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Will Irish 'ayes' be smiling soon?

Republic is told nation will suffer if it rejects the Lisbon treaty in this week's referendum, but such an outcome could have serious implications for the EU

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Published Date: 10 June 2008
The EU's Bernard Kouchner has stepped into the debate
WARNING that the Irish would be the "first victims" if they reject the EU constitutional treaty in a referendum this Thursday, Bernard Kouchner, France's foreign minister, yesterday made the highest-profile intervention by a major European player i
n the country's fierce debate.

Speaking on RTL radio, Mr Kouchner said the Irish "have benefited more than others" from the EU's integration and would "be punishing themselves" if they vote No in the referendum.

He said that such an outcome would be met with "gigantic incomprehension" in the rest of Europe.

This week, it will be up to 2.8 million Irish voters to determine whether the EU's nearly 500 million citizens should be governed by the treaty, which was painstakingly crafted to replace a draft constitution that was rejected by French and Dutch voters in 2005.

If the treaty clears the Irish hurdle, supporters are optimistic it could be ratified this year throughout the 27-nation bloc because no other member state is putting it to a referendum.

Three opinion polls over the past week have left the result too close to call, putting pro-treaty voters anywhere from seven percentage points ahead to five points behind.

"I believe this treaty will be passed. I believe in the discernment and the common sense of the Irish people," said Brian Cowen, the prime minister, who has toured the country over the past month warning of the damage that a treaty rejection would do to Ireland and the EU.

Most of the Irish establishment – the government and opposition parties, employers, major newspapers and the Irish Congress of Trade Unions – back the treaty as the best possible deal for Ireland. They argue that an Irish No would undermine the nation's diplomatic clout and its attractiveness as a base for foreign companies – the secret of its economic success.

But grass-roots Ireland, despite profiting handsomely from 35 years of EU membership, has never sounded so Euro-sceptical as now.

That's because Ireland's Celtic Tiger economy, which roared to life in the mid-1990s and has pretty much been booming ever since, is suddenly looking deeply vulnerable as households battle rising prices and debts.

Government spending has fallen hard into the red, the global credit crunch has hammered a long-soaring property market, and unemployment is on the rise.

The Tiger attracted 200,000 eastern European immigrants who poured into Ireland when the bloc nearly doubled in size in 2004 – and now there are complaints that there aren't enough jobs to go around.

Unlike most European Union members, Ireland promoted an open-door policy for EU job-seekers.

Today, one out of every six jobs is held by a foreigner, including 90 per cent of the past year's newly created jobs, a government report found this month. EU critics claim the Lisbon treaty will accelerate the import of lower-salaried workers and export of jobs eastward.

Experts say that in the current climate it's easy to forget how much the EU has brought to Ireland.

"The future of the EU could hang on whether prosperous middle Ireland, whose very existence is considered one of the triumphs of European integration, will care enough on the day to turn up," said Hugo Brady, an analyst at the Centre for European Reform.

Irish referendum laws require both sides to enjoy equal media time and state funding. This has helped propel unknowns from the political fringes into the mainstream.

Dublin humorist Brendan O'Connor mocked the anti-EU lobby as "a motley crew of crusties from the far left, mysterious and downright mad people from the far right, and former terrorists and their colleagues."

Nonetheless, these ill-documented fringe groups and nationalists like Sinn Fein, have kept the Yes campaign on the defensive.

They have plastered Ireland with posters warning that the treaty will force Ireland to surrender its sovereignty on moral, military and financial matters.

One conjures up the memory of Ireland's patriot dead from the 1919-21 war of independence from Britain. "They died for your freedom. Don't throw it all away. Vote no," it reads.

An arch-conservative Catholic group called Coir – "Justice" in the native Gaelic – warns darkly that the treaty could force Ireland to legalise abortion, euthanasia, prostitution and hard drugs.

Micheal Martin, the foreign minister, after debating with a Coir activist live on national radio, sounded exasperated. "It's hard to believe that anyone in their right might could believe such ridiculous nonsense," he said.

The government has struggled, however, to rebut widespread predictions that the EU will ambush Ireland with post-referendum demands to raise its corporate tax rate, even though the treaty does not alter the rule that all member nations must agree unanimously on EU-wide tax laws.

