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How much must Capital suffer for the tram project?



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Published Date: 08 August 2008
I WOULD like to comment on several articles that appeared in the Evening News on August 6.
I am amazed to read that city leaders are calling for Edinburgh's trams project to be added to the list of Scotland's top planning priorities.

Given your further article on Lothian Buses "City tells bus bosses to reverse route cutbacks", it can no
w be clearly demonstrated that the trams are destroying what was once Scotland's finest bus service. There is a direct link between the building of the trams and the downturn in people using the buses.

As your editorial says, areas such as Haymarket, Princes Street and St Andrew Square have been decimated. Now on the horizon is the spectre of further cuts to the Lothian bus service. This must put a new spin on democracy, "the needs of a few are greater than those of the many".

Your editorial fell well short of laying the blame on this dramatic downturn on the trams, choosing instead to blame the cost of fuel.

If you need further proof then your article "Champion to rescue Leith from tram chaos" demonstrates that the cost far outstrips the benefits. It states that Leith has been hit the hardest. Why? Because that is where all of the effort is currently.

Princes Street will suffer even more when it is subjected to closures later on this year. Will we be seeing a champion for Princes Street?

How much pain are the people of Edinburgh going to suffer from this project, how much is it costing in real terms?

Surface trams have fallen out of favour with even the most ardent supporters. Dublin has now decided to put its future expansion plans under ground, increasing the numbers carried from 2400 per hour in each direction to well over 10,000.

In making this decision they also save the heritage of streets like O'Connell Street which would equate to our Princes Street. It also insures that the disruption during construction is kept to a minimum.

This is not a national priority, it is a national disgrace.
John R T Carson, Forthtag, South Queensferry

Axing No 13 will be unlucky for some
I AM very concerned about the axing, or otherwise, of the No 13 bus (New, August 1) as it really is a lifeline for so many elderly people and others, in the Ravelston/March Road area, who I know are very dependent on this service.

In years gone by a No 18 bus used to branch off Queensferry Road, into Strachan Road, along March Road and back out into Queensferry Road, thus providing a regular service day and night for a good number of years.

Why can't a No 41 do this now, especially when it will gain financially as the route along that part of Queensferry Road, which it will not be using, is virtually without houses? I would think that the No 41 would benefit greatly from this slight route alteration, bearing in mind that people are not able to take their cars into town and park easily nowadays especially in the evenings when they want to go to theatres, classes, etc.

Could Lothian Buses not try this out – it could be a potential option for restoring one of the most socially important services.

I may say that, on the whole, I do think we have a very good bus service.
Miss M L McIvor, Craigleith Hill Gardens, Edinburgh

Hard to see where bus priority fits in
AS a local resident I am following with interest the roadworks at the intersection of Sir Harry Lauder Road, Portobello High Street and Seafield Road. The plan is to replace the existing roundabout with traffic lights. It seems like no time at all since the original traffic lights were replaced with the roundabout! I hope we don't have to wait too long until it is all changed back again.

The genius who thought up this alteration and the new traffic flow system stated that the approach roads to the new traffic light controlled junction would include "bus priority lanes". In view of the fact the pavements at Goff Avenue, Bryce Avenue and Kekewich Avenue in Inchview Terrace have been extended by about three metres, I fail to see how a "bus priority lane" can be fitted into the great scheme of things!
Dennis R B Anderson, Vandeleur Avenue, Edinburgh

Soldiers were not defending country
WHILE I have nothing but sympathy for the soldier who was stabbed in an attack close to Redford Barracks (News, August 4), saying he felt "safer dodging bullets and mortars in Iraq than walking the streets of Edinburgh", he is totally wrong to suggest that he has been away "defending his country". He was in Iraq as part of a military force that initially invaded a sovereign nation state of the United Nations without being sanctioned by the UN, making it indisputably illegal.

