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Ian Swanson: Swinney's still got a real fight on his hands



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Published Date: 30 October 2008
BUSINESS and union leaders are against it, Chancellor Alistair Darling has branded it "ridiculous" and the people who would be expected to collect it say it's "pie in the sky".
But the SNP is pressing ahead with its plans for a local income tax to replace the council tax – and this week John Swinney signalled key concessions in a bid to win more support for the flagship policy.

The Finance Secretary's shift of position i
ncreases the prospects of bringing the Liberal Democrats on board for the scheme and so takes the Nationalists closer to securing the majority in parliament they need to get it passed.

But there are still big holes in the policy and serious doubts about whether it will ever come about.

Mr Swinney indicated he was ready to compromise on the plan for a centrally-set 3p tax rate across the whole country, which has been the main stumbling block in getting the Lib Dems, who back local income tax in principle, to sign up for the Scottish Government scheme.

Along with the other opposition parties, the Lib Dems point out there's not much that is local about a tax that is fixed by the Government.

But now it looks as if Mr Swinney could agree that after a period when the tax rate was set centrally, councils could then be given the power to vary the tax – but only downwards.

The Lib Dems say that's "a step in the right direction" but argue councils should be given the freedom to vary the tax up or down and answer to their own electorate for their decision.

Mr Swinney has also said the Scottish Government is considering excluding students from liability for the local income tax – effectively continuing the exemption they currently enjoy under the council tax.

Forcing students to pay the new tax would risk alienating even further a group which has already seen the SNP sideline its election promise to write off student debt.

And thirdly, Mr Swinney said he was willing to look again at how dividend income could be brought within the scope of the tax.

The idea that wealthy people who live off their investments would escape without paying a penny under the new tax was an obvious flaw on a policy supposed to be based on "ability to pay". Up until now the SNP – and the Lib Dems – had argued the tiny number of people involved and the extra costs involved meant it was simply not worth it. But now it looks as if the Government has recognised their appeal to "fairness" demands a different approach.

Mr Swinney's concessions tackle key concerns raised about the Government's original proposals and are designed to make the policy more palatable.

But Mr Darling poured scorn on the plan to allow councils to set 32 different rates. "Making a bad idea even worse" he called it.

The CBI called the move "a charter for complexity and cost".

And to cap that, HM Revenues & Customs denied SNP claims they had been in talks about collecting the new tax. One senior HMRC source was quoted saying: "This is pie in the sky. The logistical arrangements for collecting this tax would be incredible."

The SNP might be close to a deal with the Lib Dems on local income tax, but parliamentary arithmetic means the Government would still be short of a majority – and the votes of the two Green MSPs and independent Lothian MSP Margo MacDonald could be crucial.

The Greens are likely to prove more difficult to win over than the Lib Dems because a local income tax is not their own starting point. The Greens prefer land value tax – a levy on the value of the land where a property is built. They have yet to have detailed talks with the Government but they would almost certainly press for an element of land tax to be part of any package.

However, Labour – which has promised to come up with its own plans to replace or reform the council tax – has already said it is also willing to discuss land value taxation.

A Green source says: "The SNP's local income tax is not the only game in town."

Ms MacDonald is also still "not convinced" about the Government's proposals. "I just think it might not be do-able," she says.

On top of the tricky task of constructing a parliamentary majority to get the necessary legislation passed, the SNP still faces the UK Government's insistence that a local income tax would mean it clawed back over £400 million currently paid to Scots in council tax benefits – money which the Nationalists need to make their scheme work.

And a new problem has now arisen thanks to the financial crisis. Rising unemployment is expected to mean the new tax will raise around £500m less than the SNP had calculated.

Alex Salmond included the local income tax in the list of legislation he announced for the current parliamentary year back at the beginning of last month.

But the Bill is not expected to be introduced until near the end of the session – probably June next year – and may not be voted on until 2010.

The objective remains to introduce the new tax in 2011. But despite Mr Swinney's concessions, it looks as if the SNP will struggle to make that happen.





The full article contains 901 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 30 October 2008 9:20 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Ian Swanson
 
1

Farky,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 09:46:31
Just can't understand why a there is so much opposition to a LIT that would benefit so many people.
2

Shave,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 11:31:12
#1 Farky
Because it isn't clear that people would benefit as there may be 32 different rates of LIT.

