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Published Date: 06 July 2009
THERE has been some interesting and thought-provoking recent correspondence in your Letters column on the topic of man-made global-warming.
But there are some further points that should be borne in mind. For instance, the Piri Reis map, dated 1513, shows the coastline of Antarctica (according to the US Air Force), which is still buried under a huge quantity of ice. Could it have been m
apped by the Chinese fleet that circumnavigated the globe in the 1420s?

A recent melting of ice in the Alps revealed a pass which was clearly in use during the Roman and Medieval periods. Carbon-dating of plant remains in Greenland at a location from which the ice has recently retreated shows that the roots dated from the time that the Vikings settled there around 1000AD, clearly finding its climate congenial.

According to NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, the warmest years of the 20th century were, in order: 1934, 1998, 1921, 2006, 1931, 1999, 1953, 1990, 1938 and 1939. So six of the top ten were more than 50 years ago; five were 70 or more years ago. Proponents of the "greenhouse gas" hypothesis explain that recent alleged global warming has been caused by the increase in output of by cars, planes and industry since the Second World War and especially since the 1970s. Do they have explanations for the points I have raised, or will they simply scream that I am denying facts, when, like most of us, I simply want a credible explanation of a phenomenon which seems readily explicable and not particularly alarming?

ANDREW HN GRAY

Craiglea Drive

Edinburgh


Paul Chitnis (Letters, 2 July) claims: "Doing our fair share to tackle climate change is a simple matter of justice" and "It is perfectly reasonable to claim that Scotland can punch above its weight by showing other countries what can and must be achieved."

I can only assume he was not watching the BBC news channel on 24 June, which said: "SNP ministers acknowledged an 80 per cent cut in emissions in itself would make no difference on a global scale."

It may well be the case that, "the poorest and most vulnerable, whose carbon footprints are virtually negligible are the most exposed to the dangers of climate change", although I note Mr Chitnis did not use the term "man made climate change", but there are far better ways of improving the lot of such people than setting meaningless carbon cutting targets and signing up to worthless bits of legislation such as the Climate Change (Scotland) Bill.

NEIL McKINNON

Tulchan Garden

Glenalmond, Perth


I do hope Bill Jamieson (26 June) is right. Then my grandchildren can continue in the habits we have taught them – profligate use of energy as if there is no tomorrow. I welcome the Scottish Climate Bill as yet another wake-up call to all of us. There is evidence that oil is becoming more difficult and expensive to extract. Consequently, we should be learning to use less of it.

Burning any fossil fuel and producing ever-increasing concentrations of carbon dioxide runs the risk, of climate change, with potentially catastrophic damage to lives and food supplies. Surely we owe it to the next generation to reduce that risk. If the dangers turn out to be less than many fear, some actions, for example increasing insulation of buildings, will save money and provide employment now. The Climate Bill encourages such action.

DR JOHANNA CURRIE

Caiystane View

Edinburgh






The full article contains 590 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 July 2009 9:00 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

nabodican,

Newton Stewart 06/07/2009 07:51:37
Dr Johanna Currie need not worry, Bill Jamieson is right. She has simply followed the sheep in their adoration of Al Gore.
Oil, far from being more difficult and expensive to extract, is easier and cheaper than ever due to the technologies being employed now.
Carbon is far from being the baddie that all the scaremongers make it out to be.
She should worrry more about getting the tea on the table for her hubby and kids.
2

Martinh,

06/07/2009 08:52:38
Andrew Gray is deliberately misleading in cherry picking data from NASA referring to the top 10 warmest years that apply to the United States only (48 States). Despite the proviso from NASA that differences between years are smaller than the measurement uncertainties, the global rankings from this same table are 2005,1998,2007,2002,2003,2006,2001,2004,2008,and 2007.

Of greater value to the debate is the data from NASA updated to December 2008. See http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2008/. This shows that the 10 warmest global average temperatures, including the usual 95% confidence limits that underpin all statistical analysis have all occurred in the period 1997-2008.

Does this help you Mr Gray and why not try honesty rather than subterfuge when presenting data?
3

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 06/07/2009 08:54:34
'the Piri Reis map, dated 1513, shows the coastline of Antarctica (according to the US Air Force)'

I didn't realise the US Air Force was around in 1513, amazing!
4

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 06/07/2009 08:59:20
'Could it have been mapped by the Chinese fleet that circumnavigated the globe in the 1420s?'

No:

1421: The Year China Discovered the World is a 2002 book written by retired submarine commander and amateur historian Gavin Menzies positing that Chinese explored the world before the European Age of Discovery. Menzies' main theses are dismissed by professional historians as pseudohistorical fiction.

Wikipedia
5

gus1940,

Edinburgh 06/07/2009 09:47:28
Assuming that the deposits were not exhausted but that closure was caused by no longer being competitive agains cheap Middle East oil and given the current high oil prices does anybody know if consideration has ever been given to the revival of the West Lothian Shale Oil Industry?
6

n/,

Perth 06/07/2009 11:19:39
'Then my grandchildren can continue in the habits we have taught them – profligate use of energy as if there is no tomorrow'???????????

