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BMI = w÷h²* The formula to beat obesity, claims SNP

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Published Date: 15 April 2009
ALL primary school children in Scotland will be checked for obesity once a year under radical SNP plans to improve the country's appalling health record, The Scotsman has learned.
Nationalists will vote this weekend to back regular weight and height tests for all primary school children.

The information will be used to calculate the body mass index (BMI) of every child in Scotland, which will be updated annually, allowing
doctors and even teachers to work out which children are overweight or obese.

While the plan is in its early stages, the information could be used to develop early intervention plans at school, include special diets and exercise regimes. Parents would also be told.

The proposal received a cautious welcome from health experts and opposition politicians yesterday, but with warnings that the information had to be used sensitively to avoid stigmatising those children deemed overweight or obese.

Scotland has a poor record on childhood obesity and the situation is deteriorating. Recent figures showed more than a fifth of primary one children in Scotland were overweight, 8.5 per cent obese and 4.3 per cent severely obese.

By the age of 12, more than a third were overweight, including almost 20 per cent who were obese. The trend is expected to worsen.

Half of Scottish 13-year-olds take sugary drinks and eat sweets daily, while fewer than a quarter have vegetables daily.

The statistics have already spurred the Scottish Government into new measures, including a move towards free school meals for the early years of primary schools and more exercise time in the school day.

Despite this, Scotland has retained its place as the fattest nation in the UK and experts warn of a time-bomb, with large numbers of overweight children becoming obese in later life.

The SNP is poised to push the agenda even further on this issue at the party's Spring conference in Glasgow this weekend.

SNP insiders have told The Scotsman that the plan for BMI checks is likely to be passed.

Other plans in the conference motion include training for newly qualified teachers to help them spot and tackle obesity in children and "fun exercise classes" to persuade more youngsters to get active.

The Nationalist motion also calls for supervised "walk-to-school" systems for primary school children in an effort to get parents to park at organised drop zones away from schools where the children can be picked up by teachers and walked to school in groups.

At the moment, all children have their height and weight measured when they arrive at primary school and their body mass index is calculated.

However, this is done only once, and the information is only used for compiling national statistics. If obesity is detected, the child's parents are not told and neither is the school.

Dr Ewan Bell, a consultant specialising in adult obesity at Dumfries and Galloway Royal Infirmary, said there was little point assessing BMI if no follow-up action was taken.

He said the SNP plan was fine as a starting point, but the real impact would only be felt if the information was used properly and sensitively to tackle the problem.

"Just recording the data is useless," Dr Bell said. "It might give you an evaluation of the size of the problem but it has to be used sensitively to educate parents."

He said he believed the information should be shared with parents, to help them put together better diets for their children and help them get more exercise.

"You can't just have a queue of children waiting in line to be weighed, with some being told they are overweight. You have got to deliver the message in a very sensitive way," said Dr Bell.

"You don't want kids to get a complex or to be affected psychologically."

However, Jackson Carlaw, for the Conservatives, warned against the plan.

He said: "The last thing we need is primary school children being stigmatised and potentially bullied by their peers having been formally branded as 'obese' by the state."

Ross Finnie, for the Liberal Democrats, was cautiously optimistic. He said: "Annual health checks to help tackle the worrying rise in childhood obesity must come as part of a wholesale restructuring of health checks we give to young people."

Early intervention is best way to establish healthy eating habits

CHILDHOOD obesity is a growing problem in Scotland – about one in five primary one children are overweight, including nearly 8 per cent who are obese, a proportion which rises as they get older.

Obese children may be teased or find it hard to make friends, and the exercise which would help them to lose weight is harder to do. But these visible effects are just the tip of the iceberg – obese children are storing up health problems for the future.

But is calculating the body mass index of children the way forward? The information will certainly be useful, but then we have to consider how it's used.

We need to help children who are overweight, but we don't want them to feel stigmatised.

It's a very sensitive problem. Targeting every child – with initiatives designed to teach them all how to eat healthily, and make this easy and fun – seems to be the best solution.

It's good for everyone, whatever weight they are. But it's very hard to stand by and watch if a severely obese child appears not to be benefiting.

Parents have a big responsibility – they are important role models, and for younger children, they are the main food providers. And family meals are an ideal place for trying new foods.

But schools can also play an important part. They can teach children about healthy foods, and make it 'real' for them. They can ensure that the foods they serve are healthy and attractive to children.

The nutritional improvements in school meals are great progress, but we need to maintain, and preferably increase, the uptake of school dinners.

The time when children are most open to change is when they are young – it's much harder to persuade a teenager to mend their dietary ways.

This means that primary school – and even younger – is the time to establish good eating habits.

• Carina Norris is a Registered Nutritionist.

Teaching children to cook would be more effective

"I'd be concerned until it was clear whether this information was going to be collected anonymously, for policy purposes, or whether children and their parents were going to be told what their BMI (body mass index] is.

