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Speed cameras: Real life-savers not hidden cash raisers



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Published Date: 16 April 2008
Research shows speed camera fines are falling, but does that really mean we're slowing down and making our roads safer, asks Chris Marshall.
THEY rank alongside parking attendants and traffic jams in the list of motorists' pet hates. Speed cameras have been lambasted as "hidden traps" sprung on unsuspecting drivers and as "cash cows" designed to raise extra taxes rather than save lives.

But now the number of fines being dished out in the Lothians is falling – and research even suggests most of us approve of having them dotted along our roadsides.

The Lothian and Borders Safety Camera Partnership which operates the region's 119 fixed and mobile speed cameras believes they are making our roads safer, and that most motorists recognise the fact.

There are major doubts, though, about how much our behaviour has really changed. Growing familiarity with the positions of cameras, coupled with the increasing use of satnav systems to alert drivers to their looming presence, has been blamed for the emergence of "camera surfing" – where drivers simply slow down for cameras then speed up again straight after.

The answer to this may be staring drivers in the face whenever they drive on the city bypass between the Old Craighall and Sheriffhall roundabouts.

There, for a full kilometre, lines of cars uniformly slow to the 40mph limit. The average-speed camera – which records vehicles at either end of a stretch of road and checks how long it took to cover the distance – are seen as the way forward.

Victoria Edmond, a spokeswoman for the Lothian and Borders Safety Camera Partnership, says: "I do think that more and more people are becoming aware of safety cameras and are in support of them.

"You're always going to get a hardcore of drivers who will drive as they want, and we'll never win them over. But people are much more aware of where the cameras are now and stick to the speed limit."

She conceded many drivers simply slowed down to avoid detection. "It's not ideal. I think in the future we might see more average-speed cameras. But if we can make people slow down where there has been a history of collisions, then it's all for the greater good," she said.

"I believe cameras save lives. There are people whose lives have been terribly affected by speeding vehicles, so it's really important that we stick to the speed limit."

Research carried out by the partnership last month showed 83 per cent of Edinburgh drivers were in favour of the cameras.

That comes at a time when the number of fines have fallen by more than a quarter in two years to around 30,000 last year.

Steve Stradling, a professor of transport psychology at Napier University's transport research institute, said while drivers were slowing down in the city centre, the same could not be said for motorways and dual carriageways.

He said: "The number of drivers exceeding the 30mph speed limit by five mph has reduced from a third to under a fifth from 2000 to 2006."

It does appear, not surprisingly, that as drivers are clocking up more points on their licences, they do begin to worry more about being banned and they do slow down – at least around areas where there are cameras.

However, Bruce Young, Lothian and Borders co-ordinator of the Association of British Drivers, dismissed the idea that the number of speeding fines were falling because motorists were changing their ways. "I totally disagree with that," he said.

"All across the country the camera partnerships are showing less activity. They used to be a great money-making proposition because they kept the money they made from fines. Now the money goes to the Treasury, so the incentive has gone.

"The idea that speed kills is a fallacy. Drivers exceeding the limit are a very small factor in road accidents. It's more about inappropriate speed – where the driver doesn't pay attention to the road conditions."

But all in all, the figures do appear to be stacking up in favour of the camera operators.

It looks as though we'll need to get used to those roadside camera boxes, as well as those uniform queues of obedient motorists driving under the watchful eye of the average-speed cameras.





The full article contains 720 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 16 April 2008 10:00 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Transport
 
1

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 16/04/2008 12:38:50
Yet more rubbish from the Association of British Boy Racers I see.
First they moan about too many speeding tickets, now they moan there are not enough !
2

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 16/04/2008 13:05:33
#1: The ABD are not moaning that there are less fines being issued. Read it again.

The underlying dangers of speed cameras are not fully explained here. The danger they pose is nothing to do with sat-navs, people becoming used to their position or even money making.