Because we haven't been told what services would be cut due to the revenue shortfall.

Because we don't know whether unearned income will be subject to LIT.

Because we don't know whether Scotland will lose the money that currently gets paid to councils as CT benefit.

Because we don't know whether the 'local' accountability of councils will be maintained.

For more reasons try reading the article.

With this amount of debate and media coverage I expect these issues will be addressed. Maybe then it will be a good proposal.
3

Nikostratos,

30/10/2008 11:46:33
http://www.scottishunionist.com/


29 October 2008
Salmond slapped down by Norway minister
Posted by Scottish Unionist at 6:30 PM. There are 2 comments.
By John Robertson, Scottish Daily Mail

Alex Salmond was dealt a humiliating blow last night by a country that the SNP reveres as proof that an independent Scotland would flourish.

For decades, Nationalists have cited oil-rich Norway as a powerful example of how a separate Scottish state would fare after the break-up of the United Kingdom.

But now, for the first time, a senior Norwegian government minister has heaped ridicule on the claim that the Scandinavian country’s experience bolsters the case for Scottish independence.

Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Store dismissed the SNP’s core claim, dating back to the 1970s, that Scotland would massively increase its wealth by ‘reclaiming’ North Sea oil reserves.

He expressed the growing anger in Norway over Mr Salmond’s repeated comparisons between the two countries – claiming they threatened to spoil Norway’s relations with the rest of the UK. He said: “I would be upset to think Norway’s experience has become a source of division or strife between friends in other countries.”
4

subrosa,

30/10/2008 12:35:50
# 3

Oh dearie me Niko, nothing better to do than cut and paste from AM2's blog?

I would prefer if you gave an opinion about LIT. Until the full details are provided, then how can people make irrational assumptions. The details are still being worked upon as I understand. That's because the Scottish government listened to the concerns of the population during the consultation process.

Perhaps you find it strange for a government to listen to the people and can't cope.

Somehow I think Tony Blair truly wishes he'd listened to the people about Iraq. Then again, perhaps not, as he's earning £ms talking about it these days. Why anyone wants to listen, far less pay, for a man who took our forces to war on a total lie, defeats me.

Of course, to add insult to injury, nobody from the government is ever present when the body bags arrive home. Shame on the lot of the labour government.
5

Ecco Warrier,

Embra 30/10/2008 12:51:17
#3. Subrosa must have an SNP Tardis. From LIT to
bodybags in one jump.
6

Ecto,

30/10/2008 12:53:46
This LIT is the reason I have abandoned the SNP it is ludicrous, talk about destroying jobs and the economy of Scotland, this policy has more holes in it than a tea bag. Be big enough to put it down walk away from it and pretend it never happened. What about people who live in England but work in Scotland and vice versa? What about people who work for English companies but live in Scotland? Why should someone who has a pile of cash in the bank and is living in a house worth £1M+ not pay any local taxes? The whole thing is flawed and pointless, I predict this will be to Salmond what the pole tax was to Thatcher.
7

Marian,

30/10/2008 13:06:17
Its extremely strange that Nikosratus claims at 1146 today can not be found on any bona fide website. It appears to be a work of fiction like Gordon Brown's delusional version of his handling of the UK economy.

For the real story of the day I suggest that you watch http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qHqrBb-nRbs&eurl=http://www.order-order.com/ where Fred Harrison, the Renegade Economist, made his prescient call on the property market in 2005. His 2005 book has just been re-printed, Boom Bust: House Prices, Banking and the Depression of 2010. He has just produced this video accusing Gordon Brown of covering up his culpability.
8

Shave,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 13:19:31
#7 Marian

The claims can be found (quite easily).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/3280030/Alex-Salmond-refuses-to-back-down-after-Norway-says-were-not-like-Scotland..html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article5042660.ece

http://www.scotlandoffice.gov.uk/secretary-of-state-blog/?p=69

Can't vouch for their accuracy though.
9

Calum10,

30/10/2008 13:58:27
The parliamentary arithmetic has not changed. There are more MSPs in favour of scrapping the hated Council Tax than those who wish to retain it.

LIT is here to stay - get over it, or LIT as maybe.
10

Finnzz,

30/10/2008 14:01:20
#6

You really haven't paid much attention to it have you.

