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Public transport . . unless you're a new mother



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Published Date: 17 July 2008
THE government is urging people to get out of their cars and use public transport. I am a new mum and in utter despair with Edinburgh transport.
Getting out the house with a young baby is hard enough without extra obstacles. I was about to get on the 26 bus when I was declined entry. I simply couldn't believe it.

I was informed that there is now a no-prams policy.

Ironically my wee b
undle of joy was actually secured in a car seat on the chassis of a pram, but seemingly that wasn't acceptable.

At first I though the driver was having a joke, albeit in bad taste. He then explained it was on the grounds of health and safety.

He then proceeded to show me the written guidance from Lothian Buses.

I then contacted Lothian Buses. Seemingly buggies are fine.

I could not, however, get a clear explanation as to why they are OK and other travel systems are not. They have advised me they will be in touch once they have received clarification around this policy.

I am a new mum. I don't drive – how can I get around the city without public transport?

I guess I will just have to sit in the house and wait for a resolution.
Caroline Burgess, Craigmount Avenue North, Edinburgh

Less say in Europe than Luxembourg
I AM surprised that no Scottish newspaper reported the fact that on July 9 Labour and Tory MPs at Westminster voted to reduce Scotland's representation in Europe from seven MEPs to six.

It has obviously escaped our Westminster MPs' attention that Scotland has distinctive business, civic, legal, political and religious institutions which are not adequately supported in Europe.

We are now in the ludicrous position whereby Luxembourg, with a population much less than Edinburgh now has the same number of MEPs as Scotland.

If Scotland was independent we would have similar representation as Denmark with 15 MEPs to represent our interests in Europe and we cannot rely on Westminster to look after Scotland's interests.
Paul Cavanagh, Southhouse Square, Edinburgh

Decision is the right one for community
DAVID FIDDIMORE'S letter (July 15) provides an opportunity to give another perspective on Caltongate.

People held differing views on the project and Mr Fiddimores's perspective is hardly in a monopoly. His use of emotive language highlights the need for a mechanism for resolving the very different views held. That mechanism is ultimately provided in the Planning Committee, which has the task of making a decision.

For my part, I noted the evidence carefully and spent time assessing the issues involved – and came to a quite different conclusion from Mr Fiddimore – and voted for the project to go ahead.

Not everyone in my ward voted for me to be their councillor. But their differing views were resolved by the predetermined system – which is our form of democracy. So it was with Caltongate. A majority of those charged with the decision voted for it.

I have seen nothing since taking the decision to suggest it was anything other than the right one for the local community as a whole and for the city.

In due course the electors in my ward can make their judgement on my decisions.
Cllr Cameron Rose, Planning Committee, Edinburgh Council

Yanks nearly had him joining ranks
MOST interested to read the letter by John Dick re the American Marine detachment in the 1958 military tattoo (News, July 9).

Having been dragged into national service with the KOSB and then "volunteered" to present arms as the performers crossed the drawbridge at the Castle for the princely sum of 1/6d per day, I must admit that the Americans were a revelation.

They all seemed to be made from the same mould with white plastic tops on their hats (no runny white blanco in the rain), chrome bayonets and wonderful drill display. They were only matched that year by the magnificent Gurkha contingent.

What a pity the film made is not available as the public showed their appreciation with tremendous applause and made me think about signing on, but only for about two minutes.
Ian Cameron, Mayburn Crescent, Loanhead

Growing with pride at Square
I HAVE visited and spent time in the recently opened public space at St Andrew Square on more than a dozen occasions. The landscaping is coming into its own, the ambience is tranquil and it is great to see so many people enjoying the space.

In the past there has been some negative comment about the council's attitude to parks. All I can say is that from my recent experience the council are doing a good job. Here in Portobello we have a new community garden, at a not considerable cost and at least three more new parks are planned in the next three or four years.

It is too much to say that the city is perfect, but we should give credit when and where its is due.
Stephen McIntyre, Portobello High Street, Edinburgh






The full article contains 838 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 17 July 2008 9:50 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Dragonlord,

17/07/2008 14:03:45
New mother? Maybe, but what size was the " buggy". Mothers today can supply a small army with the stuff they lug around for one tiny infant.
Perhaps common sense is a thing of the past, but I can't see the need for " buggies" bigger than a small pushchair.
2

pofi,

17/07/2008 14:14:57
If a pram/buggy cannot be folded then it cannot go on a bus. As wheelchair users take priority for the limited space available then parents must make way for them. In the past wheelchair users have been denied entry because parents have been unwilling to fold their buggies. Some could argue that that is discrimination against the disabled. You could use a baby sling, buy a small buggy or even walk; the disabled have no alternative other than a taxi. My mother walked everywhere when I was a baby, no way a Silver cross pram could ever get on a bus!
3

Dragonlord,

17/07/2008 14:30:11
2# you are right. However the point should be stressed that the space is for disabled people and states this clearly. Many parents are so selfcentered they refuse to move. IMHO the bus driver should make them, if they do not respond to being asked politely.
4

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

17/07/2008 14:44:11
When I were a lad, the pram would go into the boot of the bus and the kid be taken onboard. Don't buses have a boot any more?
5

MWP,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 14:49:42
Oh you lot are so bloody predictable. Buses are for everyone, so get a life and try helping parents with small children to cope with folding pram and trying make sure their charges are safe instead of sitting on your bums whinging and generally being no use to anyone.


