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'Nuclear war' on Westminster? SNP is accused over anti-Trident group



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Published Date: 10 April 2008
MINISTERS last night defended the creation of a group to look into ways of removing Trident submarines from Scotland, after claims that they had no remit to fund such a body.
The Trident Working Group, made up of anti-nuclear campaigners, church representatives and lawyers, and financed by the Scottish Government, met for the first time yesterday – in government offices in Edinburgh.

It has been asked to look at planni
ng regulations and transport powers, to see if Scottish ministers could prevent nuclear weapons from being sited or transported north of the Border.

It will also examine if Scotland could be represented at international non-proliferation talks and look at the economic impact of the removal of Trident.

The group's remit has been carefully worded to make sure it stays within devolved areas, such as planning law, which ministers believe could be used to prevent an expansion of the Faslane naval base on the Clyde.

But opposition politicians claimed after yesterday's meeting that it was merely another attempt to pick a fight with Westminster.

Jackie Baillie, the Labour MSP for Dumbarton, which includes the Faslane base, said: "Unless somebody is prepared to take on the economic impact of losing 11,000 jobs in West Dunbartonshire, they are wasting everybody's time. A quarter of the full-time workforce in West Dunbartonshire depends on Faslane for employment. The consequences of the loss of Faslane to towns like Helensburgh don't bear thinking about."

She added: "Whether you are a multilateralist or a unilateralist, you have a responsibility to consider these matters."

Ms Baillie said defence was a matter reserved to Westminster and the Scottish Government did not have any remit to use public funds discussing it.

Murdo Fraser, for the Tories, said the anti-nuclear working group was just another example of the Scottish Government's determination to pick rows with Westminster. He said: "The SNP no doubt has a strategy team that spends its time looking for constitutional rows, so it can indulge in its politics of grudge and gripe at the taxpayers' expense."

But Bruce Crawford, the minister for parliamentary business, who chaired the meeting, said the group was doing important work. He said: "The Scottish Government is opposed to nuclear weapons and it is the action of a responsible government to plan for a scenario where, in the future, nuclear weapons are no longer based on the Clyde.

"The group brings together a broad consensus in Scotland and the world, which aspires to our nation becoming free of nuclear weapons. Today's first and very productive meeting of the working group enabled us to begin discussions on how we ensure the maximum benefit to Scotland should nuclear weapons be removed."





The full article contains 458 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 April 2008 10:15 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Nuclear defence
 
1

R.I.P. HONEST BALANCED JOURNALISM,

10/04/2008 00:23:19
I remember Labour were anti nuclear and Socialist.

The rather inflamatory headline makes it look like the SNP goverment of Scotland have declared Nuclear war on Westminster.


Does this paper wonder why it's circulation figures are spiraling downwards?
2

,

10/04/2008 00:39:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
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3

TommyKaye,

UK 10/04/2008 01:06:05
LABOUR SLEEZE:

Charles Clarke has been given a position by KPMG. Which is nice of them, it is of course entirely unrelated to the millions of pounds of contracts he gave when he was Secretary of State at the Department of Education and Skills (DfES) and the Home Office.

The DfES paid £1.3 million to KPMG in 2004 while the Home Office paid the company £90,000 for a review of the costing methodology of the ID Cards programme in 2005, both during Clarke's tenure as the minister in charge.

Former Blairites cashing in on their ministerial experience with companies they regulated is becoming the norm:

Patricia Hewitt, former Health Secretary, is now a special consultant at Alliance Boots, owner of Boots the pharmacist. UPDATE : Forgot BT - she of course knows something about crap, too big organisations from her NHS days...

Alan Milburn, another former Health Secretary, is on the Healthcare Advisory Boards of Lloydspharmacy and PepsiCo.
Ian McCartney, a former minister at the department in charge of nuclear policy, the DTI, is an adviser to Fluor Corporation, part of a consortium that is bidding to run Sellafield
Richard Caborn, another former trade minister, is an advisor to AMEC UK, another company bidding to run Sellafield.
Isn't it amazing how they never have any business experience when they go into government - not even a whelk stall - but when they come out of government they soon gain some.
4

Glaswegian,

Glasgow 10/04/2008 01:11:13
The article states that the Trident Working Group will, among other things, "look at the economic impact of the removal of Trident."

Labour MSP Jackie Baillie states: "Unless somebody is prepared to take on the economic impact of losing 11,000 jobs in West Dunbartonshire, they are wasting everybody's time... you have a responsibility to consider these matters."

I take it she'll be supporting the working group then...
5

Colin R,

10/04/2008 01:24:48
Appeasers and deniers, 15000 jobs plus the economic multiplier of spending depend on Trident- just because SNP write of a couple of constituencies is selfish
Contrary to Lib Dem and SNP mince you can't just re-deploy people into other jobs
6

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 10/04/2008 01:28:28
The Scottish Daily Mail has released a poll placing support for independence at 41%, against independence at 43% and 16% undecided. This is a gain of 10% for the pro-independence vote since the last Holyrood election.

