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Bilingual staff 'can halt Polish exodus'



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Published Date: 15 April 2008
A LACK of investment in bilingual school staff could force a "mass exodus" of Polish families – leaving a huge hole in the labour market and crippling the Scottish economy, it was claimed yesterday.
Polish children are allegedly asking their parents to take them home as there is no-one to teach them properly at school.

Economists have already warned that migrant workers could leave because of the plunging value of the pound against the Euro
and the Polish zloty. Now business leaders claim Polish pupils are feeling isolated and foreign workers do not want to sacrifice their children's education.

Polish groups and MSPs are calling for further assistance to be given to help workers' children to learn English.

Zosia Wierbowicz-Fraser, the chairwoman of the Inverness Polish Association, said there were not enough language assistants to help migrant children who don't speak English when they arrive. She said: "These children aren't learning the skills they need. They are becoming isolated and introverted.

"A lot end up talking among themselves in Polish, which is no good to anyone. A lot of them are trying to talk their parents in to going home."

Mary Scanlon, a Highlands MSP, said the problem was particularly serious in the region.

Scotland's biggest teaching union said Highland Council has only one full-time qualified bilingual teacher and two part-timers to cater for 400 migrant children.

Andrew Stewart, of the EIS, said: "It is a case of underfunding. It is putting a lot of pressure on teachers, because these bright kids are only picking up English from their classmates, rather than being taught formally. It helps nobody when there are children in the classroom that do not understand what is being said."



The full article contains 292 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

The Answer,

Glasgow 15/04/2008 01:56:04
For every pound spent in England to teach and support the many millions of non English speakers, 10p has been allocated to scotland under the barnett formula, what has this windfall to scotland been spent on?
2

,

15/04/2008 06:12:22
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3

,

15/04/2008 07:57:35
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4

S'me,

Edinburgh 15/04/2008 08:23:57
I too welcome the Poles, but shouldn't their community help out in schools if they are serious about their childrens education?... I can't imagine going to live in any other country in Europe and English speaking teachers being employed especially for my kids.
5

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 15/04/2008 10:19:36
Hang on, hang on...they can't come to Scotland and automatically expect there to be rafts of Polish supprt services; this is Scotland, not Poland. Of course we should try to help them assimilate into our communities (and they are very welcome), but this shouldn't be our no.1 priority...isn't it their responsibility to develop the skills to work in our country? Whether that be becoming acustomed to our laws, regulation or language?

If I went to Poland and couldn't speak Polish, would'nt it be up to me to learn? I couldn't expect the local authorities there to pay for me...
6

Royalty,

Zandvoort 15/04/2008 11:13:52
#5

Yes I agree, and if you wanted to go to Poland I think you'd struggle with the lingo.

Its worse that double Dutch!

I couldnt see the Polish authorities helping you much.

7

Number 6,

Germany 15/04/2008 11:58:12
"Short for a japanese" this in the bud quickly. No more immigration for those who refuse to learn the language. The next generation of Poles, born in the UK , will all grow up
speaking English. To come all this way , and then expect the education system of the new country to start
teaching in another language is just too much.No other
country in Europe would even begin to implement such a nonsense program. We must stop being the idiots of Europe , caving in to the demands of johnny foreigner.

I can just see my local authorities caving in to demands for lessons in English. Absolutley no chance.

ps . my opening line was because this newspaper found the 3 letter version offensive. No i'm not making it up.Incidentally, kids in Germany are no longer allowed to enter the education system unless they speak German.
Before, the distruption in the class , caused by unruley, out of control bored foreign kids nearly brought the whole system down crashing. It will happen
in Scotland if you pander to this type of ludicrous request.
8

Andrés,

Aberdeen 15/04/2008 13:29:13
Why, Why, Why we're even discussing it? As you can see from my name I'm a foreigner as well in this beautiful lands and when I decided to come to the UK together with my young family we didn't speak a word of English (that was 10 years ago). Whem my 2 sons started in school they didn't understand a word of what was said BUT within couple of months they learned the basics and now a-days their English had become their first language even though their mother tongue is Spanish which we only speak at home..... Why can the Polish and Eastern Europeans do the same??? instead of awaiting for some sort of Government help subsidised by us the TAX Payor or even pretend to have Polish Speaken teachers....Crazy...

As mentioned in other comments above no other country in the world will change the education system curriculum on the basis of migration.

