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Beware: The speed cameras you can't avoid



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Published Date: 15 October 2008
A QUIET revolution is under way above some of our busiest roads. A new generation of speed cameras is being ushered in which promise to do exactly what their proponents have always insisted they are about – cutting speed, not raising cash from fines.
Motorists in the Capital have already had a taste of average speed cameras during roadworks on the city bypass.

There, for 12 months until May this year, traffic uniformly slowed to 40mph between the two cameras at Old Craighall and Sheriffhall.

But the next generation of speed cameras have a far wider target than that simple two-camera system.

Improved technology means networks of up to 50 of the cameras can be installed in an individual area or a stretch of road more than 15 miles long.

Linking so many together for the first time means there is no escape for speeding drivers.

Whereas, until now, drivers could have escaped cameras set a significant distance apart simply by exiting at a convenient junction, the new system can cover every turn-off.

And what is most worrying for any driver who tends to nudge the speedometer over the legal limit is that, at around £300,000 for a basic network, they can be relatively affordable.

The new technology is currently being trialled by the Home Office in London, and is expected to be approved for wider use within months.

Average speed cameras are popular with the police, simply because they do tend to make people drive more slowly.

Whereas single cameras often catch drivers on the hop, average speed cameras give drivers a chance to react – and, faced with the prospect of a fine, all the evidence shows that they do react positively.

Superintendent Alan Duncan, head of the road policing unit at Lothian and Borders Police, says: "The benefit of these cameras is that the enforcement on the motorists is consistent and over a far longer period than a single camera, so they are far more effective in terms of modifying drivers' behaviour.

"If you have a stretch of road where there is a history of collisions, you can specifically target that stretch in order to change the way people drive. From that point of view, this technology has the potential to be effective in reducing collisions in accident blackspots."

The Lothian and Borders Safety Camera Partnership, the agency which installs and operates speed and red light cameras, is currently reviewing the future of its network. It is positive about the use of more average speed cameras as it considers how to invest its annual £1.5 million budget.

Manager Colin McNeill says: "Average speed cameras were pretty effective on the city bypass in tandem with the traffic management around the roadworks. We enjoyed a period where there wasn't a lot of offending but a lot of compliance. It kind of smoothes speed out, so it's also good for traffic flow."

The new generation cameras are potentially useful on main roads such as the city bypass, although are unlikely to be used in urban areas. He adds: "The whole ethos of speed enforcement is to try and make the roads safe, and if you've got problem areas over a large area of the road network it might be a good use of resources."

Significant numbers of drivers, however, will regard such "Big Brother" enforcement along routes where there is no history of fatal accidents as simply another example of interference by the "nanny state", according to one motoring organisation.

Hugh Bladon, spokesman for the Association of British Drivers, believes the cameras could cause an increase in accidents as drivers become obsessed with watching their speed. "What we don't need is people worrying about the speed they're driving at – let's have people wondering about how they're driving and not looking at the speedometer the whole time.

"It's all about control. It leaves the driver unable to make any decision for themselves. The final stage of this will be that each of us has one civil servant driving our car for us. I'm not suggesting we've got a man with a red flag walking in front of us, but it's not far from that."

The Institute of Advanced Motorists, however, was more positive, saying: "There is a very high level of compliance on average speed cameras – considerably higher than static cameras – which is good because it means you've got people complying with the speed limit for a longer period.

"We've always believed in compliance with speed limits as opposed to capture afterwards. As long as the cameras are clearly signed and they encourage compliance, they will make a further contribution to road safety."

Whatever the rights and wrongs, it looks like drivers will soon need to be quicker to apply the brakes on some of our busiest roads.





The full article contains 806 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 October 2008 9:49 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

AbandonAllHope,

15/10/2008 12:24:02
All part of the fascist new world order that the EEN is promoting
2

allknowing,

15/10/2008 12:30:40
Question.