He should not delude himself that these troops are even acting in the interests of the civilian population of this country.
William Burns, Pennywell Road, Edinburgh

City falling short in replacing its trees
EDINBURGH City Council says it is committed to replacing felled trees.
This does not seem to be the case in Davidson's Mains or at Western Corner. At both locations there were mature trees which were felled a few years back and no replacements have yet been planted. At these road junctions there is a high volume of standing traffic, and trees are an excellent way of absorbing the CO2.
Colin C Maclean, Hillpark Avenue Edinburgh





The full article contains 934 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 August 2008 8:42 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 12:58:52
I'm sorry. I'm fed up to the back teeth with the rubbish that emanates from William Burns. To even suggest that the soldier who was stabbed is deluding himself, as he suggests, beggars belief. Forget the rights and wrongs of Iraq/Afgahanistan, although that's what Burns is really talking about. What about the attacks of 7/7 in London? What about the attack on Glasgow Airport? What about the trials with terrorist undertones? Is he seriously trying to suggest that the troops are not acting in the interests of the civilian population? Away and get a life.
2

cheuchtar,

08/08/2008 14:28:26
Please let us have a moratorium on letters about trams!!
3

Forthtag,

South Queensferry 08/08/2008 15:05:41
#2 Do you deny that the Airport line to Dublin will carry at least four time the passengers per hour that your system can carry?
Do you deny that they will not be digging up O'Connell Street for months or suspending wires to deface a World Heritage Site?
Do you deny that the traders in O'Connell Street will be considerably less disturbed if at all with the building of the underground system?
Where is the spin?
4

nemien,

Dublin 08/08/2008 16:02:52
Come on #2 give us an answer to the questions posed by #4.

It looks as if he knows more about it than you do!
You are nenowned for your spin and defending the undefendable.

Did you get it wrong should the Edinburgh system be underground for the reasons mentioned?

Would businesses not be going bust if you did so?

Is the Edinburgh tram system totally inadequate for the purpose?

5

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 16:51:56
#8 Scallwag you are fond of supporting the Edinburgh tram scheme but are still to come up with a cohesive argument for the tram line in Edinburgh. Is it because deep down you know that spending £700m and years of disruption for something that will need an ongoing subsidy for ever is not actually a good idea?

Saying that Dublin (over 3x the size of Edinburgh and a completely different topography and geography) has one does not really cut it. Particularly when their lines were paid for by the EU, and when all the Dubliners I have spoken to view them as a waste!
6

big man,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 16:54:54
Trams !! love em or hate em thats the question, Edinburgh had the trams forced on them by Jack McConnel when he was 1st Minister, the residents of Edinburgh should have held a postal referendum, then maybe the city wouldn't be in the mess that it is just now. So there is going to be cutbacks on LB services and one has to wonder why, well am afraid to say that the nice people of the city have had it to good for to long, they moan about the service that they get, very seldom praise it, and if i was a buisness man and people weren't using it then i would have no concience in reducing it, the city fathers have had there good dividend through LB every year, but now they dont want to cough up money for to retain those services which will get cut, yet they can spend money on silly flags. also let us not forget that LB chairman Mr N. Rennilson got a hefty bonus for his contribution to for meeting the expectations of Edinburgh Council, and yet now due to the problems of fuel prices etc, there is a void to fill and it has all come at a price, and lo and behold CUTBACKS IN SERVICES, wht doesn't Mr Rennilson hand back his bonus and Edinburgh council dont buy silly flags, then maybe that will go some way for the expenditure that is needed. Am sorry to say to the good people of Edinburgh soon cheap bus fares will be a thing of the past because at the end of the day LB will be subsidising the trams as there will have to be an all round fare which is the same as a tram fare ( yet i recall a comment in the EEN saying" buses will not subsidise the trams")so beware alll you people who think you will still get value for your money??? i doubt it, and 1 final thing to put is the question of buggies on buses, that i dont have a problem with, it's people who moan because they say there being victimised ??, this i doubt very much, this story has went on long enough and should now die, Cnnclr Cardownie who is he ? he is just another person wanting his name printed in a paper, just remember
7

Forthtag,

South Queensferry 08/08/2008 17:04:15
Temper, temper, Scallywag

Is your comment "and I too have some issues with elements of the project" an agreement with me on the reasons for choosing the airport line in Dublin and to #5's issues of the system being totally inadequate.
Do you now want to apologise to the people of Leith who have gone bust or about to go bust?