If the Polish or Eastern Europeans feel isolated is only their fall and no one elses....

By the way, I'm not Spanish but Venezuelan and please accept my appologies for any grammar errors on the text.


9

I still don't believe it !,

15/04/2008 13:46:59
#8 Your english is way better than my Spanish so no need to apologise. I agree with your sentiments as well, the world must look at us and think we are crazy if it's seriously suggested that we provide, on a large scale, multi lingual staff to assist the children of migrants in class.
10

Mikey,

15/04/2008 14:20:47
Just as a matter of interest, were all these jobs unfilled before Poland at al became members of the EU?
11

Andrés,

15/04/2008 14:41:52
Thank you number 9.... after posting it I realised there were about three errors but HeyHoo never mind!! Glad you agree with me.
12

Fanling,

Hong Kong 15/04/2008 15:36:31
#7 Number 6,Germany
Not for the first time am I aware of this newspaper's smarmy occupation of the moral high ground with regard to certain words. Censoring your three-letter word, a perceived pejorative to some, but hardly in the context of your post, is just plain ridiculous. You used it as a verb not a noun.

Why then, can't they be consistent and extend it to similar words, like Jock and Paddy? What kind of dollop-heads does it employ to decide what word is or isn't likely to offend? A subjective area, that. The Scotsman's language police are hypocrites. I have seen many acknowledged swearwords printed in that paper which are forbidden to posters. Double standards from the media guardians of Scotland.

I'm in agreement with posters above who assert that immigrants learn the language BEFORE they come to the country, and ensure their children get at least a basic grounding in advance. Children learn quickly, and the younger the better. (This is not addressed to Poles specifically, but to all who wish to migrate to Scotland from non-English speaking lands.) It should not be incumbent on Scotland's local authorities to provide such services. Financial benefits, housing, and free medical care are just a handful of giveaways to all and sundry who haven't paid a penny in taxes. Now we have a shout for free language lessons. The laughing stock of Europe indeed.

As for a "mass exodus" ... Just another sensationalist story, with absolutely no substance, to attempt to justify the unjustifiable.

#8 Andrés,Aberdeen
A fine example of someone taking his rightful responsbility and not expecting the state to jump at his beck and call.

An independent Scotland must not seek EU membership.





13

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 15/04/2008 17:12:07
When I first went to school in rural Aberdeenshire in the late 1950s, I like all the other children spoke nothing but the Doric. English was never spoken at home and, although there was the wireless, we had no television, and were rarely confronted with spoken English, apart from having children's books read to us. That was our only experience of English as all adults we had contact with spoke only the Doric among themselves and with us.

I don't recall any of us having any problem with being taught in English and using that language for the first time. Children are adept at picking up a language very rapidly. After all we learn our mother tongue with no help whatsoever. Some of the older immigrant children could be taught in some of the infant classes for a month or so until they had an understanding of English.

As for Eastern European migrants with children, they have to decide whether there long term plans are to settle permanently here or stay only for a short number of years before returning home.

If it is the former they are going to have to accept that English will become their first language and Polish (or whatever) is going to be their family tongue only, which is not going to be taught apart through family use.

If it is the latter then they should be having their children educated in their home countries, as being here will only be disruptive to their children's long term education in comparison with others who have been continuously taught in their former homelands.

They cannot expect special treatment because they have made the choice to come here. Our teachers have sufficient to be dealing with. If we are to provide education in Polish in this country for Polish citizens' children then it is incumbent on the Polish Government to meet the cost.
14

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15/04/2008 17:47:09
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15

Martyk,

15/04/2008 21:04:11
pOLISH GIRLS ARE LOOKERS THOUGH
16

David Ban,

04620 Vera Spain 15/04/2008 21:14:41
My son in Australia married a bright German girl a few years ago and at present have two grandchildren one aged four and the other two years of age.

She is proud of her culture and speaks German to her children whenever she can. They now speak German and Aussie English (Strine?) The eldest is doing well at school. Of course English is spoken in the home and my grandchildren do not have the handicap of their parents speaking a foreign language all the time!

Children pick up a language very quickly from their foreign peers, how ever for the life of me, there must be intelligent adult bilingual Poles who would come in to schools to help the children accommodate and learn English
17

WL,

livingston 15/04/2008 22:26:42
No problem if people from other EU countries come to live in Scotland; that is their right. But if they can not speak the local language that is their problem, and either the parents or the Polish government will have to pay the bill for their English education.
18

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 15/04/2008 23:51:04
Hello All,

Let's face it, the official language of Great Britain is ENGLISH.
This is not and was not, a secret to either the Poles or anyone else across the globe.

