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Insult to claim people will vote for independence ignorant of outcome



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Tam Dalyell states "I believe people should be aware that if the Scottish Parliament now continues in existence, it does mean, sooner rather than later, the dismantling of the British state" (your report, 9 May). If Mr Dalyell is correct, independence is inevitable, for the alternative, the abolition of the Scottish Parliament, is even more certain to lead to independence.
Mr Dalyell and those people who "choked his phone" in support are living in the past, the issue is now a choice between further devolution and independence.

Mr Dalyell also states: "All I ask is people don't sleepwalk into something that actually
they don't want." Independence will only happen after a referendum in which a majority will have voted yes. It is condescending to suggest that people who vote yes for independence in a referendum will not realise they are indeed voting yes for independence in a referendum.

In this respect Mr Dalyell reveals his Labour and British Establishment roots. One of the attractions of independence, for me at least, is the expectation that the electorate will be better regarded by the political establishment.

HAMISH SCOTT

Carlaverock Drive

Tranent, East Lothian


Tam Dalyell has a point in saying a referendum must have a question for those who never supported devolution in the first place. Perhaps 25 per cent of the population never wanted it but this section is being airbrushed out of history.

There is also no democratic mandate for a referendum; the only party advocating one was the SNP – who only received a third of the vote (on a 50 per cent turnout ) – not that this seems to matter much in Scotland these days.

WILLIAM BALLANTINE

Dean Road

Bo'ness, West Lothian


I cannot help but feel that the last people to know the full impact of a hurried referendum vote will be the people of Scotland. Now, with Wendy Alexander calling for the SNP to "bring it on", I fear we will enter a nasty battle of political soundbites that will only obfuscate the real issues. We need a proper debate that addresses the real issues: economic – can we stand on our own feet without Westminster subsidies and massive tax increases; political – will Europe take us seriously and let us join the EU; military – can we afford to defend our borders as we would surely not be able to rely on the English to do so, and so on.

Surely, it is best to see how well we have been served by devolution before launching off down the road to independence.

If the people of Scotland really want independence, let them decide from the standpoint of knowledge not ignorance.

(DR) MARTIN J KNOTT

Moulin Way

Dunfermline, Fife


It seems perfectly legitimate for a politician to change her mind on any subject. However, I find it strange that Wendy Alexander should call for one now.

With her Conservative and Liberal Democrat colleagues, she will soon take part in the Calman Commission to examine whether or not the Scottish Parliament should have additional powers. The terms of reference of the commission do not extend to discussing independence.

The SNP's manifesto includes a commitment to a referendum on independence in 2010. By then, Scottish people will have been able to assess the government's performance and to consider maturely the whole question of whether Scotland should have the opportunity to express her own identity in Europe and the international community.

Decisions, taken in haste, are generally wrong decisions.

JULIAN RUDD

St Leonards Drive

Forres, Moray






The full article contains 593 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 May 2008 7:37 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Steve,

Bo'ness 12/05/2008 00:39:00
"Wil Europe take us seriously?", well, they took MALTA seriously!! Good greif, this is what Scotland is up against. Blinkered thick unionist dogma.

Given the choice between another 12-16 years of Tory rule and independence, I'll have independence please.
2

Richardinho,

12/05/2008 00:45:55
Scratch any unionist and what you will find is a deep seated distrust and contempt for the Scottish voter; they can't be trusted, they don't understand what independence is, they'll vote to raise taxes, etc etc.

i wonder if Tam Dalyell or his ilk are capable of reflecting on why they have such a low opinion of their fellow Scots?
3

Tom in Belmont,

Belmont 12/05/2008 03:14:39
#2
Seems to me YOU express distrust for other sorts of Scottish voters. Is that fair?
4

EWB,

UK 12/05/2008 06:38:12
Out of the frying pan, into the fire?

As long as Scotland has substantial oil and gas reserves, the EU will fall over itself to let an independent Scotland join and oblige her to adhere to Clause 176a of the Lisbon Treaty, which will give Brussels control over European oil and gas reserves.

The EU needs all the contributor nations it can get hold of to fund the impoverished accession states of eastern Europe.
5

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 12/05/2008 06:53:20
Re Steve (#1) : "Wil Europe take us seriously?", well, they took MALTA seriously!! Good greif, this is what Scotland is up against. Blinkered thick unionist dogma."

I agree that Martin Knott's question is unnecessary. However, this comes over as something much more seriously amiss than mere unionist dogma. These seem more like the thoughts of someone with low self-esteem as far as his country is concerned. If these feelings had been directed toward himself (i.e. asking himself "will others take me seriously?"), one would think that this was a person who'd lived in an abusive and degrading domestic environment where he was always being ridiculed and humiliated. As it is, his attitude seems to come from a situation where Scotland was always being ridiculed and humiliated. However, that's just the nature of the UK.