Ireland's rate is among the lowest in Europe and a major reason why more than 600 US companies have chosen Ireland over other potential European bases. EU heavyweights France and Germany have repeatedly complained it is unfair and against the spirit of the common euro currency.

"The hour after Lisbon is passed, the 12.5 per cent tax rate will be in peril," predicted Shane Ross, an Irish senator and business commentator.

BACKGROUND

THE Treaty of Lisbon would reshape EU institutions, create potentially powerful new roles for an EU president and foreign policy chief, and streamline the way the bloc takes decisions by reducing national veto powers.

Essentially it would resurrect most reforms proposed in the failed EU constitution, which was rejected in referendums by France and the Netherlands in 2005.

The treaty would trim the European Commission from 27 to 18 members; increase decision-making based on majority rather than unanimous votes among nations; and boost the policy-making powers, but at the same time prune the membership of the 785-seat European Parliament.

So far, 15 countries have ratified the treaty which would come into force in 2009.







The full article contains 990 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 June 2008 10:11 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: European Union
 
1

Guga II,

Rockall 10/06/2008 01:19:59
If this Kouchner character had any concept of what democracy was, he'd be calling on all the EU countries to follow Ireland's example, and have a referendum on this treaty - just like we, in the YUK, were promised by that liar and charlatan Maggie Broon.

2

Scullion,

Canada 10/06/2008 01:58:50
Hard to place that on Thatcher. Once of the reasons she was persona non grata in the Conservative party in 1990 was her intransigent aversion to closer ties with Europe.
3

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 10/06/2008 06:49:10
Wish that we in SCOTLAND could have a say in this matter. INDEPENDENCE CANNOT COME QUICK ENOUGH!!!!
4

Scott_B,

10/06/2008 07:44:09
Benefiting from being a part of the EU has NOTHING to do with signing this constitution in disguise. Kouchner has no shame.

As No.1 aid, what he should be doing if he believes in democracy is congratulating the Irish and lobbing other countries to follow their lead and have a referendum. What in fact he believes in is more unelected and unaccountable power and money for himself and his cronies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLo8EYkfmuU
5

thinking,

Scotland 10/06/2008 08:33:26
#3
Why so keen to be ruled by corrupt EU?
The SNP want to be in Europe and will lose any freedoms they already have as Europe will decide everything.
What price independence then??!!
6

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 10/06/2008 08:34:21
Let's hope the Irish make a last-stand for democracy. Look what government from Brussels has done for the UK in the last 30 years:

1. Allowed the Spanish, French, Dutch and others to successively destroy every fish-stock in Scotland's waters@ herring, mackerel, sprats, cod and haddock. all that is left now are 'bottom crawlers' - prawns and crabs.

2. Flooded the UK with 'asylum seekers' and human rights victims - from Somalia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Darfur - followed by a million Poles, Ukrainians and Armenians. Thanks to the EU we now have child slavery and sex slavery in every major city.

3.90% of our laws are now made by unelected 'commissioners' in Brussels; people like Peter Mandelson, Neil Kinnock - utterly disgraced politicians in their own countries - now dictate the law to the UK Parliament. You did not elect them and you have no power to sack them.

The EU auditors have refused to sign-off the accounts for more than 15 years now - and the levels of bribery and corruption of MEPs are staggering. Don't forget that the 18% VAT tax that you pay on everything you buy goes entirely to fund the EU's corruption.

Get out now. Take back our waters. Take back our right to make our own laws, elect or sack our own governments; control our own borders; decide who has the right to come here and who doesn't.
7

Covert Action,

10/06/2008 08:42:21
Nicely put, Tweedmouth.

I for one will be toasting the Irish with a pint of Guinness if they vote No on Thursday against a "motley" crew of former communists (maoists in the case of Jose Manuel Barroso, believe it or not) who have effortlessly slipped off their overalls and donned the expense-account apparel of the Brussels gravy train.
8

Unimpressed one,

10/06/2008 08:46:38
But it's all academic surely. No matter what the Irish vote, the EU will get its way. The EU never was democratic, that was the first myth that the people of Europe fell for. The European 'project' is an experiment in social control, masquerading as a free trade organisation.
9

Alberto.,

10/06/2008 08:52:18
If the Irish don't say 'No! No! No! No! - a million times if necessary - then like the 'crazy gang' we have 'allegedly' running our once fine Country, the Irish also will become lifelong members of the EU 'YES!' men / women society, like it or not, and I don't think they will!