"I would oppose it if children were told what their BMIs were and if it became a benchmark for each individual child.

"I'd be very concerned about it, partly because children do compare with each other and it could lead to bullying, and partly because having a numerical measurement doesn't look at the whole person, and doesn't take into consideration issues around weight such as fitness and height.

"Plus, primary age children can't do anything about the lifestyle choices their parents make for them.

"There are also psychological, social and cultural issues about people's relationships with food and health and self-esteem and to load that onto primary age children would be grossly irresponsible and grossly unfair.

"It would be absolutely appalling to tell a child that they didn't fit within a parameter, because if you tell a child they don't fit in it is not only stigmatising but deeply damaging. Also if you do it every year, then what's the yardstick going to be, because children grow so differently?

"I'd be far more interested in the SNP creating working kitchens in every school and introducing cooking from a very young age. If they learned to cook healthily, they could change the habits of a generation by having a practical skil.

"As a parent it is a constant battle against our cultural norms which is that children like chips and sweets, and we have a reward culture around food, where party food is sweets and sweet things.

"That is such a deeply entrenched social culture that measuring is not going to change that.

"The real problem is that children are not getting enough exercise in schools, because there aren't the gym facilities or the time on the timetable.

"Children are coming across BMI in Wii Fit, so clearly they are already talking about it ."

• Tina Woolnough is a founder member of Edinburgh-based parent pressure group Parents in Partnership, and has two daughters aged 15 and 13 and a son aged ten.





The full article contains 1428 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 14 April 2009 9:15 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Obesity
 
1

,

14/04/2009 22:17:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

Soosider,

Glasgow 15/04/2009 00:13:23
This idea of getting an accurate measurement of the scale of the obesity problem can only be the starting position. It requires many related initiatives to begin to turn round the increasingly serious problem of obesity and related health problems. Interestingly there are some other useful suggestions in the article. What is required is a long term strategy, one that will not be sacrificed for short term political gain. The Scottish government is to be congratulated on at least starting the process.
3

famous 15,

Edinburgh 15/04/2009 00:24:11
Sadly'obesity can be co-related with child poverty. Tory and Labour disdain for the poor has to be addressed. If Scotland is to have a future it must address poverty.
4

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 15/04/2009 00:26:11
France, Spain, Italy, Germany: all large organisations have to provide a proper lunch. It's primary education. In my day I was a bit coddled, went home to my mother's cooking. School food wasn't appetising. But it should be! We have people (CEOs no less) like Peter Peacock instead of proper cooks in schools!
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/04/2009 00:34:43


We all know that our Mr Salmond is well qualified in this area!
Makes no surprise then,....
.. "BMI = w÷h²* The formula to beat obesity, claims SNP"

One to many kebab, and you dream these formula's in your sleep,.....'HUH' Mr Salm***?

6

fourthletter,

Edinburgh 15/04/2009 00:44:19
The BMI is completely inaccurate and we will be effectively be forcing children to lose weight when they happen to just be tall or have good muscle mass.
We just need a body fat percentile instead BMI is complete nonsense.
7

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/04/2009 01:04:23

Canes Pugnaces ~6,

Very Funny!, the "street" that you talk about can only be the one that leads you to the Scottish Parliament.

8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/04/2009 01:05:15

oops #8, :)
9

Dark Lochnagar,

http://darklochnagar.blogspot.com 15/04/2009 01:08:15
#6 Charles.
Why do you Unionists insist on trying to make fun of the FM's weight as a alternative to congratulating him and the SNP on a very worthwhile proposal. So what if he is a bit overweight, what difference does it make to his brain?

You morons are thankfully becoming increasingly isolated. I suppose it's a bit like being the last of your mates to drink drive.
10

subrosa,

15/04/2009 01:17:05
"It would be absolutely appalling to tell a child that they didn't fit within a parameter, because if you tell a child they don't fit in it is not only stigmatising but deeply damaging. Also if you do it every year, then what's the yardstick going to be, because children grow so differently?"

Obesity is someone who is nearly twice the weight of the average person of their age and height.

What's appalling about telling someone they're obese? For gawd sake what's this world coming to when you can't inform a child they have to have a few less sweeties, chips and crisps or they've a big possibility of being ill when they're older?

Sometimes children have to hear the realities of life. How on earth are they to learn otherwise.

11

Julian.,

edinburgh 15/04/2009 01:19:30
Maybe they should do something with school dinners. In my day pies, chips and crisps were always top of the menu. Is this still the case or have we moved on from that now?


#11 Dark Lochnagar

I think the point Charles was making is that he should lead by example...which seems fair enough.

