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Trams 'cost traders thousands'



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Published Date: 04 February 2008
TRADERS on Leith Walk today claimed they are losing tens of thousands of pounds because of tram roadworks.
A new survey by the Federation of Small Businesses has revealed two-thirds of businesses on Leith Walk have seen a "significant decrease" in the number of customers since work started in August last year.

It also says that 56.9 per cent of businesses surveyed have seen their turnover drop significantly.

One businessman claims his two restaurants on Leith Walk are losing £10,000 a week.

A range of support schemes are available to help traders through the disruption, including up to £4000 compensation for the worst-hit from tram firm Tie.

But the FSB survey claims the average loss per business since the work started is now £26,333.

Tie bosses today defended the compensation scheme, saying only five businesses had been in touch to complain.

Graham Russell, chairman of the FSB Edinburgh branch, said the survey was proof the business support set-up is not working.

He said: "This survey has shown there is clear evidence of extreme hardship and the current compensation scheme is not designed to cope with this.

"I think we need to go back and take a serious look at what support is available for businesses, but we need to move fast as these people are hurting now and they still need to get through the next phases of the project as well.

"Remember this is just Leith Walk and the work has still to properly extend into other parts of the city."

Tony Crolla, owner of Vittoria's and La Favorita restaurants on the east side of Leith Walk, said his businesses were losing around £10,000 a week.

He said: "It has been a bit of a nightmare and the street has become a bit of a no-go area.

"We are taking a hit but because we are a well established business, we can just about manage. If I was a new-start then I think it would be particularly difficult.

"I just hope all the benefits we are being promised from the trams make up for these losses."

Tie executive chairman Willie Gallagher said: "We have invested a significant amount of time and money to ensure that we communicate with all involved well before any work starts and have regular face-to-face contact throughout the work.

"Tie has worked hard with the City of Edinburgh Council and the Chamber of Commerce to put in place a small business support scheme, which we administer.

"However, the best outcome for all will be for the work to be completed as quickly as possible so that the long-term benefits can be realised."

All businesses affected by the tram roadworks are eligible for an average 20 per cent reduction in their business rates.

Councillor Phil Wheeler, the city's transport leader, said: "We anticipated tram works would cause a certain amount of disruption, which is why we worked with business representatives to establish a support scheme.

"However, I truly believe that this short-term pain will bring sustained long-term benefit."

The FSB survey sampled 58 businesses on Leith Walk over the past month.

The full article contains 533 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

mrmoneypenny,

04/02/2008 11:50:37
The only people that will make money from this scheme, is Consultants and contractors. Though to be fair to TIE the business'sss on Leith Walk on average are hover bag shops, tat, and Corner shops, who would of thought hover bags were a real money spinner..
2

Pond Hall,

04/02/2008 12:09:47
Tie executive chairman Willie Gallagher states "However, the best outcome for all will be for the work to be completed as quickly as possible so that the long-term benefits can be realised."

Don't these traders realise the benefits that the TRAM Network will bring to them, millions will be using the network.
Take a look at the TIE website to read the FACTS....to quote
"A high-quality, modern and efficient tram network is being created for Edinburgh and is scheduled to be running on the Capital’s streets by 2011.

"This integrated transport system will offer a reliable and frequent transport choice to Edinburgh’s growing population and business community, boosting the city’s standing as an international destination for tourism and business.

Edinburgh’s tram network will help to reduce car journeys and ease congestion, providing environmental benefits through improved air quality."

http://www.tramsforedinburgh.com/

so what are you all moaning about, its going to be a network benefiting the whole city!

Short Term Pain for Long Term Gain

Can't wait
3

Randan,

04/02/2008 12:24:22
#2 I assume this is tongue-in-cheek?
4

mrmoneypenny,

04/02/2008 12:27:57
#2 Some ' facts' as you put it.

http://www.edinburghsucks.com/2008/01/12/chamber-of-commerce-blew-it-for-their-members/
5

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

04/02/2008 12:28:39
He's LOSING the equivalent of just over half a million a year ?

I assume the word losing implies that this is not turnover , it's profit he's talking about.

You are telling me a resturaunt on Leith Walk can AFFORD to lose half a million a year (never mind the fact that i seriously doubt it generates that much profit).