At the moment, you pass camera A on the inside lane, come camera B, just switch to the outside lane and you wont receive a fine. Why? becuase these cameras work using the basic D=ST. The cameras know how far apart each one is, and also the time. But if you change that assumption by switching lane, its no longer reliable, as the distance covered is greater.Thats why they have a camera over each lane, and they assume drivers havnt switched lanes, a loophole many people have used to get tickets cancelled.

Therefore, how will these new ones get around that? Whos to say i havnt switched lanes 10 times, therefore adding 50meters to my distance travelled??
3

Eric Alfa,

St Albans 15/10/2008 12:32:45
There is no evidence that compliance with speed limits reduces collisions.
No one has ever proved that a speed camera would have prevented a collision (real or imaginary)
There are several documented examples of cameras contributing to collisions (some shown on BBC earlier this year).
Road fatalities in Northern Scotland have increased 30% annually since cameras were introduced in 2004. The Director of the Scottish Camera Programme is in denial that cameras reduce road safety.
Could someone please explain exactly how this is a road safety initiative and how it will prevent a single collision or death. Cameras make a negative net contribution to road safety.
4

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 15/10/2008 12:38:31
#4 Ha Ha Ha Ha !
Aye thats right, speeding at 50-mph through town is not dangerous, it's the speed cameras causing the 3,500 road deaths every year !
Brain of Brition.
5

Plodjfriss, Hammer of the Numpties,

Edinburgh 15/10/2008 12:42:27
#3: "Road fatalities in Northern Scotland have increased 30% annually since cameras were introduced in 2004."

Could you tell us the figures for the rest of the UK?
6

Eric Alfa,

St Albans 15/10/2008 12:52:16
And they will have made sure that enough drivers allow their speed to creep over the prevailing limit to ensure the £300k plus operating costs are recovered plus "profit" for the Treasury.
Revenue generation disguised as safety = FRAUD.
7

Eric Alfa,

St Albans 15/10/2008 12:58:49
#5 I don't know all of them but several counties (Sussex, Dorset, Suffolk, and others) have appalling figures in the camera era. In Herts, where I live, the fatalities have not really changed since the mid 1990s and there have been some peaks, despite wild and bogus claims for the success of cameras "at camera sites" - nothing more than a statisical con.
8

fresian,

edinburgh 15/10/2008 13:00:15
Interesting that the article in todays daily mail reports that Swindon Council is the latest one to start abolishing these cash cows.
9

fresian,

edinburgh 15/10/2008 13:04:05
4 Raga, dont be such a simplistic tw4t. 50mph on a quiet road at 2am in the morning is more dangerous than 30mph on a busy street in the rush hour... Guess what one you'd be done for. Speed in itself does not kill, inappropriate speed for the road conditions can contribute to accidents as can braking sharply because you see a speed camera ahead. Are you really suggesting that if everyone travels at walking pace, there will not be any more road accidents??
10

fresian,

edinburgh 15/10/2008 13:05:15
Sorry, I meant to say "50mph on a quiet road at 2am in the morning is not more dangerous than 30mph on a busy street in the rush hour... Guess what one you'd be done for. Speed in itself does not kill, inappropriate speed for the road conditions can contribute to accidents as can braking sharply because you see a speed camera ahead. Are you really suggesting that if everyone travels at walking pace, there will not be any more road accidents??"
11

fresian,

edinburgh 15/10/2008 13:06:02
Sorry, I meant to say, "50mph on a quiet road at 2am in the morning is not more dangerous than 30mph on a busy street in the rush hour... Guess what one you'd be done for. Speed in itself does not kill, inappropriate speed for the road conditions can contribute to accidents as can braking sharply because you see a speed camera ahead. Are you really suggesting that if everyone travels at walking pace, there will not be any more road accidents??
12

Plodjfriss, Hammer of the Numpties,

Edinburgh 15/10/2008 13:07:40
#7. Another thing that's happened since speed cameras have been introduced is an astronomical rise in the use of mobile phones. Do you think it's possible that this might have any correlation with accident rates?
13

The Hon. Liam Fairtod,

15/10/2008 13:08:59
Right then. Now that technology has reached a point where our speed can be constantly monitored. Can we now start a proper debate around setting sensible speed limits?
14