12

DROK,

working through fridge guilt 15/04/2009 01:26:53
bit of a non-starter, as
whisky+pies+irn bru
divided by minimal self-esteem=
voter vulnerable to flattery+
outrageous promises
13

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 15/04/2009 01:30:26
We're not moving on because we're not promoting civilised dining like our continental neighbours and the Japanese. In fact we've been subcontracting to the cheapest operators. You see the same thing in hospitals.

(eg Skipper Macphail lifted some chips and surrounding peas and losh, there as a little bitty of fish)

Privatise everything!

I agree that Alex should go on a summer diet as he's been working and worrying too hard for us.
14

qohldr,

15/04/2009 02:51:54
My son at the age of 12 was 5'2" and had a 40 inch waist, He had always been small and chubby.
He did not go on any fitness regime or change his eating habits yet by the age of 17 he had a 32" waist.
He had also shot up to 6'2" but these people now a days would be hauling both my wife and I across the coals for his size in his early years.
There are quite a few rugby players at the top of their game who using the BMI index would be classed as overweight.
15

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/04/2009 03:15:21


Dark Lochnagar ~11,

I am neither a "Unionist", or have any interest in politics!

Point IS!, when some are making connotation's of political correctness, and suggesting that they will super tax,...'Full Fat Milk', as they wanted to do with chocolate, but never got away with, 'of-course', I will comment on the ones that want to intrude into my life, with utter, sheer lunacies, it can be labour, conservative, the 'mad raving loony party', or Lord Such!

Idiocies, only deserve contempt, if they suggest in connotation's, as this one, the utter control, of what we do in our lives, as what we eat, or teach our Children to eat!

Quite Frankly!,...I WILL HAVE NONE OF IT!

I am neither stupid or will be 'brainwashed'!

My Children, are a 'Glorious' example to us all!
(now adults)

I Will Never, have me, tell Me, what to 'Feed Them'!

Either in Stupid "Super Tax", or the suggestion's of it!

As in this News, as the next Great Suggestion of Madness!


16

Phil C,

15/04/2009 06:58:54
#5 Yok "France, Spain, Italy, Germany: all large organisations have to provide a proper lunch."

We could take many lessons from our European neighbours. This proposal is more SNP commonsense but it must be accompanied by better food in primary schools.

Steps have already been taken to remove some of the rubbish from our schools, often to much moaning. Improvements are being made all over the UK, but many kids go out and eat stuff like sausage rolls, chips or buttered baguettes every day. I'm no expert but believe me this is not good nourishing healthy food!

....And what a surprise, many of our kids are fatties and will not lead healthy lives! Recent film showing 'responsible' parents shoving cr*p through school railings so that their precious kids get something 'decent' to eat sum up the problem.

More power to the SNP as they fight to reverse decades of Labour neglect.
17

Angoos,

Baku, Azerbaijan 15/04/2009 07:15:27
Why are these hair brained schemes thought up by stupid politicians ? BMI ?? Isn't that an airline ??

The easy solution to the "obesity problem" that is affecting the kids of today is to bring back compulsary P.E. in schools at least twice a week. This would ensure that kids are getting regular excercise and therefore burning off the calories. Job's a fatty !! ;o)
18

Phil C,

15/04/2009 07:17:41
#17 qohldr

By your thinking everything's ok then? Let's not try to educate our children. We'll fatten them up and they'll all turn into strapping 6'2 hunks or nice fit prop forwards. I suppose the girls could be weightlifters!

Parents should be hauled over the coals if they don't promote healthy eating. It's a basic necessity of growing up.
19

Phil C,

15/04/2009 07:33:52
#20 Angoos

It stands for Body Mass Index and it is recognised measure of weight in relation to health, at a given point in time. It is intended as a guide and works very well.

I'm sure this hair-brained scheme was thought up by health experts and that stupid politicians are just jumping on the bandwagon. They couldn't possibly have a care for our nation's future! Could they?

BMI is also an airline, but that would just be trivialising a serious issue.

I totally agree with your point on PE and exercise though, but coupled with better food for our children and more awareness from parents and adults :)
20

Phil C,

15/04/2009 07:47:02
#18 Charlie - "I am neither a "Unionist", or have any interest in politics!"