Once in, it seems quite clear the EU word will be Law, no options, simply a case of 'Do as you're told, when you're told and how you're told, and get on with it!'

Criticism will become a Criminal offence - think 1939 and all that, when a 'very damaging and bloody War' was fought to save our Countries, and now, by a simple non-contested system of a knock on the door, we seem to be letting the 'Euro-ites' enter, and demanding control of the household keys - forever and always!

Seemingly contrary to general belief - it appears that somewhere -‘Hitler’ is not quite as dead as we thought!

BEWARE - they will keep trying!
10

Zilperhonka,

10/06/2008 08:53:09
If Kouchner feels so strongly about Lisbon that is a good reason to vote no. He strikes me as a right wing nut, a year or so ago he said that he was itching to attack Iran, these are the kind of Bush wannabees who will be in charge of the European superstate if a YES vote is registered.
11

Honest Opinion 2,

Clamecy 10/06/2008 08:53:27
Quite right No 6
What Kouchner has never learned is that IF YOU PUSH A CELT IN ANY DIRECTION HE IS MORE THAN LIKELY TO GO THE OPPOSITE WAY. OUR iRISH FRIENDS WILL BEAR THIS OLD ADAGE OUT I'M SURE. Referendums all round - I heartily agree - constitution being smuggled in under the guise of a so-called treaty fools no-one. Freedom's were fought for over the centuries and must still be defended vigourously by the people. But, where's the opportunity to be heard? Where's the Nu=Labour undertaking gone - swept under the table by Toothy Tony,Bruiser Broon and that Manipulator Mandelson? KIck this into touch Ireland - others will take note and encouragement if you do so.
12

Vic Burns,

Temple Bar 10/06/2008 09:47:05
Feck me, with all these right wing - "blame the jonny foreigners" around, it may push me for a yes X tomorrow.
13

Deadpan,

London 10/06/2008 10:04:09
#12 Quite right.

What a scary list of posts. You'd think the EU was the 4th Reich the way this lot are banging on. It is by no means perfect but if you want to consider the 50 years prior to the creation of the ECSC (fore-runner to the EEC and now EU) compared with the 50 years since you may see one or two subtle differences.
14

Highland Mighty,

10/06/2008 10:15:49
3. The SNP are pro-EU (which controls 80% of legislation) and pro-Euro (which 100% of monetary policy).

A very strange concept of 'independence' if you ask me!
15

Highland Mighty,

10/06/2008 10:17:18
11. 'Celts'?!

What century are you writing from?!

Go and walk around 21st Century Scotland and see how many true Celts you can spot now.
16

Alan B,

10/06/2008 10:19:10
#Highland Mighty

So u are saying do not vote snp as they want to be members of the EU, but we should remain part of the the failing uk union which is also part of the EU. Logic is never ur strong point.

17

Alan B,

10/06/2008 10:26:44
#Highland Mighty

As for monetary policy, scotland has 3 options.

1)scottish currency
2)sterling
3)euro


Scottish currency would give us the best monetary policy as it would be tailored to fit scotlands economy, however it would expose those trading with currency fluxations against both the english and the european market.

Sterling has been very damaging to the scottish economy as interest rates are generally set too high for the scottish economy. There has been not political will to address the north south divide by the main unionist parties as they seek middle england votes for election.

Sterling is by far the worst of the economic options open to scotland. As the bank of england Eddie George said unemployment in the north of britain was a price worth paying to keep inflation in the south under control.

The euro. This is problably the best option for scotland. The euro has lower interest rates than sterling and much more suited to scotland economic climate over a long period of time. It would also remove the exposure to exchange rate fluxation to the main european market.

Both labour (McConnell) and the lib dems support the euro in scotland but are not willing to put scotlands economic interests above their support for the union. As such scotland suffers with a poorer economy that we would otherwise have.
18

Alan B,

10/06/2008 10:30:13
#Vic Burns

While i completely agree with ur sentinments i do not agree that is somehow right wing.

