Guga,

Rockall 29/03/2007 01:09:55

It's not a case of "the current system could tarnish the public's perception of the Parliament.", it has already tarnished it.

Why don't they build a hostel for them, as that way, the building remains the property of the people. It would prevent what looks very much like profiteering at the taxpayers expense.

It could be built on the outskirts of Edinburgh, and they could run a wee shuttle bus to take them back and forward. That way we could also save a fortune on taxis and private hire cars.

Our perception is definitely tarnished, due to too many pigs at the trough.

3

Canny Mann,

Scottish Borders 29/03/2007 02:30:00

Having brought the expenses system, lock stock and barrel from westminster, it is very apparent to the Scottish people from reports in the media(and some unreported as yet, expense claims) the sickening largesse by some MSPsis appaling. This is the fat cat policy we are sickened by in Scotland, from years of watching westminster policy. Huge salary increases(backdated), Extensive pension advantages, "No" Smoking ban in westminster, free cars to/from work, spectacular holiday arrangements and free houses. If Scotland was as skint as MSPs in Labour/Lib,dem/Tory parties would have the people believe, then there would not be a feast for them to enjoy at the trough.
If as previously mentioned, there was an accomodation block with suites for our MSPs. Then the building would belong to the people, paid for by the people and endorsed by the people. It would also make it easier to protect the MSPs in regards to thier safety.
Having the people through taxes, buy these MSPs a house as a perk, is MSPs being parasites, nothing other than greed.
In Edinburgh Castle there is accomodation for hundreds of troops. One of the most secure sites in Scotland. The officers mess is as posh and oppulent as any MSPs taste. The officers accomodation too is of a very high standard. Why cant the MSPs be given quarters in the castle.Westminster is sending soldiers to civilian hospitals(NHS) with military wards. Sending detainees to army camps to be held under home office orders. There used to be a much bigger army, which would suggest there is spare capacity in terms of accomodation. Renovating castle appartments, would be a lower cost to the scottish tax payer and owned in perpetuity by the people. Our MSPs would be able to use a mini bus or similar, to go from Hollyrood to the castle and back, or the MSPs could even try public forms of transport. Or are they not as green as they claim?
The MSPs expect the people to use it. If its good enough for us, it should b

4

Scaramouche2,

29/03/2007 02:38:56

It appears we could do with a few less MSPs. I think their monthly stipend is large enough WITHOUT extra benefits. And yes, the public has been conned enough. TWO flats in the city??? One I can understand, but TWO??? These sods are having a laugh!!! They certainly won't need golden handshakes when they lose their warm seats, will they? They'd better not!!! We don't get huge amounts of cash with our P45s, why should they??

5

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 29/03/2007 04:22:01

Well done to the Scotsman for naming and shaming these unscrupulous cheats.

This seems to happen in every political system but it doesn't bode well for an independent Scotland when most of our MSPs are already used to stealing from the tax payer to feather their own nests!!!

6

williamx,

Delta,Canada 29/03/2007 04:39:33

Easy solution to this. Impose a 100% capital gains tax on the MSP properties. End of story. In Canada, a MP has to declare which residence is his permanent abode. The second one attracts capital gains tax. Most of our guys share a rental condo in Ottawa. I guess they are not rip off artists like yours.

7

Bill, Dunblane,

29/03/2007 05:08:38

The opinion poll that ain't even talked about in on line papers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_4670000/newsid_46...

Slide player along to 15 minutes, 30 seconds.

8

,

29/03/2007 06:18:29
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9

,

29/03/2007 06:19:03
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10

BillyB,

Govan 29/03/2007 06:32:48

Well said AJS - I've met Geore Reid a couple of times and there was always something a bit too slick about him for me. The nats were welcome to him as far as I was concerned - give me Commons Speaker Michael Martin any day. A "duffer" maybe but an honest one and a nice guy too - enjoyed a few pints with him though I ain't Labour

But George Reid, the caption on the Scotsam's photol says it all

George Reid: 'In politics perception is everything'

For you maybe George - it is us mugs out here that suffer and you that gets the perks , knighthoods ( 1st July at the Riding is it - capped by HMQ on the floor of your personal palace is it?) and company directorships.