Eric Alfa,

15/10/2008 13:13:18
#12
I'm sure phones have contributed. But that does not explain why the camera partnerships have published misleading information and lies to cover up their failures.
They are culpable and fraudulent.
15

Speedy Gonzales,

Edinburgh 15/10/2008 13:32:07
Personally, I'm not inerested whether 'cameras save lives' as there are views that back it up and expert opinion that knock it down. However, for those of us that drive, we know there are legal maximum and minimum limits. If we breach those, we know there is a possibility that plod will come along and have a word with us, I wouldn't expect anything else. Now, technology can achieve that goal for a lot less money and covering a larger area. Let's forget about plod having the opportuntiy to use common sense, or his ability to check the vehicle for general road worthiness. Cameras only check whether you were speeding, and by how much. If necessary, you get a fine/points/ban.
What is the big problem, you speed, you get caught. There is no excuse, even modern day sat-nav devices warn when you are exceeding the speed on any given road.
I've had my 3 points and £60 fine, and today, I still sped. However, if these cameras were to roll out, and I wished to keep my job, you can bet I will drive less larry leadfoot and more driving miss daisy!
16

Billy Bob Jnr,

15/10/2008 13:36:28
"Hugh Bladon, spokesman for the Association of British Drivers, believes the cameras could cause an increase in accidents as drivers become obsessed with watching their speed. "What we don't need is people worrying about the speed they're driving at – let's have people wondering about how they're driving and not looking at the speedometer the whole time."

Surely thats all part of driving safely. How did they pass their driving tests without checking their speedos the whole time? Do they just check it once every five minutes and assume it's alright the rest of the time.

17

Top Starfish,

15/10/2008 13:37:22
#2 Perhaps not so All-knowing - The existing SPECS can catch you, even if you change lanes - & anyone who argues they travelled 50M futher and therfore travelled even faster than clocked would be a bit daft now wouldn't they!
The best thing about these cameras is that they get such good general compliance that hardly any tickets go out! The only people who loose out are the idiots that think they know better!
18

Eric Alfa,

15/10/2008 13:38:09
#15
I would agree if cameras did not bring with them a huge number of negative side effects that cause more problems than they solve.
Remember their motto - keep your eyes on your speed, not on the road!
19

Speedy Gonzales,

Edinburgh 15/10/2008 13:56:19
#18
Speed Cameras, in my opinion, if used properly will catch those who speed over a posted limit by an agreed margin, those caught should recieve fine and points. Do it enough times they will lose license then any chance of them speeding again should be removed from the equation. No speeding no points.
As for eyes on the speed not road, I think that is complete bunkum. Before speed cameras, or even hand held radar, drivers had to obey the limit. When driving, a driver makes loads of calculations, visual/aural etc. If you can't drive a car, keeping it between the lines at a given speed, observe all mirrors as weel as what is going on in front of you, then perhaps you shouldn't be driving.
Has there actually been a case where a car has been involved in an incident and the driver has claimed he
was distracted because he was looking out for cameras?

If the money/fine thing is an issue, perhaps we should drop it, issue points only. I'm sure the treasury isn't banking on us all handing over £60 each year for these 'misdemeanours'.

I can't immediately think of any genuine negative sides a camera brings with the exception that some people believe they are an alternative to traffic cops, not an additional tool.
20

Eric Alfa,

15/10/2008 14:07:55
#19
The coroner and police believed that cameras contributed to the death of Mrs Myra Nevett in 2004.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/3721018.stm

The BBC recently showed footage from the camera operators of cars crashing when they reacted badly to seeing cameras.

Also, speed limits have been adjusted downwards to unrealistic levels to ensure revenue to pay for the cameras and therefore its a very different situation to the police monitoring of old.

I've been researching this topic thoroughly for a year and know that cameras are bad for road safety. That's why I'll be submitting a dossier to the Serious Fraiud Office before the end of the year.
21

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 15/10/2008 14:26:36
This won't happen.

The same as cat's eye speed cameras never happened.