Something is far wrong with these figures.
6

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

04/02/2008 12:30:24
Anyway, I'm not going to read these almost daily updates about the tram misery. Lifes too short and theres another four years to go.

If you get yourself in a state every day about this for four years you will be demented by the end of it.
7

A Leither,

04/02/2008 12:34:39
#1 - I want to know where I can get a 'hover bag'; if they can indeed defy gravity, they'd really help with the weight of my shopping.

Do they contain an anti-gravity generation device, or is it a helicopter-style 'bladed' hover or a 'cushion of air' hovercraft hover ? Inquiring minds would like to know ;-)
8

Embra boy,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 12:40:31
#5 No doubt he's talking turnover, not profit.

9

Goat Boy,

04/02/2008 12:42:02
"The creation of a tram network for Edinburgh will take the form of two main construction phases – utilities diversion and network construction."

And this is just phase one.

Phase II (the sequel) has yet to come and sequels are usually a lot worse than the original.

10

Embra boy,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 12:42:44
#7 B&Q sell them, right beside their hover mowers.
11

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

04/02/2008 12:49:52
Your right about hover bags. I wouldnt mind one of those either.

Hover bags might be the solution to the trams. Perhaps it CAN be stopped.
12

,

04/02/2008 12:56:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
13

Pond Hall,

04/02/2008 12:57:15
no 4 mrmoneypenny

these are direct quotes from the Trams for Edinburgh Website (TIE).

"A high-quality, modern and efficient tram network is being created for Edinburgh and is scheduled to be running on the Capital’s streets by 2011.

"This integrated transport system will offer a reliable and frequent transport choice to Edinburgh’s growing population and business community, boosting the city’s standing as an international destination for tourism and business.

Edinburgh’s tram network will help to reduce car journeys and ease congestion, providing environmental benefits through improved air quality."

check it out
14

Arrow,

edinburgh 04/02/2008 12:57:38
just how long is the flex on these electric trams?
15

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 12:59:22
#13 - If you believe the tripe on TIE's website, I have some bad news for you about Santa.....
16

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

04/02/2008 13:00:13
The tram is windy uppy. It works every day.
17

Pond Hall,

04/02/2008 13:01:17
n015..whats that about Santa
18

,

04/02/2008 13:12:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

Goat Boy,

04/02/2008 13:12:26
"Edinburgh’s tram network will help to reduce car journeys and ease congestion, providing environmental benefits through improved air quality."

Might be true for Leith Walk - but what about Easter Road, Bonnington Road, Broughton Road, Ferry Road, Morrison Street and all the other rat runs the tram is going to create when Leith Walk loses two lanes?

"Edinburgh’s tram network will help to increase car journeys and increase congestion, providing environmental dis-benefits through poorer air quality."

20

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 13:12:46
#17 Ask your mother. I don't want to spoil it for any children reading.
21

,

04/02/2008 13:15:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

zoot horn rollo,

westphalia 04/02/2008 13:19:18
Of course, the increasingly poor economic situation has nothing at all to do with their loss of turnover
23

Myke Wylson,

Edinbvrgh 04/02/2008 13:19:55
#20 It's OK. Ewan Aitken knows there no Santa.
24

eric,

Lothian 04/02/2008 13:22:48
Its NOT a network its a Line.That nobody wants,If only we had the ambition like Glasgow with its Subway etc,And Airport train link!
25

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

04/02/2008 13:24:14
and shops Eric, dont forget the damn plethora of shops !
26

Colin G,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 13:33:28
Re 6 yes you are right. All these problems which are being revealed now were forseeable - and they will go on for the full construction period.

It is a shame that the Evening News took such a cynical position though - campaigning for the tram line in the knowledge that they would flip to the current style of reporting problems once they started to occur.
27

fresian,

edinburgh 04/02/2008 13:37:21
on another public transport related story, which the EEN did not open for comment>>

2 girls indecently assaulted on a rush hour bus. sounds to me like a pretty good reason for not using the scum shuttle.
28

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

04/02/2008 13:38:33
Colin , the evening news is very solidly based in critisicing anything and everything done in the name of progress in Edinburgh.