Job protectionism is a left wing thing. Free trade and people is rightish.

Those of left wing dispositions in the uk are anti eu.
The labour party when much further to the left was anti eec, it is only as it has moved to the right that it has become more pro eu. (funnily enough at the time the tories who were pro eu have moved in the other direction).

19

Alan B,

10/06/2008 10:35:17
#Tweedmouth

Pity most of ur examples are rubbish.

1) the problem with fisheries is that westminster sold out scottish fishereries as a bargaining chip. so the blame is westminsters not the eu.

2)the eu has freedom of movement of people within the eu not outside. immigration right or wrong is to do with the british government and it is simply pathetic to try to blame the eu for something.

As for polish immigration. Are u that ignorant. The uk (and ireland) were the only governments not to impose restrictions on eastern european migration. So do not blame the eu for a british government decision. Personally i have not problem with polish migration. I like the freedoms that free movement of people within the eu gives us.
20

Alan B,

10/06/2008 10:50:00
#thinking

That makes little sense. UK is member of the eu so how is scottish independence in the eu going to be different. For ur argument to make any sense the uk would have to withdraw from the eu.

The point raised by the poster was why should we give away our sovereignty to the uk. The uk at the end of the day is far more damaging to scotland that the eu. An independent scotland within the eu would actually be positive for scotland although with any club their are sovereignty implications just as their are for the uk being a member.
21

Chris Bovey,

Totnes, UK 10/06/2008 11:37:35
How ridiculous for Bernard Kouchner to claim that a No vote in Ireland would be a "gigantic incomprehension" in the rest of Europe.

Mr Kouchner knows full well that such an outcome would be rejoiced by the vast majority of Europeans who do not want to see democracy abolished, which is precisely why referenda on this awful treaty has been denied in every other country of Europe.
22

Neil,

Glasgow 10/06/2008 12:16:13
Mr Kouchner made his name as a supporter of the Bosnian Moslem President (formerly an SS auxiliary & publicly committed to the genocide of non-Moslems there though our media kept silent about that). He went on to support the even more genocidal drug dealers, brothel owners & organleggers of the KLA.

By any rule of law he is a Nazi supporting bullying war criminal & one can see why he is so well adapted to being among the "great & good" of the EU.

I trust the Irish people will take his words & their source, to heart.
23

Alan B,

10/06/2008 12:42:19
#Chris Bovey

while i agree Kouchner comment about a "gigantic incomprehension" in the rest of Europe is silly, i would say ur statement could be said to be equally so.

" outcome would be rejoiced by the vast majority of Europeans " what evidence do u have of that. i would say a majority in the uk would agree with u but that is not the vast majority of europeans.

For one thing opinion polls in ireland from what the scotsman has reported show a small majority in favour.

Part of the problem is that we cannot get any proper debate. The antis come away with silly thing like "warns darkly that the treaty could force Ireland to legalise abortion, euthanasia, prostitution and hard drugs." and similarly u talk about abolishing democracy.

While the pro treaty side have not justified why this treaty is necessary in their eyes.
24

Alan B,

10/06/2008 12:44:17
#Neil

"he is so well adapted to being among the "great & good" of the EU"

if u read the article Bernard Kouchner, France's foreign minister and not an eu representative.
25

,

10/06/2008 12:49:55
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26

Alan B,

10/06/2008 12:52:53
#Neil

One about the great things about the internet is u can google and find out the truth when people post accusations. Far from being the nazi u accuse Kouchner of being he was the Special Representative of the UN Secretary General in Kosovo.

It is good to expose the lies. There are arguments against the eu but when it attracts crackpot supporters proper arguments against the eu and this treaty cannot be made.
27

Alan B,

10/06/2008 12:54:03
#Bilderberg 2008

It is funny if the people in ireland chose to vote for the treaty they are being tricked rather than the fact they simply disagree with u.
28

,

10/06/2008 12:58:54
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29

Alan B,

10/06/2008 13:01:42
#Bilderberg 2008

38. Pity u cannot make a coherent argument yourself.

Learning to think for yourself is not to just agree with you.