You are, however, extremely opinionated, pompous and stroppy! Keep up the good work!
21

fife runner,

15/04/2009 07:55:38
problem using BMI is some who are athletic build and muscular would show positive. It is now ackowledged best way is to measure waist in relation to hips. So for men waist bigger than 36" is considerd best . It is because most fat goes on the waist and hips.
22

paulr,

edinburgh 15/04/2009 08:04:36
BMI has been proven over the years to be totally inaccurate and misleading.
As a concerned parent, my kids will not be subjected to height and weight checks by school teachers or school quacks regardless of the decisions reached by the SNP.
23

,

15/04/2009 08:06:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

Am Fidhleir Lomartach,

15/04/2009 08:08:31
No. 24. I hope you are not doing the assessment, because you write nonsense. Waist:hip ratio for men should be <0.95 for low risk, and for women <0.80. 'Ratio' means that you divide the waist measurement by the hip measurement. The actual measurements are irrelevant.
25

,

15/04/2009 08:17:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

,

15/04/2009 08:25:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
27

The Tin Man,

15/04/2009 08:26:34
#29 funny

It is called spin. Yesterday Labour accused the SNP of renaging on it's free swimming for schoolkids pledge. So, today the SNP PR department have made a press release saying the SNP intends to make kids healthier by weighing and measuring them. Scottish politics is quite riveting....
28

DaveK,

Edinburgh 15/04/2009 08:31:18
Alex is huge now and getting bigger by the week are people realy going to listen to the SNP over weight?
29

,

15/04/2009 08:31:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
30

A Crofter,

Obese Arce of Blubber 15/04/2009 08:35:03
So what is FatMan's BMI?
31

Marcus Fenix,

The Valley 15/04/2009 08:39:41
It's now time for my usual witty remarks:

(Brace yourself)



HEY FATTY BOOM BOOM!
32

,

15/04/2009 08:42:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

Highland Mist,

15/04/2009 08:49:03
Yet again treating the syptom and not the actual cause of it!!!!!

The childhood obesity problem comes from the parents who feed them high carbohydrate, high fat, high salt processed and nutritionally valueless food. They also get little or no exercise and that's 'the fault' of everyone - parents who won't walk or allow the children to walk and the teachers who won't provide proper PE lessons, don't allow the kids to kick a ball about (fear of being hurt and sued via the school playground), and pandering to the lowest denominator by not encouraging proper sporting competitiveness from an early age.

In other words, fried pizza suppers, mars bars, chip butties, packets of crisps and fizzy juice + sitting in a car to be ferried everywhere then being sat in front of a PC = obesity, coronary heart disease, hypertension, stroke and early death.

Dishing up 'healthy' food at school with turn the jnr CARB ADDICTS running out the gate and along to the nearest burger van or chippy - the problem is pandemic in our society and we need to get to the parents to show them that they are killing themselves - when parents faults are corrected the majority of children follow, like in every other social issue.
34

Highland Mist,

15/04/2009 08:51:08
#36, you have an addictive personality and have swapped one addiction for another - you need to figure out why you're doing it before you kill yourself or end up pretty ill!
35

qohldr,

15/04/2009 08:54:02
#21 Phil
By your thinking everything's ok then?

Not at all, There is a problem with some children being obese.
Unfortunately some people (those like yourself) are of the believe that because a child (or adult for that matter) who does not fall within the BMI criteria then they are obese, they must not eat healthily and do no or little exercise and that is not the case.
It used to be called puppy fat and the vast majority of children carry it, the vast majority of them lose it at some stage (some later than others) without any change in their diet or exercise.
36

,

15/04/2009 09:01:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 15/04/2009 09:07:45
on sunday i made the comment below on obesity
now talking of labour,in the inverleith ward,whos sitting labour councilor,and local resident is none other than councilor lesley (prada)hinds
i wish to know why,she wasnt up in arms about the former doctors surgery,at drylaw shopping centre(a stones throw from her house) is getting another chip shop,when we already have
1,Dominoes Pizza
2,Mr Lees Chinese Takeaway
3,Pappas Chipshop
4,Groathill Chipshop
5,Groathill chinese takeaway
6,Gerrys Fish and Chips/sit in cafe
7,another chinese take away in pennywell road
now these are all far to close to one another,
so now we see how obesity and coronary heart disease are rife in the Muirhouse(hinds old seat)and West Pilton
when the area is saturated in fat,yes i know all we have to do,is dont go in
but why so many ?,hmmm wonder how many brown wrappers were required
38

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 15/04/2009 09:09:16
then later that sunday night i added
update:i spoke with the boss of Pappas and he said no one wanted another takeaway shop,i asked him what councilor hinds thoughts on it were?,he replied they couldnt give a damn
so if locals dont want it,shopkeepers dont want it,why did it get to go ahead?
39

drunken proffet,

Tassy 15/04/2009 09:26:35
Well at present most kids are short or tall, skinny or fat. One item that I noticed in the fatter kids was the liking for fizzy drinks. If cutting out fizzy drinks does not work then the easiest way would be to just clone them. Alternatively find a registered nutritionist who reckons that today's kids are with a little help, pretty normal. Then clone her.
40

Phil C,

15/04/2009 09:31:42
#39 qohldr

I agree with much of what you say! I do not think BMI is the be all and end all. It could be part of the solution in changing society's thinking though, in that it acts as a guide to children, who might in turn educate their parents. It's been shown to be pointless trying to educate numpty parents directly!

