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Published Date: 17 October 2008
THE Defence Secretary placed himself on a collision course with the Scottish Government yesterday when he branded SNP plans to scrap the nuclear deterrent as "incredible folly" and "national vandalism".
During a visit to Faslane naval base on the Clyde, John Hutton also reinforced the government's pledge to keep nuclear weapons in Scotland.

The move is a direct challenge to the Scottish Government's efforts to have the weapons removed from Sco
tland.

Mr Hutton said Faslane was a "vital part of our country's defence" as home to Britain's nuclear deterrent, and warned any decision by the SNP to scrap Trident and its replacement would be an "incredible folly" and an act of "national vandalism".

His comments drew criticism from the SNP's Bruce Crawford, minister for parliamentary business, who said that the Trident replacement was an "irresponsible" waste of money in the current economic climate.

"Trident is part and parcel of the Blair/Brown 'Age of Irresponsibility'," he said.

"At a time of economic downturn and substantial pressure on government spending, it is utterly irresponsible to waste anything up to £100 billion on a new generation of unnecessary and unwanted weapons of mass destruction – dumped in Scotland against the wishes of Scotland's Parliament and a majority of Scottish Westminster MPs."

The Scottish Government has already taken a firm stance on nuclear weapons, stating that, despite the fact that defence is a reserved area, it would use all its powers available to have them removed. It has been suggested that the Scottish Government could refuse planning permission for a dry dock to service the nuclear submarines, or use international law to prevent "war crimes" being committed in Scotland.

But Mr Hutton, who became Defence Secretary in the recent Cabinet reshuffle, said that the weapons are a key part of the UK's security.

He said that, although the SNP-led Holyrood Government is opposed to keeping nuclear weapons in Scotland, the fact that defence is not a devolved matter means he would not be concerned unless the Nationalists win their battle for independence.

Mr Hutton added: "I think we should base our policy on evidence, and our evidence in relation to the nuclear deterrent is pretty obvious.

"It has helped secure the security of the United Kingdom from a very dangerous nuclear threat for a very long time.

"With defence policy, you have to think 20, 30 or 40 years ahead, not two or three or four years."







The full article contains 410 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 17 October 2008 1:02 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Rufus T. Firefly,

17/10/2008 00:08:31
If the SNP have their way, our soldiers will be armed with water pistols and catapults.
2

,

17/10/2008 00:33:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

dude,

wishaw 17/10/2008 00:35:05
Another case of westminster picking fights with Scotland.
4

macdonaj,

Aberdeen Scotland 17/10/2008 00:42:35
To #1
I hope you really do not believe that any potential enemy
soldiers would be armed with nuclear weapons.As a ex Scottish soldier I can assure you that is not the case.

5

,

17/10/2008 00:55:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 17/10/2008 01:15:13

When Independence is attained we will be the first country to have Nuclear weapons on our soil and then reject them

If they are so important base them in Portsmouth or Plymouth as for an act of vandalisim what about taking the trident refit contract away from Rosyth

One question though who has the launch codes and authorisation to use these things can Britain do it independently or do we need American permission to launch these things
7

Celyn,

Glasgow 17/10/2008 01:20:36
If getting rid of weapons of mass destruction is "national vandalism", I think I need a new dictionary. Or perhaps John Hutton does.
8

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 01:28:29
With mad Putin in Russia and an ever more dominant China plus a lunatic bunch of wannabe nuclear Muslim states like Iran we need more nukes not less. I sleep better at night knowing we can use Trident at any time to smite our enemies.
9

catgut,

pomona 17/10/2008 01:30:38
when is gordy going to have an other interview to tell us that trident is another thing we cant afford as a small independent country.
after burning all that money trying to bail out bust banks does uk plc have the dosh to pay for the new subs?
10

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 01:32:43
#7 We can launch Trident entirely independently - as can France or Israel with their deterrents. But why would an obvious pacifist like you even care?
11

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 01:41:37
Daisy Cutters (fuel-air bombs) are handy but if they'd just dropped half a dozen decent nukes on the caves in Afghanistan then we'd have got Osama and all his buddies for sure. Who on earth would worry about a few centuries of radiation in that wasteland? Look at what the upside would have been.
12

Mandy Jones,

Plymouth 17/10/2008 01:53:50
I'm quite happy having nuclear weapons in Scotland... then if there's a problem, I'll just have to pass on the Aberdeen Angus for a while.
13

Guga II,

Rockall 17/10/2008 05:36:19
If the English government wants to waste nearly £100 billion on nuclear weapons, then it should only be done after Scotland is out from under the yoke of colonialism, and they can no longer bleed Scotland dry to pay for them.