Your argument is if the irish do not agree with you then they have been tricked rather than they simply disagree with you.
30

Alan B,

10/06/2008 13:04:07
#Bilderberg 2008

Which argument have i made that does not make sense exactly. For a start i have not made any argument for the EU, simply pointed out the factual errors or very subjective views posted as fact by others.
31

,

10/06/2008 13:25:46
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32

Neil,

Glasgow 10/06/2008 13:39:56
Alan if you read what I wrote you will see thatI did not say he was a formal member of the EU commission but that he moved in the circles such power inhabits - which is obviously true.

If you really believe that being employed by the UN means you cannot be associated with Nazis you may be to young to have ever heard of Kurt Waldheim.

The fact, which you do not dispute, is that he was a firm supporter of Nazis publicly commited to genocide which, in my book makes him one. It IS what you do not who you know that matters.
33

,

10/06/2008 14:01:19
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34

Alan B,

10/06/2008 14:10:32
#Bilderberg 2008

I see you still cannot put a coherent argument together.
35

Alan B,

10/06/2008 14:27:06
#Neil

You said "great & good" of the EU" which implies that his is an EU representative.


"is that he was a firm supporter of Nazis publicly commited to genocide"
Kouchner from what i can see was born in 1939 so abit young to be a nazi.

What u mean is given the mess of Yugoslavia you do not agree with his position.

If u look at what the EU did. Firstly they stupidly tried to keep Yugoslavia together. Their peace keeping mission was lead by our own eu sceptic David Owen. The plan was a mess as the division were too deep.

Germany broke ranks and declare independence to Croatia. Other countries then followed suit. Meaning that Bosnia and Croatia became independent.

There were problems from both sides but the overarching difficulties were caused by the Serbs who dominated Yugoslavia. Like any crumbling empire those in power did not like it.

Lets face it you may disagree with how it was handled. Would have done things differently. Personally I believe in a countries right to self determination. Kouchner played a senior role in the UN in trying to sort out the mess.

Also remember the mess was created long before. And was not exactly helped by the soviet union and the artificial creation of an artificial country called Yugoslavia. How that makes Kouchner a nazi. More like a diplomatic in a very difficult situation without military power to enforse anything.
36

Alan B,

10/06/2008 14:40:10
#Neil

Take ur point regarding Kurt Waldheim. (Yes he was abit before my time as i was only a child in the 70s.)
37

Neil,

Glasgow 10/06/2008 15:29:17
Alan the Yugoslav wars were not quite as the western media painted them. I have been on this before but may I suggest you read

http://www.emperors-clothes.com/articles/carr/carr.html

which says rather more about who & why.

Izetbegovic, the Bosnian Moslem leader, Tudjman the Croatian leader & several of the KLA were indeed Nazis who had served Hitler & all were publicly committed to genocide. At Germany's behest the EU did, knowingly, support the Nazis. The only way the Serbs "caused problems" was in resisting the genocide & attempting to retain their homes.

This is what the "great & good" of the EU do & we should be rid of the acum. The fact that EU bureaucarcy means these countries are so economicaly underperforming is an added reason.
38

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

10/06/2008 15:58:26
37 etc

Neil - The War is over man, let it go! Who was and who wasn't a Nazi is now academic, of those who are left I would imagine most will die soon from old age. Then what are you and the Je . . . sorry, Israelis . . . going to point the finger at?

Oh yes, the Arabs!

Is Mugabe a 'filthy colonialist' cos he oppresses Black People? No, he's just a despot.

Same as in Bosnia!
39

Chris Bovey,

Totnes, UK 10/06/2008 16:18:24
# AlanB

I base my evidence that the majority of Europeans would rejoice at a No vote in Ireland by the fact that it previously did not pass referenda in both Holland and France. I also assume that the majority of Europeans do not want to abolish democracy in favour of unelected officials making decisions that effect their lives, which is what the Lisbon Treaty effectively does and is why nearly all the peoples of Europe have been denied a referendum on this issue. The German Government (like the British) also refused to put this to a referendum, coz they knew it did not stand a cat in hells chance of being passed.