You don't fool me - toom tabard

11

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 29/03/2007 06:38:56

We continue to have scandals in Canada by Members of Parliament at the national and provincial levels claiming exorbitant repayment for lavish lunches and dinners sometimes costing hundreds of dollars for TWO people.

They order the finest wines costing hundreds of dollars per bottle and think they can get away with it. The rules have been tightened and most politiicians here settel with a soup and sandwich with bottled water for lunch and a basic supper.

But still there are those who WILL NOT learn and periodically their expense records are published on the front pages of our newspapers and they are shamed into repaying their piggish extravagances.

Politicians worldwide ARE pigs at the trough and they thing the DESERVE all these perks. Many have not been re-elected because of their gourmandising ways and their cavalier attitude to spending the hard-earned wages of taxpayers who will never have a three-hundred dollar lunch with wines extra in their lifetimes

I say a pox on all the houses of politicians in Scotland and Canada who betrau the public trust by indulging in grunting and groaning at the taxpayer-funded trough.

12

Repton,

edinburgh 29/03/2007 06:44:50

That list is a list of shame.These money grabbing M S P`s should be made to hand back any profit made when selling second home.
Well done George Reid for saying this must change.There`s no need for this sharp practice.

13

Repton,

edinburgh 29/03/2007 06:48:58

When I was a taxi driver in Edinburg I used to pick George up regulary from Waverley Station.I always found him polite and if you judged a book by it`s cover a very honest guy.So Billy I don`t know where you get the idea he`s not a decent guy.Never came accross as a "slick" person to me.

14

rab, glasgow,

29/03/2007 06:54:10

Reid is a parasite, why wait eight years before opening his gob? the reason is simple he is shooting the craw with a big fat undeserved pension.
good riddance creep.

15

School Inspector,

29/03/2007 07:03:31

It is not the system that is wrong, it is the constant abuse of the system by members of all parties; most are individuals who could not make the grade on a national scale and now have an over-inflated view of their importance in Scotland - and big fish in small ponds always abuse the system eventually. Maybe some truely bigger players operating in Scotland would help. Having the Economist refer to the First Minister as a "numpty" says a great deal about how Scottish politics is seen outside Scotland.

16

Ruskie,

Edinburgh 29/03/2007 07:31:00

Good on The Scotsman for exposing these b*****S who are very clearly and openly screwing the sytem for their own financial benefit. They should be forced by law to and over any profits to a registered charity- HOW ABOUT SHELTER!! FOR THE REAL NEEDY PEOPLE THE HOMELESS. I hope you MSP's with your snouts in the trough read this I n know who you are!!

17

BillyB,

Govan 29/03/2007 07:37:53

Repton#15 - I dont "judge a book by its cover" - indeed that is one of Scotland's problems - we are all just a bit too nice and gulible. Rip us off , mislead us, defend the indefensible ...that nice articulate and polite guy George, surely not? But as AJS puts better than me, why wait eight years and until the moment (a) no expenses cut will affect him ( just where were you taking him by taxi from Waverely? - the Mound /and or Holyrood? - we'd all walk. and (b) He is no longer in a position to do anything about it - when until today when he retires, he was the best placed person in the world- the all party/non party Chaiman of the "company" . Ex chairman moaning that the new one is not doing something he never did or even publicly questioned in eight yeras ( he was Depute PO under Steel) have very little credibity in my eyes, "nice guys " or not. Nice guys built the Holyrodo building I am sure. But give me a nasty one that brought it in on time and on budget any day.

