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Top officer says nation can't afford bill for legendary police pipe band

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Published Date: 19 June 2009
SCOTLAND'S oldest and most celebrated police pipe band should be scrapped to boost the fight against crime, a senior officer has told The Scotsman.
Chief Superintendent John Pollock said that growing pressure on police budgets means that the Strathclyde Police Pipe Band is now a luxury that the force can no longer afford.

He said that ceasing to bankroll the band is one of several "hard deci
sions" that Strathclyde's chief constable, Steve House, should make to ensure the force is able carry out its primary role of protecting the public.

It is understood that several hundreds of thousands of pounds are being spent every year on the pipe band, both in terms of the time devoted by serving officers to practising and performing and the expense of travelling to major competitions throughout Scotland and overseas.

Strathclyde Police Pipe Band was created by an act of parliament in 1883 as the Govan Police Band. It has won 20 World Pipe Band Championships, including 11 championships in the years from 1979-91, and an unrivalled six in a row.

But the amount of resources devoted to running the band has come under the spotlight in recent months, amid tight spending settlements and a Scottish Government efficiency drive on the public sector that is requiring police forces to find annual savings of 2 per cent.

Pipers have already voiced anger at cost-cutting measures which will result in the band being able to take part in fewer events.

Senior officers announced earlier this year that the band would only be free to take part in the big five events in the pipe band calendar – the Scottish, British, and European championships, Cowal, and the World Championships – which are attended by tens of thousands of people every year.

Attendance at other events, such as community galas, will be at the discretion of the chief constable.

However, Mr Pollock, who is president of the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents, is urging Mr House to go even further and pull all funding from the band due to growing pressure on core police services from tighter public spending and growing demands on forces.

He said: "Difficult decisions will have to be taken by chief constables.

"If we accept we are in a hard place at the moment, then I think some hard decisions will have to be taken. One example, in my own force, is the pipe band. What is the financial legitimacy of continuing to fund the pipe band?

"There is undoubtedly a fine tradition, so it's not going to be an easy decision."

Mr Pollock added: "I'm not saying I don't like the pipe band. But when harsh realities come, what would the public expect of us?

"For the sum of money spent on the band we would have a number of additional officers on the street and a number of different supervisors making sure officers are doing what they are asked to do.

"I recently asked a senior figure in the private sector, what would you do? He said, from the business side, scrap it; from the emotional side, keep it.

"We don't have that luxury."

Mr Pollock stressed that he would be fully supportive of the band if members chose to practise and perform in their own time, or if the government chose to fund it through money for culture and the arts.

"But I don't think it should fall to the police and to the public," he added.

Assistant Chief Constable John Neilson said the chief constable was "justifiably proud" of the affection that exists for the pipe band.

"The pipe band will continue for the foreseeable future, however it must be remembered that it is made up of police officers and members of police staff and that they have a responsibility to provide policing services to the people who live and work in the Strathclyde Police force area," he said.

"The pipe band will continue to compete in major competitions and support community events throughout the force area to spread the public reassurance message of Strathclyde Police.

"Additional requests will be balanced against operational commitments and other planned major events."



The full article contains 700 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 June 2009 9:00 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Law and Order
 
1

Teofilio Cubillas,

19/06/2009 01:23:32
"I recently asked a senior figure in the private sector, what would you do? He said, from the business side, scrap it; from the emotional side, keep it"

And so, like the Scottish Regiments, it all comes down to the bottom line. No place for pride, passion and other such ephemeral qualities. Let's just save a few quid and live in a soulless culture-free desert.

How much more can I save to impress the boss and get another notch up the greasy pole?

2

Anonym,

19/06/2009 03:27:31
Difficult decision, my bum. Resign, Pillock!
3

donald,

glasgow 19/06/2009 04:02:28
Scrap Trident! Keep the Band!
4

donald,

glasgow 19/06/2009 04:10:27
The British Government once banned Pipes, Tartans and Kilts, except when in service to the British Army. The least they could do would be to subsidise the Police Pipe Band, which represents Scotland around the globe, while their MPs represent Westminster in Scotland.

Strathclyde Police Pipe Band represent mote value for money than the anti Scottish Dover House in London England. Time Ben Dover Hoose was scrapped along with Trident and Labour money wasters.
5

fife runner,

19/06/2009 07:11:33
as a former Strathclyde Officer I agree the band is unaffordable. The members work 9-5 then are off all over the world leaving the force short. It is a sizeable band and when one considers that in my time due to leave court attendance etc, on one night in Glasgow city centre only two officers where on duty one night, even one man would have made a diference.

