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UK organ donor deal closer

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Published Date:
25 November 2007
PLANS for a radical overhaul of organ donation laws which could save the lives of up to 500 Scots every year have taken a major step forward following the first formal talks between senior health officials from Scotland and England.
UK Health Secretary Alan Johnson is now "sympathetic" to the idea of a change in the law to an opt-out system of presumed consent, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.

This would allow doctors to take organs for transplantation unless relatives specifically objected and drive up donation rates towards those already commonplace in other European countries.

Officials representing Scotland's Cabinet Secretary for Health, Nicola Sturgeon, and Johnson met last week in London to discuss pushing ahead with a change in the law. Scotland on Sunday is currently campaigning for the presumed consent system to be adopted.

The officials met to proceed with the first stage, which will involve a group of experts examining how presumed consent could be introduced in Britain. Recommendations will then be made to ministers.

The experts, a subgroup of the Organ Donation Taskforce, have been asked to consider the views of doctors and religious groups before making their recommendations.

Changing the law could save hundreds of Scots who currently die waiting for transplants.

The move will go ahead on a UK-wide basis because organs are donated and received across the UK.

A source close to Sturgeon said last night: "It is happening at an official level and we are moving ahead with this process with a degree of sympathy on both sides. But Nicola is keen that there is a broad public debate on this issue."

Under the system of presumed consent, which has growing support from the public and politicians, organs can be taken for transplantation unless the person registers their desire to 'opt out'.

Relatives would still be consulted in case they felt that the patient may have objected to donation or would themselves be particularly distressed by the removal of organs.

The presumed consent system marks a major change to the current law under which medical staff have to ask relatives if they agree to their relatives' organs being used. It is aimed at ensuring that everyone who would wish to become an organ donor can do so.

According to a recent YouGov survey for the British Medical Association, 74% of Scots believe the UK should move to a system of presumed consent.

Although 79% of Scots would want to donate organs, fewer than 25% are on the organ donor register.

There are currently 7,575 patients waiting for transplants in the UK and the list is growing.

A presumed consent system already operates in a number of other countries including Spain, where organ donation rates are 33.6 organs per million compared with just 13 organs per million in the UK.

Last night, Labour MSP George Foulkes, who has put forward a private members' bill calling for presumed consent, welcomed the official meeting. He said: "I am delighted with the way things are going. Step by step we are getting more and more people on side."

The full article contains 520 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 24 November 2007 9:35 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Organ donation
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/11/2007 01:12:46

#1. Chairman Gordon,
I will be 'watching-my-back' and my family!
'Trigger-Happy-Doctors', on the loose!
'Knock, Knock'!!
'Who's there'?
'Jekyll'
'Jekyll Who'?
'Jekyll' ya better, Bl**** Hide'!!

2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/11/2007 01:44:00

'Flower-Power', 'Vietnam', 'Women's Rights'
People used to 'STAND-UP-AND-BE-COUNTED'...
NOT NOW!
Now we are all 'Mummy's Boys/Girls'
YES Sir, 'THREE-BAGS-FULL-SIR'
JUST, CUT MY HEED OFF, WHY DONT YOU!
..
'Logan's-Run' remember that TV series?
'Google it', if you don't!
We are coming to this shortly, I will be a fighter, because unlike the majority, I am NOT prepared to be 'Walked-Over' or 'Brainwashed'!!!!!!!!!!!!

3

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/11/2007 01:45:19

#3. Chairman Gordon, #4 was a reply for you, oop's

4

caraid_alba,

Scotland 25/11/2007 02:40:25

i would be second to opt out

5

Guga II,

Rockall 25/11/2007 05:29:18

If, as the Hootsmon implies, there is growing support for government body snatching, then presumably all those who support it are already organ donors. That being so, then there must be a substantial number, so why do the government need to continue with their body snatching proposal?

However, if this is not the case, that means the Hootsmon and, presumably the Scottish and English governments are liars, and their attitude to stealing body parts is nothing less than totalitarian control freakery.