And as for George's announcement, spinning the Scottish media like dishes to the end - zilch will happen MSP allowances wise, but he will for sure get his knigfhthood, parliament pension and company directorships - even his "Riding" monarchcal panto on 1st July ( cost about 50 accomandantion allowances). And, not that it fundamentally matters - performance counts more - not a nice guy either - speak to somebody who has done more than run him up and down the road for a few minutes before pronouncing him a good guy. Ask the SNP Holyrood group indeeed, most of them were delighted to get rid of him - they have only recently sussed he left them long ago, circa 1975. And if he is so great and nice, why is he not re-standing? If you ever get a hire from someone in Ochil SNP they might tell you

18

Country lad, oo aarh!,

Isle of Skye 29/03/2007 07:49:28

Canny Mann No. 3 you make some feasible suggestions. I would like to add that it's such a pity that our gaols are so crammed full at the moment - otherwise they would provide some VERY SECURE accommodation for this bunch of crooks!

19

Paddi,

29/03/2007 08:01:15

They're all rotten every single last one of them. On the make and what we see if the tip of the iceberg. USELESS the lot of them

20

HV,

29/03/2007 08:11:29

Too late. Already tarnished. Too many of them are just in it for themselves. I regret ever thinking that a Scottish Assembly was a good idea.

21

Paul Spencer,

Glasgow 29/03/2007 08:18:43

No3 I do think your comments have merit, there is no doubt that the MSPs do need accomodation, and there is no reason why we dont PFI a MSP accomodation block, which can be turned into a 5 star hotel when we realise the futality of having a Scottish Parliament.
As to too many MSPs couldnt agree more and what do they talk about? The day of the debate on going to war with Iraq our peedie parliament debated Dog crap, an indicative subject for the occupants of Holyrood!!
As a tory Ill be voting Nat in May, just so we can have some real accountability as oppossed to fudge and obstification

22

Gee Dee,

Recovery Position 29/03/2007 08:25:12

As I have said before the Parly building was petty cash, its upkeep and all who preside in it are cheating us blind with the salaries, pensions, allowances and expences and giving too little back in return. Alex you have seen what has gone before and you are hereby given notice to sort it out or follow them to the Gallows

23

Colin G,

Edinburgh 29/03/2007 08:35:59

The Labour Government in Westminster is fond of retrospective taxation so we have the precedent principle.

Any MSP who has made a financial gain through the legal use of this system should be set back to where they were no better or worse off. They should be hounded until any profit made is handed to a deserving homeless charity.

A hostel is a tremendous idea. It should be in one of the cheapest areas of Edinburgh, and the use of cars to get to it should be banned. All the MSPs should stay in this hostel for every night of their 3 day week.

24

exiledscot,

29/03/2007 08:52:00

It's a well known fact that power corrupts and total power corrupts totally. The MSPs are but one example of this and quite frankly, whoever is in power will be(come) corrupt to some extent.
I'm not even sure that they are even ashamed to make the headlines for their dubious practices.
As #1 Peter Cherbi wrote, "in politics, deception is everything". OK, we do get the opportunity every so often to change "the pigs who are feeding in the trough", but I have no dillusions - they will not be any different.

25

morris,

Edinburgh 29/03/2007 08:53:16

Accountability does not exist. Tighter rules might help,but a fixed sum paid to each constituency with a weighting allowance to reflect the distance and travelling from Edinburgh could be one way to stop any irregularities.
YOu dont want them so why risk them?
Theres something distinctly wrong when a member from North West Scotland claims less than a member from Lowland Scotland! This is not possible.
The idea of halls of residence for each constituency near the Parliament building seems to be the fairest system.It should be a decent standard with cleaning staff of course,and probably a restaurant,but it provides nourishing meals .If they want T bone steak they pay for it outside same as the rest of us and out of their salaries!

26

jennie,

inverness 29/03/2007 09:02:08

#2 guga, unbelievably, we agree on something at last - in fact considering the cost of the Parly building, it should have incorporated a hostel/hotel on site.

27

iain,

edinburgh 29/03/2007 09:20:52

Can I have an allowance?I earn just over £30k per annum and have two sons at Uni.I've had to re mortgage-I pay about £7k in income tax and £2K in council tax,so i need extra to pay my mortgage and for the boys. So YOU GREEDY USELESS SCUM can i have an extra housing allowance -MR TAVISH SCOTT, eh, AND ALL THE F~~~~~~ REST OF YOU WHO COULD'NT RUN A CHIP SHOP.

