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Religion and state should remain entirely separate



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Sam Ghibaldan broaches the role that the State should play in religion (Opinion, 12 February). Of course governments should be separated from religion, even a Muslim state like Turkey has the good sense to realise this. The role of any government should be to protect the right of every citizen to practice whatever faith they choose, subject of course to obeying the law of the land.
The question as to whether faith schools should be allowed or encouraged will not be easy to resolve.

The late Rev Martin Luther King claimed he had a dream that children of all races would walk hand in hand to the same school. I'm convinced that
if he lived in Britain today his dream would be that children of all faiths would walk hand in hand to the same school. I fail to be convinced that a society made up of segregated children will create a society of integrated adults.

JIM CARSON, Larchfield, Balerno, Midlothian

I am glad that Alistair McBay, of the National Secular Society, is opposed to segregation in education (Letters, 12 February). I wonder if this includes segregation according to class and income as well as religion? Given the criteria he espouses does this mean that those parents who have the means to send their children to private education are guilty of "apartheid"? I am also intrigued that, whilst he wants to ban parents from being able to choose to have their children educated according to the philosophy/religious outlook of their choice, he insists that all children in Scotland should be educated according to his philosophy. Just quite how this encourages diversity escapes me. Maybe I need re-educated?

DAVID A ROBERTSON, St Peter Street, Dundee

If Catholic schools practise apartheid, as Alistair McBay argues, why are so many parents, who are not Catholics, happy to send their children to them?

Incidentally, the use of the word "apartheid" is not only inappropriate but ironic. In South Africa, in the days of real apartheid, it was the Catholic schools and seminaries which broke the law.

MARY BELL, Gourlaybank, Haddington, East Lothian

To suggest in your editorial (8 February) that the provision of state funded Catholic schools is an example of aiding communities to integrate is risible.

The insistence of the Roman Catholic Church in having denominational schools in 21st century Scotland perpetuates educational apartheid and entrenched bigotry.

D ROBERTS, Andrew Crescent, Stenhousemuir, Stirlingshire





The full article contains 409 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 14 February 2008 9:28 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

zeno,

GLASGOW 15/02/2008 00:29:26
Jim Carson said: "I fail to be convinced that a society made up of segregated children will create a society of integrated adults."

Well put.

D Robert's comments are also excellent.

David Robertson said: "[Alistair McBay] insists that all children in Scotland should be educated according to his philosophy."
He said no such thing and I'm sure you're well aware that you are setting up a straw man in a poor attempt to bolster your own untenable position.

Mary Bell said: "If Catholic schools practise apartheid..."

What do you mean 'if'? They do segregate children on the grounds of the religion of their parents and do everything they can to keep them away from the other children, lest their minds be contaminated.
2

Wee Pal Joe,

15/02/2008 00:42:48
"he wants to ban parents from being able to choose to have their children educated according to the philosophy/religious outlook of their choice" (David A Robertson)

Just how many religious or philosophical groups are to get this choice - and funded by the State at that? Baptists? Sikhs? Agnostics? Socialists?
3

Dollar Tim,

Dollar 15/02/2008 07:54:20
I'm not particularly in favour of faith schools but any discussion of this is inevitably marred by it being turned into a "bash the Catholics" fest - as illustrated by #1 and #2. Perhaps they should learn why Catholic schools were needed in the first place and remember that Catholics also pay taxes to the state. By the way - before anyone accuses me of bias - I'm not even a Christian.
4

Gdgy,

dundee 15/02/2008 08:17:38
The usual suspects- Mary Bell - form the uberfacistic wing of the Catholics, DA Robertson (must be retired now as he does not use his right reverend tag)!
Of course their arguments are weak and thin - DAR argues that Mcbey insists that all children in Scotland should be educated according to HIS philosophy (I suppose he means secularism) which is errant and arrant nonsense - secularism is the lack of religion - if the parents want to instill their mumbo-jumbo into their kids they should do this at home or in their places of worship....

DAR needs to educated not re-educated.....

5

Backofthenet,

15/02/2008 08:40:40
"Perhaps they should learn why Catholic schools were needed in the first place" (3)

Are they still needed for that reason now? Is that still relevant?
6

Mikey,

15/02/2008 09:36:46
Why should we allow children's minds to be tainted with the philosophical hang ups of their parents? Surely the job of schools is to provide learning to the 'tabula rasa' and not to perpetuate the parents' philosophy?

If we have schools for one religion, why not schools for all religions? The reason that does not occur is purely historical, however that historical bias has now been eradicated.

It's time our schools moved into the 21st century and left philosophical teaching to the parents in question.
7

Dollar Tim,

Dollar 15/02/2008 09:51:34
#5 It is still relevant as so called non denomonational schools are generally in fact nothing of the kind. Do away with faith schools by all means - but keep all religion off the agenda. The same would apply to #6. If, as you say, the historical bias has now been eradicated - then all religion should be separate from schooling - as you say at the end of your post.
8

Maximus,

Roberton 15/02/2008 10:13:37
#6, Good point but surely parents have a right to send their children to schools which promote a way of thinking and faith which is in accordance with the family's?

I can see the argument for home schooling amongst faith groups being very strong. No doubt this will have objectors too.

Cannot help but think though that, as #3 highlights, as a Catholic, I pay my taxes. In doing so I also support many things I am opposed to - abortion, contraception, nuclear arms, wars, etc, etc. Surely faith schooling is a small price to pay for the non-religious to cover too.

Also, #4, I'm sure Mary will be chuckling at your comment. An uberfascist - you should meet her.

And remember, as Mary quite rightly points out, Catholic schooling and seminaries have led were others fear to tread.
9

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 10:35:45
"I fail to be convinced that a society made up of segregated children will create a society of integrated adults."

This is a great ideal, however it is not Catholic schools that are the main cause of sergregation in society, it is economic and social standing. The haves and have not's. While having no interest in the Catholic church, my days of Catholic schooling resulted in me, as a boy brought up in a tenement, mixing with people living in bungalows in the nicer part of town. While we were perhaps segregated by religion we were more intergrated in relation to social class. I for one preferred that environment to one where I would have been at school with the other local scallys.
10

Gdgy,

dundee 15/02/2008 12:18:39
#8 "Catholic schooling and seminaries have led were others fear to tread!"

Aye, child abuse.....
I think with all the furore in the world caused by religions we should be teaching our children about religion not preaching one particular flavour of god-bothering to them - let the deluded teach their own delusions to their own.....
11

Gdgy,

dndy 15/02/2008 17:12:22
"For those who claim "that's fine but the taxpayer shouldn't have to pay for it," as Maximus says, Catholics pay taxes too. Why should they pay for an education system which does not meet their needs? "

What other "needs" should we meet? Sharia schools? Sun worshippers? Pagans? Mormons?
12

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15/02/2008 20:23:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
13

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15/02/2008 20:29:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
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