Tells you a lot about the populace I guess , but I hope not.
29

Pond Hall,

04/02/2008 13:56:39
n024 Eric

have you not read the TFE(tie website)....its clearly a NETWORK that they are building..

"A high-quality, modern and efficient tram network is being created for Edinburgh and is scheduled to be running on the Capital’s streets by 2011.

30

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 04/02/2008 13:57:53
I don't put much credance on a Federation of Small Business survey. They are in the dark ages of what is and is not a small (growing) business. They think small so shall remain small.

Traders always jump on band wagon to blame something or someone else if their takings drop rather than thinking out the box as to the correct reasons. Time of year - just after Christmas - customers have choice where to shop - are their products right? time for change?

So please yes perhaps the trams are affecting in some way but not totally.
31

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 14:03:19
(3) I understand the FSB is for businesses employing up to 500 people.

32

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 14:03:39
Sorry my comment was for No. 30.
33

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 04/02/2008 14:12:11
Hello 32 - yes they are - but I still say they think small and hence any business will remain that - small. I find they tend to speak out before giving the matter thought and then the comments are made from England from people who have not set foot in Scotland nor have had any connection with any small business here. I believe they are more interested in the top of the scale than the bottom.

As a business person I was in the FSB and my business would not have grown if I had taken their advice. Think small and you will remain small.

I stand by what I said in 30
34

Big Bouncy Betty ,

04/02/2008 14:19:13
Unless any traders are in danger of going out of business because of the disruption then i see no problem.

If people want to moan about money being lost from there personal profit then it's a different story.

Also the figures quoted seem to me as utter nonsense. Losing 10k a week?

Cough Bull s#ite cough
35

,

04/02/2008 14:38:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
36

The Judge,

04/02/2008 14:43:56
Blimey two restaurants quiet in January shocker. I'm with you #34 10 grand my @rse.
37

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

04/02/2008 14:56:53
One thing about that chap, he likes his pies.
38

,

04/02/2008 15:07:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
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39

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

04/02/2008 15:27:49
and tatties and ravioli. all mashed up together.
40

James (1),

04/02/2008 15:33:14
#35 What does "thibk" mean? Is it an eastern european word?
Any how why do we care that traders lose thousands? This tram line will be costing all of us thousands for the rest of our days!

The Millennium Dome could be the name given to the first tram to run on this line. Promises so much, delivers so little and costs a fortune.
41

Max Born,

04/02/2008 15:44:35
Tony Crolla is loosing £10k a week?
Don,t be daft Tony,the Inland Revenue might be reading thease boards as well.
42

mrmoneypenny,

04/02/2008 15:48:55
#35 What is 'thibk'?

Can you not buy 'hover bags' in Leith? Or is it Dyson only down there in the slums?
43

scottish person,

paisley 04/02/2008 15:49:11
#30 I lost a business thanks to the muppets who ran renfrewshire council when they decided to pedestrianise Paisley. They also increased the cost of street parking and employed a further 5 traffic wardens. We had the right products we had the customer base, we also offered a service to the public and business. We were one of 40 businesses who had to close within a couple years after the mess. While they were closing the town they were opening Braehead shopping mall in Renfrew (next door) The council applauded themselves and the puppetmaster who ran ths exercise was given an MBE. Oh and dont trust the Chamber of Commerce. They were the snakes in the grass in Paisley.
44

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

04/02/2008 15:55:36
Muppets ran Renfrewshire ?

Why hasnt the Scotsman picked up on this ?
45

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 16:11:47
I am sure many people will agree with me - and in fact do what I do. I take note of all those marked business vans and vehicles that park in bus stops and bus lanes etc. This is my blacklist - I do not entertain any business who abuses bus stops - they obviously have no thought for the elderly, and disabled who require the bus to stop as close as possible to the kerb. One such business on my blacklist is a certain florists in Leith Walk - who regularly cause problems for the buses on North Bridge. The florist van is regularly parked near to a side entrance of the Balmoral Hotel - in an illegal position - I can't understand how they get off with it. So this is one of many reasons why the Leith Walk traders are losing business, and I am sure many other people think like me.
46

mrmoneypenny,

04/02/2008 16:19:22
#47 Your flawed logic as usual amazes me. So other business'sssss that you do use, you can be sure dont park on yellow / red lines or bus stops?


