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Councils told to clean up their act or face action

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Published Date:
19 December 2006
IT IS 80 pages long, the result of a wide consultation and the latest weapon in the Scottish Executive's arsenal to clean up the nation's litter-strewn streets.
The conclusion reached by the Code of Practice on Litter and Refuse, published yesterday? Dirty streets require more attention than clean streets. As the report states in its introduction: "Expressed in its simplest terms: If it isn't dirty, don't clean it."

The new code of practice, which has been issued to all of Scotland's local authorities and organisations also provides a helpful definition of what litter actually is. It is, according to the code "waste in the wrong place".

The code also states that dirt and such detritus should not be considered litter and nor should "recent leaf or blossom fall". Chewing gum which has stuck solid to the ground or, as the report explains, "adhered to hard surface areas", is also exempt.

The report states: "Chewing gum ... is not assessed for the purpose of cleansing statistics." However, it warns councils that "there are no apparent legal reasons why persons aggrieved by litter should not obtain an order ... requiring the cleaning of even hard-adhered chewing gum".

The new code also seeks to empower members of the public and explains that if their local authority is not following the code and refuses to act when contacted, they can take legal action through the sheriff court to obtain a litter abatement order, which will compel the authority or local body to take action.

Council departments of sanitation may well scoff at the code's simplistic introduction, but will be concerned at the new demands placed on them, which includes cleaning up all city centre streets found to be heavily littered within one hour.

The code, issued by the Scottish Executive, sets a clear time frame in which local authorities are expected to act in order to keep our streets clean.

The code also insists that litter plans should be created to allow members of the public to discover how frequently the street in which they live or work should be cleaned and what standard is to be expected.

Keep Scotland Beautiful, the government body that co- ordinated the report, wishes to see a move away from old council practices that focused on cleaning areas or streets by rota even if they did not require it, and instead focus on how clean an area or street is.

The report reads: "This may mean that an area which generally escapes littering will seldom need to be swept, whereas a litter blackspot will need more frequent attention."

The new code is based on four grades of cleanliness. Grade A is no litter or refuse; B is predominantly free of litter and refuse, apart from a few small items; C is consistent distribution of litter and refuse with minor accumulations and D is heavily- littered with significant accumulation.

All land types, from streets to parkland and industrial estates, will be divided into 12 categories or zones, according to land usage and the volume of traffic. Zone 1, which includes town centres, shopping centres, major transport centres, central car parks and other busy public places, requires the closest attention.

A Zone 1 area that has become heavily littered, Grade D, should be cleaned and returned to a Grade A, within an hour of the discovery, according to the code. If the area is less heavily littered, Grade C, council staff have three hours to return it to Grade A and six hours if only mildly littered, Grade B.

A survey conducted in 2002 revealed that 89 per cent of people in Scotland considered litter and dog fouling to be quite a big or a very big problem.

Cleanliness monitoring by Keep Scotland Beautiful has found that town centres have the highest percentage of pedestrian-dropped litter, with 93 per cent of sites surveyed having general litter present.

Cigarette butts and discarded packets are the most common type of litter found in 87 per cent of town centre areas, sweet wrappers and discarded confectionery bars are found in 51 per cent, drinks in 31 per cent and fast food at 10 per cent.

John Summers, the chief executive of Keep Scotland Beautiful, said last night that previously the code of practice had been a well kept secret and that the public were often unaware of their rights. He said: "The idea is to give emphasis to the fact that there are standards to be met and there should be targets. The council should be responding within these time-frames. It is a code underpinned by the environmental protection act and it does have a statutory background."

An Executive spokesman said: "Following a review of the litter and fly-tipping provisions of the Environmental Protection Act 1990, the Scottish Executive commissioned Keep Scotland Beautiful to review the code of practice on litter. The revised code gives guidance to bodies which have a duty to clear litter."

The never-ending battle to hold back a tide of rubbish


"NOW why did you go and do that?" inquired an elderly lady of the middle-aged man with whom she was strolling down Glassford Street, in Glasgow's City Centre. His crime? Littering.

Instead of answering, the man who had dropped the piece of paper simply shrugged his shoulder and smiled. To gaze along the pavement, past the crushed Styrofoam coffee cups, the crumpled Twix wrappers, the discarded rubber bands and old batteries, it is clear he is not alone. Picked at random from the city's A-Z, Glassford Street is a modern shopping thoroughfare, with a casino on one side and Marks & Spencer on the other. It is a clear Zone 1 under the new code of practice on litter and refuse and so deserves constant attention, yet to gauge by its appearance yesterday afternoon, it was clearly a Category C, with "consistent distribution of litter and refuse with minor accumulations".

The "minor accumulations" included around 20 coffee cups, assorted cigarette packets and crisp wrappers, wedged into what appeared to be a water mains. Yet by far the most common piece of litter was the cigarette butts, ground under heel there must have been several hundred on either side of the street, despite the appearance of at least six well-marked large green bins with top grills especially for smokers to deposit their stubs.

What is striking about a close examination of the average city street is the casualness with which the public discards crisp packets, sweet wrappers or chewing gum. At the pedestrian crossing, sitting balanced on the fence, was a plastic McDonalds soft drink container. Someone had clearly finished their last slurp and carefully set it aside, as royalty would a crystal class, for one of the city's 379 streetcleaners to pick up and clear away.