Let's face it, we in Scotland do not have the best health record!! In fact it's about the worst in the civilised world- thanks to lack of education. We need a balanced diet and exercise to be the norm- not chips, pizzas, crisps, suasage rolls and sitting playing games. There's nothing wrong with all these things in moderation but there are so many good things to eat as well.

So why this resistance to a good initiative from the SNP. Labour are guilty of doing SFA and are killing our country. Let's try to fix it!
41

morris,

edinburgh 15/04/2009 09:39:20
32

Apparently they are. The most recent (arguably reliable) opinion poll I have seen showed a swing from Labour to SNP of 14.5% which means very few seats survive in Unionist hands in Scotland. Now you can contest the validity of the poll,the sample size etc but the conclusion was unambiguous.

The SNP are gaining on Labour,and when you consider that Labour cannot possibly win ,it shows a degree of common sense.

What I did find interesting was that even Glenrothes fell to the SNP.Its only an opinion poll of course,and its only today.What happens on polling day is what matters,but rest assured Gordon and Labour are FINISHED.They need divine intervention to avoid the biggest gubbing in history .
42

Dark Lochnagar,

http://darklochnagar.blogspot.com 15/04/2009 09:41:42
CHARLES

As usual you are not reading the story.

I am sure your children are fine and i agree that this big nanny state nurtured by Labour is suffocating.

However with less than 25% of Scottish children eating vegetables once a day, something has to be done, even if it is to change school meals. You can't unfortunately make them compulsory and we all remember the morons on the sink estates feeding their kids chips through the school railings rather than let them eat healthily in school.

Perhaps the reason for Alex Salmond's chubbiness is because he and his parents weren't able to use this programme when he was at school. He is then entitled to say look at me, your children can be better in adulthood.

Watch out for the trains when you are driving across the rail bridge!
43

thinking,

Scotland 15/04/2009 09:44:40
The problem with bmi is that it does not differentiate between fat weight and muscle weight. Muscle weight is much heavier than fat so a fit and healthy person could be classed as obese, when they are not, simply because they have developed muscle strength.
44

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 09:47:05
My mother in law isn't fat, but according to BMI she is about 1'6" too short.
45

Ewan Randall,

15/04/2009 09:54:20
Isn’t there a fine line between what is being proposed here and eugenics?
46

,

15/04/2009 09:59:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
47

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 10:06:03
I can't see a problem with these health checks. I remember the school dentist visiting in the 60s. Nobody was up in arms about that.

(Dippy - what a crazy comment.)
48

Ewan Randall,

15/04/2009 10:06:26
(#50) – (Dippy) – Why do you say the SNP is looking more and more like its predecessors every day?

Do you believe that the SNP really had Nazi predecessors?

Can you prove that the SNP had Nazi predecessors or are you all full of hot air?
49

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 10:06:41
Maybe Dippy is still miffed 'cos he remembers when the "nit nurse" paid a call.
50

G,

Bridgefoot 15/04/2009 10:08:50
"ALL primary school children in Scotland will be checked for obesity once a year under radical SNP plans to improve the country's appalling health record, The Scotsman has learned."

And what will they actually deliver????
The promised reductions in primary school classes never happened so I don't hold much hope for this "initiative"

51

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 10:15:23
"The promised reductions in primary school classes never happened so I don't hold much hope for this "initiative"

Maybe they're going for weight reductions.
52

Ewan Randall,

15/04/2009 10:20:12
Could this initiative end up handing out anorexia and bulimia rather than healthy eating habits?

53

Anonym,

15/04/2009 10:34:35
Ewan, I don't think so, and I wouldn't call it 'initiative'.
54

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 10:39:01
56 Ewan

Who knows, but We do have a problem with overweight kids. Did you see the article about the boom in type 2 diabetes?
55

Woolly Ian,

15/04/2009 10:40:37
#48 51 55

Hugh

You seem to have issues with weight. Is it a family thing and you are trying to promote dieting?
56

Ewan Randall,

15/04/2009 10:41:35
(#57) – (Anonym) – Do we not hear of pressure from the media causing kids to fall foul of eating disorders?

Why do you think this will not be just one more pressure to conform to the media ideal?
57

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 10:42:35
Woooooooolllllly Ian

No.
58

Ewan Randall,

15/04/2009 10:47:21
(#58) – (Hugh Roscombe) – Would I not be right in thinking that we art trying to tackle this problem after it has occurred instead of educating to stop it happening from the start?
59

Woolly Ian,

15/04/2009 10:50:56
#48

My mother-in-law has the same problem.
60

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 10:52:00
62

Education begins in the home.