'i can't understand how they get off with it.' Simple, there is no one there to stop them.
47

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 16:33:42
"One businessman claims his two restaurants on Leith Walk are losing £10,000 a week"

£4000 isn't much compensation in the face of a loss like this - seems like a pretty poor deal.

The article also doesn't say whether the £4000 is a 'one-off' payment, a weekly payment, or whatever.

Also, the 20% commercial rates discount is only 'eligible', surely this should be applied automatically to all businesses in the effected areas?

I wonder what the losses will be when this catastrophic (and unwanted) system starts to damage businesses in Princes Street?

Personally, I hope that the tram system is cancelled and I can only hope to see the whole thing fall flat on it's face. Let's remember who pushed this nonsense through - the now defunct Labour Council, I won't be voting for them again and I suspect that they will not be back in control of Edinburgh for a very long time.

48

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 16:36:35
No. 49 - it was the SNP who authorised all the tram work - remember - they are the ones who stated in the run up to the elections that they wouldn't allow the tram project. Well they lied - I suggest you don't vote for the SNP in future.
49

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 04/02/2008 16:41:28
#40. I am sorry to hear about your business and Im sure you are an exception but the people through here are not in the situation you describe.

I do hope you are doing well for yourself now.
50

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

04/02/2008 16:42:05
*Please enter your comment*
51

,

04/02/2008 16:45:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
52

Liz,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 16:48:20
#49

"wonder what the losses will be when this catastrophic (and unwanted) system starts to damage businesses in Princes Street?"

And do not forget what on earth is going to happen when they shut Shandwick Place!? No one is going to be going anywhere by bus/car/taxi in the city centre.
53

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 16:49:03
#50 Gorgie_Tony,

No, you sre completely wrong on that, it was Labour, in conjunction with the Tory and Lib Dem parties.

If you think back, this was voted on in the Scottish Parliament (May 2007 if I remember correctly). The SNP do not have an overall majority, so this 'ganging up' by the other three meant the damned thing went through. It will fail or only be completed at huge cost to the tax payer, just wait and see.

54

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 16:53:02
#55 - Didn't the SNP promise they would scrap the trams in their election manifesto?
55

mrmoneypenny,

04/02/2008 16:54:01
#50 The old man is senile,

See the councils own website.

'The need for a tram network in Edinburgh is still the driving force behind the City of Edinburgh Council’s transport plans for the foreseeable future. Aside from the SNP, it has cross-party support in Council.'

http://tinyurl.com/232aga
56

rabmataz,

04/02/2008 16:54:44
i've just looked at the interactive map on the trams for edinburgh site. did you know that there are no attractions in granton. fancy that.
57

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 04/02/2008 16:55:31
my comment above refers to 45 and NOT 40!
58

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 16:56:45
Lets not forget the SNP are in charge of Scotland - so if anything goes wrong it is down to them!!
59

fresian,

edinburgh 04/02/2008 16:57:22
56, the snp attempted to scrap the trams, however, since they didn't hold the majority, all the no mark eco fascists outvoted them.


with regards to hoover bags, the nearest the average leither gets to cleaning their council house is when they snort coke which has beeen cut with vim.
60

mrmoneypenny,

04/02/2008 16:59:18
#60 I would call troll, but i genuinely believe you are for real, If what you are saying is true, what do Labour, Tories, greens and the Lib Dems do? Do we need them?

Also, i can see you in MegaBytes..
61

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 17:05:00
#56 Gorgie_Tony

Yes Tony, they did, but they didn't have enough SNP SMPs to put the thing through, if you recall at the time of the vote at Holyrood they were outnumbered by 1 vote (correcty me if I'm wrong someone).

Tony, the SNP are the single largest party in Holyrood, but unfortunately when all the other parties voted against them they lost the vote, hence they couldn't cancel the unwanted tram scheme as promised. Had they carried on, it is likely that another Scottish Parliamentary election would have to have been held almost on the heels of the first one.