What right does any government have to steal people's body parts, unless they opt out? If someone dies whilst travelling away from home, how will they know if they have opted out? They can't leave it for too long to check up, especially at weekends as there are never any civil servants or even doctors around then. Are they just going to steal the body parts on the off chance that the person hasn't opted out?

What about the attitude of some doctors to this proposal? Will there be an upsurge in the number of people they fail to resuscitate on the chance that they can get their hands on some organs?

The whole thing stinks, and is an affront to democracy. Again, if they are so sure of their support, put it to the people in a referendum. I know that is breaking with tradition in this country, as that would signify that we were living in a democracy rather than a totalitarian police state.

I will be opting out as a matter of principle, as I object to fascism and totalitarianism.

6

nabodican,

Skye 25/11/2007 08:42:47

I have carried a donor card for over 20 years but I will opt out if this body snatching becomes law.

7

thinking,

Scotland 25/11/2007 09:01:11

Are we going to be given a say in this or is it another of those laws that will be pushed through because it's 'PC'?

8

terry osser,

london 25/11/2007 09:13:43

all should opt out. there will be targets and lives will be sacrificed to achieve the targets.

in england prior to smoking ban we were assured that pubs would not suffer as non-smokers would flood into smoke free pubs. has not happened and many traditional pubs are closing. the ban was never necessary and was a stater for more and more state control from a gove than is institutionally inept

9

terry osser,

london 25/11/2007 09:14:33

"government that " sorry

10

whatsyourname,

25/11/2007 09:31:39

You have to vote against this and you should really look at this site.http://www.libertyforlife.com/jail-police/us_concentratio...

11

Boy Wonder,

25/11/2007 09:45:20

People will opt out because it will be seen as body snatching ...

This is why the cloning of body organs must continue!

12

FreeAethist,

25/11/2007 09:46:35

How easy it would be for medical staff to do little to check organ donor status of an individual... take first, gee, apologise later if anyone complains on behalf of the hapless (helpless) donor. Its the slippery slope down a path where an individual will have NO rights in regard to their own bodies, being seen as a resource (property) of the state. By all means have an opt in system- at least that involves free choice.

13

whatsyourname,

25/11/2007 10:11:51

#14 you are sick

14

McMom,

CALIFORNIA, USA 25/11/2007 10:52:37

ALL THIS DUST UP FOR NOTHING. IN TEN YEARS OR LESS THEY WILL BE ABLE TO GROW ANY ORGAN INSIDE A HOST FROM STEM CELLS FROM A PIECE OF SKIN. NO MORE TALK ABOUT DONATIONS, OR THE SANCTITY OF UMBILICAL CORDS AND GROWING FETUSES IN PETRI DISHES FROM THE RIGHT TO LIFE CROWD. GRAB A SHEEP, GROW AN ORGAN. PRESTO. ONE TRANSPLANT LIVER COMING UP.

15

Duke,

25/11/2007 10:52:37

#10 I'm with you on this one. I've carried a Donor card for years, but I too will opt out if this becomes law.

16

Sue (granddaughter of a Glaswegian engineer),

Twyford 25/11/2007 10:56:06

They can't do this to me - I have already bequeathed my dead body to medical research to make sure nobody else gets this awful incurable illness I have. I have already signed a witnessed contract with the research organisation who asked me to do it. How can the government just decide all such contracts are now niull and void?
What will doctors train on if all bodies are to be recycled at source? What will they be able to study the effects of disease for future generations from?

They just have not thought this through.

17

Boy Wonder,

25/11/2007 11:34:32

#17. Yes I am ... I have a heavy cold today. But do you have a counterproposal?

18

Boy Wonder,

25/11/2007 13:14:04

#22. No jennifer. It's so far over the counter, you'd get lost looking for it. Probably because it got washed with Chuck's brain!

