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Media missed the real story behind bishop's comments on 'gay lobby'



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Bishop Joseph Devine has done nothing more than repeat Catholic teaching on homosexuality in his lecture, while pointing out that the UK is now effectively a "gay" state where dissent from the new social and sexual mores is simply not tolerated (Opinion, 13 March).
Of course, as usual, the media misses the real story here, which is not that Bishop Devine propounded Catholic teaching on a moral issue such as homosexuality and exhorted a Catholic audience to recognise this vice for what it is; that's what Bishops
must do.

The real story is that he chose to do so from a platform which is an annual launching base for a series of assaults on the Church under the guise of pseudo-intellectual "lectures" run by the Jesuits in Glasgow, thereby giving credibility to these "lectures" and appearing to endorse the dissent which is their hallmark. That, conversely, is what bishops, according to canon (Church) law, must not do.

PATRICIA McKEEVER

Editor, Catholic Truth

Sandyford Place

Glasgow


Bishop Joseph Devine's bizarre opinions, outlandish conspiracy theories and scary views on parenting cause me, and I suspect many others (Catholics and non-Catholics), a great degree of alarm. It is ironic that he invokes the Holocaust to demonstrate what he says: the Jews were demonised by the Nazis; what followed their demonisation is all-too-well known.

Conspiracy theories demonise, as his does. It is alarming to think he can speak as he does without seeming to care what results.

Many gay Catholics are self-hating, shame-ridden and marginalised, and made to feel unwelcome in the Church; there's no surprise here, when senior churchmen speak like Bishop Devine. I have written to Bishop Devine to ask him how he can reconcile what he says with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

(FR) ED HONE CSsR

High Street

Edinburgh

As a Catholic, I was outraged by Bishop Devine's comments on Tuesday evening. Isn't it ironic that he chose to attack and marginalise the gay community in a lecture where he was also discussing the damaging effects of sectarianism?

If sectarianism teaches us anything, it is that setting groups against each other leads to hatred and division. He is completely out of step with mainstream opinion, even among the rest of the Catholic community in Scotland.

As a former pupil of St Aloysius' College – where the lecture took place – I also hope that they choose to distance themselves from his comments. Bishop Devine's statements represent an extreme of Catholic opinion and not the kind of sentiment I remember from a school that taught me to challenge prejudice and work for the good of others.

MARTIN McCLUSKEY

President, Oxford University Student Union

Bonn Square

Oxford


I am less surprised by the puerile, uncivilised, bigoted ramblings of Bishop Tom Devine than by the media's persistence in reporting the predictable (if strangely amusing) diatribes on homosexuality from Bishops Devine, Conti, and O'Brien.

The media does not ask binmen for their views, although they would probably evidence a greater degree of intelligent and mature theological reflection than the average Scottish Roman bishop seems capable.

PAUL MIDDLETON

High Street

Lampeter, Ceredigion






The full article contains 532 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 16 March 2008 8:30 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Gay and Lesbian issues
 
1

Boy Wonder,

17/03/2008 01:14:58
I know lots of Catholics, having been raised as one and was an altar boy for two years ... and absolutely NONE of them subscribe to the kind of homophobic rubbish the Catholic heirarchy have uttered in recent years.

Maybe the Church(es) are homophobic ... but their Man-God Founder was most certainly not ... not if you read their bibles! According to the Gospels, Jesus was qwuite happy to mix with the "undesirables" of society! Wasn't that the basis of the "new compact" he was making with Man, which differed greatly from the old traditions of the Jewish People? Didn't he preach tolerance and forgiveness, peace and understanding? Am I wrong in my reading of the New Testament and the intentions of Jesus of Nazareth?

Okay, I'm a godless heathen nowadays, so what would I know? Maybe everybody the Christian Church doesn't like should just become Buddhists, instead!
2

Beth Boyle,

NY 17/03/2008 04:11:23
The relentless procession of articles in the Scotsman bashing Catholics shows Scotland has not outgrown her hatred of Rome. So very sad it this.
3

Pilrig.,

Livingston 17/03/2008 06:27:37
2 - nonsense. Any hatred of RCs is confined to a dwindling number of retards in Lanarkshire and Ayrshire backwaters.
4

Itchy,

17/03/2008 06:57:32
#2 It doesn't help when leading members of the church demonize sections of the public like Bishop Devine does.

This idiot seems to want gays arrested and his conspiracy theory views are truly cretinous.
5

Argyll on line,

Argyll 17/03/2008 08:08:41
PAUL MIDDLETON
High Street
Lampeter, Ceredigion
Writes.
'I am less surprised by the puerile, uncivilised, bigoted ramblings of Bishop Tom Devine'

The fact that Middleton cannot even get the Bishop's name right lets us see just how much he knows about the subject. Also lets us see just how careless is The Hootsman in allowing idiotic letters attacking the Bishop.



6

Unimpressed one,

17/03/2008 08:14:00
"The relentless procession of articles in the Scotsman bashing Catholics shows Scotland has not outgrown her hatred of Rome."

And why not, since catholicism is as much a cancer on the planet as Islamism is.
7

Infidel,

Dar ul harb 17/03/2008 09:38:14
Does Patricia McKeever realise just how comical she is?

"the UK is now effectively a "gay" state"
It took me a minute to stop laughing at that one.

"where dissent from the new social and sexual mores is simply not tolerated"
There is a hige difference between criticism and not being tolerated. All the Bishop got was a verbal lambasting. He was not imprisoned, or beaten up by the police, or hanged. If McKeever wants to know what real intolerance is like she should try being openly gay in Iran.
8

Infidel,

Dar ul harb 17/03/2008 09:41:53
BoyWonder #1.