28

DAMcK,

Lanark and Poole 29/03/2007 09:21:12

No doubt they'll be up for the latest "snouts in trough" wheeze voted in by MPs yesterday ..... £10K each to create and support a non-party-political website.

That's over £6M of our tax money used for them to tell us how good and great they are!

How on earth did they arrive at 10K per annum? This should only cost £1K at most, including inital creation (from a template design for all to use) and hosting.

Where is Guy Fawkes when you need him?

29

yolanda,

29/03/2007 09:24:27

I was thinking the same thing. Given the cost of the ruddy thing, why wasn't an accommodation block added on as an annexe? Surely it would have been cheaper than having them all shafting us with their expenses?

30

Resident,

Happy to be living in Scotland 29/03/2007 09:27:46

#2 Guga – Yes a hostel, but why in the outskirts requiring a shuttle bus?

#3 Canny Man – I like the idea of Edinburgh Castle! Safe, secure and within walking distance – only a Royal Mile. What more could they want? Would keep them fit & healthy too. Obviously, there would need to be exceptions in the case of an MSP with a disability – that would be reasonable.

#27 Morris

I think the idea of a Hall of Residence within walking distance of the Scottish Parliament with the facilities which you suggest is a very good idea. This could then be rented out in the holiday season during the Edinburgh Festival (as are those of the University) at a great profit to build up funds for the following year.

One alternative could be what used to be known as the ‘Commercial Hotel’ where businessmen/women stayed four nights week. For the other three nights (i.e. Friday to Sunday) one would presume that MSPs are in their own Constituencies, therefore enabling the opportunity for a good clean of the premises and time off for its staff.

Would the idea of B & B during the week not be more appropriate on cost grounds? It would be much cheaper!

I have to say, when I saw the new flats being built adjacent to the Parliament building, opposite Dynamic Earth and the Scotsman Offices, I was under the impression that they would be ‘pieds à terre’ for the MSPs. Now that would make sense in the absence of any other possibilities. Who needs more than a studio flat in Edinburgh anyway?

31

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29/03/2007 09:35:33
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32

JayJay,

Glasgow - ish 29/03/2007 10:11:35

I am quite happy to give people living/representing the Highlands the benefit of the doubt. Those however who live in the central belt really need to explain why they need a second house when many of their constituents have no difficulty commuting to edinburgh on a daily basis.
I worked in edinburgh for 3 years, and faced the horrors of scotrails malfuctioning "flagship" pocket emptying service (I use the word service in its loosest possible meaning). No-one at my place of employment offered to pay my fare, never mind volunteered a second house on expenses. On the train, I spoke to people who had a daily commute from places as far afield as Ayr.
So just who are the likes of John Swinney and Hugh Henry trying to convince that this is a necessary expense. We all know its perceive, by some, as a perk, and we all know the sort of chancers who will exploit such perks - I have worked with such characters.
Perhaps the best bet is to stop all this unnecessary openness about things such as expenses and second hooses. I am sure the proles would be better rolling around in the muck and knowing nothing.

33

davydee,

Edinburgh 29/03/2007 10:20:37

There should be committee set up of citizens etc to set the rules for expenses and not drawn up by politicians who surely breach what is fair at taxpayers expense do you think my employer would let me state what expense's I should have no so as a taxpayer and the politicians are my employees we should decide. The latest being that each sitting Mp can now get 10k communication expense's so they can communicate with their constiuents who voted for that you guess the MP's did CORRUPT or what

34

Tarchin,

Lothian 29/03/2007 10:22:04

I agree with much that has been said about "snouts in the trough" and what slould be done to correct this, my question is simply How? How do we persuade these "Political Turkeys" to vote for Christmas and to relinquish their "perks"?
The old GPO building at the east end of Princes Street would have made first class accommodation for our MSPs, commercial pressures have seen this fine building turned into offices, several of which appear un-occupied.