People moving to another country have the moral and ethical BURDEN upon THEM, NOT the host government, nor the host culture/people.

When I moved to Germany to do my Master's research, I did NOT expect Germans to accommodate me by speaking English: I was the 'visitor', hence, the burden was MINE to learn German.

Same holds (again, ethically and morally) true for any country, and culture, and any people.

Except of course, for the idiot politicians in English Speaking countries: THESE IDIOTS actually expect the Host Society to bend over backwards (to its financial, cultural, and linguistic detriment) for both legal and ILLEGAL immigrants!

New York City allows people to take the Driver's License Test in more than 70 languages I believe! Remind me again what language the STREET SIGNS are in?

I can't go to Mexico and expect the Mexican govt. to allow me to stay there illegally, or to take driver's tests in English, or that Govt. forms will be printed in English rather than Mexican-Spanish!

Why in the world are English Speaking Politicians so utterly, insipidly, and stupidly so intent upon destroying their mother cultural in favor of others?

When did the cultures of English Speaking Countries become inherently of less value than the culturals of non-English Speaking countries.

This is what I mean when I say that any honest, reasonable, and respectful American, Scot, Welshman, Irishman, and yes, Englishman, Aussie, and Kiwi, needs to STAND UP and tell the Professional Pols, NO MORE!

Legal Reciprocity should be enacted into Legislation IMMEDIATELY: which means that if Poland has bi-lingual forms, tests, school programs, THEN Great Britain will enact mirror programs.

Otherwise: take a hike!

Cheers from the Rockies
19

Soodack,

Inverness 16/04/2008 08:33:56
Hi
The idea of this article is really stupid, I do agree with that; I just can`t figure out, why it became again, kind of "pretext" to show Scots hateness to Poles...
I think, you people need some more distans..
Polish guy
20

Calum Crubag,

Dùn Eideann 16/04/2008 09:08:03
#18 - dumbkopf. So English is the 'British' language?!! No Welsh (< Brythonnic) or Gaelic?

David Ban - some countries do pay for incomers to learn their language. Finland for example pays for non-Finnish speakers to take courses. Very welcome it is too. And yes, children soak up languages. Look at the success of the Gaelic-medium units where children are fluent in two languages by the end of P1 and are given a third in P5/6.

Wonder how many folk here would want to do the jobs most Poles are doing?
21

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 17/04/2008 01:30:29
Hello Calum,

My dear fellow, take a glass of some fine Oban products and kick back for a moment, will you?

Whether you like it or not, during the Modern Era (which IS what we are talking about), ENGLISH has been the bona fide language of the British Empire/Nation.

You'll note that NOWHERE in my other post did I say that your heart's desire, Gaelic, cannot be taught, should not be taught, or should not be funded. I actually happen to support public funding and instruction of Gaelic in public schools, as GAELIC was the 'mothertongue' of Scotland, prior to control by the English.

You will note that Scotland is NOT Poland, hence, when Poles emigrate to Scotland, they should be required to learn English within a prescribed time period. Were Scots to emigrate to Poland, I would advise the Poles to require that Scots learn Polish within a similar time period.

It just makes sense.

The stats in the USA prove that immigrants which learn English achieve superior economic rise compared to their non-English speaking peers. This fact in and of itself proves the efficacy of learning the mother tongue of whichever country to which you emigrate.

Lastly, when ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) arrested illegal workers at a meat packing plant back East, there was a line of American workers that went around the plant, which were there to apply for those jobs.

Illegal workers get paid pittance, are treated badly, are often 'blackmailed' into doing things to keep their jobs, and if injured, receive little or no medical aid.

It is all linked together Calum.

Cheers from the Rockies
22

Calum Crubag,

17/04/2008 09:21:30
Neanderthal - i bet the immigrants speak better English than you write here. Go and learn your precious tongue boyo...