In the space of a few minutes I noted the following rubbish: five ketchup smeared chips, four Mayfair cigarette packets, a Mars and a Bounty bar wrapper, a plastic spoon, three Greggs paper bags, KP chocolate dips and assorted shrapnel, old hankies, a tomato soup container, a crushed cucumber slice, a Diet Coke can. It was a list that could go on...and on...and on.

The cleaners, who patrol city streets on motorised street sweepers like members of a geriatric bike gang, are constantly taken aback by the flagrancy of today's litterers.

As one said yesterday: "You clean a street, turn your back for a minute and somebody else has tossed something down. I caught one guy at it and said: 'c'mon mate, I've just cleaned that.' He sheepishly picked it up, but if I hadn't been there he would have left it. We might see sparkling streets some day. But not in my lifetime."

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 18 December 2006 11:15 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Litter
 
1

Scullion,

Canada 19/12/2006 02:52:53

I have often thought that a course should be taught in primary school on how to be civilized human being. Simple rules can be learned by rote such as: read a newspaper every day, be polite, don't litter etc. If recited like a mantra every day, it may take root in some tykes who may not be exposed to such ideas at home.
Education, not interdiction, is the way to change people.

2

Navvy,

19/12/2006 04:08:41

#1 agreed

In addition, collected litter should be sorted by brand, Macdonalds, Cadbury etc and those companies charged not with a tax but with setting up and running an educational programme. Soft drink cans should be banned as they are in Ireland and all bottles sold with a refundable deposit

3

Graeme,

Hong Kong 19/12/2006 04:24:44

# 1&2. There should also be no smiling before 5pm, no games (as too competitive) and certainly no sex (disgusting messy business).

It should also be hammered into us every two minutes on TV that we must study all the time, eat only nutritious food that has a point value. Not enough points at the end of the week then you forfeit your right to eat for the next week, Oh and alcohol only (one glass) at Christmas lunch and at 'officially' sanctioned weddings. This is where the bride and groom have completed their year long counseling course on the rules!!

4

scottwebb.co.uk,

19/12/2006 05:12:49

Comment@3 Graeme, hi mate, bet this incremental unrolling of a totalitarian state makes you want to leap on the first plane back from Hong Kong .......Scotland.....land of the free :)

5

Mallory,

19/12/2006 05:27:33

80 pages - where will folk put that waste of paper?
The Executive should use re-cycled electrons.

Seriously put a 10p packaging charge on item of fast-food or takeaway bottle. That should pay for the council clean up.

6

mv,

19/12/2006 07:18:35

Litter is not caused by the council or the fast food outlets etc.. its caused by people who could not care less. Same type of people that park in disabled spaces or drive down bus lanes, its a cultural thing and it seems will always be there!

7

Roy,

19/12/2006 07:34:27

Councils need to get heavy on the commercial litterers - companies that plaster areas with plastic advertising signs, etc. Just because it's up a pole, it doesn't mean it's not litter.

8

GOM,

19/12/2006 07:49:12

The executive should direct its efforts towards upholding the law and preventing the dropping of litter, instead of passing the buck, as always, to hard pressed local authorities.

9

SW,

P&K 19/12/2006 08:02:09

This is a big problem. Our local school is a focal point of rubbish dumping - cans, crisp packets etc. I've even seen kids drop litter right next to a litter bin. A bad case when I was behind a car with 'I'm a true Scott from Perth' in the window - throwing his fish 'n' chip paper out of the window.

Lazy dirty people - not too bright either. Fly tipping your old fridge when the re-cycle centre is only five hundred yards further on (dump at no cost in the proper place). Why? This is a cost to us all.

Mind you this is not just a problem in Scotland - this is a UK wide problem - part of Gordon Browns 'British' character!

10

mv,

19/12/2006 08:07:53

#9, "Mind you this is not just a problem in Scotland - this is a UK wide problem - part of Gordon Browns 'British' character!"

When I said cultural thing did not mean scotland alone, maybe its a british isles (geographical) thing as it can be seen in wales, ireland, england and scotland. But go to Germany or Japan and the streets are spotless!

Its all part of the compensation culture, not our problem someone else will pick up it or pay for my ten kids, house. Could not be bothered to work, dont worry the government will pick it up!

11

Cadgers,

Perth 19/12/2006 08:16:17

#9 Agree SW. The streets after the schoolkids at lunch time are disgusting. It's not their fault, they are just ignorant, or their parents are!
#2 I agree about the cans,mind you I've seen kids throw away Iron Bru bottles, along with their 1p,2p and 5 pences!

12

Murmor,

Lanarkshire 19/12/2006 08:17:14

Here the streets are sparkling clean. The occasional leaf is usually caught before it even hits the pavement. Fish and chip wrappers are folded carefully before being placed gently in to refuse bins. Crisp and cigarette packets are taken home for domestic disposal. Macdonalds debris is stacked and packed ready for frequent fast collections.

ps Come along any time and watch the aerobatics of the Pig squadron as they fly above Wishaw (Jacksville) Airdrie and Coatbridge.

