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What if ... Scotland was independent?



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Published Date: 12 October 2008
WOULD Scotland's economy have coped better if a referendum had already been held, a "yes" vote obtained and sovereignty secured?
An obvious answer might be expected from Alex Salmond, whose background as an economist should make it easier for him to make a detailed case for an independent Scotland being better placed to weather the current financial meltdown.

So where bette
r to start than ask the Scottish Government, you might think. However, our enquiries were met with generalities. A spokesman reckoned that "having the maximum economic levers at our disposal would give Scotland the best possible opportunities to secure jobs, investment and stability".

He added: "Independence would give us the tools we need to achieve our full potential."

What was conspicuously lacking, despite some pointed and protracted enquiries, were practical examples of what those tools were, or how an independent Scotland could deploy them to tackle the virulent short-term problems created by the intense turbulence in the financial system.

The heart of the problem for the SNP is that this is a global problem over which it cannot pretend to have any control. Salmond has fulminated against the "spivs" in London, but he is largely powerless on this issue – even regarding proud "Scottish" institutions.

HBOS and RBS are in difficulties partly because of bad timing but primarily because they have invested unwisely and are now over-leveraged, whether through massive overexposure to the domestic property market or as a result of the Royal Bank's controversial acquisition of ABN Amro. This has an impact on their share price and, in the current credit crisis, their ability to borrow funds essential to their short-term survival. Yet there are some measures an independent Scotland could take.

Salmond is on record as saying that he would have followed Ireland's lead and explicitly guaranteed all savings in Scottish banks for a set period (although Unionists could counter that Alistair Darling has already effectively guaranteed all savings in British banks).

The SNP's other main idea for ameliorating the effects of the credit crunch concerns jobs. An independent Scotland, they say, could vary the rate of corporate taxation sufficiently to ensure that, if HBOS is taken over by Lloyds TSB, for instance, jobs would be saved by providing enough incentives for there to be no question of the merged company's headquarters being anywhere but Edinburgh.

An independent Scotland would, however, also be part of the euro, so there would be little scope for reacting to a downturn with an immediate cut in interest rates, although if recent history is any guide these would be lower than those in the UK anyway.

An independent Scotland might also be able to react more quickly, as Norway did during a previous crisis. Then, Norway effectively semi-nationalised its banking system in a move which is acknowledged as one of the most effective piece of government interventions into a country's financial system, and is now the blueprint for Darling's latest actions.

Just whether smaller countries are better-placed to take remedial action is a moot point, according to economist John McLaren, who worked for the Labour/Lib Dem coalition Government at Holyrood. Size, he points out, is not important in itself: Iceland and Ireland are in dire straits, but the US isn't looking too clever either.

While many of the developed world's best performing countries are approximately the same size as Scotland, many have economies based on one or two niche sectors, which can make them very vulnerable. Scotland's likely dependence on a commodity as volatile as oil would certainly bring it into that category.

The Armageddon scenario emerged during a discussion with a senior Edinburgh banker.

Asked what would have happened had Scotland been independent when this crisis hit, he said: "HBOS would have gone bust and RBS would have followed five days later. The Scottish state simply wouldn't have enough money to rescue two banks of that size as Iceland has done. As it would have been a Scottish problem rather than a British one – they'd both have gone to the wall."





The full article contains 680 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Castaway,

12/10/2008 00:17:13
What if ... Scotland was independent ?
Norway's sovereign wealth fund grew to a preliminary $364.2 billion in August from 2.019 in July.September 12, 2008
The initial investment of $300 million was made in the spring of 1996.
2

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 01:21:09
The amount of gloating from the unionists over the Scottish banks' problems should dispel all doubt that they have Scotland's best interests at heart. If you let other people run your affairs then they will screw you over.
3

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 01:41:39
'Asked what would have happened had Scotland been independent when this crisis hit, he said: "HBOS would have gone bust and RBS would have followed five days later.'

Or-the banks would have been much tighter regulated and we'd have had an oil fund in place to help deal with such emergencies. These hypothetical questions work both ways.
4

SNP hypocrisy,

12/10/2008 03:16:07
We'd be exactly like Iceland right now. Skint, bankrupt and friendless. In fact worse, since we couldn't even ask our nearest neighbour for help. Wake up Scotland! Salmonds figures just don't add up, they never did and they never will. The SNP are a joke party with joke politics. Open your eyes and see what is happening to countries like Iceland and Norway. It's a global problem!
5

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 03:26:36
#4 Maybe you should wait and see how the UK fairs before getting too smug. I think Norway and Iceland will be Ok myself. At least they're in control of their own destiny. They're not relying on the whims of their neighbour for their survival as we are.
6

SNP hypocrisy,

12/10/2008 03:30:45
1. Norway has had to beg the US Federal Reserve for a $5 billion (£2.9 billion) lifeline; Iceland is currently bankrupt.

Do explain in which way you imagine that either of these two countries a model for what Scotland supposedly aspires to?
7

SNP hypocrisy,

12/10/2008 03:34:01
5. In which way was I being smug, for simply stating the facts? If your belief in the SNP is to the point of denial then you are the smug one.