The real danger lies in the fact that the propaganda surrounding them leads people to believe that provided they are driving within the speed limit, they are automatically safe. They are falsely being led to believe that speed of travel is of paramount importance in safe driving. It is not. It is a factor determined by the consideration of other factors and to attach an artificial level of importance to it distorts the though process and makes the driver less able to deal with real hazards.

The crash statistics bear this out. Ever since they went mad with speed cameras, the road casualty figures have been steadily worsening and thereby costing hundreds if not thousands a year---all because the government want to make a bit of cash. Is that acceptable? No.

BTW: The way round SPECS cameras is to swap lanes between each camera. Your speed doesn't even get recorded if you do that!
3

#1GGTTH,

16/04/2008 13:08:29
Couldnt care less I know where they all are I can slow down to 30 in plenty time and accelerate away once I have passed them. Easy!
4

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 16/04/2008 13:09:50
And the hidden dangers of average speed cameras do not evn bear thinking about. They promote bunching of traffic and as such, if something went wrong, a lot more vehicles would be involved in the resultant crash.

I personally, prefer not to drive alongside other vehicles at a constant speed for this very reason. It is ingerently hazardous and advanced driving courses will tel you to specifically avoid doing this if at all possible.

So in effect, average speed cameras promote hazardous driving techniques.
5

Bill Whitehead,

16/04/2008 13:30:44
There you go, it's all here.

They're aware there is a hardcore, persistant, determinded group of drivers who duck the system, but they're going to continue using cameras anyway, because they do make some money and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than putting real police officers back on the road.

More deployment of Specs? at £200,000 a go? yeah sure, they're going to pay for themselves aren't they. If convictions have already dropped off by 25% I think they should be heeding the message that cameras don't and have never worked, are not the economical alternative and aren't anything like the big brother concept they thought they were, unless they're average speed cameras on a captive enviroment like a motorway of dual carriage way with no exits, but even the partnerships acknowledge that motorways are the safest of all Britains roads.

What a pile of garbage, it's just one enormous embarressing mess.
6

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 16/04/2008 13:31:26
"It looks as though we'll need to get used to those roadside camera boxes, as well as those uniform queues of obedient motorists driving under the watchful eye of the average-speed cameras."

What a sickening thought.

Especially when something happens up ahead, and they all pile into one another becaues they are so engulfed in their pink and fluffy world they haven't bothered to actually look where they are going.

Anyway, SPECs doesn't work on motorbikes....
7

Bruce Young,

16/04/2008 13:44:27
Road Raga (1) - My quote lost something in translation. What I actually said was that the drop in fines was due to the reduction in operation of speed cameras throughout the UK both because the Treasury was taking the proceeds now, whereas originally the camera partnerships were able to pocket the fines and also because the mobile cameras were discredited - the camera van LTI 20/20 laser camera can show a brick wall "travelling" at over 20mph and a Kent police officer is suspended pending investigation of allegations that he was manipulating the camera to increase the speed reading. See http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/04/07/cops-rig-road-trap-89520-20375199/

I also made the point that acording to Department for Transport figures, only about 7% of serious accidents were caused by exceeding the speed limit and slightly more by inappropriate speed for the conditions (but within the speed limit and therefore undetectable by speed cameras)BUT that about one third were caused by inadequate driver observation and inappropriate response to emerging risks (careless driving), which speed cameras cannot police. I suggested that the answer was more specialist traffic police on the roads. When they stop a driver, they can detect not only speeding but disqualified, uninsured, drunk, drugged and sheer reckless drivers.

This is scarcely the view of a "boy racer", surely!

As Alternative Fuel (2) said, Britain used to have the safest roads in Europe and accident rates were falling, mainly due to improved safety in car design, until the current obsession with speed cameras when the improvement stopped.

I am also tired of the unsupported propaganda from camera partnerships that "Research ... last month showed 83 per cent of Edinburgh drivers were in favour of the cameras." I shall be interested to see how convincing this research is! We tend to be polite and call this kind of statement "spin".