On a different matter, Martin Knott would do well to learn that Europe and the EU are not the same thing.
6

Normal!,

Highland 12/05/2008 07:29:07
Letter (Ballantine) states 25% did not want devolution. As only 46% of Scotland voted FOR devolution, it follows that 54% were either against or not interested. This whole debate(mess!) has been brought about by the likes of (the late) Donald Dewar and his 'sidekick' our own , Bendy Wendy. They, and most of the Labour Party assured the electorate that devolution would stop any further moves to separation. It is unfortunate this has not proved the case probably due to the incompetence of 'Motor Mouth' and her New Labour cohorts, as well as the fact that most Scots were not in favour in the first place.
7

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 12/05/2008 08:32:57
At present, Turkey's application to become a Member State of the European Union is being carefully considered, once certain conditions with relation to human and political rights have been agreed?

IF, at the same time, an independent Scotland had also applied to become a Member State, I believe I know which of the two nations the E.U. would rather accept!
8

Tynietiger,

12/05/2008 08:42:16
Martin (letters) is tying himself in Knotts as he relies on the usual Unionist scare tactics. how does he tnink other NORMAL small countries manage self government and most European ones are much better off with independence.
9

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 12/05/2008 09:58:15
Ballantine letter above
"There is also no democratic mandate for a referendum; the only party advocating one was the SNP – who only received a third of the vote (on a 50 per cent turnout ) – not that this seems to matter much in Scotland these days."

Democracy - a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

If 50% of the population who are eligible to vote do not take part in our free elections when they have the chance (and 40% couldn't be bothered to vote in the devolution referendum in 1997 and simialr in 1979) then one realy has to question their commitment to the democractic process, their interest in the country and their right to have a say on anything.

Mandatory voting for all, with a Box to clearly register a spoiled vote/disenchantment.
10

Ned,

British Morningside 12/05/2008 10:14:32
I really hope the Scottish people understand what they are sliding into re the independence issue. It wont be all rainbows and roses . It just wont work.
Britain is a small island . We need each other. I hope people will realise it. The good days will be over.
11

Queen D,

Glasgow 12/05/2008 11:08:37
Ned, would you explain "we need each other "?
I can see no reason at all.
I do not need my country to house WMDs.
I do not need my country to follow ,blindly , a foreign policy led by London Labour, which causes death and destruction to so many. Our own included.
I do not need a country which tells us we are too wee , too stupid and a bunch of scrounging wasters to boot.
I don't want a bunch of MPs at Westminster doing hee haw for Scotland, other than claiming every possible thing on expenses, and upsetting our neighbours by helping to vote in unpopular bills which we don't suffer in Scotland.
In short , I no longer wish to listen to lies and fabrications of Westminster MPs.
And while I'm at it , I no longer wish to pay for a biased media. I am so sick of the BBC et al putting my country down and I am even sicker at the convolutions of the so called Scottish press and the so called Scottish BBC.
12

Farky,

Edinburgh 12/05/2008 11:12:47
#10.

"The good days will be over."

Another typical negative comment from someone who clearly has little faith in Scotland or her people. I don't expect independence to be all rainbows and roses, but I do expect it to bring opportunities and responsibilities that will begin to make Scotland a fairer, more prosperous and vibrant country.

No more being held back by those who can only talk of DOOM & GLOOM. Like you for instance.


13

Ned,

Morrningside 12/05/2008 11:50:00
#11 and #12.
I respect your opinion.
Please understand there will be many who do not share your opinion on this realy serious issue. Being Scottish and proud or it does not only belong to followers of the S.N.P. line.
My hope is that we can all agree to disagree in peace and tolerance.
14

EWB,

UK 12/05/2008 11:50:55
#12: if Scotland can go it alone, why doesn't she really do that and be an independent nation like Norway or Switzerland and not an EU region or an EU transnational region?
15

Steve,

Bo'ness 12/05/2008 13:22:08
EU entry is not mandatory. But before we decide on that issue, we need independence.

Ned 13, those supporting independence are not unreasonable people, we have kids, families and pets and we give charity to good causes like everybody else. The only difference is we aspire to better things, and we wont be told that we are singularly incabable of running our own country.
16

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 12/05/2008 15:31:39
#11, excellent post, thanks.
17

John PM,

Edinburgh 13/05/2008 16:57:10
"can we stand on our own feet without Westminster subsidies and massive tax increases"

Actually we are not subsidised when the fullfigures are taken into account.

"Will Europe take us seriously and let us join the EU"

We are already in the EU and we have substantial areas of fishing stocks, Gas and Oil. We would be welcomed with open arms.

"can we afford to defend our borders as we would surely not be able to rely on the English to do so"

In fact scots have provide more of a proportion of front line troops than any other part of the UK. Ireland, Norway, Sweden, France are independent and don't require helpp from England to defend their shores why should we be any different, and why pay for Trident if we don't want it?

It's a shame that any Scot should be so worried about our country taking up normal powers but this is ther legacy of the British union and years upon years of deliberate negative propoganda by the unionist parties. Luckily most people can see through it and I believe enough will in 2010.

 

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