"Maybe the Church(es) are homophobic ... but their Man-God Founder was most certainly not"

Wrong! In the sermon on the mount (Matt. 5: 17-21) Jesus instructs his followers to obey every one of the Levitical laws. These include death for gays. As he took a harsh line on sexuality generally (saying that even looking at a woman with desire was tantamount to committing adultery with her in one's heart, and also praising those who castrate themselves) he is unlikely to have been liberal minded about men fancying men, or women women.
9

Infidel,

Dar ul harb 17/03/2008 09:42:48
Well said no 6.
10

James,,

17/03/2008 09:42:51
I wonder what Bishop Joseph "Tom" Devine actually said, as opposed to the spin put on his lecture by the media?

Can anyone post a link to the full text? Until then, I think many people are making judgements on what he said on the basis of quotations taken out of context.
11

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 17/03/2008 10:06:51
I just wish that homosexuals woud stop describing themselves as 'gay'. It used to be a lovely word that could never be descriptive of two men or women having sex with each other. It's a total misuse of the word as are 'happy-slapping' and 'joy-riding' total inappropriate terms as well.
12

Boy Wonder,

17/03/2008 10:14:35
#8. Infidel .. that's not what I read in the passage. Jesus was confirming his beatitudes and never once singles out the "love that dare not speak its name". Adultery yes, homosexuality no.

But then, this stuff was written long after Jesus died. Of course everything was interpreted and re-interpreted to fit a world-view for early christians! Whether this "sermon on the mount" actually occurred at all ... is down to whether you believe it or not.

I don't! It's all superstitious twaddle to me, with some genuine good stuff all people should follow ... but it's mixed up with early homophobic crap too. Besides if we followed everything Leviticus says we should do ... a good 9/10s of the world population would be under a sentence of death for NOT following it!

Grow up!
13

Miss H,

17/03/2008 10:30:23
10 I don't think there is a full text but the quaotations are as follows:

‘The homosexual lobby has been extremely effective in aligning itself with minority groups....It is ever-present at the service each year for the Holocaust memorial - as if to create for themselves the image of a group of people under persecution." Devine went on to say: "We neglect the gay movement at our peril. Issues around sexuality are powerful factors in shaping public policy....I want to ask you if you are able to see the giant conspiracy that's taking place before our eyes, even if we didn't see it at the time....I take it you're beginning to see that there is a huge and well-orchestrated conspiracy taking place, which the Catholic community completely missed."

When asked a parent should do if their child tells them that they are gay: "This must be a nightmare moment for any parent....I would try to handle it with a degree of compassion....But I would not tolerate that kind of behaviour. I would not condemn but I would not tolerate it."

On the basis of those comments it is pretty clear to me that the Bishop has gone a bit bonkers. I suspect that none of what he said was actually scripted. He's just lost it.

14

A McBay,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 11:15:07
It is interesting to note that the title of Bishop Devine's Gonzaga lecture that has caused this rumpus was 'Sectarianism and Secularism - Bugbears for the Catholic Church in Scotland'.

And here we find Patricia McKeevor from Catholic Truth Scotland weighing in to the debate with a sectarian rant of her own at the Jesuits. Her web site reveals she wrote to Bishop Devine before the lecture, demanding that he refuse to take part, and condemning a lecture given by another priest at the same series.

She has also issued a challenge to Father Hone who writes a letter here, and who in any event is a favourite target of hers, to debate the issues the Bishop has raised.

I don't suppose the Bishop was lecturing at St Aloysius about the sectarianism within his own church, but clearly there is much to sort out there before he turns his guns on the rest of Scottish society, gay or straight.

At least he knows now where the "bugbears" are!
15

Normal!,

Nairn 17/03/2008 11:45:46
#1 Interesting to note that Jesus was quite happy to mix with the "undesirables". Most of us will be quite happy to mix with them also - just stop trying to tell us they are normal!
16

James,,

17/03/2008 13:03:19
#13,

On the basis of those quotes, the Bishop has done himself no favours with the language and tone he used. They are still out of context though.

17

Infidel,

Dar ul harb 17/03/2008 15:22:39
Joppa Jock 11:

"I just wish that homosexuals woud stop describing themselves as 'gay'. It used to be a lovely word"

What about the word "q*eer"? That used to be a useful little word, until the bigots got hold of it. I even had to replace the "u" with "*" to get it past the automatic censor and post it here. Likewise, one has to be careful about the word "fag". And there was never any need to invent terms like "poof", "battyman", "nancy boy" ....

It's not gays who have been spoiling the English language.
18

Infidel,

Dar ul harb 17/03/2008 15:26:26
BoyWonder #12:

Yes it is all superstitious twaddle, but my point was that (assuming the gospels report his words accurately - a big assumption, I know) Jesus is unlikely to have taken a sympathetic stance on gays, judging by the other things he said.
19

Solomon,

Dunfermline 17/03/2008 20:55:42
#11 Well said!
Thank God for Bishops Devine, Conti, and O'Brien.
20

Beth Boyle,

NY 18/03/2008 03:04:23
You want to know what the real story is? The real story the press missed is that the extremists in the Church and in the Gay rights movement are holding the rest of us hostage and politicizing every aspect of life to the point they are destroying all normalcy. The political correctness and the haters are making it impossible for teachers to teach and preachers to preach. It's making people fearful of sleeping with the person they love most and of raising their children the way they believe is right. I am so sick of the extremists on all sides telling the rest of us how to live!
21

shirleyone03,

ny 18/03/2008 03:47:36
That's what they often omitted. Don't know why LGBT always are be refuse. I am here to be brave to admit that i am bisexual at http://www.bimingle.com and I also make many friends there. They are also kind and love the world just as other straight people do.
22

Why can't I use my usual name?,

Glasgow 18/03/2008 16:31:10
Maybe that's true in NY, but not here, on the whole.

 

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