By the way as you no doubt know because unlike you, you know who I am. I am a Chartered Civil Engineer who was in charge of the team that built Skye Bridge; I was also a director in Tube Lines, who now run the Jubilee, Piccadilly and Northern Lines of the London Underground.
Latterly I was Director of Maintenance of Network Rail, having been part of the team who rescued Railtrack from administration.

What have you done?

By the way Strasburg was heavily bombed during the war and has as yet not recovered sufficiently to become a “World Heritage Site” unlike Princes Street.

John R T Carson BSc CEng FICE FIHT
8

nemien,

Dublin 08/08/2008 17:39:10
Well done Forthtag it looks like Scallywag is on the run.

Is Scallywag going to tell us who he is and what he has done, this would give his arguments some credibility!

Thank you for agreeing with me Scallywag, your system is inadequate to cope with your needs!!!.

A bit of the history of Dublin trams for you Sallywag.

A guy called Cormack Rabbit and few friends who worked for Dublin Council designed the first phases of the tram system in their spare time. They spent twenty years lobbying anyone they could speak to trying to convince Dublin that trams would be good for them. Unfortunately Dublin now are building below the streets having used up all of the old redundant line that the original tram system relied heavily on.

Dublin have major problems getting anymore passengers onto their surface system, because the traffic lights, at grade junctions etc will not allow them to run anything better that a five minute service. This is the main reason for going underground, they need high volume carriers to service the airport. Dublin is as congested now as it was prior to the trams, with areas in the inner city where it is impossible to get on a tram during the rush hour. People in these areas have returned to their cars!

As to your empire comments, Dublin is part of Eire and we have our own excellent engineers.
9

gus1940,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 17:52:23
How can an area be 'decimated'?
10

calum,

08/08/2008 18:00:06
To return to the headline, Not only Edinburgh suffers in the short to medium term, but the rest of Scotland suffers in the long term with no investment in the A9, A96, A82, electrification and modernisation of rail travel north of the Central Belt. All that will result in a disincentive to ivest in jobs, industry and development whilst Edinburgh will have a tramLINE which, by TIE's own figures will be accessible to 6% of Edinburgh's population and carry 4000 passengers per hour max. at peak! Then Willie Gallagher claims it will be great for getting crowds in and out of Murrayfield Stadium! It holds 67500 for goodness sake. Where is his maths teacher?
And by Neil Renilson's recent admission in the EN that it will replace 1 bus route.
Quite how MSPs like Foulkes, MacDonald and others can reconcile their unstinting support whilst claiming to represent the best interests of Scotland is beyond comprehension. Shame on them.
11

Forthtag,

South Queensferry 08/08/2008 19:02:25
Hi Scallywag

To be precise, Strasbourg does not have world heritage status, a very small part has, so small I cannot find it on Google even zooming in!
In any case the discussion was about Princes Street and O'Connell Street and the inadequacies of the Edinburgh tram system to meet the need of the city.
Who you are and what credibility you have to defend the indefensible.
Are you Willie Gallagher?
By the way your spelling is appalling.
12

Mikey,

08/08/2008 20:50:06
Scallywag,

"I am well acquaitend with Dublin engineers. My point is that we Scots used to have the vision and drive in the same way the Irish have just now. Unfortunatley these days we seem to be a bunch of snivelling moaners."

Got to agree with you there. Looks like some Scots actually LIKE being second best! And as for the guy who reckons that Dubs don't like the LUAS (trams), that'll be why both red and green lines are always packed?

The only thing I can see wrong with the trams in Edinburgh is that there's only one line. Should have built another line from Sighthill to Little France.
13

Jasbar,

09/08/2008 12:52:27
scallywag

How many people have died on Edinburgh's roads over the last 5 years because we didn't have trams?

The figure for the A9 is 35.

Your priorities are just selfish and plain stupid.

In a land flowing with milk and honey and a crep bus service, Edinburgh's trams may be justifiable.

But, where budgets are tight, and services are being slashed across the board, Edinburgh's trams are a fatuous vanity project that is using money that should be used to care for our citizens.

And, if I'm wrong then a referendum would have shown that. But the power crazed numpties in the council crepped it. They knew they would never win a direct vote on it.

And, bright boy, remember that 60% of the electorate did NOT vote for parties supporting the trams.

This negates every tenet of our illusory "democracy". It's a sham.


 

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