Off for a coffee and a sticky bun.
61

Woolly Ian,

15/04/2009 10:55:32
Sounds more like a formula Ryanair would use to charge more, not BMI.
62

Vlad Tepes,

Targoviste 15/04/2009 11:00:10
BMI is not a good test on its own- professional rugby players eg are usually overweight according to this. Better to rely on teachers who actually know the kids to notice if they wobble a bit. Then they can intervene subtly without condemning the wean to a school life of low self esteem and bullying.
63

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 11:05:52
http://www.am-i-fat.com/

(this for kimba/St. George)
64

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 11:08:45
This article is ideal for Alternative (high octane) fuel head. Where is he?
65

Dunfesterin,

15/04/2009 11:09:13
You know how on http://ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com there is a "Have Your Say" comment generator, why does some bright spark not invent a Scotsman headline generator?

Something along the lines of:

LABOUR (BLASTS/ATTACKS/SLAMS) SNP FOR (swimming pools or BMI checks for kids or not recruiting enough cops or not spending 2000 quid per person in a recession)

Just think, this would keep Maddox in a job forever!!! And he wouldn't have to write anything!
66

AM2,

Scotland,UK 15/04/2009 11:22:49
Blue moon tonight?

I recognise the sensitivities which make tackling childhood obesity difficult but my gut reaction (pardon the pun) is that this particular SNP idea may have potential.
67

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 11:42:33
70 AM2

"This particular SNP idea may have potential."

Well knock me down and call me Gladys. Did I read post #70 correctly?

Are you well AM2?

68

AM2,

Scotland,UK 15/04/2009 11:50:59
#71 Hugh Roscombe

Thanks Gladys; I'm fine. But the fact is that the UK is one of the most obese countries in the world. Further, we have a particular problem in Scotland. This idea strikes me as a relatively inexpensive way of both gaining detailed knowledge about the nature of the problem and providing tailored advice to parents. The usual disclaimers about data security of course apply, but I don't see such issues as insurmountable.
69

Gina Gibson,

Wales 15/04/2009 11:58:26
If we are to use BMI to judge obesity then the Scottish Rugby player James Hamilton, who is 19st 8lbs and 6'8" tall, is offically obese as his BMI is over 30!

This just shows how useless BMI is at classifying anybody's level of fitness.
70

JCA REID,

Annan 15/04/2009 12:03:09
BMI is a waste of time! FACT!! It was dreamt up in the late 19th.Century by Insurance people & they took Marathon Runners as the norm. A simpler & more accurate way, avoiding using skinfold calipers to take measurements & put these results through complicated equations is to use the Waist/Hip ratio. A simple tape measurement around these two parts & convert to a ratio. Unfortunatley I have not got the parameters with me, but here's a simpler one - use the MARK 1 eyeball!.
71

Ewan Randall,

15/04/2009 12:06:35
(#70) – (AM2) –Which aspects of this SNP idea do you think may have potential?

Do you not consider that these methods of tackling childhood obesity to be little better than trying to shut the stable door after the horse had bolted its food and left?

Do you think that parents may be made to comply with recommendations?

Do you think that parents should be made to comply with recommendations?

Could these ideas lead to eugenics?

Do you think that eugenics is a good thing?

Do you think that the next Tory government might take on such ideas?

Do you think that these SNP ideas might work better in an independent Scotland with different social aspirations?
72

Independent Mind,

Buckie, Glasgow, Oxford 15/04/2009 12:24:44
I have supported the SNP in the past as I believe in an independent Scotland... but not an independent Scotland like this. I don't want my children to live in fear of going to school because they ate a few to many easter eggs over the break.

This combination of nationalism and centrally planned socialist policies are fundamentally scary. Why have we, as a nation, left behind the liberal values that in the past made us a world leader in all fields?

Sorry Eck, but this is the last straw.

Could someone point me to a Scottish liberal party that supports an independent Scottish republic based on a written constitution where our individual human rights can not be taken away by the state?

Oh right... there isn't one.

Anyone want to start a political party?
73

Observer,,

Glasgow 15/04/2009 12:29:24
76 Oh give it a rest, this is a health issue not a infringement of liberty issue. If children were being sent to school with rickets we would, I presume, do something about it. Obesity is a health issue too.
74

alanh,

ek 15/04/2009 12:31:47
tbh not sure if I like this idea?

kids already get picked on and bullied over anything.
Regular weight checks could lead to more name calling and making younger kids more obsessed with weight loss leading to eating disorders.

I would prefer more cookery lessons for all primary kids and education on healthy and balanced eating than yearly weight checks
75

,

15/04/2009 12:33:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
76

G,

dundy 15/04/2009 12:33:57
Having failed with measures to reduce head-count, The SNP are trying to reduce the weight per teacher....
BTW eating a "few too many" easter eggs over the holidays won't make you obese unless you have been habitually doing that!!!
77

Independent Mind,

Buckie, Glasgow, Oxford 15/04/2009 12:41:20
77 Observer

So the Government monitering and recording the weight of my children then grading them according to Government set targets isn't an infringement of liberty issue?