This is reality and no emotional blackmail will allay the fact more manpower on the streets is needed.
6

fife runner,

19/06/2009 07:12:30
I may add the majority of time they are practising is during working time not their own.
7

Grumpy,

19/06/2009 07:52:25
(5) It costs money to employ all out civil servants and MSP many of whom do not add any value to Scotland. The same cannot be said of the Pipe Band. I've seen and heard them play - and they are a credit to Scotland and draw in money paying crowds (e.g. Edinburgh Tattoo). What should happen here is central funding to ensure the Pipe Band survives, but also funding additional officers to be recruited to fill the gaps.
8

Navvy,

19/06/2009 08:22:18
if the people of Strathclyde were better behaved there would be no need for additional police on the beat
9

Bejjy,

Europe 19/06/2009 08:40:40
How does having a Police Pipe Band solve crime or catch criminals? Get rid of it and use the money saved on much needed front line services.
10

ianpg,

Musselburgh 19/06/2009 09:01:36
Seems weird to me. More police officers, more money, better technology but the police service we get nowadays is lamentably worse than it was 20 years ago. So much so that they can't afford to run a pipe band. Bizarre!!
11

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 19/06/2009 09:03:00
I suppose if they were that into the pipeband, really believed in it, they would do it volountarily anyway and if they wished to get around a bit, they would do a bit of fund raising themselves.......
12

cockatiel,

minto 19/06/2009 09:06:56
#10 get lost
# 9 numpty
# 8 well said
# 7 more the pity
# 6 & 5 talking utter garbage
# 4 well put
# 3-2-1 anything they can do to underline the scots,,we do not need palace guards any more horse parades and fancy guards bands with fancy tunics . is the disbandment of the police band an excuse to put more money to them,.they have destroyed our regiments en mass but not there own to the same extent. keep the pipe and drums , 5/6,9.10 go bury yer heads, preferably in a tub o concrete
13

Daft Old Git,

19/06/2009 09:42:23
Could also save a lot of money by scrapping the mounted branch. Nostalgic rubbish. Could have 3 cops for the price of a non productive horse and jockey. What is their solve rate?
14

Willie Mor,

19/06/2009 10:05:17
A fine band and a credit to the Police, the community, and Scotland.

You couldn't buy the prestige that this band has given Scotland around the world.

What absolute tosh that Strathclyde Police cannot and should not fund this pipe band.
15

Team USA,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 10:56:05
While Mr Pollock's valiance in throwing himself on the preverbial hand grenade to protect Chief Constable House by telling the world what he really thinks is admirable, but misplaced.

This article is full of smoke and mirrors from Chief Superintendent Pollock intended to make the chief constable look good and having the moral high ground at a time when the demise of the pipe band is imminent due to reasons of mismanagement and abuse by the Force, not finance.

Mr Pollock’s portrayal of the pipe band is contrived, devoid of fact and intentionally misleading in order to soften the blow of the band disappearing. As the head of Strathclyde Police’s Professional Standards Unit, Mr Pollock’s sudden involvement in this issue at a time when the force is stonewalling complaints from members of the public and in the middle of handling unresolved grievances from officers in relation to the future of the pipe band is dubiously timed and should be of grave public concern. He has discredited his position as independent and impartial.

Strathclyde Police Pipe Band does not cost the Force and the tax payer hundreds of thousands of pounds. The band has over 40 members, only 15 of whom are serving police officers. The majority of the band already practices in its own time. In terms of the police officers’ involvement, their actual time spent on band duties is around 15% compared to the remainder being spent on operations. You look up salaries and work out the arithmetic, I make it around £600,000. 15% of £600,000 on salaries is £90,000 – the true cost to the Force for the pipe band. That barely covers the cost of hiring, training and paying two constables for one year.

Pollock’s statement “For the sum of money spent on the band we would have a number of additional officers on the street and a number of different supervisors making sure officers are doing what they are asked to do” beggars belief. He has led readers to believe that the pipe band contributes nothing more tha
16

Team USA,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 10:59:07
Pollock’s statement “For the sum of money spent on the band we would have a number of additional officers on the street and a number of different supervisors making sure officers are doing what they are asked to do” beggars belief. He has led readers to believe that the pipe band contributes nothing more than musical duties. What an absolutely demoralising and undervaluing statement for the officers of the pipe band who contribute significantly towards tackling serious and organised crime in Glasgow City Centre to read.

The band self-generates tens of thousands of pounds every year in prize money and appearance fees which help pay for equipment, uniform and travel. The band has endorsements from McCallum Bagpipes and Pearl Drums which save the Force tens of thousands of pounds.

I don't know where Mr Pollock got his information, but he is so off the mark and and has further demonstrated the contempt and lack of understanding held towards the pipe band from the incumbent hierarchy of Strathclyde Police.

The reality is that Strathclyde Police Pipe Band is not wanted by Mr House, who does not have the bottle to tell the world what he really thinks and has directed a patsy (Pollock) to do his dirty work for him.
17

David Ban,

04620 Vera 19/06/2009 12:05:38
What "Nation" cannot afford it? England? Scotland? A band like that must have the potential to generate thousands of pounds! Get a business man in to run it with a dedicated PR company.

If you want more efficient policing and value for money scrap the bureaucracy that throttles the police force.