As for where they keep their nuclear weapons, why do we have to have them dumped in Scotland? I would have thought it was much more appropriate to park all their nuclear submarines in places like Plymouth and the Thames. In the latter case, they could park them right outside the English parliament.

An independent Scotland would not need nuclear weapons as, among other things, we would not be getting dragged into illegal wars by a bunch of war criminals like Bliar and Broon.

I also presume that the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party intend to do some more overseas borrowing, getting us deeper and deeper into debt, to pay for Trident.
14

donald,

glasgow 17/10/2008 06:29:06
Time to republish the names of Cabinet Meenisters who used to "support" the CND and used to chant "Towries Aht on marches!"
15

donald,

glasgow 17/10/2008 06:29:12
Time to republish the names of Cabinet Meenisters who used to "support" the CND and used to chant "Towries Aht on marches!"
16

Rufus T. Firefly,

17/10/2008 07:10:10
18 and 19 can you re-post for those of us whose first language is English?
17

Guga II,

Rockall 17/10/2008 08:38:32
#20 Roofarse Deadfly/bring them on.

What's the matter, can't recognise your own accent?
18

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 17/10/2008 09:55:29
#9 "With mad Putin in Russia and an ever more dominant China plus a lunatic bunch of wannabe nuclear Muslim states like Iran we need more nukes not less. I sleep better at night knowing we can use Trident at any time to smite our enemies."

Russia would laugh off a nuclear attack from the UK. This is a country that willingly sacrificed over 30 million of its people in WW2. The UK's entire nuclear arsenal fired at Russia wouldn't manage a fraction of that.

Our "deterrent" is utterly worthless and protects us neither from aggressive states (who'd bother invading Scotland anyway?) nor terrorists (who have no state). It's nothing but pure vanity from Westminster, who like to play at being big boys on the world stage.
19

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 17/10/2008 09:57:31
#15 "Daisy Cutters (fuel-air bombs) are handy but if they'd just dropped half a dozen decent nukes on the caves in Afghanistan then we'd have got Osama and all his buddies for sure. Who on earth would worry about a few centuries of radiation in that wasteland? Look at what the upside would have been."

Good point. If you kill one man, I'm pretty certain the entire concept of fundamentalist Islam would die too. Pretty certain.
20

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 10:31:02
#23 "Good point. If you kill one man, I'm pretty certain the entire concept of fundamentalist Islam would die too. Pretty certain."

It would have been a good start and shown we mean business. Dropping a tactical nuclear bunker busting bomb on Iran's nuclear facilities would nicely re-enforce the point.
21

Lang Spoon,

Leith 17/10/2008 10:45:27
Remove Trident from Scottish waters full stop, and remember to take the rusting ex-subs from Rosyth as well; yes, it will cause financial pain, but this will be balanced against the uproar from the good citizens of Portsmouth/Plymouth. Yes, they will get the jobs, but the radiation threat as well; the only reason Faslane exists as a base is because of its distance from the home counties.
And, just to make sure I get a good kicking, will HMG come clean about the new carriers; they are not needed, are too expensive, and a fistful of new hospitals or schools would be a much better use of cash.
22

james 1st,

hamilton nz 17/10/2008 10:58:33
i support the snp and would like to see scotland independent
i have no with england problem keeping its nuclear weapons however as that is their right
23

Mallory,

Edinburgh 17/10/2008 11:01:17
Yes Rufus (#1) but it will be SCOTTISH WATER
24

scottish person,

paisley 17/10/2008 11:07:52
John Hutton has no right to tell the Scots what is good for them. If he thinks that nuclear weapons are ok, move them to the Thames and let that shower worry about being attacked.
Craig Brown you should have stuck to football management, at least we could turn you off when you started talking sh*t
25

The west awake,

Argyll 17/10/2008 11:10:14
Unlike most of you, I regularly get the "thrill" of seeing Brit U-boats sail up the Gare Loch and Loch Long, each armed to the teeth with enough destructive power to wipe out a fair portion of humanity.
If Labour are sure this is for the good of the people of Scotland, I suggest they make this clear during the Glenrothes campaign. I'm sure the SNP will do so for them if they forget!
Robin Cook had it SO wrong, he thought he could be in a Labour Party with an "ethical foreign policy". Trident is Labour's foreign policy. Their ethics are simple, might is right.
Horrible people, horrible government.
26

Fairfax,

17/10/2008 11:15:18
famous 15 (6): "Ireland ,Norway and Denmark inscribed within the arc are surviving quite well and I do not hear them shouting for their former colonial bosses to take them back."