We shall wait and see how the Irish vote, but the polls show it's too close to call, and I have faith in the Irish to do the right thing and reject this terrible treaty on behalf of the rest of us who have been denied the democratic process.
40

,

10/06/2008 16:36:22
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,

10/06/2008 16:37:23
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42

Neil,

Glasgow 10/06/2008 17:52:25
To be fair bribing us with our own money is what almost every political party does at every election too. Read any election leaflet.
43

Terrier2,

10/06/2008 18:11:19
How the Irish vote is an irrelevance - MEPs have already voted to ignore the result, and the EU either will force them to vote again and again until they vote yes, or will repackage the whole thing under a new name as they did in 2005, and this time ensures no nation holds a referendum.

There are too many people in high places in Brussels and elsewhere with vested interests in creating an EUSSR, to allow the wishes of the people to get in the way. Letting Ireland opt out is not an option for them - it will only encourage other countries to seek more opt outs, especially the net contributing Scandinavians and the UK.

However for me the whole treaty will have no moral legitimacy until the people of every nation in the EU have had their say.

44

,

10/06/2008 19:49:38
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,

10/06/2008 20:20:11
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46

Reader11722,

NY, NY 10/06/2008 21:20:46
May God give Ireland the whiskey and strength to stop these zionist globalists. Only Israel benefits from these endless Middle East wars. Iraq is the beginning. As we commit war-crimes in Baghdad, the US gov't commits treason at home by opening mail, eliminating habeas corpus, using the judiciary to steal private lands, banning books like "America Deceived" from Amazon and Wikipedia, conducting warrantless wiretaps and engaging in illegal wars on behalf of AIPAC's 'money-men'. Soon, another US false-flag operation will occur (sinking of an Aircraft Carrier by Mossad) and the US will invade Iran.. Then we'll invade Syria, then Saudi Arabia, then Lebanon (again) then ....
Final link (before Google Books bends to gov't demands and censors the title):
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0
47

57Nomad,

california 11/06/2008 00:20:34
#46 Reader

I'm somewhat puzzled by your post. Is the EU a zionist globalist plot? Israel isn't a member of the EU is it?
Is there some connection between the Irish vote and 'endless mideast wars'? The last time habeus corpus was sidelined was in the Civil War, but that was a long time ago and it's difficult to see the connection with the current situation. The US government did not and cannot ban books. I just checked on Amazon and they are selling it there. One reason it isn't moving very fast is that it costs a couple hundred dollars. Plus, it is a work of fiction. And while the Mossad is a formidable intelligence agency sinking an aircraft carrier is well beyond their reach. It's beyond anyones reach for that matter.

It seems to me the issue here is the will of the Irish people. They will vote and the winner will carry the day, yes or no. As an American and a person with only a cursory knowledge of the issue, the EU 'treaty' or constitution seems to be a giant step backward in to the days of monarchy. Why any Irish or British person would even dream of being ruled by non-elected people is beyond comprehension. It could be that I just don't have all the facts. I do know that if a similar proposition was placed before the US population it would be laughed off the ballot. Free men placing themselves in thrall to unelected foreign bureaucrats seems inconceivable. It's none of my business but if someone asked me I say I hope the Irish vote to opt out.
48

C Carter,

London 11/06/2008 06:52:20
Millions of Europeans are holding their breath in hopes of a NO vote from Ireland

Having lived in serfdom and fear under the British for so long why on earth should the people of Ireland vote to revert back to a way of life where the ordinary folk have no say and are once ruled again by an unelected tyrannical oligarchy.

The following quote from the elitist d'Estaing during June 07 says it all really

"Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly" ... "All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way."


If that is not enough to reason for a NO vote then maybe the fact that the DEATH PENALTY comes along on the back of this diabolical treaty would be if it was generally known, however, this rider is one the Irish politicians have forgotten to mention along with many other insidious policies.

The DEATH PENALTY rider is not for murderers or pedophiles but us everyday folk if we ever have the audacity to riot against their elitist corrupt policies (no matter how unfair or unjust) they can shoot us dead there and then or string us up after a trial without jury. Does this sound familiar people of Ireland?

There are no other Europeans that have suffered so much under tyranny as the people of Ireland; I do not believe they will willingly place themselves back in a position of servitude that many whom are still living remember today.