13

Paul Voltaire,

www.paulvoltaire.spaces.live.com 19/12/2006 08:27:15

Down in Tranent they left the streets dirty to teach the locals a'lesson'!

14

Allan (Glasgow),

19/12/2006 08:42:56

(8),

"Hard pressed Local Authorities". Are you serious? Biggest waste of space, overmanned bunch of self-serving runts on the planet. How the hell are they hard pressed?!!! The lot of them should get a shift in the private sector to see what hard pressed is. The only thing they may be hard pressed to do is to use their refuse collection lorries on the pot holed strewn roads they are meant to upkeep.

15

Road to the isles,

Lochaber 19/12/2006 08:43:00

For any sake just put it in a bin or take it home with you. I live in one of the most scenic parts of Scotland but I'm constantly disgusted by the mess that people leave behind. I'm not just talking about fag ends and crisp packets here either. Some folk seem to think they can leave absolutely everything at their backside and to hell with it. Sorry for the rant but it has to be seen to be believed. Litter is a prople problem, not the Executive or councils.

16

Road to the isles,

Lochaber 19/12/2006 08:43:31

People that is...

17

Allan (Glasgow),

19/12/2006 08:46:34

15,

Totally agree. There is only a problem because people drop the stuff. Personally, I would employ thousands of litter officers and issue on the spot fines. Given the scale of the issue it would be self-financing. I also think that whilst it may be a small issue for some, it shows a lack of respect for society and in my view leads to a whole range of other problems.

18

jenny,

east lothian 19/12/2006 08:56:38

re mv's comments - have just returned from Guernsey where there is a stunning total absence of litter in the towns, the countryside and the beaches. I wonder how they have achieved this.

19

eric,

19/12/2006 09:02:54

My German & Austrian freinds ,Love Scotland ,But they did mention the Litter in Edinburgh Was shocking,And Thought us very Lazy people,In the nicest possible way,I agree

20

JX,

Edinburgh 19/12/2006 09:04:55

It is wrong to increase the proportion of council tax given to clean the streets of Scotland; this does not go to the root of the problem. Instead, we need to penalise the people who litter in such a way that it will deter them from their manky behaviour.

21

HarryArgyll,

19/12/2006 09:11:10

While I agree we should ALL be litter conscious, my issue is with Ian MacNicol.

A coke container from McDonalds strategically placed on what looks like some sort of post. Now come on Ian, what are the odds of someone putting that there with the skill it would require while on the move (easier to drop it) and to keep it there for the photo. Did you have to wait a few days to get the shot? Making sure it was turned to face the camera so there could be no mistaking it as McDonalds!

My guess is that it is full or has plenty in it (it would blow off and spoil the shot otherwise) and was deliberately placed there.

I would be interested to know if anyone witnessed this????

22

maximus234,

19/12/2006 09:16:08

I think that we need more litter bins, the amount of times i have to carry my rubbish for ages looking for a bin. Some folks would after a while just say sod it and chuck it away

23

conservative,

19/12/2006 09:30:24

And of course there's the problem that in some places litter bins have been cut back or even removed altogether in case a bomber might pop one into it.

24

Tobydawg,

Here & there 19/12/2006 09:34:45

I was on holiday in Italy recently, at Riva del Garda.
There was no litter or chewing gum on the streets or pavements.
It felt very strange.

25

Grassmarket resident,

19/12/2006 09:38:48

Why oh why is the standard of spelling so atrocious now? Why oh why can't people use the simplest of punctuation symbols-the apostrophe? Why oh why am I bothering to write this?

26

Lock,

19/12/2006 09:40:18

If it needs cleaned clean it.

If it doesn't don't.

Why does it take a Government report to tell us this?

27

Michael,

19/12/2006 09:42:24

What's amazing on this board is the number of people who don't seem to think that littering is a problem. It shows just how self-loathing and pitiful Scots people can be. Has no-one noticed we are living in one of the most beautiful countries in Europe and what do half the population do - fling their rubbish out their car windows. As for the report - well, Glasgow has to be the filthiest city in all of Europe. Unfortunately the old problem is still there - trying to cover over the cracks with a few slick but essentially inaccurate marketing campaigns won't hide the truth about a city full of lazy, unhealthy saddos that think it's a sign of their so-called gallousness to wade seemingly un-noticing through a sea of rubbish on their way to buy the latest piece of cheap trash from the nearest high street clothing chain.

28

Pete McClelland,

Kirkcudbright 19/12/2006 09:45:45

Start at school. Teach the nippers to respect their community and other residents. It worked for me.

29

Lesley,

Edinburgh 19/12/2006 09:47:19

Well said Lock #28 - what a waste of our money!

30

Alex.,

19/12/2006 09:51:43

Have litter wardens in Glasgow to hit the offenders with £50 fines as they do in Scotland's capital city.

31

Pete McClelland,

Kirkcudbright 19/12/2006 09:51:53

#27 why indeed?

32

Alex.,

19/12/2006 09:53:09

#27 why have you placed a hyphen between symbols and the?