Ireland and Norway are relatively recent former colonies, but Denmark was the "colonial boss" of Norway, Iceland, the Faeroes and Greenland. If you're going to praise a nation, knowing some of its history is useful.
27

Mikey,

17/10/2008 11:19:04
Just a quick question for all the pro nuke folks.

Can the UK fire it's nukes without US consent?
28

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 11:38:59
#31 That question has already been answered in this thread: Yes.
29

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 17/10/2008 11:40:01
Why can't the Scottish Government use anti terror laws against the english government. The english didn't think twice before using them on Iceland.
30

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 11:42:19
It's funny how all the minnow states in Europe rave against nukes and pay nothing for them but enjoy living under the umbrella of peace and security that they ultimately guarantee.
31

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 11:43:19
#33 Scotland is currently just a district of the UK. That is why.
32

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 17/10/2008 11:58:24
#35 don't talk mince that's just something the unionists say when they want to insult the Scots. scotland is a proud nation recognised worldwide for it's inventedness and cultural contributions to the whole world. That is a totally shallow comment dude...
33

The west awake,

Garelochhead 17/10/2008 12:24:16
~34 "It's funny how all the minnow states in Europe rave against nukes and pay nothing for them but enjoy living under the umbrella of peace and security that they ultimately guarantee"

- But that's the point. It is actually inevitable there will be no ultimate guarantee.
While it was only possible for a few powerful, advanced nations to have nukes, they could "ensure peace" by the threat of being able to utterly destroy an entire country unless they behaved themselves (see for example Musharraf of Pakistans assertion that the Americans threatened to "blow Pakistan back to the stone age" if they didn't co-operate with them over the Taliban).
The Romans incidentally did pretty much the same 2000 years ago under the "Roman Peace" - Pax Romana. Sounds good - unless of course you weren't keen on Roman rule.
Even this bully-boy "peace" could only last as long as Western hegemony on nuclear technology prevailed. It doesn't now and nuke weapons are becoming easier and easier to posess.
If everyone has them, then they are not a deterrent.
The civilised way to stop all the madness is the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, but since the bully-boy nations prefer the Pax Romana approach, they have consistently undermined this process (UK's recent Trident decision is a good example).
Indeed it could be argued that ignoring the NNPT is a sure fire way of ensuring the world will one day be blown up.
34

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 17/10/2008 12:24:47
At one point Labour as a principled political party disagreed with nuclear weapons and an unusable nuclear deterrent. Later they changed their minds and decided it was great, however the SNP are against it as are the Scottish people.

Labour, Lib Dems, Tories all the UK parties like Trident. SNP, SSP, Greens all the Scottish parties don't. This Britgov bullying won't win because it is only Labour's own political gutlessness that has led them to embrace Trident and the imperial philosophy which believes in it's necessity.
35

Number 6,

Germany 17/10/2008 12:47:13
Hutton,
yet another pig ignorant , arrogant Liebour failure daring to lecture the Scottish people about nuclear weapons. If this moron and all the other slack-jawed unionistas crowing on this thread bothered to look at the SNP's proposed defence policy, they would see it does not propose wiping other nations off the face of the earth. Nukes are hugely unpopular amongst the Scottish people, but then again, when have the unionistas ever cared what the Scottish people aspire to?

Let these disgusting weapons be based in Englandshire if they are so vital for their defence. The Scottish people do not want or need them, and that's all that matters. Yet another stick the First minister can use to beat the ever weakening unionista cause.

Keep the arrogance and insulting treatment coming . It onlt hastens the day we can get shot of Westmihnster and the garbage that pollute it.
36

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 17:06:40
#39 Keep taking the tablets. We need our nuclear deterrent and we must keep it. Any tin pot nation threatening us needs to know that we can and will annihilate them.
37

Ken W,

Fife 17/10/2008 17:12:17
"Just a quick question for all the pro nuke folks.

Can the UK fire it's nukes without US consent?"

The real answer is NO. The US controls the guidance system. The bombs cannot be fired without US knowledge and consent. The so-called 'Independence' of these weapons is merely a cover to allow the UK to subsidise the US Nuclear Industry.