At this rate, independence will have the majority in less than a year, earlier if Labour keeps up the good work antagonizing Scots voters.
7

,

10/04/2008 03:14:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

An Beal Bacht,

10/04/2008 03:45:32
They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
For trying to change the system from within
I'm coming now, I'm coming to reward them
First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin

I'm guided by a signal in the heavens
I'm guided by this birthmark on my skin
I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons
First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin

I'd really like to live beside you, baby
I love your body and your spirit and your clothes
But you see that line there moving through the station?
I told you, I told you, told you, I was one of those

Ah you loved me as a loser, but now you're worried that I just might win
You know the way to stop me, but you don't have the discipline
How many nights I prayed for this, to let my work begin
First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin

I don't like your fashion business mister
And I don't like these drugs that keep you thin
I don't like what happened to my sister
First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin

I'd really like to live beside you, baby ...

And I thank you for those items that you sent me
The monkey and the plywood violin
I practiced every night, now I'm ready
First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin

I am guided

Ah remember me, I used to live for music
Remember me, I brought your groceries in
Well it's Father's Day and everybody's wounded
First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin
9

,

10/04/2008 04:16:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 10/04/2008 04:25:48
Never mind Trident, what about the seven hulks lying at Rosyth.
We now hear that one of them was found to have a hole in to its ballast tank and was taking in water.
This was not on the oldest vessel lying there but on one of the newer ones, I ask how did this happen?
To report that the hole did not affect the pressure hull, therefore did not give cause for alarm does not satisfy me. The vessel in question now has a list, if the walls of the ballast tank are so easily holed or rusting away; how long before we wake up to find that we have a submarine in Rosyth Dockyard turned turtle and dragged its neighbour to the bottom?
The duty of care exercised by the Ministry of Defence (Des Browne) and the Secretary of State for Scotland (Des Browne) is dreadfully lacking.
All of this some two miles up-stream from the prime ministers family home, oop’s
11

Guga II,

Rockall 10/04/2008 04:44:43
Someone should tell that numpty, Jackie Baillie, that the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party used to be very anti-nuclear weapons; and that includes the North British Branch of her party. This was, of course, before they all became Stalinist Tories.

As to whether the SNP government has a remit to do anything, their remit is to do what the Scottish people want, and that includes getting rid od all nuclear weapons from Scotland. They can park all their nuclear weapons on the Thames, so her master, Maggie Broon, can keep an eye on them.
12

,

10/04/2008 06:27:36
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13

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 07:45:53
In a written answer given to the House of Commons in March 2007, the Mod quantified the number of civilian jobs at Faslane dependent upon Trident, as 859.

(http://www.amicusunitygazette.org.uk/submitted_items/TridentScotReview.pdf)

Jackie Baillie, perhaps unsurprisingly, attempts to “supersize” this figure, and it now shoots up to 11,000.

Not to be undone, an enthusiastic Trident supporter on here raises the stakes yet again, and bids 15,000 lost jobs.

At this rate, by the end of the day, the number of lost jobs will probably equal the number of Celtic fans who travelled to Seville to see their team in the UEFA cup final, i.e. around 1.5 million.

What do those labourtory opponents of this review have to fear from the conclusions reached?
14

David MacVicar,

web 10/04/2008 08:00:43
I am sure Jackie would put the 11,000 figure as misstated or an unintentional deception.

Its not over till the fat lady gets booted.
15

,

10/04/2008 08:42:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
16

Tynietiger,

10/04/2008 08:55:34
The Scottish Daily Mail has released a poll placing support for independence at 41%, against independence at 43% and 16% undecided. This is a gain of 10% for the pro-independence vote since the last Holyrood election.
17

Aqwes,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 09:20:36
#17

Which company provided the poll?
18

Miss H,

10/04/2008 09:24:42
Jackie Baillie seems to forget that the Scottish Parliament voted against Trident replacement. She is therefore picking a fight with many of her own party colleagues as well as with the Scottish Government.

That shows the kind of political nous we have come to expect from her right enough.
19

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 09:35:33
Jackie Baillie, the Labour MSP for Dumbarton, which includes the Faslane base, said on NewsNight Scotland "All the emails have been released."
20

Jim99,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 09:36:07
Is it just me, or does anyone else think it's slightly tasteless to talk about nuclear weapons solely in terms of jobs? Whatever side of the debate you stand on, surely Trident is either absolutely necessary to prevent our own nuclear destruction, or a risk to international security and morally reprehensible? In the latter case, Baillie's position is comparable to arguing that we should never have given women the right to work because of the massive strain they would place on the job market, or that we should never have banned slavery because of the adverse effect the ban would have on the sugar and cotton markets.

