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Tramcar on track to return to city

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Published Date:
26 November 2007
ONE of the last remaining trams to run on the streets of Edinburgh could soon be on its way back to the Capital.
Tramcar 35 - the last example of the city's old tram fleet - has been on loan to the National Tramway Museum in Crich, Derbyshire, since the late 1980s.

Council officials recently recommended letting it stay there as a gift because it was felt it
would be too expensive to bring the vehicle back and house it in Edinburgh.

But a group of tram enthusiasts have approached the council claiming private backers are ready to put up the cash to return and restore it.

They would also fund the creation of an exhibition space for the vehicle, possibly along the route of the city's new trams.

Councillors have now agreed to postpone the handover of the tram until February 5 and asked all interested parties to come forward before then with a fully costed alternative proposal.

Councillor Ricky Henderson, Labour's transport spokesman, led calls for an investigation into the cost of bringing back the 35 and establishing a museum and said he was delighted to hear of the interest from the private sector.

He said: "This tram is the last of its type and we would ideally want to see it housed in a proper museum up here.

"Unfortunately we do not have anywhere like that, and we do not have the resources to bring the tram back or create a home for it.

"The council has agreed to postpone the handover however, as we have been approached by people who claim to have significant private sector support which could fund the return of the tram.

"The onus is now on them to come forward with detailed proposals.

"This is a piece of the city's history and I think it would be something the whole of the city would want to see brought back here, particularly now."

After the Edinburgh tramway was abandoned in 1956, all the trams except number 35 were reported to have been transported to Coatbridge and set ablaze.

It was claimed the councillors of the day, unlike their modern-day counterparts, had become fiercely "anti-tram" and wanted rid of the system as soon as possible.

Backers have been given until February 5 to come up with a firm proposal for returning Tramcar 35, after which it is expected the tram will be handed over to the National Tramway Museum.

However, officials said that part of the handover agreement would be a clause that gave the city first option on buying the tram if the museum ever decided to sell it.

No one involved in the plans could be contacted for comment.



The full article contains 454 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 November 2007 11:24 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Douglas,

Bathgate 26/11/2007 12:15:17

No chance the plans for the new trams could be transported along the M8 to Coatbridge for disposal?

2

Liam,

26/11/2007 12:25:30

# 1 - only if all the motorists causing daily chaos and congestion on Edinburgh's streets can be carted off right alongside them ..!

3

Concerned of Stockbridge,

26/11/2007 12:31:27

By all means let's bring this historical relic, a reminder of travel in a different age, bact to Edinburgh.

At the same time, perhaps we can have an explanation of how our "new" trams which will be just as inflexible as the old ones represent "World Class" transport for the future.....

4

Mike Hunt,

26/11/2007 12:31:59

How much publicity is there about the old tram system and STILL the Snooze gets the date wrong? 1956 was the last of the old trams, not 1965. Typing with gloves on.

5

Faustus,

26/11/2007 12:41:57

Well 'Concerned' (no. 3) - perhaps at the same time we can have an explanation as to how Uncle Alex's original alternative of "mair buses" represented a serious solution to getting Edinburgh moving again?

At least trams will take more people, faster and making fewer stops than the interminable Lothian buses which seem to stop at every lamp post.

Roll on the trams, and roll out the self-important car lobby.

6

Richard Mcl,

26/11/2007 12:51:33

let me get this right, we will give it away for free and then get first option to buy it back should the museum choose to sell it.. Sounds like another excellent decision by Edinburgh Council

7

Anti-taxi Anti-tram,

26/11/2007 12:55:34

Listen #2 and #5... your time is up.

If you seriously believe that all the congestion in Edinburgh is caused by cars then you are badly mistaken and ill-informed.

There are a number of factors including poor traffic light systems, inept planning, seriously bad decision making by the previous Council on traffic management with regards to road closures and pathetic cow chowing to liberal greenies who want to force us back into the 18th century where we all go to around on horse or foot...