I agree that obesity is a huge health issue in Scotland but it is not up to the Government to fix it and certainly not in this fashion.

Just because some of the children in a class are overweight does not mean that my children should be subjected to the psychologically damaging act of being forced into having their weight and height measured then being told whether they are OK or not.
78

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 12:47:24
76 & 81

Helix?
79

Observer,,

Glasgow 15/04/2009 12:49:05
81 Why not ? What is strange about it ? We weigh and measure kids when they are young to see that they are developing properly. We test their language and their numeracy skills too. We innoculate them against dangerous diseases, we teach them about road safety, drink and drugs, and how to look after their own sexual health etc. Why would we do all that and ignore the biggest health issue that there is in Scotland ? I think you are being way too precious.
80

Eve,

Scotland 15/04/2009 12:50:34
1)It's a well known fact that children who are obese or overweight are at great risk of becoming obese adults. I believe it was 2/3 of overweight and obese children.

2) Whats with the * in the headline? You don't need it the small 2 in the right hand Conner beside the Height or H means squared. If you want to make it more simple for people to understand do this:

Weight (Kg) ÷ (Height x Height(M))

3)It's a reasonable idea, to have measurements in force that can inform the parents of any thing that could effect their child's well-being.

Lets face it in the way things are going at the moment possible the greatest danger oor children will face is obesity and the related illnesses.

Assessing children's BMI isn't as straight forward as adults as you would expect weight gain every so often, due to growth and development. So measuring and weighing the children once a year would be an interesting thing to do and good way for reconsing the signs that a child needs help with their weight.

Normally with overweight children experts concentrate on maintaining weight so that the child will grow in to their weight.

#4 famous 15: Aye, sad but true. Especially when they are obese and malnourished at the same time, which to many children are.
81

The Tin Man,

15/04/2009 13:08:49
Anyone who thinks there is anything vaugely 'normal' about eating a battered, deep-fried pizza probably needs phycological help, not a body-mass index.
82

Observer,,

Glasgow 15/04/2009 13:13:53
85 Have you not noticed how obese children come from obese families ? It is learned behaviour. A lot of kids do think that eating a battered deep-fried pizza is normal. Now some people might think that it is an infringement of civil liberties for the state to intervene in that learned behaviour. I don't - because these children are not responsible for what their parents feed them.
83

The Tin Man,

15/04/2009 13:19:02
#86

I bet we appear in 'World's Weirdest' - type TV programs in Italy.
84

AM2,

Scotland,UK 15/04/2009 13:22:02
#75 Ewan Randall

I'm not overly interested in the libertarian/authoritarian debate. We live in a well developed democracy and if things swing too far in one direction the voters aren't shy in balancing it out at the next available opportunity.

Generally speaking, "no" to all your questions. I just see this idea (in need of development though it is) as having the potential to be part of a genuine attitudinal shift. As indeed do the SNP's ideas on alcohol, with which I'm much less comfortable. This is one "national conversation" which really is required - but not ad infinitum! I'd rather have quick imperfect action than no action at all.
85

Unimpressed one,

15/04/2009 13:39:57
Since Holyrood decided that in the interests of health they would control the pricing of alcohol, then surely they could do a similar thing with junk foods by adding a 'health' tax which would be creamed off and used to subsidise the price of fresh fruit and vegetables.
86

Unimpressed one,

15/04/2009 13:44:07
BMI = w÷h²*. What's the * for?
87

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 13:53:07
The * is a wee calorie.
88

Hugh Roscombe,

15/04/2009 13:58:54
Actually it's just an error. It should be W/H²

89

Ewan Randall,

15/04/2009 14:31:12
(#88) – (AM2) –Do you think that the next Tory government should take on these SNP ideas?

You would then agree that if there was a shift to a majority in opinion towards independence for Scotland that it is a good thing that those people should exercise their democratic right to carry that through?
90

Independent Mind,

Buckie, Glasgow, Oxford 15/04/2009 15:01:28
Observer

(AM2, Ewan Randall - We seem to be having the same discussion in different threads so thought I would include you both)

Creating a database of childrens BMI does not solve the problem of childhood and subsequently adulthood obesity.

I am all for taxpayer funded campaigns to encourage healthy eating and excersise. It should be a core part of childrens education to ensure children are aware of the risks of obesity.

However, the government can't enforce this through BMI targets. It has to be that persons individual choice to change their lifestyle. Otherwise we are walking down a very slippery slope.
91

Observer,,

Glasgow 15/04/2009 16:06:01
94 It would assist to measure the extent of the problem, although I am aware of issues relating to BMI as a tool for that.

However, I don't think Primary schoolchilren make individual choices regarding their weight. Do you ?
92

Keith Lagden,

sacramento 15/04/2009 17:55:54
Body Weight is best done in water this gives the most accurate lean to fat ratio.