18

Kenny A,

19/06/2009 12:20:08
It is a long time since I held respect for the police, even ex officers are not happy, to bin a ban like this takes some nerve, what will be left to respect. We have lost our military regiments, our heavy industry and now this. One of the finest bands the world has heard. India, Nepal, Taiwan and even Japan are putting money into their bands and countries in Africa, South America, the Pacific and lets not forget the USA and Canada are spending fortunes on the instrument

Cra345678p

A sad day indeed.
19

CRAGman,

19/06/2009 12:36:48
Scrapping the band is crazy! Sell all the homes, cars, etc. owned by drug dealers and let that fund the band.
20

Richard Lionheart,

19/06/2009 13:15:05
Just a thought:-

If it were the Gay Strathclyde Police Pipe Band there would there be any question over it receiving funding?
21

Itsanobrainer-Vote SNP,

19/06/2009 13:41:26
Typical, stamp on anything Scottish people are proud of

Off topic this but as many people as possible must see this. Newsnight Scotland last night, Eric Joyce this is hilarious and a must see. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm20dU5O9MU
22

morris,

edinburgh 19/06/2009 13:45:09
I would have thought that all bands were able to charge fees for appearances and be self financing. I cannot see why a pipe band cannot do this also? I had always imagined that they did anwyay.Of course sponsporship could also be sought . I know that British Gas Scotland sponsored a pipe band who wore their own registered "Murdoch" tartan [William Murdoch being the Scotsman (born near Cumnock)who first produced coal gas and later gas lighting]
There was previously no official Murdoch clan tartan IE,since they are deemed to be a "sept"of Macdonald or Macpherson.

I would not like to see the closure of this band (or any for that matter) since they are apprarently considered to be an excellent unit.
They certainly should not disband !Maybe a few recordings might help sustain their income? IM sure that somwehere within the combined brains of Strathclydes Police Pipe Band lies a solution.
Any suggestion is worth consideration. People often hire pipers for weddings .Whats wrong with hiring a Strathclyde Police piper I ask? They are a ready made agency for this .I can almost see Pipers R Us in Yellow pages now!How do the other Pipe Bands survive ?
They surely earn their fees from engagements No?

Tourists pay pipers in Edinburgh so Im sure Glasgow can do this just as well as Embra can,probably better !
It would be funny if they were arrested though .
It brings back happy memories of a certain hotel I inhabited in Edinburgh which never had any trouble (apart from one occasion when a POlice pipe band member had a disagreement with a CID officer over the affections of certain dishy young WPC) Who said the Police are not normal ? Of course they are.
23

Sir Beef Richards,

Slumped 19/06/2009 14:24:22
Shame Shame Shame Shame Shame . We cannot afford to be without the assets to our culture that bands as good as this one bring . The only thing arrested in this senior police officers career is more than likely to be his development
24

Rumour6,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 14:27:31
Any other country in the world would be pulling out all the stops to promote such a world renowned Band, if only they had the opprotunity, and here we are, especially in a Year of Homecoming, taking something we should all be proud to have as part of our heritage and binning it to save a few pounds... IT'S DISGRACEFUL. Save the money sack some managers...
25

Porry,

19/06/2009 16:09:49
It seems that with certain people, not just in Scotland but in all of Britain, heritage has become a politically incorrect term and hence does not count anything anymore. City centre boredom - the likes of McDonald's, Lidel's, C&A's everywhere in Europe and beyond - isn't enough. Let's scrap regional cultures as well and let legal and illegal immigrants fill the vacuum for the sake of cultural globalism.
26

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 20:06:36
Some things cannot be counted nor valued with money.

There is a criminal waste of taxpayers money everywhere in government and in the Police too - sack a few numties with pretend jobs who don't do anything and gie the money to the band!

There was a day when being a 'patriot' was a good thing now all those in favour of Europe and the globalisation of the world see patriotism as a huge 'barrier' to their plans. It makes me slightly sick to think that even the SNP are not offering 'independence' merely slavery to Europe instead of Westminster.

There is a North American death called 'death by a thousand cuts'. Each cut is insignificant by itself but the sum of all the cuts is the point .... 1 Police band, yeah, no bother - let go .... you may say .... but where, ask yourself, will you draw the line?


27

Joe Plaice,

the Nutmeg of Consolation 23/06/2009 16:09:07
Don't worry everyone, ev erything will be fine. The top brass have been on a Common Purpose training course or two, (at enormous expense to the tax payers), and they are doing this for your own good. Dumping all this cultural rubbish cleans the slate so we can have a new EU state with no cultural differences and big brother will provide all your needs.
See the video here to see what I mean:
http://cpexposed.com/archive/videos.php?video=common_purpose_update
28

Joe Plaice,

the Nutmeg of Consolation 23/06/2009 16:11:14
#27 Voldemort, agree with you 100% Classic guerrilla tactics, picking bits off piece meal until the structure collapses. Very Common Purpose.
29

Brianwci,

21/07/2009 00:27:08
Ask Shell or BP to fund the Band. They are making a fortune out of Scotland which gets very little in return.

 

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