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Bizarre arguments of a primitive belief system



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Published Date: 07 October 2008
The Rev Dr John Polkinghorne (Science & Environment, 4 October) is perhaps looking to stimulate argument and debate, but can it be taken seriously from a ministry that preaches of a "living God", and of the "power of prayer" and that the "son of God" once lived amongst us? The belief that there is a God who interacts with our daily lives is, at the very best, primitive. Inevitably, the image of this God must be similar in form to that of the believer and is
It could be argued mankind's actions, or inactions, contribute more than "natural" disasters to the poverty and deprivation of millions of people. Many of the main players who can influence these happenings are religious.

The world is constantly
in evolution, species come and go, geology demonstrates continents and climates very different from those of today, and this has not ceased. Mankind has no more right to this earth than the dinosaurs, and may eventually go the same way. Prayer will make no difference.

JIMMY WILSON

John Street

Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire

It is understandable that Pope Benedict is upset because no-one does what he tells them any more, not even, it would seem, his Catholic flock (your report, 6 October). However, everyone in a pluralist and liberal secular democracy is able to practise a religion, change it or not have one at all, subject to the essential boundaries placed on behaviour towards other human beings.

The Vatican refuses to accept that supernatural deities are just another idea in the global market for ideas, and the proposition for same stands or falls on the merit and persuasiveness of its argument, including an objective evaluation of any supporting evidence.

It is not, therefore, to the Pope's liking that in the modern world human beings are allowed freedom from religion as well as freedom of religion.

ALISTAIR McBAY

National Secular Society

Atholl Crescent

Edinburgh





The full article contains 322 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 October 2008 8:27 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Maximus,

Roberton 07/10/2008 12:17:47
"It is understandable that Pope Benedict is upset because no-one does what he tells them any more, not even, it would seem, his Catholic flock"

Firstly, the Pope doesn't tell us to do anything, but rather he guides and shows us the way. Secondly I follow what he says, mostly because I've seen what the alternative is and I believe in a loving God.
2

A McBay,

Edinburgh 07/10/2008 12:45:59
James, every faith school is an exercise in forcing innocent children to "believe" - if faith schools don't do this, then why do we need them?

Maximus, "guidance" from the Pope often includes the threat of ex-communication if people don't "follow" it.

And James, secularism is indeed neutral, but it is entitled to fight back against those that would compromise or undermine that neutrality - like the Vatican. You should heed the view of Sir Stephen Wall, former Principal Adviser to Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, who said in the Tablet in November 2007 that :

“The (Catholic) Church portrays itself as the victims of aggressive secularism, but is actually heading towards an aggressive fundamentalism that is further from the Christian ideal than secular ideology.”

Wall also said the Vatican was wrong to oppose gay adoption and IVF:

“It (Rome) is using, or abusing, its own moral absolutism to deny to people, whose way of life it stigmatises, the civil rights that a more generous state recognises as basic to their status as citizens”.
3

Maximus,

Roberton 07/10/2008 13:06:02
Maximus, "guidance" from the Pope often includes the threat of ex-communication if people don't "follow" it.

No not 'follow it' - but preach what they believe to be true. There have been very few excommuncations since Vat II. Besides what else does the CC teach about excommunications Mr McBay? Hmmm - Treat them like a Tax Collector? And how did Christ treat Tax Collectors? One of them became an Apostle and author of a Gospel.

And as for Wall! Well, one man does not maketh the Church. Let's look toward the CoE to see what acceptance of all things nice to have has done. The Church stands on a rock which is 2000 years old. How old is the NSS? What does it have to offer? Are you its only member as you appear to be only one writing in?
4

Maximus,

Roberton 07/10/2008 13:17:44
And some more ...

"every faith school is an exercise in forcing innocent children to "believe" - if faith schools don't do this, then why do we need them?"

Again, faith schools do not force belief anymore than the children's parents do. They impart teaching out of love. Why do we need them - because they are an extension of our faith beyond the wall of the physical church building. We need them just as we need faith based charities and businesses. They all support Catholic Social Teaching - which part of this don;t you agree with exactly: Diginity of the human person, common good and community, option for the poor, rights and responsibility, role of government and subidiarity, economic justice, stewardship of God's creation, promotion of peace and disarmament, participation, or global solidarity and development.

5

,

07/10/2008 14:11:56
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6

,

07/10/2008 14:14:32
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7

go taste the truth,

07/10/2008 14:22:36
Molloy the coward

8

PMB,

London 07/10/2008 14:36:01
Maximus: The list of wonderful things faith schools supposedly do overlooks the reality of such schools. With regards to Roman Catholic schools, they are notorious for unscientific indoctrination with regards to abortion, the Vatican's position being that girls and women must never exercise control over their bodies or lives. They also have dubious teachings on sex, gender roles, and sexuality, to the extent that young people growing up with Catholic teaching often end up very confused and guilty about their natural feelings and emotions. Where do you think the term 'Catholic damage' comes from?

The Catholic Church also has a very poor record in regards to most of the things you mention in your list. In terms of solidarity with the poor, the Vatican and the Catholic church in Latin America has invariably been opposed to any movements or governments that have attempted to redistribute wealth, and the Vatican was vehemently opposed to liberation theology. On the other hand, the Vatican aided and abetted the various military juntas and dictatorships in the region. And remind me, did the Catholic church support the Republicans or Franco's Fascists in the Spanish civil war?