Speed cameras should be scrapped in any case.
22

Speedy Gonzales,

Edinburgh 15/10/2008 15:58:51
#20
I don't wish to nit-pick over someones death but nowhere in that article does it say cameras contributed to her death, in fact, it doesn't even say there was a camera. It said cameras MAY have distracted the driver, the PC even says 'cameras COULD distract'. I could give you loads of distractions people encounter whilst driving, none of them though 'make it ok' to knock someone down. This driver was charged for driving without due care and attention.
Another thing, this is a coroners report. Haveing read a few of these in my time, they take everything in consideration to try and illustrate the hows and whys something happened. I have seen a report for someone that was killed on a building site by faulty safety equipment. The coroner noted the deceased's sleep patterns and the fact that another member of the gang had matrimonial issues?!?
Fact was the driver in this case knocked someone over, the coroner listed possible factors that may have contributed to the accident. Cameras and poor lighting was mentioned, I daresay weather and road conditions were also, doesn't mean that's the reason WHY it happened.

Good luck with your dossier but I doubt you'll get very far. I belive various motoring organisations in the past have fought and yet failed against speed cameras in certain areas.
23

Dragonlord,

15/10/2008 19:12:20
The camera's are a con. The one at the top of Liberton Brae was introduced after a woman ran in front of a bus, thinking it was stopping at the bus stop, when it clearly wasn't. I witnessed the "accident" and it was a simple case of one stupid woman trying to catch a bus.....mmmm she certainly caught it right enough!
24

Eric Alfa,

15/10/2008 20:09:38
#23 Dragonlord is quite right - a speed camera would not have prevented this accident.

A collision requires a hazardous condition (bald tyre, wet surface, drunk driver, etc) and an initiating event (sudden lane change, misjudged overtake, etc). That triggers an accident sequence which will become a collision/casualties unless something can stop it. Driver reaction, anti-lock brakes, crash-barriers, seat belts, airbags, etc can all mitigate the likelihood of a crash or its severity.
For the last few weeks I have been challenging some of this country's leading camera supporters to explain how a camera can either remove the hazardous condition, the initiating event or mitigate the sequence once it has been triggered. They have FAILED to provide a credible scenario.
My conjecture is that cameras have never prevented a collision or saved a life. Conversely, there are several documented examples of where cameras have contributed to accidents and even deaths (I have mentioned some in earlier postings). Safety cameras????

Apparent success at camera sites is all in the statistics - cameras installed after an unusually high instance of accidents (regression to the mean).
Plenty of other bogus and fraudulent claims are made for cameras.
I'm a safety professional and my analysis suggests that not only do cameras not work but they almost certainly have a negative net safety impact, while the Partnerships and authorities lie about their success.

They must go before someone else gets killed because of them.
25

One-man-bucket's older twin,

16/10/2008 00:02:08
Much more effective than cameras, if you REALLY want to make people drive safely, would be a big spike in the middle of the steering wheel. Ban all safety measures built into cars, and watch average speeds fall. Volvos have a good reputation for keeping drivers/passengers safe. That, I guess, is why most Volvo owners are such incompetent drivers.
26

PeterhatUK,

Bristol 16/10/2008 18:47:43
#16 "How did they pass their driving tests without checking their speedos the whole time?"

That may help to explain why new drivers have a disproportionate amount of accidents - until they wake up to the fact that there's a lot more to driving than ensuring you're within the speed limits
27

bobwmac,

New Mexico/Stirlingshire 18/10/2008 15:46:25
I've done some time and motion studies over the years on various journeys.

On my 25 mile Scottish commute I drove within and under the varying speed limits, arriving at 72 beats per minute.

I drove the same route at the same time of day driving as though I had terminal diarrhoea and saved 10 minutes of time while putting extra miles on the engine, tyres and brakes and reducing mpg by 24%.

Nowadays, I am loathe to overtake anyone on our busy, overcrowded roads, as the overtaken driver eventually cruises up behind me at the next hold-up... and don't I feel a right eedjit? All that hash and dash and I can't lose a little old lady with a quarter of my horsepower!


 

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