35

Transparent?,

Scotland 29/03/2007 10:24:54

AJS, #10 & #11

No more needs to be said, except to invite every reader to copy it, frame it and hang it in their living room - lest we forget. The MSPs sure won't forget and they will be already planning how to avoid such "transparency" in the future.

36

David MacVicar,

web. 29/03/2007 10:33:46

#17 School Inspector. I agree. Most of the MSPs regardless of party abuse the system to their advantage. It is going to get worse before it gets better. If the press spent more time investigating instead of being a mouth piece the system might change for the better.

AM/AM2. Cheaper would be a bunch of apartments for shared MSP use. Even this would probably be abused as public finds got diverted to turn the aparments into mini palaces. At the end of the day I suppose I am willing to let high expense claims slide if they actually do a good job for those they represent and that is where the public decides at the end of the day.

37

Courtney,

East Molesey 29/03/2007 10:35:17

George will have to do a lot more to restore any confidence in the MSPs ability to lead the public to think they are no longer "troughing" it on taxpayers money!

38

Colin G,

Edinburgh 29/03/2007 10:35:29

Re 37

Why on earth should the MSPs get 'first class' accomodation?

39

CJO,

29/03/2007 11:04:54

This will save the equivalent of the cost of a clothes peg and a balloon in budgetary terms. I would be happier to see them getting policy and spending right. the whole thing should be simple. There are a set of rules that states what they can and can't be reimbursed for. If they break the rules and it looks deliberate and the MSP appears to be committing a fraud, hand it over to the Fiscal's Office.

On a more interesting note, the national press is rattling on about the Lib Dems and SNP coalition - what will happen to all the SNP commenators on these pages that have vilified the "Fib-Dems" for the last few months?

Best coalition remains the SNP and Tories.

40

ikonoclast,

29/03/2007 11:07:13

The only thing that will restore public confidence in that shower of trough-snouting rogues is when they are all voted out in May.

41

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 29/03/2007 11:08:13

...waited 8 years to say this because he's retiring of course, and most probably in line for a title or peerage, like the first waster in the same position he replaced....

42

rosford,

Scotland 29/03/2007 11:13:12

MP's justify there allowances by benchmarking them with "best practice" in the private sector - atleast they used to.
It is indeed morally bankrupt to have a second property paid for by the tax payer and then to pocket the capital gain on selling - that is what is fundamentally wrong and such arrangements do not exist in the private sector.
Another example is their accrual rate on final salary pensions of 1/40th's. Best available in the private sector is 1/54th's (one of the very few left).
Refreshing to see posts not ending with a final salutation of its time.
I wonder why?

43

Harry Haggis,

29/03/2007 11:16:52

#44 Peter - you are at it again, putting the boot in via forums. You were once given the opportunity to speak and you refused ... why? it was your big chance.

44

Scaramouche2,

29/03/2007 11:18:02

Just a thought .... why not rehouse all the residents of the Dumbiedykes high flats into the houses the MSPs have bought ...... and then settle the MSPs into the Dumbiedykes high flats so that they can get to their work and then get home quicker, especially after a late sitting. Saves on taxis, doesn't it? Then of course, if there's an emergency session required ... well, they're all together in ONE place. Easy to get to!!!

Common sense at work!

45

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 29/03/2007 11:38:18

#45. Harry Haggis

not at all,Mr Haggis, on the contrary, I have spoken, and legislation has arrived.

Helped or successfully campaigned for the passage any laws improving transparency & consumer rights lately ?

If you have, feel free to talk about your efforts - rather than resorting to the typical profession's style of attacking victims & campaigners to mask corruption & inequalities & injustice in the law.

46

Confused,

29/03/2007 11:46:52

I see the Westminster MPs voted themselves another £10000 for things like web sites. It's time all expenses and wages were determined by an independent body made up of "average" people (not the usual cronies). Ministers should not be able to vote on their own salaries/ expenses under any circumstances.

