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Don't ignore real stats on sex trade



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Published Date: 30 April 2008
THE Woman's Support Project in Glasgow is the publicly funded successor to the Routes Out of Prostitution Project. It claims to represent the best interests of Glasgow prostitutes, and like Routes Out, aims to eliminate the city's sex trade. Routes Out failed. I fear the WSP will also.
Unfortunately, before this becomes obvious, the WSP may have persuaded this Holyrood government to apply its well-intentioned but woolly solutions to the objective of eliminating prostitution in Scotland. But before Alex Salmond's cabinet listens to
the spokeswomen for WSP, it should read through the evidence given by them in their various guises to the committees in the last parliament that debated kerb-crawling and other aspects of the sex trade.

Far be it from anyone with interest in the same matters to doubt the sincerity of the Routes Out employees in their mission to outlaw the Management Zones in Aberdeen and Edinburgh, but nor should it be forgotten that the record of Routes Out measured against its objective is abysmal. They have yet to produce a single figure or statistic, more than a year after Routes Out was asked how many women worked as prostitutes at the start of Routes Out's £1 million-plus grant, compared to the number at the date, years later, when they gave evidence to the Local Government Committee.

In contrast, Edinburgh's Scotpep, operating on a fraction of the money paid to Routes Out, produced annual figures, broken down by numbers of women supported, counselled and helped by Scotpep year on year, the numbers estimated to have switched to working indoors after the ending of the Management or Tolerance Zone, the numbers travelling to Aberdeen to work, etc. Scotpep could also produce numbers on the huge rise in gratuitous violence against sex workers by the men who bought sex.

Scotpep, like Routes Out/WSP, supported the idea of buyers and sellers of sex being treated equally if the law on paid-for sex were to be broken. The difference lay in what each thought the law should be. Scotpep wanted the new law to prevent nuisance, inconvenience or alarm to third parties unconnected to the attempts to buy or sell sex, while Routes Out wanted to take a step towards ending prostitution – a worthy, if imprecise aim, guaranteed to produce, as in Sweden, only a period with streets empty of sex-workers before some drift back to their old haunts.

But this is what the WSP is now pressing on the Holyrood government – the Swedish solution to street prostitution.

The women running the WSP would never accept the impossibility of imposing a uniform judgement of what constitutes illegal paid-for sex, nor that some women choose to sell or barter sexual services, which indicates that their approach will be no more successful than the Swedes if their aim is to eliminate the sex trade.

They're likely only to drive the trade underground, and out of reach of social workers and police, thus putting women at greater risk and depriving police of a conduit of information on other areas of criminality, like the supply of drugs.

But this time the WSP has statistics culled from a sample of 110 men who answered such searching questions as "Would you stop buying sex from prostitutes if your name was put on a sex register?" Unsurprisingly, considering the modest sample of largely self-selecting respondents, over 80 per cent said yes.

Whilst not denying the effort made by WSP to prove the case for outlawing the purchase of sex, the Scottish Government would be wise to solicit an independent assessment of whether the number of sex workers in Sweden has declined, and by how much, and how many now work indoors, before accepting the sometimes very confused interpretations of the results in this limited survey.

Details please, Kenny
Although endorsing the idea, I'm interested in the details of Justice Minister Kenny MacAskill's plan to give victims of serious crime the right to address the person found guilty, and the court that convicted him or her.

The idea would be for the victim's statement to be given after the jury's decision, and before sentence is handed down. It is not intended as a guide to the judge's decision as regards the length or conditions of the sentence, but how will judges react, if at all, to public criticism of sentences that appear to be at odds with victims' statements?

Time to mend oil link
Some readers may recall the phrase "the commanding heights" of the economy and some may share my opinion that the Grangemouth dispute indicates it would be no bad thing to have the public interest represented on the Board of Ineos, at least. If ever an industry could be described as central to both community life and the economy, it's the energy industry.

Prime Minister Thatcher and her heirs broke the link between the oil industry and the state in contrast to Norway, where the publicly Statoil company is an influential part of the energy industry.

Whether or not such a set-up would have been able to get both sides round the table, I don't know – rightly or wrongly, the company chairman reminds me of an archetypical old-fashioned boss who wants victory over the union rather than a negotiated settlement.