49

cure cancer- kill a communist,

EUSSR 11/06/2008 06:59:12
"The United States of Europe" is the next stage in our revolutionary perspective... Should the "Government of Workers and Peasants" triumph on the European mainland before British imperialism is overthrown which is quite probable, then the European Federation... will of necessity be directed against British capitalism. And, naturally, the moment British capitalism is overthrown the British Isles will enter as a welcome member into the European Federation." (Leon Trotsky)

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear." (Marcus Tullius Cicero)
50

,

11/06/2008 10:40:35
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51

Irish to save the world again?,

USA 11/06/2008 13:30:45
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/new_world_order/news.php?q=1213065478

How the Irish Saved Civilization is the title of a book by best-selling author and historian Thomas Cahill.

The title to next Thursday's Irish vote on the European Union (EU) might just as well as be, "Irish to save the world again?"

On June 12, 2008, the question that everyone, not just the Irish, should be asking is this: "Will the Irish save Europe from itself?" And possibly save the world from the silent bulldozer of the New World Order?

Of the current 27-member nations that comprise the EU, Ireland is the only country whose citizens will get a chance to put democracy to work when they vote on whether Ireland will ratify the Treaty of Lisbon or not--the only national vote throughout all the EU nations will determine the fate of the rest of the 26 EU members.

How did this come about? Dutch and French voters rejected the EU Constitution in 2005 and as a result, the EU was left in limbo politically. So what did the EU leaders do to make democracy work better the next time?

They decided to take away further voting by their respective citizens and instead make any vote on the collective future of the EU the responsibility of the politicians in each member nation, i.e., voting will only be done by their parliaments. The only slight problem is that the Irish Constitution demands a referendum on such mighty and “Irish Constitutional changing” issues such as the Treaty of Lisbon.

The Irish Supreme Court has previously ruled that any fundamental changes to EU Treaties that would change the Irish Constitution's recognition of sovereignty (as being ultimately derived from the Irish people) would require an amendment to the Irish Constitution. Needless to say, Ireland's Constitution can only be amended by a referendum or popular vote of the Irish people.

The significance of this particular Irish vote is that Ireland, by voting “No” on June 12 will effectively
52

C Carter,

London 11/06/2008 14:44:39


Posted by Nicolas Godard at 11 June 2008, 12:20 CET
Bonjour à tous,
Hi everybody,

I am French and you, Irish people, are our only hope.
Please, keep in mind that :
- there was a referendum in France in May 2005 : the answer was a strong "NO"
- there were some respectable French politicians – I mean republican guys, from left to right - who were against the European constitution AS IT WAS PROPOSED
– all the other professional politicians said so many lies after the vote – I guess to preserve their comfortable positions:
"people wanted to punish the government national policy instead of voting for the future of Europe" FALSE
"people who voted "no" were mainly unemployed or unqualified people" FALSE and scandalous : I am a researcher in the Biotech industry, a friend of mine is a clinical project manager for a big pharma, my brother in law is a radiologist… All of them voted "no". And what is the point : do these politician mean that only qualified and employed people are clever enough to vote ? …Personally, I have never voted with such a strong conviction
"people who voted "no" haven't red the project" FALSE I red it and that is why I was convinced
"people who voted "no" are anti-european or xenophobe " FALSE and once more, scandalous : My wife is Italian, half of my family is German, my sister in law is Portuguese, one of my best friends is Irish

Whatever, the result is that we, French people, have been betrayed (to not say worse). The Lisbon Treaty was signed despite the French opinion. So, please, help us : vote "No"

53

Chris Bovey,

Totnes, UK 12/06/2008 12:18:32
#52 C Carter

Excellent post. Yes it is in the Interest of all true Europeans to sink this vile treaty and I am optimistic that our friends in Ireland will do the right thing and reject this treaty, which is exactly what would happen if it were to be put to a vote in France or the UK.

Us genuine pro-European have no problem with a free trading block of countries and working together where it makes sense for countries to work together, but we do not want to see the countries of Europe turned into undemocratic dictatorships. All ready, the EU is trying to ban alternative medicines, vitamins and health supplements, as they are out to protect the interests of big pharmaceutical companies. Enough is enough, the people of Europe do not want bad laws and restrictions on on their freedoms imposed on them by unelected bureaucrats of the EU.

 

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