Its based on the ability to pay. The more you earn, the more you pay.
Just because a person is living in a £Million house, it does not equate to them being wealthy or earning a mint. After all, why should a pensioner, living alone in said £Million house pay more council tax than a working couple earning a mint while living in a one-bedroomed flat.
11

NorT,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 14:14:39
The sooner LIT comes in at a standard rate all over Scotland the better. Alex Slamond should not give into the LibDems with their demands.
12

Traquir , Alba,

30/10/2008 14:38:18
3 Nikostratos,

http://www.scottishunionist.com/


Dear ,

with reference to your e-mail to Bjørn Jahnsen at the Norwegian Foreign Minister's press office, pleased be advised that the attached response letter from ambassador Bjarne Lindstrøm was sent to the Scottish Daily Mail this morning. We very much hope this will appear in tomorrow's edition of the newspaper in order to avoid further misunderstandings.

Kind regards,

Stein Iversen

Stein Iversen
Minister Counsellor
Head of Press, Information & Cultural Affairs
Royal Norwegian Embassy
25 Belgrave Square,
London SW1X 8QDWork
(+44) 020 7591 5521Mob.
(+44) 0777 55 24 737
sti@mfa.no http://www.norway.org.uk/


Sir,

The article "Salmond Slapped down by Norway Minister" in the Daily Mail on 29 October contained several incorrect and misleading statements attributed to Norway's Foreign Minister, Jonas Gahr Støre.

Firstly, there is no "growing anger in Norway" over comparisons made between Scotland and Norway during the debate in the United Kingdom against the backdrop of the current global financial crisis.

Secondly, no accusations have been made by Mr Støre against Mr Salmond, as alleged in the article. In the interview, the Foreign Minister merely pointed out factual similarities and differences between the challenges presently faced by Scotland and Norway. Inferring from this that Mr Støre is of the view that Mr Salmond has in any way lied or mislead the public, is simply incorrect.

In short, the Norwegian Foreign Minister did not intend to criticise either side in this debate, which is a domestic political discussion. What he strongly emphasised in the interview with the Daily Mail and which, sadly, was simply omitted from the article, was his sincere appreciation of the warm ongoing relationship between Scotland and Norway.

Yours sincerely,
Bjarne Lindstrøm
Ambassador of Norway
13

,

30/10/2008 14:44:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

Linda,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 15:17:02
Here are the facts on LIT..for Edinburgh City Council

Council Tax Salary /pension Local Income Tax
Band A £779 £5000 NIL @ 3p in £
Band B £909 £10,000 £119
Band C £1039 £15,000 £269
Band D £1169 £20,000 £419
Band E £1428 £25,000 £569
Band F £1688 £30,000 £719
Band G £1948 £35,000 £869

Currently Personal Allowance is £6035 per annum

Two income family in Band D with combined income of £50,000 would actually benefit by £51 per annum Council Tax = £1169 Combined LIT = £1138
15

Calvinist,

30/10/2008 16:06:25
BUSINESS and union leaders are against it, Chancellor Alistair Darling has branded it "ridiculous" and the people who would be expected to collect it say it's "pie in the sky".

Well of course Swinney, Swinney quite contrary will press ahead. This is not just any government, it's an SNP government. So feed on your soma people of Scotland our masters know best.
16

,

30/10/2008 17:02:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
17

,

30/10/2008 17:06:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

,

30/10/2008 17:08:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

,

30/10/2008 17:11:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
20

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 18:47:26
#15 - There are lies, damned lies and projections by the SNP of a local income tax of 3p. Expect a funding gap of about a billion pounds and widespread cuts in local authority services.


21

,

30/10/2008 19:21:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
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22

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 30/10/2008 23:21:04
taxes.taxes.taxed.to.death
23

The Tin Man,

31/10/2008 07:14:10
Having a LIT with a locally-set rate, compared to raising income tax at a national level is just as much of a seismic shift as going from CT to LIT in the first place.

A very, very hazy at the moment.

Scot exec haven't even discussed LIT with the organisation that would be responsible for collecting the tax? Pathetic nonsense.

Anyway, changing the local taxation system usually brings down whichever government introduces the changes, so the SNP better be careful.

 

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