33

Everything you do is a balloon,

19/12/2006 09:57:36

Something need to be done at Railway station , no bins on platforms because they are afraid of bombs, there must be another solution. I dont litter , apart from in Railway stations when i have no option apart from carting my garbage on the train. They sold it to me , they can dispose of the packaging.

34

Everything you do is a balloon,

19/12/2006 10:09:46

He lives in the Grasssmarket and he is worried about Spelling.

Get your priorities sorted out , like finding an anxiety free place to live.

35

sotaespeak,

Fife 19/12/2006 10:11:30

No 27, I totally agree!
The kids these days even write their essays at school in mobile phone 'text speak'. They seem to have dropped all forms of punctuation - just as 'naturally' as they drop their litter! The connection - EDUCATION!

36

Kitty,

East Lothian 19/12/2006 10:12:39

I agree that the anti-litter rules should be enforced but I know that councils are agressively incompetent at keeping our towns clean.
There are so many examples of East Lothian Council's direct or passive refusal to respond to complaints from the public that I hardly know where to begin. The same litter and little piles of dog poo can lie on the streets and in the alleys of Dunbar for weeks on end and I was told by the chief amenity officer of East Lothian Council that they had more important things to do than clean up dog poo which is our fault anyway, and certainly more pressing matters to attend to that pick up shopping trollies and old furniture which are dumped in the area. They never do pick up fly tipping. The residents no longer even bother to complain to the Council for fear of rudeness from Council staff and clear it up themselves.
Incidentally, this is the same chief amenity officer who thought up and implemented the spectacularly anti-social and illegal scheme of halting the clearing up of litter in Tranent to teach the residents a lesson.

37

JHC,

19/12/2006 10:14:15

Additional rubbish bins will not work - have you seen how many overflowing bins there are? I daily see the cleansing workers passing these as it is not their job, another department deals with this.

As a child we were perhaps brainwashed about litter, so much so that even today I always take home wrappers, bus tickets etc to bin.

Start at primary school. Have monitors fine litter droppers outside takeways at lunchtime - hit them hard in the pocket, that will stop them.

Oh, I forgot - compulsory education on how to bring up the children for the parents...................

38

Shug,

UK 19/12/2006 10:18:11

3. Society needs to have rules. Without them the place would fall apart. Best place to start is with the kids.

39

Harrisman,

19/12/2006 10:36:20

#37 don't know where this urban myth about essays in text-speak comes from but that's exactly what it is...a myth. As for education, youcan preach all you like to kids about litter but we live in a disposable society where relationships, marriage and even kids are disposed of when adults grow tired of them. What kind of a lesson is that to children?

40

M & S loyal,

Lochwinnoch 19/12/2006 10:44:56

If Renfrewshire District Council pick up enough rubbish can they pass it to the roads department and their bunch of useless navvies to fill in the hole in the road outside my house that they started on 18 months ago but allegedly ran out of material.

41

conservative,

Fife 19/12/2006 10:45:53

JHC #39

You are right about primary schools. This is already heppening on the environmental front where young children are having global warming drummed into them. Parents should do it but what are the chances of that.... We will see the results in a generation or two.

In the meantime if we actually enforced the anti-litter legislation we already have that would be a start.

42

Paul K,

Highland 19/12/2006 10:53:57

27# The latest version of Firefox has a built-in spell checker. American of course but reely usefull.

43

bill-alba,

fife 19/12/2006 11:00:24

#29....It isnt just Scots who litter you know..try looking in London - litter everywhere and really its just because most people are lazy bstds

44

Everything you do is a balloon,

19/12/2006 11:03:14

Is it legal to citizens arrest people for littering ? Could be fun.

45

IanW,

19/12/2006 11:14:52

Pete McClelland #30 - Hi Peter, no it should start at home. When I was young, many years ago, I was always taught, sometimes with a clip round the ear, that if I could not find a bin to put my rubbish in properly that I should always take it home.

It is education by the parents which will help solve this problem. We should not rely on schools to take on the role of parenting.

46

IanW,

Germany 19/12/2006 11:16:47

Everything you do is a balloon #46 - Yes it is legal to apprehend someone who has committed a criminal act. There are of course rules to how you do so but it would be a brave person to tackle the groups of yobs who do litter and who roam our streets.

47

Everything you do is a balloon,

19/12/2006 11:23:38

Ian , its typically not groups of yobs its normally schoolkids I think.

Its not like a big group of yobs going out and littering, big groups of yobs normally have drinking and trying to find women on the mind instead of romaing our streets dropping crispbags.

48

Liberal Nature,

Glasgow 19/12/2006 11:29:46

Being liberal in nature, I suggest that people who are caught dropping litter should have to pick up everything for 30 minutes. Chewing gum droppers should have to remove hardened gum with their hands from a square yard of Argyle Street or Princes Street. Failing that, reintroduce the stocks...