19

Phyl,

Edinburgh 25/11/2007 13:27:34

What a load of old rubbish many posters are spouting. 'Bodysnatching'. Relating it to Jekkyl and Hyde. Get over yourself.

What is the true 'BS', #1, is this automatic presumption that some sort of mystical special right over what happens to your body extends beyond death. You no longer need it anymore. It's waste - and therefore like everything else should be recycled! Surely, therefore, if society has a need to reuse any perfectly good organs that may be going to waste in the discarded carcass - then society can bloody well take them and put them to use! There is no longer any 'you' to care! Equally, any family members who don't like the idea should realise that it's better to save some other family the heartbreak they are feeling than hold onto some silly idea of their passed loved one 'remaining pristine' or whatever. They are dead. Their body will either be stuck in the ground and will decompose, rot, and eventually be eaten by worms - or they will have it burnt!

If you really must insist on a ridiculous mystism that it somehow 'matters' to you what happens to your body after you are dead, and think that part of your body living on while the rest of you is burnt/rotted would be bad, within that, then you can register your wish to opt out. So what is the problem?

Every year hundreds die for want of transplants, while every year thousands of selfish people who have not bothered registering with the Donor scheme (even if they ARE happy to be a Donor) die and waste the organs that could have saved other lives.

This scheme is far overdue. All the neer do wells that say it 'hasn't been thought through - well how about YOU get involved in consultation on it and make sure that it IS thought through and they get the procedures and policies around it right? It's up to each of us to get involved if we want to be happy with the result, in public policy matters. Do you really think that hospitals wouldn't make DAMN sure they were OK to take the org

20

Charles Linskaill,

With the wife waiting for food 25/11/2007 14:17:32

#23. BW, dinnie get smart with me, whats wrong with mi brain?

21

Boy Wonder,

25/11/2007 15:03:42

#26. You tell us Charles ... you're the one who mentioned brainwashing! But I do have some lingering suspicions! :D

22

Charles Linskaill,

DYW..scranned the lot in two mins flat!! 25/11/2007 16:47:06

Look BW, if your 'GW' (girl wonder) made you live in a hoose, full of 'PINK' suff, how would deal with this 'brainwashing'? and that food we were waiting on, she 'cleared the plate', I couldn't manage even half!
IS LIFE WORTH LIVING?? SHOULD I END IT ALL?
Everyone can have my 'Bits'!!!
Keep them happy for all of 5minutes!

23

Charles Linskaill,

DYW..scranned the lot in two mins flat!! 25/11/2007 16:49:41

GOD you would think I starve her!

24

Boy Wonder,

25/11/2007 19:20:55

One hopes for your sake, she's eating for two, Charles! Either that or DYW is going go end up FYW!!

25

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/11/2007 19:38:14

"FYW" yes BW, I do think that sometimes, but she's 'nae-bad' all day break'y at Sainsbury's, fatty food, but she wont eat nought else now.
"she's eating for two"... I wish!! but you never know, stranger things can happen!
December we start the IVF, cant be fat for that! or ye get telt!
Would they remove 'Fat-Peoples' organs??
Good excuse to eat and be, 'merry-fat' so you don't get,
Mr Jekyll following you around, waiting for ye ta drop 'deed'
'Knock-Knock'!
'Who's There'?
'Me'!
'Me Who'?
'Me want your Bits'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

26

Gordon McShean,

Palmerston North, NZ 25/11/2007 21:40:00

I'm with #24 on this. And I'm absoutely bloody amazed at all you silly twits who seem to think your bodies - after you kick the bucket - will have any value to yourselves or your family. The dead body's only utility is to assist others in need of bits. You all seem to have some weird idea that you'll need it in heaven or hell (and considering your compassionate statements, it is likely to be the latter). I got my first donated tissue graft way back in 1966 (I'd been given 3 months to live). As they say, wake up and smell the coffee... it could be you needing a spare part next time!