47

Kieron,

Stirling 29/03/2007 11:56:28

Little wonder Edinburgh Airport has grown its passenger numbers to London. It's the MSP's fleein up and doon the country all the time! Stop it!

48

Busymale,

29/03/2007 12:12:19

"But other MSPs were careful not to criticise what they called "the most transparent" expenses system in the world." So....there you go, it makes me feel so much better to know that I am being transparently ripped off!

49

JuanKerr,

Edimbra...... 29/03/2007 12:22:29

Certainly an investigation into councillor expenses should be made. Especially around the area of Directorships.

50

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29/03/2007 12:29:14
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51

Boab,

Glasgow 29/03/2007 12:51:53

No wonder high house prices doesn't seem to be a big issue.

But no, Slippylizard, I don't take this news story to be the definitive proof that Scots can't be trusted with running Scotland! Give 'em some rules to follow and a country to run. Sorted!

52

Lock,

29/03/2007 12:59:35

48. Confused,

I will happily serve for the independent body you suggest.

Just think of all the kickbacks...

53

Allan(handofgod137),

29/03/2007 13:08:25

As their first act in the diddy parly was to vote themselves a pay rise, It's hard to see how their reputation could be more tarnished!

54

Florence,

Edinburgh 29/03/2007 13:24:59

BILLYB@12: Michael Martin a duffer but an honest one? Do some research and you will find he has been embroiled in financial criticism for a while - can't remember the details but it did concern payments being made to his wife and some other scandalous goings-on which have never been resolved.

55

Sedov,

Scotland 29/03/2007 14:03:39

A workers MP on a workers wage with the normal expenses of public sector workers. End the gravy train of ridiculous expenses and put the money saved on cutting the council tax or into the NHS.

56

Sophia,

South Gyle, Edinburgh 29/03/2007 14:07:49

Other than the MSPs from the north of the country...this flat buying for usually just two nights a week is nothing short of an outrage. And when the are sold...the profits go where? The Scotsman should also publish a list to remind people of the MSPs who don't take advantage of this rip-off. Rock-on Tommy !

57

Scottish then British,

CORSTORPHINE 29/03/2007 14:18:14

Restore the peoples confidence what confidence.

Expenses need to be - "looked at" - "radical overhaul" - would this be carried out if expenses claims hadn`t been brought to the publics attention, answer NO.

Apart from MSP`s how many people get expenses to travel to their place of full time and part time work.
Also getting help with buying property with tax payers money.

I thought being a MSP was to serve the tax paying public and to see fair play - not see how much they can screw out of the public purse while doing so.

58

Moder8,

Scotland 29/03/2007 14:57:55

What an utterly depressing expose' of our elected representatives. Surely, if they have any morals, those that have bought property at our expense should give back any profit they make on resale so that those following have a source from which to fund the purchase of living quarters in Edinburgh whilst representing their Constituency.
Still better would be that the MSP's be allocated living quarters in Dumbiedykes during their time in Parliament. No need for taxi expenses, short healthy walk, might improve the image of the area ..... lots of plusses.

59

rayjan,

England 29/03/2007 15:00:52

for politician(of any party colour or nationality) read fraudster, conman,scounger their first priority is to make as much for themselves as quickly as possible whilst thinking how they take our money even quicker

60

Tarchin,

Lothian 29/03/2007 15:23:26

# Colin G, the quotes are yours not mine. What I meant was the old GPO building would have made an excellent choice because of its size, its construction and its proximity to Holyrood. I was not suggesting that we turned it into a five star hotel.
# 44 Peter Cherbi, if the SNP win in May could it be that George Reid is elected a founder member of "The House of Lairds"?

61

Hadrian,

29/03/2007 15:29:25

So the Westminster system of allowances are imported complete to Hollyrood!
Infect a system with a virus and what do you think will happen?
Why the surprise!
Profits when flats are sold should go back to the public purse, if a loss happens, that is carried by the public purse.Cost neutral to the politician.