And the late Paul Smith, founder of SafeSpeed, calculated
8

Bruce Young,

16/04/2008 13:45:00
And the late Paul Smith, founder of SafeSpeed, calculated that because speed cameras may be sited only where there have been at least two accidents in the last three years (regardless of cause) AND where more than 60% of traffic exceeded the limit (by even 1mph) during a measured period, cameras could be placed only where it was safe to exceed the posted limit on the basis that most people drive at a speed which they judge to be safe. So if 60% of drivers are exceeding the speed limit and only two or three accidents happen, and these are probably not caused by excessive speed, how can it help road safety to enforce the limit at that safe location? Conversely, he argued that where it is dangerous to exceed the limit, very few drivers do and the 60% test fails, meaning that cameras cannot be placed there, where it is dangerous to exceed the limit.

And they still claim that speed cameras are about road safety not revenue? Or now, not about job preservation?
9

NorT,

Edinburgh 16/04/2008 13:57:14
It says "Research carried out by the partnership last month showed 83 per cent of Edinburgh drivers were in favour of the cameras."
I would like to see the research figures - knowing the police they have been massaged to suit the case.How big was the sample - I thinbk we should be told. I see an FOI coming on. There is nothing on their websiteabout this research. In fact the latest news is sadly well out of date telling us about things that happened several months ago or even last year. That is history not latest news.
10

Hmm ...,

16/04/2008 14:05:10
... so "the cameras save lives". Just how can this be true when the rules prevent them being placed where it is dangerous to exceed the speed limit, when the UK's road death rate has stopping falling and speed camera partnership statistics make no provision for regression to the mean, to take credit for a natural drop in accidents following an exceptional incidence.

Just how can "cameras save lives" in that case? Is this indeed just so much spin? And has Chris Marshall simply swallowed the blarney?
11

Bruce Young,

16/04/2008 14:08:31
And, Alternative Fuel, if you are not already a member of the Association of British Drivers, I would suggest that you think about joining - see www.abd.org.uk
12

Bruce Young,

16/04/2008 14:18:56
NorT (8) - I agree. As well as the sample selection, I would also like to see the questions asked - like "Do you think we should keep reducing road deaths with speed cameras, which are proven to save lives?" - despite the FACT that this has not been proven to be the case.

Just as the old claim "accidents have fallen by 10% at camera sites" ignores the fact that regression to the mean would have meant fewer accidents even without a camera!

Last year L&B camera partnership made that claim and FoI information revealed that at a number of Lothian & Border sites, a fall from three to two accidents gave a 33% reduction! At some sites, the accident rate had actually increased!
13

Padraig,

16/04/2008 15:10:58
So Victoria Edmond, a spokeswoman for the Lothian and Borders Safety Camera Partnership, says: "...I believe cameras save lives. There are people whose lives have been terribly affected by speeding vehicles, so it's really important that we stick to the speed limit."

"I believe" - is ths an act of faith?

And "There are people whose lives have been terribly affected by speeding vehicles, so it's really important that we stick to the speed limit."

Is this anything to do with road safety or are we setting road safety policy now on the basis of sympathy for relatives?

Is this Victoria just a PR girl or is she supposed to know about road safety? No sign of it here, I am sorry to say!
14

Padraig,

16/04/2008 15:18:17
"Research carried out by the partnership last month showed 83 per cent of Edinburgh drivers were in favour of the cameras."
Research carried out by me within the last few minutes indicates that only one out of 13 comments on this article is in favour of speed cameras - and that one was obviously a bigot who equates "drivers" with "boy racers"!

Does this indicate a change in public opinion or is it just an indication that the camera partnership's research is spurious to say the least?

I suspect that the situation is that people not employed by a speed camera partnership (or as reporters) are almost unanimously opposed to speed cameras.
15

Padraig,

16/04/2008 15:22:48
And in itself, would seem to rubbish the "85% in favour" claim made by the speed camera partnership!
16

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 16/04/2008 16:22:11
I know how you could get close to zero people in favour of cameras in a survey---only target people who have recently been banned under totting up for speeding or those who have been done within the past few weeks.