27

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/11/2007 23:01:17

#33. Chairman Gordon,
"abolition of freedom of choice"
'NO' Truer words than these have been spoken in a very long time as these!
I 'TELL-YOU-WHAT'?......its NOT far away!
....
I have NO problem with Organ Donation, but I do NOT want to be told, that my child, wife, brother, sister, that was in hospital and had just died, had all their Organs Removed, without first being asked or informed, even before I said my 'last-goodbye's to them.
It IS Immoral and 'not-on' in my Books!
And as far as the "Trigger-happy-Doctors' go, I know I joked about this, but with reason!
The scenario below, you may not believe,
But 'mark-my-words' it has and DOES happen!
....
Patient, just admitted to hospital (ill life threatening)
Doctor; gives life support!
Patient; stabilises!
Patient; looked after by nurse!
Patient; relapses!
Nurse; sends out, for 'crash-team'!
Doctor; (stressed) Does his/her best to revive, Patient!
Patient; not responding well to treatment given!
Doctor; calls for a second opinion!
Doctor2; This Patient, don't waste anymore time!
Doctor2; Thoughts! (I have people waiting Organs)
Doctor; will we give up?
Doctor2; you better Bl**** believe we are giving up!
Patient; Dies!!!
....
Stressed Doctor did not give his/her best, a little more thought, time, would have saved this Patient!
Doctor2; had only Organ Transfer on their mind!
....
HENCE, THIS IS ONE OF THE OBJECTIONS THIS IS ABOUT!!

28

mmcest,

glasgow 25/11/2007 23:42:37

i know you would all change your mind about objecting to this scheme if you or your family were diagnosed with a condition that required an organ.

don't think it can't happen. it happens in the blink
of an eye. it happened to me last year.

29

whatsyourname,

25/11/2007 23:44:48

# 21 boywonder yes I do people are going to have to say NO I read all the comments and it seems nobody is getting what is really going on in our world I would like people to look at these sites and get back to mem http://www.libertyforlife.com/jail-police/us_concentratio...

30

whatsyourname,

25/11/2007 23:49:53

Hope your cold gets better are you sure its a cold look at this site http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI

31

whatsyourname,

26/11/2007 00:06:14

# 34 well said, look at the sites I put up?

32

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 26/11/2007 00:14:20

#38. whatsyourname,
I did take a look, they are very good!!
Problem is that, People are Soo 'Brainwashed' by the State, they wouldn't believe it!
Its like living in, 'Gah-Gah' World these Days!

33

mmcest,

glasgow 26/11/2007 00:32:01

39.
you opt out if you dont want to
and even if you haven't your relatives still have
the last word

34

HM,

Argyll 26/11/2007 09:38:55

I think that in principle this is long past due. Obviously there is a lot of issues to be sorted out to actually see this happen in reality, but I think its a brilliant idea. AS #41 says, you have the option and then so too do your next of kin. I've been on the donors register for years and have made sure my family know my wishes, but I know I am in the minority. Like those who refuse to Give Blood for no medical reason - I think it is a selfish attitude which many only appreciate the consequences of when one of their own needs a transfusion/organ. We have the medical know how and opportunity to save lives, so why aren't we?!

35

Greenloaning view,

Belfast in 1971 Europa Hotel 26/11/2007 10:34:27

38 + 40
Also read all comments and visited website as suggested.

Same stuff happened in 1971 in NI with undercover agents and misinformation.

Does no-one remember the internment camps?

At the time I was saddened to have my illusions that UK was "free" or at least much much better than regimes like USSR.

Seems we have learnt very little as a nation.

No doubt this site will be monitored and perhaps I will receive a knock at the door!

36

,

30/11/2007 06:11:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

bradders1888,

15/01/2008 18:38:32
Publis consultation,what bull when they make the decision public opinion will be ignored with a cover up story saying that the public agreed.You know its true!!
38

bradders1888,

fie 15/01/2008 18:39:30
Sorry public consultation that should be.

 

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