62

,

29/03/2007 15:44:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 486192, Article id was mapped to record!
63

Cheryl,

29/03/2007 17:27:32

The current system *could* tarnish the public's perception? Too late for that, Mr. Reid. #65 is right. What an absolute joke Hollyrood is.

#61, it's not the morals of the politicians you need to concern yourself with, it's their ethics. Maybe it's within their morals to rip off the taxpayers. Good luck finding a politician with ethics. Finding one of those is as likely as finding a whore who's a virgin.

64

FedUpTaxPayer,

29/03/2007 17:28:25

The whole claiming for a mortgage thing really smells pretty bad...

Should the parliament itself not buy a selection of houses, for use by MSP's. This would cost cash over 25 years, but then is done.

The cash it would cost over the next 25 years is pretty much what would need to be paid anyway as expenses, just the current way the expenses will get paid forever.

65

Andrew Allan,

29/03/2007 17:36:40

The rate of pay for MSPs should be assessed by an independent body, who should also be in charge of expenses too. With expenses you should start out trying to pay out as little as possible but fare.

66

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 29/03/2007 17:51:03

Why does the parliament not simply take out mortgages on a large number of properties in Edinburgh to provide housing for MSPs who cannot commute?

That way we have a legacy too. Or is that too simple?

67

Sambo,

The deep south 29/03/2007 18:44:10

If you think this is extravagant, you're in for a rude awakening if you ever go independent.

68

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 29/03/2007 19:27:09

#63. Tarchin, Lothian

It's said that a title is already in the works (or at least to be offered) tor Mr Reid .... although that will come as no surprise to anyone.

Only time will tell if principles will allow acceptance of said title .. but there's plenty examples to follow on that one - just look at John Home Robertson - he said he was happy to hear he was going to go to the House of Lords even before he was offered it ...

Dont all rusn off to the bookies on that one now ....

69

Sambo,

The deep south 29/03/2007 19:32:59

alma, take the blinkers off. Do you honestly believe that the honorable men you voted for, who pad their expence account now won't do it when they find themselves running the asylum?

70

Sambo,

The deep south 29/03/2007 19:35:07

Robert Burns quoted "a parcel of rogues". I remember my grandfather calling them "a bunch of rascals".

71

wattie>x 1,

29/03/2007 19:45:02

We may forgive them profiting from their ill-gotten gains, should they be forced to donate what they didn't deserve, to some worth while cause, such as increasing the insulting level, off the undignified and disgusting miserly pension of our elderly?

72

Shellfishfarmer,

Inverness 29/03/2007 20:03:50

My latest information on Rob Gibson and Eleanor Scott is that they are 'partners', married if they have paid the licence. Why are they separately claiming housing allowance for the same house?

73

RCG,

29/03/2007 20:05:11

Ken M~69...I think you have found the answer in half a day that has taken George Reid eight years to even start thinkimg about - he needed to say something to grab the headlines on his final hours.

The parly, the institution, could just buy say 70 properties in Edinburgh (or whatever was needed) and offer them as rent free/allowance free accomodation to the MSPs that needed them/were entled to them dring sitting weeks, and even rent them out at a premium rate at Hogmnany, Easter andtae in July August (when holyrood is in recess) at a premium rate to Festival goes etc.

And when an MSP who had such a flat was voted our or retired whover replaced them wou.d use it the same basis. A sound investment i'd think, indeed a way of the institution making some money - now that woud be a first.

No doubt though we will need a royal commission - co-chaired by Sir George and Lord Fraser - to come up with some half baked version fo this idea some time around 2020, when a group of semi intellegent 15 year olds could sort it all out during a double period of Economics in any school in Scotland.

