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Why we all pay the hidden costs of 'free' wind-generated electricity



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Published Date: 10 January 2008
Lesley Riddoch says: "Some people hate wind farms. I have met few of them and am far more aghast at the recent hike in energy prices" (Opinion, 7 January).
The wind may be clean and free, but wind-generated electricity fed into the grid is neither because of the power station back-up required for such an unreliable source. Back-up is required because coal-fired stations cannot be rapidly adjusted to sui
t wind variation. Since there is no fossil displacement there are costs, monetary and in emissions. These costs are ignored in the claims of wind farm companies.

Government supports in the form of the Renewable Obligation and the Climate Change Levy ensure wind farm electricity sells for less than other generation. These subsidies are paid for by the consumer and play a part in recent price increases.

A public accounts committee report in 2005 claimed British taxpayers would subsidise wind farms by £6.5 billion by 2010 and that the Renewables Obligation would add £1 billion a year to electricity prices by then. The bill for renewable sources of energy will continue to soar after that, rising to £12.5 billion by 2015.

Edward Leigh, the committee chairman, said: "Consumers are providing a massive subsidy to the renewables industry, but, unlike public expenditure, this subsidy does not receive annual scrutiny by parliament. This is unacceptable."

A R NELSON
Scarletmuir
Lanark


In the face of increasing evidence of measurable increase in levels of carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere and observable melting of the polar ice caps, Robert Pate tells us (Letters, 7 January) that the Russian Academy of Science forecasts a period of global cooling. The billions spent trying to prevent global warming have evidently been wasted. This will be good news for President George Bush and the governments of India and China.

Unfortunately, global warming, associated with massive combustion of diminishing fossil fuel reserves, is only one of many environmental problems linked to the population boom.

There is also a wide range of pollution problems involving waste disposal, including the irretrievable dispersion of essential metals in the environment. Our civilisation is running short of essential metals because they end up as environmental contaminants.

(DR) DAVID PURVES
Strathalmond Road
Edinburgh


The idea that nuclear power operators must "pay the price for nuclear energy" is being reported (8 January) as if it were an innovative imposition. Yet British Energy already incorporates an allowance in its operating cost to help pay for decommissioning its stations. In this way, a fund will be available to help pay for the ultimate safe disposal of stations and their waste.

This is not entirely fair on British Energy, which inherited the stations from the state without any transfer of the funds built up by the state for decommissioning. So in this case, the state should share the responsibility.

STEUART CAMPBELL
Dovecot Loan
Edinburgh


What is green about expanding Glasgow and Edinburgh airports? What is green about a new Forth road bridge? Especially as the government must know – it has plenty of expert advisers – that our oil and gas supplies will be running out in 10-15 years?

Why ask us to leave the car at home one day a week? What drop in what ocean is that compared to an increase in flights and road traffic?

RUTH MOROZZO
Minto Place
Hawick




The full article contains 569 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 January 2008 8:14 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 09:29:20
'Back-up' for wind power? What about back-up for the recent failures at Torness and Hunterston and Longannet?

Also, hydro and gas stations can come on line in seconds.

Finally, the wind is always blowing somewhere in the UK; all we need is a grid able to connect power when and where it is available and needed.
2

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 10:57:33
Fred, I'm afraid that your knowledge of electrical engineering leaves a lot to be desired.

What was not mentioned in this article and which further complicates the issue is that to generate AC, the generator has to be turning at a precise speed to match the 50Hz UK supply. That is why the windmills have variable pitch blades.

If there is not enough wind, they turn too slowly and cannot be used in the grid. If they are turning too quickly they can also not be used on the grid but there are mechanisms in place to ensure that does not happen---which I won't go into here.

You suggest a grid to connect windmills when power is available. You clearly do not appreciate the things that need to be considered when taking AC generators on and off load. It is not simply a matter of throwing a switch. They need to be connected by a process known as paralleling and the load taken on and off gradually.

No power station can come online "in seconds". For a start, gas, coal and nuclear stations need to get up a head of steam before anything happens. This can take sometime. Then you have the issue of paralleling that I mentioned earlier.
3

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 11:12:42
Petrolbrain: if you knew anything about this you would know that wind generators are DC.
4

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 11:34:24
#3:

Small scale ones are DC but the large ones are AC. Check out http://www.bwea.com/energy/how.html where it clearly says that the output goes to a transformer. Transformers only work with AC.

Then check out http://www.cel-f-solar.com/howwind.php where it says that SMALL SCALE turbines connected to the grid need an inverter. Large scale ones do not as they produce AC.

The whole subject is much more complex than most people realise.
5

Martinh,

10/01/2008 14:15:01
There is an ideal site for a nuclear waste dump at Dovecot Loan.
6

Neil,

Glasgow 10/01/2008 14:56:33
I wouldn't quite agree with the headline that this is the "hidden"cost of windmills. It has been known for years. The subsidy of windmills is approaching £1 billion annually (it was one of the promises of the last Lab/Lib government to waste that much nby 2010. Coincidentally to cut Scottish income tax by 3p would cost £870 million annually.

Dr Purves letter goes off at a complete tangent. He accepts that catastrophic global warming is a scam & then leaps off with a list of other renewablist scare stories as if them being right (they largely aren't) justified promoting the warming scare anyway.

Fred you have been caught out on something in which you are clearly wrong. That, instead of accepting this & making some other point, you resort to personal atacks is typical of the eco crowd's contempt for mere facts.
7

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 15:51:58
3. From the BWEA website:

Pumped storage. The pumped storage systems at Dinorwig and Ffestiniog can respond within 15 seconds or so and can provide a maximum of 2160MW.
8

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 15:53:54
From SSE website:

One of the important benefits of hydro power is that it can be switched on very quickly to meet sudden increases in the demand for electricity. Under the right conditions, Glendoe will be able to reach full output in just 30 seconds.
9

Neil,

Glasgow 10/01/2008 16:17:19
Which proves your claim about DC & how it allegedly works at even the lowest wind speed exactly how?
10

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 16:45:19
Fred,

Ready my post again. Also read up on electrical theory and mechanical engineering. and whilst you're about it, pick up a decent reference book on power generation and read that too.

That way you won't quote things out of context. The quotes you have given apply to a power station that is ALREADY ON LINE. Initially, the discussion was about power stations that are OFF LINE and need to be brought ON LINE. There is a big difference, even with hydro-electric power.

If Glendoe already has it's generators running, connected to the grid and syncrhonised then it can respond in 30 seconds. If they are static, it takes a lot longer.
11

Steve,

Bo'ness 10/01/2008 20:48:09
Ruth, ya midden!
..If people cant cross the Forth via a suitable bridge, they will drive 50 more miles to get around it. How environmentall friendly is that?
12

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 11/01/2008 08:00:56
The load factor for coal and nuclear is 65-85%; for wind it is 25-40%. For wind penetration up to around 20%, a reasonable level, the capacity credit of wind energy is about the same as the installed capacity multiplied by the load factor. In other words if there is 100 MW of wind energy installed in the country, then this can be relied upon to replace (or avoid the need to build) 30 MW of thermal or nuclear generation capacity.

 

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