49

SarahT,

19/12/2006 11:42:49

Scots are probably the worst litterers in the whole of the UK. They are slovenly and lazy; they won't walk a mere two inches closer to a bin to throw away their litter. Its all part of this Scottish culture -- "its not my fault, I shouldn't have to do anything, the government should pick up the trash". Disgraceful behaviour among a large minority of people, who just don't care about the environment or other people. See how fat these people are getting on their crap intake of fried and other fast foods? Scotland's increasingly obese kids shamelessly drop their junk food litter all along the way to school in the morning. Who eats candy bars and chips for breakfast? What sort of parent lets their kids eat that in the morning? I have been all over the world -- rich and poor countries alike -- and I have seen only worse litter in places like China. The Scots want to sell Scotland to overseas visitors as a beautfiul place to come and visit, but visitors like me are repulsed by standards of hygiene in the city (and countryside) and the attitude of the public toward their environment. As for the councils -- they are just picking up after these slovenly lazy people.

Scotland should be ashamed of itself! The point is fast approaching when the state Scotland is in will deter anybody from wanting to visit anymore. Tourists from North America, are appalled at the level of graffiti, litter and fly-posting (have you seen the motorway routes from the airports? -- the verges are littered with garbage, especially Glasgow's, where there is still a mattress lying beside the road one year later!). Very sad state of affairs and nobody seems to really care. It will get far worse with the next generation of ASBO children, and no doubt we will see even more blogs on this website about the problem in the future.

50

Agent 99,

19/12/2006 11:52:10

[38] Kitty: So just exactly what does the so-called Chief Amenity Officer do? From the description of your experience very little I suspect. As to what the "more important things" are is anybody's guess.

This person sounds like a right self-serving tosser; remind me to inform him of the same next time I'm in Dunbar.

For too long now, the councils have been full of such people who fail to take the remit of their organisation seriously.

In the Borders we had an "Action Team" whose remit included clearing up dumped cars (seriously large pieces of litter) but they've either made themselves invisible or have been a victim of funding cutbacks. Even so, this is only tinkering at the edges of the problem. Like most posters here I think some education would go a long way. Lack of civic pride still remains an issue for the mass of chip-on-the-shoulder folk who live in Scotland.

The efforts which litterers will go to regularly astound me. There's a road from Innerleithen to Middleton. At the very point this road crosses from Borders into Lothian, there's a layby. Regular dumpings of things like carpets and refrigerators take place there. I cannot conceive of the type of person who will drive at least 15 miles into the wilderness to dump something that can be disposed of without charge at any number of disposal sites in the Borders (presumably Lothian too). Sick.

51

Billy,

Germany 19/12/2006 11:57:54

Astonishing, I really do despair for Scotland sometimes. We have the dirtiest city centres
I have ever come across, and our buses are
so dirty, my German wife now refuses to travel on
them whenever we visit. Now this is not something people can blame on the Tories, Catholic church or
any of the other scape-goats normally quoted on this site. This is down to a lack of civil pride, manners and social concious. Glasgow is a dirty city
and therefore so must be the people. (Natural conclusion)

In Germany, the streets are cleaned EVERY day, and the job is completed before most people are out of bed. As for the state of Glasgow's buses, that
should be a sourse of national embarrasment(It is for me). IN Europe as a whole , public transport is kept very clean at all times, Even the school buses are left clean. We are becoming a Nation of clatty pigs and what the council should do is NOT clean the streets until Glaswegians are wading through their own filth, maybe then they may pretend to notice.
(Proud of my city, shame about the people)

52

Media 1,

cape town 19/12/2006 11:59:08

The conclusion reached by the Code of Practice on Litter and Refuse: Is that they dont have a scoobie what to do.

Once again it is the authorities who must take the slack for litter.

Why not fine anyone who litters. Then use that money to pay the people who do the cleaning up.

200 pound fine for littering! Simple, easy and effective. you dont pay it then it gets docked of your wages. If you happen to a be a lay about then it is docked from your giro. If you are a minor then its a wrap on the knuckles and a letter to your parents from the council explaining that if it happens again then they will be fined.

No plan will work unless the people are forced to make it work. Its all about consequences and at the moment in Britian, there is none, not anywhere for anything.

53

Billy,

Germany 19/12/2006 12:36:32

Can we not get our armies of dole scroungers away from the pub,bookies or TV and get them out there keeping our streets , parks and rivers clean ? Where
does it say that you should be able to sit on your arse , for as long as you wish, without lifting a finger,
while the tax payer spoon-feeds you ?

Get them out in the fresh air WORKING. Anyone refusing to repay the tax payer for their life of leisure, should have their hand-outs slashed,
then invite them back the following week for the same conversation, no work , no hand-outs.

Is that really too hard, because it works, come over to Germany, check out our streets, which are traversed by a total of 80 million people, but with nothing like Scotland's filth problems. Oh and we fine people on the spot for dropping litter, employing people specifically to patrol the streets looking for litter bugs. Even the immigrant population get the mesage.

54

M & S loyal,

Lochwinnoch 19/12/2006 13:12:42

#52 Chief Amenity Officer, sounds like a made up job. duties involve being related to or sleeping with someone in the Scottish Parliament. Check with Joke McConnell on how to appoint someone to a made up job with no qualifications required.

55

Vinny,

Edinburgh 19/12/2006 13:16:56

The problem with that Billy #55 is that there is a culture of Human Rights Activists who help these people get away with it. I agree with you, but unfortunately it will never happen.