"In 1962 the then US defence secretary, Robert McNamara, said that the British nuclear bomber force did not operate independently. Writing in 1980, Air Vice-Marshal Stewart Menaul said it definitely could not be used without US authorisation. Today former naval officers say it would be extremely difficult. The many computer software programs, the fuse, the trigger, the guidance system as well as the missiles are all made in America."

http://www.newstatesman.com/200603270008

38

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 17:15:16
#41 Sorry you are just plain wrong there. But I won't bother arguing.
39

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 17/10/2008 17:20:10
If these weapons have made us so safe, then why is HMG so desperate to keep bringing anti-terrorist legislation all the time? If we were that safe it wouldn't be needed.
40

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 17:30:56
What are you going to do to a bolshy new Russia on the rise again? Blow a bagpipe at them and lift your kilt?
41

we the people,

17/10/2008 17:43:37
john hutton is a hard right wing scumbag.
weapons of mass distruction should be held by no country. they do not guarantee peace, quite the contrary, they greatly increase the chances of mass murder and nuclear war. they divert astonoshingly large human and financial resources away from fighting climate change and providing social services and into the military industrial complex. we have no need or desire for them in scotland. they must be unilaterally decommissioned forthwith. i respect the snp's stand on the matter, one of the reasons they will get my vote.
42

we the people,

17/10/2008 17:44:44
oh, ken's right. it is inconceivable the u.k could fire nukes without american say so. we have been taking our foreign policy orders from them for years.
43

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 17:53:23
#45 "we have no need or desire for them in scotland". Speak for yourself; I am Scottish too and I want a lot more of them.

Ps. Climate change is a myth invented by government to raise more taxes off suckers.
44

Ken W,

17/10/2008 17:54:24
It's life but not as we know it.

#41 Sorry you are just plain wrong there. But I won't bother arguing.

- Perhaps because you can't.
Air Vice-Marshal Stewart Menaul sits on the Consultative Council of the Foreign Affairs Research Institute.
And you are?

45

we the people,

17/10/2008 18:00:02
47 you are through the looking glass pal. climate change a myth! More nuclear weapons!
you're knee deep in ideology time to haul yourself out
46

danbob,

17/10/2008 18:21:33
If Scotland does not want Faslane and the other militry bases then they will have to go. It is inconcievable that they could be based there if Scotland want's rid. I hope they do because it will just prevent english defence contracts coming north. More work for Plymouth, every cloud has a silver lining.
47

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/10/2008 18:36:59
#50

English defence contracts??

48

danbob,

17/10/2008 18:46:10
51# You don't expect english taxpayers are going to allow Scotland to benefit from contracts for defence spending on Ships, weapons, and systems for the english navy, air force and army do you? I think on the back of the expense of moving trident to Plymouth they would have plenty to say. I for one would lobby my MP if they did send any contract north.
49

Ken W,

Fife 17/10/2008 18:54:32
It's life but not as we know it

"With mad Putin in Russia and an ever more dominant China plus a lunatic bunch of wannabe nuclear Muslim states like Iran we need more nukes not less. I sleep better at night knowing we can use Trident at any time to smite our enemies."

- " Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

50

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/10/2008 18:54:48
#52

When did England get a navy, air force or army??

I must be reading the wrong rags!

51

Ian Hendry,

Boston USA 17/10/2008 19:05:25
I'm sure John Hutton could sleep just as soundly with Trident safely tucked away up the Thames somewhere....
52

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 19:53:25
What a forum full of good-for-nothing roll-over pacifists. All masquerading as drunken Glaswegians.
53

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/10/2008 19:58:13
From the Guardian today,

Speaking to business leaders in Nottingham, Brown condemned the proposal to pump less oil in unusually strong terms.

"I think it is absolutely scandalous that Opec is thinking of meeting in the next few days to cut oil production so they can push up the price of oil again and we will certainly try and prevent this happening," he said.

What about nuking them Comrade??
It's times like this I'm so glad we've Trident!!
54

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 17/10/2008 20:05:58
#57 It's too late now. We should have invaded and fully occupied the middle east decades ago. But our PC liberals would never allow it, so now our old people die unable to afford to heat their homes.
55

Ken W,

Fife 17/10/2008 20:18:20
"It's too late now. We should have invaded and fully occupied the middle east decades ago. But our PC liberals would never allow it, so now our old people die unable to afford to heat their homes"

So its true: you really are a space cadet with your head in the Oort clouds. umm... We DID invade the middle eat decades ago. btw heard of Google?- try using it.


56

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/10/2008 20:22:29
#58

Of course Comrade Broon could always cut fuel duty.

Maybe not seeing as he's bankrupted the country!

The joys of being in the Union.
57

Vaward,

Perth 18/10/2008 04:14:30
#22 "It's nothing but pure vanity from Westminster, who like to play at being big boys on the world stage."

Britain spends 2.2% of GDP on defence, that's hardly pretentious. Indeed, if anything it's NOT enough! As for the Russians laughing off a 100mt bomb exploding over their largest cities? Hmm.

 

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