It does involve total immersion, head under the water line. Perhaps somes of these little t$rds could be left under the water, Oh sorry that was wishful thinking. bur it would help resolve some of the issues with children who are walking billboards for abortion.

Parents have a lot to answer for.
93

Independent Mind,

Buckie, Glasgow, Oxford 15/04/2009 18:16:48
Observer

We are getting into a very complicated area and to answer your question there is a fundamental question needs to be answered:

Is a child the responsibility of their parents or the state?

It is my opinion that responsibility for the child has to be with the parents. They have made an active choice to have unprotected sex and thus have a child, it would be unreasonable for the parents to then expect other citizens to look after and pay for that child.

Obviously there are exceptions, such as if the childs human rights are infringed, in which case the state should step in and protect the childs rights as it would with any citizen.

So in answer to your original question. No, I do not think primary school children are capable of making informed choices but the choices made for them should not be the responsibility of the state but the parents.

If we go down the path you (and the SNP) are suggesting then where is a reasonable place to stop? BMI? RDA for vitamins? General fitness levels? VO2 Max? White bloodcell count? etc etc

Then you have to ask - well if parents are not capable of feeding their children correctly then are they capable of making ANY choices for them? Basic education? Social skills? etc etc

Back on topic, as you said, this idea does provide a way of measuring the problem but I really don't like the idea of recording the data unless this was done in a very confidential way with only the the figures being sent to a central office for reporting. It should also be done in a discreet way, perhaps as part of an overall health check up with adequate advice being given.

However, I think it should only go as far as that, advice. My worry is that it is setup in such a way that it leaves the back door open for future misuse.
94

issie60,

15/04/2009 18:22:27
If they would take all the rubbish like High Glucose corn syrup out of the food, which is known to increase appetite, we would all be much healthier. I was born in the 50's and there was not many obese adults and even less obese children.
95

Miss H,

15/04/2009 19:13:36
81 I assume you accept the right of the government - via schools - to measure whether your children can read and write and add up properly.

Presumably you accept the right of the government - again via schools - to provide your children with physical education?

What's the difference?

It's not like the school is going to be able to force any children onto a diet if they are eating a load of rubbish. But they might write parents a letter asking them to take more responsibility for their children's wellbeing.

Just as they might write parents a letter asking them to take more responsibility for their children's behaviour if said children don't do their homework or attend classes.

Re the whole BMI - professional rugby player argument.

If you can point out any professional rugby players who are still in primary I will concede you have a point. Otherwise you don't.
96

Stan Butler,

15/04/2009 19:41:22


I think I may have an answer to Scotland's obesity problem.

Heroin.

You never see a fat junkie.
97

Observer,,

Glasgow 15/04/2009 20:12:07
100 That is very true Stan, however, it's rather an extreme solution.

97 If you send your child to school then you are accepting the assistance of the state in their upbringing. If they are going to be taught how to read and write, then I don't see what the problem is in being taught how to eat properly and take care of yourself either, if required. It's as useful a tool as reading when you think about it.

98

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 15/04/2009 23:06:56
Now let me think, do we have to go and ask london if we can do this or not. Looks like the liebor never thought about SCOTTISH school childrens health in all the years they were in power. Another first for the SNP.
99

Ewan Randall,

15/04/2009 23:55:11
(#102) – (Scotindy) – Is it not the case that those who wait until trouble is upon them before anything is done get a good name for solving the problem, whereas those who see potential problems and solve them before anything can start rarely get any notoriety?
100

Smooth Operator,

10/07/2009 04:23:43
The best formula to beat obesity is to stop eating.
101

Electric Hermit,

27/07/2009 10:47:00
44
thinking

"The problem with bmi is that it does not differentiate between fat weight and muscle weight."

You completely miss the point. Nobody is suggesting that BMI is anything other than an indicative statistical measurement. We are talking here about mass screening. What is important in such circumstances is not the accuracy and reliability of the measurement but the ease with which the data can be collected and calculations made.

More rigorous, and therefore more expensive, measurements can then be applied only in the cases identified by the initial screening.

It is a simple, practical approach to a very real problem. Not a solution in itself, of course. But early intervention is an essential first step in preventing obesity.

The Scottish government is to be congratulated on another worthwhile initiative.
102

Electric Hermit,

27/07/2009 10:59:10
94
Independent Mind

"Is a child the responsibility of their parents or the state?

It is my opinion that responsibility for the child has to be with the parents."

It would be more correct to say that ULTIMATE responsibility for the child lies with the parents. But society as a whole also has a duty of care in relation to each member of that society - particularly the most vulnerable.

Responsible parents will gladly delegate certain aspects of the care of their children to others whom they consider to be appropriately qualified. And a functional society will gladly devote resources to the children who are its most valuable asset.


 

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