The full article contains 890 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 30 April 2008 9:33 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Margo MacDonald
 
1

Alfred E. Neuman,

30/04/2008 10:56:57
This is clearly our top priority!

If a women chooses to associate with violent men and actively seeks to form these relationships we must provide shed loads of cash for police and social workers.

If you are a productive tax-paying citizen who wants safety on your community streets - forget it! Join the back of the queue, Great Britain doesn't need productive tax-payers it needs prozzies and pimps.
2

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 30/04/2008 11:25:55
Here's a novel idea - if a woman is found to be offering sexual services for money thus encouraging men to take up their offer, why can't both be put on a sex offenders' register. And get the police back on to doing a day's work on the streets. There seems to be too much kid-glove treatment of the women involved whilst the men are regarded as potentially or actual violent abusers. All part of the overall decriminalising of minor law-breakers.
3

Biker,

Ayr 30/04/2008 11:53:57
#1 ans #2. very simplistic and very stupid. There are many reasons for prostitution, but i'm fairly sure that life choice is not one of them. Where help is needed to get these women help that they require, it should be provided.
Remember many of these women are from poor or broken backgrounds and are deeplyneedfull of the help and assistance, perhaps even from the sex slave industry. How does that equate with your comments?
4

Alfred E. Neuman,

30/04/2008 12:04:09
3 Biker

It equates perfectly with both comments you fool.

I mentioned priorities and the other poster said deal with these criminals once nicely and once only, if they repeat then deal with them harsher.
5

James (1),

30/04/2008 12:06:03
Tigh rope walker is a dangerous job and nobody feels sorry for the person who is injured because they and they alone chose this way of life.

Switch to prostitutes and the same can be said. There is MORE THAN enough self help groups that have been on the go for years. Lets use Scotpep as an example. They record unreported(?)"crimes" against women. Oh really!
The dont try to talk women out of their chosen "profession". All they want is for them to be safe.
Well that is where we agree. I do not want anyone assaulted and my advice which is 100% effective is.....
STOP DOING IT. GET A REAL JOB AND STOP CLAIMING BENEFITS WHICH ARE PAID TO YOU BY REAL WORKERS.
(Our Polish cousins all appear to be able to come here and get a job so why not you?)
Stop treating these women as victims and treat them for what they are.
They want to claim benefits and make money illegally and don't care about the residents they upset.
The same residents who contribute, no doubt, to their benefit money these women claim whilst "working"
6

Randan,

30/04/2008 12:22:50
You're a bit wound up arent you Alfred.
What's the problem? Mummy not love you enough?
7

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/04/2008 12:35:12
Ah yes boys, its all the wimmin's fault...you have not got a clue and are not living in the real world.

Routes Out of Prostitution failed because it was unrealistic....Routes to survive Prostitution would have been a better idea...

2...I find your post highly disturbing and it makes me wonder what kind of character you actually are....
8

Jenny MacArthur,

30/04/2008 12:53:57
Margo is quite right. Policies should be based on evidence and results, not moralising or theorising. Sadly a lot of the anti-prostitution lobbying comes either from right-wing men (particularly religionist bigots) who want to control women's sexuality, or else far-left feminist man-haters who want to blame everything on evil males. Most sensible people would support policies that reduce harm, and all the evidence is that legalisation of prostitution in a safe controlled environment is by far the best way to reduce harm. Unless you're a moralistic bigot of course...
9

PaulB,

Edinburgh 30/04/2008 13:01:49
It is a real pity that whenever someone like Margo tries to have a grown up discussion and puts forward a pragmatic point of view they are shot down in flames. Prostitution is the world's oldest profession. it is not going to go away, whatever legislation is passed. What are needed are real solutions and tough decisions have to be made. Who knows, perhaps if it was legalised, these women could then become taxpayers and come off benefits etc.
10

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

, Newinggton 30/04/2008 13:37:11
Ironic that women should finally be freed from men telling them what to do with their bodies only to find people like Routes Out demanding that the law enable them to tell women what to do with their bodies.