What would happen if I stopped paying taxes, I would get arrested and yet these lazy wasters get away with theft every week. If they can't work due to health, then fair enough, not just "I cannae work because I cannae" attitude.

56

serialdeviant,

Glasgow 19/12/2006 13:20:01

On-the-spot fines worked in Singapore and Hong Kong. And maybe tax the councils, where I live is shocking, no one cares about the condition of the streets and the coucil tax goes up while services are cut.

57

Krusty The Clown,

springfield 19/12/2006 13:22:19

...the problem here is that the majority of my fellow scots just don't give a phuck - they do what they want, when they want and still expect the tax payers to pay for it... we need a real radical kick in the balls before this country slips deeper into the mire... I've always been quite proud to be a Scot but not anymore... i am truly aghast at some of the pond life oxygen thiefs roaming our streets making life a misery for everyone they come into contact with...

They are a Virus with shoes... but unfortunately we don't have the cure yet.


#55... Well said Billy. Educate them and make the lazy feckers work for their dole in the communities that they take so much from...

58

Calum Crubag,

Alba, gu brath. 19/12/2006 13:28:59

Schools are fine. Most kids are extremely aware of environmental concerns and care deeply about it. It's when they get older and follow young adults that things go wrong. Or their parents who drive them 5 minutes to school in a 4x4 - that causes more damage and is just as unsightly as MacDonalds' cups.

59

Calum Crubag,

Alba, gu brath. 19/12/2006 13:32:34

Vinny, if people respected others 'human' rights then they wouldn't litter in the first place. We have hardly any people on the broo now. Better to have more polis catching the guys and getting THEM to clean up the streets.

60

Stuart W,

Dundee 19/12/2006 14:44:12

The litter problem is just one facet of our increasingly rule-breaking culture, brought about by things like the promotion of individual human rights and the abandonment of a concomitmant responsibilities.

And this page demonstrates another couple of reasons why this scenario arose in the first place, and why it's so difficult to subsequently reverse the trend:

- cries of 'authoritarianism' etc whenever it's suggested that people should be brought to book for things like littering - probably from the same type of liberal-thinking individualts who created the mess (literally in this case!) in the first place.

- an attempt by the Executive to shift the blame and fail to tacke the real problem, and an 80-page document and banner headlines makes it look like they're taking the problem seriously.

The bottom line is that all the code of practice will do is to shift resources so that some areas will be cleaner, but as a corollary some will be dirtier.

Thus merely rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

61

Everything you do is a balloon,

19/12/2006 14:52:38

Its up to us to make a difference. Dont be afraid to tell people off. Do it yourselves, stop relying on government.

And Stuart , you are havering man.

"the abandonment of a concomitmant responsibilities."

62

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 19/12/2006 15:07:47

Educating the kids at primary school about littering and other anti social behaviour is where it should start. I've never ceased to be amazed at people dumping litter in the streets just yards from a bin, chucking it out car windows when it is just as easy to take it home and getting in a car or van, driving into the countryside and dumping. Why not just drive to the local tip? Nothing will change until the laws are enforced. Organise offenders into clean up gangs and make them spend their weekends cleaning up our towns and countryside. Bit right wing?maybe, but it would work.

63

Everything you do is a balloon,

19/12/2006 15:14:37

Ken , it woludnt work , have you not read abour the number of people failing to show up for community service ?

Mash glass into their faces. Put spiders up their noses and make their feet bleed.

64

Martha,

19/12/2006 15:44:41

When the Scottish Executive is finished in your country, please send them over here to clean up Florida, a.k.a "The Litterbug State."

65

Stuart W,

Dundee 19/12/2006 16:00:04

# 63 Everything....

Why am I havering?

Is it because I can't spell concom-whatever and have an extraneous 'a' in the sentence, or are you criticising my substantive point?

If it's the former then to that extent most people in this thread are havering, if it's the latter then what's your point?

As for taking things into our own hands and not relying on govt, surely govt should have a hand in this? After all, that's what the law is all about - it's to guide us where it's considered that "self-regulation" won't work.

You're correct in that the public should play a greater role, but govt should take the lead, for the reasons cited above.

But since it increasingly isn't, that's why these problems have arisen - the state has retreated, thus public intervention is often fruitless, or, even worse, can result in abuse or even violence, thus people have stopped intervening.

Thus a viscous circle - the state steps back, the wrongdoers become emboldendened, thus individuals step back as well, etc, etc.

66

GT Anderson,

Austin, TEXAS 19/12/2006 16:13:15

In TEXAS.....it is "DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS".....
If you litter, you get fined and some judges are placing people on 'clean-up gangs'. May work in Scotland too.

67

mv,

19/12/2006 16:34:08

#51,55, well said, all too true, its a culture of "could not care less.." from the kids in the streets throwing their crisp packet on the street, to the "life" wasters who sit at home waiting for the government to provide for them, and now right up to the corrupt government!

Not surprised at some peoples attitude to litter when you enter some places, you just need to drive through some of these places, no pride in where they live and the moaning that its the governments fault, the councils fault etc....Its YOUR fault, get off your lazy behind and do something useful before your keel over with a heart attack from eating junk food....