However, and getting back to the article, this work is going to go on for a long time (4 years and who knows probably longer) it's effects on businesses in the Town centre are very likely to be devastating and I can see many businesses closing down as custom goes elsewhere (perhaps even to Glasgow, etc).
62

WKKB,

04/02/2008 17:19:51
There is an upside to this story you know. When one of the tram cars breaks down the rest will be stuck behind it so everyone can get off and go shopping until they fix the defunked one. YAY!!!

It's all a load of nonsense! By 2011 half the shops on the trams path will have to close due to lack of business. Maybe that's what the city planners are really up to?
63

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 17:29:45
#64 Scallywag.

True, but that is what is called Democracy. I also have the impression that many people also thought that the Lib Dems and even some Tory MSPs might vote against the Edinburgh tram scheme.

It also seemed not unlikely that MSPs representing areas other than Edinburgh might vote against the trams in order to prevent 'Edinburgh' getting a £500 million bung from the Exec. - money which might have gone to projects in other ares.

Bottom line is I am sure that this scheme/system will fail or only be completed at great cost certainly to the people of Edinburgh (Commercial rate and Council Tax payers alike).

It is also my feeling that the Tory/Lib Dem/Labour/Greens joined forces in order to give the SNP a roasting when it came to this vote which was not very Democratic or wise as time will tell.
64

wolfette,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 17:54:29
Nice, in the French Riviera has been installing a tram "network" for the last few years when I've been visiting. Several of the local businesses and quite a few shops have had to close permanently due to the effects of the road works on their business. Pavements have been restricted and dug up, disabled access became non-existent, parking a total mess.

I'm expecting even more chaos in Edinburgh, based on previous experience with our beloved Council's record of road works.
65

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

04/02/2008 17:58:27
but in thye long run it will be better.

i believe that. Things will be better when it is built.

No pain no gain and all that, businesses will recover or move back.

You arent seriously suggesting that ever city that has had metro or tram work goes into terminal decline !

Youre miserable you lot you really are.
66

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 18:04:17
#70 - Things will be better, for the few that live and work close enough to the line. However the history of tram systems is that they do not justify their enormous costs. Hence why every new scheme in England was scrapped.
67

,

04/02/2008 19:45:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
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68

mrsweekeef,

04/02/2008 19:49:33
#70 Don't forget that just one line only will screw the bus service on Leith Walk in particular - for good.
69

Pond Hall,

04/02/2008 19:59:06
no73 its not a line, its a network, as I've already quoted from the TFE/TIE Website

"A high-quality, modern and efficient tram network is being created for Edinburgh and is scheduled to be running on the Capital’s streets by 2011.

"This integrated transport system will offer a reliable and frequent transport choice to Edinburgh’s growing population and business community, boosting the city’s standing as an international destination for tourism and business"

Edinburgh’s tram network will help to reduce car journeys and ease congestion, providing environmental benefits through improved air quality."

Do You Think that TIES would tell us LIES, surely if they're Adverts/Website are misleading the Public, is this not breaching advertising laws if they are.
70

rs,

in ma house 04/02/2008 20:03:36
n073, its going to Screw up more than just the bus services on Leith Walk.

Its going to screw up every bus service on its Route.
If The Shops on Leith Walk are struggling, the shops at the West End will be even worse. with no buses passing for 4+ months.
71

is it me?,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 20:58:43
#72
So why did you go back for seconds ?
72

lavvyhead,

Edinburgh 04/02/2008 21:30:06
10k a week - pity he could have spent that money on getting rid of some of his chins
73

,

04/02/2008 21:51:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
74

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 04/02/2008 22:50:02
WIRES AND CABLES.HANGING.TRAM TRACKS NO THANKS
75

Myke Wylson,

Edinbvrgh 04/02/2008 22:58:57
#69 - you've gone and done it now. All the councillors and EDI punters will be packing their bags to get off to Nice and see just how it is supposed to get it done. Bloody hell more junkets. Couldn't you have said Nice in West Yorkshire something. You know what they're like!
76

Julian,

EDINBURGH 04/02/2008 23:55:37
Goat Boy,

Nice posting.

Losing 10k a week!! That's a lot of Spaghetti Bologneses. Around 1,250 a week or 179 a day.