Prostitution is a mix of sex and capitalism, and nobody else's business except those agreeing to the trade. Making it unlawful is an unconscionable attempt to infringe on right to free trade and unacceptable state intrusion into people's bedrooms.
11

Hearts Daft,

Tynecastle 30/04/2008 14:54:53
Some of the comments her e.g. 1 and 2 are beyond belief. If grown adults choose to buy or sell sex then that is their business. A safe area in which these transactions can take place with minnimum risk to health and safety is the most obvious solution.
The feminist argument that prostitution is violence against women assumes that women will never want to use their sexuality to make money and denies them the right to use their bodies as they see fit.
The middle class prudes who have made prostitution illegal have placed vulnerable individuals in an even more vulnerable situation.
12

iain,

edinburgh 30/04/2008 15:11:46
Whether we like or not (and I dont prostitution of all forms is a huge service industry in the UK....end it?If pigs might fly!
13

FrancesP,

30/04/2008 15:23:59
Did anyone see Reporting Scotland's utterly outrageous report on the prostitution issue a couple of nights ago? Reevel Alderson seemed to have swallowed the WSP's 'ideological purity' pill before he went on screen. I kept waiting patiently for the moment when the opposite point of view would be put in the interests of at least nominally 'balanced' journalism - but it never came. Every wild assertion about the 'success' of the Swedish approach was presented entirely unchallenged. The whole thing was framed in terms of 'how do we eradicate prostitution?' and 'how do we make men realise that purchasing sex is an act of violence?'. It never seemed to occur to anyone that before you can pose those questions you first have to ask 'is the eradication of prostitution a legitimate and realistic aim?' and 'is it remotely credible to view the consensual selling and purchase of sex as an act of violence in every circumstance?'. And that's before you even get to the most important question of all that Margo has addressed - won't a change of the law driven by these unchallenged ideological certainties make the lives of sex workers more dangerous in the real world?

I could understand BBC Scotland's lazy and uncritical approach to a politically correct campaign if there was political consensus on the subject, but there quite clearly isn't. Why didn't they include some remarks from Margo, for instance?
14

Raoul Duke,

30/04/2008 16:13:07
I think Alfred needs his nat king.
15

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 30/04/2008 16:23:05
I find it hard to reconcile between the view that somehow "sex workers" are somehow vulnerable and come from deprived and difficult backgrounds versus organisations which purport to "support" them i.e. maintain this situation whilst at the same time condemning men who use these services and suggesting a wee trip to the sex offenders' register, which clearly 80% of them don't want. You can't have it all ways. Is it an illegal activity - yes. If you support this way of life is this helping or merely putting women in harm's way? I would say the latter. No one can condone men who use prostitutes and offer violence.

However, prostitutes and supporting organisations who know this is quite a likely event, continue to choose and maintain this lifestyle and so as grown-ups really must face the consequences of their actions. #5 James(1) is correct. Why defraud the taxpayer and put yourself in harm's way? And I won't be impressed to hear that the victim has multiple problems and drug habits, etc., which is all part of the problem. It's not called the oldest profession for nothing so no one's under the illusion that prostitution will cease overnight, but does it really need to have so much publicly-funded support?
16

Logie Almond,

30/04/2008 16:49:34
I have a lot of respect for Margo but on this issue she has been completely conned by Scotpep. Scotpep is an organisation with a vested interest in the continued existence of prostitution and they will not support anything which helps women get out of that lifestyle. Prostitution is an unacceptable degrading way of making money and should not be seen as inevitable or part of everyday life.
17

Biker,

Ayr 30/04/2008 16:59:08
Alfred. I think you need help.
18

Teofilio Cubillas,

30/04/2008 17:09:22
Meanwhile, I assume that the rent boys and their customers who infest Calton Hill and the surrounding residential streets will be left alone. How I enjoy walking there with my young children on Sunday mornings, making sure they don't pick up or stand on a used condom. Why are they left alone? Surely the dangers apply to them just as much? Or would any police activity disturb too many legislators and/or lawyers from their nocturnal activities?
19