Reality bites, this is what SNP offers - BANKRUPTCY! POVERTY! RECESSION - that we could not recover from.
8

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 03:44:38
Icelands' banks are bankrupt. Individuals in Iceland aren't necessarily bankrupt. They will recover because they are a creative, clever and independent people. Ditto Norway. We in Scotland on the other hand will have to hope that Westminster will allow us to.
9

donald,

glasgow 12/10/2008 05:55:07
No Ifs. No buts. Just do it. Independence Now!
10

care4,

Forfar 12/10/2008 08:02:14
#6 I am neither strongly in favour of, nor strongly against, the nationalist agenda but please explain where the UK government gets the money to finance an economy which produces less than it spends? The UK runs a deficit year on year of billions of pounds. If it had not been for the black wealth coming out from under the north sea it would not have been able to pay its lease lend debt to the USA. Yet you somehow imagine that Scotland's wealth would somehow drop to such an extent that its banks would go to the wall and the country would also be bankrupt.
11

Linda,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 10:14:28
Study Norway Norway Norway Norway Norway Norway
Oil surplus and no banking crisis.
12

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 11:59:20
12Linda
"Study Norway Norway Norway Norway Norway Norway"

Yes indeed. It has an oil fund but also :
Income tax at 28% (UK 20%)
VAT at 24% (UK 17.5%)
VAT at 12% on food (UK 0%)

That is why it has money left over to put in an oil fund

Also for the last 10 years Norway's oil production has been 40-50% higher than total UK production (check IEA figures) but is population is about 10% less than Scotland. If, as the SNP asserts, Scotland is entitled to 82.5% of UK revenues then you also have to consider that production in Norway would be in the region of 80-90% higher per person than that of Scotland.
13

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 12/10/2008 17:35:25
#4

Iceland is a small country which was doing well but is now doing badly in the current climate. It is not Scotland. It has a lot less resources than Scotland and a far smaller less diverse economy.

Ireland has led Europe in it's swift response to the credit crunch. Norway has vast reserves of finance to help tackle it.

Brown has thrown away his financial rules and taken a massive gamble. Perhaps it will work, perhaps it won't but it no way discredits the prospects of an independent Scotland.

We don't have the levers to control our economy at the moment and so we are reliant on the UK Governments decisions. That includes the decision to remove regulation from the financial markets and give the Bank of England control over all interest rates.

We currently require a large interest rate cut to boost the economy but the BOE won't do it. We need injections of finance for the Banks but only because they have been badly regulated.

Unionists have a consatant 'glass is half empty' view of Scotland. It actually is starting to sound like a genuine hatred of the place. It's not attractive and it won't win friends and influence people.

It certainly won't help you win a future referendum and the glee at HBOS and RBOS's pains is frankly plain sickening.
14

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/10/2008 19:41:34
#12 Linda

Why? Norway has about double the UK's proven oil and gas reserves, about 75% higher production and over double the government revenues. You're in pipedream territory.
15

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/10/2008 19:42:56
#1 Castaway

The SNP said in a November 2006 press release, and John Swinney confirmed the following January, that their proposed oil fund would, within ten years, grow to £90 billion and then produce annual investment revenues of £5.5 billion. That corresponds to a 6.1% return on capital and would require the allocation of around £6.6 billion per year for the first ten years after independence.

But GERS 2007, published under this SNP administration, found a fiscal deficit for Scotland of £2.7 billion, including a similar geographic allocation of North Sea revenues to Scotland as might occur under independence.

So we could be staring down the barrel (no pun intended) of a combined fiscal deficit of around £9 billion per year for the first decade. That’s about 10% of GDP, even before factoring in our per capita share of UK public debt. Where’s the scope for the kind of corporation tax cuts that the SNP like to tell us could stimulate rapid economic growth? That huge fiscal gap would have to be filled through some combination of additional taxes, public service cuts and/or government borrowing.
16

AM2,

Scotland,UK 12/10/2008 19:45:21
#14 joeMiddleton

Re: "It actually is starting to sound like a genuine hatred of the place."

Utter nonsense. And that bizarre comment reveals a great deal more about your mindset than it does about the those of us who are of the opinion that Scotland's interests are best served within a strong United Kingdom.
17

Tom R,

12/10/2008 22:48:52
HBOS and RBS are very significant to ENGLAND as well as Scotland.

If Scotland were already independent the English government would have been desperate to meet with Salmond (as PM of an independent Scotland having much more influence and power re the banks than he does now) to help him (if he decided he needed any) to assist the banks.

18

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 13/10/2008 08:19:47
#4,5,7 SNP Hippo

The UK economy is $2.772 Trillion in Size which is 4% of the worlds economy of $68Trillion

The UK ranks 2nd in total external debt. Its $10.45 Trillion in external debt is over 20% of the world wide total of $51.78 Trillion

Its Debt to GDP Ratio is 490%. The US which is the worlds largest debtor has a Debt to GDP ratio of 99%.

On a per capita basis, Irelands external Debt is $130,000. Icelands is $2,269. The UK is at $189,855.

It is nice to see Gordon throwing all this money around that be doesn't have to save the banks. But who is going to buy Gordon's Junk Bonds? People might realize the emperor has no clothes. What then, crank up the printing presses? Or go cap in hand to the IMF?

The UK is going down the plughole. Scotland would be start to get out as soon as possible.



19

Richard Lionheart,

13/10/2008 09:53:52
What we do not know is what assets Gordon Brown has given as security to whoever he is borrowing all this money from.

He may have screwed not only Scotland but UK PLC as well!

One thing we do know about Gordon after 11 years of Budgets the devil is always, always in the (hidden) detail.

 

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