The trams are not the answer. They never will be. Bring on the green buses running on hydrogen, bring on more out of town parking, bring on better shops in the City, bring on the axe on this hugely unpopular scheme.

8

Paul Voltaire,

26/11/2007 13:10:29

Why bring back a foosty old tram that won't work when we will have spanking new ones in the near future?

9

Antagonist the 3rd,

26/11/2007 13:28:48

Cars don't cause congestion.

Wahahahahaha.

In a sense you are right though , the ridiculous number of buses traversing princes street (which are all following the same route) add to the congestion. Once a single tram is in place for Princes Street, Buses should terminate at the east or west end.

10

Irn-Bruce,

26/11/2007 14:30:14

#7 - Total codswallop!

There will never be enough road space for cars. This has been proved time and time again, all over the world. Traffic (mainly cars) will always fill the roads made available to it.

Glasgow's average traffic speed is only 4 miles an hour faster than Edinburgh's, yet it has a motorway (a road, specifically designed to let traffic flow freely) through the middle of it!

Hydrogen as a transport fuel is still no more than at the "technology demonstrator" level. Large scale production, safe storage, and use of hydrogen as a transport fuel are all decades away!

Even then, buses (regardless of how they are powered) take up road space, which will simply incur the wrath of people like you!

Edinburgh initial "tram" lines are mostly a light rail lines. West of Haymarket (where Edinburgh is most congested), they will run on their own tracks and won't hinder cars at all!

11

Leila,

26/11/2007 14:31:08

#9: what a clever suggestion! And where are all the buses going to wait or turn round?

12

Antagonist the 3rd,

26/11/2007 14:43:52

on the other roads leila ? how do they get back to their depots at present ?

13

Incandescent,

the real one 26/11/2007 16:36:25

#10 Irn-Bruce - your post looks very, very familiar...perhaps because you have pasted it without modification at least four times so far?

14

Concerned of Stockbridge,

26/11/2007 16:53:00

#10

"Even then, buses (regardless of how they are powered) take up road space"

What? - do you mean that trams don't! Do they levitate magically above other traffic? At least buses don't require special infrastructure (e.g. rails) that can only be installed following the generation of tens of thousands of tons of CO2 and which once installed become a clear hazard to 2 wheeled road users.

The trams may well take a whopping 2-5% of car journeys off the road (*gasp*) but the carbon deficit generated by the initial building work means that it'll be many decades (if not a century) before they have any positive effect....

"Edinburgh initial "tram" lines are mostly a light rail lines. West of Haymarket (where Edinburgh is most congested), they will run on their own tracks and won't hinder cars at all!"

Sort of like the shoogly guided busway - there's plenty of derelict land that the council could build bus/taxi only private roads on at a fraction of the tram cost, generating virtually no initial environmental overdraft.

Such an innovative solution would never have been a possibility as our cooncilors couldn't have scored a set of freebie holidays (oops I meant fact finding missions) to go and have a look at something that hadn't actually been tried elsewhere - but then that's why it would have been innovative.

15

Steve in Leith,

Stick it on Chambers Street 26/11/2007 21:09:32

Surely there could be found space for it in the National Museum of Scotland?

They have some big engines, and other large displays and it seems like the perfect place to put it to me.

The alternative is to find a room/hall/space and have to pay for the upkeep and staffing just for a dedicated "tram museum" with one exhibit...

16

Abel Magwitch,

26/11/2007 21:16:55

A small point of historical information. The above article says that Edinburgh scrapped its tram system in 1965. In fact the year was 1956. Ironically, just a few weeks after Edinburgh's last tram route was closed, the Suez crisis gave us an early taste of middle-eastern insecurity and there was talk of petrol rationing.

17

Julian,

26/11/2007 22:31:54

#14 Concerned of Stockbridge,

"the carbon deficit generated by the initial building work means that it'll be many decades (if not a century) before they have any positive effect...."