6

tomias,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 14:52:23
It was and will be easier on a tram.
7

pofi,

17/07/2008 15:22:25
#5 I already do. What makes you assume that I/we don't?! And what use are you to anyone exactly?! The signs on the buses state quite clearly that the spaces available should be given up for wheelchair users.
8

Eliz,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 15:37:30
#6 What makes you think it will be different on a tram? Two thirds of passengers will stand and there will still be shared space for wheelchairs/buggies on board. Doubtless the same rules will apply regarding prams. Remember this much-vaunted tram's desination is supposed to be somewhere within a day's hike to the airport - lots of suitcases to find room for. Anyway, the tram is only one expensive line and does not serve the city.

I agree with Caroline Burgess in this. My daughter-in-law had the same trouble yesterday on her first trip out with her new baby. The powers-that-be have got to get this sorted out or a whole generation of young mums will revert to using cars if they possibly can.
9

MWP,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 15:45:16

I think it's a pretty safe bet. And there's no issue in this letter with any disabled person, so I don't know what you're on about here.

Anyway, it would just make life in this increasingly hard-to-bear city a bit more bearable if we all ccepted that buses are for everyone, not just whatever user group you support. Try turning your energies on to those who refuse to use public transport, for example. Just leave people simply trying get around the city on their daily business alone. Parents, disabled, workers, older people, younger people. We're all just trying to get on with life. Cut other people a little slack. Celebrate the fact that this mother chose the bus. That's all I'm saying.

Or do you really think it should be all be run just as you see fit and hell mend the rest of us? Oh, I think I might just know the answer to that one.... I know I'm on a hiding to nothing here. It's just so sad to see this constant abuse towards others, parents and children in this case, but it could be anyone. Could be you next time.
10

Bleeding Heart...,

17/07/2008 17:04:27
#9 Your "argument" sounds a tad personal to me, and certainly doesn't address the point(s) made in #2.

No-one is saying that buses are NOT "for everyone".

Surely the point here is that the welfare, safety, and comfort of the majority (including special cases such as the disabled) must inevitably mean that there are restrictions on what an individual can bring onto a bus.

In this case, if a disabled person had sought to board the bus at a later stop, what would you suggest should have happened? That the disabled person be refused access because the space designated for their wheelchair was being commandeered by a pram with a car seat?

The lady in question says she now knows that "buggies are fine". I suspect she now also knows what she needs to do in future if she wants to use the buses.
11

MWP,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 17:23:09
#9 I never said I was addressing any points #2 made.

You seem to be suggesting that restrictions on 'what people can bring on a bus' should extend to children. That's hardly buses for everyone now is it?

Every bus user is a hero in my book. More so users who have the extra burden of a disability, caring for others or just big, heavy bags of shopping!

Let everyone use the buses. This you-shouldn't-be-allowed-to-use-the-buses-because... discussion is tiresome. It's PUBLIC transport. The clue is in the name.

12

Bleeding Heart...,

17/07/2008 18:03:23
#11 "I never said I was addressing any points #2 made".

No, you didn't. You were pursuing your "freedom-for-all" line.

However, I suggest you need to address the points in #2 since THEY are the points at issue here.

Your comment that I...

"seem to be suggesting that restrictions on 'what people can bring on a bus' should extend to children. That's hardly buses for everyone now is it?"

...is risible. Where am I suggesting such a thing?

Let everyone use the buses by all means. But let's recognise that issues of finite space and health & safety will inevitably bring some restrictions on behaviour.

Or do you think the smoking ban on buses is "tiresome" because it restricts what people can do..?





13

pofi,

17/07/2008 19:32:22
#9 You appear to be unaware of the well reported events which lead to the recent change of policy by Lothian Buses on prams and buggies.

There have been growing numbers of complaints by disabled wheelchair users denied entry on buses owing to parents refusing to fold down their prams and buggies or stating that they are unable to do so. This despite the notices on each bus in the designated wheelchair/buggy area stating that wheelchairs have priority.

Quite rightly Lothian Buses are addressing this problem by having drivers ask parents on entering buses whether they can fold their prams and buggies. If they can't then they can't get on. Have a look at scumbus.com, the Lothian Bus drivers "unofficial" web site and you will see that they have also been frustrated at the previous situation.

All that is being asked of parents is that they show consideration towards others.

There is absolutely no need for you to be so disparaging towards those with a different point of view from yourself. You may wish to consider all the facts before spouting forth in future.

 

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