Why is that so many who have embraced this new MMCC religion always seem to want to generalise and tar everyone with the same brush?

Instead of following those who promote the idea of MMC, many to achieve for their own aims,why not start taking responsibility for your own grandchildren Dr Johnna Currie, and maybe even open their minds to the idea that those who are pushing the climate change agenda may not be quite the saints they are all trying ever so hard to make themselves out to be.

In stating' I do hope Bill Jamieson (26 June)'is right you at least show that you have an open mind, so that is a very good start.
7

n/,

Perth 06/07/2009 11:24:31

cont,..........and of course there is indeed no need for 'profligate use of energy as if there is no tomorrow'..........nor is there any need for a wasting of resources of any sort.
8

El Franko,

06/07/2009 11:47:23
Some of the mental contortions and scientific distortions of the arlamists are neatly summarised in this paper: http://sciencespeak.com/NoEvidence.pdf

Only 18 pages, and lucid.
9

Martinh,

06/07/2009 14:10:03
#9. There is an equally cogent refutal of Dr David Evans who you link to and who wrote this in http://bravenewclimate.com/2008/08/10/dr-david-evans-born-again-alarmist/

When his assertions actually come in for scientific scrutiny they are not sustainable, so instead of engaging in real debate Evans simply repeats the same elsewhere, fairly typically of global warming deniers of Mankind's influence in this. In other words what Evans wrote is a point of view only, but not backed up by hard facts.
10

Martinh,

06/07/2009 14:23:08
Oh and here's another one about Dr David Evans. http://www.desmogblog.com/who-is-rocket-scientist-david-evans. As you can see he has not actually published a single peer reviewed scientific paper in his life on climate science.
11

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 06/07/2009 14:35:40
The above letter by ANDREW HN GRAY repeats the oft-rebutted claim that 1934 was the warmest year, whereas anyone with any familiarity with the temperature record knows that that was for the contiguous 48 states of the USA only (as MartinH points out).

His letter is thus just another example of a falsehood that keeps being repeated long after it is shown to be false.

Another example is kindly supplied by El Franko in the Dr David Evans article to which he links. Here, one of the main planks of Evans argument is that warming due to CO2 should cause a "hotspot" in the tropical troposphere. He claims the hotspot is missing.

He is wrong on two points. Firstly, the "hotspot" should be present whatever the cause of warming, therefore its presence or absence is not a measure of the efficacy of CO2. Secondly, the hotspot is not actually missing. See, for example:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/05/tropical-tropopshere-ii/

That causes much of Evans article to fall flat on its face. But I don't suppose for a minute that that will stop such falsehoods continuing to do the rounds.
12

frank mcbride,

lusitania 06/07/2009 15:43:34
Martinh & Slioch.

What have you to say about this report:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport

or this,

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/15/goddard_arctic_ice_mystery/
13

seanie,

06/07/2009 15:46:49
http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/inhofe-global-warming-deniers-47011101

"Inhofe's 400 Global Warming Deniers Debunked

List of "Scientists" Includes Economists, Amateurs, TV Weathermen and Industry Hacks"

Try harder.
14

seanie,

06/07/2009 15:49:02
http://climateprogress.org/2008/01/16/more-on-the-laughable-padded-inhofe-400/

More on the laughable, padded “Inhofe 400?

15

nabodican,

Newton Stewart 06/07/2009 17:35:38
Seanie says :
List of "Scientists" Includes Economists, Amateurs, TV Weathermen and Industry Hacks"

This comment could equally well apply to the IPCC.

The main problem with all these politically driven organisations is that they start with supposition that not only is the planet warming, but it is down to man and the main culprit is co2. None of these suppositions have been peer reviewed and anyone within these organisations who disagreed was soon given short shrift.
As the computer models were designed around these assumptions, it did not matter what was inputed, the conclusion would be the same. The classic case was Hansen and his hockey stick curve which Seanie, Slioch and Fred do not like to be reminded about.
Another was the impending doom from "rising sea levels"
The model was predetermined to show a trend, but as there was no trend they used one measurement from Singapore of a 2.3mm rise in one year only and scaled it up for the whole world.
An interesting book on all of this waffle is "The politically incorrect guide to global warming" by Christopher C Horner - check it out Seanie and Slioch as I can't be botherede cutting and pasting furiously like you guys do. when you have doen with that I will recommend a few other good reads.
16

nabodican,

Newton Stewart 06/07/2009 17:36:15
Sorry for the finger trouble !!!
17

seanie,

06/07/2009 18:17:20
The 'hockey stick' curve has been confirmed by numerous paleo-climate reconstructions, but none of them have been authored by Hansen.

Why can you not even get basic things like that right?
18

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 06/07/2009 18:27:48
#16 nabodican

"The classic case was Hansen and his hockey stick curve which Seanie, Slioch and Fred do not like to be reminded about."

Since it was not Hansen* who wrote the "hockey stick" paper, perhaps we can be forgiven for reacting with dumbfounded silence when you refer to it. Likewise, I can't imagine you showing much interest if I started banging on about Winston Churchill inventing the internet.

* it was Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998).

 

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