Nuclear weapons are a moral issue, and should be decided on a solely moral basis. The residents of Argyll should certainly not be left without an income, but as they are, in the main, very highly skilled, surely they could be partly retrained and put to work on pressing issues such as renewable energy? Or, failing that, just pension off the lot of them: the money would still be there whether we had Trident or not, and we'd be making a huge saving.
21

malkster,

Scotland 10/04/2008 09:50:27
The SNP have done alot of good work in promoting extra powers for Scotland but defence is not devolved and unilateral disarmament is a crazy policy that went out in the 60s. Best to leave this one alone.
22

donald,

glasgow 10/04/2008 10:05:51
I remember Labour being anti nuclear - in opposition, but never socialist.
23

malkster,

Scotland 10/04/2008 10:13:45
#24

Judging by all the massively succesful socialist states around the world thats not a bad thing is it.
24

Argyll on line,

Argyll 10/04/2008 10:39:01
Anorexia Jackie has had it explained to her several times by top experts that closing the nucear facility will not cost jobs.She should retrict her mouth opening episodes to consuming still more food.
25

malkster,

Scotland 10/04/2008 10:43:37
#26

What top experts? Faslane is the biggest single site employer in Scotland.
26

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 10/04/2008 10:53:27
Stop Labour causing strikes!

Here is the link to a petition. Pass this on to everyone you know and ask them to sign!

http://tinyurl.com/5bt766
27

malkster,

Scotland 10/04/2008 11:00:40
#28

What does this have to do with the story?
28

malkster,

Scotland 10/04/2008 11:41:33
#30

How do you devolve decisions on basing of military units?
29

malkster,

Scotland 10/04/2008 11:46:06
#32

I do not beleive you can devolve certain areas of defence policy. As for an abuse of powers it is just a waste of time they will simply be told to "get back in your box".
30

McX,

10/04/2008 13:07:00
Interesting poll here folks, make it so....

http://tinyurl.com/4nxtlj
31

Wee Beardie,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 13:24:18
Whichever side you are on, be sure to respond to the Scotland on Sunday survey on how the SNP government is performing. You'll find it on:

http://www2.jpscotland.co.uk/Scotsman/survey/referendum/_scotland_on_sunday_referendum_survey.htm
32

walter,

10/04/2008 15:20:58
Bruce Crawford, the minister for parliamentary business who announced the working group said the group would look at international law, transport, planning and the environment as possible obstacles to the UK government's plans.
He also stated "We are entitled to form opinions on these matters and we are entitled to do what we can to persuade the UK government to change its position." and
"We cannot, of course, use our devolved responsibilities to hinder or block decisions by the UK government on reserved matters," he said.

They already know that they have no power to over rule the UK government on reserved matters but they are wasting money on this so called working group and for what?.
We all know the answer and Murdo Fraser hit the nail on the head when he said grudge and gripe.


33

Winters,

Glasgow 10/04/2008 17:04:05
I don't want to get involved in the Trident debate. However I've always wondered what the reaction would be in Scotland, if the Trident base was to be transferred to the England side of the Solway firth.
34

brownlie,

10/04/2008 17:25:32
36 Walter

Quite right, Walter, it is obvious that the vast number of people in Scotland, including some unionist Msps are opposed, not because they regard it as an un-nessary expense, but just to grudge and gripe
35

Eve,

Scotland 10/04/2008 21:56:25
OMG, why are some people so bililed that they can't see that Nuclear is unstable medium and waste is radio active and cause land polltion.

"Murdo Fraser, for the Tories, said the anti-nuclear working group was just another example of the Scottish Government's determination to pick rows with Westminster."

And as for Jackie Baillie and the apparent 11,000 job losses. So one please remind people like her of what happened to the hundreds of people who worked with aspestose for years.

Time to think of the compancention these workers will be claiming years down the line. Radio activite can cause people to become infettile. Workers could sue if they don't have any children because of it.
36

Eve,

Scotland 10/04/2008 22:30:06
#27 malkster: If thats true, There must be a lot of people who are unempoleid in Scotland!!!
37

Castaway,

11/04/2008 02:44:01
The Scottish Government and Parliament have the unquestionable right, and indeed duty, to express themselves on any issue that concerns the welfare of the people and land of Scotland, and to make representations where such are required.

Scottish Parliament - MSPs vote against Trident renewal.
The vote saw 71 MSPs vote against the plan while only 16 voted for the plan, while 39 Labour MSPs abstained - 14 June 2007
Westminster Parliament - 33 of Scotland's 59 MPs did not support the government position on Trident. 14 March 2007

The total cost of replacing Trident 2007-2054 est £90 - £110 billion - 11 Feb 2007
http://www.robedwards.com/2007/02/replacing_tride.html
38

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 06/11/2008 12:21:02
*Please enter your comment*Yes let move all the armed forces out of scotland and let the SNP pick up the bill for the thousands that would lose their jobs.

Also Scotland and the UK would still be a nuclear target with or without Trident an attack on France would even destroy scotland so there is a fase sence of security by the anti Royal Navy lobby Russia has already deployed Nuclear Missiles along the polish Borders directed at the countries with no nuclear weapons, they will do the same to the UK without Trident it will not make us any safer if we get rid of them

 

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