leithlink,

30/04/2008 17:47:18
A lot of sensible points have been posted here but let's not forget something - we're not talking about call girls or "Klute" types here, we're talking about addicted, controlled street prostitutes whose addictions, health issues, money, and personal circumstances have made prostitution the easy and sometimes only option. So let's get this dewy eyed view of "the oldest profession" out of the way and ensure that politicians like Margo, Police officers and support services direct their attention towards those.
Scotpep keeps figures of self reported assaults but there is no official verification or any trending done against background official figures. In that sense they are worthless.
In addition, how does Scotpep's figures differentiate between assault by clients and assaults by pimps whose sole interest is the continuation of prostitution to continue the drug habit to continue the control.
Part of the funding problem for Scotpep is their very strategies of non-judgemental and non-routes out - it means that the Council and others could not support an organisation who continued to support what was an illegal activity and consequently lay themselves open to legal challenge. It was the same with the Police - how could the Chief Constable defend his force against failing to carry out their statutory function, whilst his maverick Deputy Chief Constable ran around promoting the continuation of what was an illegal act, however great the "sincerity" of Margo, Tom Wood and Scotpep. It was unlawful and she knows it!
#18 - You make a good point. The law does not distinguish between male and female prostitutes. Why does Margo?
Finally, since the police have increased activity in Leith Links, the place has been much better for it without pimps, threats, gardens used for the "business", FLs left about, needles abandoned, and less chance of the decent residents of Leith being accosted. Perhaps Margo can suggest why that is not a good thing.
20

leithlink,

30/04/2008 17:58:55
PS - What an irresponsible statement from someone who say that she wishes to protect the prostitutes -
"They're likely only to drive the trade underground, and out of reach of social workers and police, thus putting women at greater risk and depriving police of a conduit of information on other areas of criminality, like the supply of drugs."
Why not publish a list of Police informers? Bah!!

21

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

, Newington 30/04/2008 19:03:13
If we legalised brothels, then customers who offered violence would quickly find that assaulting a prostitute brought the same results as assaulting a checkout girl.

It's due to the illegality of prostitution that assaults are not taken to the police and followed up through the courts.

It's hard to see exactly who the laws against prostitution serve other than those politicians who are prone to holier-than-thou pontification.
22

,

30/04/2008 19:16:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/04/2008 19:35:42
21...Correct, many prostitutes do not report assaults or rapes as they know that they are on to a loser....I know of a prostitute who was raped and after reporting it, was then charged with prostitution by the police...if women in our society who are not prostitutes, and who are raped, do not report it (for the same reasons) you can bet your boots that prostitutes are not going to waste their time seeking justice...

True, that women and men are exploited sexually by others for financial gain but we will never eradicate prostitution and have to recognise this and deal with it as adults, instead of living in a moralistic puritanical vacuum....

How many women who sell their bodies have been murdered by serial killers?...how many may have been saved had the laws not driven them to seek their clients in dark streets where their vulnerability led to their deaths? How many more serial killers are waiting in the wings to start killing women again...with the help of our sorry system?
24

Sassenach Observer,

30/04/2008 20:37:16
Hmmm
Drugs policy - Penalise the dealers, the consumers are just victims and need help.

Prostitution policy - Penalise the consumers, the dealers are just victims and need help.

Not sure that I really understand all this...
25

Biker,

Ayr 01/05/2008 09:13:19
Its easy. Drug dealers are potentialy dealing in death.
Prostitutes are not . (Unless of course purpously infecting a client)
Very often, as pointed out by Horrors, the prostitute is charged at the same time as the client.
26

James (1),

01/05/2008 12:00:22
#23 How many would have been killed had they not been prostitutes? I will guess at.....None! What do you think?

They are the ones putting their own lives at risk.

For those who think legalising prostitution can work I say it does not work. Amsterdam still has the problem with pimps and drugs.
So I would suggest that it is delusional to think that once legal all will be ok.
These women need help but they do not need the likes of Scotpep, who are as much use as the ashtray on a motorbike.
These women are not victims, they have freedom of choice and if they will not help themselves then that is their choice and we should be treating them like any other criminal.
If they are "working" then stop their benefit money would be the first stage if they do not accept help.
27

punterpride,

bury 04/05/2008 12:11:11
i am a 52 yr old heterosexual male who recently had sex with a 20 yr old female-this cost just £40. as a socialist i find it sad that the only way a working class woman can earn a decent wage is by selling sex. if rich people paid their fair share of taxes then the govt could afford to pay every woman £1000 a week.
that would end prostitution.
its all very well for rich moralising bigots to moan about and condemn prostitutes, well pay more taxes then
i'm sure you'll be happy to do this to stop prostitution or am i being naive

 

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