Tony, you should get a job writing for the TIE website.
77

Julian,

EDINBURGH 05/02/2008 00:16:24
GraemeH # 70

"Hence why every new scheme in England was scrapped."

Not true. Nottingham's trams began running in 2004 and have been such a financial success that they received government and local council approval last year to build 2 more lines.

Sorry to have to break this news to all you doom mongers.
78

tattie bogle,

home 05/02/2008 10:39:25
for gorgie tony . look oot yur windae you will see more illegal parking
79

Jayess,

Edinburgh 05/02/2008 11:33:52
#82 Julian - Is the sad news you are breaking to us, that you may have found evidence of a successful subsidised tramline somewhere? Do tell us more!
80

The_Doctor,

In a hole 05/02/2008 12:01:16
Of course, we should all believe the CoEC and TIE blethers that all the years of disruption will be worth it in the end...

After all, at the end of this long and hugely expensive project, we will all have a magnificent, world class white elephant of which we can all be justifiably ashamed.
81

Julian,

EDINBURGH 05/02/2008 14:58:54
Jayess # 84

The sad news I'm breaking to you is that there is a successful tramline in Nottingham which will be extended to 3 lines shortly. So, for all you people (like Euan) that seem to know for a fact that Edinburgh trams will be a failure and will stop at 1 line, there is a chance you may be wrong. I know it's hard to accept.

Whether the trams in Nottigham make a profit, I don't know. But they are obviously in a fairly healthy financial state as their success was the basis on which the other 2 lines got their go ahead.
82

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 05/02/2008 16:43:06
#86 Julian

Do happen to know what the good people of Nottingham paid for their tram system? Also do you know if it was built by Spanish contractors (as ours seems to be) and run by a French company (again as ours looks like being).

Last but not least, while there is a chance of the Edinburgh system being a success, it seems that the probability is very low (I at least hope so).

Dump the trams.

83

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 05/02/2008 17:21:10
#88 & 89 Scallywag

I find it easier to go straight to the horses mouth rather than scrounge around in Goggle.

"Is there a probelm with Spanish and French companies being involved?"

In my humble view, quite definitely 'Yes' - you would have thought that some homegrown organisations would have been available to fullfill both these functions.

84

rs,

in ma house 05/02/2008 20:43:47
worth it not,

its bad enough with the Tram/Road Works on Princes Street/Queen Street.....bus getting held up and running 20/20mins late.
And when the west end is CLOSED at the end of the Month for the TRAM LINE, its clearly going to be a nightmare getting about Edinburgh on a Bus.
And we've still got the same again when they put down the Tram Lines.

Who would want to travel into Edinburgh?
85

Julian,

EDINBURGH 05/02/2008 22:17:49
Peter,

Don't know what they paid for line 1 but the good people of Nottingham are paying £141m towards lines 2 and 3 compared to £60m for Edinburgh. Not quite sure how this advances your argument but I do have 1 question: If the Nottignham trams have been such a success, carrying 9m passengers a year, how does that make the chances of Edinburgh trams being a success very small.

Oh, and a piece of advice. The phrase "scrap the trams" is a complete waste of webspace, ie. it will never happen.
86

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 10:29:18
#92 & #93 Thanks for getting back.

I wonder if the reason that no British companies/organisations are involved is because they were smart enough to predict that this scheme is potentailly a disaster waiting to happen and were not prepared to be involved.

By the way Julian, webspace is somewhat ethereal, so I repeat my hope (as do most of Edinburgh's residents)that the tram scheme goes down the plughole.

87

Sanny,

22/02/2008 17:35:10
I note a web-link on this site to Cycling Edinburgh! Cycling is great in many ways, but particularly the environment and health aspects. Well how may have cycled on roads they share with trams.
In my youth I cycled to school in Glasgow when we still had trams (40’s & 50’s). Mixing of trams and bikes is an accident waiting to happen. I lost count of the number of times my wheels were caught in tramlines often resulting in my being thrown off my bike. At that time traffic was a fraction of today’s and was slower no doubt that is how I survived until the day I could own a car and get off my bike.

In today’s congested roads and with cars in a hurry- Trams and Bikes don’t mix.

The ratepayers also need to remember if the project runs over budget the cost is to the ratepayers!

 

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