I daresay that there are similar tactics that could be used to swing the results the other way. This "survey" is totally meaningless and it sounds as though it is completely bogus and is the result of someone deluding themselves and making assumptions.

This thread bears me out. When we discuss smoking here, there seems to be no shortage of opinions expressed on both sides. Where are some of the 85% who think that cameras are a good idea? Why are they not putting forward arguments in favour of them?

Could it be that they simply don't exist?
17

Redroc,

Fife 16/04/2008 16:53:35
In Fife, Police road accident statistics record that 6% of KSI (Killed or Seriously Injured) accidents are attributable to speed. I'll repeat that - 6%. The vast majority of accidents are due to driver error, not excessive speed.

If you listen to the so called "safety" partnerships you would get the impression that speed is the cause of all accidents when in reality this is rarely the case. The truth is it is easy to record if a vehicle is exceeding the speed limit, and profitable to fine those motorists. It is not so easy to address the real cause of accidents - careless and bad driving.

I would treat any statistics issued by any "safety" partnership with a large pinch of salt, they have to attempt to justify their existence in the face of the real evidence.
18

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 16/04/2008 17:18:52
#17:

Correct!

If you look at the DfT's own website, it lists the top ten causes of crashes. Speed of travel does not even make the top ten.

And these are exactly the same people who are chanting (or sponsoring the chanting of) the "speed kills" mantra. Who are they trying to kid?
19

me150,

16/04/2008 17:38:15
There should be cameras on every street. Who would speed then? only the foolish!!!
20

Dileas,

16/04/2008 18:35:32
Me150 (19) said "There should be cameras on every street. Who would speed then? only the foolish!!!"

Well that's the purpose and effect of introducing SPECS average speed cameras in towns!

And the intention is to introduce 20mph speed limits in "most" roads in town, (Red Ken is introducing the to London if he gets back in)so there will be an enforceable but totally impractical speed limit everywhere. What does that have to do with road safety? Or is it just to squeeze private transport off the roads? And will bus routes be restricted to 20mph as well? If so, we shall all be travelling much slower than now. And shall take much longer to get to and from work.

We really do need a change of government. And quickly!
21

Dileas,

16/04/2008 18:43:55
Interesting article in today's Daily Express - see http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/41452
22

Bill Whitehead,

16/04/2008 20:20:56
SPECS Cameras? in cities?
Wasn't everyone up in arms recently about how low the average speed of traffic in London is?

If I recall, that average speed in London is naturally well below the lowest speed limit to start with, simply because of congestion.

So, good to see our all knowing all seeing wise government thinking it through, researching it properly and spending money wisely as usual.

As they say down in Cornwall, Makes I laugh it does!
23

Bill Whitehead,

16/04/2008 20:25:44
And Wi Fi cameras? ..in a city?

Oh well, it saves the arsonists burning them when you can just overwhealm the wi fi with denial of services attacks and hack the database to take your convictions out.

I can see that being a spectacular faliure, but as they say, 'pride comes before a fall'.
24

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 16/04/2008 23:38:28
SPECS cameras would be useless in town. They are designed for stretches of road that have no junctions and where there is unlikely to be any hold-ups.

Typically, the longest stretch you could cover with SPECS in town would be about 1/4 mile. At 30mph you would cover this distance in 30 secs. If you were stopped for only 15 secs during that stretch, you could cover the remainder at anything up to 60mph without triggering a prosecution.

To install SPECS at anything like the density required in town to be able to actually enforce the 30mph limit would be horrendously expensive and it would be highly unlikely to make enough money to cover the costs in a reasonable time. In short, this idea is a stupid pipe dream from the "speed kills" brigade and fortunately, it is also one which is highly unlikely to ever come to fruition.

25

Chris W,

17/04/2008 08:18:13
If #1 'Road Raga' (Why can't you use you real name?) thinks Mr Young of the ABD is a boy racer, he should consult an optician:
http://www.jbaird.org.uk/abd/bruceprofile.html

 

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