These people - George in particular - need chasing. The guy has a brass neck that would shame Robbie Williams. Good ridance to the Toom Tabbard, but I fear he has a few more tricks up his sleave - like popping up from the grave to urge a no vote in any future indy referendum. For more on this chancer - a grade 1 careerist and hih level Labour sleeper visit
www.youscotland.com

74

unhappy chappy,

Largs 29/03/2007 20:06:41

Was it over nine million they claimed in 2006. Excessive in my mind. Bleeding the system. Why should the tax payer contribute towards a second home for these people. At the end of the day they will sell the property at a huge profit. Will they return the profit they make to the tax payer. No chance. They'll pocket the lot and leave Edinburgh better off than they arrived. Why not build a hostel which they could use if required to stay in Edinburgh. Better still, they could all join the YMCA.

75

Sarah Higgins,

Edinburgh 29/03/2007 20:08:41

I'd just like to point out that there are some principled MSPs out there who don't take the ridiculous salary. The Scottish Socialist Party take roughly half of the 50 grand or whatever it is (This is called the Workers Wage - it's the average wage of a skilled manual worker). They give the rest of their money to the Party or to a variety of causes.

When all this stuff about the expenses came out, some papers reported the SSP in a bad light, by the way - saying they'd claimed tens of thousands of pounds in expenses. In fact, what actually happens is that instead of claiming their staff's wages from the parliamentary system, like other MSPs do, they claim it as expense and pool the wages together, so that their staff are not employed by just one MSP, but are employed by all of them - making it less of a "Boss > Employer" situation. This also means that they are publicly accountable for what wages they pay their staff - unlike other MSPs who pay their staff peanuts but are protected from people finding out about it because of the way they pay them through the parliament. So in fact they don't claim more than all of the other MSPs - they claim the same, or less. It just looks that way. The staffing costs are just coming out of a different method, they would still be coming out of public money anyway like all the rest of the MSPs' staff in Holyrood. The Green party also employ their staff in this way - it's a lot fairer, makes them more publicly accountable and secures the best possible wages and conditions for their staff to not be employed by a single MSP that could in essence fire them at any time - they're in the employ of all of the MSPs collectively

Sorry if that's a bit hard to understand, I didn't explain it very well, I just wanted to dispell any myths that the Socialists are claiming loads when in fact they're not.

76

barbour,

Vassa 29/03/2007 20:39:09

Glad to see that the grasping,greed is not restricted to only one party,some one once said "find me an honest politician" will he/she please stand up!

77

oder,

Scotland 29/03/2007 21:12:54

End all perks now let them live on their pay same as every else! if its not enough they can claim working tax credit.

78

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 29/03/2007 21:16:55

78, RCG. Nice that you agree with me. I do note that 67 said something similar before my comment at 69.

This is not new, however. I wrote to the Hootsman a while ago advocating the purchase of properties for MSPs. I can only assume that journalists are caught up in property speculation too.

George Reid is actually a gentleman in my opinion.

79

siusaidh,

29/03/2007 21:52:31

It's one thing for the MSP's to claim for a 2nd home, but they seem to use the expenses to go for the most expensive homes, which they do doubt end up selling at a high profit afterwards.
When they designed Holyrood, they could have build in accommidation for those MSP's,who don't stay within easy travel distance of the parliament.That would have saved 1000's in expenses.
Since they didn't think about it within their design for a building that was way overpriced from the orginal cost, they should buy a building now ,where MSP's could reside while in Edinburgh for parliament buisiness, the rest of the time ,it should be rented out for tourists, as the tourist season high, while the MSP's aren't in parliament.
This way , the rental from the tourists could cover the expenses from the MSP's.
It's beyond me ,why this hasn't been implemented yet, as it makes perfect sense.

80

Jockyw,

29/03/2007 22:02:52

Call to change???

How did this pass through, why was this system allowed in the first place.

Greedy losers who couldn't get a real job in the real world.

81

DMACD,

Argyll & Bute 30/03/2007 09:27:13

Does anyone know how George Lyon MSP (at the moment ! ) got on with his claim for car journeys in Scotland at the 49.3p mileage rate while he was over in the USA on a Tartan Week jolly ? This was an unfortunate `mistake` in his finances by someone who was ostensibly the deputy finance minister !

This coupled to his conviction for cruelty to sheep under his control may well set some doubts in peoples minds about his suitability for re-election.


 

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