Maybe a good use of the louts that roam these places would be some orange jump suits and a bag, then 8 hours of litter picking, but as with most things under Labour we would not want to force anybody to actually work for a living!

68

iain exile,

brighton 19/12/2006 16:37:12

Re 68. The Texans have got the right idea! Time to get tough - there is no sense of shame anymore. From street littering to politicians not resigning when it's the honourable thing to do. It's everyman for himself - all a bit depressing.
From an environmental point of view - the amount of plastic bottles in our rivers is unbelievable - something that non-fishers may not be aware of. The problem is quite staggering and is a total disgrace.
Neds lobbing irn-bru bottles out of car windows should get 3 points on their licence (if they've got one) and a £100 fine.

69

Old Roy,

Black Isle 19/12/2006 17:25:07

Good idea to use the dole lovers to get some fresh air and exercise to clean the streets. Schools require to set an example to youngsters, I have friends who live close to Nairn Academy and every lunch time pupils enroute from Bakers and chip shops discard wrappers etc on the pavements, hedges and gardens. So bad it gives the impression that the school encourages this behaviour. Teachers would be totally blind not to notice the mess which gets worse every day.

Shop-keepers used to wash their shop fronts and pavements daily, now the Council is expected to do this. Where has pride of appearance gone?

70

EX PAT,

SAN DIEGO 19/12/2006 17:29:24

MAYBE TRY DOING WHAT THEY DO HERE IN THE STATES . HAVE ALL THE PETTY CRIMINALS PICK IT UP . TRUST ME IT WORKS

71

iain exile,

brighton 19/12/2006 17:39:32

71. Don't worry I do. Been up and down the River Ayr for the last 5 years with my bin bags. Woods, walks etc as well - it's futile though.

72

Stuart W,

Dundee 19/12/2006 18:00:30

Yes, iain exile, it's futile.

And aren't you just pandering to the neds and politicians who have turned the country into a rubbish tip?

73

Robbie,

19/12/2006 18:02:02

3. Graeme, Hong Kong / 4:24am 19 Dec 2006
In supercilious mode said, “There should also be no smiling before 5pm, no games (as too competitive) and certainly no sex (disgusting messy business).”
Graeme it’s great having libertarian views and practices if you live alone, isolated in you own island but humans to survive in a society ‘need’ rules to apply on actions that affect others.
Studying, eating nutritious food and sex (actions you cited) are personal choices and no one even hints at regulating them. It’s when people actions cause, such as 29. Michael states, “Glasgow has to be the filthiest city in all of Europe” then the heavy hand of the State, local authorities or community should be brought to bear to stop littering. Somehow Graeme it will have to be cleaned up and that ends up a cost to all citizens.
I was ‘home’ about four years ago and visited the ‘Barrows ’in Glasgow. I could not believe the filth and litter it was like areas of a 3rd world city (sorry 3rd world readers) whole newspapers flying about plus bottles and food wrappers everywhere. At least it made the rest of the town look clean in comparison.
Perhaps with independence a national and civic pride will be reborn and Scots might try to show their country off in a better light. Let Scotland be famed for its ‘Worthies’ past and present, its lack of violent crime, its friendly people, its clean, tidy cities, its beautiful litter free countryside and its progressive fair Government. (Sorry I’ve been off ma medication- and that brings on dreams and hallucinations).

74

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/12/2006 18:05:52

media1. If the authorities are not responsible for the litter on their streets then who is? They are, after all, the authorities.

There are plenty of laws available for them to enforce should they put their minds to it.

75

Gairdener,

Ayr 19/12/2006 18:26:12

From DEFRA web site
Prosecutions for littering are brought under section 87 - Offence of Leaving Litter - of the Environmental Protection Act 1990. The offence is:

"A person is guilty of an offence if he throws down, drops or otherwise deposits any litter in any place to which this section applies and leaves it.”

The average fine is around £100 plus any costs the court awards. However, a person convicted of this offence could be liable to a maximum fine of £2,500 (a level 4 offence on the standard scale).

Know of anyone ever been fined under this law?

76

Harry Carnie,

British Columbia,Canada 19/12/2006 19:02:29

Everyone..if you really want to visit cities that are wonderfully clean,AND SAFE, you CAN. In Singapore, and Cuba, for example.
If you want to "feel at home in filth" just pay Vancouver (British Columbia, Canada) a visit. Filthy streets (and air) street people, beggars, crime,Traffic jams, and an inadequate public bus system. Here you can ENJOY a third world ambience
and feel right at home in squalor.
There is no one to blame(for filthy cities ) EXCEPT ALL OF YOU WHO LIVE THERE. Whether you contribute personally, by "chucking it" or accepting no enforcement of existing litter laws, by your elected officials. F.U.All.

77

Ken M,

Stenhousemuir 19/12/2006 19:33:34

Thank you the North Americans. In Scotland, we the public who moan at anti-social louts are subjected to abuse and physical violence from the perpetrators which is invariably backed up by the law. IE we are wrong.

So why not let those who are legally entitled to enforce, enforce. Is it not what we pay them for?