And the figures you have used to arrive at this conlusion are?

One thing we do know is that 2-5% of car journeys means 2 to 5,000 less per day. Add that to the 3,000 less bus journeys per day and that's a lot of pollution removed from the streets of Edinburgh, not to mention the reduction in the carbon footprint.

18

Petroll head,

26/11/2007 23:34:30

#17 Jules
The difference between pollution and carbon footprint being what exactly.

And the figures you have used to arrive at this conclusion are also lacking in backup.

Too many people willing to transport their kids by whatever means, trams or otherwise, rather than carrying.

You don't do subtlety do you.

19

COLINTON.MAINS,

canada 27/11/2007 01:29:49

ricky.i.want.my.tram.back.now.its.time

20

Mary Tocracy,

27/11/2007 01:42:48

Bring back Zeppelins.

21

Julian,

27/11/2007 02:20:24

Petroll head # 17

Thanks for the nice easy starter.

By pollution, I mean the toxic fumes (carbon based and other) being spewed out on a daily basis onto the streets of our great city. Carbon footprint refers to any carbon based output including things like airplane emmissions of carbon dioxide which don't pollute the air we breathe but add to the greenhouse effect.

22

Julian,

27/11/2007 02:33:53

Pettrol Head # 17,

As for your second question, that's a harder one. My figures were estimates based on the city in whcih we live but here goes:-

Number of cars in Edinburgh is roughly 150,000 (1 car for every 3 people)
Number of commuters into Edinburgh is roughly 50,000 (I've seen that figure somewhere)

That equals around 125,000 car journeys per day if we add together the commuters and half the cars.

As for the trams.
1 tram carries the equivalent of 3 buses.
15 trams per hour
Say 300 trams per day.
Equals 900 less bus journeys.

OK, I was a bit out on that one.

Still, that's a lot less pollution on our streets. Kind of useful when 10 of our busiest ones were recently declared to have unsafe levels of pollution.

23

Pete39,

Tassy 27/11/2007 05:47:39

I lived with trams when I was a kid. Cracking beasties, you could really flatten a penny if you put it into a tramline. Also fall off your bike if it got caught in the lines. What you have now is a light rail system which will not stop at the suburbs of Edinburgh, it should carry on right into the highlands, with a bit of luck. Fifty years ago there were very few private cars on the road and no doubt twenty five years from now it will be the same situation. No great loss if you have a good tram service, honest.

24

Concerned of Stockbridge,

27/11/2007 09:00:36

#22 - "1 tram carries the equivalent of 3 buses." - yes, if you wedge people in like sardines - if that's a "World Class" mode of travel (as in Calcutta/Jakarta presumably) then you'd better recalculate your figures based on a 0% take-up by car drivers......

If pollution is the only item on the tree hugging agenda, then why not just ban all vehicles that spew out particulates and NO2 above a permissible threshold - no we can't do that as all the buses would disappear and we'd be left with just clean private vehicles.

We didn't have congestion until the Toon Cooncil started playing Transport Tycoon with traffic flows just so that they could create a sea of stationary buses to obscure the vista of Princes street. If they want to muck about with O' level theoretical social engineering then let them do it on a computer simulation, not playing with real streets and money.....

25

Julian,

27/11/2007 15:40:19

#24

Thanks for the reply.

Unless I'm mistaken, a tram of the sort we are getting will take 250 people whereas a bus will take 80. That's 3 to 1 on a like for like basis. If you want to take a lesser figure for the tram then you have to do the same for the bus (a la not crammed in like sardines).

And I never said pollution was the only adavantage of trams. But I agree with you on the buses. Ideally they should all be replace with alternatives (more trams, hybrids, gas powered or trolley buses)

And I'm sorry to hear that you are another one of the ostriches who believes that a doubling of car ownership and a 20% increase in the population in the last 20 years has nothing to do with congestion; just the stupid Council's transport policy.


 

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