As to what you said re. 'British' languages. 'British' refers to the Celtic Britons who once occupied these isles. Brythonnic survives today as Welsh and Cornish with Breton in France. The Goidelic or 'Q-Celtic' branch survives in Irish, Scottish and Manx Gaelic. English itself in comparison is an 'immigrant' tongue, as it is in the US. Unless of course you are a native American who has volunatarily chosen to speak it?
23

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 17/04/2008 09:45:54
Hello again Calum,

Well, I tried. You seem to be a Nationalist without any common sense, nor courtesy, nor understanding beyond your blindered biases.

Have at it all you desire: logic, rational debate, and empirical evidence seem to escape your grasp.

Yes, I am part American Indian: Cherokee to be exact. My great-granddad was a Breed, my Gramm a quarter. My grandad was near a Breed Choctaw, though he was my granddad by marriage, so I've no Choctaw in me.
Being that my Grandparents raised me, and them being from Oklahoma and Texas originally, I was raised with both an Indian and Southern Mindset: FACTS move me, not personal opinion (which is utterly useless outside of sunsets, art, music, and other such subjective matters).

Linguistics is always an interesting subject, but the issue concerning linguistics within the current debate, pertains to CURRENT LANGUAGES, and more particularly, MOST WIDELY USED LANGUAGE in Great Britain.

Were you able to read the capped words more clearly there Calum? You seem to be unable to discern cultural heritage issues from CURRENT political issues; the two often intertwine, but NOT within the debate concerning the article; no matter how much you wish it were the case.

I've stated before that I'm for public funding of Gaelic (Scottish variety) Classes in public schools, but on a VOLUNTARY basis: no forced classes for students. Why? Modern businesses use ENGLISH as the 'lingua franca' to make money with their international counterparts: Scots talking to Chinese, Germans, French, Brazilians, Japanese, Finns, Slovenians, Mongolians, et al, in what language? Yes, you guessed it: ENGLISH.

You may not like it that way, but that's the FACT of the matter Calum, so get used to it.

I would add that when Scotland does become an Independent State (and I hope it does), Scottish businesses will STILL have to do business in ENGLISH, that is, if they want to make money, grow their businesses, and create jobs.

Again, those ar
24

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 17/04/2008 10:38:46
Calum CONT,

Again, those are/will be the FACTS Calum, no matter how much you wish it were otherwise.

Shed your blinders Calum and deal with reality the way it is, NOT the way you wish it were.

Cheers from the Rockies
25

amberlady,

Inverness 06/05/2008 12:40:50
Whilst I agree and understand many of the comments which have been said about the coming of Polish immigrants to the Highlands and especially Inverness most of the blame for the problem lies you have to agree with the British Government or local governments in particular.
They opened their doors to Poland when they joined the EU, I was in Poland and witnessed for myself the advertising on TV and Posters, come to the U.K. for better life, jobs etc. They must have known what would happen if they offered them this opportunity.
Yes many Polish people would agree that their fellow countrymen packed up and came without being properly prepared, with language or any fundamental needs, some had very little money, others sold up with the hope of starting a new life.
When local MP's came to me asking if I would vote for them in the elections, I asked them "what did you or the government do to prepare for the Poles coming to the area" they said "nothing", "as we did not know what they would need until they arrived". It took them over a year with mine and other peoples help to make the first pack of useful information, ie where to go for english classes, how to find a job, registration for doctors, hospitals, dentists. Accommodation did not even enter their heads.
Stupid or shortsighted you may think of the Poles, but really they came in answer to a call from the Government and our Government could have made so much more of the opportunities open to them, such as the many degree students and well educated Poles who are all trained in at least one skill.
In Poland you do not leave school without at least one qualification - many students who go right through to University leave education at 25 years old, they come out as Doctors, Lawyers, Social Workers. The ones who leave education by the age of 20 years are at the very least a builder, mechanic, architect, I.T. specialist, they all have diplomas or certificates.
Poles are not by any shape or form stupid, they are hard wor
26

amberlady,

Inverness 06/05/2008 12:49:44
They came here for a better life, so they could earn money to give their families a better life, for a great many this has not been the case.
We have in the U.K. over 150 vacancies for Social Workers and because cutting through the red tape has been such a problem, these Poles who were fully qualified and were working as carers in nursing homes Continued from the above comments:
have got fed up and gone home or to another country, as the money was no better that they were getting in Poland for using their skills. Also the working conditions for carers in most nursing homes is apalling! I have heard from many people that they were working 6 days a week, 12 hour shifts and earning £8,000. Maybe you understand why British people will not do this work!
From a Scottish/Pole and proud of it!

 

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