78

Rebecca J,

Maine, USA 19/12/2006 19:42:48

I have to say, a recent visit to Glasgow and Edinburgh completely blew me away. New York and Boston are filthy cities, but I never saw such complete disregard in front of anyone at anytime of day as I did there. People chucked umbrellas when the rain stopped, threw food waste and wrappers out of house and apartment windows on the street below and every empty lot was a refuse dump. It was such a tragedy for a country that is so ahead of the surve in renewable energy for all the right reasons! I 1 day garbage strike produce enough litter that Sauchihall had to be waded through! The Scotts wouldn't dream of letting anyone else dump on them, why dump on yourselves?

79

Isabel,

19/12/2006 20:42:19

Here we go again, having to pay through the nose to clean up after all the slobs, who most likely come from slobby parents. Having more litter bins isn't the answer as they are not always used by the lazy scumbags who drop litter within a few inches of them. Public flogging of the litter louts might bring better results.
#77 - The authorities don't drop the litter. It is dropped by the lazy, couldn't-care-less individuals who take no pride in keeping their cities as clean and attractive as possible.

80

Sambo,

The deep south 19/12/2006 21:07:51

Just curious, why is an American company's product shown on the picture?

81

Ileach,

19/12/2006 21:41:56

Should be evident from my name where I belong - and the complaints there are really minimal, as far as litter is concerned. I currently live in Texas, and yes, the "Don't Mess With Texas" action is quite effective; might even restore some local pride. The place where I work, though, has this beat. It is in everyone's job description - from the president down to the people cleaning up - that picking up litter that is encountered, and depositing it properly, is mandatory. I must say, our 6,000 employee campus is quite clean (even though our neighbor is the largest Salvation Army Post in the US).

82

John R.,

Indianapolis, Indiana USA 19/12/2006 22:28:06

Here in our citty we have the same problem with litter that your Scottish communities do, As our city center has 2 large sports venues , theaters, many hotels, some prominate churches and many quick food resturants.
We also have a central city bus loop with several stops. Almost every street corner has a Trash[litter] can. Signs encourage us to "Keep our City Clean"
We are a center for several big national conventions each year and hace a peofessianal Basketball and American style Football team. The people of our community are aware of the finanical
impact of TOurism in this cit5y and I think we may litter less because of it,
In the streets where we live , yes, wefind some litter in my area,it is stuf children drop on the way home from school. and quiuck food packaging and a ocassional alcoholic beverage bottle.
Our downtown litter cans are empited at least twice a weekday and once on Sunday. Our sanitastion crews are their to pick up the litterr after downtown outdoor festivals. If a policeman sees you drop trash , he can ticket you ; but will probable have you pick it up with any nearby trash and escort you to the nearest litter can.
Community pride plays a very inportant part in litter control, As many Scottish communities are dependent on tourism as ours is, then this is very important.
I do like the practical defination of Litter.

83

nick wilson,

vancouver, b.c. 19/12/2006 22:33:30

#80 Harry Carnie writes very disparaging of Vancouver, and on one point, the number of panhandlers, he is right, but I contest what he has to say about everything else and wonder what other cities he has lived in.

There are never quite enough buses; the traffic never runs quite as smoothly as one would wish; and the air is never quite as pure as you would like it, but where in the world is everything perfect.

Certainly not in London or Hongkong, my two previous home towns before emigrating to the near pristine West Coast!

And I would rather trip over the occasional candy wrapper than live in an overgoverned and regulated society as found in Singapore and Cuba.

84

Martha,

20/12/2006 03:09:30

There are states in the USA where littering is punished by comparatively heavy fines, and then there are states like Florida, where trash cans are apparently monuments to the city fathers but are not used for the purpose intended. All up and down I-4 between Tampa and Daytona Beach, roadside trash is all too evident. The locals blame the tourists and the tourists blame the locals, just as in Miami.

Some municipalities and counties in the US use "community service" sentences handed out by judges as a means to put petty criminals to work removing trash from public areas, but this practice is NOT that widespread so far as I know.

New England, New York, Pennsylvania and the midwest and the west coast highways are clean and generally litter-free, but the entire South is far less so, in my observation. And frankly, there's not a big city on the face of this earth that I have visited that I would describe as really "clean."

However, if anyone has traveled in the third world, I'm sure Edinburgh and Glasgow would be, comparatively speaking, like paradise.

It's far more like England and Scotland, in fact, when it comes to trash lying and blowing along the highway.

85

Isla Valassie,

Kirkcaldy 20/12/2006 04:43:13

I wonder if anyone else has noticed that the biggest culprit (on a daily basis) of littering is Her Majesty's own delivery persons - The Royal Mail.

Have you ever wondered where those red rubber bands come from that litter our pavements?!

86

Harry Carnie,

British Columbia, Canada 20/12/2006 09:07:29

#87 ...No doubt after Hongkong (or London) Vancouver does "look pretty good." Thirty years ago IT WAS A WONDERFUL CITY (It is NOT now)
Many European cities are MUCH cleaner(Paris , Berlin ...could go on)As for Singapore, or Cuba HAVE YOU been there?? Besides being clean, THEY ARE safe. As to being "overly regulated" if one is NOT breaking laws, they are friendly, pleasant ,countries. Welcome to dirty Vancouver ENJOY.


 

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