9

,

07/10/2008 14:46:40
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10

The Sentry,

Coward County 07/10/2008 15:03:27
1#

Molloy The Coward
11

The Blue Bear,

Right behind you! 07/10/2008 15:09:22
James Molloy you are and always will be a coward!
12

,

07/10/2008 15:22:17
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13

,

07/10/2008 15:22:59
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14

ShropshireBear,

07/10/2008 15:45:52
Fail Fail Molloy the coward.
15

ShropshireBear,

07/10/2008 15:49:04
Can't handle it can you Molloy the coward? You have to get Willhelm banned. Molloy the coward has thrown the dummy well and truely out of the pram.

Bahahaha.

Molloy the yellow underpants coward.
16

Maximus,

Roberton 07/10/2008 15:50:17
#9, Read the Theology of the Body
17

Maximus,

Roberton 07/10/2008 15:57:14
#14 Now run that "dignity" line past the rest of us again, with a straight face please.
Straight face - honestly - Read Theology of the Body, You guys really need to understand the difference between what The Catholic Church teaches and what some of its members do.

As for the wealth of the Church - it was donated, and it still belongs to the World.

Would you care to comment in the countless saints, charities, who do good? Nope - thought not.

I seem to remember alot of secular activity is not exactly savoury either. Yet I believe there is truth in nearly everything that exists, I don't totally dismiss something because it isn't Catholic. I wonder if you would care to do the reverse?
18

,

07/10/2008 16:05:10
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19

,

07/10/2008 16:18:24
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20

Feriens,

Linwood 07/10/2008 17:01:12
Molloy the coward.
21

london calling,

07/10/2008 17:20:41
Molloy
the
Coward
22

Como Toes,

07/10/2008 17:48:15
James Molloy is a coward.


That is all.
23

,

07/10/2008 19:18:37
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24

Marco Cassino,

Scotland 07/10/2008 19:49:51
James Molloy is a coward of pompous proportions
25

West End Blue,

# 1 07/10/2008 22:18:14
Ah, I see that Mr "NO SHOW" Molloy has resurfaced,from whatever sleazy bolt-hole he has been sheltering in......
In fact due to the massive non appearance from the cowardly Mr "NO SHOW" I just cannot bring myself to even attempt to read the twisted ramblings, of one who has lost so much face from within this forum..........
26

danbob,

07/10/2008 22:46:54
Who's James Molloy and why? is he a coward?
27

Mavericki,

08/10/2008 06:45:18
Molloy = COWARD
28

Maximus,

Roberton 08/10/2008 08:47:45
Jaws - you are on some rant. You really need to get out and read more.

BTW we don't worship the pope and he has apologised for the child abuse scandals, which were started by allowing secular philosophy to enter the selection process for priests. (www.usccb.org/nrb/johnjaystudy/). Go figure.

Have a good day determining right from wrong.
29

Maximus,

Roberton 08/10/2008 08:55:52
#10, Also Jaws - "James Molloy is a coward."? Eh - is this the right thing to call someone? Feel the love and forgiveness.
30

Maximus,

Roberton 08/10/2008 12:44:59
no 14 - On Crimen Sollicitationis ... I see you would prefer the follow the BBC, rather than anything else, so please see the attached to find out what Crimen Sollicitationis actually referred to, and what the bishops knew about it.

http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/update/bn080703.htm

So first we worship the pope - wrong, what esle are you wrong about Jaws?
31

Maximus,

Roberton 08/10/2008 12:49:36
#14 again, On St. Erasmus. Well you are right here. His patronage alse extends to:

against abdominal pains
against appendicitis
against childhood intestinal disease
against colic
against danger at sea
against intestinal disorders
against seasickness
against stomach diseases
against storms
ammunition workers
birth pains
boatmen
childbirth
explosives workers
Gaeta, Italy
mariners
navigators
ordnance workers
sailors
watermen
women in labour

Let's put this into context. What did Christ say about being a soldier - be a good soldier.
32

Maximus,

Roberton 08/10/2008 12:55:05
#14, As for Aroup Chaterjee - one of two people opposing the sainthood of Mother Teresa, and also an athiest. Not much evidence in favour of Aroup's writings eh?
33

Maximus,

Roberton 08/10/2008 14:01:14
#19 - Read Hitler's Pope. Hmmm. Read http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0028.html

Not doing so well are we Jaws?
34

Maximus,

Roberton 08/10/2008 14:07:56
#13, On the Vatican's wealth ... again, see http://panoply.home.att.net/wealth.htm and http://www.cuf.org/Faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=242

How is the ground beneath your feet Jaws?
35

Green,

Dundee 10/10/2008 22:05:01
Have a look at ConcordatWatch

http://www.concordatwatch.eu


to see the up-to-date situation about papal concordats throughout the world
36

Garry Otton,

ScottishMediaMonitor.com 11/10/2008 14:53:45
Brilliant, Jaws! Pure brilliant!
37

wayne bijlyeerheid,

14/10/2008 12:21:58
#2 said, >Firstly, the Pope doesn't tell us to do anything, but rather he guides and shows us the way<
Obviously